robdylan

Strong Boks for USA


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, RWC 2015, Springboks on 5 Oct 2015 at 18:14
Tagged with : , , ,

Heyneke Meyer has defied expectations by picking no fringe players for Wednesday’s match against the USA in World cup Pool B.

The only changes the coach has made to the starting fifteen are injury enforced; Jannie du Plessis and JP Pietersen are both nursing knee complaints after Saturday’s win against Scotland; they are replaced by Frans Malherbe and Lwazi Mvovo respectively.

Changes do come on the bench; Schalk Brits is in for Adriaan Strauss, Rudy Paige for Ruan Pienaar and Morne Steyn for Pat Lambie. Coenie Oosthuizen is also included as tighthead reserve, wearing the jersey freed up by Malherbe’s elevation.

South Africa: 15 Willie le Roux, 14 Lwazi Mvovo, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Damian De Allende, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Handré Pollard, 9 Fourie du Preez (captain), 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Schalk Burger, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Tendai Mtawarira.
Replacements: 16 Schalk Brits, 17 Trevor Nyakane, 18 Coenie Oosthuizen, 19 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 20 Willem Alberts, 21 Rudy Paige, 22 Morne Steyn, 23 Jan Serfontein.



293 Comments

  • Hmm…

  • Comment 1, posted at 05.10.15 18:18:37 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Morné Steyn…really?!?!

  • Comment 2, posted at 05.10.15 18:19:10 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 2) : I feel a swear word coming on!

  • Comment 3, posted at 05.10.15 18:19:31 by pastorshark Reply
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  • I wasn’t expecting this…especially with the four day turnaround…interesting move…

  • Comment 4, posted at 05.10.15 18:20:24 by pastorshark Reply
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  • And Lambie being the 3rd leg behind Steyn and Pollard? Why not Start with Lambie and Steyn on bench?

  • Comment 5, posted at 05.10.15 18:33:33 by duncanbetteridge Reply

    duncanbetteridgeUnder 21 player
     
  • @duncanbetteridge (Comment 5) : :shock:

  • Comment 6, posted at 05.10.15 18:44:11 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Just saying what does it do to Lambie confidence?so that HM can have a reason why we lost to wales/Aus

  • Comment 7, posted at 05.10.15 18:47:01 by duncanbetteridge Reply

    duncanbetteridgeUnder 21 player
     
  • Now he can blame the schedule when we lose. And players being ‘unfit’

  • Comment 8, posted at 05.10.15 18:51:23 by Dragnipur Reply
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  • HM still angry at Lambie for loosing against Japan

  • Comment 9, posted at 05.10.15 18:55:36 by duncanbetteridge Reply

    duncanbetteridgeUnder 21 player
     
  • “Like a Lamb(ie) to the slaughter”

  • Comment 10, posted at 05.10.15 19:09:35 by T-Shark Reply

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  • Whatever…

  • Comment 11, posted at 05.10.15 19:11:04 by Ben Reply
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  • Must admit when I see M steyn un that 12 I feel physically ill……why is Jantjes not there Heyneke?? Lambie must be damn thick skinned to handle all this abuse….

  • Comment 12, posted at 05.10.15 19:27:29 by grant10 Reply

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  • So Lambie won’t play 8 min from the bench… what’s the diffirence?

    Whatever is right

  • Comment 13, posted at 05.10.15 19:29:28 by Letgo Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 4) : They have 10 days rest after this match.

  • Comment 14, posted at 05.10.15 19:38:22 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • This selection is dof. Surely SA is good enough to beat USA without our top players…

  • Comment 15, posted at 05.10.15 19:39:57 by Orlok Tsubodai Reply

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  • @duncanbetteridge (Comment 5) : Because Pollard and FdP need as much game tame together as possible. Lambie is the backup going into the knockouts. HM already knows what Lambie brings, but he has no idea what form Morne is in, as he didn’t play due to paternity reasons.

  • Comment 16, posted at 05.10.15 19:40:25 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • I would have said the same about Japan two weeks ago. Perhaps SA is not as strong as we think… Just can’t see the All Blacks playing a full strength team against USA days after a previous game.

  • Comment 17, posted at 05.10.15 19:41:17 by Orlok Tsubodai Reply

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  • @Orlok Tsubodai (Comment 15) : Like against Japan? Can we afford the risk?

  • Comment 18, posted at 05.10.15 20:39:07 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • Anyone want to take a bet that when Schalk breaks down Spies gets a call up.I made a facioius comment a few days ago about Morne and Fourie being his plan A,how true that has turned out to be.

  • Comment 19, posted at 05.10.15 21:51:39 by The hound Reply
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  • Morne Steyn?????

  • Comment 20, posted at 05.10.15 22:27:59 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 19) : Yes, I will take that bet lol. Easy money. HM will not look Spies’ way in this WC.

  • Comment 21, posted at 05.10.15 22:45:38 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 19) : ja fuck and I alao said how glad I was that MS was no where to be seen!!!! Just had to call it!!!!!!

  • Comment 22, posted at 05.10.15 22:47:43 by JD Reply
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  • @Orlok Tsubodai (Comment 17) : losing to Japan forced HM to select a strong side against USA as he does not want to join England in front of the tv’s!!!! Long rest after the game for the players to get ready for the next game!

  • Comment 23, posted at 05.10.15 22:50:57 by JD Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 21) : never say never boet!!!!! He might be third on the call up list of loosies!!

  • Comment 24, posted at 05.10.15 22:52:34 by JD Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 14) : Well, let’s just hope we get through this game unscathed…

  • Comment 25, posted at 05.10.15 23:15:16 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 18) : @JD (Comment 23) : it’s just downright depressing that the once mighty Boks even dare to dream (nightmare) about losing to the likes of Japan and USA…. can you imagine NZ and Australia even being troubled by such a silly notion?…

  • Comment 26, posted at 06.10.15 00:00:51 by Orlok Tsubodai Reply

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  • So apparently Pollard had a barnstorming game against Scotland???

    Was that a joke or something?? He was solid. Tackled hard, ran hard and like every backline move – hardly passed. (ball never went passed the 13 in a single attacking move – not once) HM said he played a brilliant tactical game….Im sorry but he can f*** off after we get knocked out. That is utter bullshit, our kicking game was still average at best, even du Preez’s kicking wasn’t that flash.

    To suggest that “no one’s spot is certain” is also bullshit because no matter how many errors certain players make, they keep getting selected. LAMBO dominates play offs for fun – still gets dropped. LAMBO brings it home vs Wallabies and ABs – gets dropped. LAMBO played a dominant and ALL ROUND classy game vs Argies away from home and gets dropped next game when every single player on that field was absolute shit. Remember we were actually leading when LAMBO was on the field…(“oops I did forgetting that one!”) The wunderkind and co had 30 min to steer them home and couldn’t do it.

    Hougaard
    Morne Steyn
    Bjorn Basson
    Zane Kirchner
    Jannie du Plessis
    Johan Goosen
    Handre Pollard

    A list of twats that get given licence to find their form or eventually get booed out of their home stadiums. Surprising that most are Bulls players??

  • Comment 27, posted at 06.10.15 03:47:03 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • Also I am a Ruan Pienaar fanboy and always have been ever since his Sharks debut, BUT I would be foolish to deny he can certainly be slow at times and doesn’t act on the same natural instinct from his youth, so I am not just a blindly faithful Sharks fan. There are so many “experienced Sharks campaigners” that I will be more than happy to see leave.

  • Comment 28, posted at 06.10.15 03:49:52 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • @Orlok Tsubodai (Comment 26) : Well for the record Georgia also gave the AB’s a hell of a game. The rugby world is changing. Days of 80 plus scores against the minnows is a thing of the past. Also don’t negate the effect that a guy like Poite has on a match!

  • Comment 29, posted at 06.10.15 05:55:30 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @pienaar111 (Comment 28) : Bud, Pollard was hand picked by HM to be the FH going forward. As well as Lambie played, that is what it is. That said, Pollard does have the potential to become a great FH. Pundits like Mallet, Naas, and even the ex Sharks boks like Teich and Butch have all said that Pollard must be backed.
    Forget the emotion, the favourite tag for a minute and ask yourself, who between the two has the most potential to develop as FH for the boks?
    Lambie has played 5 years at this level. He is calm under pressure, and makes few mistakes. He also had to make mistakes and grow to where he is. Pollard went straight from Junior Boks, straight into the test team. He is far from polished yet, but he does offer so much to get excited about.
    I think people have built up this feeling that Lambie is everybody’s player to feel sorry for.
    And so they gloss over mistakes he made, and amplify Pollards. I felt the same way about Goosen. Hell the guy had an amazing test debut. Injuries, and he isn’t the same anymore. If he can replicate that, he will be a great FH. Pollard might still be better than that.

  • Comment 30, posted at 06.10.15 06:02:13 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 30) : Pollard I have no problem with. At least he can do more than just kick or shovel the ball sideways. His tactical kicking requires work however – that is for sure.

    But I do have the suspicion if Pollard is injured, HM will elevate Steyn to the starting lineup ahead of Lambie, and that is a huge mistake.

  • Comment 31, posted at 06.10.15 06:48:18 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 31) : I think the plan all along was to let Fourie settle in and then bring on Morne,for the rest of the tournament.
    This coach has the only say in who gets picked and the man has such a huge ego that he is convinced that the Lord is his personal assistant coach and he can do no wrong,
    He brought back Zane under the radar,sneaked in Morne and Britz and you can bet if Fourie had turned him down Houghaard would have been there.
    He sees Lambie like Koilisi only there because he was forced to have them,but that doesn’t mean he has to play them.
    I still say when one of Louw,Alberts ,Burger or Vermullen goes down through old age,Spies who is already there will appear on the field before Koilisi or Marcel.

  • Comment 32, posted at 06.10.15 07:28:41 by The hound Reply
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  • @pienaar111 (Comment 27) : you almost echoed all my frustrations. I am so frustrated with HM that watching the boks,isn’t that much fun anymore,even when we win. No idea what Lambie must still do to prove he is the top FH in the country and what pollard must do to show he just isn’t there yet. We are wasting one of the most talented players in the WC on the bench (or on wednesday,not even there). Time we get a new coach

  • Comment 33, posted at 06.10.15 07:29:47 by HeinF Reply

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  • Boks squad is still horribly unbalanced….simply have to get either Brussow, Marcell or Jaco Kriel into the mix…..really think Matfield should be on the way home now, and if Alberts cant even start against USA he is also just taking up space….Hooper and Pocock are going to hurt us without the addition of 1 of the loosies mentioned…

  • Comment 34, posted at 06.10.15 07:32:00 by grant10 Reply

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  • @grant10 (Comment 34) : Flouw has struggled to turnover any ball so far.

    Matfield can stay as a lineout consultant, but he should not be playing. Eben and Lood should start all the knockout matches.

  • Comment 35, posted at 06.10.15 07:48:06 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @grant10 (Comment 34) : *sigh* I suspect you are spot on! Pocock…the stuff of nightmares…

  • Comment 36, posted at 06.10.15 07:50:15 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @grant10 (Comment 34) : I reckon on the back of Pocock and Hooper the Aussies must very nearly be favourites to win this thing…

  • Comment 37, posted at 06.10.15 07:51:03 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 37) : And on that basis the France Ireland game should be a cracker! Neither of those sides want to lose and play the Aussies in the quarters…

  • Comment 38, posted at 06.10.15 07:52:04 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 35) : Agreed!

  • Comment 39, posted at 06.10.15 07:52:43 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Are we seriously surprised at seeing Paige and Morne Steyn in the team to play USA? This was the only game they could ever have played, so be realistic. Based on the Japan result and how well the smaller sides have played this World Cup HM did not want to be foolish and throw out a new side. Remember it very nearly backfired on Jake White in 2007 and if it had would we still be thinking that White is a god coach? Only selection that puzzles me is why Alberts over Kolisi? Its obviously too late to change now but the squad composition is def out…Alberts shouldnt have gone but another loose forward that plays to the ball should have. No need for Morne Steyn (3rd flyhalf) to go- could have taken another exciting outside back instead. Paige as 3rd scrummy a luxury but understand it as you dont want to be caught out cold on match day. Im actually looking forward to the Boks getting some momentum going hopefully. They have the longest rest before the QF.

  • Comment 40, posted at 06.10.15 07:56:40 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @pastorshark (Comment 38) : Loser of France/Ireland play the All Blacks but i get what u mean- should be a cracker game

  • Comment 41, posted at 06.10.15 07:58:47 by SheldonK Reply

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  • I also reckon he should have started Paige and play FdP of the bench if needed. The worst thing that can happen now is for du Preez to get injured. Preferably he should not even have been in the team.

  • Comment 42, posted at 06.10.15 08:06:55 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 41) : Ach ja…the second team from our group plays the Aussies…my mistake…

  • Comment 43, posted at 06.10.15 08:08:49 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 42) : De Allende should also have been rested with FDP….Schalk also has had a huge workload…

  • Comment 44, posted at 06.10.15 08:09:08 by grant10 Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 41) : Based on history, the French want to play the All Blacks in the quarters or semis… :grin:

  • Comment 45, posted at 06.10.15 08:09:32 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 42) : @grant10 (Comment 44) : These are my concerns…I’ll say it again: I hope we get through this game unscathed…

  • Comment 46, posted at 06.10.15 08:10:44 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 30) :

    It’s interesting, last thing you said to me was …. I agree, Lambie needs game time. So….????

    The frustration further lies in how many opportunities Pollard is getting, compared to how Lambie was treated 2012/2013/2014, when a clearly out of form Morne Steyn was continually selected over Lambie, only for Lambie to be leapfrog by Pollard.

    It’s fine, I’m glad for Pollard, but it is BS to see that certain players are given more time than others… same with Jesse. He still only had 2 good games. He has now played every singly game for the Boks this year. He has massive deficiencies on defense and lately seems out of place in attack, yet he is continually selected. Again, I’m not saying dont, give the youngster a chance. But where was this school of thought 4 years ago when Lambie was clearly the in form flyhalf?

    That’s my only frustration.

  • Comment 47, posted at 06.10.15 08:16:49 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 31) : I don’t think so. I am sure Lambie is the back up. Hope so too.

  • Comment 48, posted at 06.10.15 08:22:05 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @pastorshark (Comment 45) : I dont think the Argies will mind the French either…seems they in demand haha

  • Comment 49, posted at 06.10.15 08:26:16 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 32) : Who forced him to pick Lambie? HM did drop Morne when he was off form, so I don’t agree with you on that point.

  • Comment 50, posted at 06.10.15 08:26:35 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 42) : Fourie is playing to get Morne back in the mix.

  • Comment 51, posted at 06.10.15 08:26:48 by The hound Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 30) :

    Also, Lambie is not just calm under pressure and makes few mistakes.

    He is tactically astute, takes on the defensive line and creates space for his attack, reads the game well and makes good decisions, is an excellent game manager, an accurate kicker out of hand and at post, an excellent defender, positional and man on man, and he is elusive in the tackle. Just because he hasn’t been given the proper opportunity to showcase this for the Boks, doesn’t mean he is just save. How can anyone be anything more than, just save, if you are not given more than 2 games consecutively to start.

    No player will develop their skills and become confident in their position if they are only ever given 2 games every year to start.

    IMO the same think happened to Kankowski, who in 2007/2008/2009/2010 was by far our best 8th man. He was never given a start at the back of the scrum for the Boks and never given more than one start in a row. He could have been a great, now we’ll never know. After Spies got injured, he was never the same again. Ryan was clearly the superior player. Yet he had to sit behind Spies for all those years.

    I really wish we would get a selection panel. I truly believe we’ve missed out on some of our best players because coaches aren’t willing to drop their out of form favorites and select the in form players.

    Even Brent Russel could have been great for us if he was given more than 1 or 2 games at 10.

  • Comment 52, posted at 06.10.15 08:27:14 by Letgo Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 50) : The crowd at K.P in the test we lost to the Argies.

  • Comment 53, posted at 06.10.15 08:27:59 by The hound Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 47) : Thing is HM needs to give Pollard and FdP as much time together in the middle as well. There will aways be guys that are hard done by. Think Brüssow, Mapoe, Jaco Kriel. Then againI think Hm cast his net pretty wide. Lambie has been overlooked by more than just HM. Same scenario played out with PdV. Some Sharks coached=s didn’t help.
    Lambie is a fine player, but I get the impression he is seen more as a extremely versatile back up, than a preferred option.

  • Comment 54, posted at 06.10.15 08:31:33 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 48) : I def think Lambie is the no.2 and probably rightly so. Morne and Rudy just getting a run off the bench to give them a taste of the RWC when both are in fact surplus to requirements barring any last minute injury. In terms of Lambie…he has been in the Bok setup for a number of years now under 2 different coaches and is still not the preferred choice, same applies at the Sharks until very recently…so yes lets change coach as Meyer has made plenty mistakes but if the next coach also doesnt back Lambie then what? Change him too? Just food for thought

  • Comment 55, posted at 06.10.15 08:38:35 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 54) : I would like to see Lambie given a start with Fourie ,and a 12 who has learnt to pass,and without Burger in the no 10 channel.
    In the game against a mediocre Scotland,de Allende,Kriel and le Roux never passed the ball to a player in a better position once .Habbanna has never passed in his entire career,

  • Comment 56, posted at 06.10.15 08:39:11 by The hound Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 54) : “he is seen as … back up” that is just the problem. Pollard is not bad, but he is not the best. Meyer has been trying to play the guy into form this whole year! You don’t get to play yourself into form at the boks, not when there is another player who is clearly superior to you. So still now Pollard should play as much as possible to get some more time on the pitch… and then Lambie is given his 7 minutes once a week, where he still does more than Pollard, but we can’t start him, because pollard is the favourite and needs time to try and learn how to be a proper FH

  • Comment 57, posted at 06.10.15 08:41:46 by HeinF Reply

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  • @HeinF (Comment 57) : Very well put.

  • Comment 58, posted at 06.10.15 08:43:00 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 56) : that would be a backline with great potential…only if Burger stops playing 10!

  • Comment 59, posted at 06.10.15 08:44:22 by HeinF Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 49) : True… :mrgreen:

  • Comment 60, posted at 06.10.15 08:48:59 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Can everyone just get over this whole Lambie issue once and for all and just back the Boks 100%? The moaning about Lambie (the holy grail here on SW) not being in the team week in and week out is getting pretty stale now. HM said from the start all 3 flyhalves are going to get game time and considering what happened with Japan what options does he really have, HM is doing the right thing to keep the same team from the weekend and inject new players from the bench when needed with this 4 day turn around time, plus we have the luxury of 11 days before our next game in the quarters, meaning niggles from this game have plenty of time to heal.

  • Comment 61, posted at 06.10.15 08:52:31 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 61) : Honestly..no, but that’s just me

  • Comment 62, posted at 06.10.15 08:55:12 by HeinF Reply

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  • @HeinF (Comment 57) : @HeinF (Comment 57) : Harsh as it is on Lambie, the reality is that HM has made his call prior to the WC. No time to experiment anymore. He has opted for Pollard, and he needs to stand by that now. As SheldonK has posted. Lambie has been in the setup for 5 years now, and wether it is his own doing, or coaches’ preference, he hasn’t made any position, bar sub his own. And yes, some Sharks coaches did exactly the same to him.

  • Comment 63, posted at 06.10.15 08:59:12 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @pastorshark (Comment 60) : I reckon the A.B ‘s would actually welcome playing the French,they must have built up a huge reserve of payback over the years.Put it another way Shagger wouldn’t have to look far for motivational material for that game

  • Comment 64, posted at 06.10.15 08:59:44 by The hound Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 63) : No time to experiment anymore?????,then why is Morne who hasn’t played a game for the Boks in over a year on the bench.
    Or is it a foregone conclusion that we have already beaten the U.S.A.,this is the kind of arrogance that got us a hiding from the Japanese

  • Comment 65, posted at 06.10.15 09:05:22 by The hound Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 63) : I only have a problem with the last 4 years, that just happen to be when Meyer started. Lambie was phased in at the sharks, first 15, then 12 and finally 10, where he stayed. The only time he was moved, was after he got injured (he started the season as the nr 1 FH) and then Freddy played some awesome rugby while Lambie was out. The coach did the smart thing and played Lambie out of position to have both great players on the field at the same time. Probably did not do his career any favours, but come on, the Frenchman on form would walk into any international team on any day, and at the time he was playing some of the best rugby I have ever seen him play

  • Comment 66, posted at 06.10.15 09:05:34 by HeinF Reply

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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 61) : nah, i dont think its possible…its something we strongly believe in and unless proved wrong, i don’t think it will stop. i just dont think he has been given a fair crack.

  • Comment 67, posted at 06.10.15 09:10:18 by Jeremiser Reply
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  • …so Eddie Jones has only signed a 1 year contract with the streamers :shock: , which he will probably renege on as soon as England gives him THE call. :twisted:

    Maybe signing a world class coach is not all it’s made out to be.

    Let’s revert to “Robert du Preez for Sharks coach” ;-)

  • Comment 68, posted at 06.10.15 09:43:44 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 61) : Its never going to happen…as they say blind faith. Every coach will need to be replaced over and over until 1 finally backs Lambie as his no.1 or Lambie retires…not sure which will come first.

  • Comment 69, posted at 06.10.15 09:45:06 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 68) : Exactly what I thought when EJ said he would be happy to chat to the poms.
    We better of with a coach who wants to prove himself over a long term that a high profile coach who would be linked to every single coaching job in the world.

    @SheldonK (Comment 69) : Pretty much.

  • Comment 70, posted at 06.10.15 09:53:49 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 65) : Dude HM said from the start he is giving every flyhalf in the squad game time. I don’t know why you are moaning about it so much to be honest.

  • Comment 71, posted at 06.10.15 09:55:02 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • My 2 cents worth….. Reading through the comments,I see a lot of comments I agree with and then a couple that makes me wonder if Heyneke hacked some guys’ account?The whole Lambie debate is getting old,in my opinion he is the best FH in SA,he should start every game,he has been in form for 5 years already,why doesn’t he get backed the way that MS and Windgat are?Also believe Elton to be the 2nd best FH in SA!Why do you always read comments like ‘they need game time together now’ when selection of MS or Pollard gets questioned,but NEVER when Lambie gets selected?He has never been backed to find form like the other 10′s,and he is always on form!
    I would not have played full strength match,would have rested Schalk,Alberts need game time,Kolisi in for Flouw and I would have started with Paige….why is he even there with his superior tactical game and quick service if he will only get 5 min at the end….IF we are ahead!

  • Comment 72, posted at 06.10.15 09:57:03 by BarendL Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 61) : @SheldonK (Comment 69) : Sharks supporters complaining on a Sharks supporters site about Sharks players not selected for the Boks – maybe you boys should hang out at the Lions supporters site for a change of scenery ;-)

  • Comment 73, posted at 06.10.15 09:57:58 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 73) : On the Lions site they wont have ANY selections to complain about! :twisted:

  • Comment 74, posted at 06.10.15 10:01:06 by BarendL Reply
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  • I would have liked to see Serfontein start on de Allende’s outside and Kriel given some time at fullback in the second half. I’m still not convinced that Kriel is a defensive organiser but it seems Meyer has made up that particular bed for himself. Also think Nyakane could do with a start. Hoping that Paige gets more than 10 minutes too. We can’t go into the quarterfinals with a backup scrummie this green. It’s simply madness when so much of our game plan is reliant on a decision-making 9.

  • Comment 75, posted at 06.10.15 10:01:52 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @BarendL (Comment 72) : Sentimental selections – give them a taste of world cup before the real deal starts. :roll:

    HM’s biggest flaw is his loyalty toward his preferred players, and keeping his preferred players happy at all costs.

  • Comment 76, posted at 06.10.15 10:03:35 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 75) : Jislaaik but Kriel was poor on Saturday….yet he’ll be backed for another stint at 13.

    Same as Willie at fullback – I’d rather see Lambie there than sitting in the stands (or on the bench).

  • Comment 77, posted at 06.10.15 10:05:53 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 77) : of course Lambie has to be in the team, even if its a scrummy ahead of Reinach. ;)

  • Comment 78, posted at 06.10.15 10:10:35 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 73) : Funny how Sharks supporters dont feel the same about Jannie as they do Lambie ;) Mayb becos Jannie isnt a Shark anymore…and yes Lambie may have a signed contact (whatever thats worth these days) but i also knew he would look at offers from abroad. I think Lambie is a great player and should def be in the Bok side- at 15

  • Comment 79, posted at 06.10.15 10:11:05 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 76) : Fully agree…I really cant wait till they tear up this coaches’ contract..we have fallen far and hard under him,currently we are ranked 4th in the world,but 8 rating point adrift of NZ,when he got the job we where only about 5 behind NZ,we have constantly lost against teams like Wales and Ireland,lost games against Japan and Arg,struggled to beat Arg convincingly and only beat NZ once in four years…we are on a steady decline since he took the job and one consistent thing throughout his tenure is backing of his favorites now matter how kak they are!

  • Comment 80, posted at 06.10.15 10:15:30 by BarendL Reply
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  • My thoughts on the Lambie/Pollard issue. The other day Naas was on Kyknet in the morning and I was really suprised to hear that he shares a similar view point as me, that Lambie at 10 and Pollard at 12 will be one awesome combo. Just look how it good it worked for the All Blacks when the had Mehrtens at 10 and Carter at 12, and moved Carter to ten once he was experienced enough to take over the running of the backline.

  • Comment 81, posted at 06.10.15 10:15:49 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 79) : Everyone realies that Jannie needs rest,but like we have seen in the past,when he isn’t in the team for a tour due to injury,everyone acknowledges he is much more important that previously admitted.

  • Comment 82, posted at 06.10.15 10:18:34 by BarendL Reply
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  • I think it’s time for Sharksworld to make peace with the idea that other players are rated ahead of Lambie. Unfair or not, that’s just the way it is. Let’s keep in mind the form Super Rugby flyhalf is not even in the squad. And let’s also maintain some perspective – there are bigger challenges (loose trio balance, midfield defense, gameplan, loosies at first receiver) at play here which to a large degree invalidate which flyhalf is chosen at 10.

  • Comment 83, posted at 06.10.15 10:18:44 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 81) : Pollard was a blowout in the Semi last year against Brumbies…the ball will NEVER get to 13,in my opinion

  • Comment 84, posted at 06.10.15 10:19:48 by BarendL Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 83) : Agreed

  • Comment 85, posted at 06.10.15 10:20:49 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 81) : Ive long said that Lambie, Pollard,DeAllende would be my ideal combo. That combo offers so much variety

  • Comment 86, posted at 06.10.15 10:20:52 by SheldonK Reply

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  • Super rugby player!!!At last I get my star! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 87, posted at 06.10.15 10:21:08 by BarendL Reply
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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 81) : Look at Stransky and Hennie le Roux ,and where Cheka is playing Gitaue.
    But Meyer is too much of a dooos to see that,all he can see is size.
    The guy who should be next to Lambie is Howard Mninsi,he gets better every week.

  • Comment 88, posted at 06.10.15 10:21:15 by The hound Reply
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  • @BarendL (Comment 84) : Well the ball never gets to 13 now with De Allende in any case :twisted:

  • Comment 89, posted at 06.10.15 10:21:58 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @BarendL (Comment 82) : Well look how much better Jannie is looking now after a forced rest period. We also dont do the guy any favours putting pretty poor scrumming locks behind him. Yes he has discipline issues and doesnt make a thousand tackles, but he is pretty good on the pick and drive and should do that more.

  • Comment 90, posted at 06.10.15 10:22:37 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 88) : Agreed,Ackers is packing that guy full of skill,he has come on in leaps and bounds this year already!

  • Comment 91, posted at 06.10.15 10:23:32 by BarendL Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 88) : I love the idea of having 2 playmakers in the 10 and 12 shirts. It is also a massive plus if one is right footed and one left footed.

  • Comment 92, posted at 06.10.15 10:23:39 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 88) : I would hold off on the Mnisi for Bok call until after Super rugby next year. The guy was pretty average this years Super rugby. Yes he has been better this CC but defense seems to be an after thought this CC

  • Comment 93, posted at 06.10.15 10:24:27 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 64) : True…but if the French score one amazing try somewhere in a tight first half, that psychological fragility will come roaring to the fore… :mrgreen:

  • Comment 94, posted at 06.10.15 10:24:39 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 92) : Schalk is our preferred playmaker and he is neither left or right footed.

  • Comment 95, posted at 06.10.15 10:26:11 by The hound Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 68) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 96, posted at 06.10.15 10:26:46 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 90) : I have seldom been one to complain about Jannie,except when it comes to the discipline issues,to me he is solid at scrum time,his defence is streets better than it was last year,I wont ever play him from the bench,as he is not the sort of player to make an impact from the bench,Malherbe on the other hand is a great impact player,one that I would groom to replace Jannie

  • Comment 97, posted at 06.10.15 10:28:11 by BarendL Reply
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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 81) : @The hound (Comment 88) : @KingRiaan (Comment 92) : I’m a fan of the idea but then we need to stop basing all our play off 9 and chase the loosies away from first receiver, otherwise what’s the point?

  • Comment 98, posted at 06.10.15 10:28:23 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 69) : To be fair…I haven’t seen anyone say fire HM just because of the Lambie thing. The list of complaints against HM is a long one for most on here and that is the basis of “fire the coach”…or am I reading it wrong?

  • Comment 99, posted at 06.10.15 10:29:15 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 89) : fair point,but imagine Pollard at 12,he would crash ball all day! :twisted:

  • Comment 100, posted at 06.10.15 10:30:09 by BarendL Reply
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  • @BarendL (Comment 97) : I think Malherbe is a good player and offers a lot…i just want to see what he is like when the pressure is on and things not entirely going his way. How strong is he mentally to fight back or fold? i fear that a few young guys in SA would now fall into option 2

  • Comment 101, posted at 06.10.15 10:31:21 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 73) : Lol…

  • Comment 102, posted at 06.10.15 10:31:27 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @BarendL (Comment 74) : No…they will have them all to complain about…

  • Comment 103, posted at 06.10.15 10:32:20 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 95) : Ugh don’t even get me started on that issue.

  • Comment 104, posted at 06.10.15 10:34:25 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @pastorshark (Comment 94) : The antipodean mentality is a funny one ,both nations hate being favourites and excel in an underdog situation.
    The AB’s would welcome a game against France where the British press would make the French the favourites.The burden of expectation that they merely have to arrive to get a 50 point win is a severe one.
    Same with the Aussies they hate being favourites and Saturdays game suited them perfectly,the Pom arrogance played right into their hands.This week when they go in expected to smash the Irish will be a different story,wouldn’t be surprised to see an Irish win.

  • Comment 105, posted at 06.10.15 10:35:12 by The hound Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 99) : Not im not saying the Lambie thing is the only reason Meyer’s head is wanted. Goodness he has had made many errors but i just think that the lambie one as for as everyone on Sharksworld is concerned is top of that list. I jsut wonder if the next coach in also doesnt back Lambie but does get a lot right will his head also be called for because of it. I think if we had the choice of all players majority of us would chose different lineups and thats possibly something we need to remember going forward…the next coach in no matter who is he or what he has done will have his preference for certain players that may or may not be the public favourite.

  • Comment 106, posted at 06.10.15 10:36:44 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 79) : Hmmm…that is a bit unfair…long before Jannie left most okes on here were saying he shouldn’t be the Bok starter. I didn’t agree, but in the sites defence, most guys made this call before Jannie left. I think the chorus re: Lambie has more to do with the guys really being convinced he should play a bigger role. You don’t see them being like this about Reinach, Mvovo, etc. So it is not Sharks bias alone at play…

  • Comment 107, posted at 06.10.15 10:36:55 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @BarendL (Comment 100) : That is because of the South African way of coaching. For some reason most of our coaches thinks it is the job of the 12 to bulldoze over opponents. You don’t see the Aussies or Kiwis do that. They will rather have a loosie run of 10 and do the crashball and have the 12 ready to create the gap for the 13.

  • Comment 108, posted at 06.10.15 10:38:31 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @BarendL (Comment 100) : Isnt that what DeAllende did all game Sat though? Would you prefer Pollard 10 and Lambie 12?

  • Comment 109, posted at 06.10.15 10:38:40 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 106) : Sure…but then say that…comment 69 is all about Lambie being the only reason coaches are criticised…that’s just not accurate…

  • Comment 110, posted at 06.10.15 10:40:32 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 83) : That is a fair comment…

  • Comment 111, posted at 06.10.15 10:41:31 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 107) : So at one stage its Sharks fans wanting Sharks players in…then its just Sharks fans wanting 1 guy in? I think Lambie is a good player, very glad he is at the Sharks. As an opposition defense coach is it easier to organise a defense vs Lambie or Pollard…easier vs Lambie to be honest as yes Pollard may make the odd error but he allows very little room for error on the opposition defense part due to his hard running and pass. Do i think lambie should be in the Bok side- hell yes. Do i think he would offer more value at either 15 or maybe 12…yes

  • Comment 112, posted at 06.10.15 10:43:12 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 101) : Yes,but HM isn’t in my opinion the guy to even test that,he is a knee jerk type of person,if one of his non preferred players has a bad game,they are normally dropped altogether and that in itself doesn’t build confidence,I truly think we now have a lot of young TH coming through,will like to see guys like Koch,Rhedelinghuys and Dreyer being given opportunity with Malherbe after Jannie has called it quits.
    @pastorshark (Comment 103) : True story!haha

  • Comment 113, posted at 06.10.15 10:43:47 by BarendL Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 110) : It was an exaggeration but it is chief reason number 1

  • Comment 114, posted at 06.10.15 10:43:54 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @BarendL (Comment 113) : Koch hasnt impressed me at all lately…he is a running around prop but scrums and lifting in lineouts is not the best. Redelinghuis has been very good and def needs to be rewarded along with Malherbe.

  • Comment 115, posted at 06.10.15 10:47:04 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 109) : I prefer someone that can do both jobs,can take the ball up and who has a very good passing game,who creates space for the 13…my honest selection will be Frans,the way he played last year with Sithole,offloading,breaking through tackles,creating space,he very seldom died with the ball when taking contact,that type of player would be my preferred 12

  • Comment 116, posted at 06.10.15 10:48:48 by BarendL Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 114) : And a generalisation ;-)

    I’m not upset with Meyer picking Pollard or even Steyn for that matter. My reasons for disliking him are more recent and have little to do with individual player selections.

  • Comment 117, posted at 06.10.15 10:50:11 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 115) : Sure Koch might be a bit off form now,but if you where made to feel like the scapegoat after Argies beat SA,I dont think I’ll be too full of confidence in my own game anymore,and that I blame on our coach.His handling of players being dropped is piss poor

  • Comment 118, posted at 06.10.15 10:51:10 by BarendL Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 114) : @vanmartin (Comment 117) : I think most of us jump on the Lambie thing because hm has for 4 years said that he will always select the form players,but he has basically ignored form for the last 4 years,if that was his only selection criteria we would have players like Jaco Kriel,Whiteley,Rhedelinghuys,Elton,Mnisi,Mapoe,Marcel,Kitshoff,Faf de Klerk at our disposal

  • Comment 119, posted at 06.10.15 10:54:44 by BarendL Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 117) : I think u may be the odd exception. For most Lambie is the biggest issue and problem no.1 . Im judging it based on the number of comments after any Bok team selection refferring to Lambie and Meyer. All im wondering is if the next coach picks say Janjies at 10 and lambie still operates as bench utility then what?

  • Comment 120, posted at 06.10.15 11:00:37 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 117) : I have many reasons why I dislike the man,but recently I find it turns my stomach when he credits the Lord with every win.
    Why by all that is holy would the Lord be interested in rugby,and why would he prefer the Boks to the Samoans who seen to be a particularly devote bunch of christians.
    Imagine if we had a Muslim coach who praised Allah for every victory in the same way they praise him for the destruction of the twin towers.
    I think in a multi cultural society like ours a coach who is supposed to represent the entire nation should keep his religious beliefs to himself.

  • Comment 121, posted at 06.10.15 11:00:45 by The hound Reply
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  • @BarendL (Comment 116) : Steyn isnt the youngest chap around anymore but yes i do like that thinking. @BarendL (Comment 118) : Sorry i dont buy into that excuse. Kock got his ass handed to him vs Argies. If he wants to feel sorry for himself thats his problem. He also struggled vs a non name Free State prop on the weekend and was lucky in the couple penalites he favourably got. @BarendL (Comment 119) : I think if all coaches went on form most of the teams at the RWC would look different.

  • Comment 122, posted at 06.10.15 11:03:45 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 120) : If Elton is the form player and Lambie isn’t then I reckon most of us would acknowledge that,just like know one is moaning too much about Reinach,because we realise that his form this year has been crap.

  • Comment 123, posted at 06.10.15 11:05:22 by BarendL Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 122) : The difference is that most coaches dont rant on about form being their nr 1 selection criteria.NZ dropped experienced players with little form for players who was showing some great form…Dagg to name one.
    Dont think he is feeling sorry for himself,just think he is low on confidence,but I guess its how you return after that…think Kyle Cooper?
    Frans is only 28 still,so reckon he still has a lot to offer.

  • Comment 124, posted at 06.10.15 11:09:51 by BarendL Reply
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  • @BarendL (Comment 123) : I guess we shall have to wait i see…i think i know the outcome but will give the benefit of the doubt that majority are open to someone other than Lambie at 10.

  • Comment 125, posted at 06.10.15 11:11:46 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @BarendL (Comment 124) : I just think some players dont perform and then look for excuses and give that crap line about the coach not treating them fairly. Kyle Cooper knew exactly where he was in the pecking order..he got injured and then hasnt produced anything decent so he must sit and watch. Frans wont be returning to SA to play so cant see him playing for the Boks again…although as u say he can still add value

  • Comment 126, posted at 06.10.15 11:14:22 by SheldonK Reply

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  • I’m not sure what the problem is? He’s taking advantage of the 10 day rest after this game to make sure that the momentum is kept up. Yes, we should beat US but its not just Japan, think 2007 when Tonga were a lucky bounce away from turning the Boks over – second teams tend to lack cohesion and can play below the sum of its parts. The bench looks mainly like third choice players – again, no issue, give the squad some gametime in case you need them? I’d have maybe put de Jager in cotton wool and played du Toit – and perhaps Alberts to give him some game time – but I don’t have a massive problem with the other selections…

  • Comment 127, posted at 06.10.15 11:15:06 by JR Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 126) : Just to be clear,the way Koch is playing now and what happened,is my own assessment of what might be going through his mind,I haven’t read or heard him saying as much,I was just thinking what it might feel like given certain circumstances.
    To be honest I don’t think Frans will play Bok rugby again,but that in itself is a shame as I think he has at least another 30-40 Tests in him…but I guess only time will reveal that story

  • Comment 128, posted at 06.10.15 11:19:17 by BarendL Reply
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  • @BarendL (Comment 128) : I hav no doubt Koch is playing with a bit of doubt after getting a hiding like that on such a big stage. It has to effect you and will take time to get full confidence back. I just think Koch struggles against a heavier prop, Koch is a strong guy but isnt the quickest on the hit so a heavier guy gets the upperhand on him initially. I was also watching the Pumas lineout and often Koch is late in getting to the jumper to assist with the lift. Im sure other guys have issues too, its just something i picked up watching some of the Pumas game this weekend. And yeh its a big pity Frans steyn was not better utilised by the Boks over the years

  • Comment 129, posted at 06.10.15 11:28:36 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 55) :

    Since when was Lambie not first choice at the Sharks? Have you been watching. He’s been first choice since 2010, when he won the Currie Cup for us.

  • Comment 130, posted at 06.10.15 11:40:53 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 130) : The last time there was a decent flyhalf in Durban other than him he wasnt 1st choice. He hasnt been 1st choice the last 2 years as he has been out injured. The point i was making is that the next Bok coach is not guaranteed to pick Lambie which wont go down well with people here

  • Comment 131, posted at 06.10.15 11:47:25 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 63) : Not true at all. Lambie has hardly ever been benched for the Sharks, since making his first start in Super Rugby at 18 years of age.

    Yes, he has been played at fullback (not as much as you have convinced yourself he has), but that was only because the Sharks at that time didn’t have that many options at 15, not because Lambie was not good enough to play 10. He has also always been at his most influencial for the Sharks in the 10 channel and if you’ve been watching Sharks rugby closely for the last 5 years, you would have known this.

    Anyway, my gripe is not with Lambie not being started in this game. It is with players and which included Lambie, not getting fair chances. This would even include Damian, who imo could have been a playing for us in the 12 channel since end 2013 start 2014.

    Jan was excellent at u/21 RWC, but nothing he did there ever materialized at senior level. We have better centers in SA. Robert Ebersohn left when Jan was selected over him. We have Lionel and now even Harold Voster, who though I feel is a massive talent, will not be afforded the same opportunities as the kids HM coached when he was at the Bulls. Jesse, Jan, Pollard.

    It’s not right. We need a selectors panel.

  • Comment 132, posted at 06.10.15 11:48:29 by Letgo Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 131) :

    Yes, he was first choice. You are mistaken.

  • Comment 133, posted at 06.10.15 11:49:19 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 61) :

    Who said we’re not backing the Boks.

  • Comment 134, posted at 06.10.15 11:52:08 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 133) : So when Frans Steyn played 10 last years Super rugby and Lionel Cronje/ Zelinga in this years Super? U cant be 1st choice when u injured. When Michalak was here Lambie benched. PDivvy benched Lambie and played him 15. If Willie LeRoux hadnt come through Lambie would be 15 for the Boks this World Cup. Lambie is a good player but others are just preferred. Every coach no matter who he is or what he has done will always leave out players that the fans think are the best and should be there. If Lambie was a constant at 15 for the Sharks he would be starting this World Cup…he wanted to play 10 so must deal with consequences.

  • Comment 135, posted at 06.10.15 11:57:54 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 135) : You cant be a choice at all if you are injured,when fit he has always been 1st choice axcept when Fred was playing brilliantly

  • Comment 136, posted at 06.10.15 12:11:27 by BarendL Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 69) :

    No my friend, it’s the one contention I have this week, but Kriel should probably also not be there. Lionel Mapoe would most probably have been worth more to us at the World Cup had HM given him the same opportunity as Jesse.

  • Comment 137, posted at 06.10.15 12:14:40 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 137) :

    And I know Jesse was exciting in those first three games and everyone jumped on the bandwagon, but lets face it. Lionel was the in form SA 13, he is more experience and knows the very technical position of outside center very well.

  • Comment 138, posted at 06.10.15 12:15:18 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 137) :

    Jesse has been nowhere since the Arg Drubs game. And his defense has been a problem right from the start, yet HM continues to back him.

    What about Jan Serfontein. Had Meyer not had his – “I spotted this kid back when I coached at the Bulls” blinkers on we may have seen a very in form 22 year old Robert Ebersohn in the 12 jersey in 2012/2013 and after that Damian in 2013/2014. But these guys only get chances when HM’s favorites get injured.

  • Comment 139, posted at 06.10.15 12:15:54 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 139) :

    Non of Jantjies, Goosen or Lambie was given proper opportunity during the 2012/2013/ start of 2014 season when Morne was horribly out of form, with boot and everywhere else… yet a 21 year old that HM coached before is flown back straight from the junior RWC to step into that 10 jersey and has started every game accept 4 in the last 2 years.

    Would you like me to continue.

  • Comment 140, posted at 06.10.15 12:16:17 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 140) :

    Lood is playing today, but could have seen so much more game time. PSDT was given 15 on the 2013 EOYT because HM brought Bakkies back from international retirement. We haven’t even seen a guy like Franco Moster given an opportunity at the Boks and he has two massive seasons at the Lions behind him.

  • Comment 141, posted at 06.10.15 12:16:39 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 141) :

    Remember that Duane Vermeulen continued to play behind Pierre Spies until Spies got injured. And even after Duane had massive games at the Boks “filling in for Spies” HM would bring back Spies every time. Remember that little frustration? Spies was injured for 1 year and 6 months and that’s probably the only reason Duane ended up being HM’s first choice, while he was clearly superior.

  • Comment 142, posted at 06.10.15 12:18:06 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 142) :

    What else?

    Bryan Habana was also horribly out form form for a long period during HM’s coaching tenure. I’m not saying never select him again, but if his performing badly every game, drop him for the guy in form.

  • Comment 143, posted at 06.10.15 12:23:18 by Letgo Reply
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  • Schalk Burger has been very hot and cold since HM brought him back (and for sentimental reasons this remains one of HM’s popular calls), but why not play Whiteley, why not play Kriel?

    I am fed up with these bias selections. Yes, players should be backed by coaches, but not unconditionally. It isn’t good for the Sprinboks.

    I mean the last two injuries that we were “blessed with” (and it’s a shame because this is not how players should go out), is Jean and Victor. Two Springbok legends, who when they were injured during the world cup people had to pretend to put a sad face on, while their heads they were dancing with excitement. Finally we can see Damian, finally we can see Lood.

  • Comment 144, posted at 06.10.15 12:23:36 by Letgo Reply
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  • Lambie is not my only issue and in fact, I like Pollard and think he is a talented kid with lots of potential, but I tend to start to dislike players if they are the “teachers pet”.

    I loved Pierre Spies, I always thought he was a decent guy and my sister and I called him Superman, because he kinda has that look and when he started out no one could stop him, but them when he “lost his powers” and coaches continued to select him I started to despise him. I know it’s not their fault, but that’s just the way it works….

    and done.

  • Comment 145, posted at 06.10.15 12:24:07 by Letgo Reply
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  • @BarendL (Comment 119) : WAAAAAAYYYY to many Lions . you will make the coach nervous

  • Comment 146, posted at 06.10.15 12:24:17 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 30) : Pollard has the potential to be better in the same way Quade Cooper has the potential to be the better than Bernard Foley…the all round athlete that one dreams of basically.

    But who would you select?? The bloke who has BMT and form right now (given this is world cup year) or the bloke who could ‘potentially’ make it big time??

    I agree Pollard has exceptional potential. But go and watch that Junior world cup final and tell me what you think of his decision making at this stage in his career??

    If you could pick one flyhalf right now to win you the world cup final against the ABs (if that were possible) who would you pick??

    @Letgo (Comment 52) : Amen with both comments. Kanko was misused the same way. (and goes the same for many more)

  • Comment 147, posted at 06.10.15 12:25:13 by pienaar111 Reply

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  • @Letgo (Comment 137) : :mrgreen: ja swaer …

  • Comment 148, posted at 06.10.15 12:32:12 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 135) :

    Yes, you definitely can be first choice when you are injured. If you’re the guy everyone is just waiting to return from injury and steps right back in to the starting 15. You are first choice. Frans/Lionel/Fred were always just his backups.

    Lambie was not benched when Michelack was here. Lambie started, Michelack was on the bench and even played 9 a couple of times, until Lambie was injured. Lambie only came back for the Final and was immediately included in the starting 15, although not at 10, which imo was a mistake anyway (Michelack had one of his off games, something Lambie doesn’t do).

    Why don’t you go and check how many times Lambie played of the bench for this Sharks since he made his debut as 18 year old. How many he played at 10 and how many he played at 15. At least then you’ll be making an argument with fact.

    Coaches shouldn’t have favorites. This is not good for a team. My contention is not even so much with Pollard, as I do feel he is a good player. My contention is with out form form players, in the last 4 years, that have been selected in favor of in form players, just because they are a coaches favorite.

    I don’t see Micheal Cheika doing this. He is the Waratahs coach, yet he has included less Waratahs than Robbie Deans did when he was coach and look how much better Australia is performing now.

    You have to do what is best for the team and that is not always selecting the player you like most.

  • Comment 149, posted at 06.10.15 12:32:33 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 142) : Mapoe probably would have got a chance but he was injured so Kriel played and played well so he ahs stuck with him- i have no problem with that. U say you want players given a chance but then next sentence you say not Kriel. So its only certain players that should get a chance. Janjies, Goosen should get a chance but not Pollard. In the same instance now Vermuelen shouldnt be playing as now Whitely should get a chance. Etzebth shouldnt be playing because Mostert now needs a chance. DuPreez shouldnt be playing now as Paige needs a chance. U cant cast a blanket over the team and say players must get a chance as there will always be others players but then no continuity is created. Im hoping the next Bok coach who ever it is comes with a few new ideas and is not so rigid in terms of where to play players. But will he back a certain group of players to deliver for him leaving out others, he most definitely will.

  • Comment 150, posted at 06.10.15 12:34:17 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 83) : This I can agree to. My views on favouritism are not limited to Lambie at 10.

    And yes the biggest problem is still tactics and variation – ie. we have none

  • Comment 151, posted at 06.10.15 12:34:45 by pienaar111 Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 146) : hahaha,but they are in my opinion way better than guys that did get [email protected]pienaar111 (Comment 147) : Thank you for mentioning that…to me Pollard is a glory boy with some talent,he wants his name to be on the scoresheet,he tried a drop goal to be the hero instead of just going through the fases and getting closer to the tryline and making it a easier shot at goal or even scoring!
    Hougaard is another one,played kak at SH,in form scrummies didn’t get opportunity,got shifted to Wing and then shifted out and when he actually has form,does not get selected.
    JJ selected as outside center,plays crap and still hasn’t regained form,but while in the team and playing crap he got backed for a lot of Tests even though he was playing badly. Gurthro was crap while being selected to start matches and so was Greyling,Zane,Morne and quite a bunch more

  • Comment 152, posted at 06.10.15 12:39:06 by BarendL Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 150) : Kriel go a chance at 13 when his form,although fading towards the end of Super95, was at 15,thus not giving a guy who did play well at 13 the opportunity to establish himself,its because HM is biased towards his own kind with the Blue connections

  • Comment 153, posted at 06.10.15 12:48:02 by BarendL Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 106) :

    Lambie gets more airtime – firstly, because it’s a discussion about the flyhalf position, I think long after he’s left this discussion will always remain a focal point in rugby. It’s a very important position.

    And secondly, because every time anyone makes any type of remark to display their unhappiness about not seeing Lambie given a start, there is a huge reaction from those who do not necessarily agree.

    I’ve made remarks about other players needed opportunity. People usually just don’t react with, oh please, get over it. Usually rather the reaction to saying for example I think Damian should start ahead of Jean is – “Yeah, he should be at 12″ or “That’s your opinion, I think we need Jean”. And I’ll say, “okay, but I don’t agree with you Damian is the go forward we need”.

    And then we move on.

    But God forbid we have an opinion on Lambie? Why does it always get such a big reaction?

    I wasn’t even going to make a comment because I knew their would be a handful that I do not agree with his non-selection, but even more so, the fact that I even had the gall to mention it in a rugby sharks supporters comment site.

    Had you just said – Yeah, he’s unlucky or Morne was always going to get a run. This threat would have been that much shorter.

    But there’s always this question about why we dare to mention Lambie’s name.

  • Comment 154, posted at 06.10.15 12:48:42 by Letgo Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 112) :

    Pollard is predictable. I would much rather defend against him.

  • Comment 155, posted at 06.10.15 12:51:03 by Letgo Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 120) :

    I said Elton should start the RC. Lambie came back from a long injury and Pollard showed no form during SR last 10 weeks. I wanted to see Elton given a decent run and taken as the 3rd 10. You focus to much on the one thing we are unhappy with.

    This week there just isn’t much else to complain about. Although, Jesse is a concern for me.

    Either Jan at 13, or shift the whole backline and play Pollard and Lambie in tandem.

  • Comment 156, posted at 06.10.15 12:56:21 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 155) : Thats your opinion. Just dont think many international teams would agree. @Letgo (Comment 154) : And every Bok selection article i comment about other players but the discussion always goes back to Meyer and Lambie instead of the other much bigger issues at play. Trust me its not our flyhalf that will cost us in this world cup. People even saying Pollard is a glory boy for kicking that drop goal last weekend- if thats what they think im sorry they lose all credibility with me. I wouldnt mind Lambie or Pollard at 10 but think Pollard threatens the opposition defense more and Lambie would offer better value joining the line at 15. But i do not agree that every player that has a semi decent game or two should get a Bok cap

  • Comment 157, posted at 06.10.15 12:57:40 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 157) : ” But i do not agree that every player that has a semi decent game or two should get a Bok cap”

    so why is Pollard , Kriel and Paige there ?

  • Comment 158, posted at 06.10.15 13:01:27 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 157) : I’m talking about the attempted drop goal in the Junior World Cup against England

  • Comment 159, posted at 06.10.15 13:06:38 by BarendL Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 156) : I have no problem with Kriel…let him get more game time at 13-his defense will improve although he was good last week and hopefully he gets more ball to attack with but opposition have watched the tapes and now close him down very quickly. I have no problem with Pollard and Dupreez getting some more game time together to improve as a combo. Paige and Steyn will get time in 2nd half unless game is close. My earlier post (if actually read) said i would have preferred to see Kolisi over Alberts. I also said i think a 3rd flyhalf is a luxury not needed, especially when a guy like Pienaar can cover 10. I have also said that i like play makers at 10 and 12 which is why i like the Lambie/Pollard combo and why im not a fan of Esterhuizen at 12 for the Sharks.

  • Comment 160, posted at 06.10.15 13:07:21 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 158) : Pollard- massive potential, only flyhalf in SA for ages to resemble Honiball. Kriel- givena chance when injuries stuck- took his chance. Paige- darker shade of white

  • Comment 161, posted at 06.10.15 13:10:09 by SheldonK Reply

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  • These people seem to forget that this site is called SHARKSworld. Not bloody hell BULLSworld or LIONSworld. Here we can back Lambie as he is ours, don’t like it? Then move the hell on. So damn tired of this.

  • Comment 162, posted at 06.10.15 13:11:47 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @BarendL (Comment 159) : ok if u say so. but even that- judgement call…if it worked everyone would have cheered the choice. If he kept the ball through phases and we knocked on like we had all night that game then he has poor game management for not trying a drop goal. Very easy to pick 1 incident and argue it both ways. Robshaw kicks for the corner-messes up lineout and he is an idiot. But if he scores and they win then great decision to back the powerful england pack. Spot is judgement calls made in an instant

  • Comment 163, posted at 06.10.15 13:12:44 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 163) : But it didn’t work out,we lost..and the reward….fly back to SA and come get a Test cap?I get that some people will have a Pollard boner,to me he is not the new saviour of Bok rugby,the closest resemblance to Honiball he has is that both have feet and play rugby

  • Comment 164, posted at 06.10.15 13:14:58 by BarendL Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 150) :

    No, no to every question you asked. And no to every statement you made regarding my comment. You interpreted it completely wrong.

    HM should have give Mapoe a run (a full match, since he knew Jesse’s deficiencies at 13). Not dropped Kriel altogether, but definitely given Mapoe 2 or so games once he was healthy. This was directly after the Warm-up game btw. so he had plenty time.

    No, Jantjies and Goosen should have been given the same chances Pollard got in 2012/2014 (this is when Pollard wasn’t around, so it really has nothing to do with him). It illustrates that HM is willing to back a 20 year old who has never played Super Rugby before, while he never was willing to back Jantjies/Lambie (Goosen to a lesser extent, injuries).

    No – Duane was injured. Duane was not part of the of the equation. Whiteley could have started every single RC game (instead of 30 min against World 15). If not Whiteley then Kriel. Duane was injured, so there was room to give one of these “form” players a few games run (as Pollard was given).

    No – I never mentioned Etzebeth, you are pulling this out of your ass. Victor should not have been played (HM favorite) and Moster been given a run. Or Lood or PSDT, over the last 2 years.

    No – I never mentioned Du Preeze or Paige.

    No – I never said drop players left and right, but as HM did with Pollard successfully, by backing a youngster (when Morne screwed up), he should have done with other young in form players.

    No – I am not saying drop players if they have 1 bad game, but if there is someone else, who has clearly been superior in the provincial season, at least give this guy a decent run, and the guy that is out of form, incentive to get himself back into form.

    You are a very contentious.

    The point I was trying to make was that we are not just talking about Lambie – I believe I had proven my point. Whether you agree with the other issues I have with HM, is actually another matter entirely.

  • Comment 165, posted at 06.10.15 13:15:22 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 158) :

    Boom! :twisted:

  • Comment 166, posted at 06.10.15 13:16:49 by Letgo Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 163) :

    The better players usually ens up making the decisions that gets the win.

    You select the guy that’s goin to get it right more often than not. I don’t think Pollard is that guy for us.

  • Comment 167, posted at 06.10.15 13:19:37 by Letgo Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 160) :

    Yeah, I also have no problem with players being given opportunities. It would have been great if Lambie/Jantjies/Ebersohn/Lwazi/Kriel/Mapoe/Brussouw/Marcell/Damian/… were afforded the same opportunities when they clearly were the better players over the out of form players in their positions.

  • Comment 168, posted at 06.10.15 13:22:48 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 167) : The Boks have beaten the All Blacks once in 4yrs with who at flyhalf?

  • Comment 169, posted at 06.10.15 13:44:13 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Letgo (Comment 168) : I have no problem with players being given an opportunity if a guy gets injured. But then if the guy does well then what? drop him or let him have a few games to cement his spot as no.1? and how many is a few games? And if he has a bad game then must he be dropped and back of the queue so the next guy can have a chance? But then what if the guy that was injured comes back? We all think selection is so easy on this blog but all we are doing is playing fantasy league. So dont get upset when i say that. And those that say they are just supporting the Sharks guys cause this is a Sharks site- i dont see much love for the sharks on their articles. So yes u have an opinion but there are also other opinions out there. I think im pretty fair on players but to hear bout guys getting selected to spite others and cause they Bulls is just rubbish. If thats what this site is about id rather read the garbage on rugby365

  • Comment 170, posted at 06.10.15 13:51:26 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 170) : I totally agree, these meaningless arguments about this and that player should play and has the most potential is a load a bollocks.

  • Comment 171, posted at 06.10.15 14:07:21 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 171) : Yes we can mention guys that could possibly hav been picked and where based on guys there. But continually bringing up guys not there is such a waste. Id rather talk about how the Boks can win and in what areas they are good at and where they can improve. For instance ive heard very few comments saying the Boks played well last weekend- which they did. Barring the intercept Scotland struggled to get close to scoring

  • Comment 172, posted at 06.10.15 14:09:58 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 172) : Yes and lets be fair, Pollard had a darn good game as well, and looks way more comfortable with Fourie as his link to the forwards. Yes that try he messed up with, but he is a darn good flyhalf. SA is very lucky that we have such great tallent in the no 10 position right now. We have for so long been without good flyhalf stocks in this country, Honiball was great but played a totally different type of ball game compared to any other flyhalf we know. My biggest worry is that we dont have decent backup to du preez after the world cup. Maybe paige will step up, he did well with pollard in the S15.

  • Comment 173, posted at 06.10.15 14:17:18 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 172) : we have to praise the boks for beating the team that is ranked 9th in the world ? not to long ago that would have been expected . I for one feel this is a big issue . This mentality of its ok to not be the best .

    When NZl have a bad game they still beat Georgia by 30 points
    when the boks have a bad game they loose to the Pumas and Japan .

  • Comment 174, posted at 06.10.15 14:19:54 by Zibbie Reply
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  • Interesting that both JW and EJ have thrown their names in the hat for the England coaching job. England would be stupid not to get both of them on board.

  • Comment 175, posted at 06.10.15 14:21:02 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 174) : Nothing in sport is guaranteed im afraid. And if we think the Boks are in the same league as the All Blacks think again. we are so far behind and dont let those silly ranking tell you anything. The Boks beat the All Blacks mayb once every few years. Comparing us to them is like comparing the Rand and the Dollar. So yes the Boks should be praised for beating a good Scottish side convincingly. Altho mayb im not such a pessimist as most

  • Comment 176, posted at 06.10.15 14:24:05 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 174) : I think you being over confidant, the top10 today is nothing like the top10 a few years ago. Most teams now have players who play professional rugby in other countries if their own don’t have good clubs. Today the teams who are on top are the teams who are mentally strong and not physically. That is why NZ is the top team in the world. Their mental toughness is by far the best of all teams today, that is also why they managed to beat Georgia by 30 points even though they played terrible.

  • Comment 177, posted at 06.10.15 14:25:17 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 175) : Will be interesting to see if they appoint a foreigner. If they do it wont go down well with certain parties there

  • Comment 178, posted at 06.10.15 14:30:10 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 175) : Maybe Meyer will apply for it as well,he had a stint in the U.K recently,but ran out on his club mid season.
    Well we can only wish,don’t think I can stomach another 4 Bok years of stamp Kar Bulls,skop and maul rugby.
    And I think as one who has watched the Boks on three/four counting New Zealand continents,watched 2 winning WC finals,,I have a right to an opinion.
    I would love to see our Boks play with the power,skill,intelligence and passion shown by the Argies against Tonga.

  • Comment 179, posted at 06.10.15 14:34:57 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 176) : i read somewhere that the Scottish selected a B side . Might just be me tough .

    @SheldonK (Comment 176) : @Uli Boelie (Comment 177) : So why have we fallen behind so badly ? what went wrong ? Because we certainly could be on the same level as the AB’s . No reason we cant .

  • Comment 180, posted at 06.10.15 14:35:36 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 169) : Morne, Pollard. Lambie has never been started in a RC game by HM. Maybe it would have been more had he been given the opportunity. Pollard has now played 4 games against All Blacks and lost 1. Morne in the last 4 years 2012/2013 played 5 and lost all of them.

  • Comment 181, posted at 06.10.15 14:45:14 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 177) : I think you are onto something ,think how many SA’s are in other national teams and how many more in foreign clubs.But there isn’t one South African based foreign international,except a guy called Perez who is supposed to play for the Sharks and a couple of Namibians.
    Whereas all these other countries are benefitting from different styles of rugby being played in their teams,we are not.
    Our game is old and boring and very predictable.If Japan and Argentina can take us apart then hell who is next,I for one am very happy we never played Tonga,Georgia or Argentina,this time

  • Comment 182, posted at 06.10.15 14:47:35 by The hound Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 168) : Brilliant points about the Springboks. You should write a blog or become a rugby journalist.

    I will always support the Boks. I am not sure this team has what it takes.

    1. Our forward pack is not bad. Feel schalk stands in the backline too much and Flouw is not as an effective fetcher as Brussouw. Teams fear Brussouw. FLouw has not impressed me much.

    2. Pollard has not shown that he has a cool head under pressure. He reminds of the French Rugby team. Scatter brained and not organised. I have a feeling he will implode in the quarters or semis

    3. Our lack of a good second centre. Wales and New Zealand will obviously pick up on this weakness.

    There is not much we can do now but play kick and pray rugby with passion and no brains.

  • Comment 183, posted at 06.10.15 14:52:25 by Mocho Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 170) :

    I didn’t read comments like that. Who said guys are being selected to spite others? Heyneke himself has said (I spotted this guy as a kid when I coached at the Bulls). And you yourself has said coaches always have favorites. I’m calling for sanity and there being a selectors panel, who can overrule a coach, if they believe a coaches favoritism is clouding his judgment. You are stuck on something that is closer to fiction than fact.

    It’s just interesting to me that you feel some players should be given an extended run, but when we say Lambie should, suddenly all hell breaks loose.

    At the end of 2013 Lambie was given 2 games in a row. The call (from “one eyed sharksworlders” was then to continue on with him in 2014. He was however not started in one game in 2014 until the end of year tour, where he was again given 2 games…. and then again dropped for 2015.

    Your argument holds no water, if you cannot admit that some players are given more opportunities (and not necessarily based on their season or how good they were), than others.

  • Comment 184, posted at 06.10.15 14:52:29 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 171) :

    Why?

  • Comment 185, posted at 06.10.15 14:53:05 by Letgo Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 182) : im confident that i can pick a Lions team that would give the boks a run for their money …
    and thats very sad

  • Comment 186, posted at 06.10.15 14:55:03 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 184) : U have clearly read selected comments then as many have said players selected to spite players like Lambie etc. Ive never said that lambie shouldnt get an extended run- he has played many games for the Boks…and after all of them im still not convinced he is anything but a safe and dependable option at 10. I think he could offer more at 15. But believe what you will. I will just remember to copy and paste your comments when the next Bok coach does the same and the next

  • Comment 187, posted at 06.10.15 14:59:15 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 172) : @Uli Boelie (Comment 177) :

    Therein lies the problem. I don’t agree that Pollard had a “damn good game”, neither do I agree that the Boks did.

    The Boks in the first 20 minutes dominated. Especially the forwards and how Fourie controlled the game, however during this period Pollard hardly touched the ball (one uk reviewer said and I quote “The first half of the game was one of the easiest armchair rides an international flyhalf will ever get”). Aside from the one break Pollard made and the one drop, please tell me what he did so “damn good”.

    Remember, I am not disagreeing that he is an excellent talent and I am still of the opinion that he is one of the better 10′s we’ll have in this country, but why praise him when he didn’t do much? He did make a massive error that could have been costly against better opposition and again had a poor out of hand kicking display. Didn’t pass very often and again took the ball into contact when there was options out wide.

    I am not even saying replace him with Lambie, simply saying call it what it is. If you’re going to go on about a player who had a solid game, at best, it will draw a reaction.

    Also, the Boks started playing poorly in the second half. Too many errors and poor decision making not nearly as composed as the first.

  • Comment 188, posted at 06.10.15 15:02:24 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 180) : When were we ever on the same level as the All Blacks? Yes we may win a few games here and there but def not on the same level. And those games we win is due to the Boks traditional game plan which nobody wants to play. I said it on a previous thread somewhere…the All Blacks find guys that are good rugby players and condition them, in SA we find the best conditioned guys and try teach them rugby- thats the difference

  • Comment 189, posted at 06.10.15 15:03:11 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 187) : Personally i think the game plan is as big an issue as the players being selected .

    This game plan will even make Dan Carter look bad

  • Comment 190, posted at 06.10.15 15:03:26 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 187) :

    The word spite was used 3 times in this comment section. Use find and see. You, then me commenting on your comment, then you again. So, ???

  • Comment 191, posted at 06.10.15 15:03:43 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 188) : Ok thats fair…i base it on him attacking the line and thus creating space out wide where we scored as defense had to be concerned about him. Yes the intercept was a mistake but if the guy defending had held an extra second Kriel would have got the ball and try time so small margin. So lets look at lambie against Japan…stood deep…slowly shifted the ball and our outside backs got bundled into touch often. When we were in the Japan 22 he never dropped into the pocket and kicked a drop goal to keep us out of reach. He also never broke the line or attacked that first channel. Now do i believe thats a true reflection of Lambie’s ability- no.

  • Comment 192, posted at 06.10.15 15:09:09 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 189) : Maybe its time that SA rugby is given an overhaul . times change . so should the boks . yes the Bulls were the best side for may years . I dotn believe they are any longer the best team in the country . Nor do they have the best game plan . Change it and the boks will perform and be on the level of the AB’s . we can do it .

  • Comment 193, posted at 06.10.15 15:09:55 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 191) : I meant on previous threads…but forget it

  • Comment 194, posted at 06.10.15 15:11:15 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 187) : @Letgo (Comment 191) :

    Actually, I don’t think Meyer really cares about Lambie or how his selections influence him. I don’t think Meyers selections has anything to do with Lambie and don’t believe that is what anyone is saying.

    What we are saying is that he is selecting his favorites. Lambie so happens not to be his favorite so this does influence him, but he is not doing it because he has an agenda against Lambie.

    Spite – a desire to hurt, annoy, or offend someone.

    Yeah, I’m not reading through all 200 comments again, but I don’t think anyone thinks Heyneke has any ill thoughts towards Lambie/Jantjies/Jaco Kriel/Whiteley/Mapoe (Lions players and supporters)/ Reinach/ Mvovo … or any other player he did not select.

    He simply likes/knows has a bias towards certain players. While this negatively affects players who may be in better form or even better in general that favorite of Heyneke, I do not believe he does it to hurt/ spite the players that he hasn’t selected.

    The reason for him doing it isn’t as important as the fact that having bias in your selection can and has hurt the Boks in Meyers tenure.

  • Comment 195, posted at 06.10.15 15:13:03 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 190) : I disagree- we dotn have the players to play the expansive game of the All Blacks. We arent skilled enough nor are we close to fit enough. There are slowly some youngsters coming through that can possibly play a similar gameplan but at the moment it would be silly to try. @Zibbie (Comment 193) : Times are slowly changing- even the way the Bulls play is changing. As i said these young guys coming through do have both the skills and the size etc. But its not an instant thing…its a progression. Give it time and have the patience to know that results may not always be favourable

  • Comment 196, posted at 06.10.15 15:15:24 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Letgo (Comment 195) : Yes Heyneke Meyer has favourites, so did Pieter DeVilliers, So did Jake White, So did Nick Mallet. So what makes you think the next coach wont have? And i refuse to believe there isnt a selection committee in place…there always has been one.

  • Comment 197, posted at 06.10.15 15:20:28 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 192) :

    I agree Pollard does attack the line and do draw defenders, the problem is, because they know, more often than not he will not pass, they are not really to concerned about his attack. Willem Alberts also draws defense, but I won’t play him at 10. Pollard doesn’t take on the line and then gets a good pass away, when he does pass, he passes immediately, before taking the line on.

    I watched the Japan game more than once, you assessment of Lambie’s game, I have a feeling, is a geustimation. The Boks actually scored every time we got into Japans half, it would have been stupid of Lambie to take a drop, since we either scored the try or got the penalty. Lambie did attack the first line 6 times (looked up the stats for another Pollard defender) and made more meters than Pollard did in both the Samoan and Scotland game (Pollard took on the line twice as much. Also, our wings didn’t get bundled into touch our backline (though a little impotent, I must admit), looked solid, made some 15 to 20 meters with a move across the field, only for a bad fundamental error to stop the momentum.

    I knew that people would attack Lambies game so I watched that game again particularly to see how he played. He made the one error (bad skew directly into touch), but did not play badly after that (why did I know he would be made a scapegoat).

    Pollard came on with us leading played 22 minutes, didn’t pass once, made one break, and two poor kicks. He and Jesse, were also caught out in defense for that final try (granted a difficult defending position, but as Mallet explained…. Jesse should have shifted on to the next defender and Pollard taken the guy who bumped Jesse to make the try offload).

    Mallet afterwards also showed another clip of Pollards bad defending positioning, but off course blamed Lambie, even though he was already subbed at this point.

  • Comment 198, posted at 06.10.15 15:23:18 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 198) : I did watch the Japan game although not with Lambie tinted glasses. but i see its not worth arguing

  • Comment 199, posted at 06.10.15 15:28:01 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 197) :

    Jake had favorites. Jake also dropped the favorites that were out of form. There were guys that he selected that I thought weren’t the best, but Jake gave reasonable explanations why he preferred certain players (because of certain skill-sets – Montgomery for example: Jake wanted a good position, save and set kicking fullback, that is solid rather than creative, but also a risk).

    PD had no clue what he was doing, I refuse to have a discussion regarding that clown. I don’t even think he had favorites.

    Nick Mallet also wanted guys to play a certain way, his players weren’t out of form though, out of form players were dropped.

    Id you have two in form players, that’s fine, then it’s coaches choice, but that hasn’t always been the case with Meyer.

  • Comment 200, posted at 06.10.15 15:29:06 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 195) : Compare Meyer to Cheika,
    Cheka hired his main Super 15 rival coach as his assistant,Meyer hired his ex bosses’s son.
    Cheika cleaned all the old deadwood out of the Wallabies with absolutely no sentiment,his rules if you fit to play you play ,if you are not you are not,Meyer picked his squad 18 months ago and promised them that they would go to the cup no matter what condition they were in.
    Cheika honed his squad and his gameplay during the RC.Meyer choose round one of the WC to do that.
    Meyer sits on his own away from the team in a Bok Blazer bark orders to them on a radio.Cheka sits with the team in an unmarked tracksuit.
    Cheka got rid of Higginbottom a great player in form but a maverick and a walking yellow card,Meyer stuck with Jannie and introduced Connie as an alternative two of the worst yellow the game. card offenders in the history of the game.I could go on forever.

  • Comment 201, posted at 06.10.15 15:31:07 by The hound Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 200) : Jake White and John Smit over Bismarck, Nic Mallet and Bobby Skinstad over Teichman. Just as examples you overlooked. But as i said not worth arguing.

  • Comment 202, posted at 06.10.15 15:34:14 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Letgo (Comment 188) : Let me ask you what has Lambie actually done to cement his place in the team? To come back to your argument about him not being afforded game time in 2014 you forget that he was injured most of that year hence FS having to play FH all season long for the Sharks.
    I appreciate the fact that you are trying to be unbiased, but I really think you need to work harder on it.
    Pollard had a good game, expect for that pass that they scored a try from he had a darn good game. If you want to compare apples with apples, does Lambie blossom when his pack is not dominating? That said I personally don’t take much notice from English papers considering their own teams have been in taters for years. Pollard attacks the gain line very well, just like Honiball used too, he doesnt stand as deep either and considering how everyone moans about stamp kar rugby on here then Pollard should be your flyhalf and not lambie. Lambie stands too deep and dont attack as well as he does. There are other things that Lambie does well, which is why in wet weather conditions I would much rather let him take the no10 spot than pollard.

  • Comment 203, posted at 06.10.15 15:34:54 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 202) : Amen, you can add Divvy there too with JS over Bissie.
    One wonders why JS fired Plum, he was the only guy who eventually said Bissie over JS, but hey, then he is favoring Bissie… so now where does this stop? ;)

  • Comment 204, posted at 06.10.15 15:36:01 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 199) :

    Yeah, you take every comment just the way one want to see it. As long as the other person are wrong and stupid and only love Lambie and hate Heyneke. That’s all you can see in any comment. Oh and we also hate Gary Gold. He’s not a bad coach, we just hate him.

    I didn’t watch the game with Lambie tinted glasses. I watched the game meticulously, looking for specific things. Where the Boks had gone wrong and specifically what contribution Lambie had to this. And how his game compared to Pollard who played 1/3 of what Lambie did on that day. Neither flyhalf had much of an impact (no back did, the ball hardly ever was seen by the backline), yet you believe Lambie had a bad game…. no not that the team had a bad game and that hardly any player had a chance of coming out of that game unscathed (including Pollard in his 23 minutes).

    You say you didn’t watch the game with Lambie tinted glasses, clearly their was some kind of tint on it, because Lambie did take on the first channel (according to official stats 6 times).

    I’m being Lambie bias if I tell you the facts?

    You should stop trying to argue your point, because you do it with made up facts. Once you get your facts straight, come back and try again.

  • Comment 205, posted at 06.10.15 15:37:31 by Letgo Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 201) : Yeh good points that Cheika has done well- but he had to as when he took over the Ozzies were in trouble. And his inital results werent great lets remember. I also cant remember how many major injuries Cheika has had? Or the amount of political interference? Is Meyer the perfect coach, definitely not. Is some perspective needed, perhaps

  • Comment 206, posted at 06.10.15 15:38:58 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 202) :

    John Smit wasn’t out of form and Bobby Skinstad also a great player in his own right, playing good rugby.

    Jean de Villiers, Morne Steyn, Victor Matfield, Bryan Habana at times, Pierre Spies for the longest time, Jannie, JPP, Zane Kirchner, Schalk Burger, Ruan Pienaar …. all guys that could have been replace by better players (I’m not saying all of them would have been out permenantly, but they would have had to fight to get their place back in the team).

  • Comment 207, posted at 06.10.15 15:41:05 by Letgo Reply
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  • I am relieved to Morne Steyn ready to play. We are going to have to call on a deadly accurate kicker and drop goal FH with BMT.
    We have 3 good FH with different styles available.

  • Comment 208, posted at 06.10.15 15:42:14 by KILLER SHARK Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 205) : Did the backline score vs Japan? No. Who run that backline majority of the game- Lambie. Those are the facts. Did i say that was an indication of his ability- no. Ur such star studded fan its scary! Have i ever said Lambie is a bad player- no! But keep arguing for your no.1. He will never be the Boks no.1 so you can keep pressing repeat year after year.

  • Comment 209, posted at 06.10.15 15:42:59 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • Question
    Does anyone miss Jean de Villiers and his inspired leadership.
    What a mess that was.

  • Comment 210, posted at 06.10.15 15:45:39 by The hound Reply
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  • We need a FH who can get the backline running smarter. Steyn may be the guy.

  • Comment 211, posted at 06.10.15 15:46:33 by KILLER SHARK Reply
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  • @KILLER SHARK (Comment 211) : Yes we saw your comment… :evil: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 212, posted at 06.10.15 15:48:27 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 203) :

    Except for the Japan game, Lambie delivered a number of flyhalf masterclasses at 10 in the few one of games HM gave him. And if you remember correctly, he was praised for his control of the game, almost every time he was given that opportunity. The way you phrase your question, really should be something to question a coach on, not a player. Cement won’t dry if it’s not given time. Two games in a row is not enough for any player to cement their place.

    Damina, who has been by far the best 12 in SA in the last 2 seasons are only just starting to do that and have no started every game but one, this year. That is 7 out of 8 games.

    Give Lambie 7 games in a row, if the cement doesn’t seem to be getting dry by that point, I’ll concede that that he doesn’t have what it takes. For now, he hasn’t been given the opportunity to do so.

    Maybe you want to phrase your question differently, or does that answer your question?

    Not too mention that in the 12 games that Pollard has started (more starts at 10 than Lambie under HM in 4 years), there is still question over his games, while he has had the time.

  • Comment 213, posted at 06.10.15 15:48:35 by Letgo Reply
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  • @KILLER SHARK (Comment 211) : Ive seen Steyn in bits and parts for his French side so will be interesting to see what he can bring to the table. Just wonder how much time he will get. Guess it depends on the scores

  • Comment 214, posted at 06.10.15 15:48:38 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 212) : :lol: :lol:

  • Comment 215, posted at 06.10.15 15:50:02 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 209) :

    Like you don’t kiss that poster of Handre above your bed before you go to sleep every night.

    Just tell me if you would like to get back to the rugby, if you’d rather play this game, I can have fun with that to.

  • Comment 216, posted at 06.10.15 15:53:07 by Letgo Reply
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  • Hehehe Uli. I saw I was re-qouted.
    Sheldon I am going to make an prediction and that is that Steyn will score more than 20 points against the USA in the time he is on the field if he gets more than 20 minutes.

  • Comment 217, posted at 06.10.15 15:53:41 by KILLER SHARK Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 213) : Look your argument for a 10 is irrelevant if you don’t take into account who the 9 is.
    Pollard with Fourie a much better bet than Lambie with Pienaar,which is what you are arguing,but Lambie with Fourie different story.
    Carter never played better than with Marshall,Larkham and Gregan,and Joost even made Stransky look good.

  • Comment 218, posted at 06.10.15 15:54:55 by The hound Reply
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  • @KILLER SHARK (Comment 217) : I am honest with you, a MS in top form I would take any day, go take a look at all his records he has
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morn%C3%A9_Steyn

  • Comment 219, posted at 06.10.15 15:58:34 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 216) : Yes i prefer Pollard to Lambie at 10. At the moment he has won 2 games starting at flyhalf and Lambie lost one. You love your facts so there’s 1 for you. Is it an indication of both their ability no but you love your facts.

  • Comment 220, posted at 06.10.15 15:59:09 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 218) : Good point, that’s also like saying Reinach should be his scrummy when clearly Reinach hampers Lambie’s game.

  • Comment 221, posted at 06.10.15 15:59:42 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 219) : The record is wrong, he is a Bull so they faked those records.

  • Comment 222, posted at 06.10.15 16:00:27 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 209) :

    Seriously, you haven’t considered the poor performance by our forwards in that game, and the fact that we were missing other key players in our backline in that game. Again, not to mention that Pollard did nothing in the 22 minutes he was on the field? And I am the “star studded fan” (I don’t think u used star studded right by the way).

    If anything Willie has by far outshone both these guys at 10 (even Schalk are doing more at 10 than they are), but I haven’t actually praised Lambie for his World Cup performances now have I.

    I said he didn’t have a bad game, made one error, did take on the advantage line, the backs were not pushed into touch (I don’t know where you dreamed that one up).

    Neither Lambie nor Pollard has had their best game during RWC.

    I’m not looking at their last few games, if we are, then based on Pollard against Argentina, why is he even at the World Cup?

    I’m looking at their overall skill set and what they bring to the team. Again, never said Pollard was a bad player. Have actually said I think he’s very talented. I like how he carried the ball, but I believe Lambie is better than him right now. Brings a more complete game to the Boks and will manage bigger matched better than Pollard would.

  • Comment 223, posted at 06.10.15 16:03:45 by Letgo Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 222) : :shock: :lol:
    Of course , and to make things worst, it was done by stamp kar rugby, yet the Bulls won the S14 3 times during that time, also scoring the most tries each time….

  • Comment 224, posted at 06.10.15 16:03:47 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 221) : Reinach has impacted Lambie’s game in that he now stands deeper as Reinach usually runs from the base a bit. Lambie plays better with a scrumhalf that clears from the base. Im not sure that a ball playing 8 suits most SA players so would also prefer an 8 like Vermuelen that just clears rucks etc.

  • Comment 225, posted at 06.10.15 16:04:06 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 224) : The Bulls didnt win anything. It was all an illusiona nd trick to get their players in the Bok side. Just ask the New Zealanders they will tell u they were tricked.

  • Comment 226, posted at 06.10.15 16:05:48 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Letgo (Comment 223) : That is exactly the problem why both flyhalf are not on top of their games Letgo, Burger is constantly running in the flyhalf channel and blocking them from dictating the game. Burger is getting so much praise for his game, however he is not doing his work in the forwards. Go have a look at the scots game again and see how he constantly goes to the ruck just to turn around when he gets there and go stand in the flyhalf channel.

  • Comment 227, posted at 06.10.15 16:06:23 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 226) : :lol: ;-)

  • Comment 228, posted at 06.10.15 16:07:55 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 213) : If memory serves, Lambie started every game the Boks played in Europe in 2013. He was solid, we won all the games, but nothing outstanding. He did his job. Period.
    I guess Meyer wanted more.
    PS – any one willing to watch the Japan disaster again must have an obsession with a certain player or is a masochist. :-)

  • Comment 229, posted at 06.10.15 16:08:01 by Blue Centurion Reply

    Blue CenturionCurrie Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 220) :

    And I have no issue with that Pollard is a good player. Can I ask you if you are concerned at all that he might make a poor call with 3 points ahead or behind against Wales in the quarters (think it will be Wales). Or if we manage to get to the semi’s against the All Blacks?

    I have never contested that he is a talented, physical rugby player, my contention is whether he is a talented flyhalf (at this point).

  • Comment 230, posted at 06.10.15 16:08:46 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Blue Centurion (Comment 229) : Correct he also missed most of 2014 because of injury, hence him not getting a chance again in 2014 until the end of the year. Damit how many chances does a guy get anyway?

  • Comment 231, posted at 06.10.15 16:10:31 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 223) : Remember i did say that is just a fact not a very good indication of anything and contrary to what people people a rugby team doesnt hinge on 1 guy. Yes u have said you think Lambie is better suited to the 10 than Pollard. My opinion is that Pollard is better suited at 10 but Lambie would offer better value out wide as he can make the crucial decisions as the defense has to be aware of Pollard closer in. I would also prefer Willie on the wing to Habana. I can see why Meyer is backing Pollard as he brings attributes that no other 10 in SA does. Does that mean what Lambie brings is bad- no. Its just different. Had the SA public and critics been happy with the Boks kicking game approach would Meyer be playing Pollard over Lambie- i dont think so.

  • Comment 232, posted at 06.10.15 16:11:30 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Blue Centurion (Comment 229) :

    I always watch our worst performances again. The only Sharks loss I haven’t watched more than once, is :cry: …. :cry: :cry: :cry: 2007.

    I like technical analyses. Have tried to get a sort of an internship at the Sharks to get a better idea of what the technical analyst at teams does and whether it is a career option I could consider.

    When things go wrong, I like knowing what went wrong.

    I honestly do not believe it was Lambie/Pollard (in second half). Jeans defense was weak (Pollard was caught a little out of position on defense once or twice), but on a attack, we honestly looked really good until someone had a brain fart, and those brain farts didn’t come from our backs. we didn’t make stupid chips or silly passes (or were bunched into touch), the forwards had a horrendous day at the office.

    I’m not professional though, but from a second analytic viewing, that was my opinion of that match … not to mention that Japan actually played really well, smart, and didn’t make any errors. They played a perfect game.

  • Comment 233, posted at 06.10.15 16:14:02 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 221) : exactly,I still think Fourie is the best 9 in the country and you watch Pollards drop on Sat ,it was made entirely by Fourie,he told him where to stand and gave him the most beautiful pass, and all the time in the world.
    My problem is has he got another 4 games in him each one harder than the previous,and if he breaks down there is no one to replace him,unlike Mattfield and deVilliers nobody can step into his place,definitely not Reinarch.

  • Comment 234, posted at 06.10.15 16:14:22 by The hound Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 230) : Yeh Pollard may make an error…but what he wil do is make sure the defense doesnt shift as he gets the ball as if he goes through he is gone. So yes sometimes he takes it in when he could pass- so did Honiball. He will get the balance right. And its why i say Lambie at 15 so when Pollard has kept the inside defenders honest then Lambie can join the line late and put the guys on the outside away. At the moment Lambie is standing a bit deep at 10 and just shifting the ball- if he changes that then yeh by all means let him start there..but then again who is making the smart decisions out wide?

  • Comment 235, posted at 06.10.15 16:15:05 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 234) : I think he will play until the end even if he was injured, its his last stand.

  • Comment 236, posted at 06.10.15 16:16:01 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 233) : If you want to be a technical analyst i do currently know the guy working with the Sharks. It requires some computing knowledge and the willingness to shift through masses and masses of data.

  • Comment 237, posted at 06.10.15 16:16:52 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 225) :

    I like this comment, this is something I can work with. Never really though of Reinach running the ball a bit. Lambie and Reinach has had very good games together though, most prominently and recently the England game last year. Maybe this is because Cobus focused more on just getting the ball out quickly.

    Also never though about how a more linking 8 versus a ball carrying 8 could impact Lambie and Pollards more flat games.

  • Comment 238, posted at 06.10.15 16:17:18 by Letgo Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 235) :

    I would love to see them both in the same team, but Lambie’s decision making abilities is wasted at 15 IMO, he is a very good 15 though. I wouldn’t mind seeing them as a 10/12 combo, not allocating either to one position specifically.

    There would be advantages in Pollard sometimes taking it as 10, while Lambie takes it as 10 other times.

    And I know then Damian will have to move to 13 and he’s been way better at 12, never really impressed as 13, but with a passing 12, Damian should still see the ball a lot, just with a little more time.

    Also, I’m not convinced that we should use Jesse at 13 yet. I love his attacking abilities, but I would prefer if we use him on the bench now and rather give him a season in SR at 13 before giving him a go there again.

    I Know the Pollard 10/ Damian 12 combo will stay, so I’m tempted to say rather play Jan their. He has been solid at best lately, but that counts for attack and defense.

  • Comment 239, posted at 06.10.15 16:25:57 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 238) : Reinach will pick up the ball and challenge the first couple defenders before passing…its meant that Lambie stands deeper to accommodate. And why perhaps a ball palying 8 may have same effect- which is why whitely does better with a guy that likes to stand deeper in Boschoff than in the Bok camp with Lambie/Pollard. I feel Reinach will be a lot more dangerous if he cleared from the base majority of the time and sniped on the odd occassion. Reinach also doesnt run the cover defense line very well which has led to a poor sharks scramble defense. So what will it take for me to want Lambie to start at 10- take the ball flatter and fix the first channel defenders before shifting the ball. Also a poitn i brought up on some other thread- the forwards arent able to get in Pollard’s way as much as Lambie’s as Pollard takes the ball flat and hard that the forwards dont have time to get there and in the way unless its slow ball.

  • Comment 240, posted at 06.10.15 16:27:34 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 237) :

    Dude, I already shift through masses and masses of data and I don’t even get paid to do, in fact I’m doing it at risk of losing the one I have now! ;-)

    I’d love to do something like that!

    It just depends on what computer skills you mean, I’m not a techy. I know office and the rest of the day to day computer stuff… I’d be willing to do the studies necessary to get the computer skills I need though.

  • Comment 241, posted at 06.10.15 16:28:44 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 239) : Just another thing to consider… Pollard and Lmabie would link up better as a 10/15 than Pollard,Lambie currently do with leRoux

  • Comment 242, posted at 06.10.15 16:29:52 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 240) :

    That’s interesting.

    I feel like this is the type of instruction that could easily be given to a 9 though. Reinach is certainly capable of giving quick ball (I’ve seen him do it), it’s just not his style.

    Also, this could be way Pollard is has been invisible at some times (these last 2 games) and other times you’re thinking how well he’s taking the ball up – Fourie isn’t simply a quick ball scrummy, he does both… and Pollard and Lambie maybe needs to know to adapt, fall back when Fourie draws the first defender, get in closer when they need quick ball.

    This will take communication and getting to know the player.

  • Comment 243, posted at 06.10.15 16:33:38 by Letgo Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 240) :

    Just one point on that… Lambie has only been given 2 games by HM. It takes time to build up that confidence to play the ball flat.

    With the Arg game he also started out much deeper and ended up actually making a half break or two.

    That goes back to coaches preference. HM rather gave Pollard that time to work on his game, than getting Lambie confidence and in peak form.

    I still feel like with the amount of time both our backup flyhalfs have been given HM you could hardly blame them if they’re not at their best to step into the starting role.

  • Comment 244, posted at 06.10.15 16:37:39 by Letgo Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 237) : @Letgo (Comment 241) :

    Gotta go, but please email me [email protected]

  • Comment 245, posted at 06.10.15 16:39:15 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 139) : Yes, I can see why you’d think that picking former World Junior Player of the Year, Jan Serfontein ahead of Ebersohn was the product of a Bulls fixation. Lets be a bit objective.

  • Comment 246, posted at 06.10.15 16:40:34 by JR Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 240) :

    Glad we could settle the argument or at least come to a point of discussion and not bickering back and forth … I love rugby, if you make a good technical argument I feel like a would consider your argument….. even if that argument is against Lambie. ;-)

  • Comment 247, posted at 06.10.15 16:42:00 by Letgo Reply
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  • I wish Lambie and Pollard would consider part-time jobs as politicians so we won’t be allowed to discuss them on Sharksworld anymore.

  • Comment 248, posted at 06.10.15 17:09:15 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 248) : :mrgreen: Good one…

  • Comment 249, posted at 06.10.15 17:53:12 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 220) : Sjoe, Lambie lost that game? Wow. I thought Schalk at 10 and crap forwards and poor leadership decisions lost that game. Besides…we were leading when Lambie left the field…

  • Comment 250, posted at 06.10.15 18:01:44 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 248) : @pastorshark (Comment 250) : Sorry…I just completely ignored your good suggestion… :grin:

  • Comment 251, posted at 06.10.15 18:02:43 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 250) : Yup I agree 100% with you

  • Comment 252, posted at 06.10.15 18:10:27 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 114) : Just two quick points from me:
    1. Ignore my comment…I have been a bit grumpy today! :grin:
    2. I still don’t think the number one reason guys and girls on here dislike HM and want to be rid of him is Lambie. I think the number 1 reason is results…and then I think there are several other reasons before the Lambie thing…the Lambie thing is discussed much because people are passionate about it but it is not the number 1 reason why people want HM out…

  • Comment 253, posted at 06.10.15 18:29:21 by pastorshark Reply
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  • I disagree that HM doesn’t know what Steyn brings. It’s not like he has a varied and complex repertoire anyone and everyone can tell you what he brings. This has not changed in 5 years. If he is in its just for one reason HM has to make use of him somewhere else face criticism for not using a younger and more capable player in the spot steyn took up and was then never used. That and the fact that it’s one of his original picks and HM is nothing if not obstinate. If you heard his weak justification of steyns pick, he a mentor and brings calmness. Really a mentor to whom neither of the current flyhalfs were mentored by him or learned from him….thankfully. and that is the only thing HM could stutteringly come up with. He wasn’t even convinced by his own weak justification.

  • Comment 254, posted at 06.10.15 18:34:36 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @duncanbetteridge (Comment 5)

    I agree!!!I’m not even going to watch!!!

  • Comment 255, posted at 06.10.15 20:48:22 by Den Reply

    DenCurrie Cup player
     
  • @duncanbetteridge (Comment 9) :

    Like Pollard would have done any better with the rest of the players on the field. Lambie has not had a chance to play alongside Fourie yet!

  • Comment 256, posted at 06.10.15 20:52:12 by Den Reply

    DenCurrie Cup player
     
  • Here we go again…I smell a debate about to be reopened! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 257, posted at 06.10.15 20:54:39 by pastorshark Reply
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  • (Comment 33) :
    My sentiments exactly

  • Comment 258, posted at 06.10.15 21:02:39 by Den Reply

    DenCurrie Cup player
     
  • I believe the choice of playing Pollard or Lambie is based on on the individuals default setting.

    Pollard by default will play flat, giving him less time to kick for space and will probably make him an attacking FH.

    Lambie will by default play deeper and prone to look for different options( kicking running or offloading). Lambie better alround player. Only problem is that I don’t see him as the best at running the ball and probably not the best tactical kicker. Lambie is overall will do beter than Pollard.

    Steyn will only play deep and is our best tactical FH by far.

    The Boks problem is no one stands out.

    Cold and raining conditions = Steyn
    When Pienaar plays SH you must play Lambie. ( That said Lambie will do much better playing with Fourie)

    IN ALL FAIRNESS MOST FH WILL DO BETTER WITH FOURIE

    When Fourie plays you should play Pollard this will give you the tactical genuis of Fourie and the Natural attacking mindset of Pollard.

    I believe play Lambie at Fulback and Willie at wing.

  • Comment 259, posted at 06.10.15 21:30:05 by zandberg 1983 Reply

     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 169) : I think you forget who closed that game out…not denying the good running game from Pollard of course, but we didn’t do enough tactically to take that game away from them.

    Also a combo that would (excuse the vulgar tone) make me rock hard would be a Lambo, Pollard, De Allende, Le Roux in the 10/12/13/15 axis. Pollard being a ball runner maybe suits to play 12 (personal opinions of course) with Lambie reading the game. Not discounting Jesse here, but I wouldn’t be mad to see that at all!!

    If HM rotated players in key positions like Hansen does, I wouldn’t mind who his first choice would be as much. This business of expecting a flyhallf to gain confidence and form in the last 10-15min off the bench is bullshit. Look how they used Sopoaga against us. Let him start with the support of a full strength team around him and see how he goes. Granted he only played the once but they do that regularly enough in key positions. – This is something that South African management has sucked at for years now

  • Comment 260, posted at 07.10.15 01:43:26 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111Currie Cup player
     
  • @Den (Comment 256) : Prior to the WC both Pollard and Lambie had one start outside FdP. I grow weary of people trying to justify why Lambie didn’t nail down the starting berth. Lambie played with FdP vs> Scotland in Nov 2013. A 28-0 drubbing handed to the Scots.
    Next one I got was that Lambie had to play outside “slow as mud” Pienaar! In fact in the 10 starts both had, Pollard started 6 times with Pienaar and Lambie 3.
    Lambie had 10 test starts at flyhallf. 3 each with Pienaar, Reinach and Houghaard, and 1 with FdP.
    Pollard had 10 test starts at flyhallf. 6 with Reinach, 1 with Fdp and 3 with Reinach.

  • Comment 261, posted at 07.10.15 06:30:18 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • I would just be happy if HM can move on from Steyn. As for the two other guys they can duke it out. But at least it leaves an opening for a talented challenger to try come in at nr 3.

  • Comment 262, posted at 07.10.15 06:40:52 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 262) : That is my take on it too…

  • Comment 263, posted at 07.10.15 07:06:54 by pastorshark Reply
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  • I just saw on the expreso show on SABC 3 Kervin Bosch FH of the EP Craven Week team signed with the Sharks… He is as far as I can gather a great prospect for the future and played SA u/18 wonder if Lambie gonna play behind him in the next year or 2… Would love to see the comments here if he does.

  • Comment 264, posted at 07.10.15 07:30:37 by Lassy_lion Reply
    Author
    Lassy_lionUnder 21 player
     
  • @Lassy_lion (Comment 264) : It would be funny…but it’s not going to happen…he is only u18 after all! Glad to see that confirmed though. Have we still heard nothing from the Sharks on this?

  • Comment 265, posted at 07.10.15 07:33:46 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @JR (Comment 246) :

    I never said it’s a Bulls Fixation.

    And I was quiet pleased for him to have been selected…. but I would most probably have given him one year of senior rugby to prove himself. Ebersohn was our best 12 at the time and I would have loved to have seen him being given at least 1 or 2 games to showcase his abilities at international level.

    Noting that my bigger gripe was still Jean de Villiers being selected at this time without considering his form. I always felt he was a class player, so got Jean’s selection, but I feel like if a player like Ebersohn as an outstanding season or two, they should be given opportunities…. actually Heyneke even brought Waynand Oliver back and used him on the bench for a few games, instead of using Ebersohn.

  • Comment 266, posted at 07.10.15 07:35:13 by Letgo Reply
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  • Having finally read through all the comments in this thread, and not wanting to contribute to the whole Lambie argument starting up again, can I just say this: I have always said we have two good flyhalves in Pollard and Lambie. I think Lambie is very unlucky not to be first choice based on everything that has been on display since the 2013 end of year tour. This season especially has seen HM give Pollard more of an opportunity than Lambie was ever afforded – I don’t think that can really be argued. Based on that, I think Sharks fans on a Sharks fan site are more than welcome to clamour away about that. I don’t think it would be any different on, for example, a Lions fan page when it came to discussing the loose forward position. That’s all…

  • Comment 267, posted at 07.10.15 07:43:26 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 267) : You read all the comments?…you’re a patient man pastor.

    …and yeah, I fully agree with you sentiments.

  • Comment 268, posted at 07.10.15 07:54:42 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 268) : :mrgreen: The occasional speed reading took place when things became repetitive…repeatedly… :mrgreen:

  • Comment 269, posted at 07.10.15 08:05:02 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 79) : no no, jannie is still very much high on priorities. he has that knee issue so its fine for now, but to me he should be number 1.

  • Comment 270, posted at 07.10.15 08:13:24 by Jeremiser Reply
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  • My two cents worth on the Lambie vs pollard issue if i may. I think we are lucky to have 2 very talented flyhalves with both being youngsters still who should be around bok rugby for a good few years, and it really doesnt bother me who starts as there are pros and cons around both. My only gripe with HM though is that he should be utilising the both of them and giving them similar opportunites to play, even on a horses for courses rotation, for the greater good of the bokke and the confidence of the individuals. But unfortunately he clearly favours the one over the other and is throwing all his eggs into the one basket. If Pollard should be seriously injured in tonights game Lambie will be expected to fill in for the rest of the comp and perform miracles, yet he will be low on game time and possibly even confidence after the Japan game. This game against the USA was for me a perfect opportunity to allow him that, alongside FDP, before we move into the knockout stages.

  • Comment 271, posted at 07.10.15 08:18:59 by SharkED Reply

    SharkEDVodacom Cup player
     
  • @pastorshark (Comment 267) : I think yes Sharks fans can feel upset when their man isnt picked and mayb i am not allowing for some bias and instead looking or some perspective. Yes Pollard got a lot of chances in 2015, but let us not forget that Lambie hasnt played much rugby in 2015 due to a neck injury that from a very good source was close to ending his career. So was Meyer justified in probably being a bit cautious in playing Lambie- i think so. Is Meyer justified in all his decisions- definitely not. SA has 2 fantastic flyhalves, trust me neither 1 is going to be the reason we lose games irrespective who plays. Id love to see them both on the field. Some people are so fixated on a player playing in only his 1 preferred position. Id prefer to see the best players all on the field, bearing in mind combinations and attributes for certain positions. So my pref 9. Hougaard 10-Pollard,11- DeJong 12- Serfontein- 13- DeAllende, 14 – LeRoux, 15- Lambie. My reasons Hougaard is an intelligent rugby player and def x factor , Pollard takes the ball flat and has a good pass and with his size means defenders cant shift early, Serfontein is a quality player and will only get better and better within the new freedom allowed at the Bulls, DeAllende has pace and often beats a defender which in that 13 channel would mean a lot of tries. Why Leroux on the wing- the Bok backline has looked very dangerous when LERoux played wing and came looking for work and often popped up in the 10 channel. Why DeJong on the other wing- has pace and can beat a man 1v1. And Lambie at 15 as at the moment the Boks are not making good decisions out wide and letting a lot of tries go, Lambie’s vision and calmness will lead to a lot more tries being finished. The bench is where you can experiment a bit depending on opposition and climate etc.

  • Comment 272, posted at 07.10.15 08:25:26 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 272) : I will respond in two comments…the first where I disagree with you – and it’s only this: Of course many comments are biased and lack perspective…and it is perfectly ok to point that out to the people involved…just remember that people who lack said bias (grant10 maybe?) or people who still maintain perspective can reasonably come to a different conclusion than yours. So not every person who feels Lambie should be the preferred 10 is simply lacking perspective…

  • Comment 273, posted at 07.10.15 08:33:40 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 272) : I really like your comment though! I think the reasoning is very good…though I would still go with some different players to those you choose…but I agree with your points…

  • Comment 274, posted at 07.10.15 08:35:23 by pastorshark Reply
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  • :shock: Wasnt there an article on Robert du Preez coming to coache the Sharks. I dont see it anywhere.

  • Comment 275, posted at 07.10.15 08:47:55 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Jeremiser (Comment 270) : and that was me coming to this party very very late. good fun though, reading 150 comments to start my day and glad that Letgo and Sheldonk have made up:)
    looks like we have a Fighting Chance.

  • Comment 276, posted at 07.10.15 08:52:25 by Jeremiser Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 273) : No thats very fair and i do appreciate differing opinions. I just get annoyed when people make ridiculous comments with no justification that irritate me. By all means have your own good opinion, but dont belittle a guy or coach with nonsense like other sites.

  • Comment 277, posted at 07.10.15 09:03:16 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @pastorshark (Comment 274) : Yeh look there are numerous others i could have picked but its more the reasoning behind why those. So a quick 9 with a good pass, a 10/12 that can fix defenders and have a good pass. A 13 that can beat the first defender. And then a 15 or 13 making good decisions out wide to finish off the chances created.

  • Comment 278, posted at 07.10.15 09:05:24 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @pastorshark (Comment 267) : its about more than the loosies . believe me :twisted:

  • Comment 279, posted at 07.10.15 10:08:29 by Zibbie Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 279) : Haha…I know! I didn’t want to make my post THAT long… :mrgreen:

  • Comment 280, posted at 07.10.15 11:58:48 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 277) : You and me both…

  • Comment 281, posted at 07.10.15 12:00:41 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 278) : That’s the reasoning I liked… :lol:

  • Comment 282, posted at 07.10.15 12:01:33 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 275) : Do you mean this one? Or on another site?
    http://www.sharksworld.co.za/2015/09/28/du-preez-the-sharks-next-saviour/

  • Comment 283, posted at 07.10.15 12:03:46 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 282) : Its thats reasoning why id like to see Willie LeRoux and Mvovo as the Sharks wings next year with Pieterson at 15.

  • Comment 284, posted at 07.10.15 12:40:57 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 284) : I could definitely live with that!

  • Comment 285, posted at 07.10.15 12:48:28 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 284) : I thought you wanted Lambie at 15,hell you spent the whole day yesterday telling us that,now you drop him for Pieterson.

  • Comment 286, posted at 07.10.15 12:57:03 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 286) : Yes id prefer Lambie at 15 when there is a decent 10 in the team. Sharks dont have 1 so Lambie will have to play 10.

  • Comment 287, posted at 07.10.15 13:16:08 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @pastorshark (Comment 283) : Thanks, jeepers that thread is over a week old, I thought it first appeared this week. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 288, posted at 07.10.15 13:31:53 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • This is what triggers the end of the world, isn’t it? Humanity being bored to death by a too-oft-repeated flyhalf argument. My only hope is this particular argument is banned in the sweet hereafter.

  • Comment 289, posted at 07.10.15 14:49:56 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 280) : server space and all that :lol: ;-)

  • Comment 290, posted at 07.10.15 15:19:28 by Zibbie Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner
    ZibbieTeam captain
     
  • I see Butch James also rated Owen Farrel as the best flyhalf for England – so to those using his opinion as the deciding factor in determining the best flyhalf…well, think again. ;-)

    Anyways, no matter what we say….at least JW saw in Lambie what the rest of us saw – and he has a proven track record of discovering long term talent: Just ask both PdV and HM :twisted:

  • Comment 291, posted at 07.10.15 16:07:28 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 288) : Time flies when you’re having fun!

  • Comment 292, posted at 07.10.15 17:04:36 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 290) : :lol: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 293, posted at 07.10.15 17:05:00 by pastorshark Reply
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