robdylan

Bonus point change for Super Rugby


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Super Rugby on 21 Jan 2016 at 09:59
Tagged with : , ,

Here’s an interesting one that should add a fair bit of spice to Super Rugby in 2016…. simply scoring four tries in a match is no longer enough to secure that all-important fifth log point.

In a change confirmed this morning, teams will only accumulate a try-scoring bonus point should they end the match with three tries more than their opponents. In other words, you need a nett positive try difference of three from the game in order to get the extra. This will, of course, have a number of implications.

The first one, of course, is that (by definition), a team that loses the game cannot ever get a try bonus point. This is perhaps a good thing. Only one team in the contest can secure that point (while the losing team could still pick up a log point for losing by seven or less).

The intention, of course, is to change the way sides play and move away from an “attack at all costs” mindset. Teams that shut up shop defensively after scoring their fourth – content to win by 1 point – will have to maintain their shape far better for 80 minutes to prevent their opponents from getting back in range. It’s hard to predict what this will mean for teams who like to score tries but are less fussy about conceding them; my feeling is that we’ll see far fewer bonus points overall this season and only time will tell whether the spectacle is improved as a result.

What do you think, guys? Good thing or bad thing? I’m very much in two minds…



60 Comments

  • So if a team scores 3 tries to none they get a bonus point?

  • Comment 1, posted at 21.01.16 10:01:48 by Ben Reply
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  • You’d think it was ‘Super Rugby: Live at the Apollo’ with all these jokes.

  • Comment 2, posted at 21.01.16 10:03:04 by Seth101 Reply
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  • Isn’t this the same way the French do it in the Top 14?

  • Comment 3, posted at 21.01.16 10:04:20 by Ben Reply
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  • I would have said that why not give a bonus point for every 4 tries scored, and then to add to that the team that can restrict the opponent to score less than 3 tries can also receive a bonus point still, which means that you will have teams attacking through out the game, but their defense should be something special to ensure that the winning team prevails with all the available points

  • Comment 4, posted at 21.01.16 10:04:51 by Henkb Reply
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  • 2 questions . No 1 . do you still need to score 4 tries (IE 3 – 0 does not constitute a bonus point ? )

    no 2 . if team A then scores 4 tries and miss all conversions and team B kicks 7 Penalties but scores no tries .

    Team B wins but team A would score 2 bonus points ?

    although unlikely , but could still happen

  • Comment 5, posted at 21.01.16 10:05:19 by Zibbie Reply
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  • Hmmm, I’m also in two minds whether this is a good or bad thing.

  • Comment 6, posted at 21.01.16 10:05:26 by Ben Reply
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  • @ Ben, exactly the same way the top 14 is working in that regard

  • Comment 7, posted at 21.01.16 10:05:46 by Henkb Reply
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  • I’d be interested to know how many games are won with a 3 try margin, I’d be surprised it it were a lot.

  • Comment 8, posted at 21.01.16 10:06:50 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 5) : You pose some very good questions.

  • Comment 9, posted at 21.01.16 10:07:24 by Ben Reply
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  • So if both teams score eg 4 tries, and one loses by 3, winning team gets 4 points and losing team 1. Same points difference as before. In previous scenario it would have been the same, only 5 and 2 points. Only difference comes in when you score 3 more tries than opposition, then you get one extra log point. So probably a good idea.

  • Comment 10, posted at 21.01.16 10:08:05 by T-Shark Reply

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  • I don’t have a problem with this but I have always had a problem with the losing bonus point.
    I still think that a team winning by 7 or less should only score 3 points with the 4th point going to the losing team.
    This way we still playing for four points,and not rewarding an indecisive game 5 points.

  • Comment 11, posted at 21.01.16 10:11:25 by The hound Reply
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  • Can someone explain why these idiots are announcing rule changes that are meant to ‘change the type of rugby we see’, a month away from the start of the comp? Surely if you want to change the way the game is played, you announce all this with enough time for teams to develop new play styles?

  • Comment 12, posted at 21.01.16 10:11:36 by Seth101 Reply
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  • I think this is a great idea. Never liked the 4 try losing team bonus point and this should change some mindsets.

  • Comment 13, posted at 21.01.16 10:12:10 by Dragnipur Reply
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  • But if Team A has scored four tries and Team B scored three, then surely Team A would still attack at all cost to win with more than three tries? What are they trying to promote? Running rugby by the trailing team? I predict a lot of teams might rather kick at goal, take three points and just win the game than to risk trying to win witha nett of three tries

  • Comment 14, posted at 21.01.16 10:14:33 by JustPlainSHARK Reply

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  • @Ben (Comment 1) : yes

    @Ben (Comment 3) : yes

  • Comment 15, posted at 21.01.16 10:14:51 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 5) : a shit yes. Ok. So I was wrong. it IS possible to pick up a try bonus point and still lose the game.

  • Comment 16, posted at 21.01.16 10:15:49 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 16) : In a bloody ridiculous, all be it unlikely, way.

  • Comment 17, posted at 21.01.16 10:17:24 by Seth101 Reply
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  • I like this idea. Rewards both the attacking and defensive aspect of the game. I think its pretty simple..win or lose if you score 3 more tries than the opposition you get 1 point.

  • Comment 18, posted at 21.01.16 10:17:56 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Ben (Comment 9) : sorry , when i wrote my comment yours was not yet posted :)

  • Comment 19, posted at 21.01.16 10:21:00 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 16) : asking on behalf on the bulls :P

  • Comment 20, posted at 21.01.16 10:22:24 by Zibbie Reply
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  • The timing of this rule change is questionable, but I will wait until at least 4 – 5 rounds before I decide how I feel about it. Like some on here I’m in two minds.

  • Comment 21, posted at 21.01.16 10:34:52 by Farlington Reply

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  • I don’t mind it. My only worry is that it may make the Kiwi teams even more accurate in their attacking play and force SA teams into an even more defensive mindset but this fear may be unfounded. Time will tell.

  • Comment 22, posted at 21.01.16 10:36:36 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Im curious that some say this new rule change will cause teams to change their preparation now just before the tournament starts. I cant think of how this change would require a change in preparation so open to opinion? Were teams focusing on just scoring 4 tries and not defending in the game and being happy with only the 1 point. Just interested as i dont think it makes any difference to preparation.

  • Comment 23, posted at 21.01.16 10:43:50 by SheldonK Reply

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  • Sanzaar is just trying to confuse everyone with all these changes. Probably to take focus away from their ridiculous format.

  • Comment 24, posted at 21.01.16 10:54:01 by JarsonX Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 23) : Well it’s a contradiction, (Not saying you are just the theory behind it in general). These changes are intending to give viewers ‘better’ rugby to watch, but if that’s the case then teams need to go about how they do things differently, if they don’t then we won’t be seeing ‘better’ rugby will we?
    So either these changes are dumb and won’t actually change the rugby we see, or it’s too late for teams to change their approach, either way it’s moronic.

  • Comment 25, posted at 21.01.16 11:02:25 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 25) : I get that the changes want to see ‘better rugby’. If i was in the coaching position im not sure if i would change anything though but i would probably be pleased that there is now some reward for keeping a good defense and playing the full 80min. So i cant see the negative side of the change. The positive is that teams will be rewarded for playing the full 80min and maintaining a good defense. So that for me will be ‘better rugby’. But whether these rule changes came about or not teams should still be focussing on playing the full 80min and maintaining a good defense. I do agree with the Hound that the losing bonus point is silly…you shouldnt get reward for losing.

  • Comment 26, posted at 21.01.16 11:11:36 by SheldonK Reply

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  • This will definitely promote some negative rugby in general. However it may actually play into South africa’s hands.

  • Comment 27, posted at 21.01.16 11:18:22 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 15) : Interesting.

  • Comment 28, posted at 21.01.16 11:20:37 by Ben Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 26) : “keeping a good defense and playing the full 80min”
    Sure, score 3 tries in the first 20mins and defend for the next 60…. Not really what i want to be watching.

  • Comment 29, posted at 21.01.16 11:21:04 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 19) : Oh, I wasn’t accusing you of plagiarism. ;)

  • Comment 30, posted at 21.01.16 11:21:05 by Ben Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 29) : Well scoring 3 tries in 20min would be very exciting to watch and the team is rewarded for that. If you let the opposition continually attack for 60min and hold them out then that is pretty awesome defense and for me thats also entertaining. If people think ‘better rugby’ is only watching tries being scored then 7s rugby is for them not 15s. Its the same with cricket…if you like proper cricket then watch tests, if you like hack and slash where its more luck than skill than T20s are for you. It seems a lot of people want the 7s try scoring fest in 15man rugby…for me that gets boring quick…thats why 7s games are only 14min :)

  • Comment 31, posted at 21.01.16 11:24:30 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 31) : Lol I think you’ll find 7′s games are the length they are because you’d die if you tried to play them longer :lol:

    Look I don’t want a try fest, definitely not, but I want attacking rugby to be played for 80 minutes, this system in my eyes is not the best way to promote that. But then again as I said above I don’t think this system will change anything at all, other than confuse the spectators even more than they already are.

  • Comment 32, posted at 21.01.16 11:32:37 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 24) : think you’re spot on!!! :twisted:

  • Comment 33, posted at 21.01.16 11:35:14 by JD Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 31) : must agree I like test cricket more than T20, except when I must explain to my wife how there can’t be a winner after they played cricket for 5 days!!!!!!!!!! :roll: :shock:

  • Comment 34, posted at 21.01.16 11:41:48 by JD Reply
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  • I like it. Too many of these games with 8 to 10 tries in a match is more a result of bad defence. I think you’ll see teams working much harder for their tries and therefore it might just take that something extra special to get tries. I would think that you’d see fewer give-away tries – tries resulting failed, overly expansive moves, which gave away possession with no defence.

  • Comment 35, posted at 21.01.16 11:42:46 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 32) : Ya look those 7min go by very slowly when you are the one playing. I think the new rule may promote attacking more for the full 80min as if you sit back after 3 tries and opposition score at the death…well you may win but no bonus point for you.

  • Comment 36, posted at 21.01.16 11:44:39 by SheldonK Reply

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  • oh you can’t make this stuff up.

    Just heard from SANZAR that this is not official information. It was a pre-mature leak of something that has yet to be ratified.

  • Comment 37, posted at 21.01.16 11:45:12 by robdylan Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 34) : Thats easy to explain…just tell her its the same thing as you having an argument with her even if you are right…still no winner ;)

  • Comment 38, posted at 21.01.16 11:47:40 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 15) :

    Great, as far as I can remember the Sharks managed to score 3 times plenty of times in the last 2 or 3 years – just missing out on that bonus point and we pride ourselves on keeping a clean sheet. So this might just work out.

  • Comment 39, posted at 21.01.16 11:50:46 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 39) : Thats a good point.

  • Comment 40, posted at 21.01.16 11:55:37 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Letgo (Comment 39) : “pride ourselves on keeping a clean sheet”….. aaah Letgo, I love optimists. Even ones that clearly did not watch ANY Super Rugby in 2015 :)

  • Comment 41, posted at 21.01.16 12:00:21 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 41) : Look some 2015 games aside the Sharks do often score 3 tries without getting reward..well if memory serves me right

  • Comment 42, posted at 21.01.16 12:20:29 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 38) : trust me in our arguments there’s always a winner!!!!!!!! even if she’s wrong she still the winner!!!!!!!!!!! :shock: :twisted:

  • Comment 43, posted at 21.01.16 12:25:13 by JD Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 39) : @robdylan (Comment 41) : maybe it’s a short term memory thing?!?! :twisted:

  • Comment 44, posted at 21.01.16 12:26:26 by JD Reply
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  • My understanding is that this is designed to actually create more tries. Why then are they introducing a 3 try difference? Besides, teams would be stupid to just score 3 tries and defend for the next 60 minutes hoping that the other team won’t score a try on the 79th minute. The rule is actually introduced to promote more attack for 80 minutes. Gone are the days when teams will just send all their reserves because they are 10 minutes left and they are 3 tries ahead. We are also going to see fewer kicks at poles from the really bold teams. I just hope Gary doesn’t interpret this as a move towards an even more defensive orientated game. Granted it also does promote defence as you don’t want the other team to claw back the try differential and cost you your bonus point. Message is simple, score those tries and give yourself as much breathing space. I know that is how the other teams in NZ and Argentina are going to view it. Add the Waratahs, Brumbies, Stormers, Lions and Cheetahs to that list. Two things can happen, we get heavily embarrassed week in week out or benefit from the reckless teams. Think about it. The score could be 30 – 27 with the side with the 30 points having scored 3 tries and the side with the 27 points having kicked 9 penalties. Yes you finished within 7 points but didn’t meet the bonus point target so no losing bonus point.

  • Comment 45, posted at 21.01.16 12:28:43 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • @JD (Comment 43) : You need to improve your defense. Maybe ask for a change in the points system ;)

  • Comment 46, posted at 21.01.16 12:32:37 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 37) : hahahaha they’re funnier than Trevor Noah!!!!!!!!!!

  • Comment 47, posted at 21.01.16 12:32:45 by JD Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 46) : hahaha will try that!!!!!!!! :mrgreen: :shock:

  • Comment 48, posted at 21.01.16 12:33:36 by JD Reply
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  • Mmmh this has ups and downs its interesting as it strips more bonus points than it adds (there are lots of 4 tries to 4 which now give 0 instead of 1 each… the down side is you only chase the three points try difference if you playing someone from your pool as you are fighting to squash their bonus point rather than get your own.

    Because I can… I decided to run the new bonus points scheme against 2014 season (the last season which I acknowledge) and a few interesting things are shown… basically it sucks for New Zealand (YEAH finally something to go against them) and great for Aus (WTF another advantage to the Aus who actually had some teams gaining)

    Aus bonus points was positively hit going up from 183 to 184 (hardest hit was Reds who wend from 28 to 25… most positive was the force from 40 to 44) and no positional changes Sharks lost one bonus point and stayed on the top of the log

    SA bonus points goes from 174 to 168 (hardest hit was Cheetahs) and no positional changes Sharks lost one bonus point and stayed on the top of the log

    NZ Bonus points drop the most from 215 to 205 (hardest hit was highlanders losing 4 and the only positive was hurricanes gaining 3… the other lost 3)

    the combined pool changed from

    Waratahs 58
    Crusaders 48
    Sharks 46
    Brumbies 42
    Chiefs 44
    Highlanders 42

    to

    Waratahs 57
    Sharks 49
    Crusaders 48
    Hurricanes 44
    Force 44
    Chiefs 41

  • Comment 49, posted at 21.01.16 13:52:56 by Warren Harvey Reply

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  • I’m sorry, this seems like a really good idea, but if we’re going for more tries, why are we copying from the frogs?

  • Comment 50, posted at 21.01.16 13:54:52 by the ko Reply

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  • @Warren Harvey (Comment 49) : Strange to think that the winner of THAT 130+ point game between the Lions and Chiefs would only have taken 4 points home! I do really like the idea of the winner having to give the loser a point for finishing within 7 though!

  • Comment 51, posted at 21.01.16 13:59:43 by the ko Reply

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  • @the ko (Comment 50) : cause they don’t have any creativity to create their own!!!!!!!!!!!! :twisted:

  • Comment 52, posted at 21.01.16 14:27:40 by JD Reply
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  • Is this not the same system they have been using in the French Top 14 for the last few years?

  • Comment 53, posted at 21.01.16 14:45:37 by Flintshark Reply

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  • @Flintshark (Comment 53) : it is, yeah

  • Comment 54, posted at 21.01.16 14:52:16 by robdylan Reply
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  • Meh…there are up and downsides to this. We would need to see how the teams and the game adapts. For now I can’t see how it can be negative. If you’re a winning team you will pull ahead regardless. Bonus point luckies is just for teams who need to scrape into position.

  • Comment 55, posted at 21.01.16 20:02:48 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @Warren Harvey (Comment 49) : Interesting. Thanks for the analysis.

  • Comment 56, posted at 21.01.16 20:52:30 by MysticShark Reply
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  • @Warren Harvey (Comment 49) : I’m just wondering whether everyone will just approach the game exactly as before and the scoring will just change slightly…or whether this will cause teams to change their approach. Personally I reckon its more likely that teams who are three tries to the good with 10 minutes to go will shut up shop than go for another try to be four tries to the good. Anyway, we’ll see…

  • Comment 57, posted at 23.01.16 21:19:47 by pastorshark Reply
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  • I see that quite a few coaches are very unhappy about this change and particularly about the fact that this was not discussed with unions or coaches and with the timing. I must say this seems to be another reason to suspect that SANZAAR really is a few blades of grass short of a lush rugby field…

  • Comment 58, posted at 23.01.16 21:21:51 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 58) : nice one!!!!

  • Comment 59, posted at 24.01.16 09:34:07 by JD Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 58) : I think the general feeling of unhappiness is more regarding the format than this change in bonus points but this just gives them the opportunity to vent frustration. In terms of what you said about teams closing up shop…thats not such an easy thing to do…if you just kick the ball downfield then you give teams with good runners the chance to counter attack constantly….if you try keep it tight and just pick and drive its very energy sapping and if you do turn it over you have a lot of numbers committed to a ruck. So shutting up shop could backfire badly on teams

  • Comment 60, posted at 25.01.16 08:10:44 by SheldonK Reply

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