robdylan

Take the points and move on


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks, Super Rugby on 30 Mar 2015 at 09:41
Tagged with : , , , , , , ,

Once again, on a Monday we find ourselves bemoaning an ugly win after our team failed to come up to our expectations – yet all the same managed to win against a Force team that was arguably far better than their hosts for much of the game on Saturday.

Those following my in-game commentary on Twitter will have sensed my own increasing frustration as good possession, territory and – most importantly – points scoring opportunities – were squandered by a Sharks team seemingly hell-bent on their own destruction. A game that promised decent rugby delivered none and with a painfully short quota of Sharks rugby action available each week, I honestly felt robbed at having to sit through such a turgid affair.

Looking back, though, the team did well to turn around that awful start and while the second half performance certainly won’t go down in the annals of history as a great showing, we must applaud the two moments of real magic that the Sharks produced to seal the result. It doesn’t say much for the Force – combative and spoiling as they were – that it only took a total of about 3 minutes’ good rugby to consign them to defeat.

I’m a great believer in saving the real criticism for when it’s warranted and bashing the team and coaches after a win, to my mind, simply doesn’t hold water. We’re all concerned about what’s going to happen against the Crusaders this coming weekend, but let’s opt to rather see what sort of rugby the Sharks bring to the table in that game; we know that there tends to be a lot of variety in the quality of fare dished up.

After all, those watching the Bulls’ bumbling showing against the Force (who tend to drag opponents down to their level) could hardly have predicted their superb showing against the Crusaders just a week later. Why not the same for the Sharks?



104 Comments

  • ‘Why not the same for the Sharks?’
    I won’t hold my breath but we can always hope.

    I see a very pissed-off (read motivated) Crusaders team facing up to the Sharks on Saturday.

  • Comment 1, posted at 30.03.15 09:46:40 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Not everyone will be a pearler. Shut up and say than you. As long as we are moving forward we have the luxury of fixing niggles.

  • Comment 2, posted at 30.03.15 09:47:52 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • Very well written article not much to add you said it all

  • Comment 3, posted at 30.03.15 09:48:23 by The hound Reply
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  • I’m very worried about the Sharks in general. Lack of a game plan, lack of basic skills but most concerning is, in my opinion, a lack of passion.

  • Comment 4, posted at 30.03.15 09:53:20 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Yeah, gotta be happy with 4 points – we didn’t find many of those in our first few games after all.

    After all, would we rather be the Cheetahs and celebrate another valiant, exciting loss? Not me.

  • Comment 5, posted at 30.03.15 09:53:52 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 3) : Sums up how I feel about it.

    It wasn’t pretty but we still managed to win. I’ll take it.

  • Comment 6, posted at 30.03.15 09:54:42 by StevieS Reply
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    StevieSSuper Rugby player
     
  • I must say there were a few moments I did enjoy in the match…the Sias Moments in particular were great television drama!

  • Comment 7, posted at 30.03.15 09:55:41 by bokbok Reply

    bokbokSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 4) : I won’t go as far as saying a lack of passion. The way we defended shows some level of passion. To me it’s more a case of a fear of taking risks on attack. Lack of flair perhaps?

  • Comment 8, posted at 30.03.15 09:57:07 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Rob, you are very right in saying that the Sharks was dragged down to the Force’s level. I have played in many games where you are expected to win by a cricket score against a lowly opposition team, yet end up contesting a low scoring game. I for one think the boys will be able to do the job come saterday.

  • Comment 9, posted at 30.03.15 09:57:56 by KingRiaan Reply

    KingRiaanTeam captain
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 8) :
    That’s my take too.

  • Comment 10, posted at 30.03.15 09:59:03 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 8) : Maybe I’m being a bit harsh but I actually sensed a level of determination by the Bulls when they played the Saders. I’m yet to get a similar feeling watching a Sharks game this year. (except perhaps the Sharks Bulls game.)
    Perhaps I shouldn’t generalise because some players like Bothma(who isn’t even technically a Shark) puts everything in every week.

    I’m also sick and tired of the Sharks playing crap rugby against crap opponents and only stepping up against the better opposition. We Should be beating lowly opponents with at least a bonus point every time.

  • Comment 11, posted at 30.03.15 10:03:17 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 8) : [email protected]vanmartin (Comment 8) You make a good point there,when you watch the Lions play,they play with total freedom.
    No huge ego reputations, on the field orin the coaching box at stake.Nobody expects them to win,and they enjoy not having that pressure.
    Our guys have that deer in the headlights look as if their next mistake is fatal.Very few calm faces in our team or in the coaching box,team angst.

  • Comment 12, posted at 30.03.15 10:07:31 by The hound Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 11) : I’ve been saying that for years. We get a lead, then we switch off and defend it. The Bulls, in their prime, would put on 70 points, whereas we’d win by 12.

  • Comment 13, posted at 30.03.15 10:08:47 by StevieS Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 11) :

    To sum it up. I tired of mediocrity and being the ‘maybe next year’ team.

    I tired of supporting a team full of superstars that cannot perform as a team. I’m tired of hearing excuses every year. We need these guys to stand up and deliver to the long suffering fans that have supported them since forever.

    I’m just plain GATVOL!

  • Comment 14, posted at 30.03.15 10:10:08 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 14) : Does that go for your twin brother as well
    Relax pal imagine if you supported the Blues,team of All Black superstars,a coach knighted for his services to rugby and six games without a [email protected]<a href="#

  • Comment 15, posted at 30.03.15 10:14:26 by The hound Reply
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  • I am sorry but awful rugby is awful rugby, nothing is going to convince me against that. If someone is not performing at the level they should be there is no excuse not to call them out for it.

    Every week it’s “please don’t be mean to them they don’t deserve it, just wait and see they will be better next weekend I promise” so far its been same old same old every weekend. Ignoring this is not going to make it untrue.

  • Comment 16, posted at 30.03.15 10:14:57 by Seth101 Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 14) : At least the Lions gave us something to cheer on tour…

    While waiting on the Sharks to finally figure out “the professional era 2.0″, I will be watching the other SA teams, and enjoy good victories as well as ridicule poor losses…it goes a long way in soothing the pains that goes with supporting the Sharks. ;-)

  • Comment 17, posted at 30.03.15 10:16:14 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • So the Force dragged the Sharks down so that they couldn’t string a few passes together and score when they had long periods of possession and ascendancy at the start of the game?

    The excuses are getting more and more ridiculous. Rather blame the ref if you’re not willing to face the facts.

  • Comment 18, posted at 30.03.15 10:16:38 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 18) : I don’t know how anyone can say the Force dragged us down to their level and actually believe their won words. The Sharks have been terrible pretty much every game this season.

    If anything we dragged them down to our level and beat them with experience.

  • Comment 19, posted at 30.03.15 10:20:56 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 18) : How many games of exciting rugby have you seen the Force involved in?

    Personally, I avoid games involving them as it is always a dreary affair….

  • Comment 20, posted at 30.03.15 10:26:17 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Seth101 (Comment 19) : LOL, fair enough

  • Comment 21, posted at 30.03.15 10:27:55 by robdylan Reply
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  • Hear – hear :mrgreen:

  • Comment 22, posted at 30.03.15 10:28:49 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 19) : :lol:

  • Comment 23, posted at 30.03.15 10:30:40 by Pokkel Reply
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  • I still think what the Sharks are lacking is a kopdokter. We have some of the most talented players in the country, if not the world, but that helps nothing if they have the mentality of a poodle.

  • Comment 24, posted at 30.03.15 10:38:43 by KingRiaan Reply

    KingRiaanTeam captain
     
  • @Seth101 (Comment 19) : Agree.

  • Comment 25, posted at 30.03.15 10:42:27 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 20) : By the same token, how many games of exciting rugby have we seen the Sharks involved in lately?

  • Comment 26, posted at 30.03.15 10:44:58 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 24) : Couldn’t the Sharks and Proteas go ‘halfies’ on one? ;)

  • Comment 27, posted at 30.03.15 10:45:07 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 27) : Fire the coaches and spend all the money on Dr Phil for the therapy and Oprah so they can talk about it afterwards.

  • Comment 28, posted at 30.03.15 10:47:36 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 26) : Lately (as in past two years)…not many, but even then, it is better than what the Force has been able to offer Super Rugby.

  • Comment 29, posted at 30.03.15 10:49:29 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • Can we please outlaw the hackneyed old phrase about thinking the Sharks needing a “kopdoktor”. Every day someone else says it.

    There may be an element of truth there, but just like the wife’s nagging, it doesn’t make it any less repetitive after a while. :wink:

  • Comment 30, posted at 30.03.15 10:52:14 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 29) : And yet the Sharks and Reds still hold the dubious honour of having played the most depressing game in the history of Super Rugby.

  • Comment 31, posted at 30.03.15 10:53:02 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • so who’s the backline coach? do we have one? Does he do the 1/2 time oranges as well?

  • Comment 32, posted at 30.03.15 10:53:32 by Dryden Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 28) : For all I care they can just sit around a campfire and sing kumbaya to each other. As long as they get to sort their shit out and get back to playing real rugby. But something is bothering these players and the sooner they sort it out the better.

  • Comment 33, posted at 30.03.15 10:55:19 by KingRiaan Reply

    KingRiaanTeam captain
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 30) : Hey, I don’t have many sayings, so let me keep this one ;-)

  • Comment 34, posted at 30.03.15 10:56:36 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 33) : Amen!

  • Comment 35, posted at 30.03.15 10:56:47 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 31) : You’re talking about the Putt era there…many many moons ago.

  • Comment 36, posted at 30.03.15 10:57:12 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 36) : And still not much has changed at the Sharks. That’s even more depressing.

  • Comment 37, posted at 30.03.15 11:00:29 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 33) : They are not fighting for a cohesive common goal…they all have their own little sub-plots playing out in THEIR OWN careers:

    Forwards:
    Jannie still wants to get away with illegal binding, Cooper is still fighting to merely be the number 16 hooker, Kanko wants each game to be like the Japanese league.

    Backline:
    Hoffman is still deciding whether he really wants to play for the Sharks, Frans is still looking for that elusive 70m drop goal, Esterhuizen still wants to run over the biggest player in the opposition team, Peterson wants to know what it would feel like to play a game of rugga on Moses Mabhida.

    The rest of the guys seem to be on the same page.

  • Comment 38, posted at 30.03.15 11:06:23 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 38) :
    Lambie: Wondering what more he has to do to play for the Bokke.
    Bismark: Can’t figure out why people get upset when he throws a punch or two.
    SP: Still trying to figure out how to kick a ball.
    Odwa: Can’t decide which old age home will suit him best.
    …..
    :mrgreen:

  • Comment 39, posted at 30.03.15 11:16:16 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 38) : Too true. Only a handful of the guys seems to have a common goal. For me so far this season the guys that looks like they really want us to try and win the damn comp is Lambie, Bothma, Reinach, SP, Mvovo, Pieter-Steph, Wentzel, Beast, Giant and Thomas. Oh and always Marcell. I can’t say that any of the other players has stood out for me.

  • Comment 40, posted at 30.03.15 11:18:51 by KingRiaan Reply

    KingRiaanTeam captain
     
  • Frans has been the most out of form player in the team and its hard to see what his really good at these days apart from being big! He shouldnt be allowed to kick anymore unless he is covering at the back. Cobus must also be restricted in his kicking duties. Lambie should be the only one putting boot to ball.Half our problems sorted.

  • Comment 41, posted at 30.03.15 11:25:38 by tigershark Reply

    tigersharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • Tough crowd

  • Comment 42, posted at 30.03.15 11:38:31 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 42) :
    Too true. No sympathy amongst the fans.

  • Comment 43, posted at 30.03.15 11:44:22 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 40) : only 11 players? And I was worried it might not be the majority of the team. :mrgreen: :oops: :roll:

  • Comment 44, posted at 30.03.15 11:57:01 by robdylan Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 38) : Can not agree more.

    The Sharks are in shambles and we must take the win and move on?? Hell no!!! Sometimes you need to call a spade a spade. We are nowhere, apart from the second Cheetah game we are useless. We look uncoached, and to be honest Varsity cup is more exiting to watch than this kak, pathetic Sharks shit.

    I am actually embarrassed to say I am a Sharks supporter. The old guard must now make way for the young guys, we won’t win for a while but at least there will be a new era.

  • Comment 45, posted at 30.03.15 11:59:31 by Lieplapper Reply

    LieplapperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @KingRiaan (Comment 40) : You can add Botha and Deysel.

    All the guys you mentioned seem to fit in at the Sharks and they seem to believe in what the Sharks are building toward.

    The others are just not showing signs of being interested in taking a back seat in order for the team to succeed.

    It seems as though they are still holding on to the beliefs of the old Sharks regime. :twisted:

  • Comment 46, posted at 30.03.15 12:10:11 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • Here is a thought.

    What many of you say and have said for a long time on the Sharks (individuals superstars, lack of commonality, etc) is defined for me in a specific team’s identity and culture (which is cultivated through many processes, history being just one of them).

    Can it perhaps be that the Sharks (for many reasons) are the only top union that struggle, and has struggled from since I can remember, to find their own unique identity (culture).

    I can (but won’t because supporters might find offensive some of the associations I will make) list all the other franchises below with their ‘identity’ but I seriously struggle to attach one for the Sharks…

  • Comment 47, posted at 30.03.15 12:18:52 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 47) : Hard to disagree on that one Morne but what I find so strange is that John Smit had such a huge influence on Bok culture. Probably a huge part of what made such a respected captain. I remember watching a show on TV detailing the lengths he’d go to, to ingrain certain concepts into the Bok team. This is not a criticism of John, I want to see him in the Sharks setup. I do however struggle to understand why this isn’t trickling into the Sharks team with him at the helm. Perhaps CEO is not the position to achieve this from?

  • Comment 48, posted at 30.03.15 12:35:59 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 48) : perhaps he has plans, but battles to implement them from the saddle, as it were.

    I think Morne might have been the one to suggest some time back that the Sharks erred by not rather making John DoR, rather than CEO.

  • Comment 49, posted at 30.03.15 12:41:13 by robdylan Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 48) : Excellent comment.

  • Comment 50, posted at 30.03.15 12:41:22 by Pokkel Reply
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  • If John Smit can get off his Cell C sponsored phoned for just one second,maybe he can find the time to have a meeting (as all corporates love doing)with the people who are supposed to be managing the team. If sales are down or you product sucks,you need to find out why.Same with the Sharks.Has no-one in the ivory tower known as Growthpoint Kings Park heard any alarm bells going off or had any spreadsheets done to show there is a “challenge” that needs to be identified & rectified? :???: Where are their heads?There is a school of thought that we should leave it to the professionals,but where are they?They need to take notice of what the people who really matter (SW) say. :|

  • Comment 51, posted at 30.03.15 12:42:05 by markm Reply

    markmVodacom Cup player
     
  • @markm (Comment 51) : Specially us at SW :mrgreen: :lol:

  • Comment 52, posted at 30.03.15 13:02:39 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 52) : :mrgreen: :lol: :grin:

  • Comment 53, posted at 30.03.15 13:22:10 by StevieS Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 47) :

    You are spot on there.

    What is the culture of the Sharks team?
    What is the culture of the players?
    What is the culture of Natal/Durban?
    What is the culture of the Sharks supporters?

    What if any, commonalities exists between the answers to the above.

    “All the matter is Black and White” will only hold as long as the team is winning.

  • Comment 54, posted at 30.03.15 14:20:05 by fyndraai Reply
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  • 1. The Sharks Won.
    2. The Sharks sucked.
    3. We won’t continue winning playing like this.
    4. We need to change something before it is to late.

  • Comment 55, posted at 30.03.15 14:27:51 by Letgo Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 54) :

    and my sometimes less than tactful answers to the above:

    1) Winning…..and if not winning, then falling apart.
    2) Various……too much so.
    3) Last Outpost.
    4) Imperial Orphans from anywhere.

  • Comment 56, posted at 30.03.15 14:28:30 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 56) : wow.

  • Comment 57, posted at 30.03.15 14:30:54 by robdylan Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 56) :

    4) Sorry boet. I am definitely no Imperial Orphan. Most of the supporters I know personally would not fall in that category either. You get Sharks supporters from all over the spectrum.

  • Comment 58, posted at 30.03.15 14:33:12 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 56) : That is like saying all Bulls supporters wear two-toned khaki, has a boep, and drink only Klippies and Cola.

  • Comment 59, posted at 30.03.15 14:34:31 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • Pokkel (comment 11) take a week or so off from Sharks rugby. Not Working for you!

  • Comment 60, posted at 30.03.15 14:51:58 by Coco Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 59) :

    They don’t?

    4) Are Afrikaans speaking Natalians not just orphans of a different empire?

  • Comment 61, posted at 30.03.15 14:52:36 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @Coco (Comment 60) : did you see who I thought should have got MOTM this weekend?

  • Comment 62, posted at 30.03.15 14:53:01 by robdylan Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 61) : Now that you mention it

  • Comment 63, posted at 30.03.15 14:53:27 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • Too many to reply to individually.

    To take it further, is there anything the Sharks team even ‘projects’ to the outside (future players and supporters) as ‘theirs’ or being uniquely ‘Sharks’?

    For most it is bullshit (well for me at least) but what was the first thing Gert Smal projected or ‘latched’ on when he joined a Stormers outfit in turmoil last year?

    “Our return to our traditional Running Rugby game”

    Again, a load of BS to me but look what it did in the media and to a lot of the supporters of the team. The Stormers are still a one-dimensional attacking team if analysed properly, but now they are an exciting one-dimensional attacking team.

    The Cheetahs, Bulls, Lions all have these nuances they latch onto as part of what they are or what they represent, and make no mistake folks, a culture you can associate with goes a long way in building a successful, meaningful environment to operate in, and support.

  • Comment 64, posted at 30.03.15 14:53:41 by Morné Reply
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  • “an exciting one-dimensional attacking team” :razz:

  • Comment 65, posted at 30.03.15 14:55:11 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 64) : Crock of shite,Sharks were the first truly professional rugby team in South Africa from a marketing point of view.Everything we pioneered,was copied by the other provinces,Hell Bobby Skinstad and Alan Solomons actualy even tried to steal the black and white colours for the Stormers
    Sharks did more for the professional game than any other super rugby team At one stage in the early part of the Century the Sharks were recognised as the third best visible team in the world behind Man U and the Chicago Bulls.WE stood for rugby as much more than a game , a lucrative form of professional entertainment long before any other team.Stadiums were full,sponsors qued up to get on the bus and the money rolled in and with it the finest players
    Trouble was it worked too well and the Union stopped trying,they grew complacent and took for granted that all they had to do was announce the game and the public would turn up.
    Every other team caught up and Kings Park was not unique any more.No bums on seats means no money coming in.

  • Comment 66, posted at 30.03.15 15:32:09 by The hound Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 64) : I do believe I have identified what the Sharks culture is; it’s American! To whit, this quote appears on the Statue of Liberty:

    “Give me your your tired, your poor

    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore…”

    Bugger me if that doesn’t perfectly describe some of our choicer signings through the years, from Epi Taone and Kees Lensing, though Marius Joubert, and on to some of our current crop…

  • Comment 67, posted at 30.03.15 15:45:31 by Culling Song Reply
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  • TheStormers/WP biggest asset is that they have managed to sell the game to a wider audience.
    Granted most of those supporters are there for the opposition.
    Our future is in selling the game to a non traditional audience.
    On Saturday I moved out of my seats in the rain and up into the top covered stand,I sat in front of a group of 20 young black guys,not rugby players but true township boys,they were singing Shoza loza [spelling ]and getting totally into it when Lawazi ran in that try those guys went into raptures.
    That is the future of our the game.
    Sharks could be a real black and white team.

  • Comment 68, posted at 30.03.15 15:47:29 by The hound Reply
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  • I think, having experienced Sharks rugby at Kings Park since 2000 (season ticket holder and very rarely missing a game) up to 2015, the Sharks was all about the vibe. That seems a little vague I know, but there was a vibe and an atmosphere at Kings Park, that (like The hound above rightly pointed out), has been fading over the last few years.

    This has largely happened, because the marketing team became complacent.

    I also think there wasn’t enough planning done, once we knew we were going to lose a lot of the closer parking areas because of Moses Mabida across the street. There needed to be a lot more planning once we knew that was going to happen.

    Now that we realise we are losing supporters because people can’t hang out before or after the game, like they used to during the 90′s and 00′s, we have to try and fix it coming from behind.

    I remember the 2000 season. What a dreadful season. Ending last on the Super 12 log, but people still came. You would walk by people you got to know, because they always parked in their space and you always parked in yours. And before the game you would joke and ask, “how much do you think we’re going to lose by this week”. It didn’t matter that we were losing, because we were going for the vibe before, during and after the game.

    Then 2001 we obviously got some results, but it was still another 6 years after that before any good results and yet, people still came. Parked in their usual spot week in and week out.

    To me that was the Sharks. We made match day something no-one wanted to miss. (‘n Lekker kuier/geseligheid – I can’t find any good English words to describe it).

    And I think with some time/effort/creativity/money/planning put into this area of Sharks rugby specifically, we will see people coming back, even before the Sharks turn around how they play.

    Naturally good flamboyant performances attacks more numbers almost, but they will leave just as fast as they came. You can’t play every match to entertain the people. It’s impossible, but you can create a match-day experience that attacks people regardless of the match that will be played.

  • Comment 69, posted at 30.03.15 16:00:26 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 69) :

    Just to support my theory above.

    When we used to have a parking space right across the street from Kings Park, my whole family came with us to the game and would miss a week if they could help it. My brothers, my Dad, friends of ours. If the game was at 3 or 5, we would braai after the game, if it was at 7 we would braai before the game.

    Now my dad comes with us every other game, my brother more often, but sometimes reluctantly and my brother (now married, with 4 kids (3 boys)), never comes to the games anymore.

    It has now become all about the game. The performances of the guys on the field. And that is not what the Sharks were all about. When we were losing, we were playing a little more expansively (at times, though at times it was really just dreadful rugby), when we were winning, most of the times, we tightened up a little and got serious about it, but the core group of people (I would estimate around 25 000 – 30 000), came week in and week out, just to enjoy a night out with the family.

  • Comment 70, posted at 30.03.15 16:08:20 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 69) : Agree with you 100% thats why I find Morne’s comments about the Sharks having no defined culture as being offensive,he obviously never ever experienced any of that.
    But we are living in the past and need to recreate something new.
    Einstein’s definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result each time.
    Sound familiar

  • Comment 71, posted at 30.03.15 16:13:44 by The hound Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 69) : I hope you mean ‘attracts’ :shock: Lol :lol: Well said, I always loved the vibe at the game, before, during and after. We need to get that back.

  • Comment 72, posted at 30.03.15 16:14:27 by StevieS Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 71) : I think Morne means now. Moses Mabida being across the road changed things, so the Sharks need to adapt better.

  • Comment 73, posted at 30.03.15 16:15:59 by StevieS Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 66) :

    What you describe there is selling a product, not a culture. The problem with selling a product, which as you described you did really well, is that competitors (in this case other teams) will not only copy your product, but improve on it.

    The Sharks ‘product’ of the mid-90′s to early 2000′s was cool, and fashionable, but fashion changes, and what was cool for me as a 20-year old is definitely not cool for today’s 20-year old’s.

    But WP will always have (because they make sure of it) ‘flair’ and the perception of the guys that invented and are the best at ‘running rugby’.

    The Bulls will always be the hard okes, vat nie kak nie.

    Cheetahs the farmer boys, etc etc etc.

    People associate with that ‘culture’ and usually do so for life – but as far as products goes, we cannot wait for the new improved version.

  • Comment 74, posted at 30.03.15 16:26:59 by Morné Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 71) : @StevieS (Comment 73) :

    Actually –

    “Can it perhaps be that the Sharks (for many reasons) are the only top union that struggle, and has struggled from since I can remember, to find their own unique identity (culture).”

    So my answer being, that was our culture, which I believe we have lost, only partly due to Mabida, and largely due to our complacency.

    I don’t agree with Morne that the Sharks always struggled with a clear culture, but believe we are now and agree that something needs to be done about it and urgently.

  • Comment 75, posted at 30.03.15 16:27:01 by Letgo Reply
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  • Finally, a culture is timeless (and like I said usually bullshit but hey, people love buying into bullshit), a product is temporary.

  • Comment 76, posted at 30.03.15 16:29:17 by Morné Reply
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  • Any case folks, I am off.

  • Comment 77, posted at 30.03.15 16:39:24 by Morné Reply
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  • @Culling Song (Comment 67) :

    American seems about right actually!

  • Comment 78, posted at 30.03.15 16:40:10 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 74) : Ooh ooh, do the Lions, do the lions… :lol:

  • Comment 79, posted at 30.03.15 16:43:58 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 74) :

    Morne, what you describe in your post is a playing style. So you ascribe culture to playing style, so rather you are looking for the “playing culture” of the Sharks?

    As far as I know, the Sharks was always one of the more exciting teams in SA rugby. We were willing to play young players earlier than anyone else, take chances, try new things … I would say the Sharks’s playing culture used to be – innovative, buck the trend, stay ahead of the times, weird, interesting, different.

    Starting from the 90′s this culture just sort of was, because of where we came from. We were the new kids on the block, suddenly doing better than ever. Everything the Sharks did was new and out there. Fun and interesting.

    The thing is, along the way, we became a strong team. We were being taken seriously and started to take ourselves seriously – too seriously, possibly. Taking chances became more costly, as there were more expectations. And suddenly, just having fun and trying new things, seemed more and more irresponsible. I think Kevin Putt was our last horah at trying to keep our identity.

    When Struali was hired there was a clear change in who the Sharks were. I think what Strauli did was ad some structure to our “madness” (innovation). The problem is no one remembered where we came from and kept “playing culture” or the vision – mission statement, if you will, at heart.

    I’m reading a book of Raymond Ackerman, he dedicates an entire chapter to developing a mission statement and in every chapter after that refers back to this “mission statement”, suggesting that any decision you make, that does not serve your mission statement, will hamper the success of you business – “You will come to rely heavily on your mission statement to maintain focus and guide your endeavor”. he says.

    He also says, if your mission statement does not largely focus on serving the customer, if your primary motivation is money and if you do not show a real interest and concern for consumers, you would never gain their loyalty or their money and ultimately your business will fail.

    I still strongly believe though the Sharks may not have developed their “mission statement” that their was in fact a clear “culture”, which made the Sharks Union one of the most successful sporting unions around, but because they either didn’t know what this culture was, or didn’t keep focus on this culture and ultimately lost it, the Sharks union are now struggling to find their way.

  • Comment 80, posted at 30.03.15 16:55:17 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 80) :

    Btw, I think John Smit is a good bet, to get the Sharks back to where they were and a guy like Brendon Venter would be the perfect coach, as he doesn’t standback to any pressures there might be to conform to a certain trend.

    I just don’t see BV’s influence as much as I would like to, at this moment.

  • Comment 81, posted at 30.03.15 17:00:22 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 5) : Valid points, think the frustration is in the fact that the Sharks really shouldn’t be scraping a win against the Force, a most fortuitous win too. Even the Cheetahs would have put away the Force on the day, had the Sharks played like they did against the Cheetahs in bloom, they would have been punished again.

    Sharks played well vs. the Cheetahs, probably the only match where the Sharks played with clinical precision.

  • Comment 82, posted at 30.03.15 19:30:23 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @Seth101 (Comment 19) : Agreed.

  • Comment 83, posted at 30.03.15 19:32:23 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 20) : How many games of exciting rugby have we seen the Sharks play? You probably have to go a ways back, and thats not being facetious!!

  • Comment 84, posted at 30.03.15 19:33:59 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @Lieplapper (Comment 45) : Agreed, The Sharks played calculated and passionate rugby against the Cheetahs. Maybe it wasn’t free flowing running rugby, but damn it was effective, and it was well played, and a cohesive team effort. It’s been the only match, that I have seen this year, where they looked good.

  • Comment 85, posted at 30.03.15 19:37:14 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 55) : The problem is, almost every year over the last few, the pattern has been the same. Sharks win a few ugly ones, and the guys on here say, “heck it was ugly, but at least we are winning” Then it continues, and the paw paw hits the fan, when Sharks lose matches, that everyone reasonably expect them to win. Boom out of contention, or in a position they shouldn’t have been in.

  • Comment 86, posted at 30.03.15 19:41:32 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @KingCheetah (Comment 85) : against the Lions?

  • Comment 87, posted at 30.03.15 19:54:08 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • @Morné (Comment 74) : Are you saying that the rugby the Stormers/Wp played for the last 3 years and the rugby they are playing today are one and the same stemming from an imbued timeless culture of running rugby and flair.
    I think if you think about that statement again,for the past 3 years under Alistar Coetzee the Stormers adopted the Nienaber defence system as their only game plan,they scored the least tries and also let in the least tries.Their game plan was rigid.
    With the arrival of Gert Smal this game plan was radically altered and now they are playing a running rugby game,which initially worked quite well,but was exposed but not capitalised on by the Lions.
    Began to crumble against the Chiefs and then went to pieces last week.
    The sharks playing style was first perfected by Izak van Heerden and then fine tuned by Ian Mac.
    It relied on skill and intelligence to componsate for a lack in size and brawn.
    Culture is something you cannot always see as an outsider,and I don’t blame you for not understanding the Natal culture,but please don’t say it doesn’t exist just because you can’t see it.
    Sharks culture is Keith Oxlee,Trix Truter,Craig Jameson,Vleis Visagie,Cabous van der Westhuizen,Mark Andrews,Gary Teich,Andre Joubert,Butch James,Henry Honibal,John Smit,Izak van Heerden,Ian Mac,John Plumtree,Brian van Zyl,and today it is Pat Lambie,
    What is next in S.A rugby will come from the Sharks,as a product and as a culture

  • Comment 88, posted at 30.03.15 20:03:02 by The hound Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 87) : Yes, forgot about that one as well.

  • Comment 89, posted at 30.03.15 20:04:33 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 89) : it doesn’t change your fundamental argument.

  • Comment 90, posted at 30.03.15 20:36:11 by robdylan Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 88) : I have to say, I’m kind of awed by your unshakeable belief in the Sharks. The only things I’ve ever felt that convicted over is the need to outlaw AutoTune, and to have Beyonce’s vocal chords removed

  • Comment 91, posted at 30.03.15 20:47:16 by Culling Song Reply
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  • @Culling Song (Comment 91) : …that incessant vodacom add before, after and in-between each game drives me up the wall :twisted:

  • Comment 92, posted at 30.03.15 20:51:11 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Culling Song (Comment 91) : :lol: :lol:

  • Comment 93, posted at 30.03.15 21:34:47 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 90) : Nope, Sharks have really not played well in any bar those two matches, and maybe also in the loss vs. the Bulls. They are beginning to gain some momentum, real momentum.

  • Comment 94, posted at 30.03.15 21:40:02 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @The hound (Comment 88) :

    First off, you seem to be a passionate supporter – don’t lose that because the way things are going in supporting pro sports this quality is few and far between.

    Onto the subject…

    What happened to the Stormers (WP), the Bulls, the Sharks, the Cheetahs, the ‘whoever’ in the LAST 3 to 20 years means nothing in what I am trying to bring across as a point to consider – not a statement of fact – just something to think about to bring an alternative context for debate.

    Now without boring everyone – the Sharks if viewed from an outside perspective has really not defined their own culture – if they did then it was one of buying the best thing out there to make sure our investment makes commercial sense…

    @Letgo (Comment 69) : Probably summed it up better than I ever could.

    Point is, apart from the cool ads, the ‘Black and White and nothing else matters’ theme – the Sharks really has no deep appeal based on comments above I made.

  • Comment 95, posted at 30.03.15 22:20:51 by Morné Reply
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    MornéTeam captain
     
  • While they’re at concocting up a culture, they should consider a return of the Banana Boys.

    Not so long ago, the Shark was public enemy number one in Natal and the writ of the Natal Sharks Board was to free the ocean of the menace.

    Lingering subconscious anti shark feelings are hindering progress at Kings Park.

  • Comment 96, posted at 31.03.15 02:23:49 by fyndraai Reply
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  • The Sharks rock the beach, surfer, laid back vibe. Happy team, chilled out supporters. Cabous was the stereotype remember?

    So we do have a “culture” that’s very different to the other teams.

    Who would want the Bulls’ dof, dom brandy en coke bonehead “culture” anyway?

  • Comment 97, posted at 31.03.15 04:02:02 by Feather Reply

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  • @Feather (Comment 97) : Chilled out supporters!? Not if this site is anything to go by…

  • Comment 98, posted at 31.03.15 05:41:30 by Culling Song Reply
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  • @StevieS (Comment 72) :

    I missed the ‘r’ both times, so maybe I do mean attacks …. attracts, more people. Got it.

  • Comment 99, posted at 31.03.15 08:13:27 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Feather (Comment 97) : so we need to attract players that buy into that culture.

    do the DuP brothers or Frans Steyn strike you as at all laid back, in any way?

  • Comment 100, posted at 31.03.15 09:18:34 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 100) : Bismarck is so laid back he’s practically horizontal… it gives a better vantage to kick from at your opponents…

  • Comment 101, posted at 31.03.15 10:09:15 by Culling Song Reply
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  • @Culling Song (Comment 101) : LOL

  • Comment 102, posted at 31.03.15 10:10:46 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Feather (Comment 97) :

    Your fairly offensive stereotype may be somewhat accurate for some Bulls fans but the conversation here was about “team culture” not fan culture.

    Team culture for the Bulls team would be more like: “Very Afrikaans and very religious, with a high priority on hierarchy, loyalty and humility”. Playing philosophy for a long time has been mostly pragmatic: “Kick when you must, run when you may, territory over possession and forward led attack”.

    Teams can be good without such clear and well defined common purposes, but they will probably always be better with them.

    What’s the equivalents at the Sharks?

  • Comment 103, posted at 31.03.15 21:01:48 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 103) : Humility? Victor Matfield!? Surely those are mutually exclusive terms!?? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 104, posted at 01.04.15 05:30:36 by Culling Song Reply
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