robdylan

The wild regret of the last goodbye


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks, Springboks, Super Rugby on 15 Jun 2015 at 14:39
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I’m not sure if it was just me, but did anyone else find the post-match scenes from Kings Park on Saturday night rather disturbing? I’m referring, of course, to the shots of visibly distressed Sharks stalwarts Bismarck and Jannie du Plessis breaking down in tears as they bade farewell to the Sharks faithful at Kings Park.

Emotion is never far from the surface at a time like this, but I’m really battling to reconcile what I saw on Saturday with the picture that’s been painted. More so what the brothers (and Bismarck in particular) have said during the week, speaking of clear regret at their impending departure and revealing that Durban is the only place they really want to play.

Something doesn’t add up here. If these two players are so passionate and committed about playing for the Sharks, then why are they leaving? “Words are wind”, as a favourite author of mine likes to say, but neither of the du Plessis brothers is a good enough actor to pull off the sort of emotional outpouring we saw on Saturday without there being genuine feeling behind it. No, call me naive if you will, but I cannot believe that there is not a genuine desire on the part of these two players to continue playing in black and white after this year’s World Cup.

So if it’s not desire, then it must be money, right? I mean, I can have all the desire in the world to do a particular job, but if the pay doesn’t stack up, then it’s not going to happen. Unless the brothers have a deal from Montpellier that is big enough that it simply swamps any other considerations (including their known distaste for head coach “Monsieur Blanc”), then I can’t see why it would be completely inconceivable for them to stay. After all, Beast Mtawarira (we’re told) is likely to remain in Durban and clearly a plan is being made to accommodate his demands.

The backdrop to my question here is the newly-agreed central contracting model that SARU is putting in place for top Bok players (which was reported in Rapport recently). In a nutshell, this model will see the national body pick up the majority of the tab for senior Boks (like Bismarck and Jannie), with the figure being as high as 70%. Let’s assume that these guys are worth something like R6-7m each per year; under the new model, the Sharks could have them for somewhere around R2m a year, with SARU paying the rest. That surely has to be less money than they’re costing on their current deals – surely? Obviously if the market value is higher, the Sharks’ portion will be too but basic maths dictates that they must be able to earn roughly the same as they are now, in total, with the Sharks having to pay less of it.

So if this isn’t about money (unless it is and I’m just misunderstanding the figures) then what is it about? Is there some other factor that we’re not aware of that it forcing the hand, either of the Sharks or of the du Plessis brothers? In order for a business transaction to take place, you need to have a willing buyer and a willing seller. Which party is unwilling in this case? And why?



96 Comments

  • Waiting for the biography… can’t see that we’ll find anything out before that.

    It was definitively sad for me to say goodbye, even more so because of their reluctance to go.

  • Comment 1, posted at 15.06.15 14:46:13 by Letgo Reply
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  • I think the big question is also: WHEN exactly did they sign for Mont Pellier? Did they sigh before the new SARU model, and (presumably) before Jake went there? If so, then yes, BIG regret indeed for them. :|

  • Comment 2, posted at 15.06.15 14:47:03 by Another Nick Reply

    Another NickSuper Rugby player
     
  • Bissie walked around the field shaking hands with every fan within reach and taking pictures with groups of people with a cellphone ready.

  • Comment 3, posted at 15.06.15 14:47:05 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Another Nick (Comment 2) : do we even know that they’ve signed anything?

    There’s so much smoke and mirrors here that I’m not even sure they have

  • Comment 4, posted at 15.06.15 14:48:02 by robdylan Reply
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  • They signed a contract for more money overseas. Only to realize that they will now have to play under JW and that they could have stayed here for the same money. Only it’s to late to unsign the contract and I doubt they can afford the buyout.

    But honestly it was time, they have been great players but lately they have been above the game. It’s time to move on, for us and them.

  • Comment 5, posted at 15.06.15 14:50:37 by Seth101 Reply
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  • I left a company after 12 years and i can relate to how they feel. A j9b at the end of the day is less about what you do abd more about the people you do it with.

    How much more rugby a team sport.

  • Comment 6, posted at 15.06.15 14:51:07 by byron Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 4) : Wasn’t it you who said they signed contracts with R1mill buyouts, or was that someone else?

  • Comment 7, posted at 15.06.15 14:51:27 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 4) : Rob it’s smoke and mirrors deluxe!! I would love some transparency.. and to be honest, I think it is owed to us fans to know what the hell. On the one hand you have Smit saying farewells and applauding them, on the other you have Gold who says that he is hoping to keep them here still. Does the one hand not know what the other is doing??

  • Comment 8, posted at 15.06.15 14:56:24 by Another Nick Reply

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  • @Seth101 (Comment 7) : I reported that based on what somebody else had said, but that position has since been refuted by their agent.

    Like I said, plenty of obfuscation here and I don’t know what the truth is.

  • Comment 9, posted at 15.06.15 14:56:58 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 4) : I said before that I thought these guys made a deal,then expected the Union to match it.
    The union looked at what they got out of them this season and the amount of disruption they had caused and said,maybe we can better invest this money elsewhere,and called their bluff.
    They then said up yours we will go to Montpellier,and shit before the ink was dry guess who else signed,and probably with a mandate not to tolerate any player shit.
    I probably would be crying as well.

  • Comment 10, posted at 15.06.15 14:57:38 by The hound Reply
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  • a million points to anyone who can tell me where the headline comes from (and why)

  • Comment 11, posted at 15.06.15 14:58:25 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 7) : They were said to have been given a cash advance of a million or 1.5 each on signing for Montpellier.

  • Comment 12, posted at 15.06.15 14:58:58 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • I think they want to stay, but the draw of the euro and the thought that they are closing into the end of their careers must make the decision to leave a little easier, if not totally what they wanted.

  • Comment 13, posted at 15.06.15 14:59:23 by Dragnipur Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 10) : I have to agree, they are just not worth it. It’s time for everyone to move on and build for next year.

  • Comment 14, posted at 15.06.15 15:01:18 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 11) : Something Vera Lynn sang to departing second world war soldiers? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 15, posted at 15.06.15 15:03:07 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 11) : Google tells me it’s in the Harrow school song :D

  • Comment 16, posted at 15.06.15 15:05:46 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 10) : Your time line is so out of sync as to make this scenario not possible.

  • Comment 17, posted at 15.06.15 15:06:15 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 16) : Or something like that.

  • Comment 18, posted at 15.06.15 15:07:03 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 16) : you have hte where, but not the why

  • Comment 19, posted at 15.06.15 15:10:02 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 11) : oscar wilde?

  • Comment 20, posted at 15.06.15 15:12:08 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 19) : because they had to kill the thing they loved?

  • Comment 21, posted at 15.06.15 15:14:17 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 21) : keep guessing

  • Comment 22, posted at 15.06.15 15:19:35 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 19) : The regret of eventually having to move on and the desire hold on to the nostalgia of a happier past?

  • Comment 23, posted at 15.06.15 15:19:50 by Seth101 Reply
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  • I have completely forgotten the deliteful kak you guys can talk …it’s like a breath of fresh air … ;-)

  • Comment 24, posted at 15.06.15 15:22:28 by The Brand Reply

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  • Contractual obligation if there was an offer of bailout and possibility of such without prosecution then maybe. Or maybe they just got emotional on the moment is all. Does not take a great actor to get very emotional in one moment and become rational again later?

  • Comment 25, posted at 15.06.15 15:31:00 by coolfusion Reply

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  • I wonder who will play Bismarck in the movie and if he will be able to match the emotional intensity? My money is on Hugh Jackman

  • Comment 26, posted at 15.06.15 15:33:09 by coolfusion Reply

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  • If you are the Emperor of your own little Empire you also cry when you had to leave it.

  • Comment 27, posted at 15.06.15 15:41:54 by Feather Reply

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  • Come on they signed the deal cause they are getting more money and a Helluva life experience. They worked hard for us they can move on. So should we they won’t last forever either so now may be a good time. While there aren’t too many kids and things?

  • Comment 28, posted at 15.06.15 15:41:57 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 26) : he’s to small maybe the Rock!!!!

  • Comment 29, posted at 15.06.15 15:51:16 by JD Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 19) : because they already resigned with the Sharks for when the European contract is over and so we will meet again!
    Thanx for the points Rob.

  • Comment 30, posted at 15.06.15 15:55:21 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 29) : Didn’t think of that. Or Vin diesel with a toupee.

  • Comment 31, posted at 15.06.15 15:57:14 by coolfusion Reply

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  • I say it’s a great adventure and would also take it. They have done as much at the sharks as they probably can bar winning a super…maybe it would be nice to win Aviva top 14 or some such. Play against different clubs other styles they are young and before it’s all over they want to experience more and get paid nicely to do it. So you cry on the day, cause you are overwhelmed that’s all…

  • Comment 32, posted at 15.06.15 16:00:38 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @Another Nick (Comment 2) : I think that may be the explanation we’re looking for?

  • Comment 33, posted at 15.06.15 16:02:01 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 4) : Wow…I wouldn’t have thought that…sjoe…

  • Comment 34, posted at 15.06.15 16:03:55 by pastorshark Reply
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  • These two like Matfield don’t want to be away from SA and their unions. Simple as that. May have been an easier decision at the time of signing the contracts but time went reality began to sink in. Pity contracts are binding and one can get sued for breach of contract and have damages claimed against. The Sharks though need the cash we are going to save from our 3 heroes. I am assuming that it is at least R8 million per annum in total. That is enough for an entire coaching staff and 4 other youngsters. Assuming our entire coaching staff’s salary excluding Gary is about R3.5m pa.

  • Comment 35, posted at 15.06.15 16:05:33 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 35) : Talking about an experienced coaching staff.

  • Comment 36, posted at 15.06.15 16:07:41 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 35) : where do you get R8m from?

  • Comment 37, posted at 15.06.15 16:10:16 by robdylan Reply
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  • Bismark also said post match that he thought that he would play his entire career at one club but that it didnt work out that way. So somewhere there’s a glitch in it

  • Comment 38, posted at 15.06.15 16:10:25 by JustPlainSHARK Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 37) : when am I getting my points?

  • Comment 39, posted at 15.06.15 16:12:47 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 39) : when you get the answer right :)

  • Comment 40, posted at 15.06.15 16:14:05 by robdylan Reply
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  • Ag our dependence on them was hurting our ability to build for the future anyways. What they did van also be seen as a mercy from them to us. Besides in my wild conspiracy theory I say them signing with Toulon was done or agreed at a time when they really wanted to leave or felt disgruntled during or post Jake or even with the coming of Gary …yet let things go a little to far and could not legally back out when they heard about Jake.

  • Comment 41, posted at 15.06.15 16:17:43 by coolfusion Reply

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  • so to sum up the mood on the comments thread, we’re not losing anything in getting rid of these two players?

    Is that accurate?

  • Comment 42, posted at 15.06.15 16:24:38 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 37) : it is a thumb suck of about R2.5 to R2.8m per annum for each of the 3 players, multiply that by 3 to get the R8m. Point is that there is a lot we can do with this cashflow! If Plum was asking WP for R4m I doubt then that our portion of their salaries is less than R2.5m pa.

  • Comment 43, posted at 15.06.15 16:25:21 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • you may love the Sharks, boys, but the Sharks don’t love you. Time to go.

    Seems harsh. I realise I’m one of their fiercest critics, but that seems harsh.

  • Comment 44, posted at 15.06.15 16:25:33 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 42) : We are because they are of a form and readiness we can’t yet match. But time will change that and in the long term they will have done us a service if we (management) use the opportunity correctly. Necessity is the mother of invention and all that.

  • Comment 45, posted at 15.06.15 16:28:19 by coolfusion Reply

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  • Nope no one said we don’t love them. But would you hold back your son from experiencing life and growing just cause you can’t let go and you don’t think you can survive without them?

  • Comment 46, posted at 15.06.15 16:30:27 by coolfusion Reply

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  • Besides there’s always a chance bissie don’t like frog legs or doesn’t have his heart in it and it becomes easier to get out.

  • Comment 47, posted at 15.06.15 16:32:58 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 43) : ok, except I’m not talking about Alberts. He seems ready to move on and I agree that for him the time is right.

  • Comment 48, posted at 15.06.15 16:35:00 by robdylan Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 41) : You mean Montpellier as opposed to Toulon?

  • Comment 49, posted at 15.06.15 16:36:49 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 44) : No…we loved them…still do. I wouldn’t be against them staying…but we’ll move on too and will get over the loss…hopefully with a new signing or two in the front row!

  • Comment 50, posted at 15.06.15 16:39:23 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 42) : Thats right, we are losing nothing, nothing at all, now let me go and bury my head another metre under the sand.

  • Comment 51, posted at 15.06.15 16:39:43 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 44) : When you think of great Natal/Sharks captains,Tommy Bedford,Wynand Claasens,Craig Jameison,Gary Teich,John Smit,you just know the Union would never have let them go without a fight.O.K John did leave ,but he was supposed to have retired.
    You just get the feeling that these guys although as good if not better players were just not that respected by the Union.No other provinces in South Africa are interested in them either.That in itself tells a story.

  • Comment 52, posted at 15.06.15 16:41:28 by The hound Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 44) : Not me. I’m absolutely gutted they are leaving.

  • Comment 53, posted at 15.06.15 16:43:26 by gregkaos Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 42) : Let the doubters answer this next year when our scrum gets marched around the field backwards and when we cant compete for a ball on the ground…please stay Marcel. I hope Im wrong, I doubt it.

  • Comment 54, posted at 15.06.15 16:43:50 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 42) : in losing Bissy we’re losing a world class hooker one that we can’t come close to replacing with any other SA player (except Strauss).
    As far as Doc he’s one hell of a thighthead and a real work horse for the Sharks and Bokke. Of all the current Bokke I’m sure he clocked the most time spent on the field (National and provincial) but he’s binding is not according to the rules and I’m gatvol for his attempts at trying to teach the refs about the rules of rugby (especially seen in light of his illegal binding) so for me he’ll be replaced way easier than his brother.
    Must say I have mixed feelings about seeing them go. I don’t know them nor have I met them so can’t really say if they have ego problems (that seemingly some senior Bokke players and “big” provincial players have). At times they make me mad and other times they make sad but for sure there were a lot of times that they made me glad!!!!!
    If they leave the Sharks will struggle in the scrums in next year’s Super rugby and ja I must say all being said and done I will really miss them especially Bissy.

  • Comment 55, posted at 15.06.15 16:44:22 by JD Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 52) : “No other provinces in South Africa are interested in them either.That in itself tells a story.” where do you get your info from, seriously Im starting to think you make it up as the day goes by.

  • Comment 56, posted at 15.06.15 16:46:01 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 54) : Short memory our scrum got marched around a couple of times this year,remember and they both were playing.
    Alberts I felt the whole year was saving himself for the World Cup,don’t blame him for that ,but he did sweet F.A for us this year except wipe out that Michaelhouse boy.

  • Comment 57, posted at 15.06.15 16:48:32 by The hound Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 56) : Well where are the offers,then.

  • Comment 58, posted at 15.06.15 16:49:20 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 58) : Rephrase that where are the rumours of local offers then.

  • Comment 59, posted at 15.06.15 16:51:40 by The hound Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 54) : we are not talking about Marcel. Him we still need at all costs. With regards to tighthead….Vincent can’t be too happy that he gets to play from the bench most of the time. Let’s be aggressive and bring him on board.

  • Comment 60, posted at 15.06.15 16:53:18 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • Happy with the 3 backup hookers. Let’s just get a good coach on board to bring out the best in them.

  • Comment 61, posted at 15.06.15 16:54:33 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • @pastorshark (Comment 49) : Sorry yes …I been checking up on the Web on another player. Toulon got stuck in my head.

  • Comment 62, posted at 15.06.15 16:55:56 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 56) : C’mon man tells who is rumoured to be interested.Not an hour goes by that someone here doesn’t comment on the rumoured move of Marcel and PSDT to Province,yet to see one linking the dupe brothers to anywhere but,Jake White and Montpellier.

  • Comment 63, posted at 15.06.15 16:56:40 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 58) : @The hound (Comment 59) : How would I know where the rumours or offers are – do you know that there werent any as you state as a fact and then try and casst aspersions on their characters because of something you dont know but try to peddle as fact.

  • Comment 64, posted at 15.06.15 16:59:09 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • I have said it before I doubt we have a hooker of Bismarck caliber not only in sharks but in SA sure Ole Blondie starts is ok but if I am seriously outgunned I want Bismark to lead the charge. Jannie is very good and I will miss him too we do have better in SA but not in sharks. Willie is the man period. Yes he gets hurt but he is the one and only bone crusher and we will be talking of him in years to come like we are talking about Andre and Andrew and Gary and wynand . Does that answer the question?

  • Comment 65, posted at 15.06.15 17:00:48 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 65) : Blondie being Strauss. ..

  • Comment 66, posted at 15.06.15 17:01:29 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 60) : And if we do lose him we will rue losing Bismarck even more. If Koch goes anywhere it will be to the Stormers.

  • Comment 67, posted at 15.06.15 17:03:09 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 63) : Yeah right, no team in the world would want the Doep brothers.

  • Comment 68, posted at 15.06.15 17:05:00 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 62) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 69, posted at 15.06.15 17:12:12 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 60) : Necessity is the mother of invention as I keep saying. Maybe we will be forced now. Although Gold did hint at some purchases of seniors to fill the gaps the dips are leaving?

  • Comment 70, posted at 15.06.15 17:14:15 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 11) : Is it the “though you scarce know why…your eyes will fill…?”

  • Comment 71, posted at 15.06.15 18:57:55 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 71) : it’s the right song, but why is it relevant here?

  • Comment 72, posted at 15.06.15 19:14:32 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 72) : I’m thinking because the time will come when our eyes fill because we regret this last goodbye…we’ll regret that these guys have left…wildly…close?

  • Comment 73, posted at 15.06.15 19:27:54 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 11) : Harrow school. A teacher that cheated on test papers to help her students and got caught just before she retired.

  • Comment 74, posted at 15.06.15 19:35:30 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 74) : there’s a school in South Africa that models itself on Harrow and uses the same songs

  • Comment 75, posted at 15.06.15 19:36:27 by robdylan Reply
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  • Ah! John Smit’s alma mater…Pretoria Boys High…John Smit will regret this last goodbye wildly…

  • Comment 76, posted at 15.06.15 19:42:01 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 76) : correct :)

  • Comment 77, posted at 15.06.15 20:00:15 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 72) : So I’m guessing, the brothers Doep decided to leave the Sharks for Montpellier whilst White (and because White) still coached the Sharks…now they will be shacked up with the exact problem that made them leave the Sharks.

    …and all this somehow ties in with your headline, and that song/school.

  • Comment 78, posted at 15.06.15 20:08:05 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 77) : So how many stars does he get for a million points? ;-)

  • Comment 79, posted at 15.06.15 20:10:33 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • There is a good saying we have in Afrikaans: Spyt kom te laat. I think they just realised after the game on Sat how much they love Natal and the fans them.
    Oh and the fact that Jake is gonna be there too made them regret their decision – well thats if the rumours are to believed about them and Jake not quite hitting it off. Well this is my theory anyway lol :mrgreen:

  • Comment 80, posted at 15.06.15 20:13:31 by RedSharkUtd82 Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 79) : Rob’s clues mean the final answer only really deserves several thousand points! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 81, posted at 15.06.15 20:20:58 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 77) : Very clever…

  • Comment 82, posted at 15.06.15 20:22:03 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 42) : definitely not from me,as I said how the hell do you replace these 3 players and yes none of the emotional reactions/outpouring or official spin adds up

  • Comment 83, posted at 15.06.15 23:09:16 by benji Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 82) : my alma mater as well. So the headline was perhaps a little bit of bait for someone I really want to read this….

  • Comment 84, posted at 16.06.15 00:05:58 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 84) : Confirmation that John Smit reads Sharksworld? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 85, posted at 16.06.15 03:01:34 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 84) : :lol: Excleent…

  • Comment 86, posted at 16.06.15 06:36:44 by pastorshark Reply
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  • They’ll be sorely missed and not only because they’ve been so essential to our gameplan these past few years.

  • Comment 87, posted at 16.06.15 08:40:52 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 87) : Yup…

  • Comment 88, posted at 16.06.15 08:42:36 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Lots of blind folks here we will really miss all 3 players. Maybe this is some kind of coping mechanism.

  • Comment 89, posted at 16.06.15 09:55:12 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 84) : my view he is the reason Bissy wants to move on,Willem was going anyway,but Bissy ,after being stuck out for so long by JS perhaps could not stomach JS being his boss,nothing to do with Jake,that’s just Sharks spin ,so hence the move with all the emotion

  • Comment 90, posted at 16.06.15 20:26:33 by benji Reply
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  • Rumours of Jimmy Stonehouse has also applied for the Sharks Head coach position, truth be told he also did apply for Bulls, and Kings position.

    @FireTheLooser (Comment 78) : Fires you hit the nail on the head.

  • Comment 91, posted at 16.06.15 20:29:42 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @benji (Comment 90) : Benji our theorist :mrgreen:

  • Comment 92, posted at 16.06.15 20:30:35 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 91) : the position wasn’t advertised, so I’m not sure how he could have applied.

    I think it’s more a case of some journo phoning him up and saying “Hey jimmy, would you be keen to coach the Sharks, Bulls, Stormers or Kings” to which he probably said “yes”.

  • Comment 93, posted at 16.06.15 22:14:26 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 93) : :mrgreen: The anticipation is killing me…

  • Comment 94, posted at 16.06.15 23:03:40 by pastorshark Reply
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  • http://www.rugby365.com/article/66940-jake-welcomes-du-plessis-brothers

    Interesting…

  • Comment 95, posted at 17.06.15 20:01:27 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 95) : yes.

  • Comment 96, posted at 17.06.15 20:17:15 by robdylan Reply
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