robdylan

Picking up the pieces


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks, Super Rugby on 20 Apr 2015 at 15:01
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How do the Sharks go about salvaging something from a 2015 season that has, frankly, been nothing short of a disaster? With the benefit of a bye week (and the opportunity to take stock) followed by a tough tour on which nobody should rightly expect them to pick up any wins, could this be the opportunity for the Sharks to start making some sensible decisions?

We need to be clear: there is simply no chance of a meaningful recovery from here. With away games against the Highlanders, Hurricanes and Waratahs coming up next, the Sharks will not find themselves having anything to play for by the time their somewhat easier fixtures against the Reds and Rebels come around later next month. Rather, the goal should be to make steady improvements with a young team on tour, aiming for a competitive showing in Brisbane and – dare we dream? – a big win over the Rebels on their return to Kings Park. The team should forego the result of the next three games, in other words, and rather focus on incremental improvements in their game, with an eye to the future.

Building the spine of a young team that can compete in this year’s Currie Cup, playing the fabled “attractive brand of rugby”, must surely be the goal.

Inevitably, there are going to be tough choices made. The coaches are going to have to be bold and make some big calls. Here are just a few of the things I’d like them to consider:

- Franco Marais missed a few lineouts against the Bulls, but has done enough otherwise to show that he may just be the future at hooker post Bismarck. I understand that the big Bok has to tour and will probably regain his starting berth at some point, but please, let’s ensure that Marais continues to grow as well by giving him ample game time on tour.

- No tour spot for Matt Stevens, please. It was an interesting experiment, but it hasn’t worked and we need to call time on it.

- Etienne Oosthuizen is not a flank; what’s more, he’s about the only promising young option we have at 4 lock. While it breaks my heart to say it, we need to leave Giant Mtayanda at home (since he’s not really “ours”) and pick Etienne to start every game on tour. Mouritz Botha, lovely as he is, is a stopgap and not the man we need for the future.

- Since we’re not going to have the du Preez twins available (and Tera Mtembu still seems to be in doubt), we should be sure to take at least one promising young loose forward on tour. Khaya Majola gets my vote, since we have absolutely no other cover for Marcell Coetzee at 6 and we know he’s not going to play Currie Cup.

- Stefan Ungerer has to tour as the back up scrumhalf. Conrad Hoffmann is another player in whom we have already invested too much and cannot consider any more.

- Fred Zeilinga is in the Franco Marais category, to an extent. We need to look past a poor performance against the Bulls and back the player to improve through more game time. Fred has been jerked around by a succession of coaches and his confidence must be low. We need to fix that, because we have no other backup to Pat Lambie.

- Andre Esterhuizen is the future at 12 and he needs to stay there, regardless of Frans Steyn’s availability. S’bura Sithole and Paul Jordaan must obviously also tour as outside centre options meaning no room for Waylon Murray on the plane.

- Fullback is a position of real concern and I would love to use the tour to blood a new option in this position; however, candidates are hardly lining up around the block. Perhaps Jordaan could be given four games in the number 15 jersey to see how he does? After all, there really is nothing to lose.



182 Comments

  • In a perfect world Rob… in a perfect world. :???: Sigh.. One can only hope. If at least 4 of your 8 wishes do come true, I’ll be satisfied.

  • Comment 1, posted at 20.04.15 15:07:25 by Another Nick Reply
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  • @Another Nick (Comment 1) : I’ll be happy with 2

  • Comment 2, posted at 20.04.15 15:07:52 by robdylan Reply
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  • Perhaps Frans can be used from fullback while we look to identify a new replacement.

  • Comment 3, posted at 20.04.15 15:13:43 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • how’s this?

    9 Cobus
    10 Fred
    11 Lwazi
    12 Andre
    13 S’bura
    14 JPP
    15 Jordaan

  • Comment 4, posted at 20.04.15 15:14:41 by robdylan Reply
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  • 21 Ungerer, 22 Steyn, 23 Wilson

  • Comment 5, posted at 20.04.15 15:15:52 by robdylan Reply
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  • I concur, we cannot afford to have the likes of Stevens, Murray and Hoffman on tour; how they have been given game time, let alone continuous game time is frankly bizarre.

  • Comment 6, posted at 20.04.15 15:18:20 by Richard Reply

    RichardCurrie Cup player
     
  • I like it.

  • Comment 7, posted at 20.04.15 15:20:49 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 3) : I am of that opinion too, let him and Jordaan rotate there. Is Frans going back to Japan after SR?
    @robdylan (Comment 4) : Looks young, fast and dangerous :mrgreen:

  • Comment 8, posted at 20.04.15 15:22:10 by RedSharkUtd82 Reply

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  • Give me a cheque book

  • Comment 9, posted at 20.04.15 15:22:26 by JarsonX Reply
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  • Any news on the injury front? Odwa? Did anyone else get injured Saturday?

  • Comment 10, posted at 20.04.15 15:24:21 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 4) : @robdylan (Comment 5) : Now THAT is a backline. And would also like to see how Jordaan does at 15. For a guy that flourishes in broken play and space, 15 may just be the position for him. Would also solve the nr.13 Sbu/Jordaan conundrum. Just wondering, how good is his boot?

  • Comment 11, posted at 20.04.15 15:25:42 by Another Nick Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 4) : @robdylan (Comment 5) : No SP Marais. I like it a lot! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 12, posted at 20.04.15 15:25:54 by Ben Reply
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  • @Another Nick (Comment 11) : Was wondering the exact same thing. How is Jordaan’s kicking?

  • Comment 13, posted at 20.04.15 15:27:16 by Ben Reply
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  • Yes to all of the above. I would be very happy with this even if we lost all the tour games. As long as each game there is improvement.

    The problem is how mental are the other fans going to be if GG does this and we lose those games? Some seriously thick skin and plenty of guts going to be needed to make these decisions.

    It’s a perfect rock and a hard place scenario where majority of supporters are demanding results at all costs with zero consideration of the future.

  • Comment 14, posted at 20.04.15 15:28:35 by gregkaos Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 4) : @robdylan (Comment 5) : Sweet dreams…

    However, our revered coaches will continue and finish the season the way they started…has-been’s and never-will-be’s (Hoffman, SP and Cronje) will be preferred to talented youngsters. :roll:

  • Comment 15, posted at 20.04.15 15:29:31 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Ben (Comment 13) : Can’t be worse than SP or Odwa’s (although Odwa got some serious flyer-miles on that one kick of his)

  • Comment 16, posted at 20.04.15 15:32:24 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 15) : Unfortunately I feel you are spot on.

  • Comment 17, posted at 20.04.15 15:32:34 by Ben Reply
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  • SP has been one of the better players for the sharks this season. Just IMO.

    But I really like the idea of Jordaan at 15 and have done since someone else on this site suggested a long time ago. We desperately need backup there.

  • Comment 18, posted at 20.04.15 15:36:39 by gregkaos Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 17) : The only fairly positive change they’ll make is bringing Jordaan in at 13 to replace Murray … I would love to see Jordaan at 15 – but what do we know :roll:

    They’ll stick Frans in at 10 (giant step backwards again), and they’ll leave SP at 15 unless Odwa recovers.

    Our coaches have nothing up their sleeves – they’re just praying that what they’ve been doing the entire season might finally pay off. :|

  • Comment 19, posted at 20.04.15 15:39:20 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @gregkaos (Comment 18) : I very strongly disagree regarding SP.

  • Comment 20, posted at 20.04.15 15:40:53 by Ben Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 19) : Frans at 10 = disaster.

  • Comment 21, posted at 20.04.15 15:42:30 by Ben Reply
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  • Hoffman at 9
    Frans at 10
    Murray at 13
    SP at 15

    All horrible, tragic, atomic, catastrophic disasters! :roll:

  • Comment 22, posted at 20.04.15 15:44:57 by Ben Reply
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  • I am loathe to take the baby with bathwater approach.

    Sure things are not great, and there are obviously reasons for this. Just from experience changing small things have a big impact. Changing big things creates a big impact.

  • Comment 23, posted at 20.04.15 15:45:17 by Morné Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 20) : I am aware of that.

  • Comment 24, posted at 20.04.15 15:48:26 by gregkaos Reply
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  • @gregkaos (Comment 24) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 25, posted at 20.04.15 15:49:30 by Ben Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 23) : What do you think requires tweaking?

    …I would imagine that Gert Smal was able to suggest minor changes at the Stormers, and thereby able to ensure an immediate turnaround in results last year when he arrived.

  • Comment 26, posted at 20.04.15 15:52:40 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • Rebels are very unpredictable…. picked against them vs. the Brumbies, and got burned. It’s a really tough tour. Anything is possible, but maybe the Reds are a safe bet.

  • Comment 27, posted at 20.04.15 15:53:00 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • Who is your most critical players in a backline – IMO 9, 10 and 15. After SR Reinach will probably be with the Boks, Steyn will either be back in Japan or perhaps even with the Boks, Lambie will definitely be with the Boks. Will Odwa still be playing next year?

    We urgently need to find long term backup at 9, 10 and a more consistent option at 15. I think it would be daft to move Steyn to 10, and have Hoffmann as 9 backup.

  • Comment 28, posted at 20.04.15 15:53:40 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 27) : And that’s a very big MAYBE.

  • Comment 29, posted at 20.04.15 15:54:35 by Ben Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 27) : Rebels will be at Kings Park at least.

  • Comment 30, posted at 20.04.15 15:55:15 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • Odwa apparently has mild concussion.

    I don’t know what that means in terms of him touring.

  • Comment 31, posted at 20.04.15 15:57:14 by robdylan Reply
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  • I like the very wishful thinking and optimism in this article. Pity reality will bite and none will happen.

  • Comment 32, posted at 20.04.15 16:01:33 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 26) :

    Well the first thing is players do not become shit all of a Sunday.

    Young team or not, these guys are better than what is seen on the pitch every game.

    There is very little doubt the confidence of not only the players but coaching staff is shot to shit.

    It is a simple enough place to start.

    The greatest leaders are the ones that stand tall when the kak hits the fan, not when all is conquered.

    The character of this union is now being tested, how they respond (mentally) will define this union for the next 12 months.

    Working in the rugby industry, either as a player or administrator is the greatest job on earth, these okes just forgot it – they need to enjoy what they do again.

  • Comment 33, posted at 20.04.15 16:02:56 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 33) :

    In short – before you sort any system or game plan or selection issue out, get your heads back into the game.

  • Comment 34, posted at 20.04.15 16:04:59 by Morné Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 31) : Great ideas and suggestions Rob.

    Please do a follow up article in 4 weeks or so and see how many have been implemented. It would make for very interesting reading.

  • Comment 35, posted at 20.04.15 16:07:00 by StevieS Reply
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  • It’s strange because winning 2 or 3 games builds momentum and confidence. And even though the crusaders game must have dented their self belief we might forget that focus was already slipping before then. Maybe I’m being unkind and it’s just the first bulls game (and the unfavourable refereeing), the crusaders implosion and the chiefs street fight and the fallout from that that set these guys back. They are human after all.

  • Comment 36, posted at 20.04.15 16:38:18 by SeanJeff Reply
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  • If we win a game on tour I think I will poop out a brick, but I will do it happily

  • Comment 37, posted at 20.04.15 16:40:19 by SeanJeff Reply
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  • @[email protected] Think your wish will come true. Heard along the grapevine that SP is injured and will be out for quite a while. Interesting fact is that he is rated as one of the top 3 fullbacks in the whole of SuperRugby so far. Maybe you must familiarize yourself with his stats and then compare it with the others you so badly want as replacement for him in the team.

  • Comment 38, posted at 20.04.15 16:42:39 by Coco Reply

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  • @Coco (Comment 38) : that’s unfortunate for him. Never nice for a player to get injured.

    Also not sure what the rating is on – probably not taking high balls, based on Saturday’s evidence.

  • Comment 39, posted at 20.04.15 16:51:41 by robdylan Reply
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  • According to @TheRugbyNet SP is rated one of the top 3 In Form Fullbacks in Super Rugby so far. No 4 in metres gained; No 2 in loose ball collected; no6 in offloads….

  • Comment 40, posted at 20.04.15 17:05:30 by Coco Reply

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  • @Coco (Comment 38) : One of the top 3? Are you kidding me? Rated by who? :roll:

  • Comment 41, posted at 20.04.15 17:05:56 by Ben Reply
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  • *sigh*

  • Comment 42, posted at 20.04.15 17:07:29 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Coco (Comment 40) : I’m not going to get into petty character assassination, so I’ll rather just leave that there

  • Comment 43, posted at 20.04.15 17:09:21 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Coco (Comment 40) : Load of horse shit in my opinion, sorry.

  • Comment 44, posted at 20.04.15 17:10:05 by Ben Reply
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  • @Coco (Comment 40) : But I am sorry to hear about his injury. Not a nice way to go out.

  • Comment 45, posted at 20.04.15 17:14:43 by Ben Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 33) : I reckon Fred’s missed kick vs. the Lions produced what we saw from him on Saturday…had he slotted that kick, he would have had the game of his life vs. the Bulls as his confidence would have been through the roof.

  • Comment 46, posted at 20.04.15 17:26:50 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 43) : I’m not sure why we can’t critique a player’s performance without it being seen as a personal attack.

  • Comment 47, posted at 20.04.15 17:28:12 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 47) : well, when those who are personally close to the player in question see fit to wade into the debate, it becomes hard to separate

  • Comment 48, posted at 20.04.15 17:49:06 by robdylan Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 47) : Not that it’s my business but…

    “Critiquing is a detailed analysis and assessment of something.” This can be positive or negative.

    “Criticism is the expression of disapproval of someone or something on the basis of perceived faults or mistakes.”

    “Character assassination is an attempt to tarnish a person’s reputation. It may involve exaggeration, misleading half-truths, or manipulation of facts to present an untrue picture of the targeted person.”

    Something like “Player X is shit” is not in any shape or form a critique.

  • Comment 49, posted at 20.04.15 17:52:01 by gregkaos Reply
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  • @gregkaos (Comment 49) : You are right, and a critique would normally come from somebody better qualified…(like Mallet :roll: )

    So I guess I should have said “criticise”…which is also not meant as a personal attack…I’m sure a guy like SP is a very decent, well mannered bloke…just as a fullback that he’s being criticised.

    Character Assassination is what you’d typically find on E! and People Magazine and SA Rugby :twisted:

  • Comment 50, posted at 20.04.15 18:00:07 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 50) : Yes exactly! As I copy pasted the char assassin part I immediately thought of some of the posters on keo’s old site. Flip some of those guys…

  • Comment 51, posted at 20.04.15 18:07:20 by gregkaos Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 50) : Criticism is good too. We are posters after all and don’t go into depth why we believe a particular player is kak.

    I do suspect that Rob’s spidey sense picks up when a topic is heading in a dangerous direction. Probably the reason there is so little char assassination on SW compared with other sites.

  • Comment 52, posted at 20.04.15 18:10:53 by gregkaos Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 48) : Seems the players are better equipped to deal with the pressures of fame than those around them…understandable I guess.

  • Comment 53, posted at 20.04.15 18:12:37 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @gregkaos (Comment 52) : Which is why this is my preferred rugby hangout…I don’t feel the need for a bath after reading the comments. :grin:

  • Comment 54, posted at 20.04.15 18:15:52 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • Considering the results in this year’s SR, the Sharks and Bulls should be feeling very confident, they have plenty of away games left.
    This weekend alone 6/7 away teams won ;-)
    Home ground advantage doesn’t mean much in 2015…..it’s the Stormers with 5 home games left who should be worrying

  • Comment 55, posted at 20.04.15 18:22:59 by deano Reply

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  • @Richard (Comment 6) :

    They should all be playing for Sharks XV or not at all for the Sharks

  • Comment 56, posted at 20.04.15 18:30:15 by [email protected] Reply

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  • @[email protected] (Comment 56) : no, they bloody shouldn’t.

    The Sharks XV MEANS SOMETHING. It’s too good for these guys.

  • Comment 57, posted at 20.04.15 18:38:13 by robdylan Reply
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  • The problems at the Sharks are due to team issues. They need to focus on the things that are/were a detriment to the team dynamic and on the people in a position to improve it.

    Which player plays where, for the rest of the season is unimportant. CC is unimportant. Rather Gary Gold should use the time to implement his preferred playing style throughout all teams in the union. Create some standards and guidelines for each position. Evaluate the assistant coaches. Decide which, if any, of them to retain.

    End the relationship with Venter. Part time, remote coaching was always a bad idea. They would want 100% commitment from everyone.

    Any and all players that were leaders in the, getting rid of Jake White effort, last year probably needs to go also. Else leftover poison will continue to undermine team dynamic.

  • Comment 58, posted at 20.04.15 19:52:19 by fyndraai Reply
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  • Funny thing criticism,when it’s aimed at Matt Stevens it seems it s all right for all and sundry to have a full go from his gut to his singing nothing is deemed to be off limits.
    The guy is being used as a replacement prop but to most here he is the single reason for all our shortcomings.The more personal the comments the better.
    But hell have a go at a guy that has played almost every game this year,and has yet to do the basics of his position right for one full quarter,but he is totally off limits.
    Play fair man,one rule for all if its alright to have a go at Stevens then its alright to have a go at S.P.

  • Comment 59, posted at 20.04.15 20:43:54 by The hound Reply
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  • @gregkaos (Comment 51) : And none worse than your old mate Grant 10 who raged a one way war of hate against John Smit for how many years

  • Comment 60, posted at 20.04.15 20:48:31 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 60) : Man I got sick of reading about “plod” :mrgreen:

  • Comment 61, posted at 20.04.15 22:57:05 by BarendL Reply
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  • Anyone remember skopskiet? Screw loose.

  • Comment 62, posted at 21.04.15 02:07:09 by Feather Reply

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  • Shit if you a sharks player and want to be depressed you just come read this thread

  • Comment 63, posted at 21.04.15 05:17:20 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 63) : shit if you’re a fan and want to be depressed all you need to do is watch the Sharks play.

    Boofuckenhoo. Players play. Fans discuss the plays. If you play like shit don’t expect your ego to be massaged.

  • Comment 64, posted at 21.04.15 05:20:57 by Feather Reply

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  • @deano (Comment 55) : :lol:

  • Comment 65, posted at 21.04.15 07:06:31 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @robdylan I don’t have a problem when people have a go at players. Your opinion is no 15 is useless. My opinion is that he is not that bad and has had a good season thus far.

  • Comment 66, posted at 21.04.15 07:11:29 by Coco Reply

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  • I love the Paul Jordaan at fullback idea. He can be groomed there from the time he is fit and during the CC. Sbura to stay at 13. Let’s bring in Cameron Wright as the reserve 9. Fred for me offers nothing more than a holding job. That is not what I want from a 10.

  • Comment 67, posted at 21.04.15 08:35:45 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • Here’s my comment on the article.
    If you took a poll you would probably get consensus from 80-95% of the people on 80-95% of what you said. In other words we would all agree that this makes sense. Most of us have been following the sharks and rugby in general for some time now and some of us have played or coached or are even currently involved in rugby. While it probably does not qualify all of us as experts it does to some degree and extent give us a better understanding and insight into the sport, its structures and required resources.

    So why with all that and all the agreement is our management and coaching staff still going 180 degrees in the opposite direction to what we are all seeing and agreeing on?

    Are we all missing a trick that these few individuals are seeing? Can everybody be wrong and these 5 or 6 or 10 guys be right? For that matter can every sports journo and other coach out there be wrong as well?

    Not out of personal dislike since I haven’t actively been following these guys’ careers when they were not involved with the sharks, do I say Matt Stevens – liability, Waylon Murray – liability, Hoffmann -liability, SP Marais – liability and not for some mystical reason does half or more of the people agree with that exactly so why in your darkest hour do you persist with liabilities?

    Is there merit to the argument of those who are calling for coaches to be chopped, what must be done for them to listen? Can anything be done? Or must we wait till the state of affairs has reached a point where the only measures left are drastic and desperate since no-one least of all the fan can change this course. Not even with sensible articles that reflect what we all feel?

  • Comment 68, posted at 21.04.15 08:38:42 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 68) : the coaches, director of rugby and even the CEO are simply way out of their depth mate. The technical director is too far away and non committal.

  • Comment 69, posted at 21.04.15 08:46:19 by Feather Reply

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  • Odwa is way past his prime too. It’s a sign of the times that we consider him to be “indispensable” now. We simply need a massive cleanse at the union. No more journeymen. No more mediocrity.

  • Comment 70, posted at 21.04.15 08:52:02 by Feather Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 4) : I like it. As bokhoring suggested can Frans Steyn not with relative security be used as a 15 and Jordaan as a wing in some scenarios he (Frans) has the tactical thinking, years of experience, the best long distance boot, with some practise a goal kicking stand in, the body and the defense what else is there?
    9 – Reinach (ungerer)
    10 – Zeilinga (cronje)
    11 – Mvovo (wilson/perez)
    12 – Esterhuizen (williams)
    13 – Sithole (jordaan, fisher)
    14 – Jordaan (jpp)
    15 – Steyn (cronje, sp)

  • Comment 71, posted at 21.04.15 08:53:25 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @fyndraai (Comment 58) : It may sound oversimplified, but I also believe these guys should spend more time with each other. The current mix is like this
    ou manne – been playing overseas for so long bonded to another team and not yet this one.
    bokke – large ego very focussed on RWC and own career and retirement plans
    mercenaries – bought from other provinces/clubs, on loan no long term commitment
    youngblood – undisciplined, unguided, unused and very soon to be uninspired
    If I look at at teams that made a huge impact, current lions RWC 95 springboks they all have one thing in common they play for each other they are spending a lot of time together. I’m not suggesting a kamp staaldraad here but they must interact a LOT more.

  • Comment 72, posted at 21.04.15 09:00:03 by coolfusion Reply

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  • Ok, so this article may have all the merit in the world and be along the lines of what all are thinking but Im sure Gold, Venter et al and the team will be approching the tour as one where they want to come back with 20 extra log points or at least 16 ie not a time to experiment or prepare the team for the Currie Cup.

  • Comment 73, posted at 21.04.15 09:00:49 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 72) : How close are you to the team?

  • Comment 74, posted at 21.04.15 09:03:00 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 74) : Admittedly not close at all. And very few of us fans are. These are my assessments as a fan and if they are wrong, then the team has done very little to convince us outsiders differently. Perception, for me is reality and no matter how many people SAY that it simply is not so, to me it is not showing therefore to me its failing. maybe not everyone agrees but you will find very many who do and that is a warning bell.

  • Comment 75, posted at 21.04.15 09:06:20 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 5) : How about Perez, any way he could turn out well with some game time or is he too uncertain?

  • Comment 76, posted at 21.04.15 09:09:57 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 73) : You may be right about their strategy, in fact I am banking on that. But that does not make their strategy the right one.

  • Comment 77, posted at 21.04.15 09:11:44 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 75) : Ok.

  • Comment 78, posted at 21.04.15 09:12:35 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 63) : Your not depressed yet – bloody hell I need whatever pills you are taking ;-) :mrgreen:

  • Comment 79, posted at 21.04.15 09:14:46 by RedSharkUtd82 Reply

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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 73) : I agree with that totally,we have hardly played with our first team the whole season,and apart from P.S.D.T and Pat we should soon have the best team available.
    I think last Saturday was probably the most depleted team we have had all season.
    Get these guys out of S.A away from the pressure cooker and the desperate expectations,into an atmosphere where nobody expects them to win and we could finally see the team we believe in.
    Put these guys in a position where they are not terrified of making mistakes and we could just be smiling again.

  • Comment 80, posted at 21.04.15 09:16:44 by The hound Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 71) : that plan works and could even be more sensible, if you look at Jordaan playing wing initially as a way to prepare for a role at fullback.

  • Comment 81, posted at 21.04.15 09:18:05 by robdylan Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 77) : If that is their strategy and they fully believe in it then it shows that their hearts and heads are in the right place (see Morne’s earlier post) If there is any doubt it will boomerang and be a wasted opportunity.

  • Comment 82, posted at 21.04.15 09:18:44 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 76) : I know nothing about the player, so this is nothing personal. My only concern is why? Why do we need to bring in yet another older guy who has never settled anywhere. What is he going to suddenly discover or prove at the Sharks that he hasn’t shown before?

  • Comment 83, posted at 21.04.15 09:19:25 by robdylan Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 80) : Sharks seems to enjoy touring more than most other teams…4 weeks together should work well in bonding these guys together.

  • Comment 84, posted at 21.04.15 09:21:00 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Coco (Comment 66) : Let me make my point in as kind a way as I possibly can.

    When a poster comes onto the site and only ever talks about one player – and gets really bent out of shape whenever somebody says anything about that one player – it’s a natural assumption that they are personally close to said player. My “nose” is pretty keenly developed after doing this for so long and I like to think I can “sniff out” a family member or close friend from a mile away.

    I don’t ever expect people who are close to the players to have an objective opinion on them. I am not objective about my sister, my wife, my children, etc, etc so why expect others to be so?

    The unfortunate reality, though, is that people in the public eye will have things said about their performance. I think there’s even a special relaxation of libel laws that applies to public figures, but that is beside the point. Reality is, we cannot and should not shy away from criticism of a player’s performance because we care about the team as a whole. We shouldn’t criticise the individual, since we don’t know the individual, but the performance is fair game.

    So by all means, your views on SP are welcome here and I’m sure we’re all interested to hear the theories and be pointed at evidence that will show us that he’s not doing as badly as we all think he is.

    I gave him credit for the two games in the season where he did play well, but I also have eyes and something of a rugby brain and have to say, with my hand on my heart, that the rest of his performances have been mediocre at best.

  • Comment 85, posted at 21.04.15 09:24:39 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 83) : What is the news on Pat’s injury,initially it was stated he had a sore shoulder,but that is some serious neck brace he is wearing.

  • Comment 86, posted at 21.04.15 09:26:17 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 86) : Last I heard was out 6 weeks with a neck injury. So it’s quite safe to say no tour for him.

  • Comment 87, posted at 21.04.15 09:29:35 by RedSharkUtd82 Reply

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  • @RedSharkUtd82 (Comment 87) : There are neck injuries and neck injuries,strain,sprain,crack,dislocation,broken??

  • Comment 88, posted at 21.04.15 09:32:33 by The hound Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 83) :
    So I agree, but then why keep him around? If he is never going to get the chance to show us if he is worthwhile and we don’t really trust that he will be why keep him around? Just another slot where a younger player could have come in to start his sharks career.

  • Comment 89, posted at 21.04.15 09:33:28 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 88) : They just said neck vertebrae (spelling) injury

  • Comment 90, posted at 21.04.15 09:38:19 by RedSharkUtd82 Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 86) : no, it was always a neck verterbra injury requiring 6 weeks’ rehab.

  • Comment 91, posted at 21.04.15 09:38:35 by robdylan Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 89) : agree

  • Comment 92, posted at 21.04.15 09:38:57 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 73) : Have we seen any evidence that players like Hoffmann, Stevens, Botha (in the last few games), Murray, etc. will contribute much to getting the team 16 log points on tour?

    I would still use the star players like Bismarck, Steyn and JPP on tour, but we should give more game time to the younger players at the same time.

  • Comment 93, posted at 21.04.15 09:42:25 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • When Bismarck comes back I want Wentzel to remain captain.

  • Comment 94, posted at 21.04.15 09:46:56 by Feather Reply

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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 82) : Not to belabor the point but even if their hearts are in the right place it still does not make it the right strategy and to me and many others it does not show their HEADS to be in the right place.

    To me and many others the right place for their heads is to build a future sharks team that will work and use this platform purely for experience and experimentation since it is unlikely to be the one where we turn things around.

    I see no reality where these guys in their present form can take on the likes of tahs canes brumbies and chiefs, I also see no reason to waste more time and bodies on the pipe dream (to be crass) of this years super 15. If we can use the valuable time, take the pressure off the guys and just let them spread their wings and so gain valuable insight for the next series.

    The guys at the Alamo also had their hearts in the right place and fully believed in their plan so did Napoleon at Waterloo, still didn’t make those strategies the right one or a fight they could have won.

  • Comment 95, posted at 21.04.15 09:49:09 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 93) : now THAT’s the sort of question we need to ask

  • Comment 96, posted at 21.04.15 09:49:43 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Feather (Comment 94) : I do too, with only one slight issue.

    Lewies is approaching fitness again. At what stage does he start at 5?

  • Comment 97, posted at 21.04.15 09:50:51 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 93) : I wouldn’t take them – leave them to play VC :mrgreen: but that’s why Im not the coach lol
    @Feather (Comment 94) : Yeah agreed.

  • Comment 98, posted at 21.04.15 09:50:56 by RedSharkUtd82 Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 95) : So what are you actually saying,leave the likes Bismark,JPP,Steyn ,Deysel at home ,and send the youngsters who can’t beat SWD to New Zealand to get slaughtered.
    I would start any of those four in any South African Super rugby team,and for me the sooner they are back the better.Simply because the options are pitiful.

  • Comment 99, posted at 21.04.15 09:55:39 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 99) : we’re going to get slaughtered anyway.

  • Comment 100, posted at 21.04.15 09:59:34 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 100) : You are a little ray of positive sunshine.
    We fielded our weakest team of the past five years on Saturday and the rampant Bulls only beat us by one try.
    I said it before here our forwards put in a helluva effort on Saturday.
    The Cheetahs,Lions and Stormers all won in Australasia,why shouldn’t we.

  • Comment 101, posted at 21.04.15 10:06:05 by The hound Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 93) : I dont think we have seen that from anyone yet, all Im saying is that I think they will take what they perceive to be their best team and not an experimental one.

  • Comment 102, posted at 21.04.15 10:08:14 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @RedSharkUtd82 (Comment 98) : It is always easier for a youngster to shine surrounded by experience, rather than in a group of youngsters being slaughtered. The coach just needs to evaluate the senior players to see if they actually did / can contribute to the team.

    However it is also important to use these youngsters from the bench, and not let them just gather splinters.

    Hence I will still have senior players such as Jannie, Bismarck, Beast, Marco (until Lewies is match fit), Alberts, Marcel, (Kanko and Deysel to lesser extent), Frans and JPP in the mix.

    However players like Du Toit, Marais / Cooper, Adriaanse, Bothma, Ungerer / Wright, Zeilinga, Esterhuizen, Sithole, Jordaan, etc needs to get plenty of game time.

    And no youngster should be blocked from a starting / bench position by a journeyman.

  • Comment 103, posted at 21.04.15 10:08:23 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 101) : Good point there. We may just have a few surprises up our sleeve..

  • Comment 104, posted at 21.04.15 10:10:55 by Another Nick Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 101) : of those performances, the only one that was against a top team (and was a genuinely unexpectedly good performance) was the Stormers beating the Waratahs.

    Lions played the blind school. We get to play two of the leading teams in the New Zealand conference.

  • Comment 105, posted at 21.04.15 10:12:17 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 105) : We also start against the two form NZ teams. Being as low in confidence as the team and coaches already are, the tour can start really badly.

  • Comment 106, posted at 21.04.15 10:16:18 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 95) : What about the Boertjies at Blood River?

  • Comment 107, posted at 21.04.15 10:18:34 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 106) : I’m not trying to be unduly negative here, but sheesh

  • Comment 108, posted at 21.04.15 10:18:47 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 103) : I hear your argument and agree to a point. The only Boks I will take with is Willem and Marcel. Dale and Lourens has enough experience in the front row to help Thomas and the like. Lewies, Oosthuizen, Willem and Marcel is quite experienced too. Backline you might have a case for Steyn and JPP.

  • Comment 109, posted at 21.04.15 10:19:10 by RedSharkUtd82 Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 105) : Rob , I think you idea is great, however it might need to be more managed. Yes totally agree with the journey men. But sending a team over with no experience wont do the youngsters any good either. In fact it could do more damage than good, as you said give the youngster more of a run especially considering that we have so many players leaving end of season. But you need some of the experienced men to be there with them.

  • Comment 110, posted at 21.04.15 10:19:44 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 107) : please don’t. Thanks

  • Comment 111, posted at 21.04.15 10:19:44 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 110) : I agree. I’m not sure I ever made a call for our experienced Boks to be left at home.

    Players like Beast, Bissie, Jannie, Marcell, Marco, Willem, Frans, JP, Lwazi, Odwa are going to be crucial on this tour.

    The guys I don’t want to see are Stevens, Murray, SP, Hoffmann, Cronje.

  • Comment 112, posted at 21.04.15 10:21:53 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 112) : Hoffman and Cronje…still coasting on their schoolboy performances.

    Although, other than Fred and Cronje, who else can play FH?

  • Comment 113, posted at 21.04.15 10:26:19 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 112) : How many players are you allowed to take on tour – 30?

  • Comment 114, posted at 21.04.15 10:27:22 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 112) : Rob how will they be crucial if you believe (and I do too) they will get slaughtered? #Justasking

  • Comment 115, posted at 21.04.15 10:29:20 by RedSharkUtd82 Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 108) : I am expecting things to get worse before they will get better. It is going to take major effort from the coaching staff and all the players to get this team out of the dumps (mentally speaking). It can be done, but it will be very difficult.

  • Comment 116, posted at 21.04.15 10:29:53 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 112) : You simply need to take the first team,and go over with the mind set that we are going to win.
    Add Bismark at his best,and he should be after probably his best rest in years,to Alberts,Marcel and Bothma,a fully recuperated Lewies,Jannie Beast and Wentzel to lead,and you show me a better pack.
    It’s not the team,its their motivation that is missing.
    Get the 9 right,either Ungerer or Wright,Frans Steyn at 10,Esterhuizen and Sithole 12 and 13,Lawazi and JPP 11 and 14 and Paul Jordan at 15,
    That is a fucken good team and it deserves our support.

  • Comment 117, posted at 21.04.15 10:35:02 by The hound Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 112) : Totally agree.
    Sometimes it just takes one or two new players to a team to give them a new edge and spark that has been missing. That said I would rather over commit myself to a new player system for future years to come as this year is a total waste as it is. We can go and lose every single game from now on to the end to collect our best group together for seasons to come.

  • Comment 118, posted at 21.04.15 10:39:04 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 114) : 28, I think

  • Comment 119, posted at 21.04.15 10:40:47 by robdylan Reply
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  • @RedSharkUtd82 (Comment 115) : taking 20 point beatings is better than 50 point beatings? Dunno, good question.

  • Comment 120, posted at 21.04.15 10:41:31 by robdylan Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 117) : I know what you saying would be great for us to actually win some games, but would you not rather give up the rest of this waste of a season to try and build a team ready for next year, if we don’t we wont have the chance to do just that next season and we will have two years in a row that we bottom of the log.
    Totally agree on our no9 that is the biggest KEY to our success. The day we have our no9 right the whole team will flow much better. No one flashy just someone who does its job dam well, Look how the Bulls game has changed since introducing Rudi Paige.

  • Comment 121, posted at 21.04.15 10:42:48 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 107) : ja agreed. I’ll also leave it since my argument is not constructive.

  • Comment 122, posted at 21.04.15 10:46:12 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 120) : I guess so.

  • Comment 123, posted at 21.04.15 10:46:50 by RedSharkUtd82 Reply

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  • At this point I would just like to see a future for the team. I really don’t care to play the strongest players currently as long as I can see some return. In my book the growth of the young guys is a far better return than taking possibly 5 of 20 points and still not making playoffs but with a battered team that can’t even play CC due to injuries working so hard to prove a point and giving their bodies to a lost cause.

    Here is my question for those who care to work it out. What is the minimum the sharks team has to do to make it to the playoffs in terms of matches won points accrued?

  • Comment 124, posted at 21.04.15 10:53:49 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 118) : agreed as well.

  • Comment 125, posted at 21.04.15 10:54:34 by coolfusion Reply

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  • Of these names thrown around ho is realistically fit and able to play the first tour match? Bissie- yes, Beast/Jannie- yes. Lewies- possibly, Coetzee- yes, Kanko – assume yes, Steyn- no, JPP- assume yes, Paul Jordaan- no. So the all Bok front row will be united. Possibility of Lewies starting, Coetzee,Alberts,Bothma to retain places with Kanko bench, 9s wont change, unlikely 10 will change, unlikely centres will change unless JPP back but he may be played at 15 if SP Marais out.

  • Comment 126, posted at 21.04.15 10:55:37 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 111) : :shock:

  • Comment 127, posted at 21.04.15 10:59:10 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 126) : Why no Steyn if I may ask?
    Also why Kanko? Has he ever played one good game since he left for Japan?
    JPP same as Kanko.

  • Comment 128, posted at 21.04.15 11:01:02 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • Ja why no Steyn? He should be fit and ready? At the moment he is the only guy that can cover almost any position in the backline except 9. I would not leave him.

  • Comment 129, posted at 21.04.15 11:03:43 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 129) : Steyn can’t start the first tour match – still banned at the time.

  • Comment 130, posted at 21.04.15 11:05:24 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 128) : @coolfusion (Comment 129) : His suspension is only over after Highlanders game I think.

  • Comment 131, posted at 21.04.15 11:06:22 by RedSharkUtd82 Reply

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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 130) :Right you are. I would really like to see Lewies and Oosthuizen get a LOT of time on tour.

  • Comment 132, posted at 21.04.15 11:07:54 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 130) : @RedSharkUtd82 (Comment 131) : Fair enough one game.

  • Comment 133, posted at 21.04.15 11:08:05 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 128) : I have been watching Tiaan Meyer,when he comes on for Sarel at the Cheetahs,he is getting back to his best,when he was such a star at Westville,he is the type of 9 we need.
    I would love to see Reinarch on the wing,one thing that boy has is gas,and a nose for the tty line.
    And just a word of caution to all those heralding the return of Paul Jordan ,remember how shite his handling was last year.

  • Comment 134, posted at 21.04.15 11:13:42 by The hound Reply
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  • Has anyone ever seen Jordaan play fullback, will he even be fit to play the fist tour game. Do you think its justified playing a chap that is just returning from a long injury out of position?

  • Comment 135, posted at 21.04.15 11:14:14 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 132) : me too, but PLEASE can Oosthuizen only play lock.

    His inability to defend at flank has proved incredibly costly two weeks in a row.

  • Comment 136, posted at 21.04.15 11:14:29 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 128) : Steyn banned till the 2nd game. I was referring to the first game- looking too far forward is silly due to injuries and with us suspensions likely. I dont think Kanko has been bad at all to be honest- he has been goo in the lineouts and has got stuck in the tight exchanges. He is a good linking player and forward that can actually pass the ball. Oh because he hasnt had 20 line breaks and run around like a back he is playing badly? Funny how when he was doing that people said he didnt get stuck into the tight exchanges enough. Im not saying he is better than Coetzee, Alberts and Bothma- but he is a better bench option at loose forward than Oosthuizen. Oosthuizen should start at lock with Lewies bench if he fit.

  • Comment 137, posted at 21.04.15 11:21:32 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 136) : yup Lewies at 5 and Oosthuizen at 4.
    What of Wentzel? Will Bismarck just come back in as capt?
    Bothma doing a great job at 8 so If we use him we lose Kanko what will our lineout options look like?

  • Comment 138, posted at 21.04.15 11:21:59 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 135) : I cant see the Sharks playing Jordaan at 15 ever. Plus can the guy even play at the moment? He had serious surgery done. If anyone id rather see Mvovo at 15

  • Comment 139, posted at 21.04.15 11:23:11 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 139) : Plum had confidence in playing Frans at 15 against the Crusaders, Racing played him there often, and 2010 he played FB regularly for the boks. I think Frans at 15 will bring much needed stability and strong defense leaving Mvovo to do what he does best. I agree fully with you Jordaan should be center or if we must experiment….a winger and having clocked a sub 11 (I think 10.7?) on 100m meters he is up there with the rest in terms of speed. I must also heed the caution the hound made…he had major handling errors the last time he returned from a lengthy layoff….so wing probably safest. I would also have liked to see him square off at wing against business in front party in the back, hougaard I think he would have been shrewd enough to handle tricky customers on wing.

  • Comment 140, posted at 21.04.15 11:49:54 by coolfusion Reply

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  • I think the Sharks might just provide some positives on tour.

    Nothing to lose… backs against the wall… wounded pride…

  • Comment 141, posted at 21.04.15 12:16:54 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 140) : I agree with the Steyn at 15 idea- i still think thats his best position. Jordaan is either a 11, 14, 13. I wouldnt play him anywhere else. However coming off this kind of injury id play him in the VC for at least 3-4 weeks prior to assess him. And just an aside- Zeilinga looks like a scared kid these days. Id throw in Cronje and give him a few games to prove himself.

  • Comment 142, posted at 21.04.15 12:20:01 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 142) : Judging by the VC team, it will do his confidence more harm than good playing for them.

    Ideally though, that should be his return path – but them VC boys seem to have an even more poisonous environment than the SR team. :shock:

  • Comment 143, posted at 21.04.15 12:26:00 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 137) : I don’t have an issue with him as a Bench player at all. However his game has definitely gone backwards since he started playing in Japan. Now it all comes back to the question, don’t you rather want to expose a youngster for the last 20min so he gains enough experience for our campaign next year?

  • Comment 144, posted at 21.04.15 12:26:16 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 141) : Most likely, like always, too little too late.

  • Comment 145, posted at 21.04.15 12:26:59 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 143) : Yea the whole Sharks setup is currently a serious issue.

  • Comment 146, posted at 21.04.15 12:28:26 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 143) : Yeh that VC team…hmmm They basically need to sort their Sh*t out. Drop the egos and perform. But that is where Jordaan needs to play. Him and Williams in midfield. @Uli Boelie (Comment 144) : Kanko not in top 3 loosies at the moment but ill take him over any youngster we have at the moment. Not one youngster comes to mind that id replace him with. Planning for the future also involves creating a winning environment at present not just throwing kids in that arent up to it

  • Comment 147, posted at 21.04.15 12:37:18 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • Play the youngsters, if you don’t have the mental capacity to get up after a bad loss, you don’t have the mental capacity to play professional sport.

  • Comment 148, posted at 21.04.15 12:52:58 by Southern_Shark Reply
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  • @Southern_Shark (Comment 148) : Just curious which youngsters you referring to? Apart from scrumhalf

  • Comment 149, posted at 21.04.15 13:01:31 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 149) : ANY front ranker is a youngster compared to Stevens…

  • Comment 150, posted at 21.04.15 13:04:07 by Culling Song Reply
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  • @Feather (Comment 70) :

    well being relegated did seem to help the Lions .. sure we only beat crap teams but we do better than the cheetahs … so yea :P

  • Comment 151, posted at 21.04.15 13:21:27 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Culling Song (Comment 150) : With Beast, Jannie, Chadwick, Adriaanse and to a limited (due to Junior RWC) extent DuToit I think Stevens should rather be “helping” the VC side. But besides Stevens out- which youngsters?

  • Comment 152, posted at 21.04.15 13:22:45 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 152) : Not this season but I think Jaco v Tonder Neil Maritz and Tyler Fisher for the backline also would be nice to expose Radebe maybe some pre CC games or friendlies? On the front row I would have liked to see the du Preez boys or at least one of them take an official step up. I have been wondering for a while now who we will try and promote for the tighthead position as we don’t seem to be any closer to an answer than last year. Marne Coetzee has all the makings but he must get time behind a successful pack. I like Adriaanse but I get the feeling he is currently the best he will be, which still falls a little short.

  • Comment 153, posted at 21.04.15 13:40:37 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 153) : Jaco va Tonder needs ACL reconstruction so will have to see what he is like when he comes back, but yes based on what ive sen previously i would like to see more. Neil Maritz and Tyler Fisher are names that have been thrown around but have hardly set the VC alight so why should they get the chance at a higher level when they struggle at that level. Same goes for Marne Coetzee. As for Radedbe, yes potential but i just think of the scenario of Radebe trying to stop a guy like De Allende or Odendaal running at pace…only 1 winner. The DuPreez twins whilst talented also need to show more consistently. Basically im saying if youngsters cant show up well in the Junior comps and VC then what makes us think they will do better at a higher level? Are we just hopeful

  • Comment 154, posted at 21.04.15 13:56:32 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 154) : Difficult for me to say No to a player when his whole team has been struggling.

    Are we then by the same token saying that bismarck, lwazi, pat, marcell etc. shouldn’t make the bok squad since their showing this season in SR was nothing special? I have seen players do better at a higher level with a more ordered pack yes. Once such example is Handre Pollard, did awfull in juniors and even bulls club level, goes to springboks becomes a name to remember.

    Sometimes its only when we really stretch the targets that we see what the person is made of.

  • Comment 155, posted at 21.04.15 14:02:30 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • My starting team for Highlanders:
    1) Beast
    2) Bissie
    3) Jannie
    4) Oosthuizen
    5) Wentzel
    6) Coetzee
    7) Alberts
    8) Botma
    9) Reinach
    10) Zeilinga
    11) Mvovo
    12) Estehuyzen
    13) Sithole
    14) JPP
    15) Odwa (if he has recovered)
    with reserves:
    Du Toit
    Franco
    Adriaanse
    Lewies
    Kanko
    Ungerer
    Cronje
    Jordaan (if he is fit) / Wilson

    Also in the squad of 27:

    Majola / one other loose forward
    Wright
    Steyn
    Wilson / Jordaan

  • Comment 156, posted at 21.04.15 14:15:34 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 156) : Cronje only makes it because Steyn is not available for Highlanders game

  • Comment 157, posted at 21.04.15 14:16:33 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 156) : I have probably misread the article or the comments on it. But isn’t du Toit out due to baby bok selection? Other than that I would agree with that selection but I would add 1 more lock unless Alberts is going to double as lock flank? So instead of Majola I would have taken Daniel du Preez but unfortunately he is out too.

  • Comment 158, posted at 21.04.15 14:28:12 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 155) : So in other words pick and hope? Based on Current form no a lot of Sharks players shouldnt be in the Bok side. However, current form is only 1 aspect, a proven track record is another so is a coaches gameplan etc. So whilst some of the Sharks guys have proven Bok track records which trumps their current form, in some cases their current form supercedes what goodwill they have created in the past. If that makes sense? So applying that to the Juniors…what have they shown currently or in the past to warrant selection? And remember not just selection but to justify dropping the incumbent in favour of the unproven youngster. Very few of the Sharks younger generation not already in the Super rugby side can show justification based on current or past performances at senior or even u19 or u21 level to warrant inclusion at the moment. So picking them would just be in the hope…and for me if a coach is picking on hope that i will seriously start to doubt his thinking.

  • Comment 159, posted at 21.04.15 14:31:10 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • I have been lucky enough to be around some of the best coaches in the game of rugby in the last couple of years.

    Although they are all very strong characters, with vast amounts of experience in coaching, it was surprising to me that apart from the odd trend in the game, or slight tweak in a system or theory here and there, there are a few common denominators that all of them have when it comes to coaching and playing the game.

    First and foremost, you don’t train and play this game just to win some of the time, you bust your guts and sacrifice many things (normal guys take for granted) as pro’s because you want to win all the time.

    Second place simply means you are the best loser.

    Secondly, rugby is a battle of wit (intelligence) and heart. If you have players that only has one of these, get used to being the best loser, because you can have all the intelligence on the planet but if you do not have the heart to go out there and bust your gut for your coach and team mates, I don’t want you next to me in any battle.

    Thirdly – Discipline. It is non-negotiable. Discipline builds character, character drives your will to succeed – without discipline, you have no ambition or the will to win.

    Rugby might be ‘just’ a game to some that is driven by commercial interests (so are many things in life, including your normal office job), but for those who play it, it is about the battle, and beating the other guy, every single time.

    There is nothing that comes close to walking into a changeroom full of battered, bleeding bodies where they left everything they had out on the battlefield and witnessing the bond it created between those men – a bond that very few things in life will be able to break.

    Rugby is not a game that is coached by a teacher to players or friends, but by a father to a band of brothers.

  • Comment 160, posted at 21.04.15 14:31:53 by Morné Reply
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    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 158) : Junior RWC starts on the 2nd June. Sharks will be back just after 22 May. I guess it depends on how soon Theron wants all his players available for full training. Perhaps Thomas can play 2 games, and then be replaced by Chadwick.

  • Comment 161, posted at 21.04.15 14:36:39 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 160) : great post Morne!

  • Comment 162, posted at 21.04.15 14:43:07 by gregkaos Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 161) : So does that mean he and du preez may still be available for 2 games?

  • Comment 163, posted at 21.04.15 14:47:26 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 163) : Dunno

  • Comment 164, posted at 21.04.15 14:48:43 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 164) : Well if it did I would trade Majola for du Preez.

  • Comment 165, posted at 21.04.15 14:51:44 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 165) : My reason is that we have no real replacement for Marcel. Lots of blind side flanks.

  • Comment 166, posted at 21.04.15 14:56:04 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 159) : I suppose all of this is relative. If your plan is to build the future and you consider this season a good building/exposure platform it would be attractive to take the risk on the non-track record.

    If your aim is to salvage something from this series and save some face I agree you would probably not gamble on guys who don’t have the luxury of a historical track record to fall back on.

    And remember they will HAVE TO perform exceptionally for you to save face in the short term. Because many of those guys will not be available after this series so you will still have a long term issue.

    I guess If I were coach I would look at who has signed and will be capable to play very well for the next 2-3 years and who hasn’t, as for the unconfirmed, I don’t see one risk being bigger than the other but I do see the long term reward outweighing the short term gamble. If I were a coach planning on being here for next few years that is.

  • Comment 167, posted at 21.04.15 15:04:05 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 166) : Not a bad reason, and as I said Alberts can double as lock so you can move Kanko in at 8, Bothma to blindside and use Alberts on lock should the need arise. What is the max number of players in the squad?

  • Comment 168, posted at 21.04.15 15:05:09 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 167) : I think unless we playing fantsy rugby we have to face the reality that the Union has to try and salvage as many winds in this campaign as possible. They have sponsors to appease as well as a heavy monthly payroll that they need to see a return for. So they are not going to drop a well paid current Bok for a hope that a youngster may perform and if he doesnt then he may next year. And this is where i believe that the VC needs to be shown more respect. This is where our Currie Cup side in effect should be playing. For me its unacceptable the performances from the VC side this year. Our CC side should be the VC side plus the unlucky few from Super side that arent in the Bok mix, there should be an easy transition with personnel and game plan etc. AT the moment the form of the guys in our VC side doesnt bode well for Currie Cup…i may be wrong…but im probably right

  • Comment 169, posted at 21.04.15 15:18:48 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 161) : there’s a baby bok tour to Argentina that leaves early in May. Thomas and the du Preez’s will be be on that tour.

  • Comment 170, posted at 21.04.15 15:33:52 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 168) : It looks to be 27.

  • Comment 171, posted at 21.04.15 15:39:22 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 171) : I’m working on 28

  • Comment 172, posted at 21.04.15 15:43:55 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 172) : Lions and Stormers both had squads of 27 on tour.

  • Comment 173, posted at 21.04.15 15:46:58 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 173) : Well whatever the case your squad could still be the fit. But I have a nagging feeling they will be giving crucial space to passengers (we know who they are). I wish they would hurry up and name the squad already but they will probably only do that next week some time.

  • Comment 174, posted at 21.04.15 16:08:30 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 5) : My personal feeling would be to split the squads for the rest of the season. Those who are supposed SR material and those who are supposed VC material – no more mixing. Build an ethos where both teams are valued. The VC team shouldn’t be seen as a ‘second rate team’ to which the SR guys get dropped if they are not performing. Ryan alluded to this in his interview. Each team needs to create an identity that exudes pride.

    The strategy that seems to have been adopted is a blanket experience over youth approach. In my mind, this needs to be abandoned for one of ‘in form players’ cracking the nod.

    Can we not invent a stat to measure and track BMT? All in the squad have talent but when the moment is big, we need them to perform – some guys are wired for those moments!

  • Comment 175, posted at 21.04.15 17:16:00 by Julesgr8ter Reply
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  • @Julesgr8ter (Comment 175) : that’s a contender for most sensible comment of the week.

  • Comment 176, posted at 21.04.15 17:26:41 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 176) : Are we in that case coming to the conclusion that the gray side was not such a great idea in hindsight?

  • Comment 177, posted at 21.04.15 18:49:12 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 177) : no, I think it’s a good concept. The problem here is that the Vodacom Cup coach is seemingly forced to pick from outside that squad as guys come down from Super Rugby.

  • Comment 178, posted at 21.04.15 18:52:33 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 178) : Oh, thought that just automatically dropped into the gray squad at that point

  • Comment 179, posted at 21.04.15 20:02:30 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 179) : that = they

  • Comment 180, posted at 21.04.15 20:17:17 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 179) : nah. They’ll still train with the Super Rugby squad for most of the week

  • Comment 181, posted at 21.04.15 21:42:08 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 181) : Do the other unions like the Bulls and WP do it the same or do they go about it differently?

  • Comment 182, posted at 21.04.15 22:17:30 by Ben Reply
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