robdylan

Five weeks for Steyn


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content on 31 Mar 2015 at 15:04

SANZAR’s appeal into Frans Steyn’s exoneration after his red card against the Chiefs has been upheld.

In other words, the appeal hearing has overturned Jannie Lubbe’s controversial “not guilty” verdict and handed Steyn a 5-week ban.

SANZAR NEWS RELEASE

A SANZAR Appeals Committee, chaired by Terry Willis (Australia) and comprising Nigel Hampton QC (New Zealand) and Robert Stelzner SC (South Africa), has allowed an appeal by SANZAR against the verdict of a judicial hearing that cleared Francois Steyn of a lifting tackle.

The Appeals Committee unanimously upheld the appeal brought by SANZAR and found that Steyn breached Law 10.4 (j) and that the referee was correct to red card the player during the match between the Sharks and the Chiefs played at Growthpoint KINGS PARK in Durban on Saturday 21 March 2015.

The Committee determined that the relevant sanction was four matches. After taking into consideration the Sharks’ bye in Round 11, Steyn was suspended from all forms of the game up to and including 3 May 2015.

ENDS



161 Comments

  • Is it possible to appeal the appeal??

  • Comment 1, posted at 31.03.15 15:07:37 by Saarks Reply
    SaarksUnder 19 player
     
  • Are you kidding me?!? FIVE WEEKS? Holy hell, Messam gets off, their hooker gets 1 week for bashing beast in the head, Bismark gets four weeks for kicking a bastard in the face and Steyn suddenly gets FIVE FUCKING WEEKS?

    Can we appeal the appeal? This is ludicrous.

  • Comment 2, posted at 31.03.15 15:08:48 by Dragnipur Reply
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  • Such BS!!!!! :evil:

  • Comment 3, posted at 31.03.15 15:09:22 by ChrisS Reply
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    ChrisSSuper Rugby player
     
  • 5 weeks for an SA player 1 week for NZ player doesn’t add up o wait he is south African player almost slipped my mind

  • Comment 4, posted at 31.03.15 15:09:39 by duncanbetteridge Reply

    duncanbetteridgeUnder 21 player
     
  • I never liked that tackle but five weeks? Farcical. We’re in serious danger of breaching Monty Python territory here…

  • Comment 5, posted at 31.03.15 15:10:26 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Utterly ridiculous. 5 weeks for an accidental tip tackle with mitigating circumstances. I hope we can appeal this!

  • Comment 6, posted at 31.03.15 15:13:24 by lostfish Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Competition Winner
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 5) : @lostfish (Comment 6) : Farcial is the right word. From no ban to getting the worst ban of that whole game. Ridiculous!

  • Comment 7, posted at 31.03.15 15:14:43 by StevieS Reply
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    StevieSSuper Rugby player
     
  • The bans for more sever actions are ridiculous! Who at SANZAR did Steyn not give an autograph to??? :shock:

  • Comment 8, posted at 31.03.15 15:16:18 by ChrisS Reply
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    ChrisSSuper Rugby player
     
  • Sounds early April fools to me… I bloody hope it is.. Other wise this game has just gotten outta hand and utterly effing Rediculous.

  • Comment 9, posted at 31.03.15 15:17:00 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner IceAssistant coach
     
  • Ai, the amount and type of swear words I want to use here is just ridiculous!

  • Comment 10, posted at 31.03.15 15:19:46 by KingRiaan Reply

    KingRiaanTeam captain
     
  • …say what now :shock:

  • Comment 11, posted at 31.03.15 15:22:58 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • Why is everyone upset?? we know this whole SR thing is a farce, nothing new……….. ;-)

  • Comment 12, posted at 31.03.15 15:24:46 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • I dont agree!!! This is just bloody outrageous. .yes he might have been slightly at fault for not bringing the player safely to ground…BUT he wasnt the only tackler! …better be early April fools!!!

  • Comment 13, posted at 31.03.15 15:25:59 by Sharkfinn Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • 5 weeks is definitely extremely harsh. No consistency at all. In previous weeks tip tackles exactly the same have ranged from just a penalty to at most a yellow card. So why no appeals then by Sanzar?

  • Comment 14, posted at 31.03.15 15:30:24 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • he’ll appeal

  • Comment 15, posted at 31.03.15 15:31:51 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • ja I that is what happens if you piss off the bosses at SA rugby they moer you through SANZAR!!!!!!
    One official sees it as ok with no ban the next one sees it a dangerous and a five week ban must say great to see they all think the same!!!!!!!

  • Comment 16, posted at 31.03.15 15:37:43 by JD Reply
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  • Ridiculous!!!!!!

  • Comment 17, posted at 31.03.15 15:46:58 by Nita Reply

    NitaVodacom Cup player
     
  • Match referee and 1 assistant referee think they have no choice but to award a red card even though they understand the mitigating factor of other tacklers involved. TMO thinks it is a yellow card offence due to the mitigating factor. Automatic citation after red card, and hearing officer thinks that the red card was unwarranted. Then SANZAR disagrees and appeals, and appeal hearing tribunal, not only think the red card should be re-instated but a five week ban is also appropriate. Everyone up to this point were debating whether the red card should be given or not, then these guys decide not only that it should have been given but an additional 5 weeks is also appropriate :?: :!: :?: :!: :shock: :shock: :shock: How did we get from debating whether the red card should have been given or not to a 5 week ban?

  • Comment 18, posted at 31.03.15 15:56:21 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • this should hopefully open a can of worms.appeal the appeal

  • Comment 19, posted at 31.03.15 15:56:23 by Dunx Reply

    DunxSuper Rugby player
     
  • It boggles the mind. Or at least, it boggles the mind that anyone can be surprised by this; this is SANZAR we are dealing with, after all…

  • Comment 20, posted at 31.03.15 15:58:07 by Culling Song Reply
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  • What a crock of Shyte.

  • Comment 21, posted at 31.03.15 16:00:02 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Culling Song (Comment 20) : I can’t say this was unexpected, but I still held out hope that some level of sanity would prevail. To be completely honest, I hoped/expected a reinstatement of the red card and nothing more.

  • Comment 22, posted at 31.03.15 16:02:42 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • 5 weeks is absolutely ridiculous

  • Comment 23, posted at 31.03.15 16:02:55 by Ludz Reply

    LudzSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Ludz (Comment 23) : A reinstatement of the red card or even a 1 or 2 week ban would have been hard to argue with, 5 weeks is just so ridiculous you can not even argue with it. How does one counter absurdity with logic?

  • Comment 24, posted at 31.03.15 16:04:54 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • you know where I stand. I thought he should have got 2-3 weeks to begin with.

    But this nonsense coupled with overcompensation is just crazy

  • Comment 25, posted at 31.03.15 16:07:52 by robdylan Reply
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  • I noticed the hearing officers report was very extensive, documenting his entire thought process. Showing entry level penalties, mitigating factors, reasons for decreasing the penalty, etc. I really want to read these guys report documenting their clearly twisted, tortured thought process that allowed them to come up with this penalty. Should be an interesting read or at the very least, worth a laugh or two.

  • Comment 26, posted at 31.03.15 16:08:48 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 25) : Exactly my point, a 2 or even a 3 week ban would have been hard to argue with, but 5 weeks???? Nuts.

  • Comment 27, posted at 31.03.15 16:09:55 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • Wow….just a freakin joke!!!

  • Comment 28, posted at 31.03.15 16:10:10 by BarendL Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 26) : you’re about to be very disappointed.

  • Comment 29, posted at 31.03.15 16:10:52 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Culling Song (Comment 20) : :mrgreen: My point exactly.

  • Comment 30, posted at 31.03.15 16:10:53 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • Has anyone at SANZAR heard of double jeopardy?If you are charged & acquitted of an offence,then you may not be retried for same offence again.How can SANZAR appeal a SANZAR ruling.Forget double jeopardy,what about double standards?Methinks it is because Frans stood up to SARU & their double dealings.Lastly,this is going to turn into an OJ/Oscar thing with appeals going back & forth with only one sufferer – The Sharks (& of course,Sharksworld :grin: )5 weeks – go figure!

  • Comment 31, posted at 31.03.15 16:12:04 by markm Reply

    markmVodacom Cup player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 25) : Hi Rob…. :smile: Do you have any idea when the appeal panel’s report will be released, or will these guys keep their process secret just to throw further salt into the wound?

  • Comment 32, posted at 31.03.15 16:12:14 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • Little bit OTT, but he did deserve a ban of some length.

  • Comment 33, posted at 31.03.15 16:12:31 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 29) : Why not start a petition via all social media? We just need to make sure it is a fight for all SA teams?

  • Comment 34, posted at 31.03.15 16:12:45 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • I just lost it on the SANZAR website a little :oops: Tore them a new one :razz: I think I’m on a watchlist now…

  • Comment 35, posted at 31.03.15 16:12:56 by Southern_Shark Reply
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  • Hey, at least he got to play on Saturday… oh yes, that didnt end too well…

  • Comment 36, posted at 31.03.15 16:13:17 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 29) : *sigh* Secret?

  • Comment 37, posted at 31.03.15 16:13:28 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 33) : And the Kiwi players did not? this is the whole point mate, If our players deserved that time etc fine, but year in and year out we see it is not the same for all teams.

  • Comment 38, posted at 31.03.15 16:14:10 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • Oh wait a petition will not work, South Africans have never ever stood together :evil: :lol:

  • Comment 39, posted at 31.03.15 16:15:09 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • Oh well Steyn atleast cannot be blamed when the Sharks play shite in the next 5 weeks :mrgreen: :lol:

  • Comment 40, posted at 31.03.15 16:18:03 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 34) : Start it I’ll even get twitter for that shit!!

  • Comment 41, posted at 31.03.15 16:21:09 by Southern_Shark Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 33) : Yeah we all knew he was extremely lucky getting away with a ban initially. But ja 5 weeks – yoh..
    Well at least Sanzar is back to their true form of nailing SA teams lol :mrgreen:

  • Comment 42, posted at 31.03.15 16:21:24 by RedSharkUtd82 Reply

    RedSharkUtd82Super Rugby player
     
  • He should have kicked him in the head and only gotten 4 weeks :twisted:

  • Comment 43, posted at 31.03.15 16:28:22 by Southern_Shark Reply
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  • @Culling Song (Comment 20) : By the way did Hoffman prevail against you or do you live to stalk another day? ;)

  • Comment 44, posted at 31.03.15 16:39:13 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Utterly ridiculous, can something not be done. SANZAR are clearly a law unto themselves with rugby itself being the loser. Surely for the sake of the game IRB or such should be able to reign in clearly off the rail organizations like this to protect the game?

  • Comment 45, posted at 31.03.15 16:41:33 by stevovo Reply
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  • My beloved Sharks; please use this craziness and – legally – mess the Crusaders up. You guys have got to be ticked off and the Crusaders happen to be kiwis who beat you like a red headed step child in the semi last year. Here, take my wrath and pain and focus;there’s oodles. Pat, SP, Marcel, guys please do it for us and especially for Frans on Saturday. And have a blessed Easter

  • Comment 46, posted at 31.03.15 16:45:42 by SeanJeff Reply
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    SeanJeffSuper Rugby player
     
  • @stevovo (Comment 45) : Oh were it a perfect world and people behaved in a reasoned manner. ;-)

  • Comment 47, posted at 31.03.15 16:46:04 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • This does not seem fair. I have to say I thought the tackle was bad, but cannot believe that 5 weeks is only for the tackle.

  • Comment 48, posted at 31.03.15 16:47:34 by Letgo Reply
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  • @SeanJeff (Comment 46) : hear hear!!!

  • Comment 49, posted at 31.03.15 16:47:45 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • Why we ever got involved with this abomination of a Sanzar I will never understand….

  • Comment 50, posted at 31.03.15 16:48:26 by grant10 Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • Time for the guys going to the game to get their poster making equipment out. I dare you to trash SANZAR on game day. :twisted:

  • Comment 51, posted at 31.03.15 16:49:40 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 51) : I double dare you!!!!

  • Comment 52, posted at 31.03.15 16:50:51 by Southern_Shark Reply
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  • Well done SANZAR. Hope you’re happy now. :roll:

  • Comment 53, posted at 31.03.15 16:58:55 by Ben Reply
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  • Something really has to be done….years of SA abuse by the kissing Anzac cousins……and we still just allowing it …..

  • Comment 54, posted at 31.03.15 17:05:06 by grant10 Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • Seems a bit harsh

  • Comment 55, posted at 31.03.15 17:07:41 by Morné Reply
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  • The next tip tackle offense and punishment should be interesting. Precedent set.

  • Comment 56, posted at 31.03.15 17:11:00 by Morné Reply
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    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 37) : I’ll update the article to include what they sent.

  • Comment 57, posted at 31.03.15 17:15:35 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • Thats utter utter bull shit!!! Messam was found guilty but no ban whatsoever. Absolutely ludicrous. No consistency at all. Oh yes Steyn is South African. Now it makes sense. Hope the guys take all the anger and frustration out on the Crusaders come Saturday.

  • Comment 58, posted at 31.03.15 17:18:35 by willemv10 Reply

    FoxCurrie Cup player
     
  • Stupid fools, if you want to foul then make sure its a charging shoulder to the base of the neck.

  • Comment 59, posted at 31.03.15 17:19:26 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • Special Sharks #ForeverFans jerseys to be auctioned off

  • Comment 60, posted at 31.03.15 17:21:38 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 56) : Well a new precedent set for those dirty, dirty SA players at least :)

  • Comment 61, posted at 31.03.15 17:25:04 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Must be an April fools joke. ..

  • Comment 62, posted at 31.03.15 17:26:06 by Franshark Reply
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  • ANZAC….teaching the Jaarpies a lesson since 1996 :twisted:

  • Comment 63, posted at 31.03.15 17:43:18 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • I think this could be good for Esterhuizen and Williams. Both need game time and I am sure this will create that for them.

  • Comment 64, posted at 31.03.15 18:14:20 by YamYam Reply
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  • I wonder if Gerrie had opened the door for these guys to retroactively cite Reinach and give him 5 weeks too?

  • Comment 65, posted at 31.03.15 18:19:36 by robdylan Reply
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  • @YamYam (Comment 64) : and Williams, at least, is far more creative and generally “useful” than one-trick Frans anyway.

  • Comment 66, posted at 31.03.15 18:20:14 by robdylan Reply
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  • SANZAR, I salute you, you useless bunch of inconsistent schmucks!! And once more there is nothing anyone can do to the arbitrary tyrant. Like I said last week: A***HOLES!!

  • Comment 67, posted at 31.03.15 18:24:39 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Although I find the ruling shocking, I am in a way glad. Frans attitude have not been the best and like you said Williams offer so much more on attack

  • Comment 68, posted at 31.03.15 19:31:14 by YamYam Reply
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  • What happened to SANZAR’s common sense according to prophecy: ‘There shall, in that time, be rumours of things going astray, erm, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little things… with the sort of raffia work base that has an attachment. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend’s hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o’clock.’

  • Comment 69, posted at 31.03.15 19:48:34 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 69) : Sage words indeed..!

  • Comment 70, posted at 31.03.15 20:07:15 by Culling Song Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 69) : SANZAR is as rational as the Judean’s People’s Front. Wankers

  • Comment 71, posted at 31.03.15 20:11:51 by Culling Song Reply
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  • I think it would be more accurate to say that Frans Steyn was suspended for 4 games, not 5 weeks.

    If everyone was expecting 2 to 3, then 4 is on the harsh side, but hardly outrageous. Also some blame should be laid on Jannie Lubbe, because it was his ruling that opened the door for this one.

  • Comment 72, posted at 31.03.15 21:06:21 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @Culling Song (Comment 70) : Have to be honest, I had the best time digging through old Monty Python quotes until I found that pearl so uh… thank you SANZAR for forcing me into that I guess? Damnit they win again.

  • Comment 73, posted at 31.03.15 21:09:32 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 72) : What I wasn’t expecting was Messam’s armbar choke-hold to be considered the equivalent of light foreplay

  • Comment 74, posted at 31.03.15 21:17:32 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 73) : Watching some Monty Python as we speak. Thanks for initiating that!

  • Comment 75, posted at 31.03.15 21:46:27 by Culling Song Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 74) : It’s a different offense though with perhaps a different standard punishment.

  • Comment 76, posted at 31.03.15 21:48:24 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 76) : Of course it’s a different offense…one with a different punishment…of NOUGHT weeks. It all makes perfect sense!

  • Comment 77, posted at 31.03.15 22:39:20 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 76) : My beef with SANZAR is not that they punish Steyn for something that was dangerous…but they they punish Steyn for something that is dangerous, but do not punish assorted All Blacks for dangerous play too. The lack of consistency is infuriating!!

  • Comment 78, posted at 31.03.15 22:41:46 by pastorshark Reply
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  • The SANZAR Fools are clearly run by NZ. Now I’m very glad NZ lost to AUS in the Cricket WC. And may those NZ members of SANZAR ROT IN HELL. They are so jealous of South Africa and their wealth of players they have to try and take them out one by one while their own ROUGH, BELOW THE BELT babies get treated with kid gloves! Shame poor babies!

  • Comment 79, posted at 01.04.15 00:02:29 by [email protected] Reply

    DenCurrie Cup player
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 5) : @robdylan (Comment 25) :
    Look I certainly thought the tackle was worse and Steyn was more to blame than most folk on this site…BUT FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.

    If Bismarck’s criminal act gets 4 weeks then how does this get more than 2/3?? And naturally we can compare to the NON-SUSPENSION of certain filthy Kiwi players from that game…

    Judicial system is and always has been a joke

  • Comment 80, posted at 01.04.15 00:38:34 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 57) : I’d like to say thanks Rob, I had seen that release elsewhere, I suppose that was what precipitated my post. As absurd as the original decision may have been, at least he provided evidence and a thought process. These guys just sommer decided. So what is the entry level penalty for a tip tackle offence? Is this a first offence by Frans, are there other mitigating factors? Certainly the failure of this tribunal to provide a more detailed report of their findings calls into question the legitimacy of the findings.

    Ah well time to move on, and take out the anger on the ‘saders.

  • Comment 81, posted at 01.04.15 01:11:14 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • I feel Steyn deserved some punishment, and that the first decision may have been slightly fortunate for the Sharks. However I cannot for the life of me understand how 5 weeks can be considered appropriate. Bismarck intentionally kicked another player in the head and only got 4? Other NZ players guilty of similar indiscretions either got no bans or the lightest possible ban. I cannot reconcile any of these decisions fairly or see a consistent pattern. It seems SANZAR were just so incensed by the initial decision that they decided to make an example of Steyn no matter what.

  • Comment 82, posted at 01.04.15 02:55:21 by Feather Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • I was hoping this was an April Fool’s joke. Oh dear.

  • Comment 83, posted at 01.04.15 02:56:17 by Feather Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • Who is this SA senior counsel Stelzner who blithely went along with this? I can only assume all 3 decision makers were following orders from above. Reminds me of the “get the Japies” fiasco.

  • Comment 84, posted at 01.04.15 03:00:51 by Feather Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 65) : If don’t believe they can. You need to be cited within a certain period after the game.

    Wow – some serious inconsistencies in punishments.

  • Comment 85, posted at 01.04.15 07:31:20 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • Rumour has it that their will be one or 2 surprises in the Sharks team this weekend.

  • Comment 86, posted at 01.04.15 08:05:35 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 86) : yes! I’m reliably informed by a secret sauce that Andre Esterhuizen will start at 12 and Frans Steyn won’t be in the team!

  • Comment 87, posted at 01.04.15 08:19:09 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 87) : Saucery! What dark majicks did you employ to divine this?

  • Comment 88, posted at 01.04.15 08:36:24 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 87) : :mrgreen: :lol:

  • Comment 89, posted at 01.04.15 08:43:27 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 87) : Patience now, :lol: :lol: :lol:

  • Comment 90, posted at 01.04.15 08:44:44 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 88) : Got to laugh at the attempt on the Sharks supporters FB page of JS helping out at hooker this weekend :mrgreen:

  • Comment 91, posted at 01.04.15 08:46:02 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • :lol:

    @robdylan (Comment 87) :
    To add to that, as I was walking ‘pon the moor yesterday, an ole crone appeared as by magic twixt the oaks.

    “Hark”, said she, “Bismark shall not do battle this weekend.” Uncanny ’twas…

  • Comment 92, posted at 01.04.15 08:48:22 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 92) : twas brillig, doubtless

  • Comment 93, posted at 01.04.15 08:49:21 by robdylan Reply
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  • Ruuuuumaz! Ruuuuumaz! (In the style of Adele)

  • Comment 94, posted at 01.04.15 08:49:45 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 93) :
    Aye, ’twas.

  • Comment 95, posted at 01.04.15 09:07:01 by Big Fish Reply
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  • Looking at it now, I think lubbe knew what he was doing. He found messam guilty, so u can’t appeal for him to be founded guilty lol. Since that was done and dusted. And by ruling not guilty on frans he left it open for an appeal on that ruling. Frans was doomed from the start. Saru was waiting for the opportune time to pay him back for dropping them last year. I wouldn’t be surprised if they called that nz lawyer who appealed this decision and set him up to it. I honestly don’t care anymore. From now on ima enjoy the game only. Screw the rules and rulings. Punish them don’t punish them I don’t care.

  • Comment 96, posted at 01.04.15 10:16:27 by Stiko85 Reply

    Stiko85Currie Cup player
     
  • @Stiko85 (Comment 96) : That’s probably the sanest approach to this whole mess.

  • Comment 97, posted at 01.04.15 11:33:21 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    vanmartinAssistant coach
     
  • So is there any official reaction to this from the Sharks or are they just keeping quiete.

  • Comment 98, posted at 01.04.15 12:37:40 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • Tip tackles break necks.

    Not comparable to a choke, a punch or a kick to the head.

    Sadly I think the distinction is lost amongst the rabid outrage. Oh well, as you were.

  • Comment 99, posted at 01.04.15 12:42:49 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 98) : They’re probably keeping mum as they don’t want Reinach and Kankowski cited retroactively :)

  • Comment 100, posted at 01.04.15 12:44:42 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 99) :
    You wanna read your second sentence again? I mean all is fair in baiting and stirring, but dont completely discard your credibility in doing so.

  • Comment 101, posted at 01.04.15 12:46:01 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 99) : Don’t think anyone’s comparing the offenses but rather the lack of punishment in some cases. They’re not equally dangerous acts but they are still all dangerous to some degree. It’s the lack of consistency that’s being called into question here. If we’re looking for a more direct comparison, the spear tackle on Pollard in the Bulls vs Force game only be punished by a penalty, though probably not as dangerous as Steyn’s tackle, is still a point worth raising.

  • Comment 102, posted at 01.04.15 12:57:56 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 99) : And how about a shoulder charge to the neck, I could also argue that that breaks necks.

  • Comment 103, posted at 01.04.15 13:05:55 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 100) : :lol: I thought we were so deep in the dwang that there is no reason to pussyfoot around the SANZAR ringpieces anymore, you have just set me straight.

  • Comment 104, posted at 01.04.15 13:07:57 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 103) :
    How about a kick to the head on a prone player? A kick with any weight behind it could kill or paralyze someone.

    We’ve got to be wary of trivializing foul play merely to make a point – even though I am sure that wasn’t the intention.

  • Comment 105, posted at 01.04.15 13:08:10 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 99) :

    Given the fact that Frans Steyn attempted a tackle and was not malicious in is intent, I would say all three you mentioned should be punished to a higher degree than the tip tackle.

    Steyn should be punished, no doubt, but compared to a guy who choked someone (not as part of a tackle), aimed a clean at a players head and lets not forget the guy who “accidentally” kneed Cobus Reinach in the back, the punishment Steyn got is too much.

    On it’s own I don’t think weeks for the type of tip that tackle ended up being is so bad, but considering the penalties other players in the same game and other players making the same kind or even worse tackles has been given in the past, I think this was a bit unfair.

  • Comment 106, posted at 01.04.15 13:08:21 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 103) : Especially when that shoulder charge is done by an international class practitioner of Kung Fu.

  • Comment 107, posted at 01.04.15 13:19:33 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • One need look no further than this case to see the inconsistency being exhibited by SANZAR. Two SANZAR officials thought the Steyn tackle only deserved a yellow card (Lubbe and the TMO), while 2 thought it deserved a red card (referee and assistant referee). Then the SANZAR appeal yields 5 weeks ban (4 match). Clearly there is a huge problem with the way this law is being interpreted and dealt with within SANZAR.

  • Comment 108, posted at 01.04.15 13:29:13 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • Hard luck Frans. It’s a bullshit sanction if you ask me. Anyway, think management must think outside the box. Bring someone like Lionel Cronje in to improve our distribution at 12.

  • Comment 109, posted at 01.04.15 13:32:15 by GreatSharksays Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • So by general consensus the ban to Steyn of 4 games is way too harsh and very biased considering Sanzar decided not to appeal either the choke hold or shoulder charge. The question is can anything be done about it? My guess is probably nothing so life must go on and Steyn can take a nice long Easter break

  • Comment 110, posted at 01.04.15 13:32:53 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 105) : Not trivializing anything, fact is, in the same game Beast got a shoulder to the neck, the player was red carded and got an extra week – the result of that shoulder charge could also potentially have broken Beasts neck ie the same outcome that Vinnie is coupling to Steyns tackle. The shoulder charrge was aimed and intentional, I doubt Steyns tackle was.

  • Comment 111, posted at 01.04.15 13:34:42 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 111) : Agreed – Bakkies got two weeks for the cleanout that dislocated Jones’s shoulder. This dude directly attacks Beast’s neck and gets only one week??

  • Comment 112, posted at 01.04.15 13:40:13 by Bokhoring Reply
    Administrator
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 110) : I could actually live with the duration of the ban to be honest. I just dislike dangerous play, whether it’s intentional or not. My biggest gripe is I want to see other acts of dangerous play punished as well. Only way to discourage it to a greater degree.

  • Comment 113, posted at 01.04.15 13:43:17 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 113) : Yeh i think thats what we all want- some consistency both with the bans etc but also with the TMO calls. I mean fair play if Steyn;’s tackle warrants a ban but then so should every spear tackle- some have just been a penalty. I personally think a choke on the ground so warrant a far more serious ban than a spear tackle. A spear tackle happens in the moment of a high paced game. That choke was malicious and intentional. The past 2 or 3 years have been really bad with the consistency and it detracts from the Super rugby product more than the billion teams they keep adding

  • Comment 114, posted at 01.04.15 14:05:03 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • Foul play is foul play. If you want to get rid of this rubbish have a standard sanction for foul play irrespective of circumstances.

    Punch – 2 weeks
    Gouge – 6 weeks
    Tip tackle – 4 weeks
    Shoulder charge – 2 weeks

    etc.

    Degree of intent is impossible to measure and consistently applied. Remove it from the equation.

  • Comment 115, posted at 01.04.15 14:06:50 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 115) : That would mean common sense needs to prevail…thats totally unacceptable. haha

  • Comment 116, posted at 01.04.15 14:18:01 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • This is pathetic, time to drop the SH teams and start playing the NH teams. :twisted:

  • Comment 117, posted at 01.04.15 14:27:26 by sharkingmad Reply

    sharkingmadUnder 21 player
     
  • So what now? Sithole back in? Esterhuizen? Whats the contingency plan? SARU will never contest SANZAR since they are uttely useless. Only way is to leave SANZAR and start playing in the NH competitions. Then lets see how great SANZAR feels about having to play sub standard competition and losing a shitload of revenue.

  • Comment 118, posted at 01.04.15 14:56:25 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Morné (Comment 115) : Incorrect!!! FOUL play is only Foul play when a south african commits it. Unbiased and fair ruling is non-existent, so is proper process that’s why they have to appeal their own decision. You must be insane to try and classify this one as black and white. Justice depends on the premise that all will be treated equally, this is clearly not the case…

  • Comment 119, posted at 01.04.15 14:59:02 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 87) : is that secret sauce by any chance monkey gland sauce?

  • Comment 120, posted at 01.04.15 15:01:18 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Morné (Comment 115) : Hammer. Nail. Head. 100% agreed.

  • Comment 121, posted at 01.04.15 15:02:13 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 115) : And of course it has the added benefit of serving as some teams’ unofficial rotation policy.

  • Comment 122, posted at 01.04.15 15:05:14 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 122) : Our bad apples exposed themselves and got their subsequent time off.

    I don’t mind the Sharks having to play without Frans, I do mind the severity of his punishment when measured against the punishment of similar and worse infringements.

  • Comment 123, posted at 01.04.15 15:31:05 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 123) : Perfectly sums up my own feelings on the matter

  • Comment 124, posted at 01.04.15 15:34:28 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 106) :

    Letgo,

    Now you’re just talking nonsense.

    4 weeks for a tip tackle is standard practice.
    Just off the top of my head, Kruis got 3 weeks for a benign one in the 6N this year, Nick de Luca originally got 13 weeks, Pisi got 6 weeks in 2013, Savea form the Canes also got 4 games in 2013, Baker from the Canes got 6 weeks recently, McCalman got 2 weeks earlier in the season, through previous good behaviour.

    Steyn has a reputation and is a repeat offender. Even then his ban isnt harsh.

    None of you crying about this ban are looking at it objectively or even bothering to do any research. Easier to just wail on and on and on about it.
    I expect this from Bulls fans, not from the supposedly less rabid, better-educated, more level-headed folk from Natal.

  • Comment 125, posted at 01.04.15 15:35:05 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 123) :

    Yeah, except you’re not bothering to actually compare it.

  • Comment 126, posted at 01.04.15 15:40:52 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 115) :

    Thats the way its done in League.

  • Comment 127, posted at 01.04.15 15:42:30 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 126) : How many tip tackles in SR got 5 weeks (4 games) suspension in 2015?

    Off the ball kick to the head by Bismarck gets exactly the same suspension as a tip tackle? Off the ball foul play should be dealt with with far greater severity than those in general play. :roll:

  • Comment 128, posted at 01.04.15 15:46:49 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 128) :

    Are you being deliberately obtuse?

    The two aren’t comparable.
    A kick to the head isnt great – but a tip tackle leaves people f’ing paralysed.

  • Comment 129, posted at 01.04.15 15:56:47 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 128) :

    I dunno – how many? You seem to know.
    There were a few last year. And wow, most were kiwis.

    But lets not let facts get in the way of your hip-shooting.

  • Comment 130, posted at 01.04.15 15:57:30 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 129) : @VinChainSaw (Comment 130) : Wow…calm down sailor, I guess you’re not very open to discussion here, my mistake.

  • Comment 131, posted at 01.04.15 16:07:28 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 131) :

    Dude, im very calm. Just tired of the uninformed BS that seems to permeate this subject of late, and no longer biting my lip in respect of some of the ridiculous comments defending this behaviour.

    Do your homework and then we can have a proper debate. Right now you’re just whining, without a leg to stand on. You don’t have the basics, or anything except your opinion that a kick is so much worse than a tip tackle. Its not, and the rules reflect this, as does the precedents set previously, some of which i listed above.
    You dont seem to know the laws of the game, the instructions handed to referees over the last few years and even seem woefully ignorant as to the scale of the punishment meted out for previous tip tackles.

    I’m happy to have a debate, based on knowledge of the actual subject matter, not emotional pleas. You seem a nice guy, but this is nonsense.

    BTW – lets consider something for a second. If Steyn was not found guilty because he wasn’t the only one in the tackle, what do you think would develop in the world of rugby? Do you think they’d carry on as they are, or do you think coaches and players will wise up and realise they cant get banned if they have a maatjie with them in the tackle?

  • Comment 132, posted at 01.04.15 16:16:55 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • And just to completely labour the point – tip tackles can lead to a lifetime in a wheelchair.
    A kick to the face can lead to stitches and a scar.

  • Comment 133, posted at 01.04.15 16:34:22 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 132) : Surely I do not have to be educated on all the rules of the game to be allowed to raise my “emotional” opinion.

    My opinion will not change the rules of the game, and I purely give it on here to add to-, or detract from- the discussion.

    Irrespective of the rules of the game, I see off the ball infringements as requiring more severe consequences (my personal opinion, which I never intended as fact)….ban Steyn (or anybody else) 4 games for a tip tackle, then 8 weeks should have been handed to someone like Bismarck.

    I understand that a tip tackle is very dangerous, rugby in general is a dangerous sport. A few years ago a teenager at Affies was paralysed when a scrum collapsed (and it has probably happened many more times)…it forms a part of general play, as apposed to someone who suffers an injury from receiving an off the ball kick to the head, or an off the ball shoulder charge, or an off the ball choke hold. – My personal uneducated emotional opinion.

  • Comment 134, posted at 01.04.15 16:41:53 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 132) : @VinChainSaw (Comment 133) : Ok I don’t comment often but do read every post and what I gathered from most is consistency from sanzar yes tip tackle is dangerous but the force guy that tipped pollard got nothing and Liam nothing for choking a player how does that differ last time I checked choking some one long enough leads to death and he got nothing think that is what’s upsetting most people just my 2 cents worth

  • Comment 135, posted at 01.04.15 16:43:49 by sharks4eve2013 Reply

    sharks4eve2013Under 21 player
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 134) : Nicely said bud

  • Comment 136, posted at 01.04.15 16:47:20 by sharks4eve2013 Reply

    sharks4eve2013Under 21 player
     
  • @sharks4eve2013 (Comment 135) :

    Choking doesnt paralyse people. He’d have to choke him for several minutes before there was even a little bit of damage done.

    Am I going crazy here?

  • Comment 137, posted at 01.04.15 16:57:31 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 134) :

    No, you probably dont need to know what youre talking about to have an opinion. A valid one, perhaps, but no, just to have an opinion you actually require very little knowledge on the subject.

    Its okay though, you’re in good company it seems.

  • Comment 138, posted at 01.04.15 17:00:23 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 138) : There will be plenty more tip tackles, and plenty more off the ball incidents to discuss….and most career ending injuries will still happen in general play within the boundaries of the laws of the game.

  • Comment 139, posted at 01.04.15 17:07:22 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 139) :

    On that we do agree.

  • Comment 140, posted at 01.04.15 17:29:12 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 123) : @vanmartin (Comment 124) : That’s exactly my view too…

  • Comment 141, posted at 01.04.15 17:59:09 by pastorshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Administrator
    pastorsharkCoach
     
  • Did anyone catch this April Fool’s?
    http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_40541,00.html

  • Comment 142, posted at 01.04.15 19:28:40 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 137) : I haven’t seen anyone say that choking paralyses people and that Messam should therefore get as much as Bismarck and Steyn. I certainly don’t think so. But it does seem arbitrary and inconsistent if Messam is found guilty of an action that meets the red card threshold, but is given NOUGHT weeks for that. It’s the sort of thing which will always raise the ire of supporters on the receiving end…

  • Comment 143, posted at 01.04.15 19:35:58 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 143) : I also question the finding that Messam’s arm slipped up in the tackle…the choke looked quite deliberate to me. Given SANZAR’s explanation of their appeal released today, is that not an error in fact that could be appealed?

  • Comment 144, posted at 01.04.15 19:37:40 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 144) : I also think that Hika Elliot’s action was not just about being a shoulder charge, but where he planted his shoulder on the receiving player. Surely shoulder charging into a prostrate player’s neck counts as very dangerous, even on the “is there a chance that it will paralyse him” scale, and should warrant something more than the slap on the wrist 1 week. I am not saying that I am right for sure. I am saying that it is not totally ludicrous to ask these questions…

  • Comment 145, posted at 01.04.15 19:46:41 by pastorshark Reply
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  • As far as losing Frans goes…in my view, he is a player we could afford to lose. We have depth in that position and I’m happy to see Andre and Heimar get more game time. I just hope it gets our guys to FOCUS and doesn’t distract them!!

  • Comment 146, posted at 01.04.15 19:51:16 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 145) : Agree 100%. It is very dangerous.

  • Comment 147, posted at 01.04.15 20:29:16 by Bokhoring Reply
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    BokhoringAssistant coach
     
  • Pretty amazing how contented many here were last week when there was a complete lack of justice, versus how outraged the same now are over unequal justice. Unequal justice whilst not ideal, is surely better than no justice at all.

    Do you guys really care more about your team’s prospects than a player’s safety? Do you subscribe to the viewpoint that there are no principles, only interest?

    If so, your moral framework needs a rethink.

  • Comment 148, posted at 02.04.15 04:45:30 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 148) : In fairness you should back and read all the comments last week again…not everyone was as you describe it in your comment. Rob made his views quite clear in his article. And many spoke of the fact that we had not (and to this point still have not) seen the additional footage that convinced Jannie Lubbe to say it was in fact not a dangerous tackle. It is therefore a bit rich to climb up on that high horse…

  • Comment 149, posted at 02.04.15 13:03:22 by pastorshark Reply
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  • I believe SANZAR will share the full justification for this over the next few days,

  • Comment 150, posted at 02.04.15 13:14:08 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @pastorshark (Comment 143) :

    Mate, with all due respect, you’re putting words in my mouth.

    I never accused anybody of saying that – but yet repeatedly the two offences have been compared, as if they are the same thing. They very definitely arent, but that doesnt seem to stop posters here continually trying to compare the offences.

  • Comment 151, posted at 02.04.15 14:42:30 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @pastorshark (Comment 149) :

    But the vast majority was in that camp fyndraai.
    In that “everybody hates us because of apartheid” mindset. Of course without fact-checking whatsoever.

  • Comment 152, posted at 02.04.15 14:48:40 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 152) : I think the point being missed here is that we had an offence it was given a red card,we had a tribunal hearing and the player was exonerated and found not guilty.This was a Sanazar sanctioned tribunal,presumably adhering to all the rules and regulations.
    But and here is the bone of contention,for the first time this tribunal is overridden and the player goes from not gullty to five weeks suspension. From squeaky clean to aserious offender.
    What is going on here,come off the field, that happened and was recorded.
    What is on trial here is the first tribunal,were they incompetent,or were they cynical,or were they dishonest..
    Whatever it is we have a right to know,and the people on that tribunal who were probably very well paid shouldn’t bellowed to sit on another one,because they just aren’t good enough

  • Comment 153, posted at 02.04.15 15:06:11 by The hound Reply
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  • But rest assured nothing will happen to them,just like the biased,referees,incompetent linesmen and atrocious T.MO.’s.These are the people who are destroying this game.

  • Comment 154, posted at 02.04.15 15:08:44 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 153) :

    I agree the process was an absolute farce. Of that we are in complete and utter agreement.

    But that’s not what most are complaining about, not on here at least. At least thats not the people that im having a go at.
    I’m criticising those that claim 4 games is an inordinately long time and outside the realms of the normal. Its furthemore those self same poeple that are up in arms and screaming conspiracy and saffas ae being victimised etc..

    The part that i dont undertsand is why nobody has questioned why Lubbe still has a job.

  • Comment 155, posted at 02.04.15 16:16:07 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 155) : I prefer my question did Sanzar find Lubbe,to be incompetent or dishonest,must be one of the two.

  • Comment 156, posted at 02.04.15 20:08:15 by The hound Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 133) : Are you serious…go read this again @Big Fish (Comment 101) :

  • Comment 157, posted at 02.04.15 23:59:45 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 149) :

    Don’t worry about the “additional footage”. From the review panel’s ruling we may safely assume that it was nonsense.

    Agree on “not all” and on Rob being above reproach. I spake to the “many” that were not. Nothing personal, I believe most people mean to be good and just, but often they need some guidance on how to be.
    ;-)

  • Comment 158, posted at 03.04.15 02:17:06 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 156) :

    It’s not necessarily one of those two. To err is human.

    In the real world judges make a fair number of mistakes also. In the moment people may be swayed by a clever argument, a convincing witness or a personal bias. That’s why there are appeals courts and review panels.

  • Comment 159, posted at 03.04.15 02:25:17 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 159) : So he was swayed in the moment to go from a verdict of completly innocent,to criminally liable
    .I presume that this is not the first panel he has chaired,.
    Sanzar have come out here as strongly against Lubbe and the South African arm of their citing body as they have against Steyn.
    So once again did they find Lubbe incompetent or dishones.t

  • Comment 160, posted at 03.04.15 06:32:24 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 160) :

    You are being nonsensical. Lubbe was not on trial and there was no finding against him. Nothing criminal has been considered (that we know of). If you want my opinion, I would lean towards dishonest. It seems to be an all too common trait in South Africa.

  • Comment 161, posted at 03.04.15 19:22:54 by fyndraai Reply
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