robdylan

Bulls prevail in Loftus humdinger


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Bulls, Original Content, Sharks, Super Rugby on 28 Feb 2015 at 18:59
Tagged with : , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

A last-second try from Jan Serfontein has cruelly denied the Sharks even a losing bonus point in a Loftus clash that went right down to the wire. The Bulls emerged with all the spoils in a 43-35 victory.

The Sharks, trailing by a single point as the final whistle blew, launched a last desperate counter attack, looking to claw themselves back from the brink from the umpteenth time in the match. With the Bulls’ desperation and better discipline, not to mention some shocking refereeing calls, conspiring to keep the sharks behind on the scoreboard, it fell, cruelly, to Pat Lambie, 25-point hero, to knock a pass on with his head and into the arms of Bok teammate Serfontein, who went over for the hosts’s bonus point try.

After an initial period where the Sharks looked stronger, but suffered at the hands of referee Jaco van Heerden, the Bulls turned their 9-6 lead into a 16-6 advantage; Jesse Kriel opened up Andre Esterhuizen on the Sharks 10m line, darting left to link up with Francois Hougaard for the opening try. The pass to the scrumhalf-turned-wing was marginally forward, but the try stood and the Sharks were reeling.

Lambie and Handre Pollard traded further penalties before the visitors spring into action, with Renaldo Bothma’s superb offload to SP Marais allowing the fullback to send Odwa Ndungane away. The veteran winger sent Ryan Kankowski posts-wards, with Lambie’s conversion leveling the sores at 16-all. The Bulls, though, fought back strongly to score through Deon Stegmann before half time and went into the shed holding a 23-16 lead.

Their third try came not long afterward, despite Lambie’s early second-half penalty. Pierre Spies found a yawning hole in the Sharks defence after patient build-up play from his side in the 22 and he strolled through. At 19-30 behind, the writing was on the wall, yet it was bizarrely the Sharks who struck back from the very next kick-off. As the Bulls allowed themselves to relax just slightly, Cobus Reinach charged down a Rudy Paige clearance and sprinted through to score. With the lead now just four, the Bulls were the ones who started to panic and the Sharks plugged away, controlling territory and the gainline to eventually take the lead via two further penalties.

That 35-33 advantage, though, came with 7 minutes too many left on the clock. A poor Reinach clearance from the restart allowed the Bulls to set a lineut maul, from which the penalty came. At 36-35, they knew how to close out the game, with Serfontein’s late score adding the gravy, while robbing the Sharks of a bonus point, the very least they deserved from this encounter.

Bulls 43: Tries Hougaard, Stegmann, Spies, Serfontein. Conversions Pollard (3), Schoeman. Penalties Pollard (4), Schoeman.
Sharks 35: Tries Kankowski, Reinach. Conversions Lambie (2). Penalties Lambie (7)



644 Comments

  • Never again do i want sa to complain about bad refs in internatinal games when this display by ref & tmo happens in our derby!!

  • Comment 1, posted at 28.02.15 19:00:43 by Dunx Reply
    DunxSuper Rugby player
     
  • What the hell did I just watch? The game of rugby lost out today.

  • Comment 2, posted at 28.02.15 19:03:39 by The Great Couch Shark Reply
    Author
    The Great Couch SharkSuper Rugby player
     
  • Doos ref!

  • Comment 3, posted at 28.02.15 19:05:01 by Honey Badger Reply

    Honey BadgerCurrie Cup player
     
  • I hope this fool is never allowed to ref again.

  • Comment 4, posted at 28.02.15 19:05:29 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • Bulls didn’t have better discipline, they got away with murder while we – Marcel especially – were constantly wrongfully blown up

  • Comment 5, posted at 28.02.15 19:07:20 by Die Kriek Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • Not surprised to see he”s schooled at waterkloof and studied at tukkies. He joined the blue bulls referees society in 2003

  • Comment 6, posted at 28.02.15 19:07:41 by RuckingFun Reply

    RuckingFunTeam captain
     
  • Reinach was directly responsible for 3 of their tries and they wouldn’t have scored the last one if he hadn’t put the sharks in that position by playing kak all match. And add to that he gives the bulls a line out 5m outside our 22 less than 30 seconds after we took the lead. Honestly he must go back to club rugby if he isn’t going to pull his head out his arse. Ungerer needs to be brought into this team asap

  • Comment 7, posted at 28.02.15 19:11:56 by woody Reply
    Author
    woodyUnder 21 player
     
  • Some quality TMO decisions there.

  • Comment 8, posted at 28.02.15 19:14:14 by SeanyJMc Reply

    SeanyJMcVodacom Cup player
     
  • that sucked. I feel for the boys.

    I’m outta here guys.

  • Comment 9, posted at 28.02.15 19:15:48 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • We were had by the tmo point

  • Comment 10, posted at 28.02.15 19:15:54 by duncanbetteridge Reply

    duncanbetteridgeUnder 21 player
     
  • Disappointing to see Matfield taking out Bismarck beyond the ruck to stop him contesting for the ball! :|

  • Comment 11, posted at 28.02.15 19:20:27 by SeanyJMc Reply

    SeanyJMcVodacom Cup player
     
  • On the bright side, we have won one match and we are still 6th and in the playoffs. I think it’s fair to say that the competition will be much closer this year. Nevertheless, we will still need to win many more matches if we want to finish in a good position!

    Some tough games coming up. Go Sharks!

  • Comment 12, posted at 28.02.15 19:23:03 by SeanyJMc Reply

    SeanyJMcVodacom Cup player
     
  • The officials were utterly pathetic and our gameplan sucks. We have no respect for the ball and turned it almost instantaneously.
    The Bulls deserved this win on that aspect alone.
    Our coaching team should forfeit their match fees on account of this strategy.

  • Comment 13, posted at 28.02.15 19:27:10 by KILLER SHARK Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    KILLER SHARKTeam captain
     
  • Frans and JPP cannot join this team soon enough.

  • Comment 14, posted at 28.02.15 19:31:50 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • We had no answer to their mauls and our own mauls were ineffective. Our lineouts were their lineouts. Reinach’s decision-making was rubbish. Besides Lambie, Odwa was our best back.

    We have a midfield problem

  • Comment 15, posted at 28.02.15 19:36:11 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 15) : Big midfield problem yes. Problem is they are invisible. And it’s not their fault.

  • Comment 16, posted at 28.02.15 19:43:40 by Ben Reply
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  • Sorry boys but Sharks lost this one and not the ref.We look so dangerous when we start running and offloading but the game plan is clear to hoof anything and everything.Bismarck still learning and he should have just thrown his hands in the air to the touch judge!!!

  • Comment 17, posted at 28.02.15 19:45:00 by tigershark Reply

    tigersharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • This is one of those deeper lessons we learned today.You cannot control whats happening on the outside, only whats happening on the inside.We should have a deep look at our approach this week.

  • Comment 18, posted at 28.02.15 19:48:37 by tigershark Reply

    tigersharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • I hate pointing fingers at a ref after a Sharks loss so I never do it. In a completely unrelated matter my toes are aligning in the general direction of a certain Pretoria resident. Downright eerie that.

    Pretty damn proud that our boys stayed in a game that threatened to run away from them all evening. Pity about losing out on a losing point but I’m happy that they kept fighting to the death.

  • Comment 19, posted at 28.02.15 19:49:19 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @tigershark (Comment 17) : Sorry mate, you can be the best rugby team in the world, if the ref is against you, there is nothing you can do. You could play literally perfect rugby and he would just make up excuses.

    However nothing will happen to the ref so let’s just forget and move on.

  • Comment 20, posted at 28.02.15 19:51:59 by Seth101 Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    NostrasethTeam captain
     
  • Ref made bad decisions both ways. This thread is like sour grapes on steroids.

  • Comment 21, posted at 28.02.15 19:56:03 by Dewald Nel Reply

    Dewald NelUnder 21 player
     
  • @Dewald Nel (Comment 21) : How man tries were wrongly give to the bulls, two. How many to the sharks, none. Yes very fair.

  • Comment 22, posted at 28.02.15 19:59:08 by Seth101 Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    NostrasethTeam captain
     
  • Very poor officiating. Rugby the loser on the night.

  • Comment 23, posted at 28.02.15 20:02:48 by stevovo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    stevovoSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Dewald Nel (Comment 21) : Is your name Jaco van Heerden or Dewald Nel? :twisted:

  • Comment 24, posted at 28.02.15 20:06:09 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • Are you allowed to use players not on the official team sheet? I am pretty sure Greeff was never on the Bulls team list.

  • Comment 25, posted at 28.02.15 20:06:18 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 25) : Love Schoeman’s hairstyle. Only at Loftus pappa!

  • Comment 26, posted at 28.02.15 20:11:02 by Ben Reply
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  • New coaching regime – same old story. Attacking play still very laboured and usually comes to nought. No patience on attack. Gold and co have their work cut out to improve here.

  • Comment 27, posted at 28.02.15 20:12:27 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Dewald Nel (Comment 21) : Definitely bad decisions against both teams. Bissie was very lucky not to be yellowed I thought.

    Putting emotion about a loss side, there are still serious problems with both refereeing and the citation process in general. Wish someone with the necessary authority would start addressing this because it takes away so much from the game.

  • Comment 28, posted at 28.02.15 20:13:00 by vanmartin Reply
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  • I still don’t want to talk about it! :sad:

  • Comment 29, posted at 28.02.15 21:03:42 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Call me what you like but I have had enough of this kak sharks team. I am taking a break. Go Stormers!!! And whoever comes after them!

  • Comment 30, posted at 28.02.15 21:04:39 by JarsonX Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition WinnerCompetition Winner
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 30) : I’m calling you a…………… realist. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 31, posted at 28.02.15 21:29:21 by Ben Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 27) : Agreed, no different game plan obvious to me. Same old, same old in my opinion

  • Comment 32, posted at 28.02.15 22:14:26 by stevovo Reply
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  • You guys must all be blind? I saw a Sharks side that was demolishing the Bulls physically. We played smart rugby and attacked well. Had we not been completely shafted (like we were) and won the game, you nay-sayers would all be singing the Sharks praises. The Sharks should be proud of tonight’s performance. I am a very proud Sharks supporter tonight!

  • Comment 33, posted at 28.02.15 23:07:11 by jakkalas Reply

    jakkalasCurrie Cup player
     
  • Lets do a bit of analysis. The first 2 penalties the bulls received were rubbish. Marcel clearly released and won the ball but was blown for not releasing. That should have been a penalty for the Sharks which would have put us in a good attacking position very early in the game. The second one which Bismarck got blown for was for not entering through the gate. Bismark was the tackler, and thus he was the gate when he went for the ball. Again, should have been a penalty for the Sharks. Then after that the forward pass try. Where do we stand now? 13 points? Let me remind you, that at this stage the Sharks were looking the hungrier of the two sides and were bossing collisions and stealing ball on the ground. We were looking very dangerous on attack. Had there been an unbiased ref, I believe we might have scored a try quite early on (or at least a couple of penalties). I think, with a better ref, we would have built momentum, and completely smashed the bulls. But as it turned out, we kept getting penalized for legit play, and falling behind on the scoreboard. Now I’m not saying we played perfectly, but the bulls (legit) tries came off the momentum they had which I believe was created for them by the refs KAK calls. The point is, I don’t think the Sharks stood much of a chance even before this game started with these match officials. I think we were up for the game. I think we had the bulls number and that we would have dominated in a fair game. If we play like this, and improve on this, we are going to do really well. Lets just hope we get better match officials in our future games.

  • Comment 34, posted at 28.02.15 23:24:27 by jakkalas Reply

    jakkalasCurrie Cup player
     
  • Just finished watching the game. Agree, the ref’s were crap. Also concur with an earlier statement that we need to learn how to control the controllables. Rudy is a very good scrumhalf and was able to exploit our defensive lapses. Our defence, ruck, rolling maul and ability to stay on our feet needs to drastically improve. I’m not too disappointed though. We look like a team on the up so I expect us to really start kicking ass soon. We need to increase the pace of the learning curve if we are to catch up and beat the likes of the Chiefs and Brumbies.

  • Comment 35, posted at 28.02.15 23:29:34 by GreatSharksays Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • Gutted right now…feel robbed but was happy with what was in our control…mostly and the boys held a resurgent Bulls team abd the game wss ours apart from some very odd game chabging calls. Next week we have more quality coming in.

  • Comment 36, posted at 28.02.15 23:53:50 by Sharkfinn Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • Very disappointed in Matfield. He played a dirty game and the way he handled the situation with Bissie was utterly childish. So much for the old and wise head!

  • Comment 37, posted at 01.03.15 00:00:51 by David12246 Reply

    ApolloCurrie Cup player
     
  • So as the dust settles and all the high emotions start to fade can anyone tell me this with an open mind?

    Did we deserve to lose?
    Was the ref inconsistent with us or with both teams?
    Are we in trouble next week?

  • Comment 38, posted at 01.03.15 02:04:42 by Shane Hansen Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • Still have a bloody sour taste in my mouth from the events that transpired last night.

  • Comment 39, posted at 01.03.15 06:42:34 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • Cobus Reinach needs a rest. Does anyone know if Claasens is fit to start?

  • Comment 40, posted at 01.03.15 07:01:54 by Ben Reply
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  • When last did the Sharks have a consistent scrumhalf playing for them? I can’t even remember.

  • Comment 41, posted at 01.03.15 07:05:27 by Ben Reply
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  • The rookie ref was thrown into the deep end and you could literally see the sweat falling from worry, he was probably told that he will be walloped if the bulls were to lose from his error. The Sharks were set up to lose. The narrative was that the bulls were not allowed to lose three home games. Their play was negative and ugly and the ref just let it slide. Victor acted like a real tool last night. If I was Smitty I would be taking it further because that refereeing display was unacceptable. The bulls will be on the receiving end of a shafting one day and I will have no sympathy for them.

  • Comment 42, posted at 01.03.15 07:09:32 by SeanJeff Reply
    Author
    SeanJeffSuper Rugby player
     
  • Let’s focus on what we can control.

    Bissie as captain, should never have lost his temper like that when Matfield played him off the ball.

    Our defence needs work. Conceding 35 against the Cheetahs and 43 against the Bulls simply isn’t good enough.

    We need to stop kicking all our ball away. Too much aimless kicking is what I saw last night. Focus more on possession, less on territory.

    We need to back ourselves when we get in their half. That drop goal from Lambie before half time was pointless. Literally pointless.

    We need a reliable and consistent scrumhalf. Decision making from a scrumhalf is so important. Take a leaf out of the Bulls book. Move Cobus Reinach to wing. That’s all he seems to be good at.

    Our lineouts weren’t great. I mean there is only 1 Victoria on the field. Why keep throwing the ball in his area? Also we need to learn to defend mauls. A collapsed maul lost us the game in the end.

  • Comment 43, posted at 01.03.15 07:20:14 by Ben Reply
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    BenAssistant coach
     
  • We were kept in the game by a very oppertunistic try by Reinach and as a whole the team lacked penetration big time. Were not going to win this comp with uppies.look im proud of the attitudes we saw from our boys on the field yesterday but wheres the enterprising play?

  • Comment 44, posted at 01.03.15 07:24:23 by tigershark Reply

    tigersharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • Sorry about the loss guys, but really! Yes the ref made some clangers, but to suggest that he was partisan is utter rubbish.
    Agree with Ben, that the Sharks need consistency! If anything this year has shown, that there are going to be upsets a plenty.
    Lions are going to be hard to beat on dry fields, but wet fields, seems to “cut Samson’s hair”

    Cheetahs benefitted by some calls too, but hey we have lost many a close game, in similar vein before. Many games are being won by the team that uses possession better. Hence all the stats that indicate dominance, come to nought if the ball is spilled before the try is scored.

    The Blues dropped three!! Does that necessarily make the Cheetahs lucky, or was the Blues execution poor?

    Anyway, long way to go, and many nuances will still come into play. Chin up lads, no doubt there will be an improvement next week. It’s not getting any easier. Bulls up next for us, and you guys face the Stormers!!

  • Comment 45, posted at 01.03.15 07:30:34 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @KingCheetah (Comment 45) : Congrats on beating the Blues. You guys took your chances. The Blues didn’t. Well done.

  • Comment 46, posted at 01.03.15 08:08:53 by Ben Reply
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  • @jakkalas (Comment 34) : Understand the Sharks being gutted, but did you only analyse the penalties that you feel the Sharks should have earned, or did you apply the same measure to the Bulls.

    Really, there are bad calls in rugby, but the level of vitriol on here, and 365 is bordering on serious sour grapes, and bad sportsmanship.

    Sharks are simply kicking to much, and are not controlling possession as well as the should, given the talent available.

  • Comment 47, posted at 01.03.15 08:13:06 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • How was the performance from PSDT,Bothma, Lambie, Odwa and even SP!? Awesome. Guys played really well. In fact, everyone played well. Really happy with the performance. Wow PSDT (better version of Mark Andrews). Sooner Alberts starts at 7 so that Renaldo can start at 8 the better, especially against SA sides. We really lost out with Paul Jordan being injured. We lack that spark that can create something out of nothing in the midfield. Maybe play Frans and JPP in the middle?

  • Comment 48, posted at 01.03.15 08:14:29 by GreatSharksays Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • Besides a few things that still need work….i.e. defence around the rucks, defending rolling mauls, I am extremely happy with what I am seeing at the moment. Just think our centres are not giving us that edge required to win these close games. No more losses now boys. As Kanko said, the competition is not won at this stage but it can be lost at this stage. Need to start winning boys.

  • Comment 49, posted at 01.03.15 08:20:05 by GreatSharksays Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 48) : I tend to agree. SP was far better yesterday.

  • Comment 50, posted at 01.03.15 08:44:06 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
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  • @Ben (Comment 43) : Ditto. We need to vary our attacking play. The cross-kick is great but that plus a forward bashing up in middle cannot be the only arrows in our quiver. I think our only line break was made by PSDT.

    Regardless of the validity of some of the tries being in question, the Bulls did create more try scoring opportunities.

  • Comment 51, posted at 01.03.15 08:46:48 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • Must say the interplay between Botma, SP, Odwa and Kanko for the try was really good. We need to see much more of that.

  • Comment 52, posted at 01.03.15 08:47:52 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 52) : One offload can really make a huge difference. I wish South African teams in general could put more emphasis on this.

  • Comment 53, posted at 01.03.15 09:12:47 by Ben Reply
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  • Don’t want to start doubtimg Gold’s coaching abilities too early in the season, but have to say that this kicking game plan sucked big time. What happened to Brendan venter’s waxing lyrical in that article on Supersport where he said the Sharks would be playing a ball in hand type of rugby this season, irrespective of whether it is winning rugby or not.

    The Sharks coaches clearly don’t rate Cobus Reinach’s passing abilities, so they have instructed him to kick everything from the base of the scrum. Do they not realize that Reinach sucks at kicking too? Lambie was making huge gains when kicking from hand into touch, yet hardly any ball went his way from scrums. SP and even Esterhuizen have also got good boots on them.

    Sorry if this sounds like a Reinach bashing post, but he cost the Sharks big time yesterday. Both Stegman and Spies’s tries were a direct result of his bad defense. Time for Reinach to be rotated out the squad for a month or two, or at least until someone teaches him some basic scrum-half skills.

  • Comment 54, posted at 01.03.15 09:24:32 by jonnow Reply

    jonnowSuper Rugby player
     
  • @jonnow (Comment 54) : Good luck to the Sharks if they want to use this game plan against the Chiefs. It’s going to be a loooooooooooong night.

  • Comment 55, posted at 01.03.15 09:38:32 by Ben Reply
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  • @jonnow (Comment 54) : Very well put,I hope my uneasy,initial reaction to seeing Gary Gold in a Sharks jersey in our coaching box was also incorrect.
    Have to go back a long way to remember when the Shark’s lost 2 out of the first 3,and you’d have to be a brave man to back them this weekend in Cape Town against that crowd and their partisan official

  • Comment 56, posted at 01.03.15 09:53:59 by The hound Reply
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  • Folks were unhappy with Jake White at the end. I wonder how long before we start wishing we had him back?…

    Was never convinced Gold was the right appointment from the start. Average at best.

  • Comment 57, posted at 01.03.15 10:29:10 by Feather Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @jonnow (Comment 54) : Watching Ross Cronje in the dying stages of the Lions game was a revelation, his speed and distribution skill are so underrated.Iam willing to bet a Butcher Boy s dinner that if he was playing with Lambie we would be 3 out of 3.
    Hell they played together for their whole high school careers.
    Reinarch as I said before is a retreaded winger and would be the star performer in the sevens team and the sooner he joins them the better.Maybe he could take S.P with him.

  • Comment 58, posted at 01.03.15 10:38:40 by The hound Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 47) : Vitriol is a bit of an exaggeration KC. I count one really unnecessary comment regarding the ref in this thread, the rest is par for the course venting about sub-standard decisions and the guy’s hometown influence. A lot of folks on here have been honest enough to admit that the Sharks still have many rough edges that didn’t aid their cause. If we simply had a better organised defense against rolling mauls it would probably have bagged us the game in spite of the ref and that TMO who failed trig ;)

  • Comment 59, posted at 01.03.15 14:14:33 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 59) : You missed the part where I mentioned “365″ It was hectic on there!
    So was more on there than here, so I agree.

  • Comment 60, posted at 01.03.15 14:21:33 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @KingCheetah (Comment 60) :Gotcha. By the way congrats on the Cheetahs victory. Loved the Cornal Hendricks try. That kind of stepping against a NZ team always feels like sweet justice to me. He’s got some things to work on but I love his vision.

  • Comment 61, posted at 01.03.15 14:28:19 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 43) :
    @Bokhoring (Comment 51) :
    Really good points here.

    I also felt Reniach had a poor game, but watched Lambie over the last few games, I have to wonder how much of this is due to the gameplan? When is the last time Lambie moved the ball wide by passing and not kicking? :roll:

    I thought the officiating was truly abysmal, but we do not control that. We need to focus on the fact that we made the poor officiating have a very big impact by ensuring that we played the game mostly in our half and on defence, simply because we did not respect possession. Stats show that defending teams concede the most penalties, especially with the law changes over the last few seasons.

    So yeah, I feel bad for the guys losing a tight one in such circumstances, but they also need to really step up.

  • Comment 62, posted at 01.03.15 14:36:29 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • Another Loss?
    Against the Bulls? Last time I checked they were the Wooden Spoon Contenders and didn’t they have Pierre Spies as well?
    So we lost against a 14 man team?!

    So happy I didn t cancel my party plans last night for these losers, although it would be even better if I could remember what happened last night ….

  • Comment 63, posted at 01.03.15 14:57:27 by Original Pierre Reply
    Author
    Original PierreSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Original Pierre (Comment 63) : You honestly can’t remember? You declared your undying love for Pierre Spies in a 7 post poem that Rob deleted for fear of attracting to many Bulls fans to the site. Really moving stuff, I saved some of it as a backup should I forget next year’s Valentines Day.

    Pierre, Pierre, ek lief jou meer en meer…

  • Comment 64, posted at 01.03.15 15:27:11 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 62) : spot on Fishy. However, I have to say that unfortunately, even with our not up to scratch display, points are points and the officiating cost us big time in this case. I always maintain to play that bad calls don’t influence the outcome, we did not do that, however the display by especially the TMO helped in this instance. But Sharks also need to step up big time.

  • Comment 65, posted at 01.03.15 15:28:17 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 62) : True. I still maintain my original view that the officiating was shocking, but Hougaardt’s try would still have been a try without the forward pass. Rudy Paige, total Super Rugby noob, created two tries for the Bulls loosies while our Bok scrumhalf stood still and passed to the first player in white he saw. The bonus point try came from a Deysel error and the grounding was fine. We have ourselves to blame.

  • Comment 66, posted at 01.03.15 16:32:31 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of RugbyTeam captain
     
  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 66) : Very good point. It was defensive issues that caused our downfall.

    The most shocking call from the ref for me was right at the end. When Hougaardt kicked an up and under and none of the Bulls’ players retreated.

    Bissie spoke to the ref about it and the ref just said, “the guy who kicked it is the same guy that caught it.”

    I mean I will be the first one to admit that my knowledge of the rugby laws ain’t great, but this is surely a no-brainer. How can a professional referee not know this and even better, how can a professional referee get away with this? Anyway, rant over. :roll:

  • Comment 67, posted at 01.03.15 16:48:55 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 67) : That also had me shouting at the tv!

  • Comment 68, posted at 01.03.15 16:56:33 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 66) : The sooner one forgets about Cobus the better. Learn to live with the shit he dishes up. Charl at his best had no equal in terms of distribution and ensuring that his 10 got good quick ball to work with. Maybe our centres arw not firing because the flyhalf has crap ball to work with.

  • Comment 69, posted at 01.03.15 16:56:40 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • Anyway, go Ireland!!!

  • Comment 70, posted at 01.03.15 16:59:19 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 69) : Good point. I remember one specific quick ruck ball, when Reinach passed to Jannie just hanging around with no interest in receiving the pass. It’s as if he’s just going through the motions – no initiative. Exactly the same with our 22 exit strategy. Why is Reinach kicking and not Lambie? Every time we end up defending a lineout halfway between our 22 and 10. That seems like a coaching strategy.

  • Comment 71, posted at 01.03.15 17:04:32 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • Let’s not be TOO hard on Reinach. He scores plenty of tries, and the point I was trying to make was around how much of his distribution decisions are his and not part of a dictated game plan. I am starting to suspect more of the latter.

  • Comment 72, posted at 01.03.15 17:09:03 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 71) : Distribution has never been Cobus’ strong suit. Neither has his kicking. Which leaves the question. What is he there for?

    It just seems like getting a few Bok caps has made him more relaxed, he feels that everything will happen without trying, without effort. It will just come to him. He needs to be moved to wing, that’s all he is good for at the moment.

  • Comment 73, posted at 01.03.15 17:12:47 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 73) : SA Rugby seems to coach every last ounce of natural talent and instinct out of players. I don’t remember Reinach starting of as a link and kick robot. How long before young Paige follows the same path?

  • Comment 74, posted at 01.03.15 17:22:36 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 72) : He needs a rude awakening BF.

  • Comment 75, posted at 01.03.15 17:26:40 by Ben Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 74) : Remember what the Waratahs said about Sarel Pretorious when he first joined them? It wasn’t good.

    So what are are our coaches teaching the scrumhalves of today. Everything but the basics is what it seems like.

  • Comment 76, posted at 01.03.15 17:30:37 by Ben Reply
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  • @Original Pierre (Comment 63) : that try got him back in the Bok no 8 jersey!

  • Comment 77, posted at 01.03.15 17:40:47 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 77) : He never lost it. Duane was just keeping it warm for him. :grin:

  • Comment 78, posted at 01.03.15 17:46:31 by Ben Reply
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  • This game just made two thing very clear me:
    I really hate Vic!!!!
    And this is going to be a long season for us Shark supporters!!!!!

  • Comment 79, posted at 01.03.15 17:49:56 by JD Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 78) : ja that’s true!!

  • Comment 80, posted at 01.03.15 17:51:01 by JD Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 76) : I wish I knew! :roll:

  • Comment 81, posted at 01.03.15 18:01:33 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 77) : @Ben (Comment 78) : Surely there is no chance of that…surely!

  • Comment 82, posted at 01.03.15 18:05:30 by pastorshark Reply
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  • 24 hours has sort of got my anger to subside…

  • Comment 83, posted at 01.03.15 18:06:27 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Ireland is all over England, by the way…12-3 after 52 minutes…

  • Comment 84, posted at 01.03.15 18:07:35 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 82) : Nothing from Heyneke would surprise me at this stage. :roll:

  • Comment 85, posted at 01.03.15 18:08:06 by Ben Reply
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  • If Henshaw has managed to stay in…that is a GREAT try!

  • Comment 86, posted at 01.03.15 18:08:26 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 84) : No time for watching that. My team is playing in a cup final now. :grin:

  • Comment 87, posted at 01.03.15 18:08:51 by Ben Reply
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  • What a great try!!! Ireland lead 17-3…

  • Comment 88, posted at 01.03.15 18:09:12 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 85) : I would be mildly upset…but what else is new! :grin:

  • Comment 89, posted at 01.03.15 18:10:09 by pastorshark Reply
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  • The conversion is good and Ireland lead 19-3 after 53 minutes…

  • Comment 90, posted at 01.03.15 18:11:00 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 87) : Tottenham or Chelsea?

  • Comment 91, posted at 01.03.15 18:11:46 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 91) : The blue team. ;)

  • Comment 92, posted at 01.03.15 18:12:09 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 67) : That was the biggest cause of my anger!! Lambie would have had a kick to win the game!! I understand differences in interpretation of laws will always lead to arguments. But to just get basic calls wrong because you don’t know the laws…and in an immediate and real sense deciding the outcome through it…that gets me seething!!! :evil:

  • Comment 93, posted at 01.03.15 18:16:42 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 92) : Good luck…my team hasn’t seen a final for years!!

  • Comment 94, posted at 01.03.15 18:17:18 by pastorshark Reply
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  • England pull back a penalty and make it 19-6 after 58 minutes…

  • Comment 95, posted at 01.03.15 18:18:15 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 94) : Thanks mate.

  • Comment 96, posted at 01.03.15 18:19:55 by Ben Reply
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  • England get another penalty and make it 19-9…after 68 minutes…

  • Comment 97, posted at 01.03.15 18:27:12 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Ireland survive a huge onslaught by England and get a scrum due to accidental offside…phew!

  • Comment 98, posted at 01.03.15 18:32:10 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Good game in the 6 Nations, this…

  • Comment 99, posted at 01.03.15 18:32:40 by pastorshark Reply
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  • And then Ireland get a freekick at the scrum…

  • Comment 100, posted at 01.03.15 18:33:32 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Great tackle by the prop dislodges the ball and Ireland have a scrum…good defence…19-9 after 75 minutes…

  • Comment 101, posted at 01.03.15 18:35:55 by pastorshark Reply
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  • How I wish Craig Joubert had reffed last night…

  • Comment 102, posted at 01.03.15 18:36:45 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Penalty to Ireland and they will chase England deep into their half…looks like they have weathered the storm…

  • Comment 103, posted at 01.03.15 18:37:35 by pastorshark Reply
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  • 19-9 after 77 minutes…

  • Comment 104, posted at 01.03.15 18:38:08 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Ireland just controlling the possession now…

  • Comment 105, posted at 01.03.15 18:38:40 by pastorshark Reply
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  • They have held onto the ball for almost two minutes within a 5m radius of the same spot…

  • Comment 106, posted at 01.03.15 18:39:39 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Now England get 2 penalties in quick succession and run it…but too little too late…

  • Comment 107, posted at 01.03.15 18:40:26 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Joubert calls the forward pass (that’s novel!) and the game is all over…

  • Comment 108, posted at 01.03.15 18:41:18 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Ireland win 19-9…

  • Comment 109, posted at 01.03.15 18:41:52 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Robbie Henshaw is the man of the match…he was very good!

  • Comment 110, posted at 01.03.15 18:43:03 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Man, this makes the 6 Nations very interesting! Wales vs Ireland in two weeks time will be a biggie!!

  • Comment 111, posted at 01.03.15 18:44:12 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Chelsea score! Well done, Ben…

  • Comment 112, posted at 01.03.15 18:44:40 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 112) : Captain fantastic!

  • Comment 113, posted at 01.03.15 18:45:34 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 112) : We need to score a few more. Kill this game off.

  • Comment 114, posted at 01.03.15 18:46:51 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 113) : He just keeps going! And just on the stroke of halftime! That’ll be his new one year contract sealed… :grin:

  • Comment 115, posted at 01.03.15 18:47:11 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 114) : That was almost the second…and almost a penalty…

  • Comment 116, posted at 01.03.15 18:48:02 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 115) : For sure.

    Cahill almost doubled our lead right at the end there.

  • Comment 117, posted at 01.03.15 18:48:32 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 116) : We have Zouma playing in the midfield. :roll:

  • Comment 118, posted at 01.03.15 18:49:23 by Ben Reply
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  • Jeepers, just watching the Wales-France highlights…so that try was disallowed by the TMO for a forward pass…and the ball wasn’t a third as much forward as the one by the Bulls! Ai, Johann Greef!!

  • Comment 119, posted at 01.03.15 18:51:01 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 115) : Did you know… Any player at Chelsea older than 30 is not allowed to get a contract for longer than 1 year.

  • Comment 120, posted at 01.03.15 18:52:35 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 102) : Damn you Six Nations! :grin:

  • Comment 121, posted at 01.03.15 18:53:16 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 119) : :roll:

  • Comment 122, posted at 01.03.15 18:54:37 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 120) : Yup…I read that…

  • Comment 123, posted at 01.03.15 18:58:25 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Terry will get his new contract this week…

  • Comment 124, posted at 01.03.15 18:59:23 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 124) : He has been our best defender…

  • Comment 125, posted at 01.03.15 19:00:23 by Ben Reply
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  • In other good news for you: Manchester City lost today! Well done Liverpool…my brother will be chuffed!!

  • Comment 126, posted at 01.03.15 19:00:30 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Man City lost to Liverpool. So chuffed about that! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 127, posted at 01.03.15 19:01:16 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 126) : Great minds! :grin:

  • Comment 128, posted at 01.03.15 19:01:58 by Ben Reply
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  • I have a debate to open (or reopen!):
    I get the whole “professional referees” thing. But is it really a good idea to have so many hometown refs involved in games? Last night:
    - Jaco van der Westhuizen is, as far as I can tell from Google, a Blue Bull product, having joined the Blue Bulls refereeing society in 2003.
    - Johan Greeff is not only part of the Blue Bulls refereeing society, he is, according to the SARU web page (unless there are two with the same name) its vice-chairman.
    Is it right to appoint these two to referee a local derby involving the Bulls?!
    Please don’t get me wrong. I am NOT accusing anyone of cheating…I am questioning whether this is a good idea. Psychologically, sub-consciously, would this not impact 50-50 decisions (and even the odd 80-20 decision! :twisted: )…

  • Comment 129, posted at 01.03.15 19:07:51 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 128) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 130, posted at 01.03.15 19:08:52 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 118) : :mrgreen: :lol:

  • Comment 131, posted at 01.03.15 19:09:43 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 118) : I will resist the temptation to make a political comment… :grin:

  • Comment 132, posted at 01.03.15 19:10:34 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 129) : That can never be a good idea!

  • Comment 133, posted at 01.03.15 19:10:42 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 132) : :lol:

  • Comment 134, posted at 01.03.15 19:11:38 by Ben Reply
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  • Second gooooaaaaal!!

  • Comment 135, posted at 01.03.15 19:13:36 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Costa! Beauty!

  • Comment 136, posted at 01.03.15 19:13:44 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 67) :

    The “same player” call was incorrect, but it made no difference. Basson was onside and had advanced past the forwards, which made them onside also.

    The ref certainly got some of the early penalties wrong and Sharks fans may be frustrated by the TMO rulings, which went against them on all the subjective points, but were not necessarily incorrect either.

  • Comment 137, posted at 01.03.15 19:13:53 by fyndraai Reply
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  • Lucky, but I’ll take it regardless! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 138, posted at 01.03.15 19:14:34 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 129) : Invites conspiracies even where there might be none. Neutral refs is the way to go.

  • Comment 139, posted at 01.03.15 19:15:48 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 139) : 100% correct.

  • Comment 140, posted at 01.03.15 19:17:40 by Ben Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 137) : I’m not sure what you mean. Do you mean the ref was correct in not awarding the Sharks a penalty?

  • Comment 141, posted at 01.03.15 19:19:44 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 141) :

    Yes.
    Basson was onside at the kick and he advanced past the forwards, which made them onside also.

  • Comment 142, posted at 01.03.15 19:31:58 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 139) :

    I’m interested in hearing how you’d proposed to determine neutrality.

    Where a person grew up or went to school do not automatically determine his rugby loyalties.
    If we, for example take a random person named Rob Otto and make him a referee, would it be wise to appoint him as “neutral” referee for a Sharks vs. Cheetahs game?

  • Comment 143, posted at 01.03.15 19:39:05 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 142) : Maybe you should go and watch it again. The forwards need to retreat directly after the up and under is made. None of them did.

  • Comment 144, posted at 01.03.15 19:39:17 by Ben Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 143) : Get referees from overseas. Simple.

  • Comment 145, posted at 01.03.15 19:40:09 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 129) : I will go as far as saying he is a cheat, I have copies of some of his tweets in 2012 and it is huge proof, I just do not know how to copy and paste it in here as it does not allow one to do so.

    here is one tweet dated 11/05/2012
    Nail biting stuff by the Bulls this morning, Good win, Go bulls!!!

  • Comment 146, posted at 01.03.15 19:44:28 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 139) : I’m with you…

  • Comment 147, posted at 01.03.15 19:47:57 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 144) : This is the way I see it…but I’m willing ti be corrected by someone who knows more than me. It will be interesting to see what Jonathan Kaplan says on his site…

  • Comment 148, posted at 01.03.15 19:50:40 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 146) : Look, I wouldn’t go as far as saying cheating…I get that the temptation is there, though. I just think it is highly problematic…

  • Comment 149, posted at 01.03.15 19:52:43 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Well done on the c1c, Ben…

  • Comment 150, posted at 01.03.15 19:53:15 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 143) : Look, while there are always complications that can never completely overcome, I don’t think those are a reason for not cleaning up some basic neutrality rules that could be better. Personally I think that you should not ref or be TMO in a game in which the union that employs you is playing…

  • Comment 151, posted at 01.03.15 19:56:54 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 150) : Thanks! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 152, posted at 01.03.15 19:58:30 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 149) : I hear ya but his tweets tells a story,

    Also before the match I sat telling Marcell Coetzee’s father that the last time the ref of the match blew a Sharks match he blew them out the water, it was CC

  • Comment 153, posted at 01.03.15 19:58:46 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 150) : Now the League and the Champions League. ;)

  • Comment 154, posted at 01.03.15 20:01:52 by Ben Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 146) : That doesn’t prove anything mate.

  • Comment 155, posted at 01.03.15 20:03:17 by Ben Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 143) : How about starting by simply asking them who they support? I think these guys want to see the game of rugby advance. I suspect the vast majority of them would be willing to answer honestly. It ultimately protects them from unnecessary finger pointing too. Doubt there’s a foolproof system but let’s try something to stop unnecessary suspicision.

  • Comment 156, posted at 01.03.15 20:05:14 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 150) : John Terry got MOtM.

  • Comment 157, posted at 01.03.15 20:06:48 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 155) : It also does not disprove it ;-) there are more tweets just not able to copy and paste it here.

  • Comment 158, posted at 01.03.15 20:07:04 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 156) : exactly, the tweets I got clearly shows Greef to be a Bulls supporter

  • Comment 159, posted at 01.03.15 20:08:35 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 158) : It proves he’s a Bulls fan. It doesn’t prove he’s a cheater.

  • Comment 160, posted at 01.03.15 20:10:33 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 151) :

    I’m under the impression that the referees are all employed by SARU or Sanzar. Is this not the case?

    @Ben (Comment 144) :
    I think you interpret the laws incorrectly.
    There would be have to be a penalty awarded on every box kick if this was so.

  • Comment 161, posted at 01.03.15 20:11:16 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 159) : So? Unfortunately there is no rule forbidding him from refereeing a Bulls game.

  • Comment 162, posted at 01.03.15 20:11:55 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 160) : If he is not a cheat he sure as hell has sight problems :mrgreen:

  • Comment 163, posted at 01.03.15 20:12:17 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 161) : No. Because the forwards aren’t within 10 meters of where the ball will land for every box kick. If you are within 10 meters, you must retreat immediately.

  • Comment 164, posted at 01.03.15 20:13:22 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 162) : Funny that his sight did not fail him when he made decisions in favour of the Bulls lol

  • Comment 165, posted at 01.03.15 20:14:25 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • Basson might have been onside, but only the kicker can put the rest of the players onside. Plus they need to retreat outside the 10m radius. Or am I wrong?

  • Comment 166, posted at 01.03.15 20:14:40 by McLovin Reply

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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 163) : Not going to argue on that one. I might go as far as to say he might have mental problems too, but I won’t. ;) :lol: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 167, posted at 01.03.15 20:14:45 by Ben Reply
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  • @McLovin (Comment 166) : My bad. Not only the kicker. But the rest still need to retreat. They didn’t.

  • Comment 168, posted at 01.03.15 20:17:20 by McLovin Reply

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  • @Ben (Comment 157) : He deserved it…

  • Comment 169, posted at 01.03.15 20:18:44 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @McLovin (Comment 168) : Exactly.

  • Comment 170, posted at 01.03.15 20:18:51 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 167) : :lol:

  • Comment 171, posted at 01.03.15 20:21:34 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 171) : I mean he does support the Bulls. ;)

  • Comment 172, posted at 01.03.15 20:22:24 by Ben Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 161) : No, only those box kicks where the ball comes down within 10 meters of where it was kicked…or am I reading the law wrong?

  • Comment 173, posted at 01.03.15 20:22:28 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 169) : Like Greef and co, if they get smacked?? they deserve it!!! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 174, posted at 01.03.15 20:23:01 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 160) : Agreed…

  • Comment 175, posted at 01.03.15 20:23:21 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 172) : lol true

  • Comment 176, posted at 01.03.15 20:23:57 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 173) : It doesn’t matter how far the player kicks it. If there are players within 10 meters of where the ball will land, they are offside and must retreat immediately.

  • Comment 177, posted at 01.03.15 20:25:34 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 173) : You are not wrong, in yesterdays case only the kicker or someone that was behind him may have gone for the ball, the rest all offsides and had to retreat 10m first.

  • Comment 178, posted at 01.03.15 20:26:13 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 177) : exacaterllllly :mrgreen:

  • Comment 179, posted at 01.03.15 20:27:57 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 156) :

    If a guy really had the intention to cheat it’s likely he’ll be dishonest on the question also. You’d only be limiting opportunities for “good guys”. Unnecessary suspicion will always be there, but I think it is time for the fans to recognize that the referees are professionals now also. Favoring one team over another is not in their interest.

  • Comment 180, posted at 01.03.15 20:28:06 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 161) : Let me rephrase (and please keep in mind, I have admitted that I don’t fully understand how all this works exactly): they shouldn’t be involved in games in which the union of who’s refereeing association they are members…I really don’t know how it works for the elite panel refs, but if Johan Greeff is the vice chairman of the Blue Bulls Refereeing Association, that would be a problem to me…

  • Comment 181, posted at 01.03.15 20:28:26 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 180) : “Favouring one team over another is not in their interest.”

    And last night proved your point, right? I mean why would we be having this debate in the first place?

  • Comment 182, posted at 01.03.15 20:31:10 by Ben Reply
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  • Here’s the law:

    (a) When a team-mate of an offside player has kicked ahead, the offside player is considered to
    be taking part in the game if the player is in front of an imaginary line across the field which
    is 10 metres from the opponent waiting to play the ball, or from where the ball lands or may
    land. The offside player must immediately move behind the imaginary 10-metre line. While
    moving away, the player must not obstruct an opponent.
    Penalty: Penalty Kick

    (b) While moving away, the offside player cannot be put onside by any action of the opposing
    team. However, before the player has moved the full 10 metres, the player can be put
    onside by any onside team-mate who runs in front of the player.

    Under (a) they were off-side, the moment the kick was made, but under (b) they were put onside by Basson as soon as he ran past them (which was moments after the kick and before anyone could judge were it would come down).

    Interesting none the less. I’m going to keep an eye on the referee websites to see what they say about it.

  • Comment 183, posted at 01.03.15 20:34:05 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 177) : Yeah, I get that, I was just making the point that if the ball comes down within 10m of where it was kicked, those guys must automatically retreat first until they are put onside…
    When the ball is kicked further those guys don’t have to retreat, but must stand still until they are put onside…
    In response to fyndraais comment that means that you anc I agree that there would not have to be a penalty for not retreating at every box kick…

  • Comment 184, posted at 01.03.15 20:34:26 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 182) : :lol:

  • Comment 185, posted at 01.03.15 20:35:08 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 182) :

    We are having this debate because we as fans obviously favor one team over another.

  • Comment 186, posted at 01.03.15 20:35:22 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 183) : Agreed…let’s see what is said about it further…

  • Comment 187, posted at 01.03.15 20:35:27 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 184) : Yes they must be put onside first, ion the case where they are within the 10meters of the kick coming down they do have to retreat first.

  • Comment 188, posted at 01.03.15 20:37:43 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 180) : When I introduced the point, I made clear that I was not accusing anyone of cheating…I am more concerned on the effect it has subconsciously on interpretations and perceptions…that’s why I still think this should be considered and discussed further…

  • Comment 189, posted at 01.03.15 20:40:20 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 183) : Yes, it will be interesting to see what they say about it.

  • Comment 190, posted at 01.03.15 20:40:21 by Ben Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 183) :
    I stand to be corrected but regarding scenario (b), as I recall, every Bull, including Basson was within 10 – thus only Hougaard could put anyone onside (since he was the kicker).

    In any event, I still think that we need to look beyond all this at the many real problems we have to deal with as a team.

    Well done to your guys on breaking the duck.

  • Comment 191, posted at 01.03.15 20:41:30 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @jonnow (Comment 54) : Have to say Paige schooled Reinach in the basics of scrumhalf play. Apart from his charged down kick, I thought he had a pretty impressive game overall.

  • Comment 192, posted at 01.03.15 20:43:29 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 186) : Favouring the Sharks is not the point. Most of us already said that the Sharks deserved to lose. I never said the ref cost us the game. But what happened last night was unacceptable.

    For Jan Serfontein’s try at the end, the TMO said that a Sharks player pushed the ball back over the line. What was that all about?

  • Comment 193, posted at 01.03.15 20:43:39 by Ben Reply
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  • Just because the ref made a few kak decisions, doesn’t make him biased.

    Besides how do you measure bias? If you want to be a pro ref then there is simply no incentive to be seen as biased. It would be an extremely kak career move.

  • Comment 194, posted at 01.03.15 20:45:00 by McLovin Reply

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  • @Big Fish (Comment 191) : What you say is true…

  • Comment 195, posted at 01.03.15 20:45:01 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 191) : Oh, he supports the Bulls? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 196, posted at 01.03.15 20:45:30 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 193) : It’s the same as one or two tries last season. One for the Lions where it looked like a clear knock-on but TMO said tackler knocked ball out of carrier’s hands towards the try line and they scored. Looks iffy but guess by the letter of the law it’s the right decision.

  • Comment 197, posted at 01.03.15 20:48:35 by McLovin Reply

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  • @Ben (Comment 193) : There were a lot of contentious points, not all mistakes were made by the TMO.

    Bulls were offside at most rucks, like the Bismark matfield fight, falling offside rule was not properly policed by the Ref, nor many knock on’s

  • Comment 198, posted at 01.03.15 20:48:52 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 180) : Look, I’m not disagreeing with any of your statements regarding refereeing (I have no dog in the onside/offside debate) but rather playing devil’s advocate. I’m not happy with all the decisions made but it’s still too far a mental leap for me to even suggest bias. Pressure from a home crowd? Sure, but this is the guy’s living. Outright favour is a huge risk. Where I do think you’re being over optimistic is suggesting that fans need to realize that it’s not in a refs interest to show bias. Fans will always be fans. So remove the element of doubt as best you can. You want to keep fans coming back don’t you? Perhaps my suggestion on proving neutrality has some holes in it but there has to be a method that at least removes some doubt and keeps fans happier.

  • Comment 199, posted at 01.03.15 20:49:27 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @McLovin (Comment 197) : Might have been last year, or the year before. Who knows… :mrgreen:

  • Comment 200, posted at 01.03.15 20:50:13 by McLovin Reply

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  • @McLovin (Comment 194) : I agree with you…and I keep trying to say that I don’t want to make this discussion about cheating or bias…I still think it is a good idea to use “neutral refs” (however you decide that). In my opinion it does cause issues on a subconscious interpretive level…

  • Comment 201, posted at 01.03.15 20:50:35 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @McLovin (Comment 194) : You obviously do not know Pretoria people :lol:

  • Comment 202, posted at 01.03.15 20:52:18 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @McLovin (Comment 200) : Yeah, last year…Lions vs Blues I think…the point is it was wrong in that game and it was wrong last night…

  • Comment 203, posted at 01.03.15 20:53:39 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @McLovin (Comment 197) : @sharks_lover (Comment 198) : Look, even if the ref was from overseas, we would still be complaining like this. The fact that this ref has ties with the Bulls just adds fuel to the fire.

  • Comment 204, posted at 01.03.15 20:54:22 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 201) : Neutral refs where tried in previous years, not? As soon as the refs are equally criticised by both the losing and winning sides I’ll buy into the bias thing.

    You win some you lose some. :twisted:

  • Comment 205, posted at 01.03.15 20:54:37 by McLovin Reply

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  • No m, I am wondering if all these analysis would be taking place if the Sharks had benefitted form the calls, and lets be honest that have in the past also benefitted. Methinks not, and all this crap about the ref being a Bulls supporter is quite frankly immature!!

  • Comment 206, posted at 01.03.15 20:54:56 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 202) : Thank goodness for the little things…. :twisted:

  • Comment 207, posted at 01.03.15 20:55:27 by McLovin Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 199) : One can also argue that Match officials are protected species and they know it, how many players or officials in various sports have committed the crime of match fixing?? :twisted: , ok enough stirring by me… :lol:

  • Comment 208, posted at 01.03.15 20:56:53 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @McLovin (Comment 207) : Hahaha…

  • Comment 209, posted at 01.03.15 20:57:09 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 206) : Like your running from blog to blog to stir?? yeah real maturity.

  • Comment 210, posted at 01.03.15 20:58:20 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 204) : That’s the point…

  • Comment 211, posted at 01.03.15 20:58:31 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @McLovin (Comment 205) : Agree, some will see bias in anything!! As soon as some people can’t handle a loss the ref gets the blame.. Then the analasys starts, and every potential penalty as added to their imaginary score…somehow they don’t apply the equal measure to their opponents potential penalties, those get glossed over!!

    All this makes some people just look like sore losers.

  • Comment 212, posted at 01.03.15 20:58:34 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @Ben (Comment 193) :

    There is an IRB ruling on that one that you may read here:

    http://laws.worldrugby.org/index.php?domain=10&year=2011&clarification=82&language=EN

  • Comment 213, posted at 01.03.15 20:59:28 by fyndraai Reply
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  • Now for a new subject?? would be interesting to see next weeks Sharks lineup

  • Comment 214, posted at 01.03.15 21:00:59 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • So what colour is that dress? :shock:

  • Comment 215, posted at 01.03.15 21:01:19 by McLovin Reply

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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 206) : Of course it wouldn’t but if it did take place you also wouldn’t be posting on a site named Sharksworld. Fans bitch and moan when their team suffers as a result of dodgy calls but this is certainly not unique to Sharks fans. Accusing the ref of bias because he dares support a local team is however a stretch.

  • Comment 216, posted at 01.03.15 21:01:22 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 206) : Look, I introduced the debate…I know for sure I introduced it because I am a bit upset by what happened last night…absolutely…and on that basis your point is fair. I still have a problem with it that goes beyond what happened last night. I have never been a fan of the decision to stop having neutral refs (and that includes not only on a union but also on a country basis)…
    There we are…

  • Comment 217, posted at 01.03.15 21:02:43 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Team I am hoping for, and dare I say it? SP had his best game of the season?

  • Comment 218, posted at 01.03.15 21:03:04 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 213) : Not saying it was right or wrong. I really don’t know because I stream the games and the quality is unfortunately not HD. Thus I asked, what was that all about.

  • Comment 219, posted at 01.03.15 21:03:26 by Ben Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 210) : Show me where I stirred on this thread? I was here to say, the Sharks will bounce back. Really though the whining is becoming a bit pathetic!

  • Comment 220, posted at 01.03.15 21:03:51 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • Of course I stir… most people with a sense of humour stir and tease. If the kitchen gets too hot for you, then get out.

  • Comment 221, posted at 01.03.15 21:04:41 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 216) : Agreed…

  • Comment 222, posted at 01.03.15 21:05:15 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 213) : Your link does not explain what happened last night.

  • Comment 223, posted at 01.03.15 21:05:58 by Ben Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 221) : That’s why we love to hate you. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 224, posted at 01.03.15 21:06:47 by Ben Reply
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  • Rugby is professional. No way can they introduce ‘neutral’ refs. That would be an admission that some refs are indeed biased. They simply appoint a pro ref for each game. Some of them better than others.

  • Comment 225, posted at 01.03.15 21:06:48 by McLovin Reply

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  • So what is it? Black & blue or white and gold. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 226, posted at 01.03.15 21:08:11 by McLovin Reply

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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 221) : You guys better whip the Bulls next weekend. No less than 50 to zip will do! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 227, posted at 01.03.15 21:08:26 by Ben Reply
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  • @McLovin (Comment 225) : Some of them ‘far’ better than others, you mean. ;)

  • Comment 228, posted at 01.03.15 21:09:24 by Ben Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 220) : There was much that was good in the game, there was quite a bit that wasn’t good…all in all it looks to me like the SA conference will be a tight one this year…let’s see what happens. Well done on the Cheetahs result by the way…

  • Comment 229, posted at 01.03.15 21:10:17 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @McLovin (Comment 225) : That is the bit I want to debate…because I don’t think that is right to reduce the problem to bias. The potential problems with not using neutral refs cannot be reduced simply to bias. Should one not take into account the subconscious impact on interpretations and 50-50 decisions, as well as the problems it introduces re: perceptions of fans, etc.

  • Comment 230, posted at 01.03.15 21:14:08 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 217) : Boils down to the following: if there’s room for improvement when it comes to refereeing, then why not? The point has been raised so many times in the past and hit home for Sharks fans this weekend but it’s definitely not a rare occurrence. This weekend I can live with because the Sharks had the opportunity to win despite any decisions by the ref. The Bismarck tackle on Carter still bothers me when I think about it.

    Simplify the rules, introduce a challenge system or put another ref on the field. Do something before people decide to flock off to sevens and league.

  • Comment 231, posted at 01.03.15 21:14:49 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 230) : So I’m trying to say it would not be an admission of bias, but a recognition that more factors than just bias play a role…

  • Comment 232, posted at 01.03.15 21:15:34 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 212) : For the record. None of us blamed the ref for the loss.

    We are looking for a solution to prevent future problems exactly as this.

  • Comment 233, posted at 01.03.15 21:15:46 by Ben Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 199) :

    I understand why many fans and commentators wants “neutral” referees, but I think the system that sanzar used in the past was seriously flawed. Aussies, Kiwis and Saffas has inherent biases towards each other also. The Aus ref would have favored the NZ over the SA team and the SA ref would have favored the NZ over the Aus team….. See where this is going.

    Biases were built into that system such that if there were any they would have added up over time.

    Currently fans may take comfort in the fact that bad (or biased) referees are usually demoted.

  • Comment 234, posted at 01.03.15 21:15:56 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 230) : How do you measure ‘subconscious’?

    Plus home teams get the benefit of 50/50 calls. Happens in pretty much all sports. Regardless of who the ref is.

  • Comment 235, posted at 01.03.15 21:16:39 by McLovin Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 231) : I agree…

  • Comment 236, posted at 01.03.15 21:17:28 by pastorshark Reply
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  • 15 Odwa
    14 Wilson
    13 JpP
    12 Steyn
    11 Mvovo
    10 Lambie
    09 Reinach
    08 Bothma
    07 Alberts
    06 Marcell
    05 PSDT
    04 Botha or Oupa
    03 Jannie
    02 Bismark
    01 Thomas

    16 Cooper
    17 Adriaanse
    18 Chadwick
    19 Kanko
    20 Tera as Deysel I think has a bad ankle injury
    21 Ungerer
    22 Fred
    23 Heimer/Esterhuizen

  • Comment 237, posted at 01.03.15 21:17:53 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 217) : Bud we all get upset by bad calls that ostensibly cost us the match, me too. But refs off the pitch are surely human and support a team too, to suggest that tweets are proof that he is biased is stretching things bit.

    The rules are complex, and leads to errors. That said, even using the TMO hasn’t eliminated these blatant blunders. Does it make the ref biased, or corrupt. Buggered if I know!! That it hurts, damn right!

  • Comment 238, posted at 01.03.15 21:19:09 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @McLovin (Comment 235) : Fair points…

  • Comment 239, posted at 01.03.15 21:19:45 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 234) : Well let’s hope he gets demoted then.

  • Comment 240, posted at 01.03.15 21:20:21 by Ben Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 234) : Also fair points…

  • Comment 241, posted at 01.03.15 21:20:52 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 223) :

    The TMO’s words were that “the ball was pushed back by the white player”. Which means according the the IRB ruling there was no knock-on.

  • Comment 242, posted at 01.03.15 21:21:51 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 234) : I edited in an additional comment that I like to repeat as most people probably missed it. If neutral refs are an impossibility look for other options.

    Simplify the rules, introduce a challenge system or put an additional ref on the field. Do something before people decide to flock off to sevens and league.

  • Comment 243, posted at 01.03.15 21:22:39 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 231) : Someone earlier mentioned the Captains of teams being allowed to question refs decisions twice in a match like in cricket, maybe that would help?

  • Comment 244, posted at 01.03.15 21:22:56 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 242) : I got that. But is that really what happened?

  • Comment 245, posted at 01.03.15 21:23:07 by Ben Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 238) : I also agree that it is a stretch to jump to the “bias” conclusion…I said so in response to the comments that suggested it. What you say is true… :lol:

  • Comment 246, posted at 01.03.15 21:23:26 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 233) : Most yes, but some that suggest that they saw tweets, and that proves beyond doubt that the ref is a home town ref is a bit rich! Was he inept, for sure. He was inexperienced at this level, and maybe the pressure cooker atmosphere had him on edge.

    I know most on here will after a bit of cooling off look at the match more rationally, which is also what has transpired to a degree.
    So yes I do know that.

  • Comment 247, posted at 01.03.15 21:24:27 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • The Serfontein try was a carbon copy of Marcell’s no-try in the Cheetah game. One is awarded – the other not. We really need consistency in the TMO interpretations.

  • Comment 248, posted at 01.03.15 21:24:56 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 244) : A referral. They use it in the NFL too. Now that really isn’t a bad idea.

  • Comment 249, posted at 01.03.15 21:25:07 by Ben Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 238) : That’s the whole point, these mistakes being make and that from a TMO watching the incident in slo-mo, and yes not only against the Sharks, we have seen this now in many many games

  • Comment 250, posted at 01.03.15 21:25:30 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 249) : I think they tried it in the varsity cup?? not 10% sure though.

  • Comment 251, posted at 01.03.15 21:27:27 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 247) : Now now. How much money that person has in his account is none of my business! ;) :mrgreen:

  • Comment 252, posted at 01.03.15 21:28:19 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 246) : Like I said before I was stirring but even in your words it is not far fetched considering the position Greef holds within BB;s rugby union,

    I have a debate to open (or reopen!):
    I get the whole “professional referees” thing. But is it really a good idea to have so many hometown refs involved in games? Last night:
    – Jaco van der Westhuizen is, as far as I can tell from Google, a Blue Bull product, having joined the Blue Bulls refereeing society in 2003.
    – Johan Greeff is not only part of the Blue Bulls refereeing society, he is, according to the SARU web page (unless there are two with the same name) its vice-chairman.
    Is it right to appoint these two to referee a local derby involving the Bulls?!
    Please don’t get me wrong. I am NOT accusing anyone of cheating…I am questioning whether this is a good idea. Psychologically, sub-consciously, would this not impact 50-50 decisions (and even the odd 80-20 decision! :twisted: )…

  • Comment 253, posted at 01.03.15 21:29:30 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 213) : Thanks for the info. I didn’t know about that clarification. That is fair enough and seems to me to be exactly what happened…

  • Comment 254, posted at 01.03.15 21:29:37 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 251) : But then again it’s all down to the subjective opinion of the TMO after you refer the decision.

  • Comment 255, posted at 01.03.15 21:29:56 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 252) : Well if it is a lot he is welcome to share? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 256, posted at 01.03.15 21:30:24 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 227) : Lets hope, pity that I will get to eat the Blou Bul steak that I offered you :mrgreen:

    But I will gladly share. Think it will be another tough match. This years tournament is damned unpredictable, but so far my luck on Superbru is holding (touch wood)

  • Comment 257, posted at 01.03.15 21:30:42 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @Ben (Comment 249) : Doubt very much it would have helped Saturday when the TMO made the most controversial decisions.

  • Comment 258, posted at 01.03.15 21:31:43 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 254) : Hey do not concede so easily, Fyndraai is the enemy :mrgreen: :lol: :lol:

  • Comment 259, posted at 01.03.15 21:31:57 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 251) : Yes there is a referral system in Varsity Cup where a try can be reviewed.. It will help, but some errors, don’t lead directly to a try, but can influence the flow of the game.

  • Comment 260, posted at 01.03.15 21:32:19 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 248) : That I agree with…there was inconsistency…

  • Comment 261, posted at 01.03.15 21:33:20 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 258) : Clearly would not have helped

  • Comment 262, posted at 01.03.15 21:33:20 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 257) : You can keep the steak if you guys just give us Willie le Roux. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 263, posted at 01.03.15 21:35:23 by Ben Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 243) :

    I’d like to see 2 referees with a writ to blow the whistle to the letter of the laws, but I don’t think it has much chance to be implemented.
    Many powerful voices (kiwis) want to see the game to “flow” more and are thus happy with the status quo of “flexible interpretations”.

  • Comment 264, posted at 01.03.15 21:35:23 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 257) : I’ve had a harder time on Superbru…though this week I got 5 out of 7 right…

  • Comment 265, posted at 01.03.15 21:36:03 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 258) : Yup, exactly what I said in a later comment. It will be down to the subjective opinion of the TMO.

  • Comment 266, posted at 01.03.15 21:37:06 by Ben Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 260) : Anf of course it won’t help in cases where the TMO to whom decision are referred makes a mistake…

  • Comment 267, posted at 01.03.15 21:37:41 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 263) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 268, posted at 01.03.15 21:38:23 by pastorshark Reply
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  • I must say, Naas and Mallet really did highlight the fact that the officials errors were critical to the Sharks,

  • Comment 269, posted at 01.03.15 21:38:42 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 267) : Exactly. Back to square one in that case then.

  • Comment 270, posted at 01.03.15 21:39:43 by Ben Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 269) : Naas admitted it? What has run over his life??? ;)

  • Comment 271, posted at 01.03.15 21:40:45 by Ben Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 269) : Pretty much all the reports have mentioned that…

  • Comment 272, posted at 01.03.15 21:42:17 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 271) : Yup, must say Naas said it as it was.

  • Comment 273, posted at 01.03.15 21:46:30 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 264) : I’m sure the Kiwis are happy with the status quo but to describe the current state of rugby as free flowing is rather strange. The number of reset scrums alone in some games disproves that idea not even to mention that most teams consider it safer to simply hoof the ball downfield resulting in the boring ariel ping-pong we’re so often witness to these days.

    Perhaps I misunderstand what they mean by those comments?

  • Comment 274, posted at 01.03.15 21:47:17 by vanmartin Reply
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  • In any case the decisions and the score stand. We need to move on now.

    Two tough SA derbies waiting in Cape Town and Bloem, and then the high flying Chiefs at home.

    The Sharks need to add some variation on attack, and our defensive system needs a good looking at.

  • Comment 275, posted at 01.03.15 21:47:39 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • Naas said, “What’s your problem…it was only 3 metres forward!” :mrgreen:

  • Comment 276, posted at 01.03.15 21:48:00 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Good debate lads. I should probably turn in for now. It is quickly approaching 3 in the morning here.

  • Comment 277, posted at 01.03.15 21:48:31 by Ben Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 274) : The scrum bit was especially bad in the Lions vs Stormers game!

  • Comment 278, posted at 01.03.15 21:49:48 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 278) : Woeful.

  • Comment 279, posted at 01.03.15 21:50:44 by Ben Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 275) : Yeah…the SA conference looks to be tight…but we could be out of it by the time those three games are done if we don’t show some improvement in several areas…

  • Comment 280, posted at 01.03.15 21:51:40 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 276) : That sounds about right. :lol:

  • Comment 281, posted at 01.03.15 21:51:59 by Ben Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 275) : Agree, that’s why I posted a team further up that I would like to see against the Stormers, of course depending on possible injuries or not.

  • Comment 282, posted at 01.03.15 21:52:14 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 277) : Good night…sleep in the glow of Blues Cup glory!! :lol:

  • Comment 283, posted at 01.03.15 21:53:04 by pastorshark Reply
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  • I’m sure Rob will be glad about the traffic on here tonight…

  • Comment 284, posted at 01.03.15 21:56:32 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Physics dictates that pretty much all balls travel forward when passed.

    Perhaps the IRB can commission a scientist / engineer to calculate the most likely / average (due to different running speeds and gaps between players) distance the a ball can travel forward when passed sideways by a player moving at e.g. 7 – 8 m/s, and simply simplify the rule to:
    - player that is passed to must be behind the passer when the ball leaves his hands
    - ball must reach him within x meters measured in the forward direction

  • Comment 285, posted at 01.03.15 21:57:11 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • I’m turning in too. Thanks for the lively debate everyone. Best part about any loss is that the sun still rises the next day and life miraculously moves on :)

  • Comment 286, posted at 01.03.15 21:57:24 by vanmartin Reply
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  • The Irish were pretty impressive tonight…

  • Comment 287, posted at 01.03.15 21:57:29 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 286) : This is true…

  • Comment 288, posted at 01.03.15 21:58:40 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 283) : That will assure some very sweet dreams tonight. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 289, posted at 01.03.15 22:00:01 by Ben Reply
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  • Do you think they could develop software like hawkeye that can work out speeds, and acceptable forward movement etc. To be used to make such decision…? :lol:

  • Comment 290, posted at 01.03.15 22:00:24 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 289) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 291, posted at 01.03.15 22:01:03 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 248) :

    I looked at that one just now and the difference was that it was not clear how the ball came loose and it was not clear that Marcel Coetzee grounded it after it crossed the line.

  • Comment 292, posted at 01.03.15 22:02:13 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 289) : I suppose it’s too optimistic to dream of Newcastle United winning a trophy anytime soon! :lol:

  • Comment 293, posted at 01.03.15 22:02:26 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 290) : Maybe they can introduce snicko too, to determine whether a player has touched the ball or not. :lol:

  • Comment 294, posted at 01.03.15 22:04:35 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 294) : Hahaha!

  • Comment 295, posted at 01.03.15 22:06:41 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 293) : A bit too optimistic, yes. But maybe again in your lifetime mate. Don’t you dare give up hope. ;) :mrgreen:

  • Comment 296, posted at 01.03.15 22:08:14 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 296) : Never…
    And if they don’t win anything, I won’t stop supporting them…

  • Comment 297, posted at 01.03.15 22:12:30 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 297) : Good on you mate. I’ve been supporting Chelsea since 1998. We weren’t that great back then. ;)

  • Comment 298, posted at 01.03.15 22:15:21 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 298) : Although Gianfranco Zola is one of my all time favourites.

  • Comment 299, posted at 01.03.15 22:16:37 by Ben Reply
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  • I’ve been supporting Newcastle since…well, since I can remember…late 80′s…at that stage our golden years lay just ahead…ah, Keegan, Beardsley…those were the days! :lol:

  • Comment 300, posted at 01.03.15 22:17:58 by pastorshark Reply
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  • 300 up…

  • Comment 301, posted at 01.03.15 22:20:41 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 300) : I really just started watching football in 98. I was still very young. Blue was my favourite colour and I liked the Chelsea crest. So I picked them. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 302, posted at 01.03.15 22:22:22 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 300) : Alan Shearer is a Newcastle legend. Have you seen a movie called ‘Goal’?

  • Comment 303, posted at 01.03.15 22:23:50 by Ben Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 285) :

    In the case of Kriel’s pass, Hougaard was behind him and Kriel stayed inline with the ball until it was caught, so according to the momentum principle, it was not forward.

    My understanding on the TMO instructions are that they must only rule forward passes when they are absolutely sure.

    Considering that, the TV camera angle was poor, the referee was inline and had no problem with it and the original query was about the “foot in touch”, the ruling was appropriate.

  • Comment 304, posted at 01.03.15 22:24:26 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 303) : Absolutely…it is in my dvd collection!

  • Comment 305, posted at 01.03.15 22:25:17 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 305) : Good movie that!

  • Comment 306, posted at 01.03.15 22:26:59 by Ben Reply
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  • I’m out for reals now. Cheers lads.

  • Comment 307, posted at 01.03.15 22:27:37 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 305) : One more thing. Don’t know if you saw all of them. Number 1 and 2 were good, but number 3 was absolute shite! :)

  • Comment 308, posted at 01.03.15 22:29:59 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 308) : The first one being the best by far!

  • Comment 309, posted at 01.03.15 22:30:49 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 306) : Plus Newcastle wins stuff!!

  • Comment 310, posted at 01.03.15 22:42:33 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 309) : Agreed…

  • Comment 311, posted at 01.03.15 22:43:23 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 307) : Cheers…

  • Comment 312, posted at 01.03.15 22:44:27 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 308) : Yeah, got 2 as well…but not 3…

  • Comment 313, posted at 01.03.15 23:10:37 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Rob write an article about who’s controlling SA rugby… That “broederbond” we never want to talk about?iknow as sharks supporters we all hurt after yesterday. But seriously, we love this game. How can we allow dubious officiating to go by just like that? Money talks boys.

  • Comment 314, posted at 02.03.15 00:11:22 by jason X Reply

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  • @pastorshark (Comment 313) : Don’t even bother getting number 3.

  • Comment 315, posted at 02.03.15 03:26:04 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 313) : It’s a low budget rip off.

  • Comment 316, posted at 02.03.15 03:26:31 by Ben Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 304) : I agree on 1, however IMO you are allowing a lot leeway for momentum there

  • Comment 317, posted at 02.03.15 07:05:50 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 45) :

    It would be great if a “unbiased” viewer could go watch this game again and subtract the points in penalties which should not have been given. I also saw a few where the Bulls should not have been penalized. There was one of Trevor Nyakana, but none of those took place in an area of the field where the Sharks could directly score points of. Granted, that specific penalty would have given the Bulls a scoring opportunity.

    I was seething by the second call against Marcell, because I already knew the Sharks would have to beat the Bulls and a bad ref and predicted that one of his bad calls would decide the match.

    When Hougaard kicked a poor kick from the base of his ruck that did not go 10m, Bjorn Basson, from an onside position contested the ball, but Deon Stegman who never retreated out of the 10m area played the loose ball, maybe the most obvious penalty of them all, Bissie asked the ref to have a look at it, but the ref just said, 11 played the ball and was onside. Bissie informed him, no it was 6, but the ref just showed him away.

    With 2 minutes to go, that would have been a penalty from where Hougaard kicked the ball, and the way Lambie was kicking it on the night, I have no doubt we would have had the lead with 30 seconds left and the Bulls to take the kick-off.

    I would pay you to go and watch this game again and make a note of ALL the wrong calls made by the ref. And not just the penalties he gave, but the ones he didn’t as well.

  • Comment 318, posted at 02.03.15 08:00:49 by Letgo Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 304) :

    As far as I remember, Hougaard was in front of Kriel by the time he caught it, even though Kriel was still moving forward all the time.

    That pass went 3m forward. Do the mathematical calculations. I doubt very much that a pass of that distance, by a player moving diagonally towards the player he is passing to and slowing down before he passes, would have gone forward that much had he passed it backwards in the first place.

    BTW, I’m sick and tired of these guesses. No clear and obvious evidence that the hands went forward??? Every ref sees it differently and next week we’ll pass a ball that “drifts” 2m and it will be given forward.

    Why not get some smart guys to measure the average speed a pass is made at and then calculate the maximum drift that could be allowed on passes of various distances and give the players 50% of that. That way, there will be a rule across the board and players will know, if I make a pass of 5m I am allowed 2m drift, a pass of 2m though, only a foot drift.

    I’m really tired of this guess work and the calls always seems to go against us.

  • Comment 319, posted at 02.03.15 08:08:01 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 319) : Exactly – take the guessing about direction of hands out of it.

  • Comment 320, posted at 02.03.15 08:11:43 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 292) : Again we see this differently – I guess depending on the tint of the glasses we are looking through.

  • Comment 321, posted at 02.03.15 08:17:42 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 137) :

    No Deon Stegman played the ball and could not have been made onside, as he had to retreat from within 10m of where the ball would have landed. If the ball was kicked more than 10m he would have been made onside by Basson advancing past him, but according to the rules a player who is in front of a kick must move at least 10 metres away from any opponent who is waiting to receive the ball.

  • Comment 322, posted at 02.03.15 08:23:19 by Letgo Reply
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  • Yes the TMO and ref had a few howlers but Bulls deserved the win. The Sharks are where the Bulls were about a year and a half a ago in terms of gameplan and combinations. Its too predictable and combos not gelling. U dont need any video analysis to tell what the Sharks will do every game. Its predictable and easy to defend. Until they start mixing it up between forwards and backs receiving the ball we will have more of these results im afraid. But there is always hope

  • Comment 323, posted at 02.03.15 08:27:07 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @fyndraai (Comment 183) :

    Deon Stegman had to be moving away from the ball in the first instance to be put on side, the fact is that he never did, he was always moving towards the ball and then played it. Had he immediately moved backwards, then he would have been able to move forward after Basson made him onside.

  • Comment 324, posted at 02.03.15 08:32:57 by Letgo Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 212) :

    Did we complain about the ref when we lost against the Cheetahs in round 1. We are complaining about the ref, because he was crap. I was complaining about him before there was any points on the board. His first few calls was already way off. I knew we were going to be in for a long night.

    I don’t blame bias either and I like this ref, I remember him having a few decent games. This was not his night though and I think if we have an opportunity to ask him and other refs they will agree with us.

    Why would we be upset if the calls went for us? Although, I believe we have in the past on this site had long discussion after games we had lost, when the ref had a terrible game, which spoiled the spectacle.

  • Comment 325, posted at 02.03.15 08:40:37 by Letgo Reply
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  • Good morning! :twisted:

  • Comment 326, posted at 02.03.15 08:44:51 by Morné Reply
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  • @RuckingFun (Comment 6) : So Hoerskool Waterkloof has finally made a meaningful contribution to Northern Transvaal / Blue Bulls rugby. :twisted:

  • Comment 327, posted at 02.03.15 08:45:09 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • Time to move on from the blame game…

    Useless officiating is now part of the game, we weren’t the first team affected by it, and we most definitely will not be the last.

  • Comment 328, posted at 02.03.15 08:45:35 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • Whats all this bleeding hearts, namby pamby, politically correct crap you guys are engaging the apoligists with. Call a spade a spade – the Sharks were shafted by a bunch of incompetent, biased tools. We know it and they know it.

    Rant over. Now be nice with each other.

  • Comment 329, posted at 02.03.15 08:50:24 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 285) :

    I agree with that. There should be a set standard or one should simply not allow for drifting. Players then need to pass backwards regardless of the drift.

    If you look at the Hougaard pass, you will see that Hougaard is very flat and Kriel slows down before he passes, so Hougaard over-runs him, therefore Kriel had to adjust and make the forward pass. It would never have been a pass if Kriel had to make a legal pass, as the ball would have had to be passed behind Hougaard, who did not time his run right.

  • Comment 330, posted at 02.03.15 08:52:52 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 326) : Good moaning as officer Crabtree would say in ‘Allo ‘Allo.

  • Comment 331, posted at 02.03.15 08:52:53 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 328) : Well if teams are going to be shafted out of 17 points in games then this game (rugby) may as well close up shop sooner rather than later. Supporter numbers are already plummeting, crap like this cant help.

  • Comment 332, posted at 02.03.15 08:55:48 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • Bad refereeing yes. Laughable TMO yes. But also some really bad defensive slip ups and some issues we have to sort out. Scrums were not impressive at all. Mauls just could not get off the ground. Kanko making really stupid decision to engage when he was not allowed to. Jannie committing to a tackle after the man had let the ball go. He cost us a try and even if it didn’t happen we would have been penalized for a late tackle, really an amateur move. Reinach placed a lot of unnecessary pressure on our defensive line with bad kicking decisions. All in all many things conspiring to our loss including ourselves. Last point, Thomas needs to start not Chadwick. Anyone want to offer an opinion on Esterhuizen’s performance?

  • Comment 333, posted at 02.03.15 09:13:02 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 332) : Never was a truer word said in jest,but do the math it just brought a lot of copiuos blue bums back to a lot of would have been empty seats at Loftus,for the next home game.

  • Comment 334, posted at 02.03.15 09:16:32 by The hound Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 328) :

    I’m sorry, but I don’t think we should just except bad officiating as part of the game.

    The Cheetahs loss hurt, but it was a fair loss. We looked at the Sharks’game and we moved on. This is a bitter pill to swallow … AND I don’t believe that the Sharks deserved to lose.

    I thought we played a smart game and were dominating. In the first half our line-outs struggled, but we actually turned it around in the second half (once we managed to get Victor Matfield out of our team huddles – unsportsmanlike). I also agreed with the kicking strategy, especially after the first few penalties, as I felt the ref would keep us out of the game even more, if we played with the ball too much.

    I also don’t think the ref was as bad in the second half, but then, the Sharks did to a large degree stop to contest the ball (which was obviously a massive part of our game plan, but we had to play to the ref).

    I was also not sure that the Bulls disruption of our malls were 100% legal, the ref never gave us a penalty in this area, but I cannot say that he was wrong, the Bulls were just clearly stronger than us in this area.

    I thought the ref had a bad day, specifically at the rucks – he blew the Sharks up for legitimate steals, while Deon Stegman also got a few against them, I felt that Stegmans execution was indeed wrong and he was rightfully penalized (as far as I could see on every occasion). Trever Nyakane and Adriaan Struass, were the ones that caused us trouble in this area a few times, where the ref called it wrong in our favor.

    I also felt he didn’t look after the defending team enough, as I felt there were a few occasions of blatant sealing off that he did not call.

    I understand that players are given leeway in this area. When you clean a player out of the ruck, you are allowed to go of your feet, as long as you come through the gate. If you are the first arriving player though, you need to stay on your feet. Players tend to grab hold of their player on the ground and while standing on their feet go as low as possible to their tackled player. I felt that the Bulls at the ruck, were given to much leeway, as an attacking team. There were to many instances of players going of their feet and only then getting up forming the bridge I described above.

    They also came from all sides to clean our players and on more than one occasion played the guys from beyond the ruck.

    I don’t think Jaco is a bad guy or even a bad ref. It seemed as though he decided to be extra harsh on defenders and lenient on attackers right from the start, referees are allowed to do this (whether I agree with this is not the point right now), the point is, his execution on the day was bad and there was no way for this to be corrected until the end of the game, where we will no doubt (or at least have in the past) see an apology for the bad calls he made.

    Firstly, I feel the laws should be simplified and interpretations should be kept absolutely to the minimum. Anything that is up for debate, even after a video review, is to complicated or not clear enough yet. It ruins the spectacle (I have spoken to many a rugby lover, who does not watch rugby anymore, as they cannot take games determined by a poor ref, regardless of whether they support one of the teams or not).

    Secondly, I feel there should be more assistance for the match referee and that he should not necessarily have the final say, as it seems,even when TV refs and assistant refs disagree with the main ref, they have to only guide him and cannot directly disagree with his call. These days you hear TV refs say, what do you think, do you want me to play it for you again. We have 4 refs on the field, while we are making a big call, why not give all of them a say.

    I have also sometimes wondered if a ref rotation, every 20 minutes, wouldn’t help – Or even less than 20min. So you assign 3 on-field refs for the game and the tv ref (maybe a second here would help, although I feel the on field refs should make the decision with the tv ref, so a second would not really be needed, unless we are looking for a vote, in which case a 5th ref would break the tie) The 3 on-field refs are rotated between the 3 roles all the time during the game, with none of them dictating the final decision. This way it’s a team effort.

    And lastly, there should be a decent challenge system. I have a few concerns with this though, because I have a feeling, as it stands now, with how calls are interpreted, rather than decided on a clear and simple law, Captains will challenge and loose a challenge, while the call in question might be very contentious and could have gone either way. Then later on, an obvious call will go against that captain, without any challenges to correct it (much as it is happening in Cricket to my consternation) – obvious wrong decisions should never be allowed. Move play back to that instance and correct the call. Call the batsman back to the crease, or even if a few balls have already been bowled give the batsman out (even if the on-field team did not challenge) – He is out he should not be batting anymore. He is not out, he should still be at the crease – simple. Same with any incorrect call made by a ref. While the Bulls were taking there penalty, the replay of the Stegman not retreating out of the 10m was shown – if this by law should be a penalty for the Sharks, why can play not be called back by the TV ref?

    I don’t want a captain to be able to challenge any number of times he wants, but I want a captain to be able to challenge at any time (even after having made unsuccessful challenges), with a fair consequence system for unsuccessful challenges.

    There is no reason just to accept these things. Maybe I shouldn’t bring it up here and yes, rugby is just a sport, so it is not nearly as important, but if we just accept the flaws or wrongdoings in our society, where would certain people still be today – watch the movie Selma, I think there is a few people that would disagree with your comment.

    There is now reason to just accept bad refereeing as part of the game. In fact, I would go as far as to say, all players, coaches and for that matter referees, should actively be working on getting it out of the game.

    It really does spoil it. Not just when my team is playing btw – I’m just more passionate about it when it happens to the Sharks.

  • Comment 335, posted at 02.03.15 09:43:25 by Letgo Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 333) : Most of what you say I agree with…though, to be fair, there were apparently only three scrums in the entire game, so mayne the scrum comment is a bit harsh…

  • Comment 336, posted at 02.03.15 09:50:42 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 333) :

    It’s really hard to look critically at the Sharks in a game like this. Yes, agreed on all points, but even while those things were weak, there were enough good points that kept us in a game where I thought the ref had a massive influence in keeping us out of it.

    I am just proud of how the boys kept their heads down and stuck to it under very bad circumstances. I believe they knew they were on the wrong side of the calls very early on, but it didn’t seem to deter them. Marcell just started to stay away from the rucks a little more and I thought we played a good game.

    Esterhuizen had a strong game. Our possession stats were a little low to judge our backs, but he was solid.

    I thought all our guys played well, even Reinach who has come through a little criticism here.

  • Comment 337, posted at 02.03.15 09:50:58 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 335) :
    I think you just wrote the longest comment in the history of Sharksworld (and possibly the internet). :wink:

  • Comment 338, posted at 02.03.15 09:52:13 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 335) : Write an article about it, why don’t you? :twisted:

  • Comment 339, posted at 02.03.15 09:53:16 by Ben Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 338) : That is not a comment – it is an essay

  • Comment 340, posted at 02.03.15 09:59:58 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 336) : Maybe my expectations were a little high after seeing what we could do to the lions scrum outfit (which is rated higher than the bulls) I think we should have totally dominated scrum time. I see we are still a little cautious to start Thomas instead of Chadwick and I can’t figure out why? As for the mauls I think we didn’t do enough and I will stick by that. I saw one good maul where bissie almost singlehandedly started and kept the momentum going. If he could do it that well in that maul self then the rest should gone that way too. Kanko swimming over the top and engaging…that was plain stupid. I’m not saying we did everything wrong and if the oficiating was a bit better the result would have been different. I’m just saying that we should take what we can from this match, even if its not points. We may be more fortunate with competent refs and TMO’s in the future but we must fix those niggles….

  • Comment 341, posted at 02.03.15 10:01:06 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @pastorshark (Comment 336) :

    I didn’t even realise about the scrums. There should have been one more scrum though ;-)

    Just goes to show how low our error rate was. The only area I was really disappointing with, was the line-outs. Although, like I said, after we got Victor Matfield out of our team huddles (unsportsmanlike), we seemed to find our feet at line-out time and even stole a couple of theirs.

    We couldn’t disrupt their maul though and though I thought they should have been penalized for illegally disrupting our maul a few times, I have to admit that I was seeing red about the calls the ref was making at ruck time and could have been wrong about this. I haven’t working up the courage to watch the game again.

    So negatives in this game for me:

    Line-outs
    Mauls
    Lapses of defense, especially around the ruck
    Still not enough playing with the ball when we are in the right areas
    Clearance from out of 22 (Reinach, but also Andre who did not kick out leading to Hougaards try) – have to say our follow up and organizing of defense from that kick was also a concern.

    Positives:

    Cool Heads
    Fighting spirit (getting the lead and a position to win)
    Control of the game by Lambie (would, could, should have won it for us).
    Contact area (excellent starting of with those steals, we also protected our ball really well).
    Attacking Kicks were really accurate (just maybe used too much).
    Kankowski’s try (vision showed by players involved).
    SP Marais form (really happy about this).
    PSTD return and continued rise to the top.

  • Comment 342, posted at 02.03.15 10:03:11 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 338) : @Ben (Comment 339) : @Bokhoring (Comment 340) :

    Sorry :smile:

    Just so upset when people say. Lets just accept that bad officiating is part of the game.

  • Comment 343, posted at 02.03.15 10:05:31 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 343) : … And there is no reason we should accept it. If something is wrong, we should always find a way to make it right… and there is plenty of things that could be done.

  • Comment 344, posted at 02.03.15 10:08:26 by Letgo Reply
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  • besides jaco v Heerden’s obvious affiliation with Bulls Rugby, did anyone know that TMO Johan Greeff is the fucking vice chairman of the Bulls Referees Society? I say lay an official complaint and try to get these cheaters out of the game before they do more damage!

  • Comment 345, posted at 02.03.15 10:09:00 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 345) :

    That’s not the solution. They will have more bad days when not officiating for the Bulls and others refs will still do the same.

    The system and the way decisions are made allowed too much for interpretation. You will see that referees will react and half will say they were right and a little more than half will say they were wrong. ;-)

    I don’t believe refs make bad calls on purpose. I just don’t.

  • Comment 346, posted at 02.03.15 10:14:33 by Letgo Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 345) : And send that linesman, that called for a review for a foot in touch on the Bulls first “try”, for an eye test, pronto. That player was nowhere near the touch line and the TJ was right on the spot.

  • Comment 347, posted at 02.03.15 10:15:24 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • Well what a disappointing loss :sad: . I agree the ref got quite a few decisions wrong as well as the tmo. But the 2 tries the bulls scored where they just ran through close to the ruck area irritated me even more. What the hell is going on with our defense boys :cry: ?
    Other than that we never gave up fighting which was good to see but alas it wasn’t meant to be.

    Our next 2 games will be even tougher, Stormers and Cheetahs away – eish..

  • Comment 348, posted at 02.03.15 10:15:54 by RedSharkUtd82 Reply

    RedSharkUtd82Super Rugby player
     
  • @fyndraai (Comment 304) : Umm…no. Firstly, the beautiful line in the grass due to mowing gives a beautiful reference point that helps to negate most of the problems re: camera angle and the trajectory of the ball. Secondly, concerning the position of Kriel in relation to the ball, the actual camera angle would make it look better for Kriel than it in fact is (i.e. Better for Kriel than what you would see with a camera that was in line with the action). Even given that, it is clear that Kriel let’s go of the ball roughly a metre before the line in the grass. By the time Kriel reaches the line, the ball is already comfortably in front of the line…i.e. in front of Kriel. That means that even taking momentum into account, it must have been a forward pass…
    Anyway, history is history…I’m going to end my input to all this now…
    Next stop: Cape Town…

  • Comment 349, posted at 02.03.15 10:16:27 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 341) : Agreed…

  • Comment 350, posted at 02.03.15 10:18:08 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 342) : Agreed again…

  • Comment 351, posted at 02.03.15 10:19:47 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 345) : I pointed it out earlier in the thread. While I won’t take the leap to say that he cheated, I just think it’s not a good idea to do this…

  • Comment 352, posted at 02.03.15 10:21:41 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @RedSharkUtd82 (Comment 348) : And then the Chiefs in Durban…
    The time to turn this around is now…

  • Comment 353, posted at 02.03.15 10:23:47 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 343) : Because not accepting bad officiating changes the outcome of the game, and future outcome of games? :roll:

    We complained about Bryce Lawrence in 2011, he finally fell on his sword and retired from all forms of refereeing…yet nothing changed.

    Sorry to say, but for every referee demoted for poor officiating, there are probably another five more-inept refs waiting to take his place.

  • Comment 354, posted at 02.03.15 10:24:19 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 354) :

    Actually we now have a review system, which I think are still flawed, but still has made some difference.

    It won’t change the result, but hopefully it will help that future outcomes will not be influence by a bad ref.

    Just accepting it though, will without any doubt, not change anything at all, in fact, it will only support the continued bad officiating of games.

  • Comment 355, posted at 02.03.15 10:32:54 by Letgo Reply
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  • @RedSharkUtd82 (Comment 348) : Trust me, we are going to absolutely kill the Stormers and Cheetahs! I think johan greeff woke a sleeping giant.

  • Comment 356, posted at 02.03.15 10:35:57 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 354) :

    How do you think change happens?

    By saying, oh well, that’s just part of life – that’s just part of the game?

    Or, by saying, there is no way we are going to stand for this?

    Bryce Laurence should not have been fired. Yes, he should have been penalized, but the system is the first problem. He’s not the only one that has effected games like that. So does the problem lie with the individual, or the system?

    We should be questioning the rules and regulations and how the refs are being asked to apply it, not the refs themselves.

    Lets see what happens. I am determined to affect change.

  • Comment 357, posted at 02.03.15 10:36:48 by Letgo Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 356) : we are too good not to. I for one am not worried about the season one bit, just extremely angry…

  • Comment 358, posted at 02.03.15 10:37:16 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 356) :

    Lets hope so.

    That would at least give us one positive to take from what the refs did in that game.

  • Comment 359, posted at 02.03.15 10:37:35 by Letgo Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 356) : that would certainly be the right way to respond to this

  • Comment 360, posted at 02.03.15 10:51:54 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 360) :

    And Rob, based on how our boys responded on the field, I certainly feel like we have it in us to do it.

  • Comment 361, posted at 02.03.15 10:54:27 by Letgo Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 360) : @Letgo (Comment 361) : much like AB and the boys responded to the Melbourne massacre

  • Comment 362, posted at 02.03.15 10:58:12 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 355) :

    “Every solution breeds new problems.” – Arthur Bloch

    For every rule in the rugby rule book, they’ve probably had to create another five to “undo” the flaws created by the previous.

    Same goes for officiating….we’ve got T.M.O, assistant referees, big screens, slow-mo – yet we’ve gone from bad to worse, they’ll have to throw more technology at the game, which will effectively slow the game down to a start-stop affair, causing people to stop watching rugby.

  • Comment 363, posted at 02.03.15 11:00:41 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @pastorshark (Comment 353) : yes no better time than now ;-)

    @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 356) : look we have the players to do just that – lets hope it happens :mrgreen:

  • Comment 364, posted at 02.03.15 11:01:07 by RedSharkUtd82 Reply

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  • Almost 400. Keep it up ladies and gentlemen. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 365, posted at 02.03.15 11:21:23 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 365) : We…

  • Comment 366, posted at 02.03.15 11:57:05 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 365) : …will…

  • Comment 367, posted at 02.03.15 11:57:37 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 365) : …surely…

  • Comment 368, posted at 02.03.15 11:58:16 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 365) : …get…

  • Comment 369, posted at 02.03.15 11:59:00 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 365) : …there!

  • Comment 370, posted at 02.03.15 11:59:32 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 356) : Come on men!

  • Comment 371, posted at 02.03.15 12:02:06 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 365) : @pastorshark (Comment 366) : @pastorshark (Comment 367) : …sukkel..

  • Comment 372, posted at 02.03.15 12:03:22 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Th problem regarding refereeing is certainly a complex one…
    1. On the one hand there will always be human error on the part of the refs…
    2. And the authorities do have to protect referees to a degree, as huge amounts of pressure are pit on them and without some protection we’ll end up not finding anyone who is prepared to do it…
    3. Yet blatant issues do have to be addressed.
    I still think that the laws should be some simplified as much as possible so that as little subjective interpretation as possible is needed. I get that it won’t be completely possible, but it should be attempted. As an example I still think there should just be a basic rule that the ball is not allowed to travel forward at all from a pass…so the players have to pass far enough back,so that the ball doesn’t travel forward from them due to momentum versus a straight line.

  • Comment 373, posted at 02.03.15 12:09:27 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 370) : Too late. Give it up. Surrender to the inevitable. :twisted:

  • Comment 374, posted at 02.03.15 12:12:53 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 374) : never! :twisted:

  • Comment 375, posted at 02.03.15 12:18:06 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 374) : Oh dear…

  • Comment 376, posted at 02.03.15 12:22:31 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 373) : If there is a standard of how far the ball is allowed to drift, I don’t mind, but nothing more than one or maybe 2 meters at most. If not, I feel the players should just understand that the ball will drift and pass further backwards to allow for the drift, so that player catching, never receives the ball in front of where it was passed.

  • Comment 377, posted at 02.03.15 12:23:33 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 374) : I supported the Sharks in the B-section days, sitting with my dad at Woodburn stadium watching the boys play South-Eastern Transvaal…I never give up! :lol:

  • Comment 378, posted at 02.03.15 12:24:27 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 376) : 23

  • Comment 379, posted at 02.03.15 12:24:50 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 379) : 20

  • Comment 380, posted at 02.03.15 12:25:21 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 377) : The latter is what I am advocating…

  • Comment 381, posted at 02.03.15 12:25:22 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Yeah, I can’t see why not. I wonder if guys playing in the 80′s/90′s and before that were allowed to drift their passes forward?

  • Comment 382, posted at 02.03.15 12:26:57 by Letgo Reply
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  • 17… almost there.

  • Comment 383, posted at 02.03.15 12:27:50 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 382) : We weren’t allowed to at school…they do it because they are allowed to do it…just define it like that, finished…

  • Comment 384, posted at 02.03.15 12:29:46 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 383) : Let’s keep it going…15…

  • Comment 385, posted at 02.03.15 12:30:25 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 381) : Unless there is a science to it we’re guessing. We don’t even have scientific proof that it is possible for a player to run fast enough to effect that much drift on a ball.

    I know the science of it, the forward momentum of the ball in the running players hands will have a forward effect on a laterally passed ball, but what about the speed of the pass? If the speed of the pass is equal of the player at release, it will largely cancelled out the speed of the player.

  • Comment 386, posted at 02.03.15 12:33:03 by Letgo Reply
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  • But I will be fine with it if they put more science to it and a clear rule of how officials should rule it. Because right now we’re asking them to guess. Their allowed drift. Now look at their hands and make a guess. Not to mention that if they are looking at the players hands instead of point of release, which would tell you a lot more than direction of hands.

  • Comment 387, posted at 02.03.15 12:36:10 by Letgo Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 385) : 12

  • Comment 388, posted at 02.03.15 12:36:43 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 387) : …12…

  • Comment 389, posted at 02.03.15 12:38:44 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 385) : So what did you do after the game? I decided not to take up drinking. So I just went to watch a movie with my sister.

  • Comment 390, posted at 02.03.15 12:39:28 by Letgo Reply
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  • Sorry, my mistake…10…@pastorshark (Comment 389) :

  • Comment 391, posted at 02.03.15 12:39:35 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 390) : I did take up drinkng!! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 392, posted at 02.03.15 12:40:37 by pastorshark Reply
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  • there cant be such bullshit in a sport “the ball drifted forward” give me a break!!
    If a flyhalf takes a kickoff and the ball travels past the 10 meter, and the wind blows it back behind the halfline, does the same idiocy apply?? “no ref, it was a perfectly good kickoff, its just that it “drifted” back!!!!
    Bullshit bullshit bullshit

  • Comment 393, posted at 02.03.15 12:41:43 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 379) : @Letgo (Comment 380) : @pastorshark (Comment 385) : @Letgo (Comment 388) : @pastorshark (Comment 389) : Now that is called cheating. Plain and simple! :mrgreen: :lol:

  • Comment 394, posted at 02.03.15 12:42:15 by Ben Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 386) : Nope. The sideways speed (pass) cannot cancel the forward speed (player momentum) – at least not the true sideways component of the pass. They will combine to give the ball a path at an angle.

  • Comment 395, posted at 02.03.15 12:42:29 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 390) : Big Eyes. Nice movie. Got the bitter taste out of my mouth. Got my mind of rugby. Kind of… directly after that movie I told my sister, Lambie would have slotted that penalty and made it 10/10 for the match.

  • Comment 396, posted at 02.03.15 12:42:36 by Letgo Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 392) : And then subjected myself to watching 539 scrum penalties in the Stormers, Lions game…

  • Comment 397, posted at 02.03.15 12:42:45 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 396) : That’s what I said to my wife…

  • Comment 398, posted at 02.03.15 12:43:47 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 393) : Not really relevant, but I love your enthusiasm! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 399, posted at 02.03.15 12:43:59 by Ben Reply
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  • …1…

  • Comment 400, posted at 02.03.15 12:44:17 by pastorshark Reply
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  • 400!

  • Comment 401, posted at 02.03.15 12:44:21 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 392) : I considered it.

  • Comment 402, posted at 02.03.15 12:44:51 by Letgo Reply
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  • Woohooooo!!!

  • Comment 403, posted at 02.03.15 12:44:52 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 393) : By the way. I’ve been wondering for a while. What’s up with your nickname? Care to elaborate?

  • Comment 404, posted at 02.03.15 12:46:47 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 394) : I call us team players!!

  • Comment 405, posted at 02.03.15 12:46:52 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 399) : :grin: Just trying to make sense of this “act of God” drifting logic the ref was using

  • Comment 406, posted at 02.03.15 12:47:03 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 403) : Teamwork

  • Comment 407, posted at 02.03.15 12:48:09 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 404) : I can tell, but then Id have to kill you :twisted:

  • Comment 408, posted at 02.03.15 12:48:32 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 395) : That’s right…make it all as simple as possible…the ball is not allowed to travel forward!

  • Comment 409, posted at 02.03.15 12:48:36 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Okay, now 500.

  • Comment 410, posted at 02.03.15 12:49:22 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 404) : I wish I had a cool reason, but long story short. I was sitting with my laptop on the couch messing around the site while watching us play the Windies some years ago.
    Also I was having a Wonderful Incredible Castle Beer

  • Comment 411, posted at 02.03.15 12:50:18 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 409) : In that case a player at speed needs to pass the ball backwards at an angle to compensate for momentum. I am not sure how many of our backs can actually do that nowadays

  • Comment 412, posted at 02.03.15 12:50:49 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 395) : If the sideways movement is at a speed greater than the players forward movement at moment of release. What I’m saying here – surely if you want to adjust a rule to include momentum, some scientific testing should have been done to give us an indication of the degree of drift that is possible under certain circumstance.

  • Comment 413, posted at 02.03.15 12:54:26 by Letgo Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 378) : Let me guess, we won that game 36 – 0. I could be out 10 or 20 points.

  • Comment 414, posted at 02.03.15 12:55:05 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 413) : Yeah – similar to the rules that govern bowling vs. chucking in cricket. It is an entirely feasible proposition IMO.

  • Comment 415, posted at 02.03.15 12:57:58 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 409) : Guys, come on. Leave all the laws as is. They aren’t the issue here. Just don’t appoint morons to be officials next time. Problem solved! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 416, posted at 02.03.15 12:58:12 by Ben Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 411) : All makes sense now, or does it……… :lol:

  • Comment 417, posted at 02.03.15 12:59:15 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 417) : so, how did you come up with Ben?

  • Comment 418, posted at 02.03.15 13:02:33 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 345) :That now is the most frightening fact highlited on this site, how could this ever have been allowed and now coupled with his Decision,Eish

  • Comment 419, posted at 02.03.15 13:06:12 by benji Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 416) : Or is it, what if it is only morons or self flagellating masochists making themselves available for the job.

  • Comment 420, posted at 02.03.15 13:06:45 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 418) : I won’t take credit for it. It came to me in a dream. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 421, posted at 02.03.15 13:15:57 by Ben Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 420) : Well then we have a huge problem at hand! Maybe they can offer refereeing as a subject in normal high schools as well. Not just in the schools for the mentally challenged. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 422, posted at 02.03.15 13:18:10 by Ben Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 414) :

    I’m asking for a standard, because right now the one ref is basically asking the other – “What do you think”?

    Why can’t there be a 1m, 2m, 3m rule.

    Since I don’t believe we can yet determine the speed of a player, or the speed at which a ball was passed. Just use the distance it was passed and give the players a drifting allowance based on that.

    Once the speed of the pass can be determined (which shouldn’t be to hard). Distance of pass and time lapsed would give you that (someone just needs to add it into a program).

    You set a standard based on distance and speed of pass.

    Then work on finding a way of determining speed of player at point of release. This is also distance covered in time lapsed, but that only gives you an average speed, not actual speed at time of release.

  • Comment 423, posted at 02.03.15 13:24:39 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 420) : :grin: :grin: do you reckon the same type who wants to become a ref, has also flirted with the idea of becoming a spietkop?

  • Comment 424, posted at 02.03.15 13:27:14 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 423) : are you being serious? :grin: :grin:

  • Comment 425, posted at 02.03.15 13:28:58 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 425) : I hope not.

  • Comment 426, posted at 02.03.15 13:30:56 by Ben Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 423) : @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 424) : @Ben (Comment 426) : Letgo As soon as they are over mourning the death of Dr Spock, Im going to forward this to Sheldon Cooper and friends, and ask for their help in getting an understandable solution.

  • Comment 427, posted at 02.03.15 14:00:01 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 427) :grin:

  • Comment 428, posted at 02.03.15 14:11:06 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 427) : Sheldon will first have a long monologue about the sillyness of 30 men chasing one ball, when they all can go to Sportman’s Warehouse and each get their own.

  • Comment 429, posted at 02.03.15 14:12:56 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 425) :

    If my comment is so preposterous then allowing a drift without any standard of judging a drift, is outrageous. So we cannot even start to think of a way where it can be determined by fact rather than guess work.

    I thought Kriels pass was way forward even considering drift, the TV ref thought it wasn’t – end of story.

    Outrageous.

    I’m not saying it is even remotely possible, but since it isn’t or if it isn’t, the rule should not be applied, until it is.

    There is no fair and standardized way to determine drift – then do not allow it.

  • Comment 430, posted at 02.03.15 14:32:40 by Letgo Reply
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  • https://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/1792/8327/original.jpg

    Had to paste this here. I don’t know how there is any question.

  • Comment 431, posted at 02.03.15 14:40:48 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 430) : Did you see the video that McLovin posted on here? I think it was on Saturday. It’s regarding the forward pass law.

  • Comment 432, posted at 02.03.15 14:47:33 by Ben Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 431) : My intuition tells me Kriel would have to have been going like a Ferrari to generate that much forward drift over such a short sideway’s distance.

  • Comment 433, posted at 02.03.15 14:49:56 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 432) : It’s on the match-thread. Comment 117

  • Comment 434, posted at 02.03.15 14:54:44 by Ben Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 430) : No I didnt think its preposterous at all, just difficult to implement etc. I say keep it simple. If it goes forward. Its forward. Same goes for high tackle doesnt it? If 7 foot lock tackles 5ft scrumhalf around the neck, its still high. There are no mitigating circumstances. Its high, its forward, its out, its over. easy

  • Comment 435, posted at 02.03.15 14:56:30 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • Solely judging by how long it takes some of them to see the bloody obvious, even with 5 different camera angles available to them in HD, and then still manage to get it wrong – I’ve come to the conclusion that all the worst, thickest refs in the world become TMO’s.

    There must be a reason for this, such as in certain US police precincts where it’s official policy to only employ the low IQ applicants.

  • Comment 436, posted at 02.03.15 15:02:47 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 430) : This has never really been an issue before. But because this has effected you on a personal level, you are reacting to it in an emotional way.

    Nothing wrong with the law as it is. I’m not quoting but it says – A forward pass only occurs when the ball goes forward out of the passer’s hand. You will see this in the video. This is simple enough.

    I’m not saying that Kriel’s pass wasn’t forward. It was because the ball went forward out of his hands. As simple as that. No need to overcomplicate things. ;)

  • Comment 437, posted at 02.03.15 15:04:16 by Ben Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 423) : In my perfect digital world:

    Tmo should be a super computer…player gps + ball gps should be connected to said super computer.

    Trylines, sidelines, dead ball lines, halfway line should all also have sensors….super computer is connected to a special set of stadium lights which goes red when an error was made, or big screen, or virtual reality field screen.

    No reviews, no “going upstairs”….computer is the first and final say.

    Referee is just there as a field technician.

    Only then will we truly be able to have a completely fair game…like the tech being used for cricket, but this needs to happen real-time.

    No more disputes over “daylight”, “entering through the gate”, late- early- off-the ball tackles, holding back, offside etc. will all be monitored by mr Super Computer.

    Somewhere in the future, hopefully not so far far away

  • Comment 438, posted at 02.03.15 15:13:55 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 436) : I thought that rule applied in all police precincts, everywhere? :)

  • Comment 439, posted at 02.03.15 15:20:49 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 439) : No, only the one where Tappe worked, but I was as surprised as you to find out it wasn’t everywhere :mrgreen:

    http://thefreethoughtproject.com/court-police-departments-refuse-hire-smart/

  • Comment 440, posted at 02.03.15 15:23:00 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 438) : I’ve also had fantasies about that. I would love to see the difference between where touch judges think the ball goes out and where it actually does.

  • Comment 441, posted at 02.03.15 15:26:15 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 441) : @FireTheLooser (Comment 438) : the technology already exists to do all that!

  • Comment 442, posted at 02.03.15 15:44:14 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 436) : Just between you and me the Tmo’s don’t have hd screens at most stadiums including loftus

  • Comment 443, posted at 02.03.15 16:00:56 by BR Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 442) : Just sorry for all the by laws a computer ref would crash after 10min, for example the ball can be over the line of touch but if a player inside the playing area catches or taps the ball infield it is not in touch and try this one out a player in touch may touch or tap the ball while he is in touch as long as he doesn’t play(holds or runs with it) it, you could actually score a try while being touch in goal as long as you don’t play the ball and just push it down

  • Comment 444, posted at 02.03.15 16:09:22 by BR Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 412) : Then they have to learn it…it will take out all this bloody debate and subjectivity!

  • Comment 445, posted at 02.03.15 16:10:42 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 441) : 5m difference at the very most if you position yourself right you can easily see where the ball goes out

  • Comment 446, posted at 02.03.15 16:10:44 by BR Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 443) : Didn’t know that, but it’s ridiculous that they don’t. How difficult can it be to feed the same HD signal we watch at home to a 24 inch HD monitor in the TMO’s box?

  • Comment 447, posted at 02.03.15 16:11:54 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 414) : :mrgreen: Ah, the good old days…

  • Comment 448, posted at 02.03.15 16:12:35 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 386) : That test have been done by the IRB and that is why the law was amended

  • Comment 449, posted at 02.03.15 16:12:38 by BR Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 446) : Sometimes it seems a helluva lot more to me. And flyhalves the world over seem to agree :grin:

  • Comment 450, posted at 02.03.15 16:12:59 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 354) : Why don’t you give it a try and let’s see if you are up to scratch

  • Comment 451, posted at 02.03.15 16:14:58 by BR Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 416) : Look, as I see it, the issue is that the way the forward pass law is or is being interpreted at the moment is no simple forward or not, it is a subjective interpretation of what may or may not have been passed backward but drifted forward times the square root of the hypotenuse divided by 37,3…and then maybe it was inconclusive. There is too much there that prevents simple decision making. And even if you have top officials with no issues like which refs association they are the vice chairman of, there will always be bitching about interpretations. Just simplify it all!

  • Comment 452, posted at 02.03.15 16:17:46 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 450) : Fly halfs are looking at it from an angle So are we on the tv ,while a ar is on the line and show me the fly half that won’t try to get a few extra meters :mrgreen:

  • Comment 453, posted at 02.03.15 16:18:07 by BR Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 423) : Like I said yesterday…hawkeye for the player pass combo!! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 454, posted at 02.03.15 16:20:50 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 427) : :lol:

  • Comment 455, posted at 02.03.15 16:22:13 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 430) : That’s my point!!

  • Comment 456, posted at 02.03.15 16:23:49 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 453) : I know – they’re always bitching. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 457, posted at 02.03.15 16:23:50 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 447) : That is the million dollar question but the commentators also don’t have had monitors

  • Comment 458, posted at 02.03.15 16:25:58 by BR Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 454) : And you know the fighting there is over that kind of technology in cricket no thank you

  • Comment 459, posted at 02.03.15 16:27:39 by BR Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 432) : @Bokhoring (Comment 433) : You see, all your differing opinions and pictures and clips and intuitions…kind of confirm my point…any law that can have such a wide range of subjective responses will always cause kak! :lol:

  • Comment 460, posted at 02.03.15 16:27:46 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 435) : Yessss…that’s my point…

  • Comment 461, posted at 02.03.15 16:28:54 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 458) : Hd monitors dam auto correct

  • Comment 462, posted at 02.03.15 16:29:12 by BR Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 435) : And if a guy tries to duck out of a tackle

  • Comment 463, posted at 02.03.15 16:30:21 by BR Reply
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  • I know all the bylaws is frustrating and makes things complicated but we have one group of people to thank for that coaches

  • Comment 464, posted at 02.03.15 16:32:06 by BR Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 460) : True.

    1. Do away with interpretative laws.
    2. Give TMO’s decent monitors (and unlimited Specsavers accounts)
    3. Bring Back Rucking

    Rugby sorted…

  • Comment 465, posted at 02.03.15 16:32:19 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 437) :

    Actually, I’ve thought this law is stupid since it was first implemented a few years ago.

    The pass out of the hand thing was also added at that stage.

  • Comment 466, posted at 02.03.15 16:33:15 by Letgo Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 459) : I was being a touch facetious! :mrgreen: I’ve said clearly enough and repeatedly that my suggestion is just to simplify it all: if the ball travels forward it is forward…finished…

  • Comment 467, posted at 02.03.15 16:35:07 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 438) : You will have too be able to monitor the players whole body , the way the tackled player falls dictates the size of the “gate”

  • Comment 468, posted at 02.03.15 16:35:20 by BR Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 465) : LIKE…

  • Comment 469, posted at 02.03.15 16:36:22 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 449) :

    How extensive was the test? I believe that there is a drift, but did they determine the degree and at what speeds and distance of passes?

    If we have this type of information, it would be much easier to say, yes but a drift of that degree is impossible under so and so circumstances.

  • Comment 470, posted at 02.03.15 16:40:04 by Letgo Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 467) : :| ,I can take ref bashing and moaning about the laws but the thing that irritates the shambles out of me is people who probable haven’t touched a whistle moaning about the refs, and people that don’t know how the simplifications of the laws will screw up the game because they don’t know half of the laws, the laws is this way for a very good reason

  • Comment 471, posted at 02.03.15 16:41:51 by BR Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 467) : Then every pass will be forward. I strongly disagree.

  • Comment 472, posted at 02.03.15 16:43:00 by Ben Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 470) : I think only in a vacuum would one be able to determine that accurately. With wind, air pressure, humidity, etc. it would probably be inaccurate to the extent of not being worth the effort.

  • Comment 473, posted at 02.03.15 16:44:04 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 467) : Did you watch the video I suggested to Letgo?

  • Comment 474, posted at 02.03.15 16:45:08 by Ben Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 471) : Why does rugby need laws that are so massively open to interpretation for it to remain the game that it is?

  • Comment 475, posted at 02.03.15 16:45:40 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 470) : they did test for over two years considering most factors and the most practical solution is the movement from the hands

  • Comment 476, posted at 02.03.15 16:45:44 by BR Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 476) : Which is what makes most sense as well.

  • Comment 477, posted at 02.03.15 16:47:42 by Ben Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 475) : @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 475) : What law is open for interpretation, it is actually quite clear but you some times have to have empathy with a player the ducking out of tackle is one such time

  • Comment 478, posted at 02.03.15 16:48:23 by BR Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 476) : The technology is already there to overlay lines onto the replay footage, which should make it very clear whether any ball passed is going forward out of the hands or not. I think one could safely say that the first 1m should give an accurate account of such a motion and should be clear to most.

  • Comment 479, posted at 02.03.15 16:51:11 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 479) : I agree , just to make it clear I do believe it were a forward pass

  • Comment 480, posted at 02.03.15 16:52:34 by BR Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 478) : My dad was a Natal ref who blew in quite a few of my school games and I can tell you, even back then, I thought his interpretation of when I was offside was way off. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 481, posted at 02.03.15 17:04:46 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 481) : I am sure he got it al wrong :grin:

  • Comment 482, posted at 02.03.15 17:09:18 by BR Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 476) : The TMO used that approach and still came to the conclusion that there was no forward pass. Looking at the result of where the ball went, most people would agree that the pass was forward (i.e. the ball did not leave Kriel’s hands in a sideways direction).

  • Comment 483, posted at 02.03.15 17:11:20 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 482) : Well, he DID wear glasses… :grin:

  • Comment 484, posted at 02.03.15 17:13:47 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 451) : Because I don’t get off on telling 30 fully grown men what to do ;-)

  • Comment 485, posted at 02.03.15 17:50:48 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 483) : @Bokhoring (Comment 483) : Well to be honest he just got it wrong

  • Comment 486, posted at 02.03.15 17:52:20 by BR Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 484) : Well according to 90% of spectators all refs should wear classes because we are all blind

  • Comment 487, posted at 02.03.15 17:53:32 by BR Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 485) : I know you are only joking but for most of us it is a way of being involved in the sport we love because we can no longer play it

  • Comment 488, posted at 02.03.15 17:55:15 by BR Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 471) : Has the quality of officiating improved or has it deteriorated?

    I take it that you are a referee, so surely you have thought of ways to improve officiating the game.

    I’m sure we’d find your views insightful.

  • Comment 489, posted at 02.03.15 17:55:28 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @BR (Comment 487) : What’s your opinion on the Francios Hongaardt up and under almost at the end. Were the Bulls offside or not?

  • Comment 490, posted at 02.03.15 17:57:18 by Ben Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 489) : It’s the latter in my opinion.

  • Comment 491, posted at 02.03.15 17:58:40 by Ben Reply
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  • Almost 500…

  • Comment 492, posted at 02.03.15 18:01:18 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 474) : Yup…I’ve seen it…it doesn’t change my mind that the law should be freed of all this subjective was it maybe kind of with drift perhaps depending on the hands maybe forward…simplify!

  • Comment 493, posted at 02.03.15 18:05:59 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 491) : I also believe it is the latter, but I believe it is because the game and the laws of the game has evolved, but officiating still resembles rugby from the early 1900′s – except for the TMO and assistant refs (for what they’re worth :roll: )

  • Comment 494, posted at 02.03.15 18:06:46 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @BR (Comment 471) : Huh? I am not bashing refs, nor am I ignorant of the laws in this. All I’m saying is that, ever since they introduced this backwards out of the hands clarification for TMO’s, there has been soooo much controversy about this, that they should consider simply saying the ball is not allowed to travel forward. How will this screw up the game?

  • Comment 495, posted at 02.03.15 18:10:21 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 472) : No ways…nowhere near every pass would be forward…watch any game and check every pass in it…it is a relatively small percentage that would require a relatively small adjustment…

  • Comment 496, posted at 02.03.15 18:12:42 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 495) : When was the controversy?

  • Comment 497, posted at 02.03.15 18:13:56 by Ben Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 475) : This is my point…

  • Comment 498, posted at 02.03.15 18:13:57 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 495) : When was the controversy? Except for now.

  • Comment 499, posted at 02.03.15 18:14:29 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 496) : Figuratively speaking.

  • Comment 500, posted at 02.03.15 18:15:14 by Ben Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 476) : @Ben (Comment 477) : My main issue is just that that has clearly introduced so much subjectivity that it keeps raising controversy…last year saw upset teams in plenty of games because of this. My second issue is that the direction of the hands doesn’t necessarily determine forward or not…so for example a cocked up pass where the hands move back in attempted pass, but the pass goes horribly wrong and the ball is dropped and goes forward…that’s a knock on even if the hands go backwards…especially when guys throw a spin pass, the way the ball can come out wrong and go forward even if the hands move backwards…
    Or have I got it all wrong?

  • Comment 501, posted at 02.03.15 18:21:21 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 495) : Last year there were plenty of games where this was debated afterwards: Sharks vs Blues, a New Zealand derby (I forget which two sides…were the Crusaders involved?) where they got particularly excited on reunion…just off the top of my head…there was a Sharks Currie Cup game the year before (against the Cheetahs?) where Odwa scored off a pass like that)…just off the top of my head. This was never such a controversial topic before thr hands moving backwards thing was “clarified” for TMOs…

  • Comment 502, posted at 02.03.15 18:28:41 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Anyway…I’ve said my bit…maybe I’m just old and grumpy and wrong…but pig-headedly I’m still not convinced otherwise :mrgreen:

  • Comment 503, posted at 02.03.15 18:31:10 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Woohooo…500 up! We’re like Brian Lara!

  • Comment 504, posted at 02.03.15 18:32:57 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 501) : Well that’s a different thing altogether. Surely the ref or TMO’s common sense will take over then.

  • Comment 505, posted at 02.03.15 18:32:58 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 503) : And that’s your right as a human being. ;)

  • Comment 506, posted at 02.03.15 18:34:26 by Ben Reply
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  • you guys rock!

  • Comment 507, posted at 02.03.15 18:35:46 by robdylan Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 501) : Plus it isn’t a pass if you’re not in control of the ball. So obviously if you try to pass the ball backwards and the ball comes loose and goes forward, you have lost control of the ball, thus it is lost forward, not a pass.

  • Comment 508, posted at 02.03.15 18:37:48 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 505) : Look, I obviously I used the most extreme example… :lol: but you’ve seen it happen. I remember Jan Serfontein throwing a pass last year where the hands went back but the ball came out wrong = clear forward pass…
    At the end of the day I have a problem with the amount of subjectivity that is introduced by this “clarification”…enough subjectivity to allow a decision as debated as this one…

  • Comment 509, posted at 02.03.15 18:38:35 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 509) : The subjectivity is better than over complicating it. Imo

  • Comment 510, posted at 02.03.15 18:44:47 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 509) : So, I started downloading the game from YouTube when you told me about it. It’s only on 27% now. :roll:

  • Comment 511, posted at 02.03.15 18:50:07 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 511) : Oh dear!!

  • Comment 512, posted at 02.03.15 19:02:36 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 511) : Dial up? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 513, posted at 02.03.15 19:03:20 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 510) : Would just saying that the ball is not allowed to travel forward over-complicate things?

  • Comment 514, posted at 02.03.15 19:04:37 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 512) : @pastorshark (Comment 513) : No, my internet speed is fine. It actually just started picking up after I told you. Downloading at 1mb/s and on 65% now. Maybe it heard me complaining and decided to step up its game. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 515, posted at 02.03.15 19:05:58 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 514) : Yes. Because how do you prove the ball didn’t travel a cm forward without any extra technology?

  • Comment 516, posted at 02.03.15 19:07:16 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 515) : Haha!

  • Comment 517, posted at 02.03.15 19:14:28 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 516) : Oh come in…surely figuring that out is less complicated then trying to figure out whether the hands went back or the ball came out wrong or there was maybe kind of drift?!?! And I’m perfectly happy to draw a line through and do as best you can from there. If the ball went 1cm forward I’m happy to call it flat…

  • Comment 518, posted at 02.03.15 19:17:27 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 518) : I actually meant “come on…”…and I meant it in the nicest possible way!! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 519, posted at 02.03.15 19:18:39 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 518) : No, I can’t see how that can complicate things any less. How many times will play have to be stopped so that the TMO can check if the ball went forward? Basically it will ruin the game even more. Besides, it’s far easier for a ref to see the ball coming out of a hand backwards with his naked eye than it is to see if the ball has gone forward, taking the drift into account. See what I mean by overcomplicating?

  • Comment 520, posted at 02.03.15 19:23:22 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 520) : Clearly we just see it differently…why don’t we just agree to disagree?
    Alternatively we could keep going until we hit 600 comments… :lol:

  • Comment 521, posted at 02.03.15 19:30:03 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 521) : Now that’s worth contemplating. ;)

  • Comment 522, posted at 02.03.15 19:31:59 by Ben Reply
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  • Geez Ben, did you manage to find your bed last night or are you on a Redbull binge? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 523, posted at 02.03.15 19:33:09 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 523) : I found it. But I also found that it’s a very comfortable way to debate on Sharksworld. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 524, posted at 02.03.15 19:36:13 by Ben Reply
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  • In other KZN related news, the Impi are leading UWC 21-5 in the battle for second place in the Varsity Shield!

  • Comment 525, posted at 02.03.15 20:11:52 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 495) : It weren’t aimed at you but I realized later he was just adding petrol to the fire

  • Comment 526, posted at 02.03.15 20:13:44 by BR Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 526) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 527, posted at 02.03.15 20:15:05 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 489) : I won’t be able too say if it improved or not I were still playing school rugby 4 years ago so only refereeing for 4 years but one thing I can say is the coaching and training has improved well at least at the bulls

  • Comment 528, posted at 02.03.15 20:17:10 by BR Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 490) : We actually discussed it tonight at the law discussion they never retreated out of the 10m radius

  • Comment 529, posted at 02.03.15 20:34:47 by BR Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 489) : For improving it I still believe they should appoint full time referees to officiate at the top level it will defiantly help,too be completly honest it is actually like a hobby that you put a lot of time in. I know this is still a long way of but at least some people are starting to make those noises

  • Comment 530, posted at 02.03.15 20:39:48 by BR Reply
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  • The Impi win 21-5 and cement second place!

  • Comment 531, posted at 02.03.15 20:41:05 by pastorshark Reply
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  • And Maties lose again…this time to Shimlas… :cry:

  • Comment 532, posted at 02.03.15 20:42:55 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 525) : But they were hammered by wits last week I think

  • Comment 533, posted at 02.03.15 20:43:00 by BR Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 532) : I wanted to laugh but then I saw tuks lost to pukke :shock: :cry: :evil:

  • Comment 534, posted at 02.03.15 20:45:13 by BR Reply
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  • The Impi now have 17 points to UWC’s 12…

  • Comment 535, posted at 02.03.15 20:46:28 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 532) : Maties must be carefull they don’t find the self in a promotion relegation playoff

  • Comment 536, posted at 02.03.15 20:47:16 by BR Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 533) : Three weeks ago…last week they beat Fort Hare. At least everybody has been thumped by Wits! But that just shows the big gap between Varsity Cup and Varsity Shield!

  • Comment 537, posted at 02.03.15 20:48:23 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 536) : That would be tragic!!

  • Comment 538, posted at 02.03.15 20:49:11 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 501) : I agree not the most exited about the hands going back or forward, guys were able to pass backwards with drift before why can’t they now, and with out Tmo do you know how difficult it is to look at that as a ref or ar

  • Comment 539, posted at 02.03.15 20:51:58 by BR Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 534) : Good win for the boys from Potch!

  • Comment 540, posted at 02.03.15 20:53:10 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 538) : Nah just teasing they will bounce back and probable end up in a semi-final

  • Comment 541, posted at 02.03.15 20:53:51 by BR Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 539) : I can imagine…don’t you think that they can actually still do it now, but they don’t because they’re allowed not to?

  • Comment 542, posted at 02.03.15 20:55:37 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 495) : No the simplifying of laws that would just be amending it

  • Comment 543, posted at 02.03.15 20:56:07 by BR Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 541) : I’msure they won’t end bottom…but their forwards are struggling, so don’t know about a semi…

  • Comment 544, posted at 02.03.15 20:56:58 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 542) : Most of the guys including me at school and club level go with the ball not going forward and it is not like we have so many more forward passes

  • Comment 545, posted at 02.03.15 20:58:50 by BR Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 544) : A written off team is a dangerous team so you never know

  • Comment 546, posted at 02.03.15 21:01:47 by BR Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 529) : Thanks.

  • Comment 547, posted at 02.03.15 21:02:39 by Ben Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 545) : And the guys actually want to play it that way

  • Comment 548, posted at 02.03.15 21:02:57 by BR Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 547) : Look Jaco is a great guy and he will be the first to admit he didn’t have his best game

  • Comment 549, posted at 02.03.15 21:04:55 by BR Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 545) : Although I am now over 40, I used to ref a lot at school level in my 20′s and 30′s…and that was exactly the policy…and it didn’t spoil the game or stop every movement. That’s kind of my argument. Surely that would simplify things…

  • Comment 550, posted at 02.03.15 21:14:25 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 546) : Eh hoop met my hele Matie hart so!!! :lol:

  • Comment 551, posted at 02.03.15 21:16:13 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 551) : Tuks of niks maar vanaand was dit net mooi niks

  • Comment 552, posted at 02.03.15 21:42:28 by BR Reply
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  • The idea that some have about ruling a forward pass when the ball travels forward relative the the ground would make running rugby completely impossible. By this definition there are several dozen forward passes in almost every top level rugby match.

    eg. In the play that led to Kankowski’s try, the ball traveled forward relative to field when Marais passed it to Ndungane and when Ndungane passed it to Kankowski.

    They were both perfectly legit, relative to the players and were not even long passes. Go watch any match between 2 NZ teams and I bet, within minutes, you’ll see several long passes where the ball travels 5m or more forward from the point it is passed to the point it is caught.

  • Comment 553, posted at 02.03.15 23:21:38 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 553) : That we can agree to, to an extent.

  • Comment 554, posted at 03.03.15 03:49:15 by Ben Reply
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  • Stalled on 555?

  • Comment 555, posted at 03.03.15 11:05:09 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 553) : I’m prepared to be difficult just to get this thread to 600 comments… :mrgreen:

  • Comment 556, posted at 03.03.15 11:06:30 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 555) : You would have looked so stupid if someone commented just seconds ahead of you. :lol: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 557, posted at 03.03.15 11:28:06 by Ben Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 487) : Am I correct then that your BR nick is an abbreviation of “Blinde Ref”? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 558, posted at 03.03.15 11:32:11 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • Rest in peace ‘Bulls prevail in Loftus humdinger’ article. 559 comments young. You were taken too soon. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 559, posted at 03.03.15 19:58:12 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 559) : Giving up so close to the 600 mark?

  • Comment 560, posted at 03.03.15 20:10:16 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 558) : What else :smile:
    Nah not really

  • Comment 561, posted at 03.03.15 20:34:49 by BR Reply
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  • What a knock by masjien Amla toaday

  • Comment 562, posted at 03.03.15 20:36:58 by BR Reply
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  • seriously? 562 comments? :)

  • Comment 563, posted at 03.03.15 20:54:13 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 563) : Pitiful. Ben probably ran out of Redbull and the good Pastor needs to keep something in the tank for Sunday I assume.

  • Comment 564, posted at 03.03.15 21:05:32 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 564) : I can just imagine the title of his sermon: You’re always on-side with Jesus ;)

  • Comment 565, posted at 03.03.15 21:07:36 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 557) : It wouldn’t have been the first time… :lol:

  • Comment 566, posted at 03.03.15 22:04:57 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 565) : Look, the sermon certainly won’t have anything to do with “pass it forward” or “pay it forward” or anything like that!! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 567, posted at 03.03.15 22:07:15 by pastorshark Reply
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  • To get it to 600, all I have to is say this: I really think the ball should not be allowed to travel forward at all!! … and then see what happens!

  • Comment 568, posted at 03.03.15 22:11:02 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 562) : Another great innings! 20 centuries in record time…

  • Comment 569, posted at 03.03.15 22:12:07 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 559) : Easter is coming up soon…so in line with that, this thread is waiting to be resurrected! I can help with that!

  • Comment 570, posted at 03.03.15 22:16:22 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 563) : Oh yes…and you made it 563…

  • Comment 571, posted at 03.03.15 22:18:06 by pastorshark Reply
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  • And now we’re at 572…

  • Comment 572, posted at 03.03.15 22:18:58 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 558) : :mrgreen: You mean he’s actually Johan Greeff in real life?! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 573, posted at 03.03.15 22:32:11 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 552) : Ek sê altyd “Tuks is niks”…maar dit het twee weke terug net nie gewerk nie!

  • Comment 574, posted at 03.03.15 22:33:58 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Did anyone see Mark Lawrence’s article. He only said a little about the match nut the way he said it, said so much. I find myself wishing Jaco vdW all of the best going forward…and kind of hoping there will be a bit of public honesty about the performance at the same time…

  • Comment 575, posted at 03.03.15 22:38:51 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 531) : Here’s a write up re: Impi…http://varsitycup.co.za/varsity-shield/ukzn-coach-wants-improvement/

  • Comment 576, posted at 03.03.15 22:46:10 by pastorshark Reply
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  • So what are we on now? 577? Tomorrow we go for 600 before we put this puppy to bed…

  • Comment 577, posted at 03.03.15 22:48:10 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Oh…has anyone seen that Steven Sykes will probably be making his debut for the Cheetahs against the Bulls at some stage during the game? http://www.superxv.co.za/45680/1/cheetahs-make-three-changes-for-bulls#.VPYgHdsaL6A

  • Comment 578, posted at 03.03.15 23:00:20 by pastorshark Reply
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  • I have a proposal for the forward pass conundrum.

    The backward pass is an optical illusion. The ball really goes forward (most of the time). Embrace the optical illusion and make it part of the laws.

    Simple: If the pass looks forward it IS forward.

    All this stuff about momentum and hand angle may be valid, but it’s simply too complicated and will never cut it with the fans.
    Same goes for camera angles and view perspective. The on field referee should call it as he sees it and if he’s not sure the TMO should watch 1 angle at full speed and call it which ever way it looks to him.

    By this method, there would certainly have been a lot less whining this week.

    The Bulls would have find another way to win anyway:

  • Comment 579, posted at 04.03.15 00:04:27 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 560) : Give up? Us? Never! :shock:

  • Comment 580, posted at 04.03.15 03:31:28 by Ben Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 561) : What does it stand for then? If you don’t mind me asking.

  • Comment 581, posted at 04.03.15 03:32:54 by Ben Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 562) : He was brilliant. Not getting my hopes up about the Proteas though.

  • Comment 582, posted at 04.03.15 03:34:33 by Ben Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 563) : Not enough yet Boss man?

  • Comment 583, posted at 04.03.15 03:35:11 by Ben Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 564) : I can only afford 3 cans of red bull per week. Have to use them sparingly! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 584, posted at 04.03.15 03:36:55 by Ben Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 565) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 585, posted at 04.03.15 03:37:50 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 566) : Don’t be too hard on yourself mate. Happens to the best of us. ;)

  • Comment 586, posted at 04.03.15 03:41:26 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 567) : :lol:

  • Comment 587, posted at 04.03.15 03:47:04 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 568) : I have had two days to think about this and I still disagree with you. ;)

  • Comment 588, posted at 04.03.15 03:48:43 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 570) : I wonder if a thousand comments have ever been achieved?

  • Comment 589, posted at 04.03.15 03:50:04 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 571) : And now I’m making it 590!

  • Comment 590, posted at 04.03.15 03:51:07 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 575) : I will comment on what you said just to tell you. No, I haven’t read it.

  • Comment 591, posted at 04.03.15 03:52:41 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 576) : Did they win on Monday?

  • Comment 592, posted at 04.03.15 03:54:20 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 577) : Why put it to bed at such a young stage? Surely 1000 is achievable.

  • Comment 593, posted at 04.03.15 03:55:29 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 578) : He has been everywhere,hasn’t he?

  • Comment 594, posted at 04.03.15 04:01:27 by Ben Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 579) : Doing that will make things more complicated. Easy to judge when the passer is standing still and makes the pass. But 2 players running at full tilt and a pass being made. Good luck to the referees judging that by the naked eye. How many times will the game have to be slowed down to get the TMO’s opinion? I’m sorry, I just can’t see it working.

  • Comment 595, posted at 04.03.15 04:10:17 by Ben Reply
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  • When do the referees for matches usually get announced? A week before a game?

  • Comment 596, posted at 04.03.15 04:29:40 by Ben Reply
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  • Will be interesting to see when the 2 clowns (officials I mean) from Saturday get to officiate a game again.

  • Comment 597, posted at 04.03.15 04:52:56 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 573) : I think it’s a coin flip between him and Fyndraai. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 598, posted at 04.03.15 05:21:58 by Ben Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 553) : @fyndraai (Comment 579) : Changed your mind?

  • Comment 599, posted at 04.03.15 05:26:33 by Ben Reply
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  • Okay. 600 down, 400 left to go! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 600, posted at 04.03.15 05:27:11 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 600) : Looks like you don’t need any help in reaching the milestone.

  • Comment 601, posted at 04.03.15 08:01:16 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • One solution (although probably fairly expensive) could be to fit some tracking technology into the rugby balls. I believe the NFL is starting to look into RFID ball tracking, although so far it is only accurate within 77 cm.

  • Comment 602, posted at 04.03.15 08:14:50 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • Referees for round 4
    http://bit.ly/1M5BAfB

  • Comment 603, posted at 04.03.15 08:24:28 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 603) : Jaco Peyper, mmm.

    At least he should be better at managing the game than the rookie.

  • Comment 604, posted at 04.03.15 08:31:45 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 579) : When you say the Bulls would have found another way to win anyhow do you mean the players or the same crowd that helped them win this one. Do you think money changed hands?

  • Comment 605, posted at 04.03.15 08:32:11 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • Unbelievable! Cheetahs vs Bulls. van Heerden – assistant ref. Even more shocking. Greeff – TMO.

    Now they can help the Bulls away from home too. :roll:

  • Comment 606, posted at 04.03.15 08:32:21 by Ben Reply
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  • You have to feel for the Tjietas though – getting Greeff as TMO :roll:

  • Comment 607, posted at 04.03.15 08:32:57 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • Best of luck to KingCheetah. I really hope for your part that nothing gets referred to the TMO.

  • Comment 608, posted at 04.03.15 08:34:34 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 606) : The AR’s don’t seem to do much nowadays – except for patrolling the line, and pointing out foul play. They hardly ever make calls on off-sides or forward passes.

  • Comment 609, posted at 04.03.15 08:34:42 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 607) : My sentiments exactly!

  • Comment 610, posted at 04.03.15 08:35:38 by Ben Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 609) : Yeah, not really sure why they call them ‘assistant’ referees.

  • Comment 611, posted at 04.03.15 08:41:08 by Ben Reply
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  • Please Cheetahs do me a big favour. Put Victwat down on his arse a good couple of times – legal but hard.

  • Comment 612, posted at 04.03.15 08:47:39 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 603) : Your avatar is all wrong, shouldnt it say SuperStormers. :twisted:

  • Comment 613, posted at 04.03.15 08:49:18 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 612) : Yes please.

  • Comment 614, posted at 04.03.15 08:51:14 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 614) : He has managed the impossible – surpass Derek Kuun as my least favourite SA rugby player.

  • Comment 615, posted at 04.03.15 08:52:58 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 612) : I second that motion!

  • Comment 616, posted at 04.03.15 08:53:09 by Ben Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 615) : Thanks for nothing dude. I forgot all about him and you just reminded me. All I can see now is his face. :twisted:

  • Comment 617, posted at 04.03.15 08:56:19 by Ben Reply
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  • @ Salmonoid the Subtle; Its an old avatar :mrgreen:

  • Comment 618, posted at 04.03.15 09:02:49 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 618) : :lol:

  • Comment 619, posted at 04.03.15 09:10:56 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • Wow, I stop paying attention for a moment and already we’ve shot past 600!!! Well done, people!

  • Comment 620, posted at 04.03.15 12:34:43 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 588) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 621, posted at 04.03.15 12:37:09 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 592) : Yes, they won 21-5 and are now firmly second!

  • Comment 622, posted at 04.03.15 12:39:59 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 622) : That’s good news. How does it work it terms of being promoted into the big league?

  • Comment 623, posted at 04.03.15 12:52:26 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 623) : They have a two year system. So last year saw promotion/relegation…and this year therefore has none. This year we are playing for pride only…next year we play for promotion!

  • Comment 624, posted at 04.03.15 13:00:43 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 624) : How will the promotion/relegation work next year?

  • Comment 625, posted at 04.03.15 13:02:39 by Ben Reply
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  • As I understand it:
    - The winners of the Varsity Shield go up and the 8th team in the Varsity Cup goes down.
    The runner up of the Varsity Shield plays a promotion/relegation game against the 7th team in the Varsity Cup.

  • Comment 626, posted at 04.03.15 17:05:02 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 626) : Cheers, thanks for the info.

  • Comment 627, posted at 04.03.15 19:14:43 by Ben Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 574) : All non tukies say that but it is most of the time them that walk away tail between the legs

  • Comment 628, posted at 05.03.15 09:27:17 by BR Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 581) : I am not a creative one just my initials, but. Maybe I should go with the blind ref from now on

  • Comment 629, posted at 05.03.15 09:29:06 by BR Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 611) : because a lineman may not point out foul play but I will say Tmo’s made AR’s a tad lazy

  • Comment 630, posted at 05.03.15 09:44:14 by BR Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 609) : don’t know you and me have being watching different games Most offside calls comes from Ar’s so too the side entries especially at mauls as for forward passes there we have to credit the refs for getting them selfs in better positions

  • Comment 631, posted at 05.03.15 09:47:41 by BR Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 631) : How do the AR’s communicate with the refs in S15 – by radio or by flag?

  • Comment 632, posted at 05.03.15 10:10:36 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 632) : Radio

  • Comment 633, posted at 05.03.15 10:48:44 by BR Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 632) : You may only use your flag for3 things
    1) indicate successfull kick at goal
    2) indicate ball in touch
    3) to indicate foul play

  • Comment 634, posted at 05.03.15 10:51:25 by BR Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 632) : Even at a lower level where there are no radios you may not use your flag for something like offside or forward pass

  • Comment 635, posted at 05.03.15 10:53:30 by BR Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 629) : Yeah, that should suffice. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 636, posted at 05.03.15 11:07:03 by Ben Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 630) : Good point you have there.

  • Comment 637, posted at 05.03.15 11:08:06 by Ben Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 634) : @BR (Comment 635) : Very interesting. Would you be in favour of extending the AR’s ‘flagging’ to include offside players or forward passes or would that muddle things up too much?

  • Comment 638, posted at 05.03.15 11:24:29 by vanmartin Reply
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  • I am still so angry about this game but what is done is done. Hopefully the boys will get the rub of the green this week.

  • Comment 639, posted at 05.03.15 11:39:24 by lostfish Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 635) : OK – fair enough. I assume we can’t hear the comms between AR’s and ref, as I can’t recall ever hearing the AR talking to the ref.

  • Comment 640, posted at 05.03.15 12:36:21 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 638) : No it would make the game way too long if you don’t have communication gear it differs between refs some ask you to make a knock sign in front of their chest and the other ask you to stand still for just a couple of seconds, as a ref you tend to look at your ar’s if you are not sure of a call

  • Comment 641, posted at 05.03.15 17:26:22 by BR Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 640) : They edit out because of the bad language off players being cought on the refs mic

  • Comment 642, posted at 05.03.15 17:27:56 by BR Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 640) : You can sometimes hear the ref say happy , this mean he saw what you brought under his attention and he was happy with it

  • Comment 643, posted at 05.03.15 17:32:04 by BR Reply
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  • @BR (Comment 641) : It would also look unprofessional ,because you may see something that the ref saw and we’re happy with it then after your conversation with the ref play might continue with his original call it just won’t look good

  • Comment 644, posted at 05.03.15 18:06:38 by BR Reply
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