robdylan

Build or buy?


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks, Super Rugby on 12 May 2015 at 11:10
Tagged with : , , , ,

It’s 2015, it’s a World Cup year and the Sharks have a lot of senior players in their squad. I don’t think I’d be revealing any state secrets or shocking any of you with truly unexpected news if I pointed out that we should probably expect a few of them to move on from Durban at the end of the season.

Now, I don’t have a list of who’s in and who’s out; it’s way too early for that and we of course need to understand that, with a competition still underway and plenty of negotiation still to come, talking about specific players and their plans is not the right thing to do. The intent of this discussion is rather to debate the overall philosophy that the Sharks should adopt in terms of replacing departing players; in short, should they promote, or should they procure?

Let’s start by addressing a perception, one which says that the Sharks are a team of mercenaries, blind to the existence of talent within their own junior ranks. This stereotypical Sharks setup will always go to the market to buy whatever journeyman (or “experienced campaigner”) is available, ignoring the plethora of good young options available on their very doorstep. Is this tag justified? The answer, I guess, is “it depends”, since while one can certainly find enough examples to substantiate the perception, you could just as easily disprove it by citing other cases.

The Sharks team that played the Hurricanes this weekend, for example, contained nine Sharks age-group players in the starting team (10 if you count Renaldo Bothma) and a further five on the bench. I’ll not do a detailed analysis on the other South African teams that played in the last round, but I’d be genuinely surprised if any of them was able to beat that ratio. Sure, the presence of a Matt Stevens, Lionel Cronje or Conrad Hoffmann in the squad is always going to grab the headlines, but we shouldn’t be too quick to let the perception cloud the reality.

That’s not to say that the Sharks couldn’t be doing a better job when it comes to promoting from within, but we do need to acknowledge that there isn’t always a steady stream of willing and able youngsters coming through, in all the right positions. In years gone by, there have been gluts at lock, prop, hooker, scrumhalf at times when there simply weren’t places for all of these players in the senior squad. A bit of movement, in other words, is to be expected and the Sharks remain a nett producer of rugby talent at age group level. Again, when such a “discard” comes good at another province, it’s always going to make headlines, far more so than a junior who does progress through the ranks in Durban. Just as there have been these surpluses in some positions, there have been shortages in others; I’m genuinely not seeing evidence of enough good wing or fullback options in the junior ranks to convince me that the Sharks shouldn’t strengthen this position via acquisition, just as an example.

There’s also a very strong feeling that juniors need to prove themselves and earn promotion. In a season when the Vodacom Cup team has lost all but two matches (after an under 21 campaign last year that failed similarly) it’s hard to make a genuine call for blanket youth promotion. While everyone likes to pretend that the Lions have a team chock-full of brilliant 21 year olds, the reality is that the spine of their team is far more experienced than that and the Sharks would be foolish to think they could do well in Super Rugby without a core of seasoned players.

The right answer to this question, as always, is one of balance. I believe that the Sharks should genuinely always look to what they have in house first, but should not be afraid to invest in quality experienced players from outside the province when the junior systems do not have any suitable candidates in a particular position. If anything, the issue over the last few years has not been too much procurement, but rather that too high a percentage of the players that have been procured have let the side down.

A good youngster will always be a better option than an average older player; let’s not fall into the trap of thinking that every youngster is automatically good, or every older player necessarily and over-the-hill mercenary or journeyman.



180 Comments

  • ‘Buying’ players is like buying groceries.

    We all have our favourite store we tend to frequent more, but they do not always have your specialist likes available and for that we go to opposition stores or markets, or a specialist store.

    You pay money no matter where you ‘shop’ – the idea however is that you get the best buy for your buck without losing out on quality.

  • Comment 1, posted at 12.05.15 11:21:26 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • Mostly buy young – then build. However no issue with the odd buy of the more experienced player to shore up a short term issue.

  • Comment 2, posted at 12.05.15 11:31:03 by Bokhoring Reply
    Administrator
    BokhoringAssistant coach
     
  • This is one of the best written articles ive read on this topic. And it is a sensitive topic. In this professional age if people think a team should only use guys coming through their ranks then they are seriously misguided. Likewise is the opinion that there are always international stars they are available to fill the gaps that form within a Union. By and large the quality youth the Sharks produce have been and will be given a chance…Lambie, Cooper, Mthembu, Williams, Murray, JPP Pieterson, Mvovo, Coetzee, PSDT, Lewies, Reinach,Zeilinga, Ungerer are all examples of this recently. As you say not all youth are good enough for this level purely because they are younger. The players that everyone loves to hate: Stevens- brought in after our second string front rows were getting pummelled in the CC. Botha- brought in when every lock decide to get on the first bus out of town. Oosthuizen and Mtyanda- same as Botha. Renaldo Bothma- brought in a serious and justified concerns over Alberts fitness. Cronje- brought in a new flyhalf/fullback depth. Hoffman – brought in when McCloed was on way out and Union was unsure of the quality of the youth they had. Yes the youth has come good now or so we think- we dont watch practices…if anyone hre does and has seen Ungerer and Venter school Hoffman at practice let me know please. So is it really as bad as we think?

  • Comment 3, posted at 12.05.15 11:37:05 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 3) : the point you make about us not watching practices is a very good one. You’d like to think that the coaches will always be better positioned to make the call than we will.

    Then again, we do see the games. I don’t need to watch Hoffmann or Stevens practice to tell you that they’re not making the grade.

  • Comment 4, posted at 12.05.15 11:39:21 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • I know this is a single case but it may serve as a good discussion point. We need loose forward cover right now, we needed it a week or two ago to be more accurate (so the Pottie acquisition doesn’t even come into contention). We have Khaya Majola who may not be a youngster setting the world alight in the Vodacom Cup but at the very minimum we can refer to him as solid or consistent. Surely he’s still a more logical option than a lock who’s not delivering or a hooker. This in my mind, together with the buying of journeyman, is creating a perception that the Sharks are overly cautious in backing their youth.

  • Comment 5, posted at 12.05.15 11:41:51 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 5) : yes, I agree. It was a mistake to not back Majola for this tour.

  • Comment 6, posted at 12.05.15 11:43:15 by robdylan Reply
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  • Look, to throw a spanner in the works, let’s take Marco Wentzel. When we initially signed him, many (myself included) was quick to brand him with the “journeyman” tag. He’s been around a few clubs, not making a HUGE name for himself anywhere (despite his 1 bok cap) and probably nearing his retirement age. However, since then he has shown that he is a player of immense value; even been given the captaincy as a result. Now, not all players are of Marco’s caliber, sure, but he is a prime example that we must not be too quick to slap tags on players even before they have even played one minute on the field.

  • Comment 7, posted at 12.05.15 11:49:14 by Another Nick Reply

    Another NickSuper Rugby player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 4) : Rob id just be happy to know that all the coaches are actually at the practices and watching ;) @vanmartin (Comment 5) : @robdylan (Comment 6) : I think where im most upset is that nobody has come out and said that they effed up in terms of the touring party selection and then had to send Cooper in an emergency in case one of the 2 hookers went down and we couldnt field a team

  • Comment 8, posted at 12.05.15 11:54:39 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Another Nick (Comment 7) : amen!

  • Comment 9, posted at 12.05.15 11:54:48 by robdylan Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 8) : so when you’re on tour with a bunch of guys, you should make a media statement declaring that you made a mistake in selecting one or two of them?

    I can see how that would work to improve morale on a tour that’s already going just perfectly :)

  • Comment 10, posted at 12.05.15 11:57:31 by robdylan Reply
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  • It’s a very difficult balance to get right, that’s for sure. If you look at Potgieter, they bought him since Deysel has only signed a year and who knows if Alberts is going to stay around next year. Pretty sure the coaches does. A big part of our game is having a big ball carrier to make meters around the ruck, so he was a solid buy seeing as we don’t have a spare man mountain lying around.

  • Comment 11, posted at 12.05.15 11:59:20 by Dragnipur Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    DragnipurSuper Rugby player
     
  • Both, build youngsters but don’t be afraid to buy when needed.

    BUT, unless you are really in need and there is no one available done buy 30+ year old’s. Also if you want to be the best you have to buy the best, not have beens or mediocre players.

  • Comment 12, posted at 12.05.15 12:02:27 by Seth101 Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    NostrasethTeam captain
     
  • I think you need to back the young okes around experienced players . If you can have majola play along side alberts and deysel that would be a good thing . But just having youth wont be great .

  • Comment 13, posted at 12.05.15 12:03:36 by Zibbie Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner
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  • I agree 100% with your article and premise! From your lips to gods ears!

  • Comment 14, posted at 12.05.15 12:07:31 by Sharkfinn Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • Ja I would say it’s one thing to stand out at practise and another to lose your marbles in a game. The game performance obviously out weighing the practise. This is why most coaches won’t just make knee jerk decision and drop you after one performance. But in the case of hoff he has been given ample chance and has not made the grade. Ungerer was given a shot and showed immediate results. So who do you persist with? The main resources they have here is time talent and money of which time is non renewable or expandable. So whether or not he shines at practise is now invalidated since there is an available resource with talent he won’t cost more money the only argument is what will you do with your time.

  • Comment 15, posted at 12.05.15 12:10:02 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • I suppose each scenario or case is unique. But there should be a policy that has criteria that can globally adress the reasons for player acquisitions. A proper swot driven decision and obviously a long term roadmap. If there really are such keen business minds at the tank as we are led to believe they should already know about decision matrices and be able to employ these to some good effect. Business is constantly making tactical and strategic decisions and this business should be able to do the same. The fact that there have been some questionable decisions makes me wonder who makes them and what their process is?

  • Comment 16, posted at 12.05.15 12:17:44 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • I believe the Sharks coaching culture has become like the current playing culture – cautious, afraid to make mistakes. Therefore the coaches will almost always go with the experienced players – rather than giving younger players exposure.

  • Comment 17, posted at 12.05.15 12:21:30 by Bokhoring Reply
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    BokhoringAssistant coach
     
  • @Dragnipur (Comment 11) : Deysel signed for 3 years, but I think your comment about Alberts still holds.

  • Comment 18, posted at 12.05.15 12:25:54 by robdylan Reply
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  • In some cases you will be pushed into a corner and what you either don’t have or don’t have ready now. Like a while back I was wondering who the Jannie replacement would be. And I honestly didn’t see anyone who could fill those shoes. Then I guess it’s go to market time. But what is your cutoff age for hired guns how long do you see them staying? The not ready now condition never persists and you must plan for that change in wind direction. Like now we have some very good candidates and even a short while ago 2011 we had Redelinghuis who we could have started using but didn’t and he left. TALENT management is a very underrated function and yet very critical. Maybe we should trim coaching staff and ensure we get some dedicated expertise in this area. My question is what are the nz and aus big leagues doing is there something to be learned?

  • Comment 19, posted at 12.05.15 12:36:38 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • Ja agree with bokhoring. The current climate at sharks is not very conducive to taking risk coaches must perform or lose their jobs. But sometimes that’s the best time to change step. I say if they do have a strategy and they have sign off from their bosses they can safely employ a long term strategy. Do they have that kind of backing or is the view from the top shortsighted?

  • Comment 20, posted at 12.05.15 12:41:16 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 10) : Yes name and shame…hehe Put their pictures in the paper with a big red cross ;)

  • Comment 21, posted at 12.05.15 12:43:12 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 21) : do we have enough red ink? In the whole world? :)

  • Comment 22, posted at 12.05.15 12:47:37 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • I think the main names people have a gripe with are Stevens and Hoffman. Well Stevens has clearly been moved down the pecking order showing that the coaches are not happy with his performance. Hoffman has not moved…so yes WE all want the youngsters to play but have we thought that maybe the coaches have no problem with how he is playing and therefore not considering moving to other options? Just an idea

  • Comment 23, posted at 12.05.15 12:54:06 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 17) : Well we are facing a horrid season. You can understand that the coaches just want to start winning a few games again.

  • Comment 24, posted at 12.05.15 12:55:02 by Dragnipur Reply
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    DragnipurSuper Rugby player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 22) : Plascon sells 5lite tubs of paint ;)

  • Comment 25, posted at 12.05.15 12:55:12 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 18) : Hm did not know about the three years. Hopefully they slipped the no play no pay clause into his contract.

  • Comment 26, posted at 12.05.15 12:55:43 by Dragnipur Reply
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  • @Dragnipur (Comment 24) : Taking only three loose forwards on tour and then having to cover 7 and 8 with a hooker and a lock is also not conducive to winning.

  • Comment 27, posted at 12.05.15 13:01:07 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • Their thought processes are mystifying to put it mildly. I’m also still baffled by the decision to keep JP at center. If someone can explain that one to me?

  • Comment 28, posted at 12.05.15 13:23:54 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 28) : I suspect that’s a selection that only the coaches can explain and it probably involves a lot of ‘intangibles’. Expect terms like ‘presence’, ‘intent’, ‘threat’ and ‘experience’ to be thrown around a lot.

  • Comment 29, posted at 12.05.15 13:39:27 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Always build with the best available, that includes all aspects of building from the preperation phase to the final finishing touches. Dont be scared to buy when clearly better products are needed and available. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 30, posted at 12.05.15 13:40:37 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • We know the reasons to build or buy, what baffles me is how we applied it when you look at recent purchases?

  • Comment 31, posted at 12.05.15 14:01:53 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 8) : Absolutely crazy…and then he gets game time as a loose forward replacement.

  • Comment 32, posted at 12.05.15 14:02:36 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 29) : I’ve asked for official comment from Gold on the non-selection of S’bura at 13.

  • Comment 33, posted at 12.05.15 14:03:29 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 33) : Its cos the 13 jersey is too big for him- Waylon stretched it.

  • Comment 34, posted at 12.05.15 14:21:00 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 33) : @SheldonK (Comment 34) : With all due respect to the player, who I think is a very good player, I am still not convinced with him at no13.

  • Comment 35, posted at 12.05.15 14:33:04 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli BoelieTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 23) : I have been one of the first to complain about Hoffman. Just one thought, has anyone considered that the coaching staff actually have always felt that Ungerer is their second 9 behind Cobus, but since he is young and clearly the more game time, the better, perhaps Hoffman is just being used as a filler on the bench in SR, in case of an emergency or to just fill in for 10 minutes when the match is already lost. Ungerer has been given time at VodaCup level, lots of game time, and perhaps that decision, aided in the decent performance we saw from him against the Hurricanes.

  • Comment 36, posted at 12.05.15 14:51:42 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • On that score, how ready is Jordaan to step into 13?

  • Comment 37, posted at 12.05.15 15:01:29 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 35) : Look me neither- i think he can offer better value off the wing provided he looks for work. Like JPP he would be a stop gap 13 as his skillset isnt that of a 13. Id rather see Heimar Williams at 12 and Steyn at 13.

  • Comment 38, posted at 12.05.15 15:09:00 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 36) : no, because if that was the case, they would have told Ungerer what his role was.

  • Comment 39, posted at 12.05.15 15:10:05 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 36) : Very possible. They need Ungerer to be playing to develop him game more where as Hoffman is being used as a safety net and not expected to win you matches but rather to fill the gap if Reinach doesnt play the 80min

  • Comment 40, posted at 12.05.15 15:11:10 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • I would say that would be a very risky strategy for a super series. If you have the money why spend it on a guy you don’t expect to win games just to warm the seat? There is a whole country with nr 9 to go to for that why import why not use a good enough player found locally? Surely what you pay hoffman could buy an eagles or griekwas or leopards Or a great VC player who wants bigger things?

  • Comment 41, posted at 12.05.15 15:56:02 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 28) : I am also also baffled. JPP has always had a poor work ethic. I am still disgusted by his attitude on defence and support. His work rate is only visible when he has the ball in hand. To be really honest guys….Hoffman only disappointed me once or twice during this season. Also remember that the benchmark set by Cobus is very low….maybe that’s the reason I am not really upset with him. With regards to the topic at hand, I addressed it on one of my comments during the weekend. You want to make, but you can not make whilst your junior and Vodacom teams are very average. Change the strategy to one that recruits the best school boys especially ones from KZN. Start winning at u19, u21 and Vodacom level. Don’t blindly buy every school boy but buy in the positions where the future is not bright. For example, it is pointless to buy the best school boy loosehead when we have Thomas and Dale. Pointless to buy more loosehead locks when we have PSDT and Lewies for another 5 years at least….unless we are unable to secure them. Think we should make a deliberate attempt in the next 3 yrs to recruit the best backline school boys in the country that play centre, wing and fullback. Until then, buy smart.

  • Comment 42, posted at 12.05.15 16:02:11 by GreatSharksays Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • I don’t know what the issue is but I can say there is a lot of money wasted on bad purchases. Who is in charge of acquisitions? There must be some Samoan or Argentinian or some less funded countries with better guys who can be stopgap? I remember many guys on here commenting how stevens hasn’t shown anything for years at the time we bought him surely our buyer should also have investigated before forking over money surely the proposal to offer made its way to the board or top management? How did such an obviously poor decision with a reference able track record get all the way to greenlight? Hoffman too? Botha I can understand the guy had a good record. But murray stevens hoffman. ..just some research into their last 2 seasons should have indicated?

  • Comment 43, posted at 12.05.15 16:06:43 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @greatshark But wasn’t that the plan they announced when Jake came in? Building the structures and relationships at the school and varsity levels so we can fish from those pools? What happened to that plan? John Smit seems to be saying that this is very much the strategy in his open letter.

  • Comment 44, posted at 12.05.15 16:11:17 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • Not sure about how the 7′s contracts work, but maybe Sharks could have another look at Rosco Speckman? Currently contracted to Pumas i think, and looks to have really sharpened up since joining Blitzbokke this season. Played some Vodacom Cup games for Sharks from 2010 to 2012. Showed some great footwork and pace in Glasgow this weekend.

    We need some flyers in Sharks squad, have lost out-and-out pace on wings in recent seasons. Look at how Senatla has performed for Stormers when available.

  • Comment 45, posted at 12.05.15 16:13:40 by Alan Moscrop Reply

     
  • Lots of rumours doing the rounds here in CT that John Mitchell been interviewed for role as Stormers Head Coach…

  • Comment 46, posted at 12.05.15 16:14:31 by grant10 Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • And Sergeal Pietersen too. The guys workrate is awesome he makes jp look like he is standing still…which he is

  • Comment 47, posted at 12.05.15 16:19:52 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • Lol. If the Stormers get Mitchell after he’s been on our doorstep for years and declared his interest in us AND we get stuck with Journeyman-No record of success to speak of Glittering Gold, I will go a little nuts.

  • Comment 48, posted at 12.05.15 16:42:51 by Feather Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @Feather (Comment 48) : hold your horses, Feather. Wait until something actually happens before you go nuts.

    grant10 loves coming in here and dropping his little kamikaze rumour nuggets. I’ve yet to see any of them come to fruition. I’m still trying to figure out if he’s actually serious, or rather just a bridge dweller

  • Comment 49, posted at 12.05.15 16:55:43 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Alan Moscrop (Comment 45) : I always liked Speckers. Down-to-earth, honest hard working player

  • Comment 50, posted at 12.05.15 17:07:53 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 50) : the guy i would love is Werner Kok. The Lions have a heap of loosies but Kwagga made such an impact last year. Would Kok also be a loosie or a center?

  • Comment 51, posted at 12.05.15 17:14:57 by Kabouter Reply

    KabouterCurrie Cup player
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 44) : Yes but that will only be realised in 3 to 4 years. What do you do whilst you wait….BUY!!

  • Comment 52, posted at 12.05.15 17:23:51 by GreatSharksays Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @Kabouter (Comment 51) : no bloody clue, to be honest.

  • Comment 53, posted at 12.05.15 17:24:09 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Kabouter (Comment 51) : centre or wing according to wikipedia

  • Comment 54, posted at 12.05.15 17:24:47 by robdylan Reply
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  • So it seems the over-whelming consensus is to buy?

  • Comment 55, posted at 12.05.15 17:36:20 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 55) :

    Chelski Sharks… has a nice ring to it… :mrgreen:

  • Comment 56, posted at 12.05.15 17:37:12 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @Feather (Comment 48) : Remember that John, the players and the assistants wanted a coach they can get along with, will understand them and allow them to do as they please at the expense of the fans. My concern is that we don’t seem to have the rugby brains in house. Talking about guys like Eddie Jones, Nick Mallet, John Mitchell….This lack of inhouse rugby intelligence has made up reactive since 2008. Pointless bringing in the best talent in SA if we don’t have the technical skills to unleash the potential in our young stars. Yes I am willing to give Smit the rest of the year to fix things but I am not optimistic at all.

  • Comment 57, posted at 12.05.15 17:40:52 by GreatSharksays Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 49) : lol, ok. Let’s wait and see. Lets say he does land that job, I’d say it was a step in the right direction to build on Coetzee’s years.

    Unlike ours…

  • Comment 58, posted at 12.05.15 17:46:40 by Feather Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 57) : I remember reading Botha’s article that he said to his colleagues at Sarries that he thought Sharks were putting together a great coaching setup when he heard Gold would join Smit and Venter, only to be approached a few weeks later.

    Agree on additional need for input. Does Campo still live in DBN? Carlos Spencer us floating around here in PE and Slaptjips leaving Bulls. Also despite his obvious verbal diarrhoea P Div has a very good coaching record. Any of these guys could impact our backlines quite positively.

    Ex legends like Stef Terblanche, Teich and Andrews could also help youth

  • Comment 59, posted at 12.05.15 17:49:17 by Kabouter Reply

    KabouterCurrie Cup player
     
  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 57) : “Remember that John, the players and the assistants wanted a coach they can get along with, will understand them and allow them to do as they please at the expense of the fans.”

    Jeez, I’m sorry, but that is just such a ridiculous statement. Don’t let Keo do your thinking for you, or put his words into your mouth.

  • Comment 60, posted at 12.05.15 17:49:26 by robdylan Reply
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  • Buying might be the biggest problem with the Sharks brand, as the Sharks brand has thus far been built on bought players, and relied on buying big name players.

    Getting rid of this buying(big name players)-to-gain-success culture might be Smitties biggest obstacle in creating sustained success.

    Smit seem to be addressing this problem through KZN schools and UKZN, but it is a long term fix…in the interim, he is forced to continue the culture of buying.

  • Comment 61, posted at 12.05.15 17:55:07 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 54) : that I like. Think of how much Esterhuizen, Louw even Sbura can learn skills wise, inc one on one defence. It feels like Sbura has gone backwards in that regard since leaving sevens

  • Comment 62, posted at 12.05.15 17:55:38 by Kabouter Reply

    KabouterCurrie Cup player
     
  • or how long have we used the Ian Mac crash ball technique. Our players get injured on a daily basis. Ronaldo Bothma at the Pumas was a running loose forward. All he does at the Sharks is crash crash crash….when are we going to use our big boys as effective dummy runners or use them from the third or fourth phase? Everyone knows, Sharks need the biggest 7 in the country for their game to work!! Really? In 2015. The Spartans were very good at one stage and used to win all the battles in Greece until their enemies realised that their battle strategy remains the same no matter the opposition, weather…anything…the Spartans went from the most feared nation to being extinction. The Spartans remind me of the Sharks and it is f&cken frustrating.

  • Comment 63, posted at 12.05.15 18:08:16 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • @Feather (Comment 48) : @robdylan (Comment 49) : See below from IOL….

    iol_sports

    HomeSoccer Rugby Cricket Boxing Tennis Cycling Golf More Sport Results Cricket World Cup
    Proteas World Domestic

    Rossouw set for Stormers return?

    May 12 2015 at 12:38pm
    By Zelim Nel and Vata Ngobeni Comment on this story
    iol spt may12 Pieter Rossouw
    Gallo Images
    Pieter Rossouw fuelled long-held rumours that he was eager to move office to Newlands in the near future when the former Springbok and Stormers winger quit as Bulls backline coach. Photo by Lee Warren / Gallo Images
    Pieter Rossouw fuelled long-held rumours that he was eager to move office to Newlands in the near future when the former Springbok and Stormers winger gave up hope of extending his term as the Bulls attack coach.

    An official Bulls press release yesterday confirmed that “Rossouw’s contract terminates at the end of the current season” and “the process of appointing a successor has already started”. Other reports highlighted family reasons for the Paarl Gym old boy’s decision to pack his bags for Cape Town where his children will attend high school.

    Rossouw, nicknamed Slaptjips for his gangly running style, was a key member of Western Province and then the Stormers between 1996 and 2004, lining up on the left wing in a back three that, for the most part, featured fellow Bok stalwarts Breyton Paulse and Percy Montgomery.

    During the second half of his playing career, Rossouw served under current WP director of rugby Gert Smal.

    Smal was recalled for a second term at Newlands headquarters in April last year and has steadily primed the management team for an overhaul.

    Head coach Allister Coetzee will join Kobe Steelers in the Japanese league at the conclusion of the current Super Rugby season, with WP Vodacom Cup coach John Dobson and his assistant, Dawie Snyman, assigned to the pending Currie Cup campaign. Attack coach Robbie Fleck will go from the Stormers to WP under-21 coach during the domestic championship.

    Forwards coach Matt Proudfoot has been assigned to a special project that Smal has dubbed “The Tight Five Factory”. Former conditioning coach, kicking coach and one-time defence coach, Greg Hechter is now high performance manager, while former SA Sevens coach Paul Treu was added to the team this year with a long-term view to filling the void left by the departure of defence coach Jacques Nienaber.

    Multiple sources have confirmed that former All Blacks, Western Force and Lions coach John Mitchell has already been interviewed to replace Coetzee as Stormers coach.

    Fleck and Rossouw were teammates during the heady days of the Stormers’ “Men In Black” campaign, and for South Africa.

    Rossouw’s departure from the Bulls could pave the way for the return of Springbok scrumhalf Fourie du Preez to Loftus Versfeld as his replacement. Du Preez will end his international career after this year’s Rugby World Cup and will also hang up his boots at the end of his contract with Japanese club Suntory at the beginning of next year. – Zelim Nel and Vata Ngobeni

  • Comment 64, posted at 12.05.15 18:32:23 by grant10 Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • @grant10 (Comment 64) : So Rob, have a good evening while I head back to my abode under the bridge. Good evening all

  • Comment 65, posted at 12.05.15 18:33:32 by grant10 Reply

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  • @grant10 (Comment 65) : don’t let the goats eat you

  • Comment 66, posted at 12.05.15 18:47:58 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 66) : LOL….by the way, i only ever post what i ever truly believe in strongly…..if thats being a troll then so be it….for the record, my past concerns,,,,and you can decide whether they were warranted or not….1 The move of Smit to 3….

    2….the omission of Bissy for Smit in WC 2011…..3 Schalk being preferred to Brussow as fetcher…..4 M Steyn at 10 who i believed retarded bok backs…..5 Spies at 8 that i believed, together with the selection of Smit, lead to massive losses for boks in 2010 and 2011…..

    your call if i was right or wrong…..

  • Comment 67, posted at 12.05.15 18:55:59 by grant10 Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • I think (not know) that if we do some stats comparisons we might see if the buying oriented teams are least consistent winning season after season, or not. Personally I suspect they have longer rebuilt periods with huge continuity issues. But that is just a suspicion.

  • Comment 68, posted at 12.05.15 19:49:25 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 60) : It’s well documented that the players and assistant coaches played a big role in deciding who to bring as coach. That is a fact. I also trust my source who actually interviewed some of the players.

  • Comment 69, posted at 12.05.15 20:10:24 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 63) : brilliant point

  • Comment 70, posted at 12.05.15 21:29:03 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 70) : Which one, Ian Mac crashball or Spartan historical inaccuracies? :mrgreen: ;-)

  • Comment 71, posted at 12.05.15 21:52:56 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • Very well written Rob. The thing we have to remember that when you build a player and he sticks with the team for a number of years (Hopefully), he will always block the way of other youngsters for the next few years. Those youngsters move on as we have seen on countless occasions. Then when you suddenly lose a few players for what ever reason you suddenly realize that you simply don’t have enough quality and or experience players in a certain position. At that point I feel recruiting a player (hopefully a suitable candidate…see Potgieter signing) could ease the pressure. As long as it’s not done as a “stop gap” only (see various other signings)

    Now in saying that, I’m not a fan of sticking with a player that does not perform at the cost of a youngster eager and hungry to prove him self. So the reality is that you will always have a mix of “home grown” players and those recruited. Hopefully thou the ratio will always favor the “home grown” ones.

  • Comment 72, posted at 12.05.15 21:57:35 by Farlington Reply

    FarlingtonSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 71) : The crash ball thing. I know nothing about Sparta :)

  • Comment 73, posted at 12.05.15 22:19:12 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 73) : :lol: :lol: Well considering Sparta is still in existence and the capital of the Laconia region in Greece, it is hard to go with the extinction theory.

  • Comment 74, posted at 12.05.15 22:27:43 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 74) : Ouch.

  • Comment 75, posted at 12.05.15 22:55:00 by robdylan Reply
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  • The “extinction” part is reasonably accurate.

    Spartan citizenship requirements were so stringent that their numbers started to dwindle dramatically at some point.

    Marriage and birthrates also dropped dramatically in the rest of Greece once the Romans took responsibility for Greek security and the Greeks abolished their armies — (Something similar to what’s happening in Europe today). It follows that modern Greece’s link to Classical Greece is probably more cultural that genetic.

    During Roman times, Sparta was mostly a tourist attraction.

  • Comment 76, posted at 13.05.15 01:29:38 by fyndraai Reply
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  • Spartan women had more say and power in public life than any other Greek women. A Spartan queen remarked that it was because Spartan women were the only women who gave birth to real men.

  • Comment 77, posted at 13.05.15 01:33:31 by fyndraai Reply
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  • When Syracuse was besieged by Athens, they asked Sparta for aid and the Spartan’s send one guy.

    The Athenian army was completely destroyed.

  • Comment 78, posted at 13.05.15 01:35:18 by fyndraai Reply
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  • When the Athenian “day-runner” Pheidippides arived in Sparta with a request for aid after his 240km run, the Spartans agreed to come as soon as their religious festival was completed — They did not want to offend the Gods.

    Pheidippides turned around and ran 240km back with the bad news, then participated in the battle of Marathon and ran the 42km to Athens with the news of victory.

    Then dropped dead.

    That is the complete story if all the various versions are accurate.

  • Comment 79, posted at 13.05.15 01:42:41 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 79) : You’re going to have to tread lightly here; continued posts of this nature run a serious risk of jeopardizing my long-held views regarding the universal ignorance of Bulls fans… :mrgreen:

  • Comment 80, posted at 13.05.15 05:20:40 by Culling Song Reply
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  • What’s all this talk of Spartans are we playing them next? Or are we thinking of buying their scrumhalf?

  • Comment 81, posted at 13.05.15 06:29:45 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • Build THEN Buy.

    Build a strong squad of young players to select from within your ranks, measure their talents and strength and where they will fit into your senior teams, pursue the signature of established players in the vital positions where you lack depth and experience.

    I didn’t think the Sharks needed their latest acquisition, even if Alberts and Kanko leaves we will have MarcelL; Deysel, Mtembu, Daniel and Jean-Luc, Bothma and Johan Meyer and Majola to choose from for Super Rugby. As far as I know Kanko will still continue his Japan/Sharks deal. So we are sitting with a lot of loosies, which indicates that players like Johan Meyer, Majola and both Du Preeze brothers could soon decide to look for a new contract where playing time is more plausible.

    Unless we are losing more in this area than I think, I think the Sharks again were to quick with their checkbooks. It is the same situation with Claasens coming and Wright leaving. We have plenty of players with good potential in this position, yet we are not giving them the time of day and seeing them finding better opportunity elsewhere.

  • Comment 82, posted at 13.05.15 07:46:41 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Culling Song (Comment 80) : It just proves they now know where to find Wikipedia :razz:

  • Comment 83, posted at 13.05.15 07:48:12 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • Buying players is exactly like investing in shares. You don’t want to buy when the share is at high levels already – you need to buy a share that is a low level but is showing upward motion plus potential to really reach high levels.

  • Comment 84, posted at 13.05.15 07:58:05 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • If we start to put a list together of players that have left in the past 3 years or so (young players and experienced players), how many young players we selected in that period and how many players we bought, I think we will find that the Sharks tend to bring help in from outside, or stick with veterans, and only out of absolute necessity would use junior players.

    And if this is because we don’t have any junior players that is good enough, then we need to start changing this. We need to build strong junior squads to select from and back them.

    IMO we had really strong junior squads before, but since the Sharks are a team settled on selecting under-performing veterans or bringing in under-performing veterans to select, young players are opting to go to teams where they have a more realistic chance of being played.

    If not, then way don’t we have a decent junior squad, why are the Sharks by far the team with the least Baby Boks?

  • Comment 85, posted at 13.05.15 08:19:58 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 85) : Your answer to the last question is that the Sharks buy the least amount of Juniors and try back our structures to attract them- and well we see how that works out. So we then end up having to buy in older guys.

  • Comment 86, posted at 13.05.15 09:02:40 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • I cannot believe the number of comments here asking for additional coaches and people to give input- can we not see that is the biggest issue at the moment? Players getting so much info from so much sources that they look like deer in the headlights and dont just play whats in front of them. For me Gold is fine as DOR, BHM and Horak should be sent to u21s, leave Anthony and Everitt to coach the Senior side, Give Strudwick the u19s as he works with UKZN so can foster that relationship between schools and the varsity. Too many cook spoil the broth im afraid. And Venter is either in or out fulltime- its wasting money just topping up his monthly income when he feels like he needs it and not when we need it.

  • Comment 87, posted at 13.05.15 09:06:03 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • New Super Rugby Caps since 2014 reads as follows:

    2014

    Heimar Williams (used 2 times this year)
    Stephan Lewies
    Stefan Ungerer (used 1 time so far this year
    Thomas du Toit
    Andre Esterhuizen (Used when Frans Steyn is not available)
    Franco Marais (Given oppertunity in Bismarcks absence)
    Lourens Adriaanse (bought)
    Ettienne Oosthuizen (bought)

    2015
    Renaldo Bothma (bought)
    Jack Wilson (bought)
    Mouritz Botha (bought)
    Matt Stevens (bought)
    Marco Wentzel (bought)
    Lionel Cronje (bought)
    Monde Hadebe (used 3 times)
    Giant Mtyanda (bought)

    This year the Sharks capped 8 new Sharks players only 1 came through our ranks.

    Last year the Sharks capped 8 new Sharks players 2 were bought 6 came through Sharks ranks.

  • Comment 88, posted at 13.05.15 09:13:24 by Letgo Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 87) :

    I think we need more high level coaches. It seems like we are trying to make up in numbers what we lack in experience.

  • Comment 89, posted at 13.05.15 09:17:12 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 88) :

    Zeilinga and Zithole were capped in 2013.

    So in 3 years the Sharks have capped 18 new players of which 9 were bought. Of the 10 players coming through how many have been given regular game time?

    Sithole, Lewies, Thomas with Zeilinga and Esterhuizen getting opportunities when injuries struck.

  • Comment 90, posted at 13.05.15 09:22:29 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 89) : High level coaches arent exactly hanging around asking to be hired. And even those that become available want big money and want to run the show.

  • Comment 91, posted at 13.05.15 09:23:14 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 88) : that’s a useful analysis, thanks

  • Comment 92, posted at 13.05.15 09:30:13 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 88) : Ungerer was used twice – started against the Canes and came off the bench in a home game (can’t recall which one).

  • Comment 93, posted at 13.05.15 09:30:35 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 93) : the Force game, when Cobus was rested.

    So yes, used twice this year.

  • Comment 94, posted at 13.05.15 09:32:33 by robdylan Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 91) : Maybe John Dobson will be a possibility if Mitchell is going to be coaching at Newlands.

  • Comment 95, posted at 13.05.15 09:33:12 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 91) :

    We’re looking for high-level assistant and specialist area coaches (defense, attack, forwards, backs, kicking).

    Not high-level head coaches. For example John Plumtree is now working as forwards coach at the Hurricanes.

    I can’t believe that a professional team have to hire high school coaches if they want more than one coach. It doesn’t seem right. To many of those guys are way out of their depth at this level. We need to cut down on the numbers and bring in one or two high-level specialists.

  • Comment 96, posted at 13.05.15 09:33:19 by Letgo Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 92) :

    The list does not include players who have left since being capped (if any) only players in the current Super Rugby squad.

    And Hoffman could actually be added to that list, since he was bought again last year.

  • Comment 97, posted at 13.05.15 09:36:19 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 96) : 100% agree. If it means having a team of 3 highly experienced coaches with a proven track record. So be it. Head coach, forward and backline coach. Imagine if we had kept Jake, and he brought in Gert Smal (as he wanted to) and an Eddie Jones… hehehe.. wow..only dreaming.

  • Comment 98, posted at 13.05.15 09:43:47 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • What I’d like to look at is players that could have been used if the 2015 buy list were replaced with Sharks rank players and analyse whether we think these players and possibly the team could have benefited from rather using these players.

    Renaldo Bothma (bought)
    Mouritz Botha (bought)
    Matt Stevens (bought)
    Marco Wentzel (bought)
    Lionel Cronje (bought)
    Giant Mtyanda (bought)
    Waylon Muarray (bought)
    Conrad Hoffman (bought)
    Paul Perez (bought)
    Jack Wilson (bought)

  • Comment 99, posted at 13.05.15 09:53:19 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 96) : I cannot see Mitchell going to CT- would clash big time with Gert Smal. Dobson coaching WP CC team so not gonna happen. Last year the Sharks didnt have a defense or kicking coach yet our kicking and defense was one of the best in the comp. I am really not a fan of many coaches. Too many channels of info and players become confused. If a backline coach cant coach kicking and backline defense then what is he actually coaching?

  • Comment 100, posted at 13.05.15 10:28:26 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 100) : Some facets of play require specialist coaches (e.g. scrum, lineouts vs. kicking, back line alignment, etc.) for forwards and backs. However nowadays attack and defense are global (forwards and backs need to work together) functions. IMO you should actually practice these as a team.

  • Comment 101, posted at 13.05.15 10:46:30 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 101) : Ok i do get what you are saying but let me ask this another way…if we have a kicking coach, a defense coach, a skills coach…then what exactly does the Backline coach do? Same if we have a scrum coach, lineout coach, defense coach…what does the Forwards coach do? If your answer is strategy then what does the Head coach or DOR do? So whilst I see the need for specialist advice- i do not think we need a fulltime coach in that position, rather get the specialist to upskill the coach already there.

  • Comment 102, posted at 13.05.15 11:11:23 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 102) : I agree on the overall number of coaches.

    Ideally you want coaches that are multi-skilled, e.g. one handles scrums, lineouts with forwards as well as breakdown for entire team; another than handles defense overall plus kicking; another that handles attacking drills and handling drills.

  • Comment 103, posted at 13.05.15 11:32:52 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 88) :

    Just for good measure have a look at the Stormers bought played after they player for another senior team. I did not look at where players played their junior rugby.

    2015

    Player (Age) Super Rugby Caps

    Huw Jones (21) 7
    Patrick Howard (23) 1
    Neil Rautenbach (23) 2
    Dillyn Leyds (22) 7
    Vincent Kock (25) 6 – Bought
    Johnny Kotze (22) 5
    Bongi Mbonambi (24) 4 – Bought

    2014

    Demetri Catrakilis (25) 18
    Ruan Botha (23) 16 – Bought
    Manuel Carizza (30) 9 – Bought
    Devon Williams (23) 3
    Alistair Vermaak (26) 8
    Mike Willemse (22) 1
    Kobus van Wyk (23) 14
    Oli Kebble (22) 15
    Jean Kleyn (21) 8
    Skuna Notshe (21) 3
    Jurie van Vuuren (21) 8

    2013

    Cheslin Kolbe (21) 17
    Damian de Allende (23) 36
    Jaco Taute (24) 18 – Bought
    Micheal Rhodes (27) 21 – Bought

    2012

    Eben Etzebeth (23) 23
    Siya Kolisi (23) 51
    Nizaam Carr (24) 43

    2011

    Scarra Ntubeni (24) 22
    Louis Schreuder (25) 39
    Frans Malherbe (24) 45
    Nic Groom (25) 34
    Rynhardt Elstadt (25) 41
    Steven Kitshoff (23) 51
    Kurt Coleman (25) 25

    2010

    Juan de Jongh (27) 75

    2009

    Duane Vermeulen (28) 83 – Bought

    2005

    Jean de Villiers (34) 105

    2004

    Schalk Burger (32) 100

  • Comment 104, posted at 13.05.15 12:28:18 by Letgo Reply
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  • The Stormers –

    - capped 4 new players in 2013, 2 were bought.
    - capped 11 new players in 2014, 2 were bought.
    - capped 7 new players in 2015, 2 were bought.

  • Comment 105, posted at 13.05.15 12:31:58 by Letgo Reply
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  • The Sharks –

    Players 24 and under – 14
    Players 25 and over – 24

    The Stormers -

    Players 24 and under – 22
    Players 25 and over – 12

  • Comment 106, posted at 13.05.15 12:37:20 by Letgo Reply
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  • I think it is pretty clear that the Sharks aren’t building their junior ranks up enough.

    I’m not saying they need to come from the academy, but there is plenty of promising 21 year olds that could be swooped up before they make their senior debut for their provinces.

    Plenty of the 22/23 year olds making their debuts for the Stormers recently played their junior rugby at Boland and even the Bulls and the Lions.

    Off Course you need to have a good mix of youth and experience, but I personally feel like the Sharks could have gotten away with buying 2 or 3 players at the most and still have fielded strong squads this year and if not, they should have looked at buying young players from other unions that would have been able to make the step up in position where we may have needed them this year.

  • Comment 107, posted at 13.05.15 12:44:21 by Letgo Reply
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  • buy buy buy. make more money. buy more. I dont see the fuss! Its a pro sport isnt it? Was Michael Jordan born in Chicago? Who plays for Toulon that was born in Toulon? No not everything must be tuisgebak soos ouma se melktert. We dont have a university to compare with Rhodes nevermind Tuks or Maties. So what do we do? We buy!

  • Comment 108, posted at 13.05.15 12:53:01 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 107) : You guys need to look at the Bulls . lots of un-utilized talent walking around there .

    Look at who the Lions brought in from the Bulls . Most of those players busy making names for themselves

  • Comment 109, posted at 13.05.15 12:58:15 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 108) : I don’t think the question is to buy or not. It is who you buy at what stage in their career.

  • Comment 110, posted at 13.05.15 13:02:16 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 107) :

    For example I would have loved to see Harold Voster approached before the Lions contracted him as a senior player. We could also pick up Williams Small Smith, who isn’t getting any game time at the Bulls, but looks potentially like a very good center.

    The Stormers have 4 wings that they have used during this Super Rugby, all of them won’t stay, are we looking at these guys or looking to pick Jason Robinson up out of retirement. They also have a number of promising centers who did duty in the absence of Juan de Jongh who will not see much game time at Province. Are we considering them as an option? Or will Doppies le Grange join us from the Griquas?

  • Comment 111, posted at 13.05.15 13:05:28 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 110) : Think the sharks only want to buy super stars and not get a player and develop him

  • Comment 112, posted at 13.05.15 13:06:21 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 111) : Vorster has been really impressive this year.

  • Comment 113, posted at 13.05.15 13:16:53 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 113)

    Thank goodness he resigned with the Lions ! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 114, posted at 13.05.15 13:20:25 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 114) : Don’t worry – he is safe from the Sharks in any case. They have a rule that a new acquisition must be older than 29 – preferably over 30.

  • Comment 115, posted at 13.05.15 13:28:38 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 115) :

    we will export him in 10 years time .

    i really believe you guys want to buy super stars instead of developing a player

  • Comment 116, posted at 13.05.15 13:33:40 by Zibbie Reply
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  • Agreed. The bulls currently have a lot of underutilized young talent maybe we should start there and not overseas has been. So do the kings and some pumas. You won’t easily buy a young guy from overseas only the over the hill ready for pension guys, fish locally.

  • Comment 117, posted at 13.05.15 13:35:27 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 114) :

    That’s the thing, he probably resigned because there wasn’t a better offer on the table.

  • Comment 118, posted at 13.05.15 14:13:15 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 118) : i would think thats the reason any player accepts any offer . or are you saying a player could not possible want to stay at the Lions ?

  • Comment 119, posted at 13.05.15 14:19:42 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 119) :

    No, I am saying if there were a better offer on the table I doubt that any 20 year old would not take it from any team to leave any other team – especially if playing opportunities would seem more likely at the team making the offer.

    Once injured players return the Lions still have plenty of qaulity in the midfield, the Sharks are running thin in our entire backline, especially if you take away the over 26 players.

  • Comment 120, posted at 13.05.15 14:38:00 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 116) : Superstars like Steven, Hoffmann, etc… If that’s what we’re trying to do we’re somehow achieving the opposite.

    The Sharks are basically the SPCA. We take in lost puppies, injured kittens and those cute piggies that have grown too large and old for their former owners to handle ;)

  • Comment 121, posted at 13.05.15 14:49:10 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 121) : Perez is a very good example of that.

  • Comment 122, posted at 13.05.15 14:59:00 by Ben Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 120) : I think Vorster is one of the players the Lions will be looking after . He should start most games but rotation is never a bad thing .

    @vanmartin (Comment 121) : i said “want” , not “do” :P

    but what about backing guys liek Paul Jordaan and Sibusiso Sithole in the centrers ?

  • Comment 123, posted at 13.05.15 15:35:41 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 123) : What is Vorster’s favoured position?

  • Comment 124, posted at 13.05.15 16:32:03 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 124) : well he moves between 12 and 13 for the Lions . so not sure .

    You guys need him to play flank ?

  • Comment 125, posted at 13.05.15 16:36:29 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 125) : No, just thinking about what you said. You rate him higher than Lionel Mapoe?

  • Comment 126, posted at 13.05.15 16:37:34 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 126) : think Vorster might have a brighter future . but we have space for both Mapoe and Vorster in the side

  • Comment 127, posted at 13.05.15 16:47:22 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 125) : @Ben (Comment 126) :

    Voster looked absolutely excellent inside Lionel, but then did really great when asked to shift to 13 when Lionel got injured. He’s a bit wasted on the wing IMO. The Lions should rather shift other players out and keep him in the midfield.

  • Comment 128, posted at 13.05.15 16:47:22 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 128) : i believe what ussaly happens is we start Vorster (12) and Mapoe (13) . then sub a wing and have Vorster 13 and Mapoe wing with misini (12)

    Dont think we ever use Vorster on the Wing ? or are you referring to Mapoe ?

  • Comment 129, posted at 13.05.15 16:50:05 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 127) :

    You guys have Mapoe, Voster, Stokkies. I rate all of them higher at 13 than Jordaan and Sithole. Sithole could still become a find at 13, but we’re not playing him there so he won’t devolop the skills needed for that position. Jordaan is an excellent player, but just doesn’t run the lines these guys do.

  • Comment 130, posted at 13.05.15 16:50:27 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 130) :

    Jordaan tends to back his pace to try and beat defenders. Your three outside centers, Voster most recently runs great lines and puts themselves in great position to open up opposition defenses.

    I also thought Huw Jones played a couple of really good games at 13 for the Stormers and William Small-Smith last season looked like a decent find in this channel.

    I wish more of the Sharks’ Vodacom Cup games were televised so that I could comment on our up and coming 13′s, but I can’t think that it is any worse than Waylong Murray and JPP at 13.

  • Comment 131, posted at 13.05.15 16:57:06 by Letgo Reply
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  • I still think the Sharks have plenty young brilliant talent left in the tank.
    If we can keep PSDT,with his brother ,the du Preez twins, Lewies,Coetzee,Bothma,Thomas du Toit,Marais Ungerer,Lambie,Sithole,Mtembu,Mvovu,
    That is a lot of talent most if not all of it under 25.
    We need a class 15 and another prop.
    I truly think we have hit the bottom of the trough and I believe we will come out the authorised a better team.

  • Comment 132, posted at 13.05.15 16:58:24 by The hound Reply
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  • Add Jordan and Tyler Fisher

  • Comment 133, posted at 13.05.15 16:59:26 by The hound Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 129) :

    My mistake. I thought he was shifted to the wing because of injuries to your back three.

  • Comment 134, posted at 13.05.15 17:03:25 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 130) : @Letgo (Comment 131) :

    let me put it this way . If Vorster started out at the Sharks , i dont think he would have gotten the opportunities he has been getting at the lions .

    He is shining because he is getting a good run there . You need to back your players and give them exposure .

    Not all at once . Try one oke outside frans steyn

  • Comment 135, posted at 13.05.15 17:09:22 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 134) :

    might be . im speaking under correction . but he did not start any games on wing

  • Comment 136, posted at 13.05.15 17:10:57 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 135) :

    I agree 100%. Not these days at least.

    We need to try Tyler Fisher or even Sithole next to Steyn and Jaco van Tonder or other up and coming fullback. We need to use Ungerer of the bench behind Reinach, or starting in his absence. Same goes for Zeilinga, but we aren’t playing these guys. It’s real disappointing.

    And getting Jacques Potgieter won’t help the exposure of our promising loosies.

  • Comment 137, posted at 13.05.15 17:15:03 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 123) : I’d put forward the same argument regardless of semantics. Nothing to date suggests we want to or are doing this.

    Regarding Sbu at centre, we’re all trying to figure it that one out. Let’s see if Rob can squeeze an answer out of Gary. Jordaan’s injury record is why we don’t see him there more often.

  • Comment 138, posted at 13.05.15 18:50:09 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Yoh this app is sweet!

  • Comment 139, posted at 13.05.15 19:28:22 by Surprise Attack Reply

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  • @Surprise Attack (Comment 139) : glad you like it bud

  • Comment 140, posted at 13.05.15 20:26:38 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan Rumour has it that the sharks have made a high profile signin. Any idea who this high profile player is?

  • Comment 141, posted at 13.05.15 21:43:59 by AYA11 Reply

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  • @AYA11 (Comment 141) : dude, the rumours I’m hearing are crazy. But nothing concrete.

  • Comment 142, posted at 13.05.15 22:34:34 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 142) : What rumours are you hearing?

  • Comment 143, posted at 13.05.15 22:38:19 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 143) : they are sooo crazy I can’t share them.

    The internet would explode

  • Comment 144, posted at 13.05.15 22:42:15 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 144) : Matthew Burke? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 145, posted at 13.05.15 22:45:23 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 145) : I loved that dude!

  • Comment 146, posted at 13.05.15 22:48:49 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 144) : Cruel! Good or bad rumours?

  • Comment 147, posted at 14.05.15 07:13:51 by Pokkel Reply
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  • On that front when is Claasens done with his commitments? Is he intended for CC only or will he be thrown in the deep end as soon as he gets here.

  • Comment 148, posted at 14.05.15 07:49:41 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @Ben (Comment 145) : He would certainly be old enough.

    Based on the Sharks unofficial acquisitions policy and the rumours that PSDT will be leaving, I am thinking it may be Victor Matfield.

  • Comment 149, posted at 14.05.15 08:15:13 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • Well I Have checked with the kings of unconfirmed rumours “die beeld” and nothing…very well kept secret, very intriguing. Tell us Rob so we can all have a laugh.

  • Comment 150, posted at 14.05.15 08:29:29 by coolfusion Reply

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  • According to news 24 the team will be unchanged for this weekend so I’m guessing all players came through the tests fine. Unfortunately it also means no-one better than cooper on the bench for loose cover and another week with lethargic JP at center. Isn’t it Einstein who said insanity is when you keep doing the same things over and over and expect different results?

  • Comment 151, posted at 14.05.15 08:36:14 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 150) @robdylan (Comment 144) : the suspense is torture!!!

  • Comment 152, posted at 14.05.15 08:36:39 by Kabouter Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 151) : Then all here are insane for we keep blogging the same requests / views / opinions / observations, over and over and over and …..

  • Comment 153, posted at 14.05.15 08:50:08 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • Maybe Hugh Reece Edwards has decided to step in and take the reigns. Maybe it’s part of the Japanese twinning deal.

  • Comment 154, posted at 14.05.15 08:54:23 by coolfusion Reply

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  • Ja but the difference is ours are words not actions. So we keep asking but it never gets done or tried. At least if it’s tried once or twice I could agree…

  • Comment 155, posted at 14.05.15 08:55:59 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 153) : amen!

  • Comment 156, posted at 14.05.15 08:56:06 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 153) : Now there’s a sobering thought :shock:

  • Comment 157, posted at 14.05.15 10:11:05 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Happy birthday FRANS STEYN. May there be many more and most of them in a sharks jersey. You certainly silenced some critics last week. This week we will see some more.

  • Comment 158, posted at 14.05.15 10:56:12 by coolfusion Reply

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  • Elton or Mapoe :P

  • Comment 159, posted at 14.05.15 15:28:04 by Zibbie Reply
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  • or robbie coetzee ! you guys might be happy with that one i think :P

  • Comment 160, posted at 14.05.15 15:28:31 by Zibbie Reply
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  • Mapoe or Coetzee. Elton no thanks

  • Comment 161, posted at 14.05.15 16:07:05 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 160) : why on earth would we need another hooker?

  • Comment 162, posted at 14.05.15 17:27:36 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 162) : To cover for our lack of depth in the loose forwards perhaps? :roll:

  • Comment 163, posted at 14.05.15 17:53:40 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 163) : but of course

  • Comment 164, posted at 14.05.15 18:01:32 by robdylan Reply
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  • Or at scrumhalf. Or at 15. I hear you use these hooker anywhere.

  • Comment 165, posted at 14.05.15 18:14:23 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @robdylan a lady in a sharks page on facebook. The lady says its a done deal and she has been sworn to secrecy with this. What did you hear Rob?

  • Comment 166, posted at 14.05.15 21:02:45 by AYA11 Reply

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  • @AYA11 (Comment 166) : none of the rumours I’ve heard are concrete enough for me to reveal them here. YET.

  • Comment 167, posted at 14.05.15 21:31:58 by robdylan Reply
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  • @AYA11 (Comment 166) : I saw that. Who do you think she’s hinting at?

  • Comment 168, posted at 14.05.15 22:08:43 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 168) : John Mitchell

  • Comment 169, posted at 14.05.15 22:17:06 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 169) : no, it’s a player

  • Comment 170, posted at 14.05.15 22:27:48 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 170) : Oh my word…the suspense! Any idea when it will become more concrete?

  • Comment 171, posted at 14.05.15 22:37:37 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 171) : nothing involving any SA player can possibly be concluded or communicated before 1 July

  • Comment 172, posted at 14.05.15 22:43:17 by robdylan Reply
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  • seriously, though, I think this lady is talking about a player that I’ve also heard talk about. Right now, it is beyond spurious and really not worth getting worked up about. If it happens, I’ll be amazed.

  • Comment 173, posted at 14.05.15 22:44:31 by robdylan Reply
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  • French top 14 done recently so maybe an import from there? I or Jacque Fourie may have changed his mind about retirement?

  • Comment 174, posted at 15.05.15 06:47:50 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 173) : I heard Bakkies wants to finish his career in Durbs so he can like to learn to surfs…can you confirm this? ;)

  • Comment 175, posted at 15.05.15 08:38:24 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 162) : those are they guys im not sure have resigned for the Lions for next season . :p

    orrrrrrr faf de klerk ?

  • Comment 176, posted at 15.05.15 08:43:51 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 175) : Wahl Bartmann is coming out of retirement.

    There, I said it!

  • Comment 177, posted at 15.05.15 08:58:16 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 177) : So is Beast taking over at Fidelity then? ;)

  • Comment 178, posted at 15.05.15 09:14:09 by SheldonK Reply

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  • Faf de Klerk. .pffft…I wish

  • Comment 179, posted at 15.05.15 15:14:41 by coolfusion Reply

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  • More likely FW de Klerk than Faf…..given the age averages of our recent purchases.

  • Comment 180, posted at 15.05.15 16:22:14 by coolfusion Reply

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