Richard Ferguson

Pietersen injured, Mapoe gets bench time


Written by Richard Ferguson (Richard Ferguson)

Posted in :All Blacks, Original Content, Springboks on 23 Jul 2015 at 07:16
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On the same day as the team was announced, Heyneke Meyer was forced into making changes after JP Pietersen injured himself in training. Pietersen strained a hamstring and the seriousness of his injury is unknown at this stage.

Cornal Hendricks goes from not being in the match 23 to starting a week later while Lionel Mapoe is set to make his debut off the bench.

Personally, I don’t mind this move so much. It will be good to see again what Hendricks can offer before the World Cup. It’s a shame that it took an injury to bring him and Mapoe into the squad, but both players will have to make the most of the situation.

Mapoe on the bench offers a few more options later in the game, suddenly being able to move Kriel to fullback later in the match with Mapoe coming into the centres, is something that would not have been possible with Hendricks on the bench. This would be ideal if Willie le Roux has another mare of a first 40 minutes.

South Africa: 15 Willie le Roux, 14 Cornal Hendricks, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Ruan Pienaar, 8 Schalk Burger (captain), 7 Francois Louw, 6 Heinrich Brussow, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Tendai Mtawarira

Substitutes: 16 Adriaan Strauss, 17 Trevor Nyakane, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Flip van der Merwe, 20 Warren Whiteley, 21 Cobus Reinach, 22 Pat Lambie, 23 Lionel Mapoe



66 Comments

  • Lwazi Mvovo?

  • Comment 1, posted at 23.07.15 07:31:57 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 1) :

    Well, he is not there.. But is that the right call?

    Here is my opinion, it might not be well liked, but anyway:

    I think Meyer got it wrong to include Mvovo in the match last week. Is there really a need for a wing on the bench, when you have three wings on the field? Willie is equally explosive on the wing, thus I say three wings.

    If you already have back up for that position, why not rather have a centre on the bench. It would have been great to have Mapoe there last week, should the Kriel experiment have backfired. It didn’t and we got lucky, but what if it did? Then suddenly De Allende would have gone to 13 and one of Pollard or Lambie would have been at 12. Not ideal if you can have an out and out centre on the bench.

    I feel for Lwazi, but I think this is the right call, and it should have been done last week already.

  • Comment 2, posted at 23.07.15 07:39:03 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • Think about it this way:

    Had Mvovo not been included last week, and now Mapoe gets rewarded for a brilliant season, we would have given kudos to Meyer for finally seeing Mapoe and giving him a shot etc etc..

    But now he selected Mvovo and we all get confused as to why he can drop him from the team (twice really, since he could have included him with the injury to JPP) for no good reason..

  • Comment 3, posted at 23.07.15 07:42:25 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • “Mapoe on the bench offers a few more options later in the game, suddenly being able to move Kriel to fullback later in the match with Mapoe coming into the centres, is something that would not have been possible with Hendricks on the bench. This would be ideal if Willie le Roux has another mare of a first 40 minutes.”

    It would still be possible if Hendricks was on the bench. I read that Heyneke sees JPP as an option at 13. So if JPP wasn’t injured and Hendricks was on the bench, JPP could shift to 13, Jesse could switch to fullback and either Willie or Hendricks could play wing.

  • Comment 4, posted at 23.07.15 07:46:01 by Ben Reply
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  • ja well yes. Let’s see what they can do! Still a good team.

  • Comment 5, posted at 23.07.15 07:46:19 by JD Reply
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  • Unbelievable slap in the face to Mvovo. I don’t disagree with Mapoe being there, but to drop Mvovo after 5 minutes is crazy.

  • Comment 6, posted at 23.07.15 07:47:04 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 4) : By no means am I trying to say that I agree with Heyneke about JPP at 13, but that’s the way he sees it.

  • Comment 7, posted at 23.07.15 07:48:41 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 4) :

    Yes, you are 100% right. Never thought about it like that..

  • Comment 8, posted at 23.07.15 07:49:24 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • i read somewhere that Mapoe would have played center if he was not injured at the start of the camp . Then jesse kriel grabbed the opportunity . Now that JPP is injured they are just adding another center to the team .

    Meyers words so i wont read to much into that . For me im happy with Mapoe at least being given a shot . Hard luck for JPP and Mvovo

  • Comment 9, posted at 23.07.15 07:49:52 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 7) :

    I hear you.

    Personally, I don’t think JPP should even be in the squad as a wing, nevermind try and act as a centre.

  • Comment 10, posted at 23.07.15 07:50:36 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 9) : Congrats, finally. :cool:

  • Comment 11, posted at 23.07.15 07:51:51 by Ben Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 10) : You and me both.

  • Comment 12, posted at 23.07.15 07:52:35 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 11) : HM wont rest until all Lions players have 1 test cap and nothing more :P

  • Comment 13, posted at 23.07.15 07:54:00 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 10) : @Ben (Comment 12) : It’s Heyneke logic – If you’re big enough, you’re good enough. :roll:

  • Comment 14, posted at 23.07.15 07:54:15 by Ben Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 13) :

    It blocks them from going to Scotland or Ireland and facing the Boks at the next World Cup.

    Just a shame he was too late with Rory Kockott..

  • Comment 15, posted at 23.07.15 07:55:52 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 13) : Don’t get too excited just yet, Lionel hasn’t made it onto the field yet. ;)

  • Comment 16, posted at 23.07.15 07:55:59 by Ben Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 15) : master stroke really !

    @Ben (Comment 16) : im sure he will get his 2 minutes haha

  • Comment 17, posted at 23.07.15 07:57:17 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 10) : I can’t disagree with that statement.

  • Comment 18, posted at 23.07.15 07:57:29 by vanmartin Reply
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  • I know this is way off topic. However I think I have seen Mike Rhodes in Mill Hill Broadway NW London is this possible?

  • Comment 19, posted at 23.07.15 07:57:33 by durbsguy Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 13) : @Ben (Comment 16) : I’d be very surprised if Lionel gets more than 10 minutes on the field, unless it’s for an injury of course.

  • Comment 20, posted at 23.07.15 07:57:35 by Ben Reply
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  • Would have made more sense to have mvovo and mapoe there mvovo a way better defense and attack weapon than Hendricks. Speedwise there is no comparison Mvovo hands down. This is just another HM trait. He learns slow he trusts what he knows even if it doesn’t work. Surprised he hasn’t called bakkies back but mark my words once Duane is healthy no other nr 8 will get a chance again either. HM has zero strategic thinking abilities so we all may as well resign ourselves to the fact that nothing will ever change as long as he is there sure they might vary a tiny bit but will always come back to the same team and strategy in the end. Once Jaques Fourie is fit he will probably be permanent in the mix too. We have not evolved at all in 2 years. Steyn also making his way back. 1st channel and crashball rugby all the way till we lose the RWC.

  • Comment 21, posted at 23.07.15 07:58:12 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 17) : Ja he will get 2 minutes and then dropped out the squad. Or for a blue bull lock that wants to play out of position ask Warren.

  • Comment 22, posted at 23.07.15 07:59:24 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @durbsguy (Comment 19) :

    Its not impossible – he got married over the weekend so may very well be there on honeymoon?

  • Comment 23, posted at 23.07.15 08:03:05 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 21) :

    Let me just get this straight – Do you not think Duane Vermeulen is the best No 8 in South Africa?

  • Comment 24, posted at 23.07.15 08:05:13 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 20) : yea . that is my realistic expectation .

  • Comment 25, posted at 23.07.15 08:12:39 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 15) : Excited to sing Flower of Scotland with Josh Strauss once the match against the boks comes around

  • Comment 26, posted at 23.07.15 08:14:31 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 26) :

    What a loss to South African rugby that oke is.. Pity the Lions couldn’t hold onto him..

  • Comment 27, posted at 23.07.15 08:16:12 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 27) : dont think he would have ever made the SA ranks . Was fun having him in the Lions team . But we got Warren in his place so not much complaints .

  • Comment 28, posted at 23.07.15 08:18:09 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @durbsguy (Comment 19) : Yes. He signed for Saracens.

  • Comment 29, posted at 23.07.15 08:19:27 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 29) :

    Oh did he?!

    That’s a good move for him.. Happy for the guy..

  • Comment 30, posted at 23.07.15 08:20:39 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • In ters of the Mvovo being dropped and Mapoe playing i think Meyer is admitting that he got his bench selection wrong last week- either that or Mapoe wasnt fully fit so Mvovo only option. In terms of team selection i believe that the starting XV should be the best guys in their positions. However, on the bench barring the front row and lock the remainder of the players need to be versatile and able to play a number of positions in order for them to add value from the bench. Thus having Hendricks on the bench doesnt add value as only a wing, same as Mvovo- Sharks need to have played him at 15 more. But you get the point…

  • Comment 31, posted at 23.07.15 08:22:09 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 30) : Yeh just got married last week as well. He is good mates with Hargreaves.

  • Comment 32, posted at 23.07.15 08:23:56 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 3) :

    I get what you’re saying, this still doesn’t explain the treatment of Mvovo. If you weren’t going to back him for more than 13 minutes, why select him at all?

    If Mapoe replaced Mvovo on the bench in the first place, I would have been happy, because I also thought we are a little thin in midfield cover and that Mapoe deserved a shot, but Hendricks replacing Mvovo makes no sense. Unless… was Hendricks injured and Mvovo was just an injury replacement?

    I’m just saying, think Mvovo could have been treated a little better. I’m not even looking at the technical side of it.

  • Comment 33, posted at 23.07.15 08:29:57 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 24) :

    I would be happy to see Duane moved to the blindside with a more mobile loosie replacing him at 8. Especially considering that Willem is always injured.

    I wouldn’t mind

    Warren/ Schalk
    Duane/ Willem/ Marcell
    Flouw/ Brussouw/ Marcell

  • Comment 34, posted at 23.07.15 08:31:05 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 34) :

    Why would you do that?

    Two years ago Kieran Read was the best No8 in the world – you didn’t see the All Blacks suddenly shift him to the flank to make way for another player???

    Duane is a very good No8, the best we have in SA and one of the best in World, why not keep him in that position?

  • Comment 35, posted at 23.07.15 08:33:21 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 34) :

    You could easily switch these guys around to make good combo’s and I don’t think Duane should be considered the only option at 8. Though I would definitely have him on the field if he is fit to play.

  • Comment 36, posted at 23.07.15 08:34:22 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 34) :

    I am sure the entire Sharksworld site would melt into nothing the day Duane Vermeulen replaces Marcell Coetzee at flank, meaning he doesn’t play!

    Why mess around the great flanks we have in Marcell, Flouw and Schalk, by adding Duane into that mix??

  • Comment 37, posted at 23.07.15 08:36:30 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 35) : I think Read is way more mobile, he has an offload that Duan could only ever wish to achieve.

  • Comment 38, posted at 23.07.15 08:38:02 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 38) :

    Yes he is, but it doesn’t make him a flank?

  • Comment 39, posted at 23.07.15 08:40:13 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 35) :

    I don’t think he is necessarily the best 8, because of his function as an 8. I’ve always felt that he functions more as a brilliant 7 (ball carrier, rather than the linking role of an 8) and since he plays 8, he was awarded best 8. If that makes any sense at all.

    I think if he plays 7 he will still be the best in his position and it opens up options for the Boks.

    I’m not saying definitely do it. I’m just saying, if we do lose our first choice blindside options, that Duane should be considered an option, with Warren Whitely or Schalk moving to the back of the scrum (though Schalk would possibly then just be selected at 7, as he is when he plays with Duane at the Stormers). So basically only if you feel Warren would add something to the team, because I would never select Warren in any other position than 8.

  • Comment 40, posted at 23.07.15 08:40:41 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 39) : I’m not saying I would play Duan at flank, or drop him. But we do lose a dimension with him at 8. Luckily what he lacks in mobility he makes up for in size and strength of the ground, which is the case when comparing a lot of SA players to NZ. Only problem is they have proven that mobility trumps size.

  • Comment 41, posted at 23.07.15 08:44:55 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 39) :

    I’m saying if Marcell should be injured for some reason. I’d rather have Warren Whitely on the bench covering the loosies than Mahoje. So in this instance Duane would be shifted to the blindside, while Warren takes over at the back of the scrum.

    Would you agree that Duane is definitely an option at 7? So we don’t have to select a mediocre 7 while we have Duane and other better options to cover 8?

  • Comment 42, posted at 23.07.15 08:45:47 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 42) :

    The same applies to selecting cover for Marcell. If you have Marcell playing with Duane and Schalk for example. The guy on the bench don’t have to be a 7 to replace Schalk. You can have Brussouw on the bench and bring him on in place of Schalk, with Marcell shifting to 7.

    Or if feel the game might open up towards the end and you want a more mobile 8 you can have Warren on the field, have him replace Schalk with Duane moving to 7.

    When you have a guy that can play two positions, I just don’t think you should close of your options.

    I completely agree that Duane is our best 8, but if SA’s loose trio combo could be better if he’s at 7, then certainly that option should be considered?

  • Comment 43, posted at 23.07.15 08:54:16 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 42) :

    Anything can happen in a match situation, I agree, but I simply would not start Duane in any position other than No8.

  • Comment 44, posted at 23.07.15 08:54:53 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 37) :

    Right now it would be stupid not to play Marcell when fit. He’s been by far our best loosie in the last 2 outings for the Boks.

    Flouw has been really quite, Warren was also really quite against the World XV, Mahajo should probably never been there (especially after a long injury lay-off) and although I’ve really enjoyed seeing Schalk back in a Bok jersey playing some fine rugby, Marcell has been head and shoulders above the rest.

    I think we’ll notice his absence this weekend, although I must say, I hope Brussouw has a blinder.

  • Comment 45, posted at 23.07.15 08:58:53 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 44) :

    That’s fair, especially considering the long list of options SA have at 7, even Flouw can be shifted to the blindside. When all is healthy and in form this is what we have:

    Marcell, Willem, Schalk, Flouw, Kolisi, A Botha, Mahoje, Carr.

    All these guys have played at 7 for HM btw. Not to mention many of the other quality loosies that we have in SA that could easily step in.

  • Comment 46, posted at 23.07.15 09:04:53 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 24) : I think he is. I also think that he needs an understudy who gets enough game time to adequately step into the role should he Ned rotation or replacement I. E. Whiteley. the problem is that Meyer is too simple minded to build this kind of succession once Duane is back he will play him every game without reprieve yhen complain he doesn’t have a backup. Which is because he never builds the backup. Schalk is backup for flank or maybe even starting flank in some cases. The real nr 8 is being wasted.

  • Comment 47, posted at 23.07.15 11:18:26 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @Letgo (Comment 40) : I really like your idea. :cool:

  • Comment 48, posted at 23.07.15 11:21:28 by Ben Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 21) : Would love to hear your logic on this one.
    Mvovo 10 test caps 3 tries = 15 points (1 vs Eng, and 2 vs Scotland)

    Hendricks 11 test caps 5 tries = 25 points (1 vs Arg, 1 vs Aus, 1 vs NZ, and 2 vs Wales)

    So based on what is Mvovo a better wing option than Hendricks? The quality of the opposition and the number of tries belies your opinion.

  • Comment 49, posted at 23.07.15 17:18:41 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 44) : Don’t worry with Phillip vd Walt soon to be in Sharks ranks, they will soon be clamouring to have him at *instead of Duanne. That said, I miss vd Walt, he is a fine player. Boom is busy, but vd Walt is a skilled player, and hard as nails.

  • Comment 50, posted at 23.07.15 17:25:15 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 49) : I tend to agree that Hendricks is a better attacking option than Mvovo, but Hendricks can’t tackle.

  • Comment 51, posted at 23.07.15 18:01:34 by Ben Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 49) : Based on getting less airtime you are relegating mvovo to being a less dangerous wing? Yup sounds fair.

  • Comment 52, posted at 23.07.15 18:14:25 by coolfusion Reply

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  • Give them all equall game time with the same teams and combos first

  • Comment 53, posted at 23.07.15 18:15:51 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @Ben (Comment 51) : There is merit in that. Willie has kind of learnt to ankle tap effectively, maybe Hendricks can learn too. :grin: @coolfusion (Comment 52) : Less airtime? He has played one test less, and scored 2 tries less. Seems that Hendricks has a better strike rate at this point in time. Mvovo has potential, but his hands let him down sometimes.
    Hendricks certainly knows how to finish a try!!

  • Comment 54, posted at 23.07.15 18:17:35 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 53) : That was comparison on test caps only. So that pretty much evens up the playing field doesn’t it?
    Or would you want to analyse this down to the the minutest detail. We can do that.

  • Comment 55, posted at 23.07.15 18:19:28 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • How about you argue based on my comment which was around mvovo skillset and what he beings to the game and not the stats. You recall my comment about him being a better attacking option since he has the speed advantage a better defense option since he is a better defender and versatility since he is a very adequate fullback. Scroll back and read..

  • Comment 56, posted at 23.07.15 18:24:09 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 56) : Lol, stats don’t back your opinion. Give me stats to show that Mvovo is out and out faster. Besides, being marginally faster doesn’t make you a better attacking option. Hendricks has shown his ability to finish and score tries. You claim he is a better attacker, because he is faster??
    We don’t need cover at FB, and Mvovo certainly wasn’t considered as an FB option. Willie and Lambie covers that.
    as for defence, well it can be argued that Mvovo is a better defender, then again perceptions need to be backed up with stats.
    You can teach a player to tackle, but hard to coach instinctive finishing ability, and Hendricks has that!

  • Comment 57, posted at 23.07.15 18:49:31 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 57) : not to rain on your parade but let’s see how Hendricks do in season 2-3-4. Yes he’s good but Mvovo proved he has what it takes. Anyway both are good wings and I’m glad they’re playing instead of some other bulls options!!!!!!

  • Comment 58, posted at 23.07.15 20:04:18 by JD Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 50) :

    Yeah look, we are all guilty of a little bit of Province-bias, but I like to think that if you want your opinion to be taken seriously, you cannot have any tinted glasses on.

    Similarly, if you are the author of articles, you should really not have any bias towards a certain group of players..

  • Comment 59, posted at 24.07.15 07:25:01 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 58) : Agreed Bud, How you doing?

  • Comment 60, posted at 24.07.15 09:17:45 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 49) : counting caps is interesting, but also count minutes on the field, please.

    Mvovo has a fair few “4-minute caps” like he got last week, which makes it harder to score tries. Cornall (if memory serves) has had far more starts

  • Comment 61, posted at 24.07.15 09:34:52 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 61) : so to answer my own question. Hendricks has started 11 tests, Mvovo has started 8. Not sure of the exact game time, but you need to adjust your “formula” a little to take that fact into account.

  • Comment 62, posted at 24.07.15 09:36:26 by robdylan Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 50) : And in a ironic twist Sharksworld seems to have turned on Willie since he’s signed with us :grin:

  • Comment 63, posted at 24.07.15 09:39:48 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 63) : The new Sharksworld motto is “kill yr. idols”…

  • Comment 64, posted at 24.07.15 09:58:40 by Culling Song Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 61) : The Hendricks/Mvovo debate boils down to who can start of which either would do a good job i believe with Mvovo’s tackling better and Hendricks finishing possibly slightly better. However, neither can be an effective bench option as only cover wing- both need to be able to at least cover 13/15 as well.

  • Comment 65, posted at 24.07.15 10:22:56 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 61) : Hmmm yes you do make a valid point. It’s also particularly apparent with Lambie’s caps.

  • Comment 66, posted at 24.07.15 10:36:56 by KingCheetah Reply

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