robdylan

Wipe up the milk, there’s rugby to play


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks, Super Rugby on 17 Feb 2016 at 10:51
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While yesterday’s injury report from Doc Kourie seems to be causing a number of media houses to once again re-evaluate their Super Rugby predictions (they had, after all, decided to hastily install the Sharks as conference favourites after the French games), the news contained therein is not really new to most of us here. As the old proverb goes, there’s no use crying over spilt milk and in the case of Pat Lambie, in particular, we’ve known for some time already that we were going to have to make do without him for a reasonable chunk of the season.

Bad things happen to good people – this is just a part of life and it’s nothing new. While we all feel deeply for Pat and the others, we as fans need to bounce back from this development and give our fullest backing to the players that are fit and healthy. Yes, it sucks ass to lose key players during pre-season, but have a look around at how other franchises are doing and you’ll probably conclude that the Sharks aren’t really that badly off in relative terms. Lambie, at least, will play a few games for us in this campaign (possibly as many as 5, excluding any knock outs) which is a heck of a lot more than the Bulls, for instance, will get from Handre Pollard.

There’s always a flip side to every coin and the reality is that, with Pat fit, healthy and wearing the captain’s armband, we would have had very little real opportunity to see anyone else run at flyhalf this season. We’re now being forced to have a proper look at Garth April and Inny-Christian Radebe and I can’t help but be incredibly excited at what those two players can bring. Joe Pietersen will play an important nurturing role to lessen their baptism of fire, but I’d be very surprised if the South Coast veteran really becomes the de facto flyhalf for the season.

Renaldo Bothma will be back in action very soon (I’ve heard 3 weeks) and with the “blue bird” signing of Keegan Daniel to go along with all the other loose forwards, there’s simply no need to get even remotely worked up about his non-availability. By the same token, while it’s bloody annoying to have to pay for Jacques Potgieter’s rehab, it’s not like we’re going to be at all short in the loose forward stocks while we wait for him to recover. He’s only likely to miss 6 games anyway, hardly “the bulk of the season” as is being reported elsewhere. In fact, you could argue that Potgieter is superfluous as a loose forward anyway and that it’s his value at lock that we’ll miss more and there is some merit to that point of view.

Ruan Botha. Now there’s the real blow, because our depth at 5-lock is a big worry. We’ll do fine initially with the amazing Stephan Lewies there, but I’d really prefer for him to be gradually reintroduced following his long injury lay-off, rather than be expected to play every game. David McDuling is not physically imposing enough (despite his ticker and athleticism) to be a real option in the middle of the lineout, while I have my doubts about Hyron Andrews’ readiness to play a starting role at Super Rugby level in 2016. There’s a possibility that Namibian Tjiuee Uanivi could be recalled from his loan spell at the Kings and while I’m hesitant to suggest going back on a deal, I wonder if the time might be right to do exactly that in this case.

The alternative is to bite the bullet at lock and let the youngsters like Andrews, Juan Droste and Christie van der Merwe have a run. Either way, we’ll learn a lot.

Francois Kleinhans, strangely enough, is the real loser here, because he is the guy who had the most to prove this year and now won’t get that opportunity. Lambie and Botha are both pretty much guaranteed starters when fit, but Franna is the guy who seems to be quite literally playing for his future in the game with each campaign and another serious injury at this stage is nothing short of a crippling blow to the young man’s ambitions. My heart goes out to him especially.

Be of good cheer, though, Sharks fans. There’s plenty of milk still in the fridge and we’re not even at the stage where we need to go check the cow shed.



153 Comments

  • Locks all round seem to be a problem and good luck to Stormers who have to rely on hewhoshallnotbenamed to play most games as their backups are injured.

    Hopefully GG plays to strengths of squad available and not try and force players to play roles not naturally comfortable.

    The signs from the so called dirt trackers were encouraging and me mind find another Lewis. ..

  • Comment 1, posted at 17.02.16 10:57:04 by Kabouter Reply
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  • Good post Rob, I am still optimistic irrespective the injury problems, I believe!!!

    Why do I believe, simply because there seems to be great attitude and respect for the jersey again, players young and old are showing readiness which we have not witnessed in many season.

    I am not saying we will win SR, I am saying we will be right UP there and will not roll over like last year.

    I reckon even Curwin Bosch as well as the Tedder fellow will come to the fore this year.

  • Comment 2, posted at 17.02.16 11:01:42 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • As for Lock if we need to recall or get in a good 5 lock from over seas we must. or Lewies and Andrews must carry that load, and prey we do not pick up injuries to them again.

  • Comment 3, posted at 17.02.16 11:03:24 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • Actually the biggest thing why I believe is because I see the “PLAYERS BELIEVE”

  • Comment 4, posted at 17.02.16 11:07:45 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 3) : losing ruan botha is a massive blow.bring back uanivi from the kings.imo he should never have been loaned.also makes better sense than signing an overseas player re: financially. options at 5-lock: lewies,uanivi and andrews.hyron is still young (u21) and a bit thin (2.03m ± 107kg?),but needs to learn and toughen up sometime.also a better long-term investment than a short-notice stop-gap one season onlly player.

  • Comment 5, posted at 17.02.16 11:35:42 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • I still think Dan du Preez is the answer at lock,he is strong enough,an excellent jumper and brings a lot of dog fuck.
    He is a natural lock having played there his whole school career.
    We are short in the lock stakes and over blessed with loosies stock.
    Play Dan with Lewies,and Marcel,the other twin and a combination of Bothma/Keegan as the loose trio.

  • Comment 6, posted at 17.02.16 11:50:11 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 6) : could work!!! Really lot’s of mongrel in that players!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Comment 7, posted at 17.02.16 12:11:51 by JD Reply
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  • Rob you think they might have a look at Marco seeing the loss of Botha, Lewies injury problems and Uanivi being at the Kings?

  • Comment 8, posted at 17.02.16 12:15:23 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 8) : I have a feeling there’s just too much water under the bridge for that to happen

  • Comment 9, posted at 17.02.16 12:20:26 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 8) : Botha will be back,Lewies will be back, Marco is yesterdays news.
    I will be so disappointed if I see Marco and Daniels in the starting 15.
    We need to make a huge statement this year that this is a young exciting team not afraid to fail.

  • Comment 10, posted at 17.02.16 12:22:26 by The hound Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 8) : Please no.

  • Comment 11, posted at 17.02.16 12:33:37 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 9) : @The hound (Comment 10) : must admit I asked the question to see how people feel about it. I also can’t see it happening and don’t know how I would feel about it. Really hope they can recall Uanivi!

  • Comment 12, posted at 17.02.16 12:36:28 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 12) : they can’t go back to Marco, not without losing more face than they collectively possess….

  • Comment 13, posted at 17.02.16 12:52:04 by robdylan Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 12) : a look at the kings pre-season friendlies dont show uanivi in any of the teams.that is interesting.

  • Comment 14, posted at 17.02.16 12:52:40 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 14) : to be honest I did not even look at their teams.

  • Comment 15, posted at 17.02.16 12:54:17 by JD Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 13) : I had the same idea about it. For me it is interesting that the Kings did not opt to get him involved.

  • Comment 16, posted at 17.02.16 12:56:02 by JD Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 6) : I suggested a while ago that one of the twins fills our locking requirements. I actually suggested Jean be moved to 5 but was told about his height restrictions. Maybe he can move to 4 then? Lewis and him could make a goodish combination me thinks.

  • Comment 17, posted at 17.02.16 13:03:20 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • 5 lewies 4 oosthuizen as 1st choice at the moment?depending on lewies’ fitness.otherwise 5 andrews 4 oosthuizen.

  • Comment 18, posted at 17.02.16 13:03:21 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • This Uanvivi is starting to remind me of Sylvester Clarke,in the 90′s when he used to sign up for two different provinces t the same time.

  • Comment 19, posted at 17.02.16 13:05:31 by The hound Reply
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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 17) : jean-luc is 1.94m 113kg.mcduling is 1.96m and seems heavier than 117kg.oosthuizen and mtyanda are both 1.98m.think you can play a 1.94m 4-lock at line-outs in superrugby.especially considering what more the player brings aside from line-out jumping.talking contribution at mauls,carries,support play,tackling.jacques potgieter is 1.94m 115kg.

  • Comment 20, posted at 17.02.16 13:12:10 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • I think we’re missing the point with the du Preez brothers. There is simply no way either of them is going to be able to play 5 lock and that’s where we have a problem.

  • Comment 21, posted at 17.02.16 13:26:54 by robdylan Reply
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  • So trying to put a side together with guys currently fit (i dont buy the expected to be fit card as its often wrong): 1. Beast 2. Cooper. 3. Coenie 4. Oosthuizen 5. Andrews 6. Coetzee 7. DuPreez 8. DuPreez 9. Reinach 10. Pieterson 11. Mvovo 12. Esterhuizen 13. Jordaan 14. Sithole 15. LeRoux The bench can be a a mix match of who is left

  • Comment 22, posted at 17.02.16 13:28:35 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 22) : yes,we only have 2 options at the moment at 5-lock: lewies and andrews.

  • Comment 23, posted at 17.02.16 13:34:26 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 23) : at 9 claassens maybe?and jpp came back from japan as the form 13 of the league.will the sharks play him on the wing or 13 this season?

  • Comment 24, posted at 17.02.16 13:39:32 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 22) : that side is good enough to murder the Kings, surely?

  • Comment 25, posted at 17.02.16 13:41:55 by robdylan Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 22) : Andrews still very light. He battled in tight last week. Great prospect though. Think he is a year or so short. Have faith in our new conditioning guy.

  • Comment 26, posted at 17.02.16 13:43:02 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 25) : @GreatSharksays (Comment 26) : Who’s the new conditioning guy?

  • Comment 27, posted at 17.02.16 13:46:34 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 21) : Funny Dan was good enough to play lock for Natal schools for three years.
    Please name me another lock retired or playing who ever achieved that.

  • Comment 28, posted at 17.02.16 13:48:03 by The hound Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 27) : Don’t know his name. All I know is that he is extremely good. Never seen our boys looking this good from a conditioning point of view.

  • Comment 29, posted at 17.02.16 13:49:59 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 21) He is 1,96 metres and represented S.A School s in that position for 2 years,so how come you are so certain that he can’t play there,what do you know that we don’t.

  • Comment 30, posted at 17.02.16 13:53:38 by The hound Reply
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  • @robdylan: remember watching the impi’s first game and seeing jean droste leave the field injured.not seen him in the impi match 23 since.so he is also most probably on the injured list.

  • Comment 31, posted at 17.02.16 13:55:34 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 31) : did he play 4 or 5 lock ?

  • Comment 32, posted at 17.02.16 14:03:17 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 32) : He played most of his school rugby at 5,and his brother at 7.
    Don’t think of this guy as Victor Mattfield rather think of him as Bakkies Botha.

  • Comment 33, posted at 17.02.16 14:12:10 by The hound Reply
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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 20) : Alex Ainsely 1.97,and Mark Reddish 1.96,play most of the winning 2015 final at 4,5 for the Highlanders.

  • Comment 34, posted at 17.02.16 14:23:42 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 33) : I think for the longevity of his career, it might be good for him to stay and flank for the next year or two. Your body takes a massive beating in the scrum/tight 5. We all know that you think the Dup twins are next coming, and we all regard them extremely highly as well, but these boys are still very young and they will fins their niche in the coming years. I am also sure that their dad is guiding their careers better than any of us can ever dream of doing, so I think that if Rob deemed him ready to play lock at senior level then he would’ve been playing there already.

  • Comment 35, posted at 17.02.16 14:25:11 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 24) : @robdylan (Comment 25) : I reckon that side could definitely beat the Kings. Forgot about JPP- he will slot in at 13 i reckon

  • Comment 36, posted at 17.02.16 14:26:47 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 35) : I resent your tone,have I once said anything about those twins that is unwarranted .
    What you are witness to now some of us watched 6 years ago.

  • Comment 37, posted at 17.02.16 14:30:45 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 37) : I understand you have watched them play since school days, and yes, you have always been a very loyal and vocal supporter of them, but take a look at most of these youngsters that gets pushed into top level rugby at such a young age. No doubt all of them had talent, but look at how many of them had picked up serious injuries or are fairly injury prone later in their careers. Just let these guys mature at the correct age. I would rather want to watch these two awesome players have a successful long career than a quick one. I hope you understand my point, because I really do understand your’s.

  • Comment 38, posted at 17.02.16 14:38:19 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 37) : Sorry mate but what @KingRiaan (Comment 35) : said is far more sensible then anything you have. If Rob feels Dan should be a lock then I am sure we will see him at lock. Rob will know what’s best for them.

  • Comment 39, posted at 17.02.16 14:44:20 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 30) :

    Do you believe 5 lock is the best position for him? Or is it simply that you feel he can fill that requirement while we are understocked? If so, should we not rather continue using him where he will develop to be he best player he can possibly be, even maybe one day become a Springbok?

    Simply put, I do not know either of the Du Preeze twins well enough to comment on pure ability, but based on physical dimensions I cannot believe that either of the Du Preeze twins is best suited for 5 lock or that either of them would be able to play themselves into the Bok team in that position.

  • Comment 40, posted at 17.02.16 14:44:20 by Letgo Reply
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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 38) : relax these guys have a very mature hand on their collar.
    They won’t be allowed to develop Franscoise Steyn,Bismarck type egos.
    No it is not their father,its their mother.

  • Comment 41, posted at 17.02.16 14:44:24 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 28) : mate, are you being intentionally obtuse here? Are you aware that 4-lock and 5-lock are vastly different positions?

  • Comment 42, posted at 17.02.16 14:47:11 by robdylan Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 27) : Johan Pretorius

  • Comment 43, posted at 17.02.16 14:47:26 by robdylan Reply
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  • there will always be exceptions, but the trend in terms of height for a 5 lock is only moving in one direction. You can get away with 1.96m at 4 if you are suitably explosive, but when you come up against 2.08m of Dom Bird or 2.06m of Lood de Jager in the lineout, a 1.96m 5-lock is just not going to cut it. End of.

    You cannot coach a guy to be taller.

  • Comment 44, posted at 17.02.16 14:50:13 by robdylan Reply
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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 26) : Fair enough, your choice for that o. 5 slot?

  • Comment 45, posted at 17.02.16 14:50:41 by SheldonK Reply

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  • man, even 4 locks are growing. Will Skelton, Eben Etzebeth both 2.03m. That Bulls kid Jason Jenkins is 2.02 (I think)

  • Comment 46, posted at 17.02.16 14:53:42 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 44) : Maybe you should tell that to the coaching staff at the Highlanders.

  • Comment 47, posted at 17.02.16 14:54:09 by The hound Reply
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  • Michael Jordan’s recognised as the finest to ever play basket ball,not maybe the finest but unequivocally the finest ,do yourself a favour and google his height,and the average height of those around him,obtuse enough for you.

  • Comment 48, posted at 17.02.16 14:57:13 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 47) : that the Highlanders won Super Rugby once with a 5-lock under 2m is really not statistically significant. Ask yourself how many other times that has happened in history?

    As they say, even a blind squirrel finds a nut eventually.

  • Comment 49, posted at 17.02.16 14:59:40 by robdylan Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 48) : we’re not talking about basketball, we’re talking about rugby.

    But this is going nowhere. There is a massive fallacy in your argument here. You assume Dan WANTS to play lock for the Sharks. Reality is, he doesn’t. The brothers see themselves as a package deal at 7 and 8.

    I promise you this, the Sharks will play plenty of other loose forwards at lock before they even think of putting Dan du Preez there. Deysel is perhaps highest on that list (well, after Potgieter)

  • Comment 50, posted at 17.02.16 15:01:27 by robdylan Reply
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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 31) : Droste started for them this past Monday

  • Comment 51, posted at 17.02.16 15:02:35 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 49) : And that short Highlanders 5 lock has never played for the All Blacks, so if we are happy with Dan never being able to play for the Bokke in his Super Rugby position then sure let’s select him there.

  • Comment 52, posted at 17.02.16 15:04:50 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 49) : Bullshit,you made a sweeping blanket statement,I proved you wrong,and your answer is
    ”even a blind squirrel finds a nut eventually.’I think its rather a case of sometimes even the wisest owl speaks out his arse.

  • Comment 53, posted at 17.02.16 15:07:31 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 53) : was that a compliment? In which case I thank you :)

    But no, I stick by my point. The squirrel comment was tongue-in-cheek, but you know as well as I do there will always be exceptions, but you should learn to see them for what they are.

  • Comment 54, posted at 17.02.16 15:09:56 by robdylan Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 53) : You proved him wrong with a statistical anomaly, of a player who does not have the physical attributes to represent his country in his position. Assuming you’re the huge du Preez fan you claim to be, you’d want them to play in the position that gets them into the green and gold.

  • Comment 55, posted at 17.02.16 15:10:17 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 50) : I not talking about basket ball i am talking about the ability to jump being defined by your height.I was fortunate enough to watch MJ and trust me it never mattered that he was the shortest guy on the court.

  • Comment 56, posted at 17.02.16 15:11:21 by The hound Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 55) : He has already represented his country twice in that position,cmon that was really lame.

  • Comment 57, posted at 17.02.16 15:12:55 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 34) :

    The Highlanders aren’t the best line-out team, they make do with what they had, as far as I know, neither Alex Ainley or Mark Reddish has ever been picked as All Black locks. Why do you use them as examples, because their team faired well? But if they could select the All Black locks instead of these two, do you think they would have been worse of? It is not a good example. Just because a player can be used as a lock, does not mean he is the best option, or even if he is the best or only option, that still doesn’t mean lock is his best position.

    And also, at school, you hardly ever have to play against guys like Brodie Retallick (2.04 and 121kg) , Samual Whitelock (2.03 and 113K), Kane Douglas (2.02 and 123kg), Rob Simmons (2.00 and 115kg), Eben Etzebeth (2.04 and 123kg), Lood de Jager (2.05 and 125kg), Tomás Lavanini (2.01 and 130kg), Richie Gray (2.08 and 128kg), Devin Toner (2.1 and 124kg), Yoann Maestri (2.02 and 119kg), Luke Charteris (2.06 and 125kg), just to name a few international locks – so I hardly think school level is a good measure of how good a player will be at lock.

  • Comment 58, posted at 17.02.16 15:13:57 by Letgo Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 57) : I think you will find there is a slight difference between junior and senior rugby. :roll:

  • Comment 59, posted at 17.02.16 15:14:35 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 58) : Very well put and detailed, thank you.

    Also wow Devin Toner is huge.

  • Comment 60, posted at 17.02.16 15:15:44 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 34) : You have a point. Hymm. Suppose if we can ensure ball security at lineout, why not play one of them at lock? Or even both…

  • Comment 61, posted at 17.02.16 15:16:04 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 53) : my mistake!thanks for the correction.where were my reading glasses ? :D

  • Comment 62, posted at 17.02.16 15:17:46 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @Seth101 (Comment 55) : I think what we are hearing here is that it is much more preferable to play 6,7,8 than 4or 5.
    Can’t say I believe that.
    My original point was we are blessed with a surplus of top quality loose forwards ,and a dearth of locks,I would rather see Dan at Locke than anything we have bar Botha and Lewies
    I would love to see him at 8,but have watched him at 5 playing with his brother at 7 I know just how special that combination is.

  • Comment 63, posted at 17.02.16 15:18:36 by The hound Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 44) : another good point. I withdraw my comment with regards to either of thw twins playing at 5. 4 maybe.

  • Comment 64, posted at 17.02.16 15:20:11 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 54) :

    There has been other great basketball players of Jordan’s hieght. The tallest players aren’t always the best.

    Case in point, Micheal Jordan and Kobe Bryant both 1.98m both regarded as great basketball players. The reigning NBA MVP, Stephen Curry, actually stands at 1.91.

    Name me a couple great locks of Dan’s built and we can continue this silly discussion.

  • Comment 65, posted at 17.02.16 15:20:46 by Letgo Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 63) : Personally I’d like to see him play for for his country, and I know he has no hope in hell of doing that at 5.

  • Comment 66, posted at 17.02.16 15:20:48 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 56) :

    Locks don’t jump. They get lifted. I highly doubt how high a lock can jump comes into consideration.

  • Comment 67, posted at 17.02.16 15:22:01 by Letgo Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 45) : Lewis. We are thin there. Need to find a long term solution there. And yes, don’t believe Ruan Botha is the solution…too soft for me. Lol…maybe my new hero…our conditioning coach will get him tough as nails in the near future.

  • Comment 68, posted at 17.02.16 15:24:24 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 68) : Can you imagine him standing next to Dan in a line out looking down at him. :lol: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 69, posted at 17.02.16 15:26:51 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 69) : he is the only answer,the rest of our locks apart from Glas Lewies are far too docile.
    We need an iron man at 5 and Dan is the man.:

  • Comment 70, posted at 17.02.16 15:27:11 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 71) : Thank God our coaches aren’t as willing to throw logic out the window.

  • Comment 71, posted at 17.02.16 15:29:09 by Seth101 Reply
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  • Hound, when did Dan play lock for the Baby Boks? I can only find evidence of him playing loose forward

  • Comment 72, posted at 17.02.16 15:30:40 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 70) : No but I still have a memory of Kobus Wiese1.99,and Derwyn Jones 2.08.

  • Comment 73, posted at 17.02.16 15:31:08 by The hound Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 73) :S.A schools 2 years,

  • Comment 74, posted at 17.02.16 15:32:19 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 56) :

    You don’t have a very good understanding of basketball if you think it’s the tallest guys on the court that makes the biggest plays. The tallest guys usually don’t play shooting guard. Jordan was in the higher range of a shooting gaurd as a shooting guard needs to be more nimble to move around the court.

    Notable swing men (also known as wing players) include Gordon Hayward, Andre Iguodala, Evan Turner, Rudy Gay, Klay Thompson, Jimmy Butler and Tyreke Evans. In the NBA, shooting guards usually range from 6′ 4″ (1.93 m) to 6′ 7″ (2.01 m).

    The taller guys play center, guys like Yao Ming and Shaq 2.29 and 2.19. But they are slow and need guys like Kobe, MJ, Lebron… to make the plays for them.

    If you are going to make a cross-sport analogy, you still have to know a little about each sport to make the argument come together.

  • Comment 75, posted at 17.02.16 15:33:13 by Letgo Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 74) : Great so our game plan is to get Dan to knockout any lock taller than him? Seems legit.

  • Comment 76, posted at 17.02.16 15:34:02 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 75) : You obviously never saw Jordan jump.Please read the piece before you assassinate it.
    It was written in regard to the absurd statement that you had to be over 2 metres play lock.
    The only justification for this is that taller guys jump higher.

  • Comment 77, posted at 17.02.16 15:37:44 by The hound Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 76) : No it is in answer to your absurd comment that a tall lock intimidates a short one,you forgot to tell Kubus.

  • Comment 78, posted at 17.02.16 15:38:56 by The hound Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 72) : The one and only SA schools team sheet I can find has Dan riding bench in the 20 jersey.

    http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/SA-schools-side-named-20120809

  • Comment 79, posted at 17.02.16 15:40:03 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 74) : ok, so in other words, at school he was considered tall enough to play lock, but even at national under 20 level the consensus was already that he was too short.

    Mate, I am 1.78m and i played lock right up to u15 level. Doesn’t mean I think I’m a lock now.

  • Comment 80, posted at 17.02.16 15:41:22 by robdylan Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 78) : Point of what I said is that it was done because Kobus couldn’t compete at the line outs, exhibit A:

    “He was part of the winning squad of the 1995 Rugby World Cup. He received a three match ban for punching and knocking out Derwyn Jones of Wales in the 40-11 win in 1995. Jones was a major line out threat and was knocked cold by a punch from behind in the fourth minute of the match”

  • Comment 81, posted at 17.02.16 15:41:57 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 80) : Same boat, I am 183 and played lock up until grade 11, definitely wouldn’t play lock now.

  • Comment 82, posted at 17.02.16 15:43:48 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 79) : and amazingly, the 2.02m JD Shickerling was the guy who got the starting jersey in that team. Dan made the bench as loose forward cover.

  • Comment 83, posted at 17.02.16 15:45:06 by robdylan Reply
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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 68) : im still very sceptical about Lewies being fit…when last did he actually play a game?

  • Comment 84, posted at 17.02.16 15:46:31 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 80) : @Seth101 (Comment 82) :relax guys even Gary Gold is not stupid enough to call you up.:

  • Comment 85, posted at 17.02.16 15:50:35 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 85) : Well you’re trying to convince us he is stupid enough to play Dan at 5, so you never know ;-)

  • Comment 86, posted at 17.02.16 15:51:49 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 86) : Funny don’t remember these same gurus squealing when Willem Alberts1.92,Jean Deysel1.92 and even Steven Sykes 1.97 were playing lock for the Sharks.

  • Comment 87, posted at 17.02.16 15:55:42 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 80) : it is not based on taller guys jumping higher imo.reach also comes into play here.all things being equal, the taller player will outreach the shorter player standing since normal wingspan is usually equal to height.but there are many exceptions.heard of a german olympic swimmer 6’8 with 8′ wingspan.he wouldve made a good line-out lock,i think.and that reach is what helps line-out jumpers to not just win the battle for height,but also claim the space infront.2 players jumping at the same time reaching towards the ball.

  • Comment 88, posted at 17.02.16 16:00:03 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 87) : Steven Sykes has always been a bit on the short side for a lock, and Deysel and Alberts was only used there as a stopgap because of injuries

  • Comment 89, posted at 17.02.16 16:00:14 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 87) : I think if you go back and read the comments, you will find people complaining every single time we had to play a flank at lock due to injury. Do tell, how many times did any of those players play at 5?

    I am very over this, you’re selectively ignoring all the facts. It takes a big man to admit being wrong…. so far there has been no admission, just saying.

  • Comment 90, posted at 17.02.16 16:00:16 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 87) : none of them played at 5, mate….

  • Comment 91, posted at 17.02.16 16:00:29 by robdylan Reply
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  • A short lock is like a skinny prop is like a fat fh….could work, but really shouldn’t be done. ;)

  • Comment 92, posted at 17.02.16 16:05:51 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Seth101 (Comment 90) : It’s a 2 way street,I never said that Dan should play 5,I was asked and said he used to play 5,but I also said he’s not a Victor he’s a Bakkies or didn’t I..
    I still believe that he could play 5 at stretch,4 with ease 6,7 or 8.
    I am tired of this pack attack, you guys are find another victim.

  • Comment 93, posted at 17.02.16 16:10:14 by The hound Reply
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  • Last word,Todd Blackadder 1.90.Brad Thorne 1.96,Robin Brooke 1.97.

  • Comment 94, posted at 17.02.16 16:22:20 by The hound Reply
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  • @Letgo: some interesting stats on jordan,kobe and lebron re: 1.height,2.wingspan,3.standing reach,4.hand lenght,5.hand spread.
    lebron 1. 6’7.25 2. 7’0.25 3. 8’9.5 4. 9′ 5. 9’25
    jordan 1. 6’4.88 2.6’11.5 3. 8’9.25 4. 9’75 5. 11’375
    kobe 1.6’4.75 2. 6’11 3. 8’9 4.9’125
    Seems as if both kobe and jordan shorter than 1.98m or 6’6.former nba player charles barkley said that most players in the nba’s height is inflated by approx an inch.

  • Comment 95, posted at 17.02.16 16:30:28 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • glad the aussies missed this one: nathan jawai 2.09m 143.drafted into the nba.

  • Comment 96, posted at 17.02.16 16:39:30 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • Nice one, Rob! Well played…

  • Comment 97, posted at 17.02.16 20:09:04 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Personally I would feel much better if we recalled Uanivi…but I reckon we could get by even if we didn’t…

  • Comment 98, posted at 17.02.16 20:12:38 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 6) : That is a genuine option too…

  • Comment 99, posted at 17.02.16 20:16:49 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 23) : And McDuling? Is he only a 4 or could he play 5?

  • Comment 100, posted at 17.02.16 20:24:32 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 26) : Agreed…

  • Comment 101, posted at 17.02.16 20:25:37 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 26) : At this stage let Andrews be your bench man, backing up 5 with a du Preez twin backing up 4…maybe for the Kings game play Andrews or McDuling, easing Lewies back in to start the following week?

  • Comment 102, posted at 17.02.16 20:27:59 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 77) :

    If we were playing rugby with the same rules as 20 year ago, a lock that can jump really high would be important. Locks get lifted today. I don’t know how important it is how high they can jump, they all get lifted the same way. Being able to jump high would simply make the lift easier for the lifters.

    Am I wrong in assuming this?

  • Comment 103, posted at 17.02.16 21:06:34 by Letgo Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 104) : 1.96m 117kg (though seems heavier,maybe 120kg-plus).think he is a no4-lock who can play no7 flank.imo at the moment our options at no5-lock are lewies and andrews.uncertain about lewies’ match fitness.so andrews to start and lewies on the bench,would be my selection.oosthuizen no4-lock.would play du preez twins with marcell as loosies.gives the sharks good height at the back of the line-out,too.andrews isn’t the biggest lock out there 2.03m ±108kg,but albert vd berg was 2.01m ±107kg.think when albert joined the sharks from griquas he weighed under or just 100kg?98kg?

  • Comment 104, posted at 17.02.16 21:07:35 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • In basketball, the battle for the rebound is the closest approximation to lineout play in rugby. The battle for the rebound is fought out between the power forwards and the centers, smallest power forward in the NBA is 6′ 8″ and centers are all around the 7 foot mark. There is no point whatsoever in discussing the shooting guards mentioned above and the point guards as they do not generally get involved under the basket. Jordan was an athletic phenom, with a ridiculous vertical jump, but he still played guard and not forward.

  • Comment 105, posted at 17.02.16 22:15:08 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • Dan at 5 and Jean Luc on the wing. That frees up Odwa to take over Lambie’s duties at flyhalf. All problems are now solved. You’re welcome Sharks.

  • Comment 106, posted at 17.02.16 22:24:19 by vanmartin Reply
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  • things are getting heated

    so our official lock options are

    botha: great 5, so glad we got him

    lewies: iv seen him play 4 and 5

    Gaint: a awesome 4

    H Andrews: potentially amazing 5 after one/two more years of development and bulking up

    dave Mcduling: 4 (not a fan of his ability)

    E ousthuisen: 4 (blows hot and cold but looked good in pre season, way better at 4 than at 7 IMHO)

    Jacques Potgieter: looked a skillful 4 option at the waratahs, hope he displays that type of ability at the shark tank when he gets back from injury :)

    Tjiuee Uanivi: 4/5? looked good at the WC at lineout time and with the ball in hand

    and then the youngsters coming through eg: Johan du tiot

    so after all these guys if theres a need then we should play Dan at number 4 not number 5, but only if really need, like if its a choose ov playing him or a fragile youth team player then play him

    It has been made clear by the sharks that Dan is a 8 and his brother is a 7

  • Comment 107, posted at 17.02.16 22:54:49 by revolverocelot Reply

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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 104) : Pretty much agreed with your picks there…

  • Comment 108, posted at 18.02.16 07:31:02 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 106) : :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 109, posted at 18.02.16 07:31:58 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @revolverocelot (Comment 107) : That’s a good, unemotional summary… :grin:

  • Comment 110, posted at 18.02.16 07:33:27 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 93) : actually you did read your comment @The hound (Comment 70) :

  • Comment 111, posted at 18.02.16 10:37:41 by JD Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 103) : 100% correct. The players gets lifted to max high so the height (thighs to outstretched hands) of the lifted players will be added to the height that the lifters can lift the player.

  • Comment 112, posted at 18.02.16 10:46:30 by JD Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 94) : @50shadesofshark (Comment 95) : @pastorshark (Comment 102) : @Letgo (Comment 103) : @vanmartin (Comment 106) : @revolverocelot (Comment 107) : @robdylan (Comment 91) : ok let me give the perception of a hooker (as in rugby no2 not one on a street corner, not that I have anything against one of those just saying :twisted: ) yes a shorter player can play 4 lock (as he’s usually the mongrel in the pack of forwards) but usually the no 5 lock runs the lineouts and will be the main source of ball so he will be taller. Seeing as the Sharks lineout is already weak (with the hooker struggling to hit the jumpers) you need a specialist 5 lock to run the lineouts. When needed player like Dan, Deysel, Pottie, etc can add value as a replacement no 4 lock but guys that’s use to run the lineouts must be played at no5. So that’s my five cents worth, but all of this will play a zero % role in who plays lock for the Sharks as that will be determents by Mr. Gold and co!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Comment 113, posted at 18.02.16 11:02:51 by JD Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 54) : You wise owl you. :razz:

  • Comment 114, posted at 18.02.16 11:19:50 by Bump Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 80) : Rob, in my sons under 15 side, his number 5 lock is 2.00 meters tall. So the locks are getting taller all the time.

  • Comment 115, posted at 18.02.16 11:22:26 by Bump Reply

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  • My viewpoint is that you can get away with a 4 lock of 1.96m tall if you have tall loosies, if not you are going to get exposed at lineout time.

  • Comment 116, posted at 18.02.16 11:24:26 by Bump Reply

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  • @Bump (Comment 116) : I will repeat just one statistic from yesterday,Brad Thorne 1.95 metres.
    Please tell me one team in the world,club provincial or International, who would have balked at picking him at lock in his prime, because according to the collective coginisti on this site,he is too f……n short.

  • Comment 117, posted at 18.02.16 11:32:50 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 117) : He’s a 4 lock though. The ‘collective’ on this site are arguing that more height is to a lock’s advantage in the number 5 position. Time to let it go. Dan wants to focus on playing loosie anyway and I’m sure the Sharks would consider someone else as a stopgap at 5 before picking him.

  • Comment 118, posted at 18.02.16 11:59:21 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 118) : best of all is that none of this matters as the coach will decide who plays where!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Comment 119, posted at 18.02.16 12:15:50 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 119) : Why bother commenting on anything at all then.

  • Comment 120, posted at 18.02.16 12:25:57 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 121) : to make your case for dan being able to compete against 2.04m and taller no5 locks,you will need to do the maths for the fellow bloggers.find out his standing reach.compare that to his opponents.find out his vertical leap.compare that to his opponents.someone 8 cm shorter might very well have the same standing reach as his taller opponent.what is the difference in vertical leap?what is the standing reach of his lifters?what is the heighest they can lift him?how quick does it take them?
    read that lebron james at ± 2.03m 117kg has a max vertical leap of 42 inches!add that to his 8’9.5 standing reach.but that just shows the difference in athletic ability amongst the usa’s top athletes compared to the rest of the rugby playing world.

  • Comment 121, posted at 18.02.16 12:37:29 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 121) : You are obviously grossly under-utilised in your employment,if you had the time to even contemplate that never mind, compose that.

  • Comment 122, posted at 18.02.16 12:42:07 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 120) : it’s fine commenting on stuff but trying to convince everyone on the site (over and over again) that Dan would make a perfect no 5 because the Super rugby champions played with two short locks whilst it was already stated that he does not want to play lock is not commenting anymore!!!!!!!!

  • Comment 123, posted at 18.02.16 12:44:20 by JD Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 122) : dude, go for a walk. You’ve lost all perspective now and are actually just annoying people (not to mention making yourself look stupid)

  • Comment 124, posted at 18.02.16 12:48:08 by robdylan Reply
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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 121) : To answer your question Chad Le Clos with a much inferior reach and arm spread managed to take off behind and beat the much taller Michael Phelps to the wall, in the last Olympic games.
    @robdylan (Comment 124) : Exactly where have I lost perspective,go back to my initial comment at 6 ,i said play Dan with Lewies,never once did I suggest that he play 5,you asked me where he played at school and I said 5 which is true.You then said he was far too short to play lock,I gave you some stats on very successful short locks,you then made it about 5 locks which it never ever was.
    I am sorry if it hurts your sensitivities to be challenged,but some of your statements need to be.

  • Comment 125, posted at 18.02.16 13:08:42 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 125) : this is the first time in over 24 hours of pointless arguing that you have stated outright that you don’t see Dan as an option at 5.

    That is really all that anybody has been trying to get agreement on. This discussion started due to a lack of depth at 5 lock and you threw Dan’s name into the ring. A day later, we figure out that you want to use him as a 4 all along.

    Can’t blame me (and the rest) for getting confused.

    So here is my view.

    Could we use Dan at 5? NO
    Could we use Dan at 4? YES
    Should we use Dan at 4, given other options available and his stated preference for playing 8? NO
    Do we have a problem at 5? YES
    Is this discussion about Dan a MAJOR RED HERRING? YES

    Is that clear? Anything else you need to challenge at this point, or can we move on? We obviously won’t agree on point 3 above, but does it matter?

  • Comment 126, posted at 18.02.16 13:19:44 by robdylan Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 118) : I can see the argument for height in lineout jumping. But that’s as far as it goes. I think the “shorter” lock with the more compact frame and lower center of gravity could make a better line breaker and runner.

  • Comment 127, posted at 18.02.16 13:33:05 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 127) : I honestly don’t have anything personally invested in this particular tangent, I was simply trying to sum up why so many commentators care about the height of a 5 lock so that we could move on and be done with it. There are Impis to support dammit.

  • Comment 128, posted at 18.02.16 13:38:21 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 132) : the game is in pretoria.not that far from jhb.could have put it on supersport.viewers dont get to watch many varsity shield games.

  • Comment 129, posted at 18.02.16 13:55:57 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 127) : and what you now describes is a no 4 lock.

  • Comment 130, posted at 18.02.16 14:58:35 by JD Reply
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  • seems Pottie and Botha are in the same hospital and are swapping biltong late at night :)

  • Comment 131, posted at 18.02.16 16:41:34 by robdylan Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 125) : Hound, I don’t want to get you all riled up again, but if you read your own comment (no. 70) you did in fact categorically state that we need an iron man at FIVE and Dan is that man…those are your exact words not just suggesting but categorically stating Dan should play at 5. So you need to understand how Rob and others on this site understood your comments from that perspective. I take it we can now all agree that Dan could certainly play at 4. What everyone clearly doesn’t agree on is whether he should…

  • Comment 132, posted at 18.02.16 16:57:37 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 131) : if Twitter is not your source on that story I don’t want to know who is :grin:

  • Comment 133, posted at 18.02.16 17:34:15 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 133) : haha…. Facebook/Instagram :)

  • Comment 134, posted at 18.02.16 17:48:37 by robdylan Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 132) : appreciate that Pastor. Matthew 5:9 and all that. I just can’t seem to avoid getting into these silly spats!

    Anyway, time to move on, forgive and forget. The hound and I have far more in common than we have dividing us anyway.

    - we love GRRM’s work
    - we think the du Preez twins are awesome
    - we want the Sharks to win.

    That’s all that matters.

  • Comment 135, posted at 18.02.16 17:50:42 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 131) : where want to join the biltong eating ward!!!

  • Comment 136, posted at 18.02.16 18:42:52 by JD Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 132) : I also pointed it out to him but got no reply!?!?!

  • Comment 137, posted at 18.02.16 18:45:07 by JD Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 135) : I’m with you on the bottom two but who or what is GRRM?

  • Comment 138, posted at 18.02.16 18:48:53 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 138) : It’s the abbreviation of a Latin phrase that roughly translates to “one who procrastinates on the internet instead of finishing one’s fantasy series”.

    Yeah. Bitter fan checking in.

  • Comment 139, posted at 18.02.16 19:06:37 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 139) : preach!

    @JD (Comment 138) : George RR Martin. The middle bit stands for “When the hell RR you going to publish the next book???”

    He’s the guy who wrote the books on which the Game of Thrones TV series is loosely based.

  • Comment 140, posted at 18.02.16 19:10:58 by robdylan Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 139) : hahaha nice one!!! @robdylan (Comment 140) : OK must say I loved Game of Thrones but unfortunately missed a couple of seasons (but I’m planing to start watching it from season one).
    Before you start to tell me to read the books don’t bother I’m not into reading books for me it’s if the book is really good they’ll make a movie out of it and I’ll then watch the movie if they don’t make a movie out of it not means it’s a bad book so why bother reading it!!!

  • Comment 141, posted at 18.02.16 20:05:05 by JD Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 139) : :grin:

  • Comment 142, posted at 19.02.16 07:17:46 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 141) : Heathen! :grin:
    Haha, I love reading…the books are inevitably ALWAYS better than the movie! And besides…often, and especially with Game of Thrones, when you’ve watched the movie/series you still know as good as nothing about the book…they’re just that different…

  • Comment 143, posted at 19.02.16 07:20:08 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Here is my team that i would like mr Gold to select it against the kings…
    15 Le Roux
    14 JP/Mjekevu
    13 Jordan
    12 Esterhuizen
    11 Mvovo/Sbura
    10 Pieterson/Radebe
    9 Cobus
    8 Du Preez
    7 Du Preez
    6 Marcel (C)
    5 Andrews
    4 Oosthuizen
    3 Coenie
    2 Cooper
    1 Beast

  • Comment 144, posted at 20.02.16 16:14:25 by shakes Reply

    Under 19 player
     
  • @pastorshark (Comment 143) : I love reading Handyman or DIY books (and Sharksworld). I’m just not into reading “story” books.

  • Comment 145, posted at 21.02.16 13:45:02 by JD Reply
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  • @shakes (Comment 144) : That looks about right…the points of interest will be who he goes with at 10, 9 and 5…

  • Comment 146, posted at 21.02.16 19:19:13 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @shakes (Comment 144) : @pastorshark (Comment 146) : yes that should be close to the starting team.

  • Comment 147, posted at 21.02.16 20:12:35 by JD Reply
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  • @shakes (Comment 144) : Yeh id take that team

  • Comment 148, posted at 22.02.16 08:41:45 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • Adriaanse at 3,Claassens at 9,April/Pieterson 10

  • Comment 149, posted at 22.02.16 08:50:38 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 149) : I agree with your picks but somehow think Gold will go for Coenie, Cobus and Joe.

  • Comment 150, posted at 22.02.16 08:55:25 by JD Reply
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  • @shakes (Comment 144) : @pastorshark (Comment 146) : @SheldonK (Comment 148) : @The hound (Comment 149) : for me that team that Shakes “selected” should be very close to the starting team that Gold will pick. I just wonder how the bench will look as except for 1-2-3 & 9 the rest is wide open.

  • Comment 151, posted at 22.02.16 09:01:18 by JD Reply
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  • selecting a possible kings teams will be interesting.

  • Comment 152, posted at 22.02.16 09:06:23 by 50shadesofshark Reply

    Team captain
     
  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 152) : very interesting indeed!!!!!

  • Comment 153, posted at 22.02.16 09:57:57 by JD Reply
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