robdylan

Province take (all) the points


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Currie Cup, Original Content, Sharks, WP on 13 Sep 2015 at 17:12
Tagged with : , , ,

The Sharks have put their fans through another tame home ground capitulation, allowing Western Province to leave Kings Park with five Currie Cup log points in an embarrassing 27-37 defeat.

In front of a small crowd that contained a huge number of stalwart players from the golden years, this year’s bunch proved again just what pretenders they are to the lofty throne of Sharks team gone by. A hard-earned 17-10 half-time advantage (thanks to four penalties from the boot of flyhalf Joe Pietersen and an unconverted try to Andre Esterhuizen) lasted just minutes in a second half that the Sharks barely seemed interested in at all.

Three tries to the visitors ensued, seeing them become the third team in four attempts to claim a four-try bonus point at “fortress” Kings Park this Currie Cup season. With the Sharks content to hoof every bit of hard-won possession down the throats of the Province back three (and then neglect to tackle as those men ran back at them), it took just 13 minutes of the second period for a 7-point lead to turn into a 14-point deficit, one from which the home side could not recover, despite Odwa Ndungane’s 60th minutes score.

With Province having extended their lead to 10 via a Demetri Catrakilis penalty shortly before the end, it fell to Pietersen to salvage a bonus point for his side with a last-gasp kick. Needless to say, he missed.

Sharks: Tries: Esterhuizen, Ndungane; Conversions: Pietersen; Penalties: Pietersen 5.
Western Province: Tries: Senatla, Elstadt, Leyds, Mbonambi; Conversions: Du Preez (4); Penalties: Du Preez (2), Catrakilis.



185 Comments

  • No comment
    They should play without the jersey :/

  • Comment 1, posted at 13.09.15 17:16:03 by capesharks Reply
    capesharksUnder 19 player
     
  • If there ever was an all time low in sharks history – this weekend will top that.

  • Comment 2, posted at 13.09.15 17:47:43 by DeanOwens Reply
    Under 21 player
     
  • Yup, they should play in the cheapest looking Mr Price t-shirts available. Nobody is afraid of these guys anymore. Pumas and Griquas can justifiably target a win against the Sharks. And what does home ground advantage even mean with these guys? Nothing I tell you.

  • Comment 3, posted at 13.09.15 17:48:18 by SeanJeff Reply
    SeanJeffSuper Rugby player
     
  • My lips are sealed! :sad:
    Where do we go from here?

  • Comment 4, posted at 13.09.15 18:05:24 by R Hayward Reply
    Super Rugby player
     
  • Do the right thing Smit and take your chum Gold with you. you are a disgrace. Your entire tenure has been an embarrassment. You have taken the sharks away from us. Leave now please! Have some fucking pride man!

  • Comment 5, posted at 13.09.15 18:06:59 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    West Indies Cricket BoardTeam captain
     
  • Just how much worse can it get? Plum must have felt a little justified!

  • Comment 6, posted at 13.09.15 18:08:16 by Sharkfinn Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • Since I missed the game and set the PVR, I assume I shouldn’t bother watching the game then… What a sad state of affaurs Sharks rugby has become. Loads of us have been defending the new coach and team this year and trying to find positives, but I think the time has come that some serious action must be taken. Performance must be matched by reward and lack of reward similarly.

  • Comment 7, posted at 13.09.15 18:20:03 by T-Shark Reply

    T-SharkUnder 21 player
     
  • Haven’t bothered to watch the last two games….won’t bother watching the rest of the season either.

    Soon our sponsors will realise that the money forked our for Sharks real estate is a waste of advertising revenue….then the board will realise Smit is a waste of a CEO wage.

    …then we enter the rebuilding phase….AGAIN.

  • Comment 8, posted at 13.09.15 18:33:38 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 5) : Seconded!

  • Comment 9, posted at 13.09.15 18:41:26 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • Kan iemand Komentaar lewer oor die o/19 shark span wat die fout is hulle kry net nie n wen nie is daar dan nie talent nie al daai ouens het dan provincial rugby gespeel 2014 hulle kan dan nie sleg wees nie

  • Comment 10, posted at 13.09.15 19:59:08 by Willem B Reply

    Under 19 player
     
  • What do we do though? Supporters are already voting with their feet at King’s Park. Does it contribute in any way to stop watching on TV or are there better ways to make our concerns heard?

  • Comment 11, posted at 13.09.15 20:18:15 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    vanmartinAssistant coach
     
  • With almost half a dozen coaches in just over 2 years, I think firing another coach is not the solution. Neither is firing John Smit. Clearly the guy is a rookie, who should not have been appointed CEO, but if blame is to be assigned one should look at the person/s responsible for appointing him as a publicity stunt at the same moment as getting rid of all the experienced support he would self evidently be in need of.

    I don’t know much about the BOD, but I guess the most culpable person’s name is a four letter word starting with an S.

  • Comment 12, posted at 13.09.15 21:02:59 by fyndraai Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    fyndraaiTeam captain
     
  • Weet iemand hoe goed die o/19 shark span is en kan hulle eenigsins nog die sysoen nog n wedstyd wen ek dink ons het n general nodig wat meer opsies kan sien en meer geleentyd vir sy agter lyn sal be werk ste light en slum taktiese skoppe kan skop so elke speeler kan n paar norm wat ek al gesien speel het bv die 9,6,13,15,8 daar is n bases,die vast 5 doen baie goed en no 14 goed om hom met die bal in hand te sien die span kan net nie Verdedig …dankie

  • Comment 13, posted at 13.09.15 22:31:58 by Willem B Reply

    Under 19 player
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 8) :

    I’m just so deflated! John Smit and all his cronies must take a hike. The Sharks cannot be that bad!

  • Comment 14, posted at 13.09.15 23:24:12 by Den Reply

    DenCurrie Cup player
     
  • @fyndraai, comment 12. We are on the same page, big time.

  • Comment 15, posted at 13.09.15 23:40:47 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • I disagree. The possible effects of sacking Gold:

    The good: we win more, maybe even challenge for trophies.

    The bad: it cannot get any worse.

    No brainer.

    GOLD OUT!

  • Comment 16, posted at 14.09.15 00:33:55 by Orlok Tsubodai Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • I agree that gold seems to have no whatsoever. Could we afford another golden handshake though?

    Honestly people trying to get rid of smit, what would that help? Out board has lined up some great sponsorships, got the union going financially once again. That’s their job and they are doing it well. The coach and the players on the other hand seems useless. What the hell is going on scrum time? Second game where we got killed without mercy.

  • Comment 17, posted at 14.09.15 05:16:51 by Dragnipur Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    DragnipurSuper Rugby player
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 11) : That is the question. What do we do? Maybe an open letter and petition? I don’t see them paying attention any other way. But what have we got as leverage, and are we disciplined enough to follow through?

  • Comment 18, posted at 14.09.15 06:51:42 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • One thing I know about John Smit,he is a shark through and through. He has done a lot of good things at the sharks since he started. He really wants to make the sharks something special,even though he did make a lot of mistakes and still makes a few. Getting rid of him won’t be beneficial for us. We all know we need a new coach,he knows it,heck even Gold probably knows it. They can’t find one,which I understand. But how can we blame the CEO if the guys just looked as uninterested as I do when my fiance takes me to watch pitch perfect 2? The players must step up, even with a limited gameplan,they are just not playing at a level which should be acceptable

  • Comment 19, posted at 14.09.15 07:29:52 by HeinF Reply

    HeinFTeam captain
     
  • At least Pitch Perfect is more entertaining than a Sharks rugby game :twisted:

  • Comment 20, posted at 14.09.15 07:44:41 by JarsonX Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition WinnerCompetition Winner
    JarsonXAssistant coach
     
  • If gold says there were positives from that match I’m gonna lose my shit.

  • Comment 21, posted at 14.09.15 07:49:55 by Poisy Reply
    Author
    PoisyTeam captain
     
  • So where are we with finding a coach? It’s going to be Gold again, isn’t it?

    :cry:

  • Comment 22, posted at 14.09.15 07:52:15 by Dryden Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • Pitty those guys on the stand were not allowed to play. Would have been a lot more entertaining… and we might have had a chance.

    Sad state is… my superbru is not bad. And as Sharks supporter to not back my team is worst feeling ever.

    Hope those “old” chaps hang around and tell Sharks management how they are destroying all the good things they’ve done.

    Man it sucks… and once again had to watch a Bulls/Lions game to get some decent rugby on the weekend…. Sad… very sad

  • Comment 23, posted at 14.09.15 07:57:09 by ebenp Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • Are we seriously all surprised by this result? Did we honestly think we would win having seen how both teams were playing this year? Best we could hope for was to just compete and we did for half the game. I know we all repeat ourselves here but i say it again…are the players we have really good enough? Yes 1 or 2 are good but the rest? Ive also said before that i dont think the coaching/conditioning at the Sharks is not up to standard- and it showed as we were beaten up in the ruck and tackle. But Gold isnt solely responsible for all that…so if guys are calling for his head then dont forget to add the assistant coaches and conditioning crew. Before this CC started i said id be happy with a top 4 spot…and at the moment we still clawing to that.

  • Comment 24, posted at 14.09.15 08:12:42 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • I have held myself back from commenting lately,believing that if I dont have anything good to say……..you get the idea… There is something very wrong at this union…the players are really kak,the coaching disastrous en it feels like they dont really care about the empty seats??Most of the guys lacks basic skills,motivation and drive to perform for the money they earn,cause they obviously dont give 2 shits about the jersey!In Gold I feel like we have a coach rewarding mediocrity…if I had been coach and you look disinterested for so many games,the bench/stands will become your friend!!I cant wait for the day to be a proud Sharks fan again…in the mean time I find myself rooting for the Lions more and more(less ‘talent’ and alot more grit)
    But alas,next week I will fall in this trap again,believing the ‘hype’,getting carried away and continuing to screw myself in Superbru!

  • Comment 25, posted at 14.09.15 08:45:20 by BarendL Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    BarendLSuper Rugby player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 24) : When calling for Gold’s head, by definition I’m calling for his whole coaching team’s heads…Strudwick should go back to the age group guys, he did do well with the Varsity Shield team and therefore I believe he is actually a good coach.

    Everitt, as nice a guy as he probably is, has not achieved anything worth mentioning as a coach (not that I know of) and his promotion to assistant coach was probably more due to loyalty than actual ability.

    Conditioning coach (Steele or something) has been with the Sharks for ages as conditioning coach, and I don’t believe he deserves to be axed…he kept the team fit during the Plum and White era (if I’m not mistaken)….however, if there is a better conditioning coach out there, then the Sharks should look into it.

    @HeinF (Comment 19) : If we are to accept that there are no other coaches available to the Sharks, then we must also accept that this is the beginning of the end for Sharks rugby.

    Smit has done a lot of good (sponsors, UKZN), but he has done an equal amount of damage….maybe he should be made “President” of the Sharks, and we should look for a better qualified CEO….one who is able to appoint the correct DOR, and able to attract coaches with pedigree.

  • Comment 26, posted at 14.09.15 08:47:08 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • After the World Cup a lot of coaching positions become available,there is usually huge movement.
    Already Eddie Jones is on his way to the Stormers,so who knows who else will be available.
    When Gold is eventually kicked out of the coaching job, I for one don’t want him around as the DOR.
    He has done enough damage to this union.

  • Comment 27, posted at 14.09.15 09:06:41 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 26) : Thanks for clarifying…as i said i dont think it would be fair to blame it all just on Gold. Also i dont for a minute think Gold and Co are doing a good job but its also possibly a bit unfair on Gold as he hasnt as yet had a chance to do the job he was hired to do- that being Director of Rugby. Yes he took the job to coach now and he must be held responsible for that, but i think apart from being removed from hands on coaching he needs a chance to do what he was hired for. And at the same time lets get guys in who can coach! Also as much as our conditioning guys used to keep us on par, clearly they havnt evolved and just like the rest of the union we are lagging behind in terms of conditioning.

  • Comment 28, posted at 14.09.15 09:09:47 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 27) : Just throwing this out there as i feel that he has done a pretty good ‘rebuilding’ job but if they dont win the world cup Stuart Lancaster could be a free agent

  • Comment 29, posted at 14.09.15 09:18:34 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 28) :

    I’m so tired of the excuse – “He’s not doing the job he was hired for…”.

    Who did Gary Gold think was going to coach the Sharks while he does the “Directing of Rugby”? Did he honestly believe BMH would be made head coach? Surely he knew that he would be head coach until we found another and only then he will be able to step back into a DOR role? And surely he must have know that finding a proper coach just before the World Cup, would not be easy to do.

    Not to mention….

    Gold can’t coach. I am not to sure I want a DOR that can’t coach a Sharks CC team. In the last 25 years, how many times did the Sharks not make it to a CC semi final. Or in the last 10 years. And I don’t believe we always had the best team.

  • Comment 30, posted at 14.09.15 09:30:43 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    LetgoAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 29) : I would prefer a New Zealander ,they are the best coaches in the world.
    At a stage last year a N.Z coach held every single trophy of significance in the world that they competed in,men and women.

  • Comment 31, posted at 14.09.15 09:31:52 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • When Griquas and the Kings show up and win well after a few bad weeks, kind of makes you wonder where the Sharks’ guts disappeared to

  • Comment 32, posted at 14.09.15 09:43:41 by SeanJeff Reply

    SeanJeffSuper Rugby player
     
  • The things the Sharks are sucking at most are the things a coach would help a lot with.

    Scrum
    Line-out
    Defense
    Passing

    Remember how good these things were when JW were coaching the team. Go look at the stats for our 2014 campaign. I can’t understand why we didn’t hang on to him until, at least the end of this year. I thought the whole point was for him to coach in SA, at least till after the RWC when he would then likely have left for an international coaching position. I would really like to know what happened that he lefts so soon. That whole situation, with talks of players being unhappy because Jake had them working so hard, is still very unsettling to me.

  • Comment 33, posted at 14.09.15 09:43:46 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    LetgoAssistant coach
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 33) : Look the players obviously wanted more surfing time in stead of rugby time. The sharks way of course…

  • Comment 34, posted at 14.09.15 09:49:15 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli BoelieTeam captain
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 33) : Judging from that list of yours, the Sharks basically suck at rugby, and desperately need a rugby coach. :lol:

  • Comment 35, posted at 14.09.15 09:50:22 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 33) : So what is Gold doing right?
    Well at least he hasn’t lost the jerseys for awhile now.

  • Comment 36, posted at 14.09.15 09:51:45 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 30) : Your argument is a bit like saying why doesnt Thomas Du Toit outrun opponents, he knew he would have to run when he signed up so he should be able to run past everyone. Gold was signed as DOR- which involves setting up structures and more admin work than anything. The fact that the Union couldnt get a coach was not his responsibility but like White before him he has had no choice but to coach. And to that extent he also has assistant coaches that are meant to be hands on in terms of coaching the skills which we seem to be clearly lacking. So for me thats where large chunk of the blame should lie. I agree remove Gold from coaching, but let him do the admin job he was hired to do or we may as well fire Thomas DuToit for not running past opponents regularly.

  • Comment 37, posted at 14.09.15 09:57:28 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 31) : Yeh fair point…i just cant think of 1 that would become available? Joe Schmidt maybe? Vern Cotter? Not sure the deals they have in place

  • Comment 38, posted at 14.09.15 09:59:08 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 38) : How about John Mitchell and Carlos Spencer.

  • Comment 39, posted at 14.09.15 10:14:36 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @Poisy (Comment 21) : I saw that in his TV interview he said that we showed character to come back in the first half… :shock:

  • Comment 40, posted at 14.09.15 10:29:21 by pastorshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    pastorsharkCoach
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 30) : Exactly. How do you become a DOR if you have no idea how to coach? It is like appointing an accountant as the Technical Director of an high-tech engineering company.

    One can see why Jake had the players working so hard – their grasp of the basics of rugby is really poor.

  • Comment 41, posted at 14.09.15 10:48:33 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 39) : John Mitchell is a tricky one. Been to a few dinners etc where he has spoken and whilst he seems open to coaching in SA it does appear that it will only be on his terms etc. He has said that he has made KZN midlands his home but that he isnt going to rush into anything as he maks good money from supersport etc. I just wonder if the reaction of the sharks to the Jake white discipline style may put him off it. Spencer as far as i know is being lined up to ass coach the Blues i think or something like that

  • Comment 42, posted at 14.09.15 10:49:50 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 41) : Knowing what to do and doing it are very different. Also head coach and assistant are also very different roles. The Sharks seem to lack the basic skills and conditioning at the moment which is the ass coachs roles. Game plan and player management is head coach role and whilst the game plan doesnt seem the best its hard to fully judge when the skills are so badly executed.
    So i think we should give Gold the chance to get off the field and into the office and get onto the admin side of things and oversee the coaches and what they should be doing rather than him doing it himself. Pretty much the same way as us here know what should be done- but it would be a different matter if we were on the field with a whistle.

  • Comment 43, posted at 14.09.15 10:54:25 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • Coaching not good enough (remember the admission that they neglected to work on defence during Super rugby),
    Conditioning not good enough – Sharks can’t play a full 80 min, support players are non-existent, Matt Stevens manages to lose more weight and play better rugby after just a couple of months at Toulon than he did during a year at the Sharks…
    some of the players not good enough – isn’t it time for Lionel Cronje to move on to one of the few provinces he hasn’t played for (Kings?). His Sharks stay must be the longest in his career. Ettienne Oosthuizen also a journeyman at best.
    That last penalty on Saturday summed up the Sharks’ season – Wentzel knew we had no chance of scoring from a line out (would either have been not thrown in straight or missed our jumpers), so went for the “safe” option of a relatively easy penalty kick to get the bonus point…and we missed it!

  • Comment 44, posted at 14.09.15 10:55:41 by Quinnyshark Reply
    Author
    QuinnysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 41) :
    It’s like appointing someone with no CEO or business experience CEO. At least John Smit has golf day experience and connections as old Bok captain to call on. One wonders how much commercial advice he gets from Mrs Smit….

  • Comment 45, posted at 14.09.15 11:00:57 by Quinnyshark Reply
    Author
    QuinnysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 43) : “and oversee the coaches and what they should be doing rather than him doing it himself.”

    That’s hilarious! :lol:

    How is he supposed to oversee the coaches and tell them what they should be doing if he can’t even do it himself? :roll:

  • Comment 46, posted at 14.09.15 11:25:05 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 43) : @Ben (Comment 46) : It would only work if Gary told them to do the exact opposite of what he actually tells them to do. :)

  • Comment 47, posted at 14.09.15 11:26:44 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • I’m sorry to say, that on Saturday I officially gave up on the Sharks for the season. I just can’t put myself through that every weekend! My family doesn’t like the guy I turn into when the Sharks play like this, and I don’t think it’s good for my health. At least the world cup starts this weekend. I hope the Springboks can cheer me up!

  • Comment 48, posted at 14.09.15 11:29:49 by jakkalas Reply

    jakkalasCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Quinnyshark (Comment 44) : Etienne Oosthuizen. :roll: I really can’t stand the guy.

  • Comment 49, posted at 14.09.15 11:30:37 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @jakkalas (Comment 48) : If you are relying on the Boks to cheer you up then I think it’s best that you go out now and buy some anti-depressants. ;)

  • Comment 50, posted at 14.09.15 11:32:16 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • Getting rid of Smit would be a mistake. Demote Everitt and that Forwards coach. Move Gary to DOR. Get a proper coach and allow him his own support staff.

  • Comment 51, posted at 14.09.15 11:33:54 by GreatSharksays Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @Quinnyshark (Comment 44) : Long time…I think the option to kick was the right one, Pietersen has been very good to date, 3, 5 or 7 points would have had the same effect on the log position.

  • Comment 52, posted at 14.09.15 11:39:08 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • The biggest mistake Smit made was to let Jake go because of player unhappiness. Half the reason for Jake’s conservative game plan was that he realized the players at the time just did not have the skills to execute a more balanced plan, and that it would take time and a lot of hard work to get to that goal.

  • Comment 53, posted at 14.09.15 11:43:51 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 50) : Probably, but I’m optimistic by nature. :roll:

  • Comment 54, posted at 14.09.15 11:45:30 by jakkalas Reply

    jakkalasCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Ben (Comment 50) : I reckon the Boks would do well to make the semis, but until then we should at least see some entertaining matches from them. The RC matches against the Ozzies and Kiwis were for me personally the two most enjoyable matches of the year – regardless that the Boks lost. Hopefully the Boks will gives us more of that, and none of the rubbish they dished up in Durban.

  • Comment 55, posted at 14.09.15 11:47:44 by Bokhoring Reply

    BokhoringAssistant coach
     
  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 51) : Jeepers but Smit is leaving some legacy at the Sharks. It must have been so embarrassing for him and those that shoeed him into his lofty position to be at an empty Kings Park (for a game against WP nogal) while all those amazing players of a few years back were also there.To cap it all Plum was in attendance looking as happy as anything, I can just imagine what he was thinking.

  • Comment 56, posted at 14.09.15 11:52:19 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • If I was Gold Id be telling Smit to start getting my severance / payout package ready. Im sure he has more than enough grounds to walk away from the job he was not appointed to do.

  • Comment 57, posted at 14.09.15 11:54:05 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 57) : So what has he achieved in the job he was apointed to do?

  • Comment 58, posted at 14.09.15 11:58:25 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 37) :

    Do you honestly feel that a guy that aren’t capable of presenting a standard Sharks CC side (not excellent, just one that can do the basics) should be given the role of Directing Sharks Rugby. I don’t understand this argument. I also don’t understand your Thomas du Toit analogy. I don’t think he would have been expected to run past anyone… that analogy just went straight over my head. I don’t think it’s the same at all. Actually it’s more like saying, Thomas was appointed to run fast, run past anyone… but now, we are asking him to only run, but he can’t even do that. Isn’t the DOR role more elite than the Head coach role? Isn’t the DOR appointed over all coaches at the union and will put systems in place which all coaches must then follow?

  • Comment 59, posted at 14.09.15 12:00:24 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    LetgoAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 37) :

    I don’t know exactly what a DOR would do, but if the role of a DOR doesn’t at least include having the most basic skills of a CC coach, then I don’t understand his role at all.

    What is this “admin” that he’s going to do? Will the new SR head coach tell him how he’s going to coach the SR team and will Gold then type a memo and send it to all other coaches and inform them to coach like this as well? Because, I can do that job.

    If the DOR aren’t also an astute coach, aren’t he just doing what the CEO is already doing? And if the DOR is simply admin of systems and structures, what remains for the CEO to do. And why the hell is it seen as such an elite position.

    The two DOR’s that has been successful in that role (that I know of) is Rassie Erasmus (one of the first DOR’s) and recently, Gert Smal, both came from successful coaching backgrounds before going into the role of a DOR.

    I can’t imagine that we would be able to get any high profile head coaches that will be willing to work under Gary Gold. Or am I wrong in believing the new head coach of SR would in fact have to report back to Gary Gold? Would you do that if you were Eddie Jones, Nick Mallet, John Mitchell…?

    If I were them I would say: “Holy shit, this guy couldn’t even get the Sharks to the semi final of the Currie Cup, why the hell should I run my decisions by him.”

    And if I’m missing the point of a DOR and the head coach are actually the one telling the DOR what he is going to to and the DOR then just passes the message on to everyone else, why the hell can’t I, or the secretary just do that?

    Maybe I just don’t get the what role the DOR should play. I don’t know?

  • Comment 60, posted at 14.09.15 12:05:13 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
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  • What is the status of our friend Venter is still on the payroll,and is he still minister without portfolio,who only needs to appear when there is a trophy being handed over.

  • Comment 61, posted at 14.09.15 12:06:02 by The hound Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 60) : I agree. I was arguing almost the exact same point a week or two ago.

  • Comment 62, posted at 14.09.15 12:08:49 by Ben Reply
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  • So what was Gold’s response to this loss? He called for more “character” from the team. Oh my sweet tits this guy is clueless. Get GOLD OUT NOW!

    “If anything, we’re going to keep fighting harder now. It’s time for us to show some character. I know you guys are probably tired of hearing this but I’m going to continue to back this group of players. I know that when it does click I think we’ve got some great rugby players and I think we can play a good brand of rugby and we can do a lot better than what we’re doing at the moment.”

  • Comment 63, posted at 14.09.15 12:09:38 by Orlok Tsubodai Reply

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  • This DOR is a bullshit position,first one was Mallett at Province,people only realised that he had left when Rassie was appointed to his position.Peole only realised that Rassie wasn’t there anymore when he turned up at Saru.

  • Comment 64, posted at 14.09.15 12:10:15 by The hound Reply
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  • @Orlok Tsubodai (Comment 63) : He’s an idiot! :roll:

  • Comment 65, posted at 14.09.15 12:11:02 by Ben Reply
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  • I sincerely believe it will never “click” for Gold. We’re just another piece of below average to his below average coaching CV. One common denominator across all his failed previous coaching roles.

  • Comment 66, posted at 14.09.15 12:12:31 by Orlok Tsubodai Reply

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  • @Orlok Tsubodai (Comment 63) :

    I’m with you. Gold out. I can’t see the point of elevating him into the role of DOR. For what? To hide behind the new head coach and continue receiving his fat pay check?

    I don’t agree at all with this argument that Gold just doesn’t have the players to work with. I didn’t know Paul Jordaan was always shit and could never pass a ball. This guy actually played 10 at one point in his career and now he can’t even make a pass to the guy next to him?

    Ungerer apparently was a promising youngster, yet, what I have seen from him since Gold has been appointed DOR and taken over coaching is a young man who can barely do the basics of a scrummy.

    Kyle Cooper and Monde Hadebe are suddely useless hookers, when Kyle at one point were pushing Bismark for a starting spot.

    Thomas are struggling, as are Dale (who has had up and down moments as a scrummager), but under JW both these players dominated SR teams at certain points – think Crusaders 2014 with a 13 man team. In the last 20 minutes Dale, Cooper and Thomas had taken over from our starting pack, as we needed the fresh legs and these guys score the winning try of an excellent 7 man scrum.

    Why have our set-pieces and basic rugby skills gone out the window since the start of this year?

    Why the hell would we give Gold a chance to direct our rugby, when he can’t even coach a singular CC team? We can do it, but I have to say, I see it failing badly, no, horrendously. I have no faith in him improving our structures. I also don’t see a proper coach being willing to coach under him (perhaps this is why we haven’t found a head coach yet?).

  • Comment 67, posted at 14.09.15 12:19:50 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 59) : Ok put it this way…what in your mind is a DOR meant to do? For me its not to tell the coaches how to coach and how the players should catch and pass and tackle etc, thats why the coach is there-to coach and do things his way. The DOR is to ensure that throughout the Union there is adequate coaching in place and that the coaches are striving to play in the agreed apon style. Its also to ensure that other systems such as the conditioning, video analysis etc are in place to afford the coaching staff and players the best opportunity to succeed. A DOR should play no role in the technical skills and game plans for the various teams. So yes i believe Gold should be given the chance to actually do that role. Fair enough ‘fire’ him from coaching…but thats not why he came to the Sharks

  • Comment 68, posted at 14.09.15 12:20:08 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Orlok Tsubodai (Comment 66) : The difference this time is that its the last chance saloon for him he’s shat on his chips in three continents,and the only thing left for him is a coaching position in Kenya or Zambia.
    He is going to hang in here as long as he can.

  • Comment 69, posted at 14.09.15 12:20:51 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 58) : Squat – he hasnt yet worked in that capacity.

  • Comment 70, posted at 14.09.15 12:21:09 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • So when we say Gold is useless are we including hi assistants and the conditioning staff in that and saying they should all get out? If its Just Gold then thats seriously unfair to be honest. So yes remove Gold from on the field coaching and get him doing the job we signed him for- then lets judge him. But in that same breath lets remove the ass coaches and conditioning staff as they have also been below par. Do we hold players accountable as well or just let them slide?

  • Comment 71, posted at 14.09.15 12:27:36 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • I’m getting sick and tired of people assuming Gold did not come to the Sharks to “coach”. Gold was a like-for-like replacement for Jake White. Jake White was Director of Rugby too. Jake White, as is Gold, was expected to be hands on in Super Rugby. Jake White stepped back from the Currie Cup to work on “structures” (hate that word) and left the coaching to his assistants (possibly for financial reasons?).

    Gold was hands on coach in Super Rugby, fulfilling the exact same role vacated by White as DoR.

    However, after MacLeod-Henderson was sacked, no other coach could be found for the Currie Cup team which meant Gold had to step in to coach this Currie Cup campaign when he, like White, may have been expecting a few months to put his feet up.

    Stop spreading the mistruth that Gold is not at the Sharks to coach. He’s our Super Rugby coach (because that’s what a Sharks Director of Rugby does – as Jake White happily did).

    And Gold sucked big time as the man in charge of our Super Rugby team. So why do you want this incompetent chap to stay at our union in ANY role?

  • Comment 72, posted at 14.09.15 12:37:20 by Orlok Tsubodai Reply

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  • Even BMH did a better job with the CC team last year…and he was asked to take a demotion.

    So Gold, either take a post as Craven week coach, or shove off back to the brylcreem lab.

  • Comment 73, posted at 14.09.15 12:38:13 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • Gold coached the Super Rugby team. As did the previous Director of Rugby before him. And he sucked. So who has been doing a job he wasn’t hired for???

  • Comment 74, posted at 14.09.15 12:41:09 by Orlok Tsubodai Reply

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  • @Orlok Tsubodai (Comment 72) : So do you believe Gold’s assistants should be sacked too? and the conditioning staff? And which guy is waiting to replace them? Its very easy just to keeping shouting Gold out Gold out without providing any feasible solutions. U are doing exactly what u are moaning Gold does when he just make vague comments after the game. I can also say Gold out, Smit out, Everitt out, players out…but then we sit with no ceo, no coach, no team? U going to watch Amazulu then?

  • Comment 75, posted at 14.09.15 12:43:46 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 27) : It is preposterous to even think of making him D.O.R. after this. That is a promotion. Its like I own 4 supermarkets and one manager sinks his fucking ship and then tells me he is actually better suited to a head office job so he can manage all 4 managers! Its bloody ridiculous. Gold Out!

  • Comment 76, posted at 14.09.15 12:44:37 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 73) : Still happy you so vehemently wanted wanted Pum gone. It must have irked you seeing him at the Park, surrounded by his mates. :twisted:

  • Comment 77, posted at 14.09.15 12:44:37 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 71) : I think the point you are missing is that we have never had a DOR,but we used to have a coach.
    First priority is find a coach,then think about a DOR.
    For my two cents the DOR should be a Natal man ,with proven Natal rugby credentials in his veins,doesn’t need to a high profile figure,not a media person,but a back room person,Somebody like Stefan Terreblanche,Jaques Botes,or the guy who used to run the academy,name eludes me.
    But definitely not a failed coach who couldn’t coach a kitten to drink milk.

  • Comment 78, posted at 14.09.15 12:45:06 by The hound Reply
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  • @Orlok Tsubodai (Comment 74) : Nobody has been doing the proper DOR role such as Gert Smal in CPT. Smal has had time to recruit all these players etc while Dobson coaches…who is doing that at the Sharks? Nobody

  • Comment 79, posted at 14.09.15 12:46:18 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 75) : Have the Sharks contacted Robert du Preez (Snr.)?…why would he prefer to stay on at Potch when he can coach the Sharks CC team?

    …or Jimmy Stonehouse (not a fan of him as a person, but he seems to know a thing or two about coaching)?

    That’s just off the top of my head…surely there’s many more better skilled coaches in SA than Gold….but will Smit be willing to work with a head coach when said coach is not his buddy/puppet?

  • Comment 80, posted at 14.09.15 12:48:28 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 75) : huh? I dont think anyone proposes we fire someone and not replace him!!?

  • Comment 81, posted at 14.09.15 12:49:09 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 78) : Yeh i get what you saying- the problem they are having is nobody wants to coach the Sharks! I would have preferred Botes be DOR over Gold but Botes probably would have turned it down the year after he stopped playing- in 3yrs time perhaps thats the role he would fulfill. Since Hans Scriba left the academy for a role at SARU the academy has been a joke. i dont think a DOR needs to be a good hands on coach because if he is then he should rather coach. we need a guy (Gold who was appointed) to do the same job as Gert Smal in CPT. we think the WP pack destroyed us- wait till u see the Stormers pack. But do agree with you that we need better coaching- problem is nobody seems to want to.

  • Comment 82, posted at 14.09.15 12:50:32 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 78) : Im with you there. Find a coach first. Directors of Rugby are a luxury meant for top performing teams.

  • Comment 83, posted at 14.09.15 12:51:02 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 77) : Never bothered to watch the game, so I felt nothing ;-)

    However, do you honestly believe that Plum deserved another 5 year contract?
    Do you honestly believe that change wasn’t required?

    The changes might not have worked, but that doesn’t discount the fact that change was (and is) needed…

  • Comment 84, posted at 14.09.15 12:52:54 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 81) : Replace with?? i dont see the guys jumping up to coach…hence Gold had to

  • Comment 85, posted at 14.09.15 12:53:00 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 80) : Rob left Durban because he was overlooked for the Vodacom Cup side etc. Think still a very sour taste so cant see him coming back. and Stonehouse has a Japanese contract…last time checked the Rand didnt compare favourably. As i said its easy to throw names around…but realistic options much harder to find

  • Comment 86, posted at 14.09.15 12:54:31 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • Jimmy Stonehouse, Robert du Preez, John Mitchell, Clive Woodward, Ewen Mckenzie, Dawie Theron, Dick Muir, Robbie Deans. Please pretty please dont tell me we cant find a coach. Its just that we are expecting one of those names to work under Gold, isnt it?

  • Comment 87, posted at 14.09.15 12:54:59 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 87) : I said it from the start, if we had to replace Plum so badly as what everyone said we needed too, then we should have replaced him with Robert du Preez.

  • Comment 88, posted at 14.09.15 12:56:04 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 84) : It was needed, but you trade up not down

  • Comment 89, posted at 14.09.15 12:56:50 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 87) : …and be a buddy of Smit – which is why I personally believe that Smit has become a hindrance to the Sharks cause.

    Unless he shows a willingness to fire his buddies, and employ people to do the job (irrespective of their social standing with him), then he should be shown the door.

  • Comment 90, posted at 14.09.15 12:57:37 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 75) : I believe Gold should be the first one to go. Get in a real coach and let that coach decide who he wants as assistants.

  • Comment 91, posted at 14.09.15 12:57:40 by Ben Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 85) : @SheldonK (Comment 86) : Fair enough but if there really is no other coaches then we should install our local coaches and back them fully. The Sharks just have always had this manner in which they knew how to break them selves.

  • Comment 92, posted at 14.09.15 12:57:55 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 82) : I watched the 2007 World Cup final last night on Supersport,and one thing John Smit could do was throw in the lineouts,how the fuck can he sit on the side lines and watch our collection of hookers throwing the pathetic crap that they throw.
    How can he care so little ,not go down to the practice grounds and do a throwing clinic.

  • Comment 93, posted at 14.09.15 12:58:30 by The hound Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 84) : There was no need for change, maybe more direction but not change.

  • Comment 94, posted at 14.09.15 12:58:46 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 86) : So if nobody wants to coach the Sharks – the question that needs answering, and solving is: WHY?

    That would be the first step in rectifying the mess that the Sharks are currently in…eradicating the “WHY” would be the first step in the rebuilding process.

  • Comment 95, posted at 14.09.15 13:00:23 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 90) : JS wont move, look how long he held onto the Bok job, he was just as much a nuisance to the Boks in his last years.

  • Comment 96, posted at 14.09.15 13:00:25 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 87) : Which of those names are realistic? Or are we just throwing coaching names out..we may as well throw in Pieter De Villiers, Graham Henry, Ian Foster, Stuart Lancaster, Joe Smidt, Vern Cotter, John Kirwan, Steve Hansen, Warren Gatland and every other guy who has ever coached. None of those have ever indicated in the slightest the willingness to coach the Sharks not have the Union indicated any have been approached.

  • Comment 97, posted at 14.09.15 13:00:35 by SheldonK Reply

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  • SheldonK you are repeating the outright fallacy that Gold was appointed to some other position which was NOT to coach our Super Rugby team. That’s bullshit. Gold was the head coach for our Super Rugby team, just as our previous Director of Rugby, Jake White, was.

    So stop trying to put a victim tag around Gold’s neck. Hold him fully to account for the results he has achieved…

  • Comment 98, posted at 14.09.15 13:00:51 by Orlok Tsubodai Reply

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  • @Ben (Comment 91) : That is the hammer moering the nail smack on the nose right there! How can we expect to attract a machine coach if he cant pick his own back office? This whole situation is so ridiculous man. you know what fk this

  • Comment 99, posted at 14.09.15 13:01:11 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 95) : Trust me that fall out with Jake White has put many coaches off as there is now a lazy player stigma at the Sharks and the players are seen to rule the roost. Change that and then we may see a few coaches putting their hands up

  • Comment 100, posted at 14.09.15 13:01:49 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 94) : If we want a SR trophy…then change was (and is) needed.

    Plum has gone how many SR campaigns and play-offs and finals – with zero cups….even in NZ.

  • Comment 101, posted at 14.09.15 13:03:04 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Orlok Tsubodai (Comment 98) : Yes Super rugby coach- he didnt do well. But he hasnt been able to fulfill his DOR after that as nobody could be found to coach the CC. Can you honestly tell me that Gold has had the chance to do the same job as Gert Smal has in Cpt? and besides your Gold out rant you are yet to provide a realistic solution other than fire everyone

  • Comment 102, posted at 14.09.15 13:03:44 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 97) : none of your names were realistic. Mine all were. End of story.

  • Comment 103, posted at 14.09.15 13:04:03 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 101) : agreed. Jake White was the right replacement. Bringing his contract to an end because the players said so was wrong. Then hiring Gold to replace White was stupid. Talk about a regression.

  • Comment 104, posted at 14.09.15 13:04:55 by Orlok Tsubodai Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 100) : Now that is a very good point

  • Comment 105, posted at 14.09.15 13:05:08 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 100) : In other words, the coach needs to be allowed to coach without any backroom interference….whoever is blocking that needs to change or leave, because that is the root of the current problem.

  • Comment 106, posted at 14.09.15 13:05:16 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 100) : How do you change that though? Ill tell you. Gold Out. Smit Out.

  • Comment 107, posted at 14.09.15 13:06:32 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 102) : so Gold will be back to coach our Super team next year. With a little more coaching “experience” under his belt than he expected (surely that is also a good thing in its own way, he needs it?). Are you happy he will coach our Super Rugby team next year?

  • Comment 108, posted at 14.09.15 13:07:03 by Orlok Tsubodai Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 101) : Well show me one Sharks coach who has managed to get the CUP. Seriously the one thing Plum did was to be constant, even if we never won the super cup with him there he still is a brilliant coach and light years ahead of our current coaches.

    So would you say that with Plum he was a unsuccessful coach then? based on the amount of Super trophies he brought home?
    to point out to you every team he has has worked with since leaving the sharks either won the cup of finished top of the log. Does that not tell you something?

  • Comment 109, posted at 14.09.15 13:07:52 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 109) : They shouldve kept Plum and thrown the whole piggy bank at Muir if they really needed a director.

  • Comment 110, posted at 14.09.15 13:09:50 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 101) : Plum was part of a much bigger picture,he had to go because he was part of the corrupt regime that was swept out of office with BJ,they all went and JS was appointed with a mandate for a clean sweep and to usher in a brand new era.
    Plum was part of that old regime,and I’ll bet John was told to start his tenure by getting in a new coach.
    Venter was already on board,and he had no love for Plum,remember he was the guy who brought in Jake.

  • Comment 111, posted at 14.09.15 13:10:30 by The hound Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 110) Yes or Jw as dor.

  • Comment 112, posted at 14.09.15 13:12:51 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 109) : Nobody has won the SR cup with Plum as their coach.

    Plum is a good technical coach and therefore a brilliant assistant coach….but I would hate to support the Sharks for all these years, merely to be content with being a good CC team, and an exciting SR team, but never to win this elusive SR trophy.

    I’d rather have the Sharks follow this current path of pain, in hopes of things somewhere getting better, than merely accepting that Plum was as good as it got.

  • Comment 113, posted at 14.09.15 13:14:01 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 110) : Plum had to go though as JS had personal agenda with him.

  • Comment 114, posted at 14.09.15 13:14:03 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Orlok Tsubodai (Comment 108) : As far as i am aware Gold is not meant to coach super rugby next year. he is meant to fulfil the DOR job and somebody else coach…however should they again not be able to find anyone then he may have to which is not ideal. You still havnt given a solution besides fire everyone? we seem so keen to get rid of these guys yet there is no alternative plan! We have very short memories on how horrible the sharks were in CC last year and throughout our junior ranks…did we suddenly think these players will become superstars if Gary Gold gave them a hug after sucking for the last couple years. Lets face reality…from top to bottom management and players the Sharks are not as good as we think they are.

  • Comment 115, posted at 14.09.15 13:14:04 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 84) : Hand on heart, I would be ecstatic if his contract had been extended, if van Zyl, Strools, de Bruyn et al were still traipsing the corridors of the tank, if the academy and its staff were still functional etc. Yes I would be very, very happy.

  • Comment 116, posted at 14.09.15 13:16:31 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 113) : See that’s were you wrong. Tweaking was necessary yes, but not a whole clean out.

  • Comment 117, posted at 14.09.15 13:16:40 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • I am all for firing everyone. Don’t see the point of sticking with someone who can’t do the job. Problem is no one wants the job.

  • Comment 118, posted at 14.09.15 13:17:31 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 116) : By all accounts, had that been the case, then the Sharks would have been bankrupt and possibly facing serious charges of fraud….then everybody would have been fired and we’d be in a far worse position than we are right now.

  • Comment 119, posted at 14.09.15 13:19:29 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 119) : Based on what?

  • Comment 120, posted at 14.09.15 13:20:27 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 119) : Well put.

  • Comment 121, posted at 14.09.15 13:21:39 by The hound Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 120) : Many a news report. It should be out there somewhere on the old interwebs ;-)

  • Comment 122, posted at 14.09.15 13:24:02 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 86) : Hopefully he can realise that Jake White and his love child (Tim Swiel) have now departed. I also get the impression that WP actually prefer the Du Plessis kid above him and there are talks that they are seriously chasing Boshoff for next year, so if he reads betwen the lines he may not be first choice in Cpt either.

  • Comment 123, posted at 14.09.15 13:24:23 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 111) : How was van Zyl corrupt, how was Plum corrupt. Juicy details please – SAP case numbers will also be appreciated.

  • Comment 124, posted at 14.09.15 13:26:22 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • Simple truth is the Sharks cannot afford a massive cleanout. So i suggest write off the CC and just try what we can to make the semis but if not so be it. Let Gold get started with his DOR now and let his assistants finish the CC. Get a guy like Jaques Botes to be forwards coach next year with a guy like Deon Keyser as backs coach. Getting a high profile coach is pretty unlikely after the White debacle so the head coach role could be difficult to fill. Although Ryan Strudwick seems capable of doing that possible better than being a hands on assistant. Should we somehow find a high profile assistant then i suggest he bring his own assistants.

  • Comment 125, posted at 14.09.15 13:26:30 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 123) : Dont get me wrong Rob DuPreez is a good coach but very stubborn in his ways…although i suppose nobody is perfect. He is very loyal to guys that have been with him for ages though. and can u imagine the outcry if Rob picks his lighty at 10 over Lambie…

  • Comment 126, posted at 14.09.15 13:28:13 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 119) : Details please, put some meat on this skeleton in the tank.

  • Comment 127, posted at 14.09.15 13:31:43 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 127) : It’s old news by now, I sure don’t have the energy (or time ) to dredge through all the news stories since Smit’s appointment….but the financial crisis was pretty well documented, which is why Smit went Sponsor hunting.

    The fraud was eventually pinned on some or other staff lady at the Sharks, but who knows what went on behind the scenes and why most of the management was fired without much resistance (or retaliation).

  • Comment 128, posted at 14.09.15 13:36:21 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 125) : ag man and here you are suggesting we appoint more (untried and untested/zero coaching experience) ex Sharks players as coaches? This is a Sharks problem…. we need to stop repeating this buddy system. We are a professional union not an old boys club.

  • Comment 129, posted at 14.09.15 13:37:51 by Orlok Tsubodai Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @Orlok Tsubodai (Comment 129) : When White left there was a big vacancy for any high profile coach to come along and fill and name his price pretty much…which ones rushed to hand their CVs in? Thats right- zero! And at least i provided a solution? waiting on yours?

  • Comment 130, posted at 14.09.15 13:41:03 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 128) : Rumours. Who was fired, I know of the lady but who else was (other than Plum)

  • Comment 131, posted at 14.09.15 13:43:11 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 130) : …..solution – GOLD OUT, repeat X 3.

  • Comment 132, posted at 14.09.15 13:45:12 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 132) : ok and then? how do the results and abilities of the u19s, u21s and Vodacom players who filter into the top sides improve? Which coach coming in can guarantee winning a trophy?

  • Comment 133, posted at 14.09.15 13:46:49 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 131) : Why else did most of the management leave so suddenly…you cant tell me that their contracts expired at the exact same time?

    And they certainly didn’t all leave because they just couldn’t stand the thought of working with Smit…none of them would’ve known what he’d be bringing to the table as CEO.

    Nope, they were asked to resign (at best), and given a good reason to not make a scene or retaliate…and so they all left quietly, one after the other.

  • Comment 134, posted at 14.09.15 13:48:54 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 126) : Yes but he could also select his lighty one place on from Lambie and I wont say a word. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 135, posted at 14.09.15 13:50:01 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 135) : i def wouldnt complain about that…

  • Comment 136, posted at 14.09.15 13:50:47 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 131) : On one day something like 120 years of experience left K.P, read BJ,Strauelli,Piet Strydom,etc ,etc,al by coincidence or all under the code of silence,that is eating away at the union.
    Nobody spoke,but everyone surmised,just like they did when Jake picked up his ball and went home.
    So forget the rumours but look at the facts,Plum was part of that group and had been so for a number of years,he had to go as well.

  • Comment 137, posted at 14.09.15 13:51:23 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 134) : Smit was only appointed after BJ was given notice,

  • Comment 138, posted at 14.09.15 13:53:39 by The hound Reply
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    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 134) : But who are “they all”. Van Zyl served out his term, didnt he?

  • Comment 139, posted at 14.09.15 14:04:33 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 130) : thats bullshit bud. Was the position advertised? All we know is that Mallet and Mitchell were tentatively sounded out. Because pretty fast after White left – almost with no thought at all – Gold’a appointment was announced. It’s not like the union dangled a worm for any potential candidates for very long. No, all indications are that the top brass thought Gold was their man. Gold’s apparent “nice guy to players” quality was trumpeted on his appointment, seemingly a snub to the outgoing DoR.

  • Comment 140, posted at 14.09.15 14:04:52 by Orlok Tsubodai Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • And apparently Mitchell WAS interested but only if the union agreed to a 4 year contract.

  • Comment 141, posted at 14.09.15 14:07:50 by Orlok Tsubodai Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @Orlok Tsubodai (Comment 141) : no, that was the WP gig.

    Mitchell has never, to my knowledge, expressed interest in the Sharks job. He and Smit can’t and won’t work together.

  • Comment 142, posted at 14.09.15 14:10:07 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 142) : oh that’s interesting. I wonder where I read about the 4 year stumbling block (which I most certainly did read somewhere). But even more interesting is the issue between Mitchell and Smit…

  • Comment 143, posted at 14.09.15 14:12:53 by Orlok Tsubodai Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @Orlok Tsubodai (Comment 140) : Of course the position was advertised. Not sure where you are getting your info from but you are way off. Mitchell wasnt interested then as the Union was a mess and he didnt want to get involved after a fall out like that. Your every comment on here is just Gold out nothing more. U are yet so say something positive or offer a solution other than Gold Out…u should change your name to that.

  • Comment 144, posted at 14.09.15 14:12:55 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • The more I read the more I start to change my perception of Smit as the nice guy, well liked by all in the game to tyrannical despot.

  • Comment 145, posted at 14.09.15 14:14:31 by Orlok Tsubodai Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 144) : dude the solution is…. GOLD OUT! Hahahaha you’re a bit slow not to see it no? :lol:

    It’s not “the” solution to all the problems. But it’s a start. Throw this rotten apple in the bin, stop polishing it.

  • Comment 146, posted at 14.09.15 14:16:26 by Orlok Tsubodai Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @The hound (Comment 137) : So these guys were on the point of bankrupting the union and not a single charge was laid – come on. Saad said that if anything was unearthed in the audit it would be made public – so far squat.

    I could give you my thoughts on why the purge happened but that would also, for most parts, be speculation.

  • Comment 147, posted at 14.09.15 14:21:06 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @Orlok Tsubodai (Comment 146) : Sorry to tell you Gold isnt the problem…i know its the easy scapegoat but Gold Out wont solve anything other than the where did our bank balance go question. This seasons results were a long time coming…just go back and check the u19s,u21s and vodacom cup results over last few years. This was coming. The players we tried to bring in are not good enough to stem that tide that was always coming. Our vodacom cup side, u19s and u21s have again been horrible this year so there is no quality production line. The presence of some good Boks masked the true ability of the Sharks…without those guys these are the results we were always destined for unless there was a major player influx to change that…there wasnt and well surprise! We are still in 4th spot..just but we there. A semi spot will be a serious win for this average bunch. We can say Gold Out till the season is over…it wont change the coming tide

  • Comment 148, posted at 14.09.15 14:24:53 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 148) : How many teams have had success under Gold?

    His coaching record tells me that he is a below average coach.

    How did Ackerman coach his group of discards into the team they are today? He sure didn’t have the players, the guys he’s winning with was discarded by the Sharks and the Bulls….yet he turned his average lot into the top CC side.

    A decent coach goes a long way in ensuring success.

  • Comment 149, posted at 14.09.15 14:37:41 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 149) : Remind me of Ackermans success as a coach before his appointment? How much of his side has changed due to boks coming and going, players to Japan etc? They have won 1 CC is last few years thats it. So seems to me as they have same success in terms of trophies as the Sharks.

  • Comment 150, posted at 14.09.15 14:41:53 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 150) : You are blind if you believe that. :roll:

  • Comment 151, posted at 14.09.15 14:49:25 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 151) : Yes they are playing good rugby…but what have they won? Plumtree was getting us good results and Currie Cups but was deemed a failure because of Super rugby…so im just using that as a yardstick. Also did Ackerman get instant success in his first year? Yet we want that from Gold. If we honest who currently has the better players? Id say Ackermann. So with more time and better current players he is producing better than Gold.

  • Comment 152, posted at 14.09.15 15:00:33 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 152) : Here’s Gold’s record – then tell me that there is anything to suggest that he has to potential to be any better than he is currently doing with the Sharks:

    Courtesy of Wikipedia:
    2004 to 2005 London Irish head coach – 8th and 10th (out of 12 teams)

    2006 WP/Stormers forwards coach
    2007 WP head coach – 5th (Lowest of the big unions)

    2008 to 2011 Bok Forwards coach

    January 2012 Newcastle Falcons – Relegated by one point (having been 9 points adrift, to Gold that was probably an achievement)

    May 2012 Bath Head Coach – “…lackluster…”
    Elevated to Bath Director of Rugby“…asked to leave…” Dec. 2013

    2015 Sharks SR DoR/Head Coach – 11th

    No record of his time in Japan – but judging by his past and current record at the Sharks, it would probably have been mid to lower table.

  • Comment 153, posted at 14.09.15 15:11:16 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 100) :

    So you agree, Gold is not up to standard and we only got him because we had no other choice???

    Still no reason to defend the guys performances. He is not good enough and we should a proper replacement … regardless of how difficult it has been made by previous appointments and retrenchments of coaches.

  • Comment 154, posted at 14.09.15 15:18:10 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 154) : Gold hasnt been a good coach. Yes there factors involved but basically yes. But im not going to judge him as a DOR as he hasnt done that yet at all. So yes take him away from coaching and let him do the DOR role and get another coach. But that was the plan all along

  • Comment 155, posted at 14.09.15 15:35:46 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 153) : Im not saying the guy is a great coach…but we was hired to be DOR- let him do that then let us judge. Also very unfair to compare Ackerman at the Lions to Gold at the Sharks. Of the new coaches..Nollis Marais at the Bulls is doign the best- lets not even begin to discuss his production line. John Dobson at WP has had his struggles, but again lets not talk production line. Franco Smit at the Cheetahs- they are below us on the log and so are the Pumas, Griquas and EP Kings. So of the newbie coaches only the Bulls and WP are ahead of the Sharks and they both have vastly different player resources. So just a bit of perspective thats all.

  • Comment 156, posted at 14.09.15 15:39:40 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 156) : if you want the Sharks to stay in this slump for the next 5 years then we need to keep Gold.

  • Comment 157, posted at 14.09.15 15:42:20 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli BoelieTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 156) : Nollis had major success with Tuks…Dobson had major success with UCT and Voda-Cup.

    Franco had major success with Shimlas, so there’s hope for tsieta fans that things will improve, as Franco has proven coaching ability – and don’t worry, they’ll finish above us on the CC log…Gold will get us to a highest position of 5th, same as he achieved with WP in 2007.

    Where has Gold ever had any semblance of success, on which we can pin our hopes?

  • Comment 158, posted at 14.09.15 15:47:55 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 24) : Nope not really that’s why I said beginning of this week that expecting a turnaround before Lions game is not going to happen. But we all hoped the slight shuffle would at least make a difference against wp if not lions.

  • Comment 159, posted at 14.09.15 15:55:51 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • I must just add what I always say when the DOR specialization comes up. Should a DOR have the basic skill of being a good coach first? Even if it isn’t your primary role. Else how will you as DOR find employ performance measure and grow a coach if you can’t even do the job yourself? Isn’t it like having a Sargeant who has never been a good soldier first?

  • Comment 160, posted at 14.09.15 16:01:37 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 158) : Where has our junior teams had a semblance of success that you can pin your hopes on? Do u think someone is going to wave a wand and these guys are going to suddenly come right? Gold bite the bullet and coached- he should have told Smit to go jump and he will only do his DOR role and we would be slating some other poor sod that got stuck with this lot.

  • Comment 161, posted at 14.09.15 16:01:43 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 160) : Paul Anthony wont he junior CC with the Bulls but hasnt won a game with the u19s…do we blame Gold? Anthony? or the sub standard players at the Union?

  • Comment 162, posted at 14.09.15 16:03:11 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 161) : Where have we ever had successful age group and voda-cup teams?

  • Comment 163, posted at 14.09.15 16:04:02 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 162) : Well all the ranting is pointless venting anyways. We as fans have no platform to air our gripes neither do we have any leverage to enforce a revolution or change. I guess we will have to wait for the house to burn down before it gets saved or rebuilt.

  • Comment 164, posted at 14.09.15 16:07:35 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 163) : Thats exactly my point! Its those bladdy players that are now in the top side trying to hack it without our Boks. And the players we have brought in arent able to cover for them.

  • Comment 165, posted at 14.09.15 16:08:52 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 165) : Plum managed to win CC’s even though our age group rugby was rubbish…WP and Bulls struggle to win trophies even though their age group rugby is very successful – it clearly has no bearing on senior rugby.

  • Comment 166, posted at 14.09.15 16:11:28 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 164) : The sad truth is he may not be everyone’s cup of tea but a lot of people, especially coaches value Jake White’s opinion. and his scathing report on the union and lazy players has def affected possible coaches lining up at the shark tank

  • Comment 167, posted at 14.09.15 16:11:31 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 166) : If you truly believe your juniors have no barring on future success im glad u arent DOR.

  • Comment 168, posted at 14.09.15 16:12:58 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 168) : Clearly your beliefs transcends all forms of rational debate and leaves no room for the facts at hand.

  • Comment 169, posted at 14.09.15 17:41:52 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 147) : where did I say they were bankrupting the union,I did say that there was a simultaneous purge of the most senior employees in the union
    Now you don’t get rid of that much experience ,without there being a huge droll in die drink water,work it out bru its not that subtle.

  • Comment 170, posted at 14.09.15 17:42:02 by The hound Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 166) : as far as I’m aware the Sharks age group rugby has always been swak yet the main team has managed to pull through since 1990 more often than not…

  • Comment 171, posted at 14.09.15 17:47:19 by Orlok Tsubodai Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @The hound (Comment 170) :

    Covering up financial malfeasance is an act of malfeasance itself, thus if the previous bunch were malfeasant, then the current bunch are likewise.

    If the previous bunch were incompetent, then judging by the empty stadium and poor performance, the current bunch are even more so.

  • Comment 172, posted at 15.09.15 04:45:23 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 172) : Agree there is an almost Mafia code of silence prevalent in this regime,and it is this lack of transparency that is fuelling most of the fans discontent

  • Comment 173, posted at 15.09.15 08:08:04 by The hound Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 169) : @Orlok Tsubodai (Comment 171) : Great long term strategy guys…bugger the juniors and lets rather sign guys for the top side. And what were your calls during super rugby…give the youngsters a chance? Ya great strategy

  • Comment 174, posted at 15.09.15 08:32:08 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 174) : Guy if your senior team is performing it is so much easier to attract quality juniors,”Field of Dreams,Build it and they will come.”
    The priority is fix the seniors first.

  • Comment 175, posted at 15.09.15 08:40:41 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 175) : I do get that but our seniors were fixed and winning but yet we still didnt attract good juniors. As ive said the large group of Boks we had masked the true strength of the union. When those guys left and we didnt replace with more Boks we then had to use from within and those guys are clearly not good enough. So yes by all means the senior side needs to take top priority but neglect your juniors like we have and this is the result. If you also look at our coaching structures from the academy upwards there has been a decline in quality too due to no succession plan. These are all things a DOR is meant to put in place.

  • Comment 176, posted at 15.09.15 08:46:31 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 174) : So tell me Mr. Solutions, how should Smit fix the juniors?

    We have very few top rugby schools in KZN….we have a university that is probably at the bottom of most rugby players’ list when looking for tertiary education.

    …and our academy is nowhere because it is an antiquated concept.

    So you tell me, why should any u/19 or u/21 player make KZN their home…other than being a Sharks supporter (think Thomas du Toit and Marcel Coetsee) – which they won’t be if our seniors keep producing the rubbish they are producing?

  • Comment 177, posted at 15.09.15 08:50:06 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • Well this is just sad. I cant even bear to watch a 5 minute highlites package of the game. Thats how painfull this is. Gold has absolutely and completely faile. I wonder what @robdylan has to say about this

  • Comment 178, posted at 15.09.15 09:02:12 by AYA11 Reply

    AYA11Under 21 player
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 177) : We firstly need to align things- the academy gives students degrees wthrough Unisa(varsity college) or ETA- change that so all degrees go through UKZN. Therefore all academy students are eligible to play varsity cup. Then offer more than the 15 current bursaries to the academy (did u know the vast majority of the academy are paid students, not based on ability). So between the alignment and the increase in bursaries we need to actively recruit both u19s and u21s. Coaches need to be put in place on a 3yr cycle so for example a guy coaches the u19s then u21s then vodacom side…then he can recycle back and start at u19s if he not ready for senior coaching yet. We need a better high performance centre set up in durban- do u think its any coincidence that majority of the junior boks are from wp or pta as thats where they train at the high performance institutes. so basically align your structures, get continuity and succession planning through coaching, then recruit and get UKZN into the varsity cup. As u say u need a viable business model before u will attract good employees.

  • Comment 179, posted at 15.09.15 09:06:57 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 179) : From what I could pick up thus far, Smit is working with UKZN and most of the Varsity Shield team is made up of academy players.

    Also, Strudwick was supposed to coach the age groups this year, as he knew most of them from UKZN…that fell apart when Horak turned out to be a total fail at senior level.

    But this is something that is clearly not achieved within 1 or 2 years, and our senior side can surely not play B-section rugby while we patiently wait for all of the above to finally fall into place.

    That is a long term plan, but the short term plan is where we are completely failing….and that needs instant success – which won’t happen while Gold is there.

  • Comment 180, posted at 15.09.15 09:24:26 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 180) : Look i believe he is starting things..i believe the ukzn varsity shield side will be based in durban not pmb- that helps. yes a few academy students play in the side but not many due to the degree problem- remember you are allowed some non students. As you say its not an instant success plan but it is a plan that needs to be implemented sooner rather than later. In terms of the senior side- remove Gold from the on field coaching and let him help focus on that previously mentioned plan. We need to asap find a head coach (one that has his own assistants) for 2016. We have a couple players coming in but we desperately need to bolster our tight 5, desperately!! This CC is pretty much a write off before it even started…we went in short on playing personnel and coaching so we just kind of winged it. Thats why i say just making a semi would be a big positive. So just let these guys play, dont expect major results but these guys needs to show character that will stand the union in good stead going forward as these guys then have a bit of experience to bolster the super rugby side etc. I may miss a few names but guys coming in for super rugby include beast, coenie, lewies, coetzee, kankowski, lambie, mvovo, le roux, jp pieterson, jaques potgieter

  • Comment 181, posted at 15.09.15 09:37:28 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 180) : Judging by the under 21 results Im starting to wonder if Horak is really as bad a coach as we believe.

  • Comment 182, posted at 15.09.15 10:18:11 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 182) : I also started to think that, then I saw Rob’s stats which has us at only 50%…but contrasted with the u/19s, he’s probably doing miracles with what he has.

    So, basically I’m still undecided, but he’s doing better than I expected.

  • Comment 183, posted at 15.09.15 10:27:12 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 183) : Give that team access to Thomas du Toit and the 2 Dup brothers and how good would they then be, and conversely how bad would the seniors be.

  • Comment 184, posted at 15.09.15 10:43:27 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 184) : Too true

  • Comment 185, posted at 15.09.15 11:07:19 by FireTheLooser Reply

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