Richard Ferguson

Jean leads Boks in opener


Written by Richard Ferguson (Richard Ferguson)

Posted in :Original Content, RWC 2015, Springboks on 16 Sep 2015 at 11:03
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The Springbok team to face Japan in their opening fixture of the 2015 Rugby World Cup has been announced, with Jean de Villiers leading the team and Patrick Lambie starting at flyhalf.

The team sees quite a few players returning from injury, while the backline has remained mostly unchanged from the last team that played Argentina. The only change there being the inclusion of captain Jean de Villiers, with Damian de Allende missing out on the match 23 completely.

It is amongst the forwards that most of the change happened, Jannie du Plessis back from injury and joining his Sharks team mates to pack down in the front row. Lood de Jager is back in the 4 jersey that he knows so well, joining Victor Matfield in the second row. According to the team release, Eben Etzebeth could have played in the match, but the decision to give him more time to fully recover a smart one in my mind.

Similarly, Duane Vermeulen could also have started the test, but again, he was given more time to get himself ready. That means Francois Louw, Willem Alberts and Schalk Burger will do duty as the loose trio.

Amongst the substitutes we see the long awaited return to the match 23 for Fourie du Preez, who is sure to see a bit of game time in the second half. Coenie Oosthuizen is also a walking wounded to return to the team.

The Springbok team to face Japan in Brighton is:

Springboks: 15. Zane Kirchner, 14. Lwazi Mvovo, 13. Jesse Kriel, 12. Jean de Villiers (Capt), 11. Bryan Habana, 10. Patrick Lambie, 9. Ruan Pienaar, 8. Schalk Burger, 7. Willem Alberts, 6. Francois Louw, 5. Victor Matfield, 4. Lood de Jager, 3. Jannie du Plessis, 2. Bismarck du Plessis, 1. Tendai Mtawarira.

Substitutes: 16. Adriaan Strauss, 17. Trevor Nyakane, 18. Coenie Oosthuizen, 19. Pieter-Steph du Toit, 20. Siya Kolisi, 21. Fourie du Preez, 22. Handre Pollard, 23. JP Pietersen.



287 Comments

  • So glad Pat starts!!!!!

  • Comment 1, posted at 16.09.15 11:06:11 by capesharks Reply
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  • This:… “and Patrick Lambie starting at flyhalf”
    Yes!! Sanity prevails! :razz: Thanks Rich!

  • Comment 2, posted at 16.09.15 11:06:41 by Another Nick Reply
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  • Kirchner… is Willie injured?

  • Comment 3, posted at 16.09.15 11:06:46 by patrick86 Reply
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  • @capesharks (Comment 1) : My heart says I should be happy, my head says he is probably only starting because it’s Japan.

  • Comment 4, posted at 16.09.15 11:08:07 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @capesharks (Comment 1) : @Another Nick (Comment 2) : @Seth101 (Comment 4) :

    HM – “The backline is almost unchanged as we also decided to reward the players who did so well in Buenos Aires. There will in all likelihood be changes again next week but for now these players deserve another opportunity to stake a claim.”

  • Comment 5, posted at 16.09.15 11:17:08 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 4) :

    To quote from the team release:

    “The backline is almost unchanged as we also decided to reward the players who did so well in Buenos Aires. There will in all likelihood be changes again next week but for now these players deserve another opportunity to stake a claim.”

  • Comment 6, posted at 16.09.15 11:18:02 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • Some interesting stats about the team:

    The total number Test caps for the Springbok starting line-up is 880, the most experienced Springbok side ever. The previous most experienced side (836 caps) played in the RWC quarter-final against Australia in 2011 in Wellington, New Zealand

    The following players will make their RWC debut: Lood de Jager, Zane Kirchner, Jesse Kriel and Lwazi Mvovo, while Pieter-Steph du Toit, Siya Kolisi, Trevor Nyakane, Coenie Oosthuizen, Handré Pollard and Adriaan Strauss may also make their RWC debut if they get game-time off the bench.

  • Comment 7, posted at 16.09.15 11:19:34 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 5) : @Richard Ferguson (Comment 6) : Something tells me there will be changes regardless of ‘stakes claimed’.

  • Comment 8, posted at 16.09.15 11:23:04 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 5) : If Pat has another solid game, I can’t see how HM will bench him again next week. But then again.. we are talking about HM here.. so all logic goes out the window.

  • Comment 9, posted at 16.09.15 11:23:50 by Another Nick Reply

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  • @Seth101 (Comment 4) : The only game I will give Pollard is USA…PERIOD!!!!

  • Comment 10, posted at 16.09.15 11:24:35 by capesharks Reply

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  • So Coenie is going to play tighthead. Interesting…

  • Comment 11, posted at 16.09.15 11:25:33 by Ben Reply
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  • Good looking team.

  • Comment 12, posted at 16.09.15 11:26:19 by StevieS Reply
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  • Struggling to get excited about this RWC. The presence of Kirchner and absence of Coetzee isn’t helping but it’s a more general feeling of ‘meh’.

  • Comment 13, posted at 16.09.15 11:27:07 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Pretty much as expected although i did expect DeAllende in place of Kriel with Kriel replacing Pieterson on the bench. I think Willie given more rest time as with Vermuelen and Etzebeth. In all honesty its a very good side and if their mindset is right they should blow away Japan.

  • Comment 14, posted at 16.09.15 11:27:58 by SheldonK Reply

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  • Heyneke will bring Pollard and FDP on in last 30 when Boks are getting and top and his 2 favorites will look like a million bucks …then its FDP and Pollard going forward…..I dont trust HM at all anymore….

  • Comment 15, posted at 16.09.15 11:28:33 by grant10 Reply

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  • Pretty solid pack that – I don’t think Japan will be able to hold them in check for long. Glad Lood and Jannie is back.

    Also really interested to see in what shape FdP is currently.

  • Comment 16, posted at 16.09.15 11:29:17 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 8) :
    @Another Nick (Comment 9) :
    @grant10 (Comment 15) :

    Look, I cannot imagine what HM can gauge from Lambie playing against Japan. It is a lose/lose situation for him. If he is brilliant, it will be a case of ‘Oh, it’s just Japan’, but if he is to miss a few kicks or take a while to get into the game, he could well lose his spot.

    Surely something somewhere should be telling HM that he needs to get his first team to gel so that by the time a quarter final comes around, we are no longer wondering who the first choice is, that team should have played together in the pool games and be ready to face England/Australia in the QF..

  • Comment 17, posted at 16.09.15 11:31:48 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 13) : I find it a lot easier to get excited about the World Cup (even though I still expect the Boks to drop out in the semis) than the Shark’s Currie Cup campaign.

  • Comment 18, posted at 16.09.15 11:31:56 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @grant10 (Comment 15) : Wow :sad: That made so much sense, you just destroyed my happiness at Lambie getting to start.

    I think you’re 100% correct. Look for HM to say ‘they really dominated in those last 20 minutes and I want to keep them together as a combination and see how they can do in the bigger games”.

  • Comment 19, posted at 16.09.15 11:33:09 by StevieS Reply
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  • @capesharks (Comment 1) : @Another Nick (Comment 2) : don’t get to excited this is probably the “B-side”.

  • Comment 20, posted at 16.09.15 11:34:22 by JD Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 17) : Very good point Rich. Give Lambie his backing and let him relax and dominate.

  • Comment 21, posted at 16.09.15 11:34:50 by StevieS Reply
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  • Yay, 5 stars!!!

  • Comment 22, posted at 16.09.15 11:35:12 by StevieS Reply
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  • @grant10 (Comment 15) : This. @Richard Ferguson (Comment 17) : Way to much logic needed for that thought process.

  • Comment 23, posted at 16.09.15 11:37:18 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @StevieS (Comment 19) : @grant10 (Comment 15) : @Richard Ferguson (Comment 17) :

    I think HM will select HIS first team against Samoa, Scotland, USA. This is a team that still are missing a few injured players and have a number of players that HM trust to win this game for him, but some of his favorites will come in next week … Pollard, Fourie, Duane, Eben … possibly Willie and JPP. I don’t know where de Allende stand with HM, but it seems he may be reduced to a bench role – at most.

  • Comment 24, posted at 16.09.15 11:38:10 by Letgo Reply
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  • Are we seriously now complaining that Heyneke Meyer has picked Lambie? We got mad when he is on the bench but now that he is picked to start we moan about that and its only Japan and Pollard and Dupreez on the bench. Can we not be positive that Lambie is starting the game? Crises a know the Sharks are not great at the moment but its seems all of Sharks country is super negative these days about everything

  • Comment 25, posted at 16.09.15 11:40:26 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 17) : This is the most underwhelming WC squad and campaign since the 2003 debacle. No faith, no trust and no emotional attachment to Heynekes team…..I wish the Boks well…..always,,,but I have zero passion for this bunch….HM has proven to be an absolute hypocrite and out and out liar…..

  • Comment 26, posted at 16.09.15 11:41:16 by grant10 Reply

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  • My first choice, out of the 31 man squad, would be:

    Mvovo, Willie, Kriel, De Allende, Habana, Lambie, Fourie, Duane, Willem, Flouw, Victor (C), Eben, Jannie, Bis, Beast.

    Nyakane, Coenie, Britz, Lood, Burger, Ruan, Pollard, De Villiers

  • Comment 27, posted at 16.09.15 11:42:12 by Letgo Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 25) : We’re complaining that it’s a blatantly obviously HM gimmick, he pretty much confirms it in his statement.
    Some of us are blessed with the ability to see through bullsh!t. ;-)

  • Comment 28, posted at 16.09.15 11:45:39 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 25) :

    We are happy Lambie is starting… just not blindly so, as we believe this may be the last time. I hope not, but I have no faith in HM to back Pat as is 1st choice for this whole thing.

    I predict Lambie start, Pollard start, Steyn start, and then HM will pick his preferred 10 for the rest of the comp. Just have this funny feeling.

    This is how much faith I have in the guy.

  • Comment 29, posted at 16.09.15 11:45:48 by Letgo Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 25) :

    Look, I am very happy that Lambie is starting, I was quite surprised to see his name.

    I am just saying, with everybody else’s feeling that this is a B team, I am quietly hoping this is his A team, without Eben and Duane, and that he is giving them as much time together as possible.

    But you have to agree that any player chosen to prove his worth against a team like Japan, is sitting in a lose/lose situation..

  • Comment 30, posted at 16.09.15 11:46:04 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • I’m glad that he didn’t go for the Damian/Jean combo. I hope Jean plays well, because HM will persist with him in the team regardless.

  • Comment 31, posted at 16.09.15 11:47:22 by Letgo Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 25) : Everyone is allowed to express their own opinion. So why don’t you take a piece out of your own advice and stop complaining?

  • Comment 32, posted at 16.09.15 11:48:17 by Ben Reply
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  • @grant10 (Comment 26) :

    Agree with your statement.

    I was pumped for this World Cup before the Rugby Championship, and now it is a mission for me to even get excited about announcing the team to play the first game.

    Whether it is down to their performance over the last few matches, or the backroom politics that will no doubt surface again during the next 6 weeks, I don’t know. But what I do know is that there are a lot of people out there who are not going to get too excited about this tournament.

    And that to me is a shame, because any tournament that comes around once in four years should be a thrilling and exciting event.

  • Comment 33, posted at 16.09.15 11:49:24 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @grant10 (Comment 15) : Just sucked the joy out of the announcement with your logic :mrgreen:

    I’m just excited to see him showcase his talents and dominate!!

  • Comment 34, posted at 16.09.15 11:49:40 by ChrisS Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 30) :

    Both Eben and Duane are not 100% yet.

  • Comment 35, posted at 16.09.15 11:49:40 by Morné Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 28) : @Letgo (Comment 29) : So Meyer is an idiot if Lambie doesnt start, he is also an idiot if he starts but may not next game. Crises tough crowd. He should have just left Lambie in Durbs.

  • Comment 36, posted at 16.09.15 11:49:43 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Ben (Comment 32) : Check my first comment before you shout your mouth off. Rather go comment on the Sharks feed about Gary Gold

  • Comment 37, posted at 16.09.15 11:50:43 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 30) : I truly believe no team has the real luxury of playing a B team in this world cup- u do so at your peril. I think he has played all the best guys he can without taking risks on guys that still may have niggles such as Etzebeth, LeRoux and Vermuelen.

  • Comment 38, posted at 16.09.15 11:52:33 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 38) : He literally said he is giving people a chance (So not an A team) and yet you still try and deny it?

    @SheldonK (Comment 36) : As Richard said, it’s a lose/lose. The only thing that will convince myself, and others I think, is if we see Lambie selected against better teams than Japan. Until then there is a lot of doubt.

  • Comment 39, posted at 16.09.15 11:56:28 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 37) : I don’t really need to check any of your comments. It’s all Heyneke Meyer, Gary Gold fanboy stuff.

  • Comment 40, posted at 16.09.15 11:57:33 by Ben Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 36) :

    I think you’re the only one using the word idiot.

  • Comment 41, posted at 16.09.15 11:58:37 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 40) : Sorry for not hating every coach and trying to see the positives in the side.

  • Comment 42, posted at 16.09.15 11:58:45 by SheldonK Reply

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  • I think there are some real positives in this starting 15. We got what we wanted Lambie at 10, he now needs to be rock solid, no mistakes this is his chance. Mvovo has out played JP for at least 2 years now and his start is justified. I like the fact that Kriel is at 13 and we haven’t put de Allende at 13. Zane at 15, not my favourite and I didn’t see most of the Buenos Aires game so he’s in the squad may as well play him. The pack looks solid, the loose trio is dynamite and Pienaar is more at home in Europe so there is little to question. Jean was named skipper in 2012 so we all knew he would be there back then, he is still the best inside centre on defence we have. I don’t wish injury on Jean but he is very injury prone (especially at world cups) so I imagine we will see De Allende and Kriel at some point.

  • Comment 43, posted at 16.09.15 11:59:32 by Hulk Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 42) : Like I said. Everyone has the right to express their own opinions. You express yours, but yet you keep on complaining about everyone else expressing theirs.

  • Comment 44, posted at 16.09.15 12:01:07 by Ben Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 35) :

    Yes I know..

  • Comment 45, posted at 16.09.15 12:01:50 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 36) :

    You have been very combative lately.

    Our opinion is that Lambie should be first choice and not just be selected to “stake a claim” (HM’s words).

    We are concerned that HM might bench him for the rest of the campaign, which we believe would be a mistake, as we believe Lambie is the best option.

    What’s you’re opinion on the matter, or would you rather continue just continue to defend HM, without voicing your own opinion on the matter?

  • Comment 46, posted at 16.09.15 12:03:02 by Letgo Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 38) :

    So you are thinking what I am hoping – that this is the first choice team that will most likely play the toughest game of the pool stage (Scotland).

    I really hope you are right.

    And for the record, I agree that you shouldn’t play a B team, there is no place for giving players Caps at a World Cup if they are not the very best in their position. That is what the End of Year Tour is for, not a once in four years showpiece…

  • Comment 47, posted at 16.09.15 12:03:54 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 42) :

    You are not trying to see positives. You are simply criticizing us for not being 100% with this team announcement.

    Show me one of your comments that has actually mentioned the positives in this side. I actually mentioned one.

    I said I am glad that he rather selected Jean at 12 with Jesse, in stead of trying the Damian/Jean combination, which I don’t think will work.

  • Comment 48, posted at 16.09.15 12:06:01 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 39) : If Heyneke Meyer had started Pollard and put Lambie on the bench and still said he is giving guys a chance we would be questioning how many chances the guy gets. I like that Lambie is starting, i like that Kirchner is starting, so too Lood De Jager and Jean DeVilliers. I would have preferred DeAllende on the bench over Pieterson but maybe he too has a little niggle.

  • Comment 49, posted at 16.09.15 12:07:48 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 33) : Exactly right….Heyneke has been absolutely diabolically dismal….I would love to look him in the eye and ask him some tough questions….in my opinion he should be ashamed of himself….but this just makes me extremely annoyed so I will rather shutup ….

  • Comment 50, posted at 16.09.15 12:09:08 by grant10 Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 13) : I think the second one of our loosies gets injured and a replacement is required Marcel will get the call and then probably find himself in the 23. Just a feeling.

  • Comment 51, posted at 16.09.15 12:09:09 by Hulk Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 47) : I think this is pretty damn close to his preferred side. I dont think he fully knows what to expect from DuPreez so jury out on that. Vermuelen will be back for the Samoa/Scotland games. DeAllende and LeRoux will come in- starting or bench is a toss up. And i think Malherbe could show face depending how Coenie goes. So yes he has gone almost full strength, well as much as possible. The only game he can really juggle is the last game vs USA due to the short turn around time. But the rest- play the best you can or face the consequences

  • Comment 52, posted at 16.09.15 12:11:30 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Letgo (Comment 48) : Check my first comment on this thread- comment 14. What i am annoyed with is people moaning at HM for not starting Lambie and then moaning when he does. Trust me flyhalf isnt our issue- we have 2 class flyhalves. Its the other positions where things arent so clear

  • Comment 53, posted at 16.09.15 12:13:12 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @grant10 (Comment 50) :

    Yes, He should have to answer for quite a bit.

    The thing that is most disappointing is the rumour (which I believe to be very true based on who is saying what) that he is already employed for another 4 years.. That is an even bigger mistake on SARugby’s part..

  • Comment 54, posted at 16.09.15 12:14:19 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Hulk (Comment 51) : As far as i know Coetzee is still very much injured…

  • Comment 55, posted at 16.09.15 12:14:26 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 52) :

    Agree with that 100%

    Fourie will come on to close the games, and I am happy with that. He has the experience to do that, and is really the only other option we have in the squad.

  • Comment 56, posted at 16.09.15 12:16:19 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 54) : Huge mistake. Victor Matfield to come out of retirement again in three years time. :roll:

  • Comment 57, posted at 16.09.15 12:16:45 by Ben Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 54) : If you could have another 4yrs of any of the previous Bok coaches who would it be? (PDivvys entertainment value aside)

  • Comment 58, posted at 16.09.15 12:16:51 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 54) : My only hope is that us doing badly in the WC will mean that he doesn’t end up with another 4 years. The problem is it leaves me in the situation that I am actively hoping we do badly.

  • Comment 59, posted at 16.09.15 12:17:15 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 57) : That’s if he has retired before then. :shock:

  • Comment 60, posted at 16.09.15 12:17:16 by Ben Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 59) : We’re in the same boat.

  • Comment 61, posted at 16.09.15 12:19:25 by Ben Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 18) : ja but your a shark . a lot different for us lions . we have hope

  • Comment 62, posted at 16.09.15 12:20:25 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 59) : @Ben (Comment 61) : It’s the same feeling I had right before the Argentina game in Durban.

  • Comment 63, posted at 16.09.15 12:20:50 by Ben Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 56) : I really think Meyer isnt sure what to expect from DuPreez after his layoff but he knows his brain still works hence the smart option is off the bench. Again pairing with Pollard makes sense- Dupreez can dictate allowing Pollard to just play in an effort to get his confidence high again. The way DuPreez plays would suit Pollard wanting to run onto the ball- and i think an in your face Dupreez/Pollard with a creative LeRoux coming off the bench could def swing a game for the Boks.

  • Comment 64, posted at 16.09.15 12:21:07 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 62) : This is Sharksworld. :twisted: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 65, posted at 16.09.15 12:22:12 by Ben Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 53) : There jsut that. HM also said form the start all three fly-halfs will get game time. Now just wait for the next game where Lambie doesn’t get selected, Sharksworld servers will burnout.

  • Comment 66, posted at 16.09.15 12:23:32 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 53) :

    We didn’t moan though, we tempered the excitement of the first few comments that Lambie is starting by posting HM’s exact quote.

    My opinion is that HM will not back Lambie. My opinion is that this would be a mistake, regardless of how talented Pollard is, I believe he is still a liability in pressure situations and on defense.

    I think your opinion is that HM will back Lambie. I’m not sure though, I’m not even sure if your opinion is whether he should back Lambie. Or would you back HM whatever he does? Because then I have to tell you, you’re on the wrong website. I can’t think of anyone here that would just blindly back the coach and not air their own opinions.

    All I know is that you are unhappy that we are unhappy that Lambie is starting “to stake his claim”.

    Have an opinion, please… I don’t care if you have a differing opinion or even if your opinion is always in line with that of HM, but don’t just always criticize us for not always agreeing with the coach.

  • Comment 67, posted at 16.09.15 12:24:37 by Letgo Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 58) :

    Kitch Christie – the only guy with a 100% record..

    In all honesty, I don’t think a coach should be around for more than 4 years. I think it all becomes too familiar, so I would say that a 4 year rotation is probable good for a team.

  • Comment 68, posted at 16.09.15 12:24:41 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 54) : That would be a disgrace.

  • Comment 69, posted at 16.09.15 12:24:47 by grant10 Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 62) : I’m really happy for the Lions. Hope you guys win it this year. I’m rooting for you. ;)

  • Comment 70, posted at 16.09.15 12:24:54 by Ben Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 58) : Mallet….Christie…

  • Comment 71, posted at 16.09.15 12:25:52 by grant10 Reply

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  • @Ben (Comment 65) : some days when i log in i have to double check because it sounds a lot like lions world from a few years back :P

  • Comment 72, posted at 16.09.15 12:26:01 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 54) : I don’t think its totally such a bad idea. Remember he wont have Matfield, Steyn and Fourie anymore to call on, I suspect a whole new team on the field if he is coach for another 4.

  • Comment 73, posted at 16.09.15 12:26:18 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 68) : I dont think Kitch is in the greatest condition to coach in 2016 but fair point on your reasoning.

  • Comment 74, posted at 16.09.15 12:26:55 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 64) :

    I agree, the only way I would play Pollard is with Du Preez, but then I first need to see how Fourie goes.

  • Comment 75, posted at 16.09.15 12:27:21 by Letgo Reply
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  • @grant10 (Comment 69) : That’s reality. :(

  • Comment 76, posted at 16.09.15 12:27:40 by Ben Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 67) : You go girl! ;)

  • Comment 77, posted at 16.09.15 12:28:08 by Ben Reply
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  • @grant10 (Comment 71) : I know why Mallet, but do you not think that how outspoken Mallet is these would be a big distraction to the Boks- or would it be the opposite?

  • Comment 78, posted at 16.09.15 12:28:50 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 58) :

    I wouldn’t mind HM. After some of his favorites retire he will be forced to pick the best players.

    I think he is a good coach, but plays favorites with players he feels familiar with.

    But I would go with Jake White.

  • Comment 79, posted at 16.09.15 12:29:31 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 73) : Isn’t that what we said about Matfield 4 years ago? :)

  • Comment 80, posted at 16.09.15 12:30:24 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 57) :

    Look, Victor isn’t even retiring after the World Cup, he is set to play in England, Northampton Saints if memory serves..

    Look, I doubt that will happen, and similarly Fourie and Jean and a host of guys will not be around. But that is exactly the problem, there has been no plan from HM for the eventual retirement in certain positions, and it will take another 2 year ‘building’ phase to sort that out. And I don’t feel particularly positive that HM will be able to take a step back and actually select a young team based on potential rather than past performance.

  • Comment 81, posted at 16.09.15 12:30:27 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 78) : I don’t think there is really anyone who is sticking their hands up high enough to actually replace HM. Maybe Dick Muir?

  • Comment 82, posted at 16.09.15 12:30:53 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 80) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 83, posted at 16.09.15 12:31:14 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 75) : Lets be honest Paige isnt going to play…so Pienaar and Dupreez it is. And in that regard id rather have Dupreez off the bench with Pollard. Ive said for ages that we too often neglect the impact a bench needs to make and when a coach makes those changes. Changing at 60min for the sake of it just shows there is no plan. Hence why i say the Dupreez/pollard/leroux combo off the bench works. Just like id play Schalk and PSDT off the bench. (this all assumes everyone is fit of course)

  • Comment 84, posted at 16.09.15 12:31:35 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 74) :

    Haha.. Funny man..

  • Comment 85, posted at 16.09.15 12:33:22 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 81) :

    That’s also true… most of the new players HM has backed has been players that he previously coached.

    I do have an issue with is favoritism, but I honestly believe he is a good coach … maybe we need to just get independent selectors.

  • Comment 86, posted at 16.09.15 12:33:38 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 47) : good point . no free handout to paige

  • Comment 87, posted at 16.09.15 12:33:47 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 81) : Agreed. Another 2 years of excuses.

  • Comment 88, posted at 16.09.15 12:34:29 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 88) :

    Another ‘building phase’

    I hate those words so much, because it is basically just an excuse for improper planning. There should be no building phase, there should just be one long phase of continued growth..

  • Comment 89, posted at 16.09.15 12:35:56 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 84) :

    I definitely like the idea of playing those guys from the bench, I would add Jean into that mix, because I feel Damian is the better player and should start, but I would prefer to have Jean on the field for the last 20/30 minutes of pressure matches.

    So my starting 15 would be

    Ruan/Lambie/Damian

    Fourie/Pollard/Jean replacing them.

    And

    Duan/Willem/Flouw/Victor

    With Schalk and PSDT used in last 30 min.

  • Comment 90, posted at 16.09.15 12:38:12 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 89) : I think we are being a bit harsh on Heyneke here, Rich. He probably has a plan in place for the future and that plan is probably called the Bulls U21 team. ;)

  • Comment 91, posted at 16.09.15 12:39:09 by Ben Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 89) : But on a more serious note. You’re hitting the nail squarely on the head, Richard.

  • Comment 92, posted at 16.09.15 12:40:13 by Ben Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 79) : I wouldnt go with Meyer as i dont think he picks the best assistant coaches which doesnt aide his cause. I also dont think he likes to diverge from his initial plan A. And its hard for a coach to have a plan B as it does sometimes create doubt around your plan B. I wouldnt pick White- purely because I dont think he is in the right frame of mind currently to build a side for 4 yrs. Id pick Alan Solomons…but quite undecided on [email protected]Uli Boelie (Comment 82) : I think Dickie Muir is living far too comfy a life at the moment to change for the admin of Bok coach

  • Comment 93, posted at 16.09.15 12:41:37 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 78) : In my opinion Mallet is still by far the best man for the Bok job….but I would consider Smal and Mitchell too…

  • Comment 94, posted at 16.09.15 12:43:08 by grant10 Reply

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  • @Letgo (Comment 67) : My opinion is: Lambie is the best FH in the country – BY FAR!! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 95, posted at 16.09.15 12:43:22 by Another Nick Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 81) : true post that!

  • Comment 96, posted at 16.09.15 12:44:47 by grant10 Reply

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  • @Letgo (Comment 90) : So Victor to captain then assuming? The issue with Jean bench is he only really covers centre- altho suppose others starting can shift around. Pollard/LeRoux bench then means 2 guys that can cover 10-15. But yeh i may be wrong but i think teams with a good bench will be tough to beat this RWC

  • Comment 97, posted at 16.09.15 12:46:01 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @grant10 (Comment 94) : Reason i say no to Mitchell is not sure his aggressive nature would gel well with the shall we say demands of the job in SA. Also think like Muir, Smal is very comfy where he is. How busy is Rassie?

  • Comment 98, posted at 16.09.15 12:47:57 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @grant10 (Comment 15) : Your optimism is inspiring! So what, the goal is to play as a squad not? If Lambie and Pollard both add value great. Why the constant whingeing?

  • Comment 99, posted at 16.09.15 12:49:53 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @Letgo (Comment 79) : personally i dont see that happening . He still goes with the Bulls first . watch how Galant and Unlungo gets picked after the WC

  • Comment 100, posted at 16.09.15 12:52:00 by Zibbie Reply
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  • I am a massive fan of Pat. But let’s face it there are two flyhalfs and a technician. So I would say Pollard needs to start against japan as a confidence builder. Pat will be needed for the difficult games where we need tactical advantage and our brute force won get a win. I.e. all of the top 7 teams.

  • Comment 101, posted at 16.09.15 12:53:18 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 98) : Ask Morné.

  • Comment 102, posted at 16.09.15 12:53:57 by Ben Reply
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  • I can’t help it, but I’m excited for the world cup to start….after the dour rugby that we’ve had to endure during this year, I need some excitement.

    Go Bokke!!

  • Comment 103, posted at 16.09.15 12:56:19 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • I like that Lambie is starting this game… I’ll also be happy for him not to start against Samoa… We always lose important players against Samoa, and I’ll be happy that its not Lambie…

    It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that Pollard gets injured in the Samoa game… And that Lambie takes over from then on in

  • Comment 104, posted at 16.09.15 12:57:15 by CS Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 25) : I am getting that very same feeling. Gee, it’s time to put provincialism and favouritism aside and back our Bokke. FFS!!

  • Comment 105, posted at 16.09.15 12:59:11 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @Ben (Comment 102) : Surely Rassie has built up enough paid vacation for a quick 4yr stint. But as with Jake White…a good head coach is important but good assistants are more important

  • Comment 106, posted at 16.09.15 13:00:28 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @CS (Comment 104) : And then if the Boks do well, Heyneke will come out and say it was his plan all along to play Lambie in the big games. Tries to take all the credit for himself, that’s the kind of person he appears to be.

  • Comment 107, posted at 16.09.15 13:03:31 by Ben Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 59) : And appoint who as bok coach? P Divvy, or wait, lets promote gold, all the Sharkies will be ecstatic to be rid of him. This moaning mentality is getting tedious. So who will we make coach of the Boks. Ackerman or Storehouse, because they showed their mettle in the CC? Or maybe Dawie Theron, or lets give AC a shot!

  • Comment 108, posted at 16.09.15 13:07:32 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @Ben (Comment 107) : Well, if it means the Boks did well… Then so be it. Lets hold thumbs and hope!!

    Go Bokke!!

  • Comment 109, posted at 16.09.15 13:07:55 by CS Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 103) : Same here

  • Comment 110, posted at 16.09.15 13:08:02 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 108) : Yeah, everyone has short memories about P Divvy… We were the laughing stock of world rugby under his leadership… Or rather he was the laughing stock!

  • Comment 111, posted at 16.09.15 13:10:08 by CS Reply

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  • @grant10 (Comment 71) : Mallet won’t coach in SA, so that would be a moot point.

  • Comment 112, posted at 16.09.15 13:10:11 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 108) :

    If you were the one making the decision on who the next Bok coach would be, who would you choose?

    I honestly don’t know myself, so it is interesting to get others’ thoughts..

  • Comment 113, posted at 16.09.15 13:13:54 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @CS (Comment 111) : ..and I was able to back the Boks for the rwc when he “coached” them, so I’m surely able to back them with HM as coach. :grin:

  • Comment 114, posted at 16.09.15 13:15:26 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 113) : I would look to New Zealand. A Robbie Deans or someone of that calliber.

  • Comment 115, posted at 16.09.15 13:17:32 by Ben Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 112) : Mallet wont coach, not a chance Mitchell will either-he will probably punch someone in the interview for the job, Jake White wants the Eng or France gig, Pdivvy would take but eish, Streauli’s PR nightmare counts im out and he was crap, Harry Viljoen? Wheres that oke? Jimmy Stonehouse won a Vodacom Cup with the Pumas so he seems like the best local coach.

  • Comment 116, posted at 16.09.15 13:17:35 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Ben (Comment 115) : The problem with a foreigner is that they may have the rugby skills but can they handle the ‘other’ demands that go with the job in SA?

  • Comment 117, posted at 16.09.15 13:19:26 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 117) : Fair point. I don’t live in SA anymore so forgive me for being a big ignorant.

  • Comment 118, posted at 16.09.15 13:21:10 by Ben Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 98) : Not sure….Mitchell is exactly what Boks need….but hope he goes to Sharks…

  • Comment 119, posted at 16.09.15 13:23:08 by grant10 Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 116) :

    Harry Viljoen – The only International coach ever to not have a coaching job before or after taking over an International Team..

    Special bloke that!

  • Comment 120, posted at 16.09.15 13:24:29 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 108) : I believe A Coetsee will be boks coach in a couple of months.

  • Comment 121, posted at 16.09.15 13:24:32 by grant10 Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 120) : So he is available then? :) @Ben (Comment 118) : @grant10 (Comment 119) : If a Bok coach was just required to coach and prepare the team then yeh there a number of guys that could be asked, especially foreigners. But having to manage all those ‘other’ demands means not just any good coach can do it. Those other things will distract and downgrade some very good coaches. as an example i dont think guys like Graham Henry, Clive Woodward or Michael Cheika would handle it very well.

  • Comment 122, posted at 16.09.15 13:28:33 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 81) : I don’t entirely agree. Injuries have played a role. HM took guys like Reinach and Piet van Zyl at sH. And he has given quite a few players exposure of bok rugby. Some worked, some didn’t. Goodness was great, but then he had a run of injuries. Ditto Coenie and PSDT. There is enough young talent coming through, and I do believe we will be up there with the AB’s and Wobblies.
    LH: Thomas, Oli Kebble, Nyakane, JC, Lizo Gqboka, Ox Nche
    Hkr: Jacques du Toit, Ntubeni, Cooper, Marx
    TH: Coenie, Malherbe, Dreyer, Marcel, Mxoli
    4: Lood, Etzebeth, Ruan Botha, Jason Jenkins
    5: PSDT, Jean Kleyn, Orie, RG Snyman, Mostert
    6: Coetzee, Kriel, Chris Cleote, Roelof Smit
    7: Lappies, du Preez twins, Kolisi, Minnie, Rhodes, Elstadt
    8: Arno Botha, Hanro Liebenberg, vd Walt, Whiteley
    9: van Zyl, Paige, Faf,
    10: Lambie, Pollard, Goosen, Jantjies, Dan du Preez, Brandon Thompson
    11: Rhule, Mvovo, Obi, Travis Ismael
    12: Serfontein, Frans Steyn, Burger Odendaal, de Allende, Harold Forster, Venter
    13: Jesse, Dries Swanepoel, WSS, Jordaan
    14: Ulengo, Senatla, Siyanda Grey, Sithole, Pietersen
    15: Le Roux, Gelant, Andries Coetzee, Blommetjies, Immelmann, EW Viljoen

    So much potential, and I am sure I missed lots.

  • Comment 123, posted at 16.09.15 13:29:54 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 93) : Wonder how much say HM had in the assistant coaches appointments.

  • Comment 124, posted at 16.09.15 13:32:01 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @grant10 (Comment 121) : Are you taking the piss? He is going to Japan, isn’t he?

  • Comment 125, posted at 16.09.15 13:32:18 by Ben Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 100) : Well frankly Gelant and Ulengo are great picks, and would be a shoo in if they were Lions :mrgreen:

  • Comment 126, posted at 16.09.15 13:33:41 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 124) : Hmm interesting point as i dont think they have served him that well

  • Comment 127, posted at 16.09.15 13:34:28 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 123) :

    Yeah look, you make some valid points, I can’t argue with the fact that he gave guys like Reinach and van Zyl a chance. Would he have done it if he could select a fit Fourie, probably not, but his injured state has opened those doors.

    You name very talented players, but do you have the faith in HM as a coach and manager to actually select those players and let them grow into a force?

  • Comment 128, posted at 16.09.15 13:36:34 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 123) : And thats just the mostly local guys

  • Comment 129, posted at 16.09.15 13:36:38 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 113) : I am as stumped as you are. The thing is the top coaches won’t be keen to accept the kind of meddling that bok coaches have to deal with. Mallet won’t take the job. Small is certainly an option. Ackerman has done a sterling job with the Lions, and that is about it.

  • Comment 130, posted at 16.09.15 13:37:37 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 128) : We also assume all these talented guys dont go chasing the Euro etc in french division 3 etc

  • Comment 131, posted at 16.09.15 13:38:04 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 55) : I had thought he was expected to be ready by the start of the World Cup. Granted not heard his name around the Currie Cup so maybe he is still injured. Hope he gets sorted soon and gets some CC games.

  • Comment 132, posted at 16.09.15 13:38:28 by Hulk Reply

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  • @Ben (Comment 115) : Would they be amenable to coach in this unique environment? Deans was sensational with the Crusaders, but wasn’t such a shining light with the Wobblies. Culture clash?

  • Comment 133, posted at 16.09.15 13:39:15 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @Hulk (Comment 132) : He was never going to play CC, was either RWC or off to Japan. But i have heard rumours that the injury is worse than initially thought hence the non selection. Hasnt been much said about it

  • Comment 134, posted at 16.09.15 13:42:20 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 106) : Ha ha, Rassie doesn’t enjoy coaching. That is why is moved to he analysis side of it.

  • Comment 135, posted at 16.09.15 13:43:09 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 130) :

    I’m with you on Mallett, he won’t coach again, and certainly not in SA.

    Ackermann is a great coach for the Lions, but he has had the advantage of time and building a team from scratch. I won’t say he won’t make a great Bok coach, but I would leave him grow a bit more and gain some more experience before giving him the Bok job.

    As for all the other names, I don’t think there is a South African coach out there that can really stake a claim to the role, and that is perhaps why HM is in line to do it another 4 years. It’s like Durban winning the Commonwealth Games Bid, it’s fantastic, but we were the only ones trying to host it. We could hardly get it wrong..

    I do agree on the other points raised about foreign coaches, our administration does not exactly allow for that to be an option, sadly.

  • Comment 136, posted at 16.09.15 13:44:58 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @CS (Comment 111) : PDivvy is a nutter, but he knows how to beat the All Blacks in NZ, The Lions and most importantly has never lost to the Argies (not even in Argentinia) :razz: . :twisted:

  • Comment 137, posted at 16.09.15 13:45:33 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 135) : haha yeh its cos nobody criticises the guy doing the technical analysis

  • Comment 138, posted at 16.09.15 13:46:32 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 131) :

    You raise an interesting point in this entire debate.

    Should the foreign based players be allowed to play for the Boks. My opinion is that they should, it is the professional era and that is the only way to truly select your best 15 players to start a match.

    But it has some serious side effects on the local arena, and we have seen that lately. The Currie Cup standard is not what it used to be, because there are about 5 full teams playing in other countries..

  • Comment 139, posted at 16.09.15 13:47:55 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 128) : I support Meyer, but I don’t really know as yet. He did try players, but in all honesty, the injuries, and players that left haven’t made his life any easier. Guys like CJ Stander and other talented young players leaving in droves. They may not have been 1st choice then, but I think we would have loved to have Josh Strauss available. HM does persist with players at times. Spies was a case in point, but he also drops them, like he did with Morne Steyn, when he selected Goosen and Jantjeies. I guess we will have to wait and see.

  • Comment 140, posted at 16.09.15 13:48:15 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 136) : So the Alan Solomons curve ball? i know he didnt excel at the Kings that much…but thats like trying to create artistic cuisine out of polony and slap chips

  • Comment 141, posted at 16.09.15 13:48:41 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 137) :

    Divvy inherited a great team, but he also grew that team, and whether we like it or not, he has a decent record.

    I just think he has lost touch with the entire coaching thing by not being involved. He really should be coaching, whether here in SA or elsewhere, but he just seems too set on becoming a political figure..

  • Comment 142, posted at 16.09.15 13:49:33 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 136) : Gert Smal? Dawie Theron gives me the impression of conservatism at times. I liked the game plan that the boks played against the AB’s recently. If HM can continue with that, and have a bench to close it out, we will indeed be in a good space.

  • Comment 143, posted at 16.09.15 13:50:26 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 140) :

    I think what you say exactly sums up HM..

    He does good things in patches, and then follows it up with poor decisions. His worst attribute has to be his inconsistency..

  • Comment 144, posted at 16.09.15 13:50:57 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 139) : Well as its a professional sport it all comes down to product quality. Do you disadvantage your top product so that your smaller product survives? Will the smaller product truly benefit that much by the decision to hinder your top product. At the end of the day its a business decision..and i think we both know the outcome. Also remember the CC as we know it is changing next year due to the ABSa pull out

  • Comment 145, posted at 16.09.15 13:51:37 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 139) : I think they should. As you say, this is pro sport. The fact that so many of our top young players are more and more playing abroad, compounds this.

  • Comment 146, posted at 16.09.15 13:52:31 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 141) : Don’t think Solly was all that hot at the Stormers either?

  • Comment 147, posted at 16.09.15 13:54:05 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 144) : I think i said it somewhere on another comment or thread, Meyer likes sticking to his plan A…he has confidence in plan A and is reluctant to go to plan B as it then means his trusted plan A didnt work which concerns him as i think he too is a ‘confidence player’. I think injuries and guys disappearing all over the globe ruined his plan A a bit

  • Comment 148, posted at 16.09.15 13:55:43 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 141) :

    I know very little about Solomons, to be honest.. And I don’t have enough knowledge on him or where he has been to say whether he will be good or bad. Was he with Scotland for a while, or is that someone else?

    If he has the CV to be in the running and is an experienced coach, he has more attributes than most to take the job. And as a bonus, he already knows what to expect from SARugby purely by having worked with the Kings..

  • Comment 149, posted at 16.09.15 13:57:36 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 147) : So whats made him successful in Europe? Different culture just work for him?

  • Comment 150, posted at 16.09.15 13:58:00 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 149) : He is just a pick from left field, but he seems to be getting something good goig at Edinborough. My other concern with Meyer part 2 is that the young guns we have coming through now are very different players with different attributes to the ones Meyer is used to working with and his game plan. Can he adapt? Or can he install the assistants to allow him to?

  • Comment 151, posted at 16.09.15 14:01:25 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 151) :

    What? You mean to say Ricardo Loubscher is not the best Backline coach in the World?

  • Comment 152, posted at 16.09.15 14:03:52 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 126) : nope . Lions players will be over looked as long as HM is coach .

    but take the Bulls players :P enjoy them .

  • Comment 153, posted at 16.09.15 14:04:29 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 151) :

    Jokes aside, I raised the point earlier, I don’t think HM strong point is adaptability..

    And again I say that I do not believe a coach should be around for more than 4 years. Look at the Cheetahs, how long was Naka coach there and they were and still are one of the most inconsistent sides around.

    You don’t see 8 year stints with any of the top nations around the World, why we would back a guy who hasn’t won anything to try again..

  • Comment 154, posted at 16.09.15 14:06:10 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 154) : The All Blacks seem to have the idea where they rotate the guy for 2 terms then he moves on. So ass coach then head or head coach then assistant then moves on. Next All Black coach could be interesting. @Zibbie (Comment 153) : You Lions guys had Francois Pienaar lift the World Cup…no more Bok players for you till we host it again

  • Comment 155, posted at 16.09.15 14:11:05 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 122) : I don’t even think they would be interested to try, let alone be able to handle it. But we are all allowed to dream, aren’t we? :)

  • Comment 156, posted at 16.09.15 14:16:19 by Ben Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 154) : The SA rugby landscape seem to have changed a bit as well . The Lions are no longer the punching bags we use to be .

    But now HM is reluctant to pick the Lions players since they were not on top 4 years ago .

    Would a new coach bring a new outlook ?

  • Comment 157, posted at 16.09.15 14:19:27 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 155) : hahaha . noooo boooooo :P :lol:

  • Comment 158, posted at 16.09.15 14:20:10 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 157) : Typo there Zibbie. It’s 8 years ago. ;)

  • Comment 159, posted at 16.09.15 14:21:06 by Ben Reply
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  • So a question here: Would it be better in the greater tournament scheme for us to steamroll Japan or for Japan to play well and make the Boks really work for a win?

  • Comment 160, posted at 16.09.15 14:21:16 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 160) : Steam rolling them would be better for our confidence as it should be at an all-time low after losing to Argentina for the first time ever. That would be better for us in my opinion.

  • Comment 161, posted at 16.09.15 14:24:49 by Ben Reply
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  • So quite a few people seem to think this is a B-team. On what basis? I don’t understand that at all. The forward pack is clearly first choice, bar Etzebeth and Vermeulen who are recovering from injury. The backline also seems first choice bar those players being eased back from injury. May HM change his mind as the tournament progresses? Of course. But it genuinely seems to me he has picked his best side for this game (all injuries),considered….

  • Comment 162, posted at 16.09.15 14:27:08 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 159) : oh yes , the dark years .

    Look . for me its very hard to accept that not even 1 single lions player is good enough to make the squad

    i admit , in terms of wc cycles the lions were totally crap between 2003 and 2013 .

    2014 was better
    and same 2015 .

    so we became better in the middle of a wc cycle . fine . why does somebody like Jesse Kriel and Pollard get a look in in the middle of a wc cycle ? why not 1 Lions player ?

    Based on this i would back a new bok coach with a new approach

  • Comment 163, posted at 16.09.15 14:27:49 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 160) :
    @Ben (Comment 161) :

    Yes, but you really want the guys to have a good hit out and sort out problems before going onto the next game..

    Winning 80 – 0 will not really help anybody except maybe Habana trying to break more records..

  • Comment 164, posted at 16.09.15 14:29:44 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 163) : I understand your gripe with Heyneke. I’m not even a Lions fan, but I feel exactly the same about the Lions players.

  • Comment 165, posted at 16.09.15 14:30:43 by Ben Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 164) : Whilst i do see the confidence boost of a steamroll, im also concerned that it doesnt ‘wake us up’ enough for the next games v Samoa and Scotland. I mean a pretty average World XV easily dispensed with Japan. I know in a World Cup its different but ya just some perspective. We actually need Japan to play well on Saturday…just dont beat us haha

  • Comment 166, posted at 16.09.15 14:34:47 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 164) : It’s a tough one. If we get dragged down to their level and win a tightly contested affair, how much would that hurt our confidence? You only need to win seven (I think) games to win the world cup. So confidence is very important. I think the best thing we can hope for is that both teams play to the best of their abilities and that we smash them.

  • Comment 167, posted at 16.09.15 14:34:53 by Ben Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 153) : I am a Cheetahs supporter, so no Bulls bias. I also don’t believe in that HM and blue blinkers. Ariel is unlucky to have missed out on WC selection. So is Brüssow. Whiteley, was never going to usurp Vermeulen, and Schalk is the perfect bench option. Faf exciting as he is, hit his straps a tad too late. Ruan with his versatility and his knowledge of European conditions were always going to be the go to guys. Besides, a fit Fdp, is not a player to discard so easily. When Stuart Barnes, sings a foreign players praises, there must be something there :mrgreen:

  • Comment 168, posted at 16.09.15 14:36:11 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 163) : To be fair, Jantjies did get a run, but that was after his WP stint, and maybe not as good then, as he is playing now. Whiteley was given a run too, as I said in an earlier post. Apart from that, who else would have made the cut? Franco Mostert, if PSDT didn’t make it.

  • Comment 169, posted at 16.09.15 14:39:34 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 168) :

    And your reason for not giving Mapoe a look in ? rather going with Kriel ?

    so Jesse kriel is exciting so he gets picked .

    Faf also exciting but is not offered the same luxury

    Franco Mostert doesnt even get a look in ?

    Redelinghuys ?

    Dreyer …

  • Comment 170, posted at 16.09.15 14:43:14 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 164) : @SheldonK (Comment 166) : Although, if it is a close game against Japan, that would definitely not help our confidence…

  • Comment 171, posted at 16.09.15 14:43:35 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 167) : Agreed…

  • Comment 172, posted at 16.09.15 14:44:11 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 169) : Elton played for the boks in 2011/2012 . he p[layed for the Stormers in 2013 . Have not had a bok chance since then

  • Comment 173, posted at 16.09.15 14:45:09 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 173) : I sit corrected :grin:

  • Comment 174, posted at 16.09.15 14:48:51 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @pastorshark (Comment 171) : I suppose it is difficult to take too much out of it other than just a win which is really all you need. Win 7 games by 1 point and they give you a cup…

  • Comment 175, posted at 16.09.15 14:48:59 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 174) : Kriel has probably played more bok minutes than all the Lions players combined in the last 4 years .

    so once again i ask . Why are Lions players not offered any opportunity ?

    but blue bulls kriel is hailed as the next best thing . that doesnt sit right with me . im sorry . it does not

  • Comment 176, posted at 16.09.15 14:53:28 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 170) : Not my reasons, I am not a selector. Mapoe has been playing very well. That said there will be a number of unlucky players, and just because some are Lions, doesn’t mean squat. Francois Venter has also been playing great rugby. Redelinghuys and Dreyer are unlucky too, but none of the bok props picked apart from Coenie, can really be questioned. Nyakane is a good prop, as is Malherbe. What about Kitshoff? Many players missed out and are unlucky.

  • Comment 177, posted at 16.09.15 14:54:53 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 176) : Mapoe didn’t take his opportunity. He was on the field for 2 minutes if I remember correctly. :roll:

  • Comment 178, posted at 16.09.15 14:55:37 by Ben Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 177) : How would you rank your teams in terms of your support? Cheetahs or Boks your number 1?

  • Comment 179, posted at 16.09.15 14:57:22 by Ben Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 177) : Lions players tend to be very unlucky in terms of Boks selection . but dont read to much into that :razz:

  • Comment 180, posted at 16.09.15 14:57:37 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 178) : damit yes . i keep on forgetting .. when Jessie Kriel was offered 2 minutes .. wow it was amazing :P

  • Comment 181, posted at 16.09.15 14:58:59 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 176) : I can understand you frustration. Of all the Lions players, I can understand your frustration with Kriel. He was unfortunately behind Brüssow, Coetzee and Louw in the pecking order. Kriel’s selection is justified. Mapoe, may have been as good, but Jesse, got a shot, and he took it. Can’t begrudge that.

  • Comment 182, posted at 16.09.15 14:59:21 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @Ben (Comment 178) : But enough of that from me. Serves him right for coming to the Sharks and stealing rehab for his injury! :twisted:

  • Comment 183, posted at 16.09.15 14:59:26 by Ben Reply
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  • Ackerman is a good coach. But his foundations were built by Mitchell. So I would say Mitchell as head coach and Ackerman his assistant.

  • Comment 184, posted at 16.09.15 15:01:13 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @Ben (Comment 179) : I will always support both. With the boks, I try (unsuccessfully at times) to leave provincialism out of it. Gosh, I don’t know! Have never supported another team. I guess I would probably cheer on the Cheetahs if they ever played the boks :evil:
    But always the Boks internationally.

  • Comment 185, posted at 16.09.15 15:02:50 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @Ben (Comment 183) : :lol:

  • Comment 186, posted at 16.09.15 15:03:44 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 182) : my gripe is that Lions players are not given a fair shot to show what they can do .

    While Bulls players walk into the Side left , right and center . Galant and Ulungo might be good players . But i can assure you if they were lions players they would not have been give a chance .

    this time next year Ulungo will be a bok . And ill still be wondering when Lions players will be given a fair shot

  • Comment 187, posted at 16.09.15 15:07:06 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 187) : I hear you, but if Ulengo is selected, and his form justifies it, then so be it. The scenario where Paige was selected over Faf, that would irk me too. Ruan Combrinck has been good too.

  • Comment 188, posted at 16.09.15 15:13:46 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 187) : Mapoe and Jantjes being glaring examples of Heynekes disdain for form….especially after specifically stating that away form in Australia and New Zeeland would be massively important as it would show character etc….3 wins out of 4 and not a Lion in sight…its just plain wrong….

  • Comment 189, posted at 16.09.15 15:14:13 by grant10 Reply

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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 185) : No offence, but you support the Cheetahs. I guess you would always be more willing to develop a deeper love for the Boks as they are more successful than the provincial team you support. I’m not having a go at you, it’s just human nature I guess. That’s just my opinion of course.

    For me the Sharks will always be more important than the Boks. The Currie Cup victories in 2010 and 2013 have been much sweeter to me than the World Cup in 2007.

  • Comment 190, posted at 16.09.15 15:17:40 by Ben Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 188) : you see . why is Ulengo’s form fair point for selection . but Lions players form is ignored .

  • Comment 191, posted at 16.09.15 15:19:01 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 191) : Im not saying this is the case but perhaps Lions players struggle within the Bok setup? Whitely, Mapoe, Faf and Janjies all called up to the Bok camp…Whitely was probably the Lions best player but looked pretty average in Bok colours. Not saying the others def would have as well but just an observation that perhaps what they do in Lions country differs a lot from Bok country so they struggle. A lot of guys are left out so who knows

  • Comment 192, posted at 16.09.15 15:23:11 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 192) : its hard to say because not one player was offered a fair shot in a bok jersey

  • Comment 193, posted at 16.09.15 15:29:01 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 193) : Hence my assumption that they didnt show up well at trainings etc. or didnt combine well with the preferred players in the positions around theirs. I would really hate to think that guys are excluded purely because they play for a certain team.

  • Comment 194, posted at 16.09.15 15:37:10 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 194) : if this is the case , i hope the bok setup is working with those Lions players to get them in the correct frame of mind to be included in the future .

  • Comment 195, posted at 16.09.15 15:46:19 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 190) : now my question is . why do i dislike the boks so much :P

  • Comment 196, posted at 16.09.15 15:53:13 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 195) : it may not be a mindset but just an environment and way of doing things. So perhaps what is needed going forward is more work by the bok coaches at the different franchises with the prospective players. Just using an example here…if say the Bulls and Sharks are getting their players to clear rucks in a certain way that is the same or similar to the Bok way then at Bok camps those players will catch on fairly quickly to the Bok way. If the Lions way is different then those players will take longer to adjust. I know thats a pretty black and white example and its not that simple but just trying to illustrate a possible reason. There is also the idea that certain people function better in an under dog environment than a top dog environment. Lourens Adriaanse a case in point since his Sharks signing

  • Comment 197, posted at 16.09.15 16:06:03 by SheldonK Reply

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  • I find it hard to believe that Ethebeth and Vermullen are not fit enough to play in the first game in the World Cup.Not even fit enough to come off the bench.
    This is actually a disgrace,how many games have these guys got to play themselves back into match fitness.And where do they doit against Scotland or Samoa.
    This could cost us big time.

  • Comment 198, posted at 16.09.15 16:16:59 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 198) : Its farcical

  • Comment 199, posted at 16.09.15 16:44:09 by grant10 Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 197) : But then one has to ask what makes the Lions so ‘uncoachable’ .. Cause the cheetahs dont seem to have the same issue

  • Comment 200, posted at 16.09.15 18:19:21 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 200) : HM hates Lions,there…I said it! :twisted:
    Tend to agree with you though! Alot of players still missing out for his Bull-eyed boys,imo of course…

  • Comment 201, posted at 17.09.15 03:45:30 by BarendL Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 200) : I dont think they ‘uncoachable’ at all. Im just throwing out theories here as unless we were in the selection meeting we have no idea (and i very much doubt its purely because they are Lions). I think we forget that the Lions are for lack of a better description a bunch of ‘outcasts’ and ‘misfits’ from the other unions. Yes they have gelled well and are playing some good rugby but as i said i just wonder if when in Bok camp do they either go back into their shell when other players around again or do they just not gel with those guys. Using an example…Duane Vermuelen and Francois Louw are your 2 pretty much guaranteed guys for the loose trio..yes whitely ‘should’ fit the missing hole but can he gel with those 2 guys? maybe not, hence not picked. As i said just speculating

  • Comment 202, posted at 17.09.15 07:53:18 by SheldonK Reply

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  • Look Jesse Kriel actually turned out to be a good pick, so it’s hard to argue that selection and I believe Lionel Mapoe were nursing an injury in the first few games, so Kriel was not necessarily preferred over Mapoe and just took the chances he got.

    However, if Heyneke was going to pluck a young man from “obscurity” and give him a shot at 13… should it not rather have been Harold Voster? Jesse did some great things from 15 for the Bulls and there were lost of excitement surrounding him, but he did not play in the midfield and the second half of his season was actually quite underwhelming. If I was going to pick a young player in our midfield, it would have been Voster. That would have made more sense to me.

    But Heyneke said, I know Jesse, I saw him play at school level and signed him for the Bulls at age group level…

  • Comment 203, posted at 17.09.15 08:47:20 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 203) : I am willing to bet that both Pollard and Jesse Kriel were promised at school level that if they signed for the Bulls, they were guaranteed Bok places.

  • Comment 204, posted at 17.09.15 08:52:44 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 204) : Was anyone else promised that or just those 2?

  • Comment 205, posted at 17.09.15 08:57:30 by SheldonK Reply

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  • If sommone had told me a year ago that Kirchner would be starting for the Boks in the World Cup i would not have believed him. He’s now been elevated to the number one fullback in the country.

    On the strength of what?

    One safe but very unspectacular performance against the Argies?

    Now Meyer drops De Allende so he can “nurture” the combination between Jesse and Jean. What combination? They have never actually played together before. If Heyneke needed Jean to be on the field so badly, he should have paired him with De Allende, who has proved his class, and let Jesse start in his preferred position at fullback.

    I really want the Boks to do well, but I am sorry to say I think Heyneke Meyer is a disaster.

  • Comment 206, posted at 17.09.15 09:05:53 by jonnow Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 205) : Probably Arno Botha but he couldn’t keep his body together for two consecutive games,William Small Smith,ditto,

  • Comment 207, posted at 17.09.15 09:15:02 by The hound Reply
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  • @jonnow (Comment 206) : Meyer is delusional. I see this morning he reckons du Preez is the world’s best scrumhalf. He obviously hasn’t been watching the likes of Smith, Perenara, White, Faf, etc. play for the past couple of years. They’re all miles ahead in getting quick ball to the backs, but in Meyer’s box kick and pray Lalaland game plan I suppose he’s got the right 9.

  • Comment 208, posted at 17.09.15 09:22:23 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 207) : Who was the 3rd man of that u20 loose trio..Arno Botha, CJ Stander and? Nizaam Carr? Small Smith signing for Free State has killed that deal then. What about Dries Swanepoel and Jan Serfontein?

  • Comment 209, posted at 17.09.15 09:27:25 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @jonnow (Comment 206) : Safe is being generous in my opinion. Kirchner is apparently playing some exciting rugby for his club but in that Argies game he reverted to his Don Quixote mentality: receive kick or pass and run straight at the nearest defender. I don’t consider that particularly safe.

    I’d much rather have seen Kriel used at 15 against Japan and Jean or Damian playing 13.

  • Comment 210, posted at 17.09.15 09:27:58 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 208) : Hahaha when last did he even play real rugby to say he is the best? How can someone possibly be that delusional?

  • Comment 211, posted at 17.09.15 09:29:15 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 209) : Yup Stander went straight to Ireland,must have broken Meyer’s heart.

  • Comment 212, posted at 17.09.15 09:37:07 by The hound Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 211) : Exactly. Since du Preez has been injured it hasn’t been possible to see if he’s become just as kak as most of the other Jap Club returnees.

  • Comment 213, posted at 17.09.15 09:40:05 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • One of my biggest bitches about this team is what the fuck is Schalk Britz doing there,if he is not good enough to make the bench against Japan.
    Hell he could have taken either of the young Stormers hookers and given them a start and valuable experience for the future in a Bok team at a World cup ,in this game.
    Instead we have another ageing yesterday man who hasn’t played in South Africa for years in a blazer in the stands.

  • Comment 214, posted at 17.09.15 09:44:35 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 214) : He will cover flank if any of those goes down injured

  • Comment 215, posted at 17.09.15 09:47:59 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 215) : Great idea that will surely win us the world cup, who needs Marcel anyway?

  • Comment 216, posted at 17.09.15 09:51:34 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 212) : Apparently Meyer wanted CJ to switch to hooker.

    @The hound (Comment 214) : You will notice that no young hookers have been tried for the third hooker spot during HM’s 4 years

  • Comment 217, posted at 17.09.15 09:52:29 by Baylion Reply

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  • @Seth101 (Comment 216) : Does anyone actually know if Marcel can walk yet before we want him there…i dont think they allow you to play with crutches? A metal arm guard is cool but crutches are frowned apon i think

  • Comment 218, posted at 17.09.15 09:56:39 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 215) : I thought that was why PSDT was chosen despite only playing 10 minutes of rugby in 6 months.

  • Comment 219, posted at 17.09.15 09:58:19 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 218) : Bud being match fit has nothing to do with selection in this team,Vermullen and Ethebeth can’t even make it onto the bench against Japan.

  • Comment 220, posted at 17.09.15 10:00:58 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 218) : Grade 2 Knee ligament strain, recovery time 4-6 weeks. He was injured on the 8th of August. Sorry I am awful at counting, mind telling me how long it’s been?

  • Comment 221, posted at 17.09.15 10:01:04 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 221) : Thats actually six weeks,bet you Marcel would have made it off the bench against Japan,crap argument.

  • Comment 222, posted at 17.09.15 10:04:50 by The hound Reply
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  • We have established the fact that Heyneke Meyer is a Jackass. Bitching about his selections is not gonna change his mind. So let’s just support the players and hope for the best :twisted:

  • Comment 223, posted at 17.09.15 10:06:00 by JarsonX Reply
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  • With that said….. Any other news out there like the Sharks team for this weekend slaughter?

  • Comment 224, posted at 17.09.15 10:07:20 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 222) : Let’s not forget that the All Blacks selected a player who literally broke his leg. Marcel was omitted for one reason only, and it definitely wasn’t his fitness.

  • Comment 225, posted at 17.09.15 10:07:29 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 223) : As I mention above, I am hoping for the worst so that HM isn’t given another 4 years.

  • Comment 226, posted at 17.09.15 10:08:27 by Seth101 Reply
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  • My take on HM’s selection criteria. HM only regularly select players he believes in, irrespective of age, which is why guys like Coenie, Zane, Ruan and Morne keeps getting selected, why he pulled in Victor and FdP and why he fast tracked Johan Goosen, JJ Engelbrecht, Jaco Taute, Jan Serfontein and Jesse Kriel, PSdT, etc.

    Players he doesn’t believe in like Scarra, Warren, Jaco Kriel, Franco Mostert, Jantjies, Mapoe, Francois Venter, and de Jongh will struggle to make his side no matter their form.

    Players like Marcell Coetzee, Mvovo and Lambie fall between the two groups, they are good enough as back up but not good enough to be regular starters. Lambie especially is there because his blue eyed boy young flyhalves haven’t really worked out as he had hoped so he’s a convenient back up and can be used at fullback.

    Once his blue eyed boys disappoint him he seems to take it personally and they get dumped, never to grace the stage again a la Goosen, Engelbrecht, Taute, Serfontein, Juandre Kruger

  • Comment 227, posted at 17.09.15 10:09:48 by Baylion Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 220) : @Seth101 (Comment 221) : @The hound (Comment 222) : That was the initial assessment of his injury. He is still doing rehab in Durban by all accounts so i guessing that initial assessment was wrong unless its all a cover up. If only fully fit guys got sent to the UK then Jannie Dup, Coenie Oosthuizen, Estzebeth, Matfield, PSDT, Louw, Coetzee, Vermuelen, DuPreez, DeVilliers, Pieterson, LeRoux, Frans Steyn would not have been available…

  • Comment 228, posted at 17.09.15 10:11:11 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 228) : I love watching you try and defend HM, an exercise in futility if there ever was one.

  • Comment 229, posted at 17.09.15 10:14:50 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 223) : My problem is probably a selfish one but I have very little affinity with this team.Meyer was given carte blanche and four years to transform this team,not only racially but to build a new legacy that would take our rugby into the future.
    He has done absolutely nothing and he has retreaded what failed at the last world cup,hoping it will work this time.Regardless of if it does,there s nothing in place for the future.
    Please by all that is holy I hope I don’t live to see de Villiers,Burger,Mattfield,Habbanna and du Preez being wheeled out for another World Cup.

  • Comment 230, posted at 17.09.15 10:15:15 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 228) : The injury was confirmed in Durban again after he got here. Maybe he is still doing rehab because he is in no rush to be anywhere… like the world cup! If you can rush a guy with a broken leg through rehab then you can definitely rush a strain through rehab. But no your idea was better, let us use a hooker to cover flank, winning game plan right there.

  • Comment 231, posted at 17.09.15 10:17:10 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 229) : Im not defending, jus saying i think Marcel’s injury is worse than everyone thinks. Also if only fit players were picked we would have to leave some some very influential players. Did Meyer get the selection exactly right…i dont think anyone will tell you yes. Id love to see different guys there but im also glad to see certain guys did get picked. Is his selection for the first game spot on…pretty close i reckon based on the guys there (cant exactly pick guys still in SA, well i guess u can on fantasy league but not sure u will get many points). Anyway, i guess i try to just see the best in the current situation as its not likely to change. Would my 31 and 23 man selections be different to Meyers- most probably. Different to yours- also most probably. Id just prefer to consider how we can win with who is there than worry about who isnt as there will always be guys who arent.

  • Comment 232, posted at 17.09.15 10:20:04 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 228) : Sheesh that is a terrible admission to make,we have all these guys who are not match fit, the day before the World Cup and you defend it.

  • Comment 233, posted at 17.09.15 10:20:11 by The hound Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 231) : If he is fit then he is contractually bound to be in Japan, but maybe he is fit and just prefers to hide and run on the beach in Durbs. I didnt say Brits was there to play flank…it was said why him and not a young hooker- my response was that if needed he can also cover flank which a Scarra Ntubeni prob cant. Also Brits has been playing in the UK last few years and is used to those slow wet fields.

  • Comment 234, posted at 17.09.15 10:22:50 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 233) : Defend it? all i said was that if only fully fit guys got to go then those guys would miss out. Whether thats a good, bad or pointless thing its still the truth

  • Comment 235, posted at 17.09.15 10:24:58 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 232) : Your ‘just saying’ looks remarkably similar to defending.

  • Comment 236, posted at 17.09.15 10:25:05 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 235) : So as you admit it is okay to select unfit players, what then is the justification not to select Marcel?

  • Comment 237, posted at 17.09.15 10:26:07 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Baylion (Comment 227) : That is a very good assessment,

  • Comment 238, posted at 17.09.15 10:26:08 by The hound Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 237) : If Marcel could have played any of the group games yes i would have picked him. Who would i have left out- Kolisi. Would that have been allowed…well… Do i think we need some of these non match fit guys- hell yes. Is it ideal- most def not.

  • Comment 239, posted at 17.09.15 10:29:55 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 239) : “Would that have been allowed…” and that there is in my opinion why Marcel is not in England right now.

  • Comment 240, posted at 17.09.15 10:38:00 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 239) : Well maybe if Scarra was in the squad for Brits it would have been allowed

  • Comment 241, posted at 17.09.15 10:41:15 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 241) : Excellent point

  • Comment 242, posted at 17.09.15 10:44:01 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 241) : @Seth101 (Comment 242) : ok fair point- but is Scarra really our 3rd best Hooker? He had a decent season not so long ago but still fails to convince me. For reasons we know i think it became a straight shoot out between Coetzee (assuming was fit), Burger and Alberts with only 2 to go. So also then when you consider that where would Whitely fit or even a guy like Jaco Kriel-who i feel hasnt been the best in the Lions CC side.

  • Comment 243, posted at 17.09.15 10:53:27 by SheldonK Reply

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  • Considering we would have to beat 2 of Australia,England,New Zealand even before reaching this years final..would this be the hardest cup for the Boks to win. And does the path ring similar to those of 2003 and 2011? Did we win ‘easy’ world cups?

  • Comment 244, posted at 17.09.15 10:57:50 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 243) : On current form, he is a hell of a lot closer to 3rd string hooker, than Kolisi is to a bench flank.

  • Comment 245, posted at 17.09.15 10:58:12 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 243) : If Jaantjies had gone instead of Morne Steyn,that would have given us another option.
    If you are going to take 3 scrum halves,3 hookers,3 flyhalves,then your 3 rd choice in each instance, should be a previously disadvantaged player.
    Meyer believes that his 3rd choice should be a player who has turned his back on the country and chooses to play overseas,Pienaar,Steyn,Britz.
    No wonder the majority of the population of this country are disillusioned with this team.

  • Comment 246, posted at 17.09.15 11:02:03 by The hound Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 245) : Yeh but thats like comparing apples and smarties. But i do agree with your assessment i think.
    It does propose an interesting post RWC question when you consider that Alberts, Burger and probably Louw, mayb Vermuelen wont be in contention post RWC…as well as your scrummies Pienaar,DuPreez. It means basically a brand new forwards and backs link post RWC.

  • Comment 247, posted at 17.09.15 11:05:44 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 246) : Hmm interesting way to look at it from a uniquely SA selection perspective. What do you make of the Oz tactic of 2 hookers and 2 scrummies only? and the New Zealand idea where your 3rd choice 10 is basically a utility?

  • Comment 248, posted at 17.09.15 11:08:10 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 247) : I am sure if HM gets another 4 years we will see a lot of those players again. But that is the problem, he has done 0 to build back up talent, hence we are stuck with all these oldies.

  • Comment 249, posted at 17.09.15 11:09:00 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 249) : I really dont think we are going to see teams built over 4yrs anymore. Yes same players may get picked but i think we could see a lot of chopping and changing as a result of the number of injuries happening in the game as well as guys chasing the moola before getting established etc. So whilst coaches will try be consistent i think going forward i expect to see a lot more teams picked based on form as you never know who is going to get injured. (Im referring to all teams here not just SA)

  • Comment 250, posted at 17.09.15 11:15:47 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 248) :We won our first world cup with a second flyhalf at 12 and our second with a utility at 12.
    Biggest mistake Meyer has made and shit has he made plenty,is not taking Frans Steyn.
    I still think the dust never settled properly after he walked out of that Bok camp.
    There is no argument anyone could make for choosing de Allende ,de Villliers,Kriel,Steyn,ahead of him.

  • Comment 251, posted at 17.09.15 11:17:42 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 250) : Justify, defend, justify, justify, defend……

    Take a look at the NZ Barbarians vs NZ Maori game from a month or so ago, they have more depth than they know what to do with. The exact opposite to us.

  • Comment 252, posted at 17.09.15 11:19:16 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 252) : Yeh look NZ has and will always have better depth than any nation so hard to compare with them. I just think going forward that coaches picking their preferred guys 4yrs before and building them is a thing of the past. Altho would be interesting to see Meyers team list from his first test compared to the team list for Saturday.

  • Comment 253, posted at 17.09.15 11:26:00 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 248) : To be fair though, our third flyhalf is a tool. :twisted: :twisted:

  • Comment 254, posted at 17.09.15 11:28:28 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 251) : I also would have liked Frans Steyn to go- think he offers something not a lot of guys do. And if he was injured id would have taken a guy that seems to have similar attributes- Ruan Combrinck. I would have also found space for Senatla-mayb only 2 scrumhalves. I wouldnt have taken Alberts.

  • Comment 255, posted at 17.09.15 11:29:14 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 254) : I know there probably other reasons but i think the reason Morne is picked is Meyer has him as insurance in case Lambie and Pollard cant kick straight for some reason- and they have both suffered the jips before. I also think his goal kicking ability is what got Pienaar selected over say a Reinach or Faf. I cant see Morne getting game time- other than possibly the USA game due to the short turn around.

  • Comment 256, posted at 17.09.15 11:32:29 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 253) : easy one just add Greyling,Spies,Engelbrecht, Serfonten,Potgieter,Houghaard,Morne,

  • Comment 257, posted at 17.09.15 11:32:43 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 257) : I think after ‘that’ performance Greylings name has been removed from the Bok honour roll.

  • Comment 258, posted at 17.09.15 11:36:23 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 256) : Watching a replay of the 2007 final the other day,and seeing 21 year old Frans Steyn put over that long distance drop kick,its a disgrace that at 28 years old he cannot make this squad.
    With him on the field you don’t need a flyhalf who can kick.

  • Comment 259, posted at 17.09.15 11:38:56 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 256) : I think you’re spot on with the reasoning there and I because I think I (to a degree) understand’s Meyer’s approach, I also don’t necessarily disagree with the selection. So in summary, just throw a “haha” or a smiley my way before I feel forced to start explaining my joke ;-)

  • Comment 260, posted at 17.09.15 11:47:59 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 259) : His long range kicking hasnt been the best of late but he is a lot more accurate with his short range stuff. Will be interesting to see where White plays him at Montpelier…

  • Comment 261, posted at 17.09.15 11:48:32 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 260) : Would you have taken Janjies as no.3 or a utility? For me if I kept Pienaar in the squad i would only have take 2 flyhalves to give me space to throw in a guy like Senatla or someone to that effect.

  • Comment 262, posted at 17.09.15 11:51:58 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 262) : Personally, I would have rewarded Jantjies SR form instead of playing it safe if I wanted a third flyhalf. But with both Willie and Pienaar in the squad I would have opted for either an extra utility forward like Coetzee (if fit) or Whitely or a utility back like Frans Steyn. I’m with Hound on Frans Steyn. The guy covers just about the whole backline and tends to always step-up for big games. I have no idea why he isn’t in the squad. Injured perhaps?

  • Comment 263, posted at 17.09.15 12:21:30 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 263) : yeh look the more i think about it the more i think 3 flyhalves is a luxury. Would pick a game breaker instead, whether its a loose forward or back. i think Steyn exclusion is a combo of him being injured a bit, death of his brother, tension with him and SARU etc

  • Comment 264, posted at 17.09.15 12:40:29 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 264) : I forgot about his brother. Think you’re right.

  • Comment 265, posted at 17.09.15 12:49:00 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 265) : Yeh must admit the oke has serious bad timing. Leaves a very lucrative French contract to come back to SA and then just when he does SA picks foreign players. Just starts to get some form then injured. Injury just starts to come right, brother passes away. The guys needs some luck

  • Comment 266, posted at 17.09.15 12:56:22 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 209) : Small-Smith signed for Free State?!

  • Comment 267, posted at 17.09.15 13:23:37 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 267) : Yeh im sure he has- only from Super rugby though

  • Comment 268, posted at 17.09.15 13:25:00 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 241) : Plus picking Jantjies instead of Morne would have eased that particular pressure too!

  • Comment 269, posted at 17.09.15 13:32:41 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 268) : :shock: Wow…I missed that…how did the Cheetahs get him ahead of us?

  • Comment 270, posted at 17.09.15 13:33:32 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 246) : Ah, I see you already mentioned that too…yup…

  • Comment 271, posted at 17.09.15 13:35:20 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 247) : That’s ok, though, isn’t it? I mean having new guys introduced POST world cup seems sensible to me…

  • Comment 272, posted at 17.09.15 13:37:19 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 252) : Yeah, but they have depth because they have a bigger pool of better players than we do…they don’t have that depth because the national coach developed it by giving those guys chances at national level…in fact almost none of those guys have got anywhere close to an All Blacks squad. That kind of defeats your argument…

  • Comment 273, posted at 17.09.15 13:41:18 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 270) : Well he is originally a Bloem boy remember. Also how actively did we try? @pastorshark (Comment 272) : Yeh def nothing wrong with new guys, my point was more that we need guys in those positions who link well together so that our forwards and backs combine well. So as an example a guy like whitely at 8 is a better link player than say Carr at 8. But id prob prefer Carr at 6/7 to Kolisi. Just off the top of my head examples

  • Comment 274, posted at 17.09.15 13:57:02 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @pastorshark (Comment 273) : Id love to see the All Black team list for the 1st test in 2012 compared to the team list for their game this weekend.

  • Comment 275, posted at 17.09.15 13:58:20 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @pastorshark (Comment 273) : no i disagree . People do not see lions players as part of the talent pool . i have seen a few lions players mentioned in this topic . 5/6 players would make a major difference . But they are not good enough or we would rather take experience or peaked to late or what ever else excuse is thrown at the Lions .

  • Comment 276, posted at 17.09.15 14:26:28 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 276) : Wehn you say Lions people think of the British & Irish Lions…so no wonder they dont consider you guys. Go back and call yourself Transvaal if you want to be picked…

  • Comment 277, posted at 17.09.15 14:31:43 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 277) : :lol:

    The Xerox Golden Lions :mrgreen:

  • Comment 278, posted at 17.09.15 14:38:56 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 278) : Now people think you selling Copiers or playing in the IPL. Can you blame simple rugby folk getting confused? U guys train at Johannesburg stadium and play at Ellis Park…you clearly trying to be elusive. Wearing white and red and looking like all the other gunshot victims in Jhb. No wonder nobody recognises you guys.

  • Comment 279, posted at 17.09.15 14:42:21 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 279) : :lol: :lol: hey !! the bulls played in camo one year and they still had more boks then the Xerox Golden Lions . i dont think that is a fair observation :razz:

  • Comment 280, posted at 17.09.15 14:46:55 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 280) : Yes but Camo in a blue stadium doesnt exactly hide you ;) Plus Meyer has all the Bulls players on FB so doesnt forget them. Lions players had their laptops and phones stolen in Hillbrow on the way to practice so cant stay in touch. But mayb if Chester is the next coach he will pick you guys being an ex Lion and all…

  • Comment 281, posted at 17.09.15 14:51:13 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 281) : oh boy … chester as coach … now THAT would be interesting . hahah

  • Comment 282, posted at 17.09.15 15:00:10 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 282) : Chester as head coach with Ashwin Willemse running the backs and Lawrence Sephaka the forwards. That should help get a few Lions picked…

  • Comment 283, posted at 17.09.15 15:06:54 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 218) :
    “Look who was spotted at training today in the rain. @marcell_coetzee with @1Thomasdutoit3 #sharksforever ”
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CPHkGPlW8AAKWEN.jpg

    No excuse now.

  • Comment 284, posted at 18.09.15 07:15:40 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 274) : Small-Smith is not ariginally a Bloem boy. he is a born and bred Joburg boy. He played U13 Craven Week for the Golden Lions then was lured down to attend school at Grey College in Bloem, probably on some form of rugby scholarship.

  • Comment 285, posted at 18.09.15 07:28:38 by jonnow Reply

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  • @jonnow (Comment 285) : That i didnt know. Well i knew the Grey College part not the junior school part.

  • Comment 286, posted at 18.09.15 07:55:47 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Seth101 (Comment 284) : That is very interesting as by all accounts he is required to report to Japan when fit. So someone is pulling the wool over someones eyes. The plot thickens haha

  • Comment 287, posted at 18.09.15 07:57:10 by SheldonK Reply

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