robdylan

Battered Boks need to hit the “reset” button


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, RWC 2015, Springboks on 22 Sep 2015 at 10:41
Tagged with : , , , , , , , , , , ,

A good friend of mine (and I think you know who I’m talking about) likes to talk about team culture a lot – and in particular, refers often to a team having a “default play” or trusted go-to move or style that they know in their sleep and can always count on to get them out of a slump. Heyneke Meyer’s somewhat schizophrenic Springboks have lost their way quite comprehensively over the last 12 months and while it may not be an overly popular suggestion, I feel they need to go back to what has worked for them in the past – and do so quickly.

Springbok team culture – what does it mean? What does it signify? Ask Jake White. Ask Peter de Villiers, even and both will tell you that when they were successful, it was on the back of a very conservative gameplan that played to the strengths of the average South African player. We all remember de Villers and even Carel du Plessis before him, taking over the Bok reigns with big talk about “all out attacking rugby”. De Villiers changed that plan pretty damn quickly after 6 months in the job – and du Plessis may well have done the same had he lasted that long. White barely strayed from the “Jakeball” blueprint during his tenure and continues to build his teams around it even today, with a dominant pack and conservative flyhalf ensuring that play remains in the right areas of the field. Defensive pressure forces turnover tries, forward dominance supplies penalties and the results take care of themselves.

The good new, for Meyer, is that he has hardly dared to step outside of those confines himself – at least, not selection wise. Widely lambasted (and lampooned) for picking an old squad, Meyer has in his hands a large contingent of players left over from World Cup campaigns under both White and de Villiers and faced with an immediate need to simply “get out of the pool” after the Japan fiasco, simply has to find a way to win the next three games. Attractive, exciting rugby and all that jazz simply has to take a back seat and Meyer has to remember that he actually has a “Plan B”, make it his “Plan A” and furiously re-plan in the background while his team gets on with playing the way they know how to.

The Boks probably don’t have a squad (either playing or coaching) that is going to challenge for the World Cup this year. I think we know that and the failure to build such a squad is what will ultimately cost this coach his job. I do not believe that the Boks, even playing low-risk, forward-oriented rugby, will challenge the likes of England, Australia or New Zealand at the moment, but they do have the blueprint and the personnel they need to account for Samoa, Scotland and the USA, which should see them still top Group B.

Mayer needs to make some tough choices, though – since while I say he needs to revert to a pattern that works, he cannot afford to carry passengers. Victor Matfield and Jean de Villiers need to take a back seat, with one of Duane Vermeulen or Fourie du Preez a must to captain the side. Other changes should see Morne Steyn back at flyhalf in tandem with du Preez, while JP Pietersen (who is the most experienced defender in that position) must come into the 13 jersey. Howls of protest there will be, but Zane Kirchner remains the best option at fullback under this pattern, while the game-breaking abilities of Willie le Roux and Jesse Kriel can better be used off the wing and bench respectively.



122 Comments

  • M Steyn at 10 will be the last straw for me…..I will go out and buy an Irish flag…..

  • Comment 1, posted at 22.09.15 10:48:40 by grant10 Reply
    Super Rugby player
     
  • eish Rob the truth hurts….

    as supporters we need to accept what is most likely and bite our tongues for now. Ask any Sharks fan currently, a fugly win is better than no win at all

  • Comment 2, posted at 22.09.15 10:49:03 by Kabouter Reply
    KabouterCurrie Cup player
     
  • Going back to a conservative game plan will see the same old results….

  • Comment 3, posted at 22.09.15 10:51:00 by grant10 Reply
    Super Rugby player
     
  • Very sensible article Rob. And i agree. We need to see some aggressive close combat from the Boks. Pick and drive all day long. If we are going to kick make sure its high and contested as we dont want them having time to run it back. Risk free, flair free rugby. And take the points on offer.

  • Comment 4, posted at 22.09.15 10:51:06 by SheldonK Reply
    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @grant10 (Comment 1) : personally I think Pollard is more likely to be chosen but Pat might not get much more game time.

    that is what will hurt the most as Schalk played flyhalf for almost the entire game and Pat was just a token on the field

  • Comment 5, posted at 22.09.15 10:51:54 by Kabouter Reply
    KabouterCurrie Cup player
     
  • @grant10 (Comment 3) : another QF exit vs England or Aus

  • Comment 6, posted at 22.09.15 10:52:47 by Kabouter Reply
    KabouterCurrie Cup player
     
  • is that not the type of rugby we’ve been playing all along? Are you trying to tell me the crap we saw on Saturday was the boks’ attempt at running rugby?

    matfield and the rest of the forwards standing in the flyhalf position is to me, not running rugby! It is the typical SA crash ball rugby that we’ve always been playing. How many creative backline moves did we see? None!

    It boggles my mind what Ricardo Loubser is actually getting paid for!?

  • Comment 7, posted at 22.09.15 10:53:09 by Leeubok Reply
    LeeubokVodacom Cup player
     
  • Problem is too many of the best players that may have been able to assist are not in the squad…..that 31 Bok squad is so unblanced, old and injured it borders on the criminal….

  • Comment 8, posted at 22.09.15 10:56:03 by grant10 Reply
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  • @Kabouter (Comment 6) : If we get out Pool….I am really worried about the Scots …I have a gut feel we will beat the Samoans….

  • Comment 9, posted at 22.09.15 11:01:00 by grant10 Reply
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  • @grant10 (Comment 9) : we bloody better! I paid a fortune with the weak Rand to go and watch the QF and SF. I have given up on seeing the Boks in the SF but will be really peef’d if I watch Scotland vs England in the QF.

    anyhoo, has anyone seen the pro HM Brendan Nel claim that JDV deliberately ignored HM instructions on field…. Is there any truth or just a smoke screen for a mate?

  • Comment 10, posted at 22.09.15 11:05:06 by Kabouter Reply
    KabouterCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Leeubok (Comment 7) : It def wasnt ‘running rugby’ (although i hate that term) and it definitely wasnt keeping it tight and risk free. It was lazy rugby to be fair. Boks thought they would just bash through the japs at any point- hence the forwards standing off the rucks and wanting to try bash through. The Boks did no hard yards up front. When the ball actually got past the forwards it was just passed wide with nobody in the backline taking the initiative to run a dummy line or put a grubber in or anything. It was lazy rugby as a result of complacency and unfortunately the Boks cough that up far too much.

  • Comment 11, posted at 22.09.15 11:06:06 by SheldonK Reply
    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • The Boks are like gamers trying to run Crysis 3 on a Pentium 4 with onboard graphics. No amount of resetting will make a shred of difference until the hardware has been upgraded.

  • Comment 12, posted at 22.09.15 11:06:24 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 12) : wahahahahahahahahaha

    :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz: :razz:

    comment of the day!

  • Comment 13, posted at 22.09.15 11:08:03 by Kabouter Reply

    KabouterCurrie Cup player
     
  • If Jakeball is what we need, then, much as I hate to say this, Lambie should be 15. His decision making and defense is far superior to Nik Naks

  • Comment 14, posted at 22.09.15 11:08:09 by Die Kriek Reply

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  • @Kabouter (Comment 10) : Apparently senior boks did not play according to HM instructions. Who they are I am not sure of.

  • Comment 15, posted at 22.09.15 11:10:29 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Die Kriek (Comment 14) : I tend to agree there, make Lambie 15, MS flyhalf. Infact I would make sure Jdv gets on the next plane home and get FS there as soon as possible. As much as we all love the creative play from JK, he just cannot tackle. Damion also has some question marks to his defensive work.

  • Comment 16, posted at 22.09.15 11:12:29 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • I feel really torn about this plan. Rob makes perfect sense and one can’t fault the thinking in this regard, but to fall back to that game plan just makes me feel like we are going to go backwards again. I’d love for the Boks to do well this world cup, do a come back like France in 2011 or England in 2007, but feel that would only hurt us more in the long run.

    If the Boks are not going to push for this title I’d rather see us get sent home at the QF or SF and have us as a rugby nation realise this choosing experience or letting good defence win games mentality die. I want the Boks to be the worlds best and I just can’t see us beating New Zealand and Australia in Australia regularly with that mentality.

    As for RWC 2015, I think Jean and Matfield have a place but it’s off the bench for the last 15 – 20 min of a game, They’ll have fresh legs and hopefully that will even the playing field with regard to younger fitter opposition. There is place for experience but I feel its at the end when the pressure is at it’s most intense.

  • Comment 17, posted at 22.09.15 11:12:29 by Hulk Reply

    HulkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Hulk (Comment 17) : The same two guys who could not handle the pressure in the last 20 against Japan? There are a few more names to add to that list.

  • Comment 18, posted at 22.09.15 11:14:18 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 15) : hmm, based on TV coverage you only saw Matfield, JdV and Schalk…

  • Comment 19, posted at 22.09.15 11:18:02 by Kabouter Reply

    KabouterCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 15) : where did he write that?

  • Comment 20, posted at 22.09.15 11:19:41 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 18) : I don’t think they are fit enough and fatigue does funny things to the brain. I feel they are experienced campaigners and can add value. Look at Schalk when he starts and when he comes off the bench. I always feel his best performances are off the bench and I think it’s because he’s fresh and the opposition he’s running at are fatiguing so that’s does even out the age issue (somewhat anyways).

  • Comment 21, posted at 22.09.15 11:23:58 by Hulk Reply

    HulkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 20) : its in Beeld yesterday and Brendan Nel wrote it on Supersport website

  • Comment 22, posted at 22.09.15 11:24:26 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 20) : http://www.supersport.com/rugby/springboks/news/150922/The_big_call_Do_you_drop_Jean

  • Comment 23, posted at 22.09.15 11:26:41 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Hulk (Comment 21) : If they not fit enough they should not be there period.

  • Comment 24, posted at 22.09.15 11:27:35 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Kabouter (Comment 10) : i am not sure….I thought Matfield was quite loud during the game…..who knows in that farce masquerading as Bok rugby anymore…

  • Comment 25, posted at 22.09.15 11:31:37 by grant10 Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • @Leeubok (Comment 7) : That is our expansive gameplan. Our default is when the flyhalf (preferably Steyn) plays at 10 and kicks the hell out of the ball.

  • Comment 26, posted at 22.09.15 11:33:46 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @grant10 (Comment 25) : What worries me the most is who is actually the captain? I watched some of the game again last night and when we get our first penalty the first thing JdV does is walk to Vic and ask him what we should do.

  • Comment 27, posted at 22.09.15 11:33:53 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 27) : yeh precisely 1 of the problems…too many captains on the field and none leading effectively

  • Comment 28, posted at 22.09.15 11:37:21 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 12) : That is possibly the best way to put it. :lol: :lol: :lol: Ahhh I laugh as reality is way too sad…at this rate I might as well cancel DSTV.

  • Comment 29, posted at 22.09.15 11:39:36 by Farlington Reply

    FarlingtonSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Farlington (Comment 29) : Switched mine on just for the WC, already canceled it.

  • Comment 30, posted at 22.09.15 11:40:17 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • There’s a lot of sense in what you’re saying Rob. Whether the coaches see it the same way is an all together different question.

  • Comment 31, posted at 22.09.15 11:41:48 by vanmartin Reply
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  • As much as Morne at 10 and Zane at 15 sounds like a calm decisive decision. Playing Morne after not 1 minute bok rugby in 18 months would border on desperate.

    The players that played badly need to be replaced by the guys that have been in form all this time. Once someone picks up a niggle send for the few in form players that was left behind.

    Jean is the first who needs to be dropped. Bring in Damian.

    The team that played AUS and NZ actually played well for large parts of those games.

    Marcell and Flouw together, was excellent, as well as Brussouw and Marcell (the Aussies are doing the same thing with Hooper). We need the guys to get to the breakdown quicker. Schalk and Victor lingers in the bakline. If Duane is ready, we need to see Duane, Kolisi/PSDT/Willem, Flouw. And Lood has to start with Eben.

    Fourie has to start and I feel like Paige would add more than Ruan has. I would still start Lambie, as he is accurate, can execute a conservative and more attacking game plan and makes sound decisions. Pollard for the last 20 or 30.

    Jean needs to go home. He looks sickly and not ready to be involved in a WC. He adds nothing to this team. He is so desperate to prove that he belongs that it seems like the team are trying to protect him and lift him up. His frantic screaming at teammates, instead of keeping them together and calming them down, also couldn’t help in situations like impending upsets. Damian needs to start.

    I don’t mind seeing JPP next to Damian, but believe Jesse and Damian makes a good combination and has not yet deliver a bad game. Willie should start in place of any of the back three… all of them was just save, Habana too mee, the worst of the three.

  • Comment 32, posted at 22.09.15 11:47:57 by Letgo Reply
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  • Regardless of the latest result… what has Meyer achieved during his 4 years in charge? He has not really painted him self in glory and well looks like the next person to take over will almost have to build from scratch.

  • Comment 33, posted at 22.09.15 11:53:01 by Farlington Reply

    FarlingtonSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Kabouter (Comment 5) : Maybe if De Allende had played at 12 there would have been no need for Burger, Lood to play at flyhalf.

  • Comment 34, posted at 22.09.15 11:54:22 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Farlington (Comment 33) : very little, even with his default, antiquated rugby.

  • Comment 35, posted at 22.09.15 11:57:33 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • I’d go

    15. L Mvovo, 14. W Le Roux, 13. J Kriel, 12. D de Allende, 11. B Habana, 10. P Lambie, 9. F Du Preez (C), 8. D Vermeulen (VC)/ S Kolisi, 7. W Alberts/ S Kolisi/ PSDT, 6. F Louw (VC), 5. L De Jager, 4. E Etzebeth, 3. J De Plessis, 2. B Du Plessis, 1. T Nayakane

    T Mtawarira, F Malherbe, A Strauss, V Matfield, S Kolisi/ PSDT, R Paige, H Pollard, JP Pietersen

    Compared to suggested

    15. Z Kirchner, 14. W le Roux/ J Kriel, 13. JP Pietersen, 12. D De Allende, 11. B Habana, 10. M Steyn, 9. F Du Preez (C), 8. D Vermeulen (VC), / S Burger, 7. W Alberts/ S Burger 6. F Louw (VC), 5. L De Jager, 4. E Etzebeth, 3. J De Plessis, 2. B Du Plessis, 1. T Mtawarira

    T Nyakane, F Malherbe, A Strauss, V Matfield, S Kolisi/ PSDT, R Pienaar, H Pollard, P Lambie/ J de Villiers

  • Comment 36, posted at 22.09.15 12:05:34 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 24) : Fair enough. Granted where I’m going with this is an older player who may not have a full 80 minutes in him can still play a roll, but in my opinion is a bench roll and not a starting one. Experienced players usually deliver at crunch times more so then the less experienced. I agree that JDV really shouldn’t be there as he just isn’t at the level he should be, he probably rushed himself back. Matfield is probably drained and needs a rest. The point I was trying to make was don’t throw the older guys away because they can’t play full games, keep them round in a bench and support player roll. Experienced guys usually have a calming effect and that’s what I would like to see our bench doing in the last 20 minutes.

  • Comment 37, posted at 22.09.15 12:29:30 by Hulk Reply

    HulkSuper Rugby player
     
  • Heyneke Meyer and plan in the same sentence? :roll:

  • Comment 38, posted at 22.09.15 12:42:05 by Ben Reply
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  • @Hulk (Comment 37) : Yeh good point.

  • Comment 39, posted at 22.09.15 12:45:25 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Hulk (Comment 37) : I see where you coming from. However I don’t think these old farts can inject explosiveness to the team in the last 20, that’s something we really need. I am not saying get green players in the team. Just that there needs to be a balance between experience as well as youth from the player that you maybe sending on. Too old is not good, neither is too young. However Depending on the game either may work.
    Lets take Habana for example, He would be worth more to me in the last 20 at the age of 25 even 27 than at his current age of 32, no matter what his experience is currently at compared to 25/27.
    I think having some old guard in the squad is a good thing especially for the younger players who has little to no experience. But we need players in the team who is young with experience, to be able to bring that explosiveness to the team when things are looking tough. Currently we lack those type of players, we currently only sitting with players who are able to bring experience.

  • Comment 40, posted at 22.09.15 12:47:16 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 38) : Maak al die bulle ama-bokko, They Said, We will beat Japan They Said….

  • Comment 41, posted at 22.09.15 12:49:04 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 40) : I dont think we can say all older players wouldnt be good off the bench. I think guys like Matfield, Jannie, DuPreez and possibly Burger(provided he doesnt act like the retard on sat) could offer value. However i dont think guys like DeVilliers, Habana, Pieterson, Pienaar would add much off the bench.

  • Comment 42, posted at 22.09.15 12:56:02 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Kabouter (Comment 5) : I agree about the incredible sulk (Schalk) spending way to much time at number 10 (and infact all that ball time made him look like a below average player) in fact our back line was almost exclusively run by forwards. I don’t think we should throw away pat we needed to set up proper backline with the flyhalf making the choice and giving him the option to use a pod of forwards behind the gap of 10 and 12 or a kick so at least our opposition has some guess work to do to figure out how to stop us… rather then the game plan of tackle the big guy with the ball who wont pass.

    basically what Arg and France did to there oppositions. if done well makes the attacking side look like they can score with ease.

  • Comment 43, posted at 22.09.15 12:57:29 by Warren Harvey Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @Warren Harvey (Comment 43) : Do you perhaps think that with a scrumhalf clearing the ruck ball quicker such as DuPreez or Paige the forwards wouldnt have a chance to get into the flyhalf channel and would then have to play off the 10?

  • Comment 44, posted at 22.09.15 13:02:32 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 32) : Give that Lass a bells. I could not agree more… is there a place for me to sign to get you to head the Boks selection committee???

  • Comment 45, posted at 22.09.15 13:04:02 by Warren Harvey Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • “while JP Pietersen (who is the most experienced defender in that position) must come into the 13 jersey”

    I just choked on my lunch!! :shock: :shock: :shock: JP must go nowhere near the 13 jersey…he was appalling there for the Sharks!

  • Comment 46, posted at 22.09.15 13:04:20 by ChrisS Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 44) : I wont lie I am a Pienaar fanboy but his redeeming attributes no longer excuse his slow service and would say a Scrummy change is in order, but I don’t think it would help the forwards out of the flyhalf channel that must have been a definte game plan which should be ABOLISHED and the page torn from the play book. at no point should a coach advocate a forward in the line unless it is during defence.

    Don’t get me wrong there is nothing better for a forward like receiving clean ball and running into some space (as a front row forward I find it a most liberating feeling, like putting your head out of car window) but the downside is forwards love to run at a player rather than just of the wrong shoulder and also there is a reason they are in the forwards its because they lack the skills /vision and speed to be in the blessed position.

  • Comment 47, posted at 22.09.15 13:12:39 by Warren Harvey Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @ChrisS (Comment 46) : what else do you do/ Meyer forgot to pick an outside center in his squad….

  • Comment 48, posted at 22.09.15 13:13:36 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 40) : Before his come back I was of the opinion the JDV was the best defensive centre in the country and I thought bringing him on to close out games (such as the NZ & Aus games this year) would have been a masterstroke. I now believe if he is ever to add value to the Boks again he needs game time at a lower level, sadly he is probably out of time. I feel Schalk can add value off the bench (remember his performance against Oz in Cape Town 2013) but he needs to get involved at ruck time and do what a flanker is meant to do, not play flyhalf. The problem we face at the moment is there seems to be a big gap between our young guns and the experienced guys, there are few 20 something year old guys who are in form and have 3-4 years experience. I can’t say I know of to many guys who debuted in 2012 and are still in the squad, Etzebeth? Duane, Lood and Willie debuted in 2013 I think and who else?? So 4 guys. Otherwise we’ve got players who debuted in the 2003 – 2007 period.

  • Comment 49, posted at 22.09.15 13:14:39 by Hulk Reply

    HulkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Warren Harvey (Comment 47) : Fair point, but if they run off the 10 then they can gather up more steam and perhaps actually gain some yards- but then we need other guys on their shoulder to ensure quick ball again. No use 1 guy running and the rest watching which is what happened Sat. We got slow ball so then just kick it straight to them.

  • Comment 50, posted at 22.09.15 13:19:45 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 48) : He also forgot an inside center… but maybe he is relying on the old combination for winning SA side… have a lock at 8th man and have flyhalf at inside center. which is maybe why SA doesn’t send the ball down the line….

  • Comment 51, posted at 22.09.15 13:20:45 by Warren Harvey Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @Warren Harvey (Comment 51) : So a 9/10/12/13 of DuPreez,Lambie,Pollard,DeAllende?

  • Comment 52, posted at 22.09.15 13:25:35 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Hulk (Comment 49) : I fear that the RWC is not the worst of our problems. What will happen in the next few years to come? Where are the players that must take SA forward? Meyer kept relying on the “experienced players” instead of investing in the young ones and allow them the opportunity to gain experience at this level.

  • Comment 53, posted at 22.09.15 13:33:51 by Farlington Reply

    FarlingtonSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Farlington (Comment 53) : That’s where I was going in the long run with this, you just happen to put it so much better than I could. We have kept the old boys and chopped and changed the young guys and now we sit with lots of young players with few caps. I feel at the end of this world cup we need to sweep the cupboard clean. Decide which older guys can add serious value and thank the rest and let them go. I hope to see us build a squad like Hansen has done and like Jake White did through 2003 – 2007.

  • Comment 54, posted at 22.09.15 13:44:15 by Hulk Reply

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  • @Farlington (Comment 53) : Look no further than the Lions team! :grin:

  • Comment 55, posted at 22.09.15 13:50:32 by Leeubok Reply

    LeeubokVodacom Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 52) :

    I believe a 9/10/12/13 of DuPreez, Lambie, DeAllende, Kriel as I am of the belief that it take a certain mindset to play a position on the rugby field and its not as easy as one would think to be able to play more then one position to your full.

    but i have a sneaky feeling that if HM is brave enough to bench JvD we will see a [DuPreez,Lambie,Pollard,DeAllende] my nightmare is he will not bench JvD and we land up with [DuPreez, Lambie, Pollard, JdV].

    but that still beats [Pienaar, Skalk, Matfield, Straus].

  • Comment 56, posted at 22.09.15 13:54:35 by Warren Harvey Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @Farlington (Comment 53) : @Hulk (Comment 54) : Well looking forward: 1. Kitshoff 2.Ntubeni 3. Malherbe 4. Etzebeth 5. De Jaager 6. Kolisi 7. Carr 8. Whiteley 9. Reinach 10. Lambie 11. Mvovo 12. Serfontein 13. DeAllende 14. Hougaard 15. Kriel….thats just off the top of my head guys that are capped

  • Comment 57, posted at 22.09.15 13:55:51 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Warren Harvey (Comment 56) : Whilst i do agree that in certain positions its not that easy to shift around. I also believe that if you have certain attributes that would suit the other position and it is not that vastly different that you can exceed at it.

  • Comment 58, posted at 22.09.15 13:57:41 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 57) : Hmmm, definitely not the team I would go forward with! So no space in your team for a guy like Jaco Kriel? I don’t rate Carr or Kolisi at all. And you rate Reinach (who was terrible against the Lions again) higher than someone like Faf?

    Also, what has Serfontein done recently to warrant a bok call up? The in form centres in the country should be de allende and Kriel as bok starters, with Mapoe on the bench.

  • Comment 59, posted at 22.09.15 13:59:40 by Leeubok Reply

    LeeubokVodacom Cup player
     
  • Looking forward I would go with these players:
    Front row, no one other than the WP and Lions front rows.
    Locks – Eben, Lood, Mostert, PSDT
    Loosies – WW, J. Kriel, Brussow, Duane, Kolisi, Tecklenburg(very underrated!)
    Scrummie – Faf, Reinach, Hougie
    Flyhalf – Lambie, Pollard, Elton
    Centres – De allende, Kriel, Mapoe, P. Jordaan, Vorster (someone for the future)
    Wings – Combrinck, Mvovo, Senatla, Hendricks
    Fullback – Willie ( no one else is sticking up their hand, but andries coetzee is quite solid, but that may be my biased opinion)

  • Comment 60, posted at 22.09.15 14:06:53 by Leeubok Reply

    LeeubokVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Hulk (Comment 54) : That has always been my worry with HM I mean he was blooding players last month and still managed to take a player who hasn’t played an international. we need a coach that is brave enough to loose a few games over the next 12 to 18 months with a more or less working game plan (we know HM is pretty good at the loosing and taking it on his shoulders) but build up combinations of players who will be 24 – 29 next world cup then at the end of 2017 take the combinations you are happy with and start hammering the wrinkles out of game plan during 2017/2018.

    In fact last year he needed to make sure that clubs were using the partial game plan already and that they has sufficient youngsters (never mind the whole racial requirements which is another debacle) and may offering carrots for teams that take the time to give experience to younger sides.

    the only positive from the sharks predicament is it puts SA in good stead for 2019 as they have needed to get some youngsters up to speed this year.

  • Comment 61, posted at 22.09.15 14:12:28 by Warren Harvey Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @Leeubok (Comment 60) : @SheldonK (Comment 57) : There are a lot of quality young guys we can push forward with but whoever the coach is and if it is Meyer, he needs to be brave enough to back his players and not bring in “experienced” players or beg someone out of retirement again. To add a few more young guys, Koch, Thomas the Tank, I liked the look of Paige too.

  • Comment 62, posted at 22.09.15 14:17:34 by Hulk Reply

    HulkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 48) : hahaha wonder if he took the Sharks medical team with to sort out all the injured players as I don’t think the Bokke currently have enough medical personnel to handle the walking wounded!!!!

  • Comment 63, posted at 22.09.15 14:25:25 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
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  • @Leeubok (Comment 59) : If u noticed after the team i said its off the top of my head based on guys that DO have Bok caps… I didtn make mention of my preference or the best just those those ‘young’ guys had caps

  • Comment 64, posted at 22.09.15 14:25:41 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Hulk (Comment 62) : Yeh look there are many guys out there that could possibly play. The team i said was just guys i could think of quickly that had Bok caps. Kitshoff i was a bit unsure of but included anyway- can be Nyakane if we want to get technical. Point is there are guys that have played that can start us off with the addition of other in form guys

  • Comment 65, posted at 22.09.15 14:27:45 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Leeubok (Comment 60) : Marcell Coetzee? :shock:

  • Comment 66, posted at 22.09.15 14:29:35 by Ben Reply
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  • Quick question. Japan or Scotland to win??

  • Comment 67, posted at 22.09.15 14:39:38 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 67) : Scotland

  • Comment 68, posted at 22.09.15 14:43:21 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli BoelieTeam captain
     
  • @JarsonX (Comment 67) : Scotland by 15-20. They will come in prepared

  • Comment 69, posted at 22.09.15 14:44:17 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • Thought as much, :grin:

  • Comment 70, posted at 22.09.15 14:50:59 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @Warren Harvey (Comment 45) :

    No not head coach – gunning for head of selectors :smile: (and to create such a position), where I’d select the squad and management who will take the Boks forward. :smile: :smile: :smile:

    Eddie Jones, Ackers, Mallet are some of the coaches on my wishlist.

  • Comment 71, posted at 22.09.15 14:59:34 by Letgo Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 67) :

    Scotland by at least 10.

  • Comment 72, posted at 22.09.15 15:00:04 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Leeubok (Comment 59) :

    I don’t agree that Reinach was terrible against the Lions. He’s starting to do the basics more and more accurately and crisply. Yes, he is still a little rusty and sometimes takes bad options, but I honestly don’t believe he’s as terrible as some make him out to be.

  • Comment 73, posted at 22.09.15 15:05:14 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 73) : I would rather have Reinach a 100 times before both FDP and RP….

  • Comment 74, posted at 22.09.15 15:08:32 by grant10 Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • @Leeubok (Comment 55) : And I won’t have too much of a problem with that. There is a number of Lions players I feel should be part of the current Bok group but alas. Ackerman also build a team over a period and lost a number of games before “almost finished product” (With that I mean they will only get better). Ok I do think that Mitchell had something to do with the team as well so have to give some credit to him.

  • Comment 75, posted at 22.09.15 15:21:40 by Farlington Reply

    FarlingtonSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Warren Harvey (Comment 61) : Sadly HM wasted 4 years to end up with a team not so different from the one in the 2011 RWC.

    But who knows, perhaps this is his ploy? Finish second in the group, win the QF, avoid NZL in the Semi and face them in an epic final. Yes that is what I choose to believe. Also the Sharks to finish strong and take the 2015 CC.

  • Comment 76, posted at 22.09.15 15:25:26 by Farlington Reply

    FarlingtonSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 73) : How can the Chosen one still not preform? When he supposedly had so much potential.

  • Comment 77, posted at 22.09.15 15:36:12 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli BoelieTeam captain
     
  • @Farlington (Comment 76) : The Sharks can’t even ‘take’ their jerseys when they play a warm up game. How are they going to take the Currie Cup? :twisted:

  • Comment 78, posted at 22.09.15 15:47:30 by Ben Reply
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  • You had me curious until you said Kirchner who is himself not a spring chicken. I would go Lambie at fullback or even Kriel instead. Pat has had his chance thanks to last weeks debacle….so even at fullback he has a chance to show his skils.

  • Comment 79, posted at 22.09.15 16:06:35 by Sharkfinn Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @Farlington (Comment 76) : if he wanted to finish second he needed to beat Japan and lose to Scotland

  • Comment 80, posted at 22.09.15 16:07:35 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 77) :

    Your bias opinion on Reinach makes it impossible to have a constructive discussion regarding his form.

    I believe Reinach is a talented player and would have liked to see him at RWC ahead of Paige/Ruan. He and Lambie combine well on the EOYT and every time they were give 20 min or more during RC 2014.

    I don’t think Reinach is half as bad as everyone here likes to believe. If youcan stomach it, watch any of his last 3 games again. His service to his backs are clean and his kicking good. He’s not as sharp as before the injury, but he’s getting there.

    I think with Reinach it’s more a likability thing than actually rating the player. That’s all I can think of.

  • Comment 81, posted at 22.09.15 16:09:30 by Letgo Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 80) :

    Yeah, but you forget that we’re still planning to draw/lose against Scotland/Samoa.

  • Comment 82, posted at 22.09.15 16:11:38 by Letgo Reply
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  • FDP is finished …he avoided all contact Saturday….the Samoans will see what I saw, an old man with a poor attitude and no appetite for the rough stuff….

  • Comment 83, posted at 22.09.15 16:19:16 by grant10 Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • @grant10 (Comment 83) :

    Have felt like that myself for ages. I just dont geddit.
    People still describing himj as the best in the world. When the man can hardly walk.

  • Comment 84, posted at 22.09.15 16:50:37 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 84) :

    Sadly, i think its only the dearth of quality at 9 in SA that is making both him and Ruan seem decent.

    ITs so sad actually, SA always used to produce amazing scrummies.

  • Comment 85, posted at 22.09.15 16:57:43 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSawTeam captain
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 85) : Faf, Reinach, Hougaard , Sarel Prinsloo and Vermaak all better than FDP and Ruan…

  • Comment 86, posted at 22.09.15 20:58:34 by grant10 Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • Shuffling deckchairs Rob…

  • Comment 87, posted at 22.09.15 21:04:48 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @grant10 (Comment 86) : You can add Claassens to that list.

  • Comment 88, posted at 22.09.15 22:16:33 by MysticShark Reply
    Competition Winner
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  • LEAKED BOK TEAM ACCORDING TO THE AFRIKAANS PRESS
    WLR….JP PIETERSEN….JDV….DE ALLENDE….HABANA….POLLARD…FDP…VERMEULEN…SCHALK….F LOUW…MATFIELD…EBEN….JANNIE…BISSY….BEAST,,,,

  • Comment 89, posted at 23.09.15 06:43:51 by grant10 Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 84) : The rating best scrumhalf in the world was 4 years ago when HM took over coincidentally. People should go update their browsers or use Google recent results features there ain’t no way he is better than current world class performers and most people have also now gotten used to his box kick 8 out of 9 times. That only works in bulls rugby which even the bulls have now abandoned.

  • Comment 90, posted at 23.09.15 07:34:36 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • What did Mvovo do to deserve being dropped? I knew Heyneke was setting up Lambie for a fall…..and here it happens….

    lOOD gets the bullet….for being the best forward in Boks all year long!!!

    No man Heyneke…this is just not right….If you needed Matfield so badly to start Eben should have been benched, that is how well Lood has been playing!

  • Comment 91, posted at 23.09.15 07:41:19 by grant10 Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • @grant10 (Comment 91) : Agree that Lood should be starting against Samoa. I won’t say anything more about JDV, but feel that centre combination isn’t the best choice (hopefully I’m proven wrong) and I would have liked Lambie to be given 1 final chance. He needs to stamp his authority on the game or let Pollard try to do that. I’ve always believed Lambie is Test match material but other than a few outstanding performances for the Boks he’s only ever been solid. We all know he can be amazing. JP starting makes no sense to me and it send the wrong message to all the hard working wingers in the country.

  • Comment 92, posted at 23.09.15 07:52:49 by Hulk Reply

    HulkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Hulk (Comment 92) : Heyneke must be the worst selector I have ever seen…..truly…He is simply clueless….

  • Comment 93, posted at 23.09.15 07:55:18 by grant10 Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • Probable Springboks – 15 Willie le Roux, 14 Bryan Habana, 13 Jean de Villiers (c), 12 Damian de Allende, 11 JP Pietersen, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Fourie du Preez, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Schalk Burger, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Victor Matfield, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Beast Mtawarira.
    Subs: 16 Adriaan Strauss,17 Trevor Nyakane, 18 Frans Malherbe, 19 Lood de Jager, 20 Siya Kolisi, 21 Rudy Paige, 22 Morné Steyn, 23 Jesse Kriel.

  • Comment 94, posted at 23.09.15 08:05:46 by grant10 Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • So Mvovo and Lambie get the Grandstand treatment…..based on what Heyneke??

  • Comment 95, posted at 23.09.15 08:06:31 by grant10 Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • I would have dropped JDV….Matfield….Ruan and FDP….Beasrt and Jannie….Kirchner….

    Mvovo and Lood droppings border on the criminal….

  • Comment 96, posted at 23.09.15 08:24:36 by grant10 Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • @grant10 (Comment 95) : Based on Heineke own poor gameplan and mismanagement. The whole team misfires but he targets those who were not in his master plan all along. This guy is a donkey we have seen it for 4 years now his ego above all. Lood probably the only forward worth anything last week Pollard in, why? With last week’s gameplan he would have struggled just as much if not more.

  • Comment 97, posted at 23.09.15 08:28:31 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 97) : And JP is the same slug as we saw in super 14.

  • Comment 98, posted at 23.09.15 08:29:16 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 81) : And I suppose your unbiased? With all due respect, he is not what we need to go forward. Since he took over at the Sharks, not only the sharks have suffered due to his game, but also Lambie, Lambie has never been his normal self since McLeod left. You as a big Lambie fan should know this. The two DO NOT GEL.

  • Comment 99, posted at 23.09.15 08:37:13 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli BoelieTeam captain
     
  • @grant10 (Comment 89) : If right thats pretty harsh on Lood, Lambie and Kriel. Some may argue Kriel kissed a tackle- yes he missed 1. JDV missed 1 for their first try…so then?

  • Comment 100, posted at 23.09.15 08:42:48 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 87) : got to do something to occupy ourselves for the next four weeks. Tire the guys out so they can sleep on the long flight home.

  • Comment 101, posted at 23.09.15 09:08:46 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 101) : pain medication should sort that!!!!!!

  • Comment 102, posted at 23.09.15 09:11:46 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @grant10 (Comment 91) : I’d rather say nothing!!!!!!!!!

  • Comment 103, posted at 23.09.15 09:15:14 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 102) : So would arsenic. :evil:

  • Comment 104, posted at 23.09.15 09:20:12 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of RugbyTeam captain
     
  • @grant10 (Comment 94) : No Coenie, why – is it beacause he is a penalty machine or is it because he can outsprint the starting scrumhalf?

  • Comment 105, posted at 23.09.15 09:21:04 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 105) : I think he is booked on the sight seeing trip with Alberts this weekend, should be back next week.

  • Comment 106, posted at 23.09.15 09:25:17 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 105) : The saddest thing about it all is he is in the Sharks ranks from next year, When we don’t pay for his medication we will be paying for his penalties.

  • Comment 107, posted at 23.09.15 10:08:39 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 99) :

    I disagree. I think Lambie and Reinach is a good match, since Reinach is not a decision making scrummy, but when he has a 10 to guide him and he is in form, his service is clean.

    I have no more bias towards Reinach than I would to any other Sharks player, as a Sharks supporter I admit it is sometimes difficult to take off my Sharks bias and compare players from other unions fairly, but as far as Reinach and McLeod goes, I were one of McLeod’s biggest backers when Kockett was still around, but in McLeod’s latter seasons with the Sharks a felt he lost what made him most potent and that was simply getting the ball out of the ruck to his runners as quickly as possible. He tried to much and his error rate crept up. I can’t stand a scrummy who knocks the ball behind a ruck, makes inaccurate passes and loses the ball in contact by isolating himself… As far as Sharks player go, I just want the best one to run out for the Sharks (I don’t think the current crop of Sharks are the best in the country/Currie Cup, in any position, by a long shot).

    IMO Reinach’s error rate is quite reasonable for a player coming of a lengthy injury and have been improving week by week. I would love for you to name the specifics that he did in the last few weeks and why not this week against the Bulls, that gives you the impression that he is a “terrible” scrummy.

    So show me your “unbiasedness”, is all I’m asking. If you can asses his game, instead of just say how horrible he is each week, then maybe I would be willing to have a discussion regarding his form with you.

  • Comment 108, posted at 23.09.15 10:10:44 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 108) : I have told you on numerous occasions what his flaws are. It may be that your crisp service is not comparable to my crisp service standards, hence our differences on him.

    I am the first one to say he had a good game if he did. But those are far and in between. Do you not see how our backline has struggled since he became our starting scrumhalf? Someone like Cameron Wright did way more for the team as a whole than what Mr one man show has done.

  • Comment 109, posted at 23.09.15 10:23:49 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 109) :

    Yes, the backward slide of Sharks rugby squarely falls on the shoulders of one man. :roll:

    Your support of Ungerer even when he’s been atrocious tells me you won’t look at Reinach’s good attributes and will support any other to take his place.

    I agree that he can sometimes be to slow to get the ball out, but at least when he does that pass is clean and quick.

    Also, you call him one man show, but I don’t recall him doing much of anything that could justify that name in a while now. The only time he did, he actually put Mjekevu in for a try against the Pumas???

    Maybe I’m the one that should take a good look at his performance, but to me, when the flyhalf receives the ball from Reinach, he’s been on the front foot … maybe, right now, I’m just comparing Reinach to the absolute horror show of Ungerer before him, so my standards have dropped, but I’ve actually been pleased with his return.

    You’ve set a challenge for me now (or maybe I just did), but Reinach’s performance against the Bulls will be closely evaluated this weekend and then I’ll get back to you with maybe a more informed view.

  • Comment 110, posted at 23.09.15 10:35:53 by Letgo Reply
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  • Here’s Reinach’s attributes that I like:

    PASS (strong, clean and accurate)
    KICK (for a scrummy has a big boot on him, gets a lot of depth, not always accurate though).
    DEFENSE (a great defender, always makes his tackles, he is especially valuable on cover defense, where his speed helps him a lot).
    COUNTER ATTACK (he is a dangerous player when given some space and can make something out of nothing)

    Bad attributes:

    SLOW TO CLEAR (He tends to direct traffic, talk to the ref etc before getting to the pass … I have however always felt that this is something a coach could easily attend to and maybe even instructs players to play like this … he is also not always slow ans specifically during 2014, for the Boks, showed that he can play quick if that is what is required of him).

    ERRATIC (He tends to make really bad calls or really stupid errors at least once or twice in a match, especially if he’s not playing next to Lambie to temper and guide him a bit).

  • Comment 111, posted at 23.09.15 10:45:01 by Letgo Reply
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  • I feel for Mvovo as he did nothing wrong the few times he actually had the ball. Plus he gives more on attack than JP.

    Lambie to start is a must given how low Pollard’s confidence is.

    De Villiers will continue to slow our attack, but who knows, maybe du Preez can skip pass him.

    Glad at least Coenie and Pienaar got the much needed boot. A little too late, perhaps, but at least he did it.

  • Comment 112, posted at 23.09.15 10:50:06 by Blue Centurion Reply

    Blue CenturionCurrie Cup player
     
  • I’m working on the official team release,guys – we’ll have it up in a few.

  • Comment 113, posted at 23.09.15 11:19:15 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • Most teams at the World Cup have changed their teams significantly for the 2nd game… It’s obvious everyone is trying to give as many of their 31 a run as soon as possible…

    So why the big rant and “shock/horror” at the Springbok selections? It’s obvious this was going to happen… I would have done the same as coach.

    Geez people… I agree like the rest of you that HM is an idiot, but lets not slate every single decision he makes… Not EVERYTHING he does is completely wrong… It’s exhausting reading you all whinging all the time!

  • Comment 114, posted at 23.09.15 11:24:41 by CS Reply

    CSCurrie Cup player
     
  • I feel, based on the squad available, JDV at outside centre for this game was the right decision…

    Jesse Kriel is weak weak weak on defence… If he can’t even tackle a Japanese player how is he going to do against a Samoan… HM had no choice on this one IMO

    Now… Had Serfontein been there… Then a whole different ball game!

  • Comment 115, posted at 23.09.15 11:28:14 by CS Reply

    CSCurrie Cup player
     
  • When the guys get the crap tackled out of them by the Samoans they’re going to need some “old” heads to keep the guys call… I agree with bringing on the “lighter” more agile guys later after the Samoans are tired and less ferocious (ie Lambie, Kriel, Lood, etc)

  • Comment 116, posted at 23.09.15 11:34:58 by CS Reply

    CSCurrie Cup player
     
  • NOT Morné NOT Zane. Lambie at 10 and let him play his OWN game! If not Willie at 15, then Lwazi at 15 and Willie on the wing. Fourie Du Preez for Captain or Duane Vermeulen. Replacement flyhalf (if NECESSARY IIIIIIIF game is going well – don’t change it) Handre Pollard. Matfield, JDV and Schalk must play his own position OFF THE BENCH!

    I agree with Letgo(Comment 111) and Blue Centurian (Comment 112) and

  • Comment 117, posted at 23.09.15 13:50:57 by Den Reply

    DenCurrie Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 52) :

    Dope HM surpassed my nightmares

    13 Jean de Villiers (capt), 12 Damian de Allende, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Fourie du Preez

    On the upside Morne isnt at 10.

    As a show of hands who overdosed on flu Meds and predicted this Bok side

    Springboks: 15 Willie le Roux, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Jean de Villiers (capt), 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Fourie du Preez, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Schalk Burger, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Victor Matfield, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Adriaan Strauss, 1 Beast Mtawarira.
    Subs: 16 Schalk Brits, 17 Trevor Nyakane, 18 Frans Malherbe, 19 Lood de Jager, 20 Siya Kolisi, 21 Ruan Pienaar, 22 Pat Lambie, 23 Jesse Kriel

  • Comment 118, posted at 23.09.15 15:15:40 by Warren Harvey Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @Warren Harvey (Comment 118) :

    I didn’t foresee even HM leaving Lood out for Eben, I thought he would go with Matfield and Lood.

    And didn’t think Bis would be left out completely, but I got the rest pretty much spot on.

  • Comment 119, posted at 23.09.15 15:49:17 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 119) :

    I have a …. person…. in my life, who has disappointed me over and over, I have come to realize, you need to expect that they will continue doing so.

  • Comment 120, posted at 23.09.15 15:50:16 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 119) : I think HM has Eben and Matfield as his first choice combo so im not that shocked by Lood on the bench. The Bismarck exclusion is a surprise. If Strauss started and Bissie bench id be ok fair enough, but totally out is def a surprise.

  • Comment 121, posted at 23.09.15 15:52:00 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • Check this out – the three “most experienced” players… FdP SB and VM.

    https://www.facebook.com/161706480520891/photos/a.161713713853501.38753.161706480520891/1076708475687349/?type=3&theater

  • Comment 122, posted at 23.09.15 16:07:15 by VinChainSaw Reply
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