Culling Song

Last Exit to Bronkhorstspruit Vol. 5: So Who’s the (Im)perfect 10?


Written by André Meyer (Culling Song)

Posted in :Original Content, Springboks on 5 Nov 2015 at 13:23
Tagged with : , , , , , ,

The World Cup is now but a memory, and (rather predictably, some might say), the Bokke have failed to scale the lofty heights that is generally expected of them. As is the norm, in the aftermath of the tournament there has been a deluge of articles (celebrating the magnificence of the All Blacks, bemoaning the decline of the Bokke, applauding the development of the Tier 2 nations, assessing the state of the game, and of course, revelling in England’s embarrassingly early exit), but these have been steadily tapering off, and now we, the fans are faced with the rugby doldrums; that dreary time between November and February when there are no games on the calendar, nothing to discuss, and we, the fans, are expected to get our fix from roundball, cricket and golf (ugh).

So, in a quest to ease the boredom, I’ve decided to devote a few words to a perennially favourite – and hotly debated – topic of discussion on the site, but one which has surprisingly not elicited any articles to date; Lambie vs. Pollard. Now I am well aware that this is a Sharks fan site, and the party line is that Lambie is the epitomy of class, whereas Pollard is the epitomy of arse (a line generally endorsed by myself, if I am honest), but I’ve tried to be a bit more objective in my assessment of the players. Not that I’m guaranteeing impartiality; one is generally blind to one’s own failings.

(Disclaimer: Given that the brand of rugby played by the Sharks and Boks of late has been like masturbating with a cheese grater – slightly amusing, but mostly, painful – I have actually watched very little rugby this year. The opinions expressed in this piece have been formed from little snippets of games, highlights packages, and reviews in printed and electronic media. So I don’t claim to be well-informed, merely opinionated. Fortunately, in modern society a lack of the former is no impediment to the latter. So if your name is Handré Pollard sr. (for example), and you take offence at what I’ve written here, just chill, and take it where it comes from. But I digress.)

Getting back to the players, it would seem that the view of the armchair analysts out there is that Pollard is a big, strong fly half who attacks the gain line with purpose, creating line breaks and hence, opportunities. He is seen as a strong defender, a competent goalkicker, but lacking polish as far as tactical kicking is concerned.

Lambie, on the other hand, is regarded as being less of a physical threat, and being more of an accomplished game manager and tactician, who distributes rather than attacking the line. Despite lacking in bulk, he is nonetheless a solid defender, as well as being accomplished at kicking at goal.

It is a common assertion that Lambie has failed to reproduce that “2010 Currie Cup final magic” in the Bok jersey thus far, and as such has not nailed down the Bok starting berth. On the flip side, Pollard’s showing in the 2014 game against the All Black at Ellis Park is help up as an example of what he is capable of producing at the highest level, hence his elevation to the preferred starting position.

Let’s for the sake of argument accept all of the aforementioned as being correct. To my mind, this still leads to a number of questions. Maybe Lambie has not exactly set the world alight in the Springbok number 10 jersey, but conversely, he has also infrequently, if ever, produced a genuinely poor showing. He is peerless in his ability to remain calm under pressure, and can generally be counted on to execute the basic of his position well. I know that many will claim that this is not good enough at this level, but I’m not entirely sure I agree. To my mind, Butch James was one of the unsung heroes of the 2007 World Cup-winning team, and he did nothing flashy; he simply executed the basics near-flawlessly, and coupled it with good decision making as to when to exercise specific options.

While I’m in agreement that Pollard has been more effective in attack, I’d also be interested to see how many of his line breaks have translated into any sort of meaningful advantage for the team. Furthermore, I’d like to contrast this with how many times his poor game management has resulted in his team being under pressure, or conceding points. Sure, he has potential, but he is still badly lacking in polish.

Much as I enjoy denigrating Pollard, that’s not really the point though. The thing that really boggles my mind is why our esteemed Bok coach is so fixated on selecting an attacking flyhalf, when everyone knows Heyneke employs only three game plans; 9-man rugby plan A (7 forwards secure the ball, scrumhalf passes to Schalk Burger standing at first receiver, who then duly runs into nearest available defender), 9-man rugby Plan B (forwards secure the ball, scrumhalf kicks it away), and 11-man rugby (forwards secure ball, scrumhalf passes to flyhalf, flyhalf passes to inside centre, who then tucks the ball under his arm and performs his best Schalk Burger impersonation by running into nearest available defender)? Surely, given the complete lack of innovation and support play in the Bok backline, a composed game manager would make more sense?

Notwithstanding the above, the fact is that for the first time in many years the Boks are fortunate to have two talented flyhalves at their disposal. Given the differing skill sets on offer, one would be inclined to believe that there should be ample opportunity to utilise both to great effect. Sadly though, our Bok coach with his towering, single-figure rugby intellect has already anointed Handré as being Jesus, James Dean and Elvis all rolled into one, and will continue nailing his colours to the Pollard mast until his contract is mercifully terminated. And until such time, the debate as to who the better of the flyhalves is will remain a frustratingly moot point.



148 Comments

  • Well I for one saw a brief glimpse of what brand the boks can play under HM in the two matches vs. the AB’s and Wallabies during the home leg of the RC. That was power and pace, in a nice blend. Why the wheels came off after that I have no idea. I do believe that the perception that HM is only a bash and smash proponent is incorrect. If that was the case, why does he not only allow, but encourage Le roux to play it as he sees it. I also recall him asking Lambie to play flatter. So hence, his inclination is to want to play an attacking brand.

    How much of the smash and bash comes from our top Super rugby sides, given that the bok coach, get’s a limited time to spend with the players as a squad. The Bulls, Sharks, and Stormers all played a similar kick and chase game plan over the last number of years. The Stormers at one stage were as exciting as watching grass grow in the Namib!

    So how much of the playing mantra is ingrained in the players at franchise level.

    The Bulls under HM, actually scored a number of tries, but the game plan was largely dependant on forward dominance. A principle that hasn’t changed.

    My opinion only.

  • Comment 1, posted at 05.11.15 13:39:02 by KingCheetah Reply
    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • Brilliantly written – and even a few well disgised brilliant insights !!! Enjoyed this – loooong hail the off-season …..if this article becomes the norm ;-)

  • Comment 2, posted at 05.11.15 13:44:53 by The Brand Reply
    Currie Cup player
     
  • @KingCheetah (Comment 1) : I would urge you to refrain from attempting to temper my dislike of HM through the use of logic, well-structured arguments or common sense; that way only sorrow lies. As I said, opinionated, not necessarily well-informed….

  • Comment 3, posted at 05.11.15 13:48:18 by Culling Song Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Culling SongTeam captain
     
  • haha not sure you debated much in your article other than just repeat what those on this blog say and that is Lambie is the best no argument and he is getting a raw deal. I think SA is lucky to have 2 quality flyhalves who are actually pretty similar although playing differently of late. Both guys have the ability to take the ball to the line and both have good footwork and passes. They are both decent defenders. Goal kicking i think they are on a par. Lambie probably has more game management experience pretty much as he is older and has played more games. I think both havnt been paired with the best 9s and 12s and allowed to play it as the see it. Going forward im hoping both guys stay fit, continue to take the ball to the line and release the options around them. Who ever coaches will favour 1 guy over the other as its what he prefers and thats just life, not everyone thinks the same. Im just glad we have 2 young quality guys going forward that will put pressure on all the other 10s coming through

  • Comment 4, posted at 05.11.15 13:56:15 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • If only Supersport had the same quality writers that we have here. Nice one, Culling Song!

  • Comment 5, posted at 05.11.15 14:01:46 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 4) : You’ve seen through me, there’s no actual debate here. So the short version of the article is as follows:

    In my opinion:
    a) we have two talented flyhalves
    b) Lambie is the better of the two
    c) Heyneke Meyer is an ass hat

  • Comment 6, posted at 05.11.15 14:08:20 by Culling Song Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Culling SongTeam captain
     
  • When describing Lambie, apart from the solid defender, you might as well have described Morne Steyn. He was also crucified for not attacking the gainline enough. Only Steyn has experience. Just saying.

  • Comment 7, posted at 05.11.15 14:16:32 by Blue Centurion Reply

    Blue CenturionCurrie Cup player
     
  • @KingCheetah (Comment 1) : I think the gameplan changed the moment we lost to Japan trying to play running rugby. Also we failed at running rugby against the AB’s,Australia and Argentina so HM reverted back to the what he was comfortable with.

    @Culling Song (Comment 6) : Where do you get time to write articles?

  • Comment 8, posted at 05.11.15 14:17:45 by Pokkel Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Author
    Assistant coach
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 3) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 9, posted at 05.11.15 14:20:08 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @Blue Centurion (Comment 7) : I will refer you back to my comment 3

  • Comment 10, posted at 05.11.15 14:20:45 by Culling Song Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Culling SongTeam captain
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 8) : I’m multitasking

  • Comment 11, posted at 05.11.15 14:21:14 by Culling Song Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Culling SongTeam captain
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 6) : haha an ass hat… :) Something interesting to consider…Pollard wasnt in matric the last RWC in 2011…so is assuming these will be the only 2 contenders in 2019 possibly a bit off the mark?

  • Comment 12, posted at 05.11.15 14:42:44 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 6) : disagree with a but agree with b and c, the best 10 which showed week in week out during SR and he can play the best attacking rugby was left home alone which just goes to show the nonsense that is Bok rugby and the cult of the Bambie knows no end on this site but also the same for the hero worship Huge Mistake has for HP

  • Comment 13, posted at 05.11.15 15:02:18 by benji Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Team captain
     
  • @KingCheetah (Comment 1) : O yea we lost those games didn’t we?

  • Comment 14, posted at 05.11.15 15:16:38 by Seth101 Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    NostrasethTeam captain
     
  • @Seth101 (Comment 14) : We did yes. However before Meyer emptied his benches, we were very dominant in both matches. I am not looking at the result, as much as the way the boks played in those 70 odd minutes in each match. However you may do so, as it suits your purpose seemingly.

  • Comment 15, posted at 05.11.15 15:34:13 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 3) : that’s the way we like it!!!!!!! :twisted:

  • Comment 16, posted at 05.11.15 15:44:34 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @Seth101 (Comment 14) : ja boet gymnastics is were you get points and win with style in rugby you must score points to beat your opposition!!!!!!!!!

  • Comment 17, posted at 05.11.15 15:46:33 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @KingCheetah (Comment 15) : sorry to say but the score after 60-70 min is not what is used to determine the winner!!!!!!! If you lose 10 matches by 1 point no matter how good you looked you still lost 10 matches. Time to start winning those close games!!!!!!!!!

  • Comment 18, posted at 05.11.15 15:49:21 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @benji (Comment 13) : you talking about Elton?

  • Comment 19, posted at 05.11.15 15:53:06 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @KingCheetah (Comment 15) : Performance vs results is a tricky one with the Boks. If you look at the result- the Boks won more games playing traditional boring rugby and lost more games trying to play expansive rugby. I may be wrong here as thinking off the top of my head but i dont think 1 SA super rugby side has won the comp during Meyer’s 4yrs to date. The last side to win was the Bulls playing ‘that style’ of rugby. So question has to be asked…was a 3rd place in this RWC exactly what we deserved and nothing better?

  • Comment 20, posted at 05.11.15 16:05:26 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 11) : Impossible, lol Woman multitask :o

    By the way you related to HM, so Mr Meyer why you giving HM shyte :mrgreen: :lol:

  • Comment 21, posted at 05.11.15 16:56:24 by sharks_lover Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    sharks_loverAssistant coach
     
  • @sharks_lover (Comment 21) : HM is denigrating my family name. I cannot stand idly by.

  • Comment 22, posted at 05.11.15 17:34:25 by Culling Song Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Culling SongTeam captain
     
  • God, I love the LEtB series! Why make us wait so long between installments CS? Are you related to George RR Martin by any chance?

  • Comment 23, posted at 05.11.15 17:34:41 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    vanmartinAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 19) : yes

  • Comment 24, posted at 05.11.15 18:17:46 by benji Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Team captain
     
  • @JD (Comment 18) : I do agree. My point was that the boks are able to play that game plan, and do so effectively. It’s just a pity that HM emptied his bench, and then subsequently went back to his tried and trusted. I did say, in those matches we saw a glimpse of what can be achieved. I didn’t say that the result was acceptable.

    my feeling at the time was. Ok, if this is where we are heading I like it. Thought at the time, that HM’s focus was less on closing out those matches, and more on giving his fringe players game time. No I am at a loss.

  • Comment 25, posted at 05.11.15 18:53:59 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 20) : That said the Bulls put the Reds and Chiefs to the sword in grand style, playing “that style” of rugby. In both instances, they really ran the opposition to shreds.

  • Comment 26, posted at 05.11.15 18:55:19 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 23) : I don’t hold with George R R Martin’s unseemly haste; I prefer to work at a more dignified, Harper Lee-esque pace

  • Comment 27, posted at 05.11.15 19:00:42 by Culling Song Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Culling SongTeam captain
     
  • @KingCheetah (Comment 25) : almost looks as if he decide before the game when players will be substituted and then stick to it no matter what happens during the game.
    My problem is HM seems not to build up to something all the big games they’re close but manage to lose!

  • Comment 28, posted at 05.11.15 19:09:35 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 27) : that means you wrote all the articles in reverse order about 80 years ago and are only now getting around to publishing the first ones….

  • Comment 29, posted at 05.11.15 19:45:30 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 29) : Yup! And your point being…?

  • Comment 30, posted at 05.11.15 19:52:52 by Culling Song Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Culling SongTeam captain
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 22) : :lol:

  • Comment 31, posted at 05.11.15 20:20:46 by sharks_lover Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    sharks_loverAssistant coach
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 30) : you aren’t Harper Lee, because they’re getting better

  • Comment 32, posted at 05.11.15 21:37:17 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • My opinion is that Lambie is better. But it’s because I admire the kind of game where a team can change strategy and tactic to match the conditions and competetion. I don’t say Pollard will never get there but I think as long as the popular line “he attacks the gain line and is big” is being used he will never be expected to develop his other skill sets. And for me the size and attacking the gain line is a flimsy edge to have on others. The most successful flyhalfs in the world today are not really big guys in fact they are mostly the same size as Lambie. Pat can attack the gain line and was quite good at it. He just needs to be coached back into using that skill again. Pollard on the other hand has an over relyance on the size factor and ends up being a soloist and his tactical skills drop. Coaching will make the difference between the two. If we had an unbiased coach and a decent backline and kicking coach we could have ended up with better growth for both but these guys also need proper coaching at provincial level. So whoever gets the better coach will probably end on top.

  • Comment 33, posted at 06.11.15 07:06:00 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 33) : We always complain about modern game and that crash Rugby is no longer a game winner but still insist yhe biggest flyhalf makes a difference? Then why does new Zealand Australia and Co keep handing us our asses with their small flyhalfs? We want the modern game but still believe bigger is better why? if not for the physical crash aspect?

  • Comment 34, posted at 06.11.15 07:53:49 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 33) : Running into the opposition time after time could be considered attacking the gain line, but is highly ineffective as Pollard has shown. Go look at the Samoa match, the last try by Pietersen, Lambie attacked the gain line, but at an angle, into space, and made a beautiful pass to JPP to score. Now that one time attacking the gain line was 100% more effective than the countless times Pollard had attacked the gain line throughout the match.

  • Comment 35, posted at 06.11.15 08:13:20 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • I would argue that Lambie has a much better tactical kicking game, is equal defensively, but is also far more effective attacking the gain line than Pollard. Just because he does not do it time after time after time, does not take away from his effectiveness. Lambie also has quicker hands, and I don’t think that I have ever seen Pollard even attempt a no-look pass, he won’t even look to make contact in a way he can effectively offload, he just runs into people. And if the defence makes a mistake, then Pollard is a genius.

  • Comment 36, posted at 06.11.15 08:17:55 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 36) : I disagree. Lambie’s defense is better than Pollard’s in my opinion.

  • Comment 37, posted at 06.11.15 08:23:15 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 37) : Thanks Nephew, pick on the one thing you disagree with, no Uncle you’re right about everything…….. :mrgreen: ;-)

  • Comment 38, posted at 06.11.15 08:25:52 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 35) : @Dancing Bear (Comment 36) : I think I need to withdraw the article and have you rewrite it!

    Of course, it goes without saying that we are hundred percent in agreement. It doesn’t change the fact that Heyneke Meyer is an ass hat though. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 39, posted at 06.11.15 08:27:11 by Culling Song Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Culling SongTeam captain
     
  • @Ben (Comment 37) : besides, aren’t we really talking about attacking the gainline??? :lol:

  • Comment 40, posted at 06.11.15 08:28:38 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 39) : While it would be factual and accurate, I doubt anyone would read it, I could never match the entertainment value along with the accuracy of your article. And yes, he does indeed remain an ass hat. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 41, posted at 06.11.15 08:31:20 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 39) : I mean I have never even been to Bronkhortspruit! :mrgreen: I’m pretty sure I can find it on a map though…….I think….

  • Comment 42, posted at 06.11.15 08:32:46 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • I hope Lambie stays fit this season. Firstly, I don’t trust our backups Joe Petersen can be good, but I think his inexperience at 10 also makes him inconsistent.

    And secondly, I think a full season will do a lot for Lambie ‘s game. He’s was injured for most of 2013/ 2014 SR seasons. I also think a full season will do a lot in showing the doubters what the rest of us already know.

  • Comment 43, posted at 06.11.15 08:33:49 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    LetgoAssistant coach
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 34) : thing it might be the henry honiball effect.they’re looking for a strong defender at flyhalf and someone ‘big’ enough to attack the gainline with from 10.but henry honiball wasnt really ‘big’,1.90m ±90kg .

  • Comment 44, posted at 06.11.15 08:34:56 by 50shadesofshark Reply

    Team captain
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 35) : On a related tangent, everyone’s been raving about Schalk Burger; 26 carries made, 56m gained in one game…. Is it just me, or is that hust a reflection of our moronic obsession with physical dominance!? All it says is that most of the carries barely made it across the advantage line, so effectively we are praising him for ceaselessly battering the opposition (and by implication, himself). Bravo!

  • Comment 45, posted at 06.11.15 08:36:47 by Culling Song Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Culling SongTeam captain
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 42) : Just set your instruments to detect the single biggest concentration of inbred, conservative racists in South Africa, and voila! Bronkhorstspruit!

  • Comment 46, posted at 06.11.15 08:38:41 by Culling Song Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Culling SongTeam captain
     
  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 44) : When thinking back to the past, I believe a lot of people conflate being a very physical player with being big. Honiball was probably one of the most “physical” 10s to play the game, in that way he played like a much larger sized player. I don’t think size is a factor attacking the gain line, rather vision, reading the game and knowing when is the right time to attack the gain line, AND then to do it in a way you don’t just kill the ball when you get tackled, figure out how to keep the flow going. In the try I mentioned above, Lambie had a very good chance of scoring himself, but he made the pass to a wide open JPP who trotted in with no contact. Pollard would have held onto the ball no matter what, and may have scored, but would have ignored JPP who had a 100% chance of scoring after catching the ball.

  • Comment 47, posted at 06.11.15 08:40:55 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 43) :lambie has been injured quite a bit during superrugby.hope he stays injury-free next season.but perhaps looking at a flyhalf back-up could be smart.finding one will be tough,i suppose.lets bracket joe pietersen in there (not sure about his defence at 10,and we are playing the nz teams).imo recruitment (and therefore money to spend) in the tight 5 still is priority.

  • Comment 48, posted at 06.11.15 08:41:10 by 50shadesofshark Reply

    Team captain
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 45) : I would argue that since Schalk Burger is 1,9 odd metres tall, and the average carry was just on 2 metres, that he actually NEVER crossed the gain line, he got tackled on the gainline and FELL forward! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 49, posted at 06.11.15 08:42:59 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • @KingCheetah (Comment 26) : Yes they did but they only ran them ragged once they had obtained dominance up front and those teams forwards were so buggered they couldnt cover the gaps. That Bulls side was also extremely fit. As they say there is more than 1 way to skin a cat

  • Comment 50, posted at 06.11.15 08:43:24 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 35) : Yup I agree and attacking the gain line does also not just require you doing it ball on hand well placed tactical kicks are also attacking the line. I do feel the solo physical attack is overrated.

  • Comment 51, posted at 06.11.15 08:50:04 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • I think people are getting a bit mixed up with the terminology. There is a difference between taking the ball to the line/attacking the gainline and running crashball. I good flyhalf with take the ball up to the defensive line in order to fix the defenders and then look to distribute and play the runners off him. This is why i say both Lambie and Pollard havnt been paired with the ideal 9 and 12. DeAllende is a good player BUT at this RWC he always wanted the ball deep and then would always run a cut back line with the ball tucked under his arm and tried to fend off guys. So Pollard taking the ball to the line and trying to distribute had no effect and the ball either just went deep to DeAllende or there was no support so he took it into contact. This was on the few times he actually got the ball and not a loose forward. Lambie playing deeper is consequence of playing a lot with Reinach who runs a lot from the base so Lambie has to play deeper so that when/if Reinach passes he then has time to evaluate options. His playing deeper is also a consequence of him developing his kicking game and is possibly a bit more reliant on that now. So the fix- get the ball cleared early from the ruck to the 10. Get the loosies on his inside not outside. Get the 10s taking the ball to the line with either the 12 or 13 run a short line with the other a deeper line so ball can go out wide. Its not hard- my u15s can do it.

  • Comment 52, posted at 06.11.15 08:51:28 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 45) : I know this is over technical, but most humorous things are…..so if Schalk gets tacked on the gainline and falls forward and drops that ball, is that a 2 metre carry and a knockon or just a knockon? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 53, posted at 06.11.15 08:51:39 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • At inside centre it will be interesting to see what becomes of daniel du plessis down in the cape.he is competing with de allende.and didnt get a look into the wp cc team this season.same goes for ew viljoen at outside centre (made name for himself as a fullback at grey bfn).
    There are quality young players around who are sitting behind the incumbent stars but who might just need sufficient game time to realise their potential.there are some quality youngsters in the sharks u21 team also.recruitment just needs to be smart.which is why i feel the sharks missed out on not get jc janse van rensburg.you need that kind of experience and leadership especially now in the sharks current tight 5.

  • Comment 54, posted at 06.11.15 08:52:05 by 50shadesofshark Reply

    Team captain
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 51) : You are being kind ;-) I would not say it is over-rated but rather completely ineffective. If Pollard had a super offload, it would be one thing, but then he would be more effective at 12 :lol: Butch James was big and physical, but if you watch his game carefully, he was very physical defensively, but when he attacked the gainline, it was into space, at an angle, and always ready to make the pass to set his line away. Butch James did not attack the gainline like Pollard does.

  • Comment 55, posted at 06.11.15 08:55:42 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 43) : That is true. But without Joe, the Sharks wouldn’t have even gotten close to where they ended in the CC. He is a more than useful backup. At least you know what you have in him. Bosch and Inny are still untested beyond junior level.

  • Comment 56, posted at 06.11.15 08:59:28 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 52) : Right and Pollard does nothing but crashball, he either just shovels on the ball to the next player or runs straight into the opposition to setup a new phase. I know everyone was complaining about Schalk at first receiver, well, if your first receiver is going to just run into the opposition, then I would rather have Schalk do that than Pollard. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 57, posted at 06.11.15 08:59:29 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 45) : Well it wasn’t HM that chose Schalk in the Dream team, so other people other than the moronic coach rated Schalk’s value.

  • Comment 58, posted at 06.11.15 09:00:57 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @KingCheetah (Comment 58) : That’s because Schalk is a better flyhalf than Pollard! :lol: ;-) :mrgreen: :twisted: when it comes to playing the moronic coach’s moronic gameplan.

  • Comment 59, posted at 06.11.15 09:02:29 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • @KingCheetah (Comment 58) : Surely you must be familier with Culling Song and his…….humour?? ;-)

  • Comment 60, posted at 06.11.15 09:04:11 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 57) : Funny I saw him deliver some neat delayed passes that resulted in players scoring great tries. The Jesse Kriel try vs. the USA was as an example. You are trying to paint Pollard as simply a bash flyhallf, with no skill at all. As Sheldonk has posted. Both players have the potential to be good flyhalves, and we are lucky to have so many young flyhalves competing.

  • Comment 61, posted at 06.11.15 09:07:56 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 57) : Might be good for Pollard to spend some time at center to get that aspect of his game sorted. Even Lambie would benefit from playing centre a bit to get back his running confidence. It’s a constant balancing act and being a “complete” flyhalf means constantly sharpening both running and kicking.

  • Comment 62, posted at 06.11.15 09:12:44 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @KingCheetah (Comment 61) : I’m sorry, but in all seriousness, I can not look at anything that happened in the USA match as a representation of what someone is capable of in international rugby. They were so unfit and absolutely capitulated in that match. It was sad to see any forward pack establish that kind of dominance of any international opposition. People were even praising Morne Steyn after than match.

  • Comment 63, posted at 06.11.15 09:13:14 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • @KingCheetah (Comment 61) : Its very easy to pick 1 thing a guy does and highlight it to no end. Trust me its not the guy playing at 10 that will cost the Boks games. We have 2 quality 10s…if the rest we need to sort out

  • Comment 64, posted at 06.11.15 09:14:51 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 62) : I disagree in the sense I think Lambie needs an extended, injury free fun at 10. It has been difficult for him to settle for a couple of years now and we all know that when he feels comfortable and relaxed, he makes things happen in a sublime way.

  • Comment 65, posted at 06.11.15 09:15:25 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 65) : i would agree with that. But it also wont help him much if all he does is receive the ball after reinach has a run and then just pops it to Esterhuizen who bashes it up. That wont improve his skills much as a 10.

  • Comment 66, posted at 06.11.15 09:17:41 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 66) : My most sincere hope for this upcoming year, is that Robert du Preez will not stand for that and will instill a playing structure that will ultimately benefit Lambie (and Reinach if he listens).

  • Comment 67, posted at 06.11.15 09:21:23 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 66) : I just had a good laugh at my avatar above yours, your’s needs a head! :mrgreen: :lol:

  • Comment 68, posted at 06.11.15 09:22:55 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 67) : Indeed. And its not like its a massive change thats needed. Backline run from deep at angles….have a short and a deep option with a forward option on the inside. If you have those options and a guy like Lambie making the decisions about which one to play then we in business. Thats assuming the guy actually catches the ball when Lambie passes it…but baby steps haha

  • Comment 69, posted at 06.11.15 09:24:58 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 68) : Its all about combinations…

  • Comment 70, posted at 06.11.15 09:25:26 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 69) : :lol: exactly, and a few successful times with that, and the cross kick will actually be incredibly effective :mrgreen:

  • Comment 71, posted at 06.11.15 09:27:48 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 69) : With those structures in place, it will also be interesting to see le Roux at first receiver when Lambie is not available for a phase. I have always felt he is most effective from that position in later phases, and once the opposition is looking for the offloads you describe, le Roux’s little pop kicks over the top become that much more effective.

  • Comment 72, posted at 06.11.15 09:31:25 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 71) : Yeh not a fan of the cross kick hey…should very much be the exception not the norm. @Dancing Bear (Comment 72) : LeRoux is very effective coming in at first receiver from broken play after a couple phases. my concern is that if he is doing it from 15 we may lack someone covering at the back. Reinach is not a good covering defender and the 8th men that have played of late arent the best at dropping back to cover either- altho i think Vd Der Walt is prob the best at it. Id ove to see LeRoux back on the wing where he was first spotted and made a massive impact. If you can play the safe route of Pieterson at 15 with Mvovo and LeRoux on the wing or a bit more adventurous with Mvovo at 15 with LeRoux and Sithole on the wings

  • Comment 73, posted at 06.11.15 09:37:46 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 73) : Last post for a while, but I think that with le Roux at 15, Mvovo and JPP as wings, one of your wings can cover at the back, whichever one is not directly involved in the play? Just a thought.

  • Comment 74, posted at 06.11.15 09:41:06 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 74) : Or Lambie covering back in those instances.

  • Comment 75, posted at 06.11.15 09:43:14 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 74) : @Dancing Bear (Comment 75) : A wing can cover but ideally you want 3 at the back always so the guy receiving the kick has options and isnt isolated. I assumed Lambie would be caught up in a ruck etc when LeRoux takes as first receiver hence wouldnt be able to cover. But if not then yes he could

  • Comment 76, posted at 06.11.15 09:47:08 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 74) : coming to this late, but from what I’ve seen, JP has turned into a very capable “stand in fullback” and is probably the right guy to take over the role when Willie goes attacking from first receiver.

  • Comment 77, posted at 06.11.15 10:06:36 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 77) : Didnt JP play his first game for the Boks at 15?

  • Comment 78, posted at 06.11.15 10:16:43 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 65) : Only if he has a coach that will get him back to what his natural game was and pair him with the correct sh to achieve this. I hear the comments about honeyball but I would rather have Pat be a Matt Giteau hybrid. Dangerous sniper but also an educated tactical boot like carter. Then we can get the most out of our centers too. Remember how Giteau and Mortlocke paired? They were a terror.

  • Comment 79, posted at 06.11.15 10:21:12 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 78) : I think you’re right, I can’t recall from memory but do remember reading that somewhere

  • Comment 80, posted at 06.11.15 10:24:12 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    vanmartinAssistant coach
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 80) : In my memory im sure he played 15 vs Australia in his 1st test. Mayb JP at 15 will see him a bit more awake for the Sharks?

  • Comment 81, posted at 06.11.15 10:27:44 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 81) : He was the planned successor to Percy. Then Frans Steyn happened.

  • Comment 82, posted at 06.11.15 10:44:42 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    vanmartinAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 81) : Yes he did start out at FB. I would much rather have him there than 13 to be honest.

  • Comment 83, posted at 06.11.15 10:45:11 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli BoelieTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 77) : Then we must have JP on wing not center.

  • Comment 84, posted at 06.11.15 10:49:39 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • Look at Ma’a Nonu to see the benefits of playing next to a 10 that takes the ball to the line and delays his passes. Nonu breaks the line way more than Dan, Cruden and Barrett does. I measure these 10′s by how good the players around them tends to look when they are playing. I suppose the flip-side is also true, although when Nonu played at the blues with flyhalves of lesser class, he was unable to make those flyhalves look good, in fact, he has his worse seasons with the Blues.

  • Comment 85, posted at 06.11.15 11:03:55 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    LetgoAssistant coach
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 83) : That is true.

  • Comment 86, posted at 06.11.15 11:13:55 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 73) : “Id ove to see LeRoux back on the wing where he was first spotted and made a massive impact.”

    Spotted by who? The first time I saw him play was for Boland and he was playing flyhalf. It was a warm up game against the Stormers (I think) and he was very impressive. I disagree with you. I think he should be closer to the play, not on the wing.

  • Comment 87, posted at 06.11.15 11:31:49 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 87) : When i say spotted i meant where he first made the biggest impact prior to making the Boks. It was on the wing. He took the ball at first or second receiver and came off his wing and wreaked havoc. At 15 he is very predictable bringing the ball back from a kick and more often than not now just kicks it. His clearing kicks from fb are also not very long which is what put the Boks under massive pressure against NZ as DuPreez also had an off kicking day

  • Comment 88, posted at 06.11.15 11:44:06 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 85) : must say I think Nonu is the best 12 in the world!!!!! He really stepped up since the arrival of SBW to show just how good he really is!!!!!!

  • Comment 89, posted at 06.11.15 11:44:07 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 89) : Agreed but its taken him time to evolve his game. His passing and kicking game is a lot better now which has now made his running that more effective as defenders are now unsure what he is going to do and with that extra second he is through the gap and gone

  • Comment 90, posted at 06.11.15 11:46:13 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 88) : “At 15 he is very predictable bringing the ball back from a kick and more often than not now just kicks it.”

    You can thank Heyneke Meyer for that.

  • Comment 91, posted at 06.11.15 11:46:13 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 91) : Im not sure about that hey. Under HM he also attacks and puts in chips kicks and runs etc. Defensive lines are geneally pretty good off a long kick these days so when he is met with a good line he does just kick as he doesnt havnt the strength to break a tackle like Ben Smith

  • Comment 92, posted at 06.11.15 11:48:13 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 88) : He doesn’t have the gas to be a great winger. He’s a play maker, not a finisher. These qualities are better utilized from fullback. Not from the wing.

  • Comment 93, posted at 06.11.15 11:48:42 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 92) : He’s most dangerous when he comes in at first receiver. Only first receivers we had in the world cup were Schalk and Pollard. Meyer didn’t really allow him to ‘express’ himself on the field.

  • Comment 94, posted at 06.11.15 11:50:31 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 93) : If he isnt quick enough for wing he isnt quick enough for 15. Yes he is a good fullback. I just think he offers something different on the wing. He will prob only be played at 15 for the Sharks though.

  • Comment 95, posted at 06.11.15 11:54:50 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 95) : “If he isnt quick enough for wing he isnt quick enough for 15.”

    How did you come to this conclusion?

  • Comment 96, posted at 06.11.15 11:56:47 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 77) : @vanmartin (Comment 80) : @Uli Boelie (Comment 83) : @coolfusion (Comment 84) : met him in the Sharkcage when he was a fresh faced (unknown) 19 year old. He played Fullback but shifted to wing because Sharks had Percy at 15 and as they say the rest is history!!!!!!

  • Comment 97, posted at 06.11.15 11:57:30 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 96) : Based on the wings and fb attack from the same space and fb needs to cover more space on defense. If he is quick enough to get through the gap from 15 he can do the same from the wing. At wing he will have more freedom to roam, where as at 15 he needs to be a lot more disciplined in terms of positioning. Not saying he is a bad fb, just that the Sharks/Boks need something different…hence him on the wing

  • Comment 98, posted at 06.11.15 12:03:57 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 98) : Willie accelerates quickly, but he isn’t fast over a longer distance. This is why he is more suited to playing closer to the ball. I’m not saying he’s slow, just saying he doesn’t have the ‘top end’ speed to play on the wing.

  • Comment 99, posted at 06.11.15 12:08:20 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 99) : But playing 15 isnt exactly playing closer to the ball? He is more likely to do that coming off the wing than from 15, especially off 1st phase ball.

  • Comment 100, posted at 06.11.15 12:13:23 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 100) : As i said he will prob play 15 for the Sharks the vast majority. I just think for the Sharks to really compete in 2016 they need to offer something different to the norm. So play LeRoux and Esterhuizen on the wings. Play Mvovo at 15. Play Jordaan and Sithole in the centres. Just something different to a big 12 to bash it up and swing it wide and hope our quick guys are quicker than theirs

  • Comment 101, posted at 06.11.15 12:17:42 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 101) : I don’t agree with that, but maybe you can give your uncle a call and ask him to make it happen. ;)

  • Comment 102, posted at 06.11.15 12:38:46 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 101) : Do you mean play Jordaan and Sithole together? One at 12 and the other at 13?

  • Comment 103, posted at 06.11.15 12:40:09 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 102) : Do you think the Sharks need to have the stock standard team setup but just do better then? @Ben (Comment 103) : And yes at 12 and 13

  • Comment 104, posted at 06.11.15 12:41:42 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 104) : I do think that 13 is Sithole’s best position. Been saying this for a long time. So if you want him to play there then we’re in agreement on that.

  • Comment 105, posted at 06.11.15 12:43:19 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 104) : And I do feel that Heimar is a better option at 12 than Esterhuizen.

  • Comment 106, posted at 06.11.15 12:44:49 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 105) : If it means he stops sulking on the wing then yes play him there. With Lambie at 10 we have all said he is a good decision maker..so lets give him options to play not just a big basher at 12. And for those that argue Jordaan and Sithole are not good defenders- well every backline player needs to defend on a rugby field so if they weak then they shouldnt be in the team. At that level their no excuse for a poor defender.

  • Comment 107, posted at 06.11.15 12:47:32 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 104) : “Do you think the Sharks need to have the stock standard team setup but just do better then?”

    Basically what I want is a proper coaching team that will get the players to play to the best of their potential.

  • Comment 108, posted at 06.11.15 12:47:53 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 107) : Who would you have at 12, Sithole or Jordaan?

  • Comment 109, posted at 06.11.15 12:49:06 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 106) : I do like Heimar at 12…but coaches dont seem to favour him…well the coaches the Sharks have had anyway. I think he offers a lot and our backline looked good the game or 2 he played at start of the year

  • Comment 110, posted at 06.11.15 12:49:16 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • I think we need a dedicated thread on this

  • Comment 111, posted at 06.11.15 12:50:35 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 110) : Tim Whitehead is a very underrated 12. Why did we let him go?

  • Comment 112, posted at 06.11.15 12:51:15 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 108) : Playing to potential is 1 thing. But unlocking defenses is very different. Players can be playing as well as they can but still cant unlock a defense as they are predictable. @Ben (Comment 109) : I dont think it really matters. Convention says Jordaan at 12 where he played at school with Sithole at 13. But its really just a number of their back and where they receive the ball on attack and the channel they defend

  • Comment 113, posted at 06.11.15 12:51:38 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 113) : Well, if a player is playing to his full potential and is still useless, then I think it’s fairly obvious that he should be let go. The players haven’t played anywhere close to their full potential of late in my opinion.

  • Comment 114, posted at 06.11.15 12:54:27 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 112) : Whithead- a player with good hands but is prob a bit slow. If he wanted to realise his potential he should hav moved to 10. I just think the coaching staff wanted a more explosive player in the centres.

  • Comment 115, posted at 06.11.15 12:54:50 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 115) : Who was head coach when he was let go? Was it Jake?

  • Comment 116, posted at 06.11.15 12:58:00 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 114) : There is a subtle difference between playing well and a team having a good attacking structure. A player can play well in a bad attacking structure yet the team doesnt get the rewards. Likewise a player can play badly in a good attacking structure. I know its splitting hairs perhaps. What im trying to say is that in order to unlock some pretty good defenses we need to think a little out the box and deploy guys in areas of the field where can exploit their good traits. Taking Esterhuizen as an example- he is a big strong and fairly quick runner…so yes he ca play well at 12. But if he plays on the wing and hits the line hard on an inside pass from Lambie that could prob be more effective than him running onto a pop pass from Lambie from 12. Not sure if im conveying my thoughts correctly here haha

  • Comment 117, posted at 06.11.15 12:59:44 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 111) : :?:

  • Comment 118, posted at 06.11.15 13:00:09 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • Amen, good article.

  • Comment 119, posted at 06.11.15 13:03:51 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 116) : ooh now im not sure. Could be White but have a feeling it was before him.

  • Comment 120, posted at 06.11.15 13:04:51 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 117) : Just like I said a player should be let go if he isn’t good enough when he is already playing to his full potential, the same goes for a coach if the coach has a bunch of talented players and can’t get them to gel. This is fairly obvious when you look at what Jake and Gary achieved with pretty much the same squad.

  • Comment 121, posted at 06.11.15 13:13:38 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 120) : @Ben (Comment 116) : Did some research, it was Jake.

  • Comment 122, posted at 06.11.15 13:17:26 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 121) : hmm look this could lead to a long debate but White played a very disciplined and ‘boring’ game with the players he had and it was effective. Gold tried to play more running rugby with the same guys and it definitely didnt work and looked horrible. So should Gold have used the same White game plan with those same players…or should he have rather picked other players to play his supposed running rugby? Dont want to get into a huge debate on coaching just that some players do better in a certain game plan but not necessarily are good at doing something different.

  • Comment 123, posted at 06.11.15 13:26:19 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 122) : Did Frans Steyn not come back around that same time then?

  • Comment 124, posted at 06.11.15 13:27:23 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • Awesome piece Culling Song. I’m grinning all the way.

  • Comment 125, posted at 06.11.15 13:36:52 by JarsonX Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition WinnerCompetition Winner
    JarsonXAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 123) : I feel that Jake White focused more on the basics and was planning to develop his gameplan further once the players mastered the basics in his eyes. With Gary at the helm the basics just flew out of the window week after week. Getting worse week by week as Jake’s effect on the team started to wear off.

  • Comment 126, posted at 06.11.15 13:39:22 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 101) : or just play Heimar at 12 with either Jordaan or Sithole next to him!!!!!!

  • Comment 127, posted at 06.11.15 13:42:08 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 124) : Come back from France? He came back in 2012.

  • Comment 128, posted at 06.11.15 13:42:49 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 127) : That works too. @Ben (Comment 128) : Hmm true. Thought that may be the season they let him go. perhaps they saw more benefit in Williams then.

  • Comment 129, posted at 06.11.15 13:50:05 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 112) : if I remember correctly it was more a combination of factors: he was struggling with injury, Frans and Andre arrived at the Sharks and White moved Sithole to 13 all this ensured that Tim had no place in the future plans at the Sharks. Sad to see him go but to be honest can keep every play you like and some players had to go.

  • Comment 130, posted at 06.11.15 13:50:43 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 130) : I think Jake White just didn’t rate the kid.

  • Comment 131, posted at 06.11.15 13:54:33 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 126) : I agree on White…think he took time to lay down a good solid base and with that established was looking to then move onto phases B,C ,D etc. Gold arrived late…think he overestimated how much Venter had actually got done. So tried to jump straight into part C but parts A and B were nowhere near fully done. He realised late, tried to go back but by then damage is done and chaos ensued. Gold’s biggest downfalls was arriving late…not laying a foundation and then trying to do a patchwork job which at that level is never a good idea. Just on what i was saying about players for a gameplan…if the Sharks wanted to play kick and bash as an example id use a loose trio of Deysel,Alberts and Coetzee. But if the Sharks wanted to play a faster paced dynamic game id play DuPreez x 2 an Coetzee or VD Walt for example.

  • Comment 132, posted at 06.11.15 13:55:52 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 129) : It’s been a long day, my memory is failing me. Who played 12 in 2014 when Frans Steyn was moved to 10?

  • Comment 133, posted at 06.11.15 13:56:23 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 130) : @Ben (Comment 131) : Yeh fair points. There are other players (namely locks) i would have liked to keep other than Whitehead

  • Comment 134, posted at 06.11.15 13:57:32 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 132) : So what is Gary’s excuse for the Currie Cup failure then?

  • Comment 135, posted at 06.11.15 13:58:40 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 133) : Was it not Jordaan? u testing me here haha or was it perhaps Bosman?

  • Comment 136, posted at 06.11.15 13:58:46 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 136) : Haha, Bosman left the Sharks in 2013.

  • Comment 137, posted at 06.11.15 14:01:36 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 136) : And I honestly can’t recall Paul Jordaan ever wearing the 12 jersey for the Sharks.

  • Comment 138, posted at 06.11.15 14:07:21 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 135) : Ah im really not going to get into that. There are many factors and opinions

  • Comment 139, posted at 06.11.15 14:11:12 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 138) : Eish if it wasnt Bosman or Jordaan im really not sure who…

  • Comment 140, posted at 06.11.15 14:13:23 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 136) : @Ben (Comment 138) : think Tim was also injured. Must have been Heimar and Jordaan. Found team list (on Supersport) for Cape town game (July 2014) Jordaan at 12 with JPP moving into 13.

  • Comment 141, posted at 06.11.15 14:16:57 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 138) : getting old my friend?!?!?! :twisted:

  • Comment 142, posted at 06.11.15 14:18:03 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 142) : It’s been a long day. Like I said. :lol:

  • Comment 143, posted at 06.11.15 14:20:00 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 143) : long weeeeeeeeeeek!!!!!!!!!!

  • Comment 144, posted at 06.11.15 14:23:05 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 144) : That too!

  • Comment 145, posted at 06.11.15 14:44:49 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @Warren Harvey (Comment 146) : Thanks for the stats, very interesting.

  • Comment 146, posted at 06.11.15 15:07:05 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    BenAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 144) : At least you didn’t have to knock someone out last night. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 147, posted at 06.11.15 15:36:10 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • @Ben (Comment 138) : Jordaan played quite a few games for the Sharks at 12 in 2014 when Frans was playing 10…

  • Comment 148, posted at 07.11.15 20:25:25 by pastorshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Administrator
    pastorsharkCoach
     

Add Comment

You must be logged in to post a comment.