robdylan

How did we get here?


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Reader Submissions, Sharks on 15 Sep 2015 at 09:10
Tagged with : , , , ,

I’m going to do something a little different today. I ended up in an intriguing Twitter conversation yesterday with a follower who set out a very detailed timeline and analysis of the Sharks’ current situation. With his permission, I’m going to share that entire analysis here (collating no fewer than 17 tweets in the process) for you all to digest and discuss. Credit to Twitter user @Yonibass for these thoughts.

@sharksworld my unsolicited analysis.

1. @JohnSmit123 inherited a union that had an excellent 1st team squad. But the squad was ageing.
2. As a result of fairly consistent first team performance it was remarkably difficult for young players to break through.
3. Also, there was a conservative approach to young player development. Extended runs for those players was non existent.
4. The Sharks have never (bar a couple exceptions) focused on developing age group squads. Rather targeted positions.
5. This has been averagely successful when you’re losing a couple senior players a year.
6. Long term it’s a disaster when you lose bulk senior players and you lose a ton of young players who would be good if they play.
7. We suffered a massive brain drain. We’ve been denuded of a general squad. 2015 is year 1 of trying to deal with this.
8. In terms of coaching. It was the right time for John Plumtree to go. He had taken us where he could.
9. It was a massive mistake to fire Jake [White] primarily for a group of senior players who wanted out anyway.
10. It meant we had a group of players who (including Brenden Venter) had played under 4 different coaching styles #confusion
11. That may be why a fairly good group of players looks average in comparison to players of similar abilities. BUT…
12. Those WP players have played more together. and we’re coached by Dobson at age group level.
13. So where are we? I think we have recruited well for next year. I am concerned about lock (and hooker but mainly lock)
14. There is also a cadre of young players coming through that have huge potential. They NEED to continue playing. Just play.
15. But this process of specific position development needs to change. To be fair I think they’ve realized this.
16. In conclusion. We need to take it for the next month. We need to find a head coach but NOT fire GG. Need continuity.
17. Also please lord can we be delivered a lock though. Two would be nice.



164 Comments

  • 9. It was a massive mistake to fire Jake [White] primarily for a group of senior players who wanted out anyway.

    Rob this is the first time I have seen you state this version of the narrative. Does this mean that you agree that is how it went down? Or still more to the story that you can’t share?

  • Comment 1, posted at 15.09.15 09:16:10 by Seth101 Reply
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  • I agree that the most important thing right now is to find a head coach, however I highly doubt we can get anyone of the quality we desperately need.

  • Comment 2, posted at 15.09.15 09:19:10 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 1) : bear in mind this is not what I wrote, I’m simply sharing another’s point of view on this.

  • Comment 3, posted at 15.09.15 09:25:10 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 1) : The dissatisfactoin with Jake went deeper than just the du Plessis brothers, though – that much I can confirm.

    This one point of the analysis is the one I have the most difficulty with. I am not a Jake White fan, but you can’t argue with his win ratio versus Gold’s.

  • Comment 4, posted at 15.09.15 09:26:32 by robdylan Reply
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  • This “8. In terms of coaching. It was the right time for John Plumtree to go. He had taken us where he could.” and this “1. @JohnSmit123 inherited a union that had an excellent 1st team squad. But the squad was ageing.” Shows to me that JS did not have a clue what he was doing when he took over. Plum may have taken us to where he could, but with the players at our disposal, and a coach like Plum available and locked into contract, the right thing to do was to tweaking things instead of outright getting rid of him. Build on what you have instead of breaking everything outright and having to rebuild totally again. This is exactly why NZ is so goo at what they do, and the Crusaders, they have a proper follow on plan instead of breaking everything and having to totally rebuild everything from start.

  • Comment 5, posted at 15.09.15 09:28:57 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • I just want the Sharks to play proper rugby for a change. I don’t know how long it’s been since the Sharks played a match that I enjoyed to watch. Everything is a struggle. Even getting the ball with oodles of space is a struggle. Passes going to the right is passed on the left shoulder and behind players. Players run across the field eating all the space. Support runners run too flat making a good pass impossible. It’s excruciating watching my team struggle like this… Not to mention that we can’t get our set pieces up to standard.

    I know we’re going through a bit of a difficult time, but I don’t get why the team can’t just do the basics. At least make clean passes, at least produce a solid scrum and at clean up the mess at line-out time.

  • Comment 6, posted at 15.09.15 09:34:29 by Letgo Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 4) : Look I am sure it probably was more than two guys not liking him, but I do believe it was purely player dissatisfaction. Whether it be two or all of them I don’t think it is a good enough reason to fire him.
    At the end of the day these guys are employees, and whether or not they like their boss is irrelevant as long as they still perform, which they were.

    Looking at where we are now, he would have had to do a hell of a lot worse then what I assume he did to justify being fired, in my opinion.

  • Comment 7, posted at 15.09.15 09:34:47 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 5) : Compare apples with apples,John Smit never took over from Plumtree he took over from Brian van Zyl.
    When John Smit arrived Brendan Venter was already ensconced as minister without portfolio,and king maker.I doubt very much it was John Smit on his own who got rid of Plumtree.He might have pulled the trigger but some one else was the spotter and set the sights.

  • Comment 8, posted at 15.09.15 09:37:28 by The hound Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 6) : You have to ask your self are these players actually buying into Gold? That’s normally this biggest obstacle for any coach if to get the team to believe in him.
    We saw what happened in 2013 when the Sharks believed in BV. Same can be said about JW. As a players if you pitch for practice and don’t buy into the coach and believe in what he says then you might as well go play somewhere else.

  • Comment 9, posted at 15.09.15 09:38:34 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • The comment about locks applies equally to hooker and tight head in my view. Our current group looks very thin and it’s a real problem. You can hire and fire all the coaches you want but if your front 5 is weak, forget it. The loss of PSdT and the Dups could mean that the next superrugby season is horrendous at scrum time and therefore elsewhere.

    Also is our conditioning up to it? I think this is an underrated reason why the Sharks have under performed. We can’t play 80mins of rugby.

  • Comment 10, posted at 15.09.15 09:39:19 by MikeSebMatt Reply

    MikeSebMattCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 6) : 12 July 2014, Stormers 10–34 Sharks at Newlands. The last truly enjoyable game we played.

  • Comment 11, posted at 15.09.15 09:41:52 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @MikeSebMatt (Comment 10) : We don’t have any Grunt left in our pack. Dont be surprised to see the Sharks last on the log next season S15 or what ever its going to be.

  • Comment 12, posted at 15.09.15 09:42:32 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 8) : Did I ever say he took over from Plum? huh?

  • Comment 13, posted at 15.09.15 09:44:26 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • Thats a pretty damn good summary Rob, and pretty accurate.
    As it says 2015 is year 1 of the shite hitting the fan basically.
    Im def not a fan of a rugby man as CEO but in his defense Smit arrived and was handed a Union that had lost its stadium sponsor (Mr price), Kit Sponsor (Reebok, Maxed), serious financial mismanagement, a senior team coach that had become a bit stale and a core group of senior players that had to an extent created a laager. So not the easiest.

  • Comment 14, posted at 15.09.15 09:45:17 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Seth101 (Comment 7) : not just players. Coaches and backroom staff too

  • Comment 15, posted at 15.09.15 09:46:53 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 9) : “As a players if you pitch for practice and don’t buy into the coach and believe in what he says then you might as well go play somewhere else.”

    Nail on the head.

  • Comment 16, posted at 15.09.15 09:47:31 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 15) : In my book literally all that matters is the on-field results, and he was getting them. A hell of a lot more than can be said for the current ‘leadership’.

  • Comment 17, posted at 15.09.15 09:50:48 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 7) : Taking the emotion out of the departure of Jake White and putting aside whether we as fans liked him or not, we are still left with another interesting question.

    Jake and the Sharks made it clear from the start that this was a two-year stint. With that in mind was the inevitable being delayed? Had Jake stuck around would we simply be facing the same problems later on down the line?

    I guess it probably all depends on how serious Jake was about putting the ‘structures’ in place that were continually being reported on during last year’s CC. Was he really doing that or was it simply a case of PR spin.

    I have a feeling there’s just too much we don’t know to really form a cohesive picture of things the Sharks are getting wrong and right.

  • Comment 18, posted at 15.09.15 09:51:56 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 12) : We lack attitude…I remember when the Sharks took the field in that quarter final vs. the Reds (2012), and our boys walked out there as if they own that place – I could just tell that our boys would win that day.

    Now, they run onto Kings Park as if they’re on an opposition field, acting like unwanted guests in their own house….where is that “harde gat houding”?

  • Comment 19, posted at 15.09.15 09:54:09 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 15) : Nobody enjoys being told that they’re rubbish, but by the look of things, White wasn’t far off.

  • Comment 20, posted at 15.09.15 09:55:59 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 19) : Its the self doubt in the players. It all stems from leadership…yes Wentzel is captain but if he was injured who else would captain? would be a serious head scratcher. and thats just it, there no leaders in the side. No guys to stand up and say come on guys lets do this, lets get stuck in. They all meek and mild or kids.

  • Comment 21, posted at 15.09.15 09:59:12 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 18) : I think the biggest issue with JW was and for a matter of fact any other coach current and future is that he needs to be able to pick his own support staff.

    @FireTheLooser (Comment 19) : I have a feeling we don’t have enough harde gatte around to make us a tough prospect in the near future. who knows may Willie’s attitude from the back will filter down to the pack :)

  • Comment 22, posted at 15.09.15 10:00:08 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 22) : Willie must really regret his move by now. Probably got his agent looking at ways to get out of the contract.

  • Comment 23, posted at 15.09.15 10:05:03 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 23) : on that point, the Sharks are starting yet again their Super title on the back foot. How many players will be coming back from Japan? just to miss the whole pre-season. Who ever is allowing this needs to be fired.

  • Comment 24, posted at 15.09.15 10:07:35 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 16) : I wish I could have been a fly on the wall during saterday’s half time talk. I’m sure something had to happen during that half time for the team to have capitulated in such a bad way. Because it really looked like the players did not want to be on the field after the break. As I believe it has something to do with this statement, it seems like the players are’nt playing for the coach.

  • Comment 25, posted at 15.09.15 10:09:32 by KingRiaan Reply

    KingRiaanTeam captain
     
  • I would start putting more responsibility on the shoulders of the Du Prees twins, Thomas and Esterhuizen. Four youngsters who don’t shy away from conflict.

  • Comment 26, posted at 15.09.15 10:10:19 by Bayshark Reply

    BaysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 15) : I think we are over simplifying a very complex situation.
    The problem goes back to Pieter de Villiers insecurity when he took over as the Bok coach,he realised that he needed John Smit back as his captain if he was ever going to be able to control the Boks.
    To do this he not only had to lure him out of his lucrative pre retirement gig at Sracens but get him back playing rugby in South Africa.In those days SARU stipulated that only local based players were eligible for the Boks
    Therefore the Sharks were ordered to take John back.This did not suit the Sharks,Plumtree and most importantly Bismark and Jannie .What followed was a tragedy as they tried to convert John into a prop.
    He was forced to put on weight and into a lot of undignified things that a World Cup winning captain should never have been forced into.
    He took it but the atmosphere must have been toxic.
    After the disastrous World Cup,lots of people blamed our failure on John.
    So when Steven Saad dropped the bombshell and cleared out the entire top Management tier at the Sharks and brought back John not as the returning captain or the coach but as the C.E.O the disruption was enormous.
    Plum had to go he wouldn’t have wanted to stay under John.
    Bismark and Jannie were by now too powerful to get rid of but nobody else wanted them,and this was the root of where we are are today in a much simplified version.

  • Comment 27, posted at 15.09.15 10:11:13 by The hound Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 24) : Without the Japan deals, I think we would have lost a lot more players.

  • Comment 28, posted at 15.09.15 10:11:54 by KingRiaan Reply

    KingRiaanTeam captain
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 24) : This problem is not one that only the Sharks have.
    You can’t just stop it, you either lose players part time to Japan, or forever to Europe because the Rand is worthless.

  • Comment 29, posted at 15.09.15 10:12:13 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 28) : Yup.

  • Comment 30, posted at 15.09.15 10:12:59 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Bayshark (Comment 26) : It would be a big burden for guys still learning their trade. Those guys just need to be playing their game and not concerned about other factors. Yes they could be leaders but id prefer to just see them play carefree

  • Comment 31, posted at 15.09.15 10:13:10 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • And add into the mix Pat, Marcelle, Willie, Connie and things start looking up. That being said where do we find 3 locks and 2 hookers? Lewis really looked the real deal but seems to be injury prone.

    The biggest step forward would be a good coach. I remember reading that an announcement would be made to this effect after the world cup!

  • Comment 32, posted at 15.09.15 10:16:06 by Bayshark Reply

    BaysharkCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Seth101 (Comment 1) : I’m just glad that people finally realise getting rid of Jake was a blunder of note. Jake would have left us in a better state and would have been able to attract and retain top top players. Water under the bridge now. The question is what do we need to do to give the coaching market the confidence that we will do things differently and that there is a real commitment to turn the corner. First would be to support the new coach fully. Meaning that the guy must come with his own coaches so as to limit conflict and assistant coaches revolt. Players need to realize that this is their job.

  • Comment 33, posted at 15.09.15 10:24:04 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • I’m still unclear as to why there is a belief that Gold will make a good DoR?

  • Comment 34, posted at 15.09.15 10:28:28 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 33) : Yeh i def think a coach with the authority to bring or select his assistants is a key step. a 3yr deal minimum is also required.

  • Comment 35, posted at 15.09.15 10:29:53 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 34) : I think he deserves a chance to at least try

  • Comment 36, posted at 15.09.15 10:31:50 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 36) : Based on what?

    I hate sounding like a stuck record, but his coaching history shows in no uncertain terms that he is a very average coach, and also couldn’t hack it as DoR at Bath….now he has to be tasked with rebuilding a once great union from the base up (not sure how much of the work will be down to him and how much of it will be up to Smit – suppose they’ll work with each other – or he’ll merely execute Smit’s vision).

  • Comment 37, posted at 15.09.15 10:35:41 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 37) : Well i think based on the fact that we cant really afford both financially and in terms of image to fire him now. Being a good on field coach doesnt translate to DOR success, different roles. I would think that a guy who is a good on field coach would hate the admin work of DOR and get frustrated and hence not do the greatest job. The environment at Bath and here at the Sharks is different…i guess im all for giving a guy a chance- especially as his work cannot directly influence the field performances, well it shouldnt. Trust me Gold as DOR isnt the big issue. Finding a coach willing to get involved in the current Sharks setup is the big problem

  • Comment 38, posted at 15.09.15 10:46:23 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 27) :

    This is the closest analysis of the situation I have seen on this site.

    You basically closed/changed/disrupted (choose your own adjective) your union structures (and most importantly, IP or intellectual property these guys had) from the board room, right through senior coaching, recruitment, academy and junior HP in 12 months and less.

    It is why I said, simply looking at replacing the coach won’t change anything – what you are seeing now (in the senior team) is the result of the systems that support it.

  • Comment 39, posted at 15.09.15 10:49:18 by Morné Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 4) : Jeepers, even his own son has / had serious issues with him – from a coaching and personal level.

  • Comment 40, posted at 15.09.15 10:54:34 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 37) : I see no value in bringing in coaching team number 5. Particularly considering options for DoR out there are non existent currently.

    We’re in this now; lets bring in a head coach, allow GG to revert to this DoR role and see where we are in a year.

    Smit and GG should though outline some short/medium/long term goals.

  • Comment 41, posted at 15.09.15 10:59:05 by yonbas Reply

    Under 19 player
     
  • My addittional points
    “Durban – A staggering 227 years of rugby coaching, managerial and administrative experience has been lost to the Sharks since the change of leadership from former chief executive Brian van Zyl to former Bok captain John Smit.”

    THE DEPARTED:

    l Brian van Zyl: Former chief executive – 20 years

    l John Plumtree: Former coach – 7 years

    l Garth Giles: Director of coaching – 19 years

    l Hans Scriba: Academy MD – 22 years

    l Rudolf Straeuli: Sharks communications manager – 13 years

    l Colin Heard: KZN Rugby Union and Sharks general manager – 16 years

    l Paul Ackerman: KZNRU Referee – 22 years

    l Clinton Isaacs: Technical analyst – 15 years

    l Swys de Bruin: Academy coach – 12 years

    l Hugh Reece-Edwards: Sharks assistant coach – 8 years

    l Grant Bashford: Sharks assistant coach – 7 years

    l Megan Harris: Public relations manager –

    15 years

    l Piet Strydom: Admin manager – 20 years

    l Gavin Melville: Junior Procurement – 17 years

    l Roelof Kotze: Academy manager – 14 years

    The full article can be read here http://www.iol.co.za/dailynews/news/sharks-mass-exodus-denied-1.1653088#.Vfe8JFV97IU

  • Comment 42, posted at 15.09.15 11:00:39 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 39) : It sure would make us all a ton more patient if Smit actually came out and mapped his road to recovery for us all to know that there is actually a plan being implemented.

    But when nothing is being said, then the firing Gold is the only visible solution to the current mess – that and the fact that he has never achieved anything as a coach….to me he’s very similar to Ludeke.

  • Comment 43, posted at 15.09.15 11:01:57 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 42) : …now just need the list of whom they were replaced by.

  • Comment 44, posted at 15.09.15 11:04:43 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • Just look at what the academy lost, coupled with junior procurement…
    Hans Scriba: Academy MD – 22 years
    Swys de Bruin: Academy coach – 12 years
    Roelof Kotze: Academy manager – 14 years
    Gavin Melville: Junior Procurement – 17 years

    :sad:

  • Comment 45, posted at 15.09.15 11:15:27 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 42) :

    Finally, you are nailing the actual cause. From here, start fixing that (and stop wanting to fire every oke and his brother)

  • Comment 46, posted at 15.09.15 11:36:39 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 46) : Yep the horse has bolted, time to start building. Personally Im so pissed off that the horse was allowed to bolt in the first place.

    Pity that real life doesnt have system restore points.

  • Comment 47, posted at 15.09.15 11:43:26 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 47) :

    Hindsight and all that.

  • Comment 48, posted at 15.09.15 11:48:50 by Morné Reply
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    MornéTeam captain
     
  • I can sort of see Smit realising that a solution what required for the aging talent which is why he needed Jake White to replace Garth Giles… what i don’t understand is Smit made out that White was replacing Plumbtree. Then White moves to DOR and he is then removed along head coach Brad Macleod-Henderson and then Smit decides the Sharks needs a new DOR so he gets Gold but again Smit makes out that Gold was filling the coaching roll…

    is there no one in a Human Resource roll at the sharks that can see we have “x” amount of vacant positions in the company and we need “x” (or “x” + “y”) people to fill these vacancies and then hire horse to do horse work. because it looks like they are hiring horses signing the contract and telling them please be a jockey and horse for 6 months and we will get a new jockey later.

  • Comment 49, posted at 15.09.15 11:48:58 by Warren Harvey Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 47) : These guys were so entrenched in the old way of doing things, I don’t think it was viable to rebuild the Sharks structures with any of them.

    By all accounts, Smit had to do some serious damage control – lack of funds through poor sponsorship deals, very poor relations between the Sharks and UKZN, very poor relations between the Sharks and KZN.

    Nothing and nobody could ever survive in the ever changing rugby climate, transitioning from amateur to pro dating all the way back to 1992.

  • Comment 50, posted at 15.09.15 11:52:41 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 47) : :lol:

  • Comment 51, posted at 15.09.15 11:58:10 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 18) :

    Jake was with the Brumbies for 2 years and they are a changed union even though he also left early. He used the same players, got Larkham as his assistant with Laurie Fisher as the forwards coach and basically fixed a broken union. He got to the semi’s both times and just lost in the last year he was there… not to mention that after he left, his assistants took over from him and just continued on the same upward trend he left them on. It’s two years since Jake left the Brumbies, but they are still in a strong position.

    Not to mention that it’s not all players and management that is unhappy with him, because plenty of guys that worked and played under him in the past are flocking to Montpellier to work with him again.

  • Comment 52, posted at 15.09.15 12:02:18 by Letgo Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 50) : So we are better off now? Not in my book.

    Maybe some rebuilding was necessary – it always is, but that doesnt mean you have to breakdown the walls and chisel away at the foundations as well.

    Again just look at these academy related names and think back to what their legacy at the Sharks has been..

    Just look at what the academy lost, coupled with junior procurement…
    Hans Scriba: Academy MD – 22 years
    Swys de Bruin: Academy coach – 12 years
    Roelof Kotze: Academy manager – 14 years
    Gavin Melville: Junior Procurement – 17 years

    Why them aswell.

    De Bruyn should be coaching the Sharks.

  • Comment 53, posted at 15.09.15 12:03:40 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 20) : Had to laugh at this! I am sure JW must also be javing a quiet smile

  • Comment 54, posted at 15.09.15 12:08:34 by Kabouter Reply

    KabouterCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 53) : I have no idea, nor is anyone speaking out – which merely leaves us with speculation.

    As I said, there seems to have been a need to restructure everything at the Sharks in order for us to get into the 21st century…so I’d assume these guys were seen as millstones, keeping us from truly moving forward.

  • Comment 55, posted at 15.09.15 12:09:19 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 53) :

    People leave and people retire. It is not to say there is or was something sinister going on. Hans got a great gig at SARU, Swys a senior coaching job at the Lions, Erasmus SA Schools coach, etc etc.

    It just so happened almost all of your structures were hit at the same time or within a period of a year. It is a lot of IP to lose in a very short time.

    Point is, fix that (not that I think it is not currently being addressed) and the rest will fix itself.

  • Comment 56, posted at 15.09.15 12:09:51 by Morné Reply
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    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 42) : Geez I never knew it was that bad.

  • Comment 57, posted at 15.09.15 12:17:59 by Uli Boelie Reply
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    Uli BoelieTeam captain
     
  • The fact that JS is still getting good sponsorship deals and that presumably the Sharks are in a better financial position now than before he stepped in as CEO, means that we already addressed one thing that puts us in a position to address the rest.

    At least we know, or my feeling (since John started) has been that we have the means to recruit the guys we need.

    And the whole – no one wants to touch the Sharks thing, is something I still can’t believe. I rather feel like the people we would like to recruit may not have been available … this is probably why an announcement of new Head Coach seems likely to happen after the RWC.

    I used seems, presume, feel and opinion a lot, so basically this is just my way of trying to be positive.

    If there was a clean-out and our finances are looking up, then at least we can properly fill these positions again.

    Maybe I should just take a break from the Sharks for a while. Who will send me an email when things are looking like it is turning around again? ;-)

  • Comment 58, posted at 15.09.15 12:22:08 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    LetgoAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 4) : I have heard a few times that the du plesis brothers were some of the moving force to get White out… :shock: then why have the brothers been lured to Montpellier by a Coach that they cannot tolerate? I mean if they were not happy working under White in Natal why travel to France after you play a hand in removing him so you can be coached by him

    I just feel that there is so much conjecture in the air and every one is just jumping on board that the true problem is being left to fester… and I want to say I dont think John Smit is the problem but something is wrong high up in the sharks and there is way to much political movement inside the organisation which is reflecting in the team on the field. The entire organisation needs to put the team first (and not just the players in the squad but the team as a brand)

  • Comment 59, posted at 15.09.15 12:23:01 by Warren Harvey Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 58) : If only there was a PR Manager or a Sharks Communications manager role filled up then the fans could be told whats happening instead of the standard Thursday/Friday release “This weekend we will play the intended sharks brand of rugby, it will be awesome again” then this is followed by the Monday release “Oops it went wrong, I will take it on my shoulders…maybe next time”

  • Comment 60, posted at 15.09.15 12:33:48 by Warren Harvey Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @Warren Harvey (Comment 60) : but I continue to back this young team and eventually they will click and play some good rugby.

    What was that famous quote about the definition of insanity?

  • Comment 61, posted at 15.09.15 12:40:22 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @Morné (Comment 56) : This is true but there is no way that that amount of IP, who are settled would just start upping sticks and start moving on without a good motivating factor. Something was the catalyst for this.

    Anyway time to look to the future.

  • Comment 62, posted at 15.09.15 12:42:58 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 58) : Looks like the majority of their supporters are already taking that break – which aint going to please the sponsors.

  • Comment 63, posted at 15.09.15 12:45:31 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @Warren Harvey (Comment 59) : By all accounts the only reason the Doep brothers signed for another team was because White was coaching at the Sharks, White then left the Sharks getting a stint at Montpellier and the Doep brothers tried their damndest to get out of that contract, hoping to stay with the now Jake free Sharks.

  • Comment 64, posted at 15.09.15 12:49:33 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 52) : I don’t know how useful a comparison with the Brumbies is to be honest. Jake got to pick assistants there and seem to enjoy way more support from players and staff.

    So without those fundamental things in place at the Sharks, would things have been markedly different had Jake stayed on for an extra year or was he on a hiding to nothing from the start? I don’t know but it’s a fascinating question and as pointed out in my earlier post, it shows how little we actually know about the inner workings of the union.

    As other have pointed out: Gary Gold, if you want to enjoy Sharksworld support, drop the spin and start talking about your long-term plans.

  • Comment 65, posted at 15.09.15 13:02:02 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    vanmartinAssistant coach
     
  • Gary Gold is like a 2nd-hand dealer. No matter how crap the product might be, he will sell it to you. Youth, oldies, experience – not to blame. You dont need to be a decent coach to see there’s a coaching problem. Small things that you expect to see aint there. Things like for example rucking – besides urgency at cleaning out (which is more players responsibility), the positioning to make the cleanout is poor and they dont cleanout beyond the ruck (legally ofcourse). The same with running angles – they spread the ball through the hands while mostly running sideways, no threat whatsoever to the opposition defence. Its as if the team is copy and pasting what they do in training sessions (when there is opposing threat). Its should be no surprise that guys like Esterhuizen, du Preez twins does well charging the advantage line because they are built like that. Take the rest of the tight5 and backline and its seems as though they keep running into a brick wall. I believe there’s no lack of effort on the players part, but the technique in doing alot of things is poor and you cant even talk about ‘execution’ when there isn’t really a clear plan to begin with. The right coaching will train these habbits out. GOLD OUT!

  • Comment 66, posted at 15.09.15 13:11:19 by DeanOwens Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 65) :

    No one will succeed if they aren’t backed by management and player personnel.

    When players and management started complaining about Jake, John should have backed him. If I were John, I would have backed Jake, because I believe Jake would have been able to get results.

    Also, if these people who started to complain realized that they may not get their way, some may have just left quietly, while others may have just kept quiet and the results (which I believe there would have been) would then have changed their attitude. Everyone likes success, if they realised Jake’s methods were working, they may have changed their minds about him.

    If you don’t want to be coached by a winning coach and rather just have your way, you should leave. That’s how I feel about it. In fact, I would love to know if some of these “complainers” are still around, because I feel like if they are, they are part of the current problem.

  • Comment 67, posted at 15.09.15 13:15:38 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    LetgoAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 42) :What do most of those people have in common ,they were apointed by B.J van Zyl.

  • Comment 68, posted at 15.09.15 13:16:49 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • @robdylan (Comment 61) : If you want to know if we are doing OK – go look at the Lions 2012 results (year before they dropped out of Super rugby – might be 2013). Thats the true comparison. Financially in the same position. Lost some big names. Building from scratch.

    What we are desparately in need of is a full time head coach. Gary gold, i dont believe has the characteristics to be that person BUT he hasa good rugby brain and the management skills to make a good DOR

    I agree, player wise Hooker and Lock. I definitely give the sharks their dues for persisting with Monde as a starter. If he doesnt work out then theyve given him a fair shot.

  • Comment 69, posted at 15.09.15 13:16:57 by byron Reply

    byronSuper Rugby player
     
  • @DeanOwens (Comment 66) :

    I have to agree. I feel strongly about it that Gold is really not a very good coach. Sure he should have been DOR. But I have concerns about elevating a guy to DOR, who cannot get a CC team to implement the basics.

    It concerns me that he seems to be out of his depth, even as a CC coach.

  • Comment 70, posted at 15.09.15 13:19:26 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    LetgoAssistant coach
     
  • By the way where’s Tonderai Chanvanga? Last time I checked he was pretty good last year, certainly better than Mjekevu.

  • Comment 71, posted at 15.09.15 13:20:44 by DeanOwens Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @byron (Comment 69) :

    On what evidence do you come to the conclusion that Gary Gold – “has a good rugby brain?

    I would say he is intelligent and pretty good at PR, but by evidence of what his CC team and SR team before that, has been doing, he really has no clue about even the very basics of rugby – unless you believe he just doesn’t know how to get the players to do the things he wants them to do?

  • Comment 72, posted at 15.09.15 13:23:10 by Letgo Reply
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    LetgoAssistant coach
     
  • Must say I agree on almost all the points he raised. I totally disagree about JW and I for one am glad he’s gone. Second concern for me is not only at hooker and lock. Sharks needs depth from 1-5 as only Beast is really (at the moment) top quality. That said I really hope some of the other props step up and start performing especially Adriaanse and Thomas at tight head!!!

  • Comment 73, posted at 15.09.15 13:25:13 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @byron (Comment 69) :

    What you are saying is, you believe Gary knows whats wrong, just don’t know how to get the guys to actually do what he wants them to do?

  • Comment 74, posted at 15.09.15 13:25:48 by Letgo Reply
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    LetgoAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 68) : Is that a bad or good thing?

  • Comment 75, posted at 15.09.15 13:25:55 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • @DeanOwens (Comment 71) : injured again and most probably retired due to the injury.

  • Comment 76, posted at 15.09.15 13:26:49 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 70) : These arent new problems at the Sharks..or at least we have short memories from the last CC. Last year we couldnt catch, tackle or ruck either. Super rugby is masked by the Boks but when it comes to CC these guys couldnt do it last year and they still cant. Lack of backline moves and running lines has been a Sharks problem for years. By all means blame Gold for lack of game plan and communication this year…but poor handling, tackling, rucking etc were there long before he arrived.

  • Comment 77, posted at 15.09.15 13:29:45 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 64) : But the numbers/Dates do not add up.

    In Dec 2014 SA was reporting that White signed a six month contract to Manager of Montpellier, then the 30/3/2015 he had his contract extended to 2017. a little later 18th May 2015 it was reported that the Dups were set to sign (I.E. not yet signed) and on the 17 June 2015 it was reported that Montpellier had signed the Dups for a 3 year contract. I know that when things are reported after the fact… but if the reports are true then the Dups signed between the 18/5/2015 and 17/6/2015, one to two months after the extension of White at montpellier. I imagine that if they had a issue with White here it would raise a “white” flag [Sorry I could not resist] and they would look at one of the other 13 top French sides.

    :???: my BS monitor is blaring :?: :?: :?:

  • Comment 78, posted at 15.09.15 13:31:03 by Warren Harvey Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • I don’t buy the Dupe brothers ,Jake rift.It just doesn’t make sense.Jake gave them both their Bok debut,albeit off the bench to John and Os in the 2007 world cup.
    First thing Jake did as a coach at the Sharks was to appoint Bismark captain.They both end up at Montpellier with him and long after that dust has settled the third member of the Bethlehem Mafia,Frans Steyn signs as well.Jake chose him as a 20 year old for his Bok team.
    So what were the grounds for discontentment.

  • Comment 79, posted at 15.09.15 13:31:38 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • @The hound (Comment 79) : Mayb their is discontentment but the flashing lights of the Euro overshadow that discontentment.

  • Comment 80, posted at 15.09.15 13:33:37 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 75) : Depends on which side of the fence you looking at it.But I would say if you have a problem with BJ,well then you might just…….

  • Comment 81, posted at 15.09.15 13:33:40 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • @Letgo (Comment 67) : We would have won or at least played in this year’s SR final with Jake.

  • Comment 82, posted at 15.09.15 13:55:11 by GreatSharksays Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 79) : The rift started when Jake realized his assistants where not at the level required for SR, even CC. He began to do everything himself and got no support from John. If u remember well, John was all over the country cycling away. Assistants were unhappy even questioned the amount of training that guys were getting.

  • Comment 83, posted at 15.09.15 13:59:10 by GreatSharksays Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @Warren Harvey (Comment 78) : Not sure of the timeline but I do remember when they signed this was gone into and it seems as if they did sign or at least get a huge cash incentive before White was linked to Montpellier.

  • Comment 84, posted at 15.09.15 14:02:40 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 72) : Head Coach WP, Springboks, London Irish. You dont work for the teams he has and be useless at the same times.

  • Comment 85, posted at 15.09.15 14:07:00 by byron Reply

    byronSuper Rugby player
     
  • @The hound (Comment 79) :I have pondered the same thing regarding the Doep bros. Steyn / White have always been very loyal to each other.

  • Comment 86, posted at 15.09.15 14:08:58 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 74) : Gary Gold is a great coach to an established team that needs direction and planning. I dont believe he is very good at working with younger inexperienced teams, developing skills etc.

  • Comment 87, posted at 15.09.15 14:09:43 by byron Reply

    byronSuper Rugby player
     
  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 82) : And u know that how?

  • Comment 88, posted at 15.09.15 14:09:48 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Warren Harvey (Comment 78) : @The hound (Comment 79) : I totally agree with both your points, I still say the rift was from the youngsters in the team (Who now cant man up in a game against the Kings) as well as the assistant coaches at the time.

  • Comment 89, posted at 15.09.15 14:25:30 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli BoelieTeam captain
     
  • @The hound (Comment 79) : to add to that, those are the 3 players who gave it their all in each game the sharks payed with JW as coach… If they didn’t like him they would surely not have had the motivation to play as hard as they did in 2014 S15.

  • Comment 90, posted at 15.09.15 14:28:48 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli BoelieTeam captain
     
  • …so at the end of the day, if we are to rely on all the foundation work and backroom structures to be implemented, we’re looking at a 2 to 3 year turnaround period? :roll:

    …and we need to rely on GG to make said turnaround a reality – forgive me for not jumping out of my skin with excitement.

  • Comment 91, posted at 15.09.15 14:31:19 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 89) : And Smit decided to back his schoolboy-and age-group assistant coaches instead of his world cup winning DoR….clearly Smit made the right choice :roll:

  • Comment 92, posted at 15.09.15 14:33:51 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @byron (Comment 85) : check out his results dude. Average at best, most often below par.

    As head coach of London Irish for two seasons Gold achieved 8th and then 10th place finishes (out of 12 teams).

    For information, the very season after Gold left, London Irish catapulted up to finish in 3rd place on the table.

    According to wiki Gold was appointed head coach at WP in July 2007 and was only head coach of WP for one Currie Cup – 2007. Western Province finished 5th and did not qualify for the semi finals…

    In 2012 Gold had a short stint with Newcastle Falcons as their head coach. Newcastle Falcons were in the relegation zone when Gold was appointed and he could not do anything to change that – Newcastle were eventually relegated…

    Gold was made head coach of Bath in 2012 and in the 12/13 Premiership he coached the team to 7th place (out of 12). Played 22, won 10, drawn 1, lost 11). He was apparently shifted to Director of Rugby after what are described as “lacklustre” results, and next season was shifted out of the club “at the behest” of the club’s owner. (In the next two seasons after Gold was let go Bath went 5th and then 2nd in the table).

    Gold’s time as forwards coach of the Boks under Peter de Villiers? Well, these were the days when the Bok scrum (with Smit) were in turbo-reverse with the team supposedly coached by the senior players… so I’m not sure how much credit is due to Gold, if any, for this part of his CV…

    Not very impressive, is he?

  • Comment 93, posted at 15.09.15 14:37:04 by Orlok Tsubodai Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @Orlok Tsubodai (Comment 93) : U sound like you have a personal gripe with Gold as the only comment you make on this blog is Gold Out. U offer nothing else. Im sure u are perfect at everything you do but not everyone is and i believe in giving a guy a chance. This is sport not science..nothing is guaranteed and there many many factors at play.

  • Comment 94, posted at 15.09.15 14:45:07 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 89) : @FireTheLooser (Comment 92) : It would also mean that the senior players sat impassive on the sidelines accepting the mayhem that was being sown. Not in a hundred years would they do that unless they agreed with it.

  • Comment 95, posted at 15.09.15 14:47:06 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • Rob, Its time for your next article….
    “How do we get out of here”

  • Comment 96, posted at 15.09.15 14:50:57 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 95) : I’m not necesarily buying the whole junior players issue…but there could always have been another rift – juniors + ass. coaches vs. Vrystaat Mafia + JW.

    Johnie Smit clearly deciding: Vrystaat se gat!

    ..and here we are :smile:

  • Comment 97, posted at 15.09.15 14:55:39 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 95) : Agree can’t see that happening in any rugby team in the world.Jake seemed to me to bend over backwards for the Bethlehem boys,he shafted Keegan,who was Venter’s captain when we won the Currie Cup.Maybe the rift was between Jake and his Bethlehem mafia,and John and Venter.

  • Comment 98, posted at 15.09.15 14:56:01 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • @The hound (Comment 98) : The fact that JW rubbed someone the wrong way and pissed them off doesnt surprise me. Who it was and why is anyone’s guess- could have been numerous things. I also think he came to Durbs in a bit of a negative mindset after being passed over for the Ozzie gig. I really do think there were a lot of factors at play. What im interested to see is how long his Montpelier stint lasts- especially if there are a few coaches axed after RWC

  • Comment 99, posted at 15.09.15 15:05:29 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 94) : quite an emotional outburst from you. Are you ok?

  • Comment 100, posted at 15.09.15 15:15:11 by Orlok Tsubodai Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @Orlok Tsubodai (Comment 100) : haha think this is your first post not saying fire Gold…

  • Comment 101, posted at 15.09.15 15:29:02 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • Ask John Smit!!!!!!!!!!

  • Comment 102, posted at 15.09.15 15:32:29 by Leon Schrenk Reply

    Currie Cup player
     
  • As John Smit vir Stonehouse of Deans aanstel en los om hulle eie hulpafrigters en spelers te kry sal ek my woorde terug trek en John nog ‘n kans gee maar dis dit. Tans is hy vir die Sharks soos Zuma vir SA.

  • Comment 103, posted at 15.09.15 15:45:19 by Leon Schrenk Reply

    Currie Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 101) : GOLD OUT!!! There happy now? ; )

  • Comment 104, posted at 15.09.15 15:53:53 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 104) : hahaha all is now right with the world. disaster averted.

  • Comment 105, posted at 15.09.15 15:56:24 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @byron (Comment 87) : Seriously? How well did he do with the established group in Super Rugby this year? :roll:

  • Comment 106, posted at 15.09.15 15:56:54 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @byron (Comment 87) : Just to remind you, Gary Gold’s Sharks finished 11th, losing 9 out of 16 games. Finished second last in the South African conference, but I guess that’s an achievement to Gold because we didn’t finish last. :roll:

  • Comment 107, posted at 15.09.15 16:02:18 by Ben Reply
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    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 107) : And builds character. By the time Gary is done we will be the team with the most character of anyone. Do they make a trophy for that?

  • Comment 108, posted at 15.09.15 16:08:26 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 108) : He is building a very strong team. They need to be very strong because they need to hold up a lot of teams above them on the log. ;)

  • Comment 109, posted at 15.09.15 16:10:18 by Ben Reply
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    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 108) : But maybe Byron’s TV was upside down when he checked the final standings. Finishing 5th overall and 2nd in the SA conference isn’t all that bad. :)

  • Comment 110, posted at 15.09.15 16:11:56 by Ben Reply
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    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @byron (Comment 85) : @byron (Comment 87) :

    Fair comments. Plus he is actually a pretty likable guy. I’m actually rooting for him to succeed.

    Just very concerned about the decline in our set pieces especially.

  • Comment 111, posted at 15.09.15 16:33:52 by Letgo Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 77) :

    That’s true, although I’m not so sure it is true for the set-pieces.

  • Comment 112, posted at 15.09.15 16:35:03 by Letgo Reply
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    LetgoAssistant coach
     
  • @Seth101 (Comment 11) : for me it was the SR 2015 round 2 win against the lions in the wet in Durbs 29 – 12

  • Comment 113, posted at 15.09.15 16:37:03 by SeanJeff Reply
    Author
    SeanJeffSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Morné (Comment 39) : I disagree,the culture of the IP you talk about was wrong,the chillout culture was too ingrained and permiated all levels,hence no SR trophy,a culture change was needed,Jake was the right coach for this and I still say in times of change and uncertainty a hardcore heavyweight autocratic coach is needed ,to stabilise ,drive culture change,not to be everybodys mate,that’s what is needed at the Sharks now,a JM or RD

  • Comment 114, posted at 15.09.15 18:11:52 by benji Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Team captain
     
  • @benji (Comment 114) :

    IP does not have a culture, it is knowledge and experience.

    How you deliver it and use it creates the culture.

    On another point, I saw Ludeke being slammed quite a bit by other folks in the last couple of days – yet, he is the most successful SA Super Rugby coach (2 titles).

    I don’t know who RD is you refer to, but ever wondered if Mitchell is such a great coach why he does not have a coaching job?

  • Comment 115, posted at 15.09.15 18:25:24 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 115) : By that same logic, neither of Mallet or Venter is talented either…and we all know where Ludeke’s success came from, same place PdV’s initial success came from – the shoulders of the previous coaches.

    However, most of us will concede you have a fair bit more insight into things behind the scenes in SA…so you probably have a lot more fact to offer than our speculation.

  • Comment 116, posted at 15.09.15 18:42:33 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 116) :

    Well its two things really, either they are not rated by potential employers, or they are not interested.

    I never slam a coach or suggest he is not good enough, but the fact that they are not coaching means there is a very good reason for it.

    Also, I find the concept of a coach enjoying success because of what was done before him, against, a coach that fails miserably with a team that has been successful in recent times or just before he took over, interesting…

    For instance, is Mallet a kak coach because for 36 months he basically played the squad Carel du Plessis put together (but Carel being an absolute failure)?

  • Comment 117, posted at 15.09.15 18:49:57 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 117) : ooh now that is an intersting comparison…one which I’ve often wondered about – especially when we consider that Mallet was most successful when he just took over from Carel.

    Btw, do you know whether Carel ever coached again after the Boks…and if so, how did it go?

  • Comment 118, posted at 15.09.15 18:59:45 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 118) :

    No he did not, not professionally in any event.

    Again not trying to slam any coach, the point is coaches at this level has a far less influence on results than what people imagine – there is a hell of a lot of stuff that needs to work behind the scenes for stuff to work between those 4 lines.

  • Comment 119, posted at 15.09.15 19:11:52 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 119) : HM sure took his time setting things up at the bulls, and they endured a torid time during that set-up phase, but reaped the rewards eventually…same with Mitchel at the Lions, seemed to have done a lot for Ackerman to build on, but they too endured some sreiously rocky times.

    I just wish it would not be the case at the Sharks, but it seems to be unavoidable. Best to find another hobby whilst this mess is being sortex out I guess.

  • Comment 120, posted at 15.09.15 19:23:37 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 120) :

    160min of awesome rugby will change the feeling on this site around in 2 weeks.

    That is why we love this game, it is a great leveller.

  • Comment 121, posted at 15.09.15 20:14:53 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 121) : must say I like your insight into this and must agree with you.
    Fact is you can have the same workers but one supervisor may get them to perform better than another supervisor could. It has to do with the way you handle people and if they share your vision and passion.
    If everyone is building towards a common goal it create a better work environment and results and work performance will improve. However it only takes one or two people with bad attitudes to spoil this and it will bring down the performance of the team no matter how much the supervisor tries!!!! All of this applies to sports and coaching!!!!

  • Comment 122, posted at 15.09.15 20:42:25 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @Leon Schrenk (Comment 103) : John Smit made the worst decision any CEO could make: Bring your mates into business. Stonehouse was available and the best man to take the currie cup team forward.
    He should have employed commited players instead of his tjommies and a pro coach without any ties and treated the matter as business. This is the fallout of bad choices.
    He should man up and get Jimmy back for next year and get a SR coach and some accredited players to school the youngsters. We need to play as a team and that is what the coaching team needs to focus on. Stonehouse is brilliant at that imho

  • Comment 123, posted at 15.09.15 21:22:17 by KILLER SHARK Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    KILLER SHARKTeam captain
     
  • Thanks JD. I love engaging in the inner workings of this great game.

    I also reckon you have the right people to make this work.

    But as you mention it is about finding that balance and that is not always that easy

  • Comment 124, posted at 15.09.15 21:24:59 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 115) : Robbie Deans,why JM has no job befuddles me,but perhaps his price is to high

  • Comment 125, posted at 15.09.15 21:35:06 by benji Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • @Morné (Comment 124) : looking at other professional sports people it just seems to me as if the players that seems to enjoy what they doing is just doing better than the others.
    This is the reason why I believe that although there needs to be rules and discipline to get the best out of people you must create a friendly and fun work environment.

  • Comment 126, posted at 15.09.15 22:08:57 by JD Reply
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    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @benji (Comment 125) : ja he has a brilliant rugby mind but just maybe he can not work with players to get the best possible performances out of them?!?!?!
    Just remember a genius does not always makes a good teacher or leader.

  • Comment 127, posted at 15.09.15 22:15:26 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @Orlok Tsubodai (Comment 93) : Dig a bit deeper and you will see that london irish were legue champs or runner up and then lost 6 senior players and a major sponsor.

    With the boks he won the trinations and a tour win with the british and irish lions.

    Pretty sucessful if you ask me

  • Comment 128, posted at 15.09.15 22:22:30 by byron Reply

    byronSuper Rugby player
     
  • @byron (Comment 128) : ja boet no matter what you say some people will just call him a bad coach and call for him to be fired even though he’s not even appointed as a coach.
    Did you not know that the Sharks will become the best rugby team in the world by having a new coach and coaching structure for every new competition!!!!!!!

  • Comment 129, posted at 15.09.15 22:31:42 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @byron (Comment 128) : ok mate, you obviously have a low estimation of “success”.

  • Comment 130, posted at 15.09.15 22:39:03 by Orlok Tsubodai Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @JD (Comment 129) : please boet, stop spreading this fallacy that Gold was not appointed to ‘coach’. It has been debunked over and over again the past few days.

  • Comment 131, posted at 15.09.15 22:40:22 by Orlok Tsubodai Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • I shall paraphrase one of my most favorite writers:

    The CEO is very much a figurehead – he wields no real power whatsoever. His job is not to wield power but to draw attention away from it.

  • Comment 132, posted at 16.09.15 05:48:45 by fyndraai Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    fyndraaiTeam captain
     
  • @JD (Comment 129) : Agreed. Some just have one view, and it’s their own. I have never been a Gold fan, and disliked the dour rugby JW brought to the Sharks. That said, there are deeper underlying issues that can’t be laid at the coach’s feet.
    The Sharks feeder system isn’t working, and as someone said, they lack a Varsity Cup team to fill that void. The Varsity Cup has become immense in grooming players. Some strange appointments were made, that is true, but without knowing the reasons behind them, we can only speculate. It might have been a case of cash flow at the time. Be that as it may, constantly spewing the same vitriol over and over, without offering a plausible solution is just tedious.
    Maybe I have just learn’t with age, that we don’t live in a perfect world. Some are still very idealistic and naive, so they will beat the “mediocrity” drum ad nauseam.

  • Comment 133, posted at 16.09.15 06:46:18 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • Well I suspect Gary is going to be around come what may. For the foreseeable short term anyways. With that being said it would be nice to know there is some strategy for coaching structure and player management. The secrecy at a time like this only feeds the ridiculous and improbable theories. So John, if Gary stays what next?

  • Comment 134, posted at 16.09.15 07:35:34 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @JD (Comment 126) :

    I covered it either here or on the previous thread – 4 pillars most elite organisation has in place to create a culture of excellence.

    Two of the most important pillars for me is commonality, feeling you belong, part of something great, and accountability. When things go bad, fingers are pointed – in a healthy organisation, no fingers are pointed, folks take responsibility and that goes as much for the players as it does to the management and even board.

    I shared a story with Rob in private of a recent experience.

    In a room with about 80 individuals all involved in elite sport and elite sport organisations, one of the speakers (who was first an elite athlete and then became a manager of sorts in various elite codes) asked for individuals who believe winning at elite level is everything to raise their hands. About 10 okes raised their hands.

    He then asked who believes it is not, and that it forms part of something greater (than just winning). The rest of the room raised their hands.

    He then asked which of the individuals in the room played or competed in sport at an elite or professional level.

    Again about 10 raised their hands. He then asked for those guys and girls to keep their hands up, and only drop their hands if they believe winning isn’t everything. None of them dropped their hands, and yes, it was the same 10 that raised their hands the first time.

    He proceeded to tell the rest of the room that if you believe that winning isn’t everything at elite or pro level, you are at the wrong conference.

    To me this was not only fascinating, but one of the most important realisations of just what is wrong with our mentality and approach to sport in this country.

  • Comment 135, posted at 16.09.15 09:15:33 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 135) : Very interesting and also true. Winning today overshadows the planning for tomorrow. The beach, easy lifestyle, good pay were previous big calling cards for big name players to flock to Durban. Now its Varsity Cup exposure, High performance institute, Big money and existing quality players that attracts a player…and thats just SA. Throw in the Foreign currency, easier physical demands and the ease of travel that europe offers and its not so easy to get guys to Durbs.

  • Comment 136, posted at 16.09.15 10:11:15 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Morné (Comment 135) : The only thing wrong with that sentiment is a common definition of winning.
    Once upon a time it was about a jersey,a cup ,a medal,a knighthood, a life time of respect.
    Today in it’s true tradition it is about the accumulation of vast loads of money.
    Tiger Woods,Serena Williams, Jason Spieth at 21,Dan Carter,Lionel Messi all winners,winners of unspeakable amounts of loot.
    Then there is the second ryder,if winning is everything,then any means is justified as long as you win.
    Lance Armstrong,get where I am going.

  • Comment 137, posted at 16.09.15 10:35:37 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 137) : Great point

  • Comment 138, posted at 16.09.15 10:48:59 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    vanmartinAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 137) :

    It is not only the nature of sport (I mean they do call it competition for a reason – you compete to see who is the best) but human beings.

    There is some sort of primal force that wants us to be the best in whatever we do. Some folks feed of it, some are destroyed by it, and some will use any means (legal or not) to achieve it.

  • Comment 139, posted at 16.09.15 10:53:45 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 139) : Once upon a time when winning wasn’t everything and taking part was the main objective, factors like honour,fairness,sportsmanship,team player , had a lot to teach a person about being a better human.

  • Comment 140, posted at 16.09.15 11:03:39 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • @The hound (Comment 140) :

    I disagree, even when it was an amateur sport, playing for the jersey, you played to win in that jersey, not to lose.

    Professionalism accentuated that point of course, because today the more you win, the more money you earn – sponsorships, commercial etc.

  • Comment 141, posted at 16.09.15 11:24:45 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 121) : Unfortunately the only team wearing black jerseys who will provide 160 mins of awesome rugby this year have a little plant on their jerseys. This Sharks team looks so lost at the moment.

  • Comment 142, posted at 16.09.15 11:26:13 by Bokhoring Reply
    Administrator
    BokhoringAssistant coach
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 142) :

    I got the Sharks to win this weekend

  • Comment 143, posted at 16.09.15 11:44:33 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 143) : Thank you very much, that is just the final nail in our coffin :roll:

  • Comment 144, posted at 16.09.15 12:15:55 by Bokhoring Reply
    Administrator
    BokhoringAssistant coach
     
  • Gold shifts to DOR and gets stuck in there and we get a New Head coach with guys with
    most of the current back room staff of everitt etc
    assisting in a way that the new coach wants Sacking gary gold wont help our situation at all,
    we cant just keep changing every 8 months, give
    people a chance by the way, why is the vibe on the site about jake
    white like he was force out of the sharks ?
    I figure he came in, did a good job (i didnt agree
    with all of his ideas, but i never agree 100% with
    any coach), everyone was on him about us
    supposedly playing boring rugby, which i disagreed with, i felt it was hella entertaining
    watchin us dominate. I didnt like how he
    marginalized keagan though, and kanko played
    alot while really not exactly performing that well
    at all. And then he felt he wanted to move to montpillar
    after possibly no national team spots openned up there was talk of some older players being upset
    that he wanted them their at 8am but i doubt he was forced out, i figure he just
    went after a new challenge He is a good coach he need to sent paul willamse our way, for old
    time sack lol, that kid is so good

  • Comment 145, posted at 16.09.15 12:35:51 by revolverocelot Reply

    Team captain
     
  • @revolverocelot (Comment 145) : Im not sure how long White will stick around at Montpelier after the RWC especially if a few positions become available. Has always said he wants to do international again.

  • Comment 146, posted at 16.09.15 12:50:54 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • Only reason Jake was not a good option is because he was never going to stick around for a long time. Sharks was a stop-gap solution for him and you need someone who is willing to invest for the long run.

  • Comment 147, posted at 16.09.15 13:01:26 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 147) : The Brumbies are still reaping what he sowed. We should have held on to him for as long as we could in my opinion.

  • Comment 148, posted at 16.09.15 13:06:06 by Ben Reply
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    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 148) : Do you perhaps think that the Brumbies as a union were a lot more receptive as well as willing and able to implement whatever Jake said as opposed to the Sharks? I just get the feeling that its not that easy so change habits at the sharks

  • Comment 149, posted at 16.09.15 13:12:06 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 149) : I definitely think so. I think the senior players and John Smit were the major problems here. Jake should have been allowed his own assistants and he should have been allowed to run the show.

  • Comment 150, posted at 16.09.15 13:15:34 by Ben Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 149) : @Ben (Comment 150) : But still, I think he would only have done more good than harm the longer he stayed.

  • Comment 151, posted at 16.09.15 13:23:36 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 150) : So then do you believe that the Sharks as a union going into 2016 are any more receptive to possible change than they were in 2014 when White arrived? and if not, is it even worth our while trying to get a guy like White in to change things

  • Comment 152, posted at 16.09.15 13:23:36 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 151) : Yeh look he is a good rugby brain so im sure. But whether any of those effects would be lasting is another question

  • Comment 153, posted at 16.09.15 13:24:47 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 152) : I can tell you this much. If they aren’t going to change their ways then it doesn’t really matter who we have as head coach. We will be doomed.

  • Comment 154, posted at 16.09.15 13:27:06 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 154) : John Smit needs to get his bloody ducks in a row.

  • Comment 155, posted at 16.09.15 13:27:58 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 154) : @Ben (Comment 155) : Well thats just it…no use bringing in a top guy if all he is going to do is bash his head against a brick wall

  • Comment 156, posted at 16.09.15 13:32:51 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 148) : The Brumbies also had Stephen Larkham working with Jake (smart player turning into a smart coach). We have ???

  • Comment 157, posted at 16.09.15 13:36:32 by Bokhoring Reply
    Administrator
    BokhoringAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 156) : Like I told you a few days ago. We need to bring in a new head coach and let that coach decide who he wants as assistants. Let him run the show and let him be accountable. The circus we are seeing now is bloody ridiculous.

  • Comment 158, posted at 16.09.15 13:38:31 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 158) : Yeh agree on the new coach selecting his assistants. But at the same time he needs to be given a decent tight 5…very tough to build a house on jelly

  • Comment 159, posted at 16.09.15 13:40:13 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 157) : That’s exactly the problem. Jake should have been allowed to get his own assistants. Repeating myself here.

  • Comment 160, posted at 16.09.15 13:41:02 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 157) : In terms of ex players? I would say botes can be groomed. I doubt Butch James can be categorized as a smart player.

  • Comment 161, posted at 16.09.15 15:29:28 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 161) : Ya look lets leave Butch with his microphone and walk away. Botes def potential although he seems to want to work behind the scenes rather.

  • Comment 162, posted at 16.09.15 15:41:12 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 161) : I mean that Larkham worked with Jake and Laurie Fischer, and has now progressed to be a decent coach (based on Brumbies at least making the semi-finals. So there has been continuity in coaching, whereas Jake’s assistants at the Sharks did not continue, but neither were either in the class of Larkham IMO.

  • Comment 163, posted at 16.09.15 16:13:25 by Bokhoring Reply
    Administrator
    BokhoringAssistant coach
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 161) : really,based on what is he not smart,I do agree about Botes

  • Comment 164, posted at 16.09.15 22:51:31 by benji Reply
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