robdylan

Smal confirms du Toit negotiations


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks, Super Rugby on 22 Jun 2015 at 10:05
Tagged with : , , , ,

“Loyalty” is a strange word these days – at least, that’s the way it would seem. An article on EWN’s website this morning quotes Western Province Director of Rugby Gert Smal and confirms that Sharks lock Pieter-Steph du Toit is in negotiations with the Cape Union, relating to a move to Newlands next season.

Du Toit, in an interview with The Mercury’s Mike Greenaway several weeks ago, went on record about just how much he owes the Sharks, the union that has seen him safely through three successive major injury rehabilitation periods over the last 30 months and have continued, unflinchingly, to pay out both contract fees and medical bills for a player who has managed to play only 8 times in Super Rugby (and a further 5 in Currie Cup) over that period.

When speaking to Greenaway, du Toit indicated that this investment – and loyalty – from the union that discovered him as a raw 19-year-old and promoted him straight into their senior ranks, ahead of more established second row options, might be repaid in kind. We know that there’s a big renewal offer on the table in Durban and yet, all talk of loyalty aside, du Toit has opted not to sign it, but to rather seek permission to enter into negotiations with another union.

John Smit should clearly have rather bought a dog.



168 Comments

  • With so much smoke making the rounds I do not see him or Marcel staying around any longer.

  • Comment 1, posted at 22.06.15 10:10:14 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • And here we go again. Smit should do the honourable thing and step down before more damage is done.

  • Comment 2, posted at 22.06.15 10:11:24 by JarsonX Reply
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  • Our dismal SR campaign inflicted more damage than we think it would seem.

  • Comment 3, posted at 22.06.15 10:14:35 by RedSharkUtd82 Reply

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  • @JarsonX (Comment 2) : How would that help?

    It might be his agent just trying to get the best deal possible out of the Sharks. PSDT seems like a real great and honest guy, I don’t think he’ll double cross the Sharks. Unfortunately the agents has a lot of say regarding the contracts, and they seem to be bloodthirsty buggers, so here’s to hoping there’s a little wiggle room in the budget to give Marcell and PSDT what they want.

  • Comment 4, posted at 22.06.15 10:14:51 by Dragnipur Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 2) : What more could he have done,seriously that is a well written article,the player has received everything from the union and has put relatively little back in.

  • Comment 5, posted at 22.06.15 10:14:53 by The hound Reply
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  • Would not call it a double cross if he moved this is business. Also there are softer issues to consider like family like feeling unsure or uncomfortable in the structures. At the end of the day these boys are grown ups. They have agents they weigh up odds and come to a decision. Sharks must weigh up their value and make an offer but other than putting in an offer nothing more management can do. You can’t force them to stay and you don’t want an unhappy player to stay.

  • Comment 6, posted at 22.06.15 10:18:54 by coolfusion Reply

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  • I’m talking about the overall state of affairs at the Sharks. That! I place squarely at JS feet.

  • Comment 7, posted at 22.06.15 10:18:57 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 1) : Though Rob informs us that Marcell has now agreed in principle to stay at the Sharks! Yay… :mrgreen:

  • Comment 8, posted at 22.06.15 10:21:50 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Not sure this is one to cry about. Willem Alberts proved that a game breaker who only plays 60% of the time is just not worth it.

  • Comment 9, posted at 22.06.15 10:22:21 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 7) : I agree don’t knock the player when the Sharks rugby is in the state its in,rather question the loyalty of those supposedly in charge,serious players will move on in this state,

  • Comment 10, posted at 22.06.15 10:22:39 by benji Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 2) : Don’t count the Stormers eggs before they hatch. Let’s see what happens. John did well to keep PSdT a while back when the Bulls wanted him. Let’s see whether he gets it right again…

  • Comment 11, posted at 22.06.15 10:23:06 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 9) : If only it was 60%,8 Super rugby games and 5 Currie Cup games in 3 seasons is a helluva lot lower.
    This’ll would be a lot easier to swallow if Lewies were not also as injury prone.
    Would love to see the Sharks take that money and hunt either the Baby Bok locks.

  • Comment 12, posted at 22.06.15 10:26:33 by The hound Reply
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  • I must say that I would be very disappointed in PSdT if he did go. If he did it at some stage I would get it, but to do it now without putting something back in after everything the Sharks have done for him…well, that would be disappointing.

  • Comment 13, posted at 22.06.15 10:27:00 by pastorshark Reply
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  • I would be seriously pissed off is PSDT decides to leave.. I realise that WP must have heaps of cash around after the Duane deal, but still. But I guess Rob is right. Loyalty only goes as far as the dog lying at your feet.

  • Comment 14, posted at 22.06.15 10:28:07 by Another Nick Reply

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  • If he does go, we will certainly have to stock up on locks…

  • Comment 15, posted at 22.06.15 10:29:00 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 13) : Disappointment is a massive understatement. :|

  • Comment 16, posted at 22.06.15 10:31:01 by Another Nick Reply

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  • I never mentioned a player. Can you read?

  • Comment 17, posted at 22.06.15 10:31:16 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @Another Nick (Comment 16) : I was being diplomatic… :mrgreen:

  • Comment 18, posted at 22.06.15 10:32:39 by pastorshark Reply
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  • In other news I see sharks are teaming up with durbs tourism in a lucrative deal. Seems like the business end is going ok. Now just focus on the core and get some stability there. WP has just as much uncertainty as sharks so I’m not worried that they will beat us on that score if anything personal issues will be the decider. We do need to show some progress or at least a plan in selecting the head coach just to calm some nerves maybe?

  • Comment 19, posted at 22.06.15 10:33:22 by coolfusion Reply

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  • I guarantee that if things at the Sharks were in a better state then it wouldve been easier to put pen to paper. Uncertainty in the workplace is a major factor.

  • Comment 20, posted at 22.06.15 10:34:09 by JarsonX Reply
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  • I reserve judgement and put a zip on my mouth and thoughts until the player makes a call.

  • Comment 21, posted at 22.06.15 10:35:03 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 18) : :lol:

  • Comment 22, posted at 22.06.15 10:35:15 by Another Nick Reply

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  • @JarsonX (Comment 20) : There isn’t one settled Union in South Africa,Bulls in chaos,Stormers at a crossroads,Cheetahs another new beggining,Lions first year of stability since Louis Luyt left.

  • Comment 23, posted at 22.06.15 10:38:40 by The hound Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 21) : Fair call…

  • Comment 24, posted at 22.06.15 10:39:38 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 20) : @The hound (Comment 23) : That is a valid point though…

  • Comment 25, posted at 22.06.15 10:40:12 by pastorshark Reply
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  • This is making me crazy. Just stay or go already. Get it over with!!!

    With the money we’ll save with Bismarck, Jannie, Willem, PSDT and Marcell of our books, we can surely come up with something to ease the pain of losing them.

    First thing, we better win next years Super Rugby and thrash the Stormers (who hopefully ends at the bottom of the log).

    Hopefully them leaving will be enough insensitive for everyone at the Sharks to show them what they are missing.

  • Comment 26, posted at 22.06.15 10:45:31 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 26) : Well put,but first lets win the Currie Cup.

  • Comment 27, posted at 22.06.15 10:47:22 by The hound Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 8) : awesome hope he stays as well as Du Toit.

  • Comment 28, posted at 22.06.15 10:48:03 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 26) : It does look promising for Marcell to stay though…see Rob’s comment that he has agreed in principle to stay…and I for one will be very happy about that! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 29, posted at 22.06.15 10:49:19 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 27) : Lets get a Head Coach first lol :mrgreen:

  • Comment 30, posted at 22.06.15 10:49:32 by RedSharkUtd82 Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 27) : Yes, let’s!

  • Comment 31, posted at 22.06.15 10:50:31 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @RedSharkUtd82 (Comment 30) : Oh yes, let’s do that too! And let’s make it the right one…

  • Comment 32, posted at 22.06.15 10:51:21 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Players need to be incentivized to sign longer contracts so we don’t have to go through this ever damn year.

  • Comment 33, posted at 22.06.15 10:51:28 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 32) : There is the challenge – getting the right one :mrgreen:

  • Comment 34, posted at 22.06.15 10:52:26 by RedSharkUtd82 Reply

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  • @Letgo (Comment 26) : My thoughts exactly. It’s making me crazy too. I don’t even want to watch rugby when our young players are playing for another union. It makes a mockery of the idea of supporting one union or another. Clearly PS du Toit did not mean what he said to Mike Greenaway. I long for the days when players stayed – like Jeacque Botes.

  • Comment 35, posted at 22.06.15 10:52:47 by Den Reply

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  • @Seth101 (Comment 33) : I’m afraid it will only get more like this…

  • Comment 36, posted at 22.06.15 10:53:26 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Wow – with all these player movements its like the EPL transfer season :mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen: :lol:

  • Comment 37, posted at 22.06.15 10:53:52 by RedSharkUtd82 Reply

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  • @RedSharkUtd82 (Comment 34) : Yup…it is near the top of my wish list…

  • Comment 38, posted at 22.06.15 10:54:00 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @RedSharkUtd82 (Comment 37) : I reckon it will be moving in that direction!

  • Comment 39, posted at 22.06.15 10:55:05 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Den (Comment 35) : Of course he came from the Pumas…and then stayed…
    Guys and girls, this will all move in the direction of the football set up. I do think it is a bit sad…but that doesn’t change the fact that it will happen…

  • Comment 40, posted at 22.06.15 10:57:32 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 36) : If we were buying the same quality we were selling I wouldn’t have a problem, hell I would be all for it. But so far our buying has been pretty poor.

  • Comment 41, posted at 22.06.15 10:58:30 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 29) :

    I know, and I’d love for them both to stay, but get it over already.

    I can see why both players would think the Stormers deal could be a good one, but I think it would be a mistake. The Sharks have been good to them, to their careers. Will the Stormers be? Maybe not.

  • Comment 42, posted at 22.06.15 10:58:40 by Letgo Reply
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  • I have been all for rugby going the way of football, but you can’t buy second tier players and sell your stars, that is not how you do well.

  • Comment 43, posted at 22.06.15 11:00:14 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 39) : True.

    Ps – at least you guys (NUFC) got a good manager for next season ;-)

  • Comment 44, posted at 22.06.15 11:01:12 by RedSharkUtd82 Reply

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  • @Letgo (Comment 42) : Guess it boils down to who is the better negotiator: Gert Smal or Smittie. Probably the one with the biggest cheque-book. Nauseating. :x

  • Comment 45, posted at 22.06.15 11:01:26 by Another Nick Reply

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  • @Letgo (Comment 42) : Marcell will stay…I don’t know about PSdT. It’s not that I don’t get what you’re saying…it’s just also clear why there is interest in this. The Marcell thing has been going on a while but is almost resolved. The PSdT was only truly announced today, so it will take a while to sort out. In the meantime I will keep watching with interest…

  • Comment 46, posted at 22.06.15 11:01:52 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 46) : Yea but last week PSdT was staying and Marcel was going….

  • Comment 47, posted at 22.06.15 11:03:28 by Seth101 Reply
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  • I know this sounds weird but when I read the headline,I thought it was Thomas du Toit,and was surprisingly relieved to realise it wasn’t.
    I think PSDT is a fantastic player,but he comes with a whole lot of problems,to play the game he does you need to be in perfect condition,he has seriously dodgy knees.
    I hope I am wrong because when he is on song you won’t find a more exciting player.
    But as I said earlier a season of Super rugby,Four Nations,World Cup and then Currie Cup is far too much

  • Comment 48, posted at 22.06.15 11:04:08 by The hound Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 43) : We don’t want to sell these two stars. If it happens, it will happen for other reasons than us wanting to. If we do sell them we will have to try our best to replace them…but that is not easy. The Willie signing does indicate we also have intentions…but there are many factors that influence whether we can put our intentions into practice…

  • Comment 49, posted at 22.06.15 11:05:04 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 48) : Fair point…

  • Comment 50, posted at 22.06.15 11:05:56 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 21) : Wise. I’ll follow suit.

  • Comment 51, posted at 22.06.15 11:07:52 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 47) : The difference is that last week’s “PSdT is staying” had nothing official to back it up. Marcel has officially agreed in principle to stay with the Sharks. That is a formal, though not final, step forward…we’ll see what PSdT does…

  • Comment 52, posted at 22.06.15 11:08:40 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @RedSharkUtd82 (Comment 44) : Come on!! I hope it is a better year…

  • Comment 53, posted at 22.06.15 11:10:45 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Unflinching Rob?

    Lets not confuse contractual obligations with generosity.

    If PSdT moves, it wont be about money or loyalty, it’ll be because something is rotten in the state of Natal.
    No happy team loses several Springboks at the same time.

  • Comment 54, posted at 22.06.15 11:13:24 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • Given PSdT’s previous comments, along with the “huge” offer on the table, tells me there some pretty unhappy campers in Natal if he’s even considering other otpions.

    Sounds like there are more push factors coming out of Durban than pull factors elsewhere.

  • Comment 55, posted at 22.06.15 11:18:47 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 54) : That statement seems to include a fair bit of assumption? The Alberts and Dup moves, in my view, generally fit into the category of “last few years of career overseas”…do you not think the PSdT move has quite a bit to do with home and family? If Marcell does confirm that he is staying, it would argue that things aren’t quite so rotten at the Sharks, no? The fact that he was targeted by the Stormers has more to do with them not having a proper fetcher. And of course a number of Springboks are also leaving the Stormers and the Bulls. Are things also rotten there? Or are not just the same factors that I have pointed out above at play?

  • Comment 56, posted at 22.06.15 11:19:51 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 53) : Im sure it will be as long as your owner lets SM do his job ;-)

  • Comment 57, posted at 22.06.15 11:20:15 by RedSharkUtd82 Reply

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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 54) : Yeah but at least our players wait till the end of the season to leave,and don’t pop up in Europe while the rest of the team are about to choke in another playoff game.

  • Comment 58, posted at 22.06.15 11:21:00 by The hound Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 56) :

    Just all paints a picture mate.
    We’ll see what happens, but the turnover in Dubrs has been breathtaking of late, coaching and playing.

  • Comment 59, posted at 22.06.15 11:25:22 by VinChainSaw Reply
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  • Quite a few players are anxious about the pending acquisitions of Head Coaches…..the general confusion as to whom these top players are entrusting there respective next 2 / 3 years is weighing down heavy on some shoulders. Gold, Smal and whoever is in charge of the Bulls need to get clarity a sap.

  • Comment 60, posted at 22.06.15 11:25:36 by grant10 Reply

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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 59) : At least I don’t have egg on my face,the talk was about the Sharks being an unhappy place,and the Stormers being a better option.
    Don’t get all racist and personal buddy.

  • Comment 61, posted at 22.06.15 11:27:00 by The hound Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 59) : I hear you. My issue is not really about him wanting to go to where the grass is greener.

    It’s about the (perceived) duplicity in what he says and what he then does.

  • Comment 62, posted at 22.06.15 11:32:32 by robdylan Reply
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  • The grass is always greener – we’ll see how it turns out if they leave. There is always an uncertainty when signing with a new union. Especially one that’s in the same class as the other – Bulls, Stormers, Sharks. If they go, I don’t think it will be for a bigger check. I think they would go because they think things are going downhill at the Sharks.

    This just means if the Stormers go through something similar in a few years they’ll be out of there just as fast. The Sharks are the most consistent SA Super Rugby Franchise, we’ll be back, I don’t doubt it. Just as I don’t don’t that the Stormers will have a couple of right of years to come (even with PSDT and Marcell Coetzee in their ranks).

  • Comment 63, posted at 22.06.15 11:33:02 by Letgo Reply
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  • @RedSharkUtd82 (Comment 57) : Please? I’m asking so nicely…

  • Comment 64, posted at 22.06.15 11:34:40 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 59) : You’re right…we’ll see… :lol:

  • Comment 65, posted at 22.06.15 11:35:19 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Bad move Piet. Most established players who moved down to the Cape were simply not the same after the move – Habana, Jacques Fourie, Elton, Taute

  • Comment 66, posted at 22.06.15 11:41:24 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • If a player is offered more, then I don’t expect them to stay. This is their livelihoods, but leaving because times are tough (while still being offered equal or even larger pay), is not on in my book.

    I think the Sharks can and will match anything the Stormers are willing to offer.

    PSDT and Marcell will see, that sticking it out with their union, showing some loyalty , will be better for them in the long run.

    In saying that, if the Stormers are throwing much more money at them, then I can’t expect them to stay. In the end they need to think about what’s best for their future and providing for their families too.

  • Comment 67, posted at 22.06.15 11:41:33 by Letgo Reply
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  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 55) : Bulldust. His family is in the Swartland, and CT is a lot closer to that than Durban. You can’t put a monetary figure on that. And I’m pretty sure we gave a huge offer, but the WP also has loads of spare cash in the kitty with the players leaving there, so they could have made him a truly obscene offer.

  • Comment 68, posted at 22.06.15 11:43:12 by Dragnipur Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 62) :

    If the grass is in fact greener… in terms of money that is.

  • Comment 69, posted at 22.06.15 11:44:08 by Letgo Reply
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  • The grass is only greener because there is more sh!t – oh and lots more rain just to facilitate the process of having greener grass :mrgreen:

  • Comment 70, posted at 22.06.15 11:48:10 by RedSharkUtd82 Reply

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  • @pastorshark (Comment 46) :

    They are interested because of the money factor, firstly, but I think the Sharks have countered that, then they are interested because of the percieved better state of Stormers rugby, but the Sharks have always come back. We’ll do it again, with or without these boys. If they don’t want to be part of that, if they don’t want to stick it out with the Sharks (not financially, just performance wise) and build some character while doing it, then they aren’t the type of player we need anyway.

    Like I said, we’ll be back. The Sharks will rise to the top again and we’ll do it with or without them. They will be the ones that lose out. If they can’t see that, then they were lost to us right from the start.

  • Comment 71, posted at 22.06.15 12:07:37 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 71) : I agree that we’ll be back…
    I’m not sure whether you have all the facts or whether you are not making several assumptions…we’ll have to wait and see whether you have those right.
    My assumptions? Regarding Marcell, I think the points you make are the factors that were involved…and I think the end result will be that he stays. Regarding PSdT, I find it a bit strange that you only list money and state of the union as factors and not his family and the fact that the Cape is home for him. I met his family a while back and I know this is a huge factor for him. So my conclusion there is that I don’t know whether he will go. He may. I hope he doesn’t. We’ll see…
    That’s all…

  • Comment 72, posted at 22.06.15 12:17:49 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 72) :

    Would he have considered this deal if the Sharks had won SR 2015? Or were contesting in the semi final this weekend?

    Sure, he wants to be closer to his family, but those aren’t the things you base your decision on. It’s the things you use to support your decision. That’s how I feel about it anyway. Remember his younger brother is also playing for the Sharks.

  • Comment 73, posted at 22.06.15 12:35:05 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 73) :

    Point being, if PSDT didn’t think the Stormers were a better career move than the Sharks I don’t think he would not have been consideredring the move.

  • Comment 74, posted at 22.06.15 12:38:38 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 73) : Family is something I would certainly consider basing my decision on. But that’s me. And maybe its PSdT. Of course the other scenarios you sketch would have had an effect…but those scenarios are not the reality. His family is a reality and it plays a large role. I didn’t say it plays the only role…but it is certainly worth mentioning as a factor…and for many people it would be something you would base your decision on. By all means, as far as we know no final decision has not been taken and the fact that his brother is here may also play a role. So let’s just wait and see what happens…

  • Comment 75, posted at 22.06.15 13:08:29 by pastorshark Reply
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  • It may be just me but what changed from a month ago till now? The fact that there may be another coaching change. That’s all. So maybe he is just hedging his bets in case there is a spectacular disaster in the new appointment? We really need to get the matter settled soon We must get a good man and take some time but on the other hand time is quickly running out.

  • Comment 76, posted at 22.06.15 13:10:11 by coolfusion Reply

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  • No harm in him leaving we got Willie much the same way. If he does go then we will wish him well and carry on. Circle of life at a rugby union I guess may as well get used to it as times and people have changed. Nothing personal.

  • Comment 77, posted at 22.06.15 13:23:12 by coolfusion Reply

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  • I sense some tension… :twisted:

  • Comment 78, posted at 22.06.15 13:25:19 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 78) : nooooooo, really? :)

  • Comment 79, posted at 22.06.15 13:28:55 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 77) : Agreed…

  • Comment 80, posted at 22.06.15 13:37:25 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 76) : And agreed…we need to sort the coach thing out satisfactorily!

  • Comment 81, posted at 22.06.15 13:38:41 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 78) : @robdylan (Comment 79) : :mrgreen: Interesting, isn’t it?

  • Comment 82, posted at 22.06.15 13:39:32 by pastorshark Reply
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  • I’m just going to go ahead and CENSOR my own comment on behalf of the admins!

  • Comment 83, posted at 22.06.15 13:39:39 by Farlington Reply

    FarlingtonSuper Rugby player
     
  • @pastorshark (Comment 81) : Please just don’t get John Mitchell . take it from me . wont work

  • Comment 84, posted at 22.06.15 13:55:43 by Zibbie Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner
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  • @Farlington (Comment 83) : Now that’s the kind of forward thinking we need at the Sharks! :grin:

  • Comment 85, posted at 22.06.15 13:56:50 by vanmartin Reply
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  • A bit harsh I would say @Rob. His getting married end of the year and his family own the biggest farm in die Riebeek Vallei district; so it is closer to home for him. And btw; in the Corporate World; the word “loyalty” does not exist!

  • Comment 86, posted at 22.06.15 14:45:35 by Coco Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @Coco (Comment 86) : Loyalty most certainly does exist in the corporate world. It may not be the norm but it’s definitely out there.

  • Comment 87, posted at 22.06.15 14:51:05 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Coco (Comment 86) : then why say he owes the Sharks? If he’s just going to turn around and do something different.

    “I have a debt to pay to a franchise that welcomed me with open arms when I was a nobody out of school, and then have stuck by me for two years when I was mostly injured.

    “I need to honour that debt and I want to”

  • Comment 88, posted at 22.06.15 15:20:57 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • “Frankly I do not know what all the fuss is about me joining the Stormers,” du Toit said. “I have heard the rumours, but the truth is I am a Shark and, never mind anything else, I have a debt to pay to a franchise that welcomed me with open arms when I was a nobody out of school, and then have stuck by me for two years when I was mostly injured. I need to honour that debt, and I want to.”

  • Comment 89, posted at 22.06.15 15:22:08 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • Rob is there no chance that ” in negotiations” means his manager is talking to try and milk the Sharks for a bigger offer and there for bigger commission?

  • Comment 90, posted at 22.06.15 15:26:44 by Seth101 Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    NostrasethTeam captain
     
  • @Seth101 (Comment 90) : Funny I was thinking the same thing.

  • Comment 91, posted at 22.06.15 15:32:48 by Farlington Reply

    FarlingtonSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Seth101 (Comment 90) : yeah, sure, that’s possible.

  • Comment 92, posted at 22.06.15 15:50:27 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 85) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 93, posted at 22.06.15 15:58:54 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 92) : You sound doubtful.

  • Comment 94, posted at 22.06.15 15:59:50 by Seth101 Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    NostrasethTeam captain
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 87) : Agreed…

  • Comment 95, posted at 22.06.15 16:00:05 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 89) : That would be the main reason I would be disappointed if he went…

  • Comment 96, posted at 22.06.15 16:02:15 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 96) : exactly.

    We all know it’s a pro game and he must go where he wants to play. Good as he is, if Steph doesn’t want to play for the Sharks then he must go. I don’t want any player who doesn’t want to be with us.

    So why not just be a little bit honest and upfront. If he’s not able to say anything, in an interview, then don’t say anything. But come on, what he did is lying and there’s no honour in that.

  • Comment 97, posted at 22.06.15 17:06:57 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 97) : That…punkt.

  • Comment 98, posted at 22.06.15 17:11:58 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Hells bells boys he has not signed with them yet!!!!
    Hopefully it’s only to see if the Sharks offer is fair and he will sign with the Sharks again.

  • Comment 99, posted at 22.06.15 17:44:05 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 99) : I’m still hoping he stays…

  • Comment 100, posted at 22.06.15 17:51:19 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 100) : all the way until the Sharks confirms other wise!!!!!

  • Comment 101, posted at 22.06.15 18:44:15 by JD Reply
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    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 101) : Small seems to think it went well. Heard him comment late yesterday on radio.

  • Comment 102, posted at 23.06.15 05:57:58 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • Smal

  • Comment 103, posted at 23.06.15 05:58:21 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 102) : Ja well let’s see what happens but to be totally honest with all the stuff happening at the Sharks I can not blame the young man if he decides to leaving!!!!!!!!!!

  • Comment 104, posted at 23.06.15 07:29:21 by JD Reply
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    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 104) : I don’t think anyone is blaming him for considering this move. If he does go, though, it is disappointing that he so publicly had to say that he owes the Sharks loyalty and then doesn’t show that loyalty. Again…let’s wait and see what happens…

  • Comment 105, posted at 23.06.15 08:52:08 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 103) : Small Smal? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 106, posted at 23.06.15 08:52:47 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Just a question and a comment. Question: if the guys are out of contract does the players new team still have to pay a transfer fee? Comment: Money and winning def speaks louder than loyalty, but if Sharks arent putting up too much of a fight does that mean our medical staff perhaps know something they arent letting general public know?

  • Comment 107, posted at 23.06.15 08:58:58 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 107) : if it is true, then it will a huge loss to SA Rugby

  • Comment 108, posted at 23.06.15 09:26:23 by Kabouter Reply

    KabouterCurrie Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 107) : Well we do still ‘owe’ WP for Conrad Hoffmann ;-)

  • Comment 109, posted at 23.06.15 09:27:06 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 109) : didnt we get Hoffman from the Brumbies this last time? @Kabouter (Comment 108) : It would make sense…i mean surely the sharks would put up a big fight for a prize player. unless the player is unhappy or there a medical issue.

  • Comment 110, posted at 23.06.15 09:39:27 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • With the Dup bros gone..marcel, jpp , steyn and kanko half gone…is there any Bok the Sharks still have fulltime on their books? Reinach and Lambie…and i think offers will come for Lambie when he is back playing.

  • Comment 111, posted at 23.06.15 09:41:29 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 110) : Correct but when we got him from WP the first time round he hardly played for us. Was always injured.

  • Comment 112, posted at 23.06.15 09:50:18 by vanmartin Reply
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    vanmartinAssistant coach
     
  • I see Quade Cooper is struggling to get a SR gig.. #JustSaying

    http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Super15/No-room-for-Cooper-at-the-Waratahs-20150623

  • Comment 113, posted at 23.06.15 10:01:26 by RedSharkUtd82 Reply

    RedSharkUtd82Super Rugby player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 107) : nope, the concept of a transfer fee doe not apply in rugby.

    If a player is out of contract, he’s a free agent and the new team doesn’t owe the old team anything.

    The only time such a thing might come into the equation is if a player is released early from a contract to join another side – in that case, there may be a contract buy-out fee negotiated. In practice, though, that seldom happens.

  • Comment 114, posted at 23.06.15 10:04:09 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • @robdylan (Comment 114) : i thought as much. so sharks tech wouldnt get anything for PSDT as he out of contract.

  • Comment 115, posted at 23.06.15 10:07:16 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 115) : yes, but why should they? I mean, there’s just no provision for that in the way contracting works in this game.

  • Comment 116, posted at 23.06.15 10:12:06 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 116) : no im not saying the sharks should get anything. Just people saying the sharks will have money from the Dup bros and PSDT etc but as far as im aware no money is paid to the Sharks for guys out of contract. Only thing will be a reduced salary bill

  • Comment 117, posted at 23.06.15 10:19:29 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 116) : I’d say that the medical fees alone would be a reasonable basis for a payback of sorts.
    When you look at his playing record 8 super rugby games and 5 Currie Cup games in three years this guy has spent 75% of his time in very expensive rehab

  • Comment 118, posted at 23.06.15 10:54:35 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 117) : Reduced salary bill means more money in the bank. If you were paying R10 towards salaries and are now going to pay R8 you then have R2 cashflow available.

  • Comment 119, posted at 23.06.15 11:08:21 by GreatSharksays Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 119) : yes it does help…unless we arent told about increased or potential increased running costs at the Sharks which is why players are being ‘shed’ a bit to help reduced the monthly cost. There has been very little stadium maintenance in recent years which all points toward a move across the road..so they need money in the bank for that as will now have to rent

  • Comment 120, posted at 23.06.15 11:14:19 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 118) : Well at least we got some use out of him, now that upstanding Mapoe guy on the other hand…

  • Comment 121, posted at 23.06.15 11:20:28 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • Rumor mill in CT has it as pretty much a done deal. Must say notwithstanding losing a guy of his talent, would be a bitter pill considering his recent interview with Mike Greenaway and his acknowledgement of gratitude and debt to the Union for first giving him the gap and the sticking by him through all the injuries. I understand it’s a professional sport these days but my opinion of him would certainly drop were he to leave. That said, the guy has serious injury issues and it could be money better spent having someone else who can last a season.

  • Comment 122, posted at 23.06.15 11:44:05 by Vince Reply

    VinceUnder 21 player
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 121) : yup thats a real gent,but after Saturday you can see why Province need this guy,Ethebeth has as much abilty in calling a lineout as Matt Stevens has of sticking to a weight watchers diet.

  • Comment 123, posted at 23.06.15 11:48:15 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • It would be great if the kid stayed, but I think that sentiment is driven by what he is capable of, as opposed to what he has consistently done, given injuries and the call-ups.

    These kind of marque players are really useful for 2 reasons; marketing and big game temperament. The Willie le Roux signing ticks these boxes, with less concerns over injuries. SO even if this does go the Stormers’ way, I am not convinced that its a train smash for the Sharks.

    To be honest, my sentiment lately is that we havent got a good return on our high impact forwards due to their being injury-prone. The likes of Alberts, Deysel, PSDT, Steyn, etc are hard to justify when looked at in the cold hard light of day.

  • Comment 124, posted at 23.06.15 11:51:39 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 124) : Interesting point…so do you see the Sharks signing a different type of player in the future as opposed to the big bash it up type of forwards etc. Interesting how NZ and OZ teams have found favour in playing fairly large wingers and smaller guys inside them to create space for them.

  • Comment 125, posted at 23.06.15 11:55:22 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 123) : Speaking of which, I wonder if Marco Wentzel wont be an outside bet for the Boks this year.

  • Comment 126, posted at 23.06.15 11:56:46 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 124) : Cant argue with that.

  • Comment 127, posted at 23.06.15 11:59:07 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 126) : Can’t see that happening.
    My bet is Matfield,Captain,Ethebeth,PSDT,Flippie,.
    He will go with this,Matfield and PSDT,won’t last past the pool stages,and we will end up with Alberts covering lock for the later stages.

  • Comment 128, posted at 23.06.15 12:15:24 by The hound Reply
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  • Ok Im going to go out a a limb here and predict that PSdT will stay with the Sharks even if it is only on a contract extension of 12 months. I base this purely on what he had to say in the Greenaway interview as again mentioned here @robdylan (Comment 88) : and here @robdylan (Comment 89) :. Im convinced that (if quoted correctly) no one, but no one, would backtrack on such strong and principled views expressed on an open forum.

  • Comment 129, posted at 23.06.15 12:16:36 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 128) : Yeah I know but Wentzel has been the standout lineout caller, jumper in the competition so far. He was a damn good buy.

  • Comment 130, posted at 23.06.15 12:18:23 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 130) : Funny that is one of the really outstanding parts of PSDT ‘s game,he is a lineout master in the making

  • Comment 131, posted at 23.06.15 12:23:24 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 125) :
    I think thats the direction rugby is moving in – creating mis-matches in defensive alignments is critical. Guys like Marcel and Carr seem to make metres at will because they dont just line up and run at other big guys. And they offer far more in other areas as well.

    And I am fully on the big, quick winger bandwagon – you need guys out wide who can make every inch count; just look at any of the NZ teams. Its also why I would only every play JP at wing (or maybe fullback).

  • Comment 132, posted at 23.06.15 13:48:03 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 129) : is it worthwhile doing that, if you’re the Sharks?

  • Comment 133, posted at 23.06.15 14:22:49 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • @robdylan (Comment 133) : hellova gamble considering no CC and high likelihood of injury in RWC or the Super Rugby.

    should only be considered if a long term deal is agreed, irrespective of his class and talent. The powers that be surely will look at it with objectivity

    great player but not worth a 1 year contract when a new team and dynasty is being built (hopefully ;-) )

  • Comment 134, posted at 23.06.15 14:34:27 by Kabouter Reply

    KabouterCurrie Cup player
     
  • Sport24 claiming Jake is trying to lure Burden to Montpellier

    surely he wont go back in the queue behind Bissie again?

    with the “savings” any chance they can lure him back to DBN? if he has any Bok aspirations, he surely will have to play as first choice and locally?

  • Comment 135, posted at 23.06.15 14:36:04 by Kabouter Reply

    KabouterCurrie Cup player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 133) : No, probably not, unless it ended in a massive injury free contribution to winning the Super Trophy or whatever it will be called.

  • Comment 136, posted at 23.06.15 14:38:46 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 110) : I understand the Sharks have put a big offer on the table for PSdT…so it hardly qualifies as not putting up a fight…but, then again, I’m still waiting for more info and/or waiting to see what happens… :lol:

  • Comment 137, posted at 23.06.15 14:40:01 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 117) : The way I read all the previous comments is that people were talking about a massively reduced salary bill with all these big names gone…and that obviously frees up money and/or allows to make substantial salary offers to new players…or something like that…

  • Comment 138, posted at 23.06.15 14:44:02 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 129) : I’ve given this quite a bit of thought. Playing devil’s advocate there might be a chance he leaves despite what he said. The guy is 22 years old and probably hasn’t learnt the finer arts of not running your mouth to journos. We forget how much growing up these guys still have to do. What if he said something in the heat of the moment which he did not properly think through? Question is, if he does leave, do we as Sharks supports act our age in the comments or his? ;-)

    EDIT: And by that I don’t mean that the decision is above reproach but I bet things could turn very personal and very nasty, very quickly should he decide to leave.

  • Comment 139, posted at 23.06.15 14:44:21 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Vince (Comment 122) : Like I’ve said repeatedly, that would be the most disappointing thing for me…why say those things in the interview, only to leave…

  • Comment 140, posted at 23.06.15 14:46:57 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 124) : My greater concern remains what Marcell will do…please stay?

  • Comment 141, posted at 23.06.15 14:50:05 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 138) : hopefully Craig Burden being one :shock: / :hope

  • Comment 142, posted at 23.06.15 14:52:03 by Kabouter Reply

    KabouterCurrie Cup player
     
  • @The hound (Comment 128) : Yup…can’t see the Wentzel thing happening…

  • Comment 143, posted at 23.06.15 14:52:23 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 129) : That is the reason I am waiting for final confirmation before I believe it…and why I will be extremely disappointed if he does go…

  • Comment 144, posted at 23.06.15 14:54:35 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Kabouter (Comment 134) : Agreed…

  • Comment 145, posted at 23.06.15 14:59:12 by pastorshark Reply
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  • JOHANNESBURG. – Dit wil al hoe meer voorkom asof die Haaie se greep op twee van hul voorste jong Springbokke besig is om te verslap.

    Die gerugte van die afgelope ruk dat die flank Marcell Coetzee en die slot Pieter-Steph du Toit groener weivelde soek, raak al hoe sterker met die nuus uit die Stormers-kamp dat hulle besig is om met Du Toit te onderhandel.

    Dié eertydse Swartlander wil glo “huis toe” gaan en nader aan sy familie gaan woon.

    Coetzee het intussen ’n korttermyn-kontrak met die Japanse klub Honda Heat gesluit en sal van November tot Januarie vir hulle speel.

    Hy sal wel na Suid-Afrika terugkeer vir die Super-reeks, maar dit is nog nie seker of hy weer in die Haaie se trui gesien sal word nie.

    Sy kontrak met die Haaie verval aan die einde van die jaar en hy het verlede week in ’n gesprek aangedui hy is self nog onseker wat sy toekoms inhou.

    Dit is geen geheim dat die Stormers ook in hom belangstel nie.

    Met dié dat Duane Vermeulen en Michael Rhodes oorsee gaan speel, is die Stormers baie ervaring onder hul losvoorspelers kwyt.

    Allister Coetzee, wat pas sy termyn as afrigter van die Stormers voltooi het, het ook gesê dié span makeer ’n gehalte-baljagterflank. Coetzee kan dié leemte vul.

    Du Toit, wat weens ’n aantal ernstige kniebeserings in die afgelope twee en ’n half jaar net in agt Super-wedstryde en vyf keer in die Curriebeker vir die Durbaniete gespeel het, is volgens die Stormers se direkteur van rugby, Gert Smal, in onderhandelings om sy rugby voortaan in die Kaap te gaan speel.

    Een van sy Haaie-spanmaats het verlede week gesê Du Toit wil graag nader aan sy familie wees en dat die skuif terug na Kaapstad vir hom aanloklik is.

    Met die oog op die toekoms sal dit ’n gevoelige terugslag vir die Haaie wees om dié twee spelers te verloor, want hulle is juis gesien as van die hoekstene waarop die Haaie se herlewing gebou sou word.

  • Comment 146, posted at 23.06.15 15:00:13 by grant10 Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • @Kabouter (Comment 135) : I would not be against that…

  • Comment 147, posted at 23.06.15 15:00:17 by pastorshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Administrator
    pastorsharkCoach
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 139) : I try to stay clear of the nasty… :mrgreen: …but I would be disappointed… :sad:

  • Comment 148, posted at 23.06.15 15:02:13 by pastorshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Administrator
    pastorsharkCoach
     
  • @pastorshark (Comment 137) : Funny u dont hear any mention of that big offer [email protected]pastorshark (Comment 138) : The reduced salary bill is a fair point- i just have a feeling that they need a reduced salary bil for other things.

  • Comment 149, posted at 23.06.15 15:06:12 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @grant10 (Comment 146) : As you were…no more information than we already knew…just a slightly more negative interpretation from a Sharks point of view…

  • Comment 150, posted at 23.06.15 15:06:36 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 132) : For me one of the biggest negatives for SA teams is that we cant pass the ball. Its a fundamental part of the game yet the majority of our players cannot pass the ball accurately over 5m left and right. That is scary.

  • Comment 151, posted at 23.06.15 15:07:56 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 149) : The big offer on the table from the Sharks was in a report or two at the start of all this…

  • Comment 152, posted at 23.06.15 15:08:01 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 148) : Apparently Sharks agreed to PSDT request to negotiate a deal with WP…..Perhaps with the intention to meet or beat the WP deal? I believe the family situation may be decisive.
    Marcell Coetsee is a rare commodity in SA, a quality opensider with a great engine . I would have targetted Brussow personally if I was in Smals shoes…..The lack of an opensider has been a glaring deficiency in the Stormers set up for 2 years now…..
    Stormers will be searching for a quality 10 and perhaps a wing with size….they are also rare in SA….we may even have to look overseas to find someone . The top Kiwi and Aussie sides have monsters out wide…

  • Comment 153, posted at 23.06.15 15:13:03 by grant10 Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • @pastorshark (Comment 150) : Die Burger is a reliable source of information here in CT….closest to the WP camp….so yes, not the best of news…..But as we all know, no done deal till the ink is dry…..and I have seen the WP butcher so many deals in the pro era….too many to mention!

  • Comment 154, posted at 23.06.15 15:17:40 by grant10 Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • @pastorshark (Comment 152) : my apologies then…just cant remember seeing reference to it in the articles about him in talks with WP

  • Comment 155, posted at 23.06.15 15:17:58 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • Yikes, now Pollard off for A Jap stint.

  • Comment 156, posted at 23.06.15 16:46:29 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @grant10 (Comment 146) : Buchies does it again. Reads two of my articles and mashes them together into one of his,

  • Comment 157, posted at 23.06.15 16:51:30 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 157) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 158, posted at 23.06.15 17:05:32 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Kabouter (Comment 135) : And that would be his best way into the national squad he should really consider coming back.

  • Comment 159, posted at 23.06.15 17:08:19 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 159) : Yes please…

  • Comment 160, posted at 23.06.15 17:16:09 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 156) : http://www.rugby365.com/article/67050-pollard-follows-to-japan

  • Comment 161, posted at 23.06.15 17:23:20 by pastorshark Reply
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  • And Umaga the new Blues head coach?! O…K…
    http://www.rugby365.com/article/67039-umaga-takes-charge-of-blues

  • Comment 162, posted at 23.06.15 17:25:36 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Plus Jake’s shopping spree continues…
    http://www.rugby365.com/article/67052-kings-lose-bok-prop

  • Comment 163, posted at 23.06.15 17:27:27 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 75) : @grant10 (Comment 153) : He wants to be closer to home? Home is where the heart is and if his heart isn’t with the Sharks then I’d rather have him leave now. :(

  • Comment 164, posted at 24.06.15 02:37:39 by Ben Reply
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  • well played Steph! That Mike Greenaway interview was a masterstroke. It probably doubled the Province offer. You will do well in the business world after rugby.

  • Comment 165, posted at 24.06.15 09:33:54 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 165) : :lol:

  • Comment 166, posted at 24.06.15 10:04:35 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 164) : To be fair, though, I totally get how it is possible for someone to really have enjoyed the rugby and the time in Natal with all their heart…and still long back to the place that has been home all your life. Kind of like I looooved my time in Stellenbosch at Varsity and in Joburg as a working man…and was still drawn back home to the Midlands at some stage…

  • Comment 167, posted at 24.06.15 12:31:12 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 166) : Ja look…

  • Comment 168, posted at 24.06.15 12:31:34 by pastorshark Reply
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