robdylan

Sharks unchanged for Stormers


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks, Super Rugby on 10 Mar 2016 at 10:28
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Gary Gold has stuck with his winning lineup for Saturday’s clash against the Stormers.

While there may have been temptation to tinker a little with the outfit after a less-than-perfect outing last week, the Sharks Director of Rugby clearly feels that there is more to gain from continuity at this stage. Handling errors and individual inaccuracy cost the Sharks on attack last week, but with their Argentine visitors committing easily as many knocks themselves, the Durban humidity would appear to be a plausible scapegoat; as much has been said in the media by some of the Sharks players this week.

I’m quite encouraged that this young team will be kept intact for the weekend’s match and we look forward to a great game between two old rivals.

Sharks: 15. Willie le Roux, 14. Odwa Ndungane, 13. Paul Jordaan, 12. Andre Esterhuizen, 11.JP Pietersen, 10. Joe Pietersen, 9. Cobus Reinach, 8. Daniel du Preez, 7. Jean-Luc du Preez, 6. Marcell Coetzee, 5. Stephan Lewies, 4. Etienne Oosthuizen, 3. Coenie Oosthuizen, 2. Franco Marais, 1. Tendai Mtawarira (c)
Replacements: 16. Kyle Cooper, 17. Juan Schoeman, 18. Lourens Adriaanse, 19. Hyron Andrews, 20. Philip van der Walt, 21. Michael Claassens, 22. Garth April, 23. S’bura Sithole



134 Comments

  • Good. How long before Thomas can play again?

  • Comment 1, posted at 10.03.16 10:30:19 by JarsonX Reply
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  • Shocking that Odwa is still there, personally butchering 10 points. The rest is debatable, but I am sorry, there is LITERALLY no excuse for Odwa.

  • Comment 2, posted at 10.03.16 10:30:33 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @JarsonX (Comment 1) : think he’s playing a warm up game tomorrow.

  • Comment 3, posted at 10.03.16 10:42:55 by JD Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 2) : Im also a bit bemused by the Odwa continued selection. Was clearly well outpaced last week and the wingers he will face this week are just as quick. As for the rest unchanged im fairly happy with that…although Van Der Walt and Claasens are pushing hard for a start.

  • Comment 4, posted at 10.03.16 10:43:07 by SheldonK Reply

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  • Brave call from Gold.. I personally would have dropped Odders for Sbu. Love the guy, but just don’t feel he is able to compete at this level anymore. The rest I am quite happy with.

  • Comment 5, posted at 10.03.16 10:43:30 by Another Nick Reply

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  • @Seth101 (Comment 2) : This is my personal opinion and I only saw this particular incident twice but I’m not convinced that a faster winger would have dotted down. The Jags used the tryline exceptionally well in that instance. I suspect a forward with a strong legdrive and a good reach who could force his way back infield may have come close but I reckon most wingers would have struggled there.

    Regarding the other five points, I don’t recall that instance very well but do remember that our cover defense was poor on a few occasions in that game.

    I do feel we’re very quick to point fingers at Odwa when things go wrong (same goes for Reinach to a lesser degree) because we want someone to blame when it may at times be a team failure. So I guess I’m playing devil’s advocate here. To reiterate though, the above is personal opinion, so I’m completely open to other views on this.

  • Comment 6, posted at 10.03.16 10:44:05 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Wow…no Mvovo..are we sure about that? We are not strong at wing. JPP worries me. Let’s hope Robert worked on Cobus during the week cause he was pathetic on Saturday.

  • Comment 7, posted at 10.03.16 10:44:24 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • reckon this is last chance saloon for the dreadlocked wonder. Shot at redemption? Maybe he surprises us.

    I’d be very surprised if we get to see wings running in space much this weekend.

  • Comment 8, posted at 10.03.16 10:44:46 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 2) : maybe Mvovo is still not 100% so Odwa must play but for sure can’t see why he’s still in the starting 15!!!!!!!!

  • Comment 9, posted at 10.03.16 10:44:50 by JD Reply
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  • @Another Nick (Comment 5) : Are we absolutely certain that the coaches consider Sbu a specialist at right wing? They may feel comfortable having him as cover there but perhaps they’re only planning to start him on the left.

  • Comment 10, posted at 10.03.16 10:46:23 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 4) : And the thing is you can’t use him having a bad game as an excuse. He can have the best game of his life, he is not all of a sudden going to have his pace from 15 years ago come back.

  • Comment 11, posted at 10.03.16 10:46:28 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 8) : Guys, JPP is more of a concern than Odwa. I feel that is were the questions should come from. When was the last time JPP contributed positively to the Sharks? It’s been years.

  • Comment 12, posted at 10.03.16 10:48:28 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 6) : He was facing our try line, already in motion, about 5-10m ahead of anyone else. Not only was he over taken by the eventual try scorer, he was also over taken by his own team mates.
    @JD (Comment 9) : Can you imagine Sitholes confidence knowing Odwa is considered better than him.

  • Comment 13, posted at 10.03.16 10:48:53 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 7) : don’t think Lwazi is quite ready for this week.

  • Comment 14, posted at 10.03.16 10:49:55 by robdylan Reply
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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 12) : Extreme over exaggeration. Can’t use last year as an example because how many players did play well last year? Year before he was sublime.
    You don’t get named the best center in Japan for no reason, let’s maybe give him at least more than 1 game back?

  • Comment 15, posted at 10.03.16 10:51:04 by Seth101 Reply
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  • I like the continuity but was expecting some tweaks.

    I seem to be in the minority here, but if changes were to be made I would of made these changes before Odwa: JP, Reinach and Daniel duP.

  • Comment 16, posted at 10.03.16 10:51:31 by stevovo Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 10) : I think Sbu is quite comfortable at either wing or centre. He has the pace and size to make sure we keep the Stormers backs at bay. If ft, obviously Mvovo would be first prize. Him, JP and Willie the back 3.

  • Comment 17, posted at 10.03.16 10:52:37 by Another Nick Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 6) : for the Jags first try, the engineered a two-on-one situation. Watching it in real time, I was convinced Odwa screwed up by not shifting, because it appeared he and Jordaan tackled the same guy. Looking again from a different angle, you could see that Jordaan was actually nowhere enar the man and Odwa HAD to make a decision because he faced a 2-on-1 against him. He did what you should do in this case, which is try to go for the ball. He missed and the man he tackled got the ball away to an unmarked man on the outside, who made plenty of yards before Pietersen caught him on the cover.

    I don’t feel Odwa was working hard enough to get back after the incident, but as you say, there were some bad failures on the scramble from many of the guys, not just Odwa.

  • Comment 18, posted at 10.03.16 10:53:02 by robdylan Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 6) : personally I like Odwa and think he’s a great person and player, but in all fairness this year Odwa seems slow on attack and defence.

  • Comment 19, posted at 10.03.16 10:54:03 by JD Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 13) : Fair enough, as mentioned I don’t recall that try very well but it still begs the question where was our cover defense in that play?

    Regarding Sbu’s confidence knowing Odwa is starting ahead of him, are you absolutely sure the coaches consider Sbu a right wing?

  • Comment 20, posted at 10.03.16 10:55:40 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 20) : Watching it again, I am being a little harsh, Odwa started almost directly in line with the Argies players. Will try get a gif.

  • Comment 21, posted at 10.03.16 11:01:15 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Another Nick (Comment 17) : I think you’re right that Sbu may be comfortable on either wing but my question is are we sure that the coaches are comfortable starting him there? I’d love to get some insight into their opinion on this.

    @robdylan (Comment 18) : Workrate issues are unacceptable whether you’re slow or fast so if the call is to give someone else a chance because of poor workrate I can’t argue against that. But as you point out we do still need to ask questions about team defensive structures being exploited and not just lump all blame on an individual (even though he may need to shoulder some of that blame)

  • Comment 22, posted at 10.03.16 11:02:30 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Some are overtly harsh on Odwa :roll:

  • Comment 23, posted at 10.03.16 11:04:29 by JarsonX Reply
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  • Glad the coaches are starting with Dan for two reasons, 1 – dropping him would have dented his confidence and made him unsure on how to play and 2 – he will have a point to prove this weekend and I am sure he will make his point.

    Regarding Odwa, come now, hang up the boots and enjoy watching the game. He has been a great servant, but this is professional sport and the weak will be shown up.

  • Comment 24, posted at 10.03.16 11:05:41 by Vonno13 Reply
     
  • @JarsonX (Comment 23) : Perhaps but I do think there are valid points raised on both sides of the argument. I think the selection of Odwa may perhaps also tell us a bit about the gameplan they’re hoping to employ?

  • Comment 25, posted at 10.03.16 11:08:34 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Although Odwa did not have the greatest game last weekend, and although he’s not exactly a speed merchant anymore, there is another factor that no one has taken into consideration yet. Have a look at how often over the last few seasons he’s been the one making a try-scoring pass, and you may feel less negative about having him in the team. Generally speaking his positional play and work rate is good enough to compensate for his deficiencies elsewhere, which is more than you can say of JPP of late.

  • Comment 26, posted at 10.03.16 11:10:29 by Culling Song Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 11) : I have nothing personally against Odwa. I think he is a true professional. Has very good skills and a usually high work rate. However, he has lost a lot of pace…cant deny that. His workrate has also started to decline…when last did you see him run off the shoulder of the 10 or 12? He also has struggled to make those cover tackles. Now if he was a youngster like Sithole who also has deficiencies but has serious pace i could perhaps give him more time to improve.

  • Comment 27, posted at 10.03.16 11:12:14 by SheldonK Reply

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  • looking at try number 1 again, a few more thoughts.

    1 – Jordaan was lucky as hell not to get a yellow card because he pulled a man back just as he was about to receive the inside pass.
    2- The Jaguares created a classic overlap and used it well. Creevy was the extra man – Jordaan fixed him, but then Creevy was skipped, leaving Odwa to cover two men. Jags had another man running behind as well, so created plenty of doubt there.
    3- Odw wasn’t the only guy who was beaten for pace on the cover. Jordaan, Reinach and le Roux were all beaten too and Odwa covered easily 5m more ground than Jordaan in the same time. Go look at it. These two shots are about 3 secs apart.

    https://gyazo.com/87aaf26ca01cb3d92aab07b5e165f209

    https://gyazo.com/b632df86e006d5c7f2ffa30620dc6479

  • Comment 28, posted at 10.03.16 11:13:33 by robdylan Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 27) : Wikipedia has him at 93kgs, somehow I doubt that is accurate. He doesn’t have the pace or the size to run off the 10. There for his only use is out wide, which he has proven to be to slow for.

  • Comment 29, posted at 10.03.16 11:15:39 by Seth101 Reply
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  • http://giphy.com/gifs/3ornjZrPb5AnBcbJAc

    The gif of it, sorry for the poor quality.

  • Comment 30, posted at 10.03.16 11:18:45 by Seth101 Reply
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  • Just for clarification, Rob is talking about try one (I agree with him), I am talking about try 2.

  • Comment 31, posted at 10.03.16 11:20:31 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 30) : So Odwa starts in line with one Argie player (who doesn’t get involved) another two catch up from about 20m behind, the try scorer manages to over take.

    The Sharks player already back was a prop I think, JL can’t keep up at all, and Jordaan tries to catch up from mid field.

  • Comment 32, posted at 10.03.16 11:22:55 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 29) : He is quite a tall guy so i could imagine him in the low 90s. But if he isnt running off the 10/12 then whats this high workrate people refer to? I think its tough to blame one guy for tries scored against a team but when they keep happening on the one wing you have to ask questions. Stats from the past make for great books but if you look at the here and now..which wingers would an opposition coach but more fearful of…Odwa or JPP, Sithole, Mjekevu, Nkosi etc?

  • Comment 33, posted at 10.03.16 11:23:39 by SheldonK Reply

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  • Try number 2 – again, Odwa covered a phenomenal amount of ground and had Bofelli well marked.

    here’s where he started:

    https://gyazo.com/747403a6291064b992853cfadaf962cd

    Here’s where he ended up:

    https://gyazo.com/c26b0e49019b344da50626deb3ff83f0

    And kept up with him all the way:

    https://gyazo.com/005191e8f6668a9f4e163d4304d27227

    Problem was Cordero coming up on the inside outpaced everyone. So fine to say Odwa wasn’t fast enough, but he kept with the man he was marking.

    Given that the Sharks were 15 against 13 at this stage, where were the other defenders? I saw Odwa and Coenie in hte frame, but where were Jordaan and le Roux?

    Bear in mind that the try wouldn’t have been scored if Dan du Preez had known which arm to carry the ball in. Went into contact with the ball leading, so not surprising that it popped out when he took the hit.

    I don’t like blaming individuals for tries scored in a team environment, but if we’re going to do it, let’s blame the correct one, at least.

  • Comment 34, posted at 10.03.16 11:28:52 by robdylan Reply
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  • I think we need to accept a harsh truth here. If you use your fullback as your key strike weapon on attack, you are always going to be vulnerable against these sort of long-range tries if you turn the ball over. Truth be told, our fullback was out of position when both tries were scored.

  • Comment 35, posted at 10.03.16 11:31:05 by robdylan Reply
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  • Think this is a classic case of Gold heading into uncharted waters,it is so long that he has had a team that won 4 in a row that he is shit scared of changing anything.
    Reinarch and Odwa should make way for Claassens and Mvovu,and on last weeks performance Sibura deserves a start ahead of J.P .

  • Comment 36, posted at 10.03.16 11:37:43 by The hound Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 35) : Yeh i think we need to remember that both tries were scored after the Sharks were in full on attack mode…knock on created turnover and try scored out wide. I always think its harsh to blame one person for a try being scored. However, i must point out that when Dan broke through , which led to the 2nd try, both LeRoux and Jordaan were flying up on his left which he saw and then decided to go right and then knocked it on. Odwa wasnt up with play when Dan knocked it on and then he also was caught for pace going back trying to stop the try. So whilst blaming him for the try is harsh…what was he doing in all that time? Standing still?

  • Comment 37, posted at 10.03.16 11:38:18 by SheldonK Reply

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  • Sharks by 10,
    #Claasens must start

  • Comment 38, posted at 10.03.16 11:39:59 by The hound Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 34) : Blaming individuals for one error is not great, but perfectly justified when there is a trend.

    What your images don’t show is just how much further back the players were when they started, the player in line with Odwa at the start did nothing. He is in a position built around pace, and doesn’t have it..

  • Comment 39, posted at 10.03.16 11:41:16 by Seth101 Reply
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  • People odwa is not the only one who had a bad game. Daniel kept losing the ball and they scored from that in one instance but people are willing to give him a go again,so why not odwa? Give him a chance to redeem himself like everyone is getting that chance extend it to him as well

  • Comment 40, posted at 10.03.16 11:41:33 by Poisy Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 15) : Don’t even look far. Last weekend?

  • Comment 41, posted at 10.03.16 11:42:03 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 37) : the still I shared showed just how much ground Odwa covered. So no, he wasn’t standing still :)

    He scrambled back better than anyone else did, anyway. And as the right wing, he marked the correct player all the way.

  • Comment 42, posted at 10.03.16 11:42:08 by robdylan Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 36) : I think Mvovo still injured. I do agree that Claasens, Van Der Walt and Sithole(to lesser degree) are pushing hard for a starting spot. Having won the last 2 though i can see why he wants to push consistency a bit more…but lets see how this sticking to one side pans out in the next few weeks

  • Comment 43, posted at 10.03.16 11:43:12 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Poisy (Comment 40) : Take the goggles off mate, go look at the previous article at how many people called for Dan to be benched.

    Agree that players need second chance, but while you can play better, you can’t become faster.

  • Comment 44, posted at 10.03.16 11:45:07 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 42) : Yes he kept pace with his wing going back..but where was he in support of Dan on attack? He is meant to have a high workrate to compensate for his speed? Im not too concerned about him getting back as Cordero’s speed and the turnover position meant the rest of our backs were way out of position. I just wonder if Odwa was up with play like Jordaan and LeRoux were on left would he have been able to shut down the Dan knockon before it became a foot race. The again if Dan had just passed or even kicked left Joe Pieterson would have been kicking a conversion from under the poles…

  • Comment 45, posted at 10.03.16 11:48:27 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Seth101 (Comment 39) : and yet he covered more ground and perfectly kept pace with his opposite number.

    So can we conclude that Bofelli doesn’t have pace either? Was he not running as fast as he could to try score that try?

  • Comment 46, posted at 10.03.16 11:49:15 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 44) : but he wasn’t dropped was he? And most people seem to be okay with him getting another shot so why not odwa than? That is the point I’m trying to make, I also called for odwa to be dropped but he wasn’t its not a train smash he gets another chance people need to stop bitching about him now! We get it he looked slow now get over it complaining won’t change anything but maybe he will do well this weekend

  • Comment 47, posted at 10.03.16 11:49:47 by Poisy Reply
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  • @Poisy (Comment 40) : You yourself called for Dan to start in your first comment? :lol:

  • Comment 48, posted at 10.03.16 11:49:54 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Poisy (Comment 47) : I am not, I think he should be benched, but I think Odwas case is far less defend-able. But in my personal opinion neither Dan nor Odwa should be starting.

  • Comment 49, posted at 10.03.16 11:51:02 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 48) : yes and I wanted odwa dropped. They both started. Most people wanted dan dropped too

  • Comment 50, posted at 10.03.16 11:52:33 by Poisy Reply
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  • Some interesting debate on the go which leads me to two questions that I assume only the coaches know:
    1. How much slower is Odwa over 40m and 100m compared to our other wings?
    2. Do the coaches see Sbu as a specialist left wing, in similar vein to Mvovo?

  • Comment 51, posted at 10.03.16 11:52:44 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Both Odwa and Dan played well against the Kings. You don’t drop anyone for one bad game. Terrible for team confidence.

  • Comment 52, posted at 10.03.16 11:52:47 by MikeSebMatt Reply

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  • @MikeSebMatt (Comment 52) : Odwa looked good on the receiving end of great team play and a lot of space.

    Both games the Van Der Walt has been better than Dan, regardless of how well Dan played.

  • Comment 53, posted at 10.03.16 11:55:57 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Poisy (Comment 50) : Do you honestly prefer Odwa to start ahead of S’bura,

  • Comment 54, posted at 10.03.16 11:57:13 by The hound Reply
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  • I think we’re disappearing down a rabbit hole here. I’m largely to blame, of course :)

  • Comment 55, posted at 10.03.16 11:58:21 by robdylan Reply
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  • I think Gold is sending out the right signal. Look at our depth though. You could make 6 or 7 changes to this team without weakening it.

  • Comment 56, posted at 10.03.16 12:01:33 by MikeSebMatt Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 42) : Again..why is the focus on Odwa? I have no problem with him. My challenge is JPP’s commitment to the Sharks jersey. For the Boks during the RWC he played well. That’s the JPP I want back. But for some guys to question Odwa’s commitment to the jersey. No. Many wings would have also been exposed.

  • Comment 57, posted at 10.03.16 12:01:35 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 57) : Maybe you are the only one going on about JP, because you are the only one willing to judge a guy on his first game back?

  • Comment 58, posted at 10.03.16 12:03:36 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 57) : I agree and disagree :)

    I agree that Odwa played better than JP on balance. I do think that we need to be a bit patient with JP, though and not discard him after one lacklustre game. He’s going to murder those little Stormers wingers in the air this week. At least, I hope so!

  • Comment 59, posted at 10.03.16 12:05:29 by robdylan Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 54) : no, but I’m not gonna complain he gets another chance,since last saturday odwa has been blamed for a lot,I don’t feel that’s fair treatment. People are just picking on him now over and over again,he doesn’t pick himself people should start picking on the coaches that pick him.

  • Comment 60, posted at 10.03.16 12:07:10 by Poisy Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 55) : going…………. going……………. gone!!!!!!!!!!! :shock: :twisted:

  • Comment 61, posted at 10.03.16 12:07:31 by JD Reply
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  • I think Sithole dropping the first ball that came his way last weekend didnt do him any favours…even if others were knocking on too. First impressions as they say. Odwa getting an extended run for past good deeds, fair enough…i just feel there are more explosive guys. Van Der Walt has been good off the bench but Dan DuPReez has also done a hell of a lot right in the time he has had on the field. Yes he has knocked on a few…it happens…he is young and id rather him have trying than just playing passively. So overall no problem with this side. Although hope April gets some time off the bench this week…even that new Rhino mascot got more time of the field than him last week :)

  • Comment 62, posted at 10.03.16 12:09:50 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Poisy (Comment 60) : I think Rob would have a hernia if we all started picking on Gold again :mrgreen: :lol:

  • Comment 63, posted at 10.03.16 12:10:11 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 59) : having Odwa and JPP on the wings cross kicks could work as both are really good in the air!

  • Comment 64, posted at 10.03.16 12:11:11 by JD Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 53) : Agreed.

  • Comment 65, posted at 10.03.16 12:11:53 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 45) : Trying to stay out of the whole debate – but to answer your question on why Odwa wasn’t up in support of Dan, that has nothing to do with pace.

    Odwa made the initial surge and offloaded to Jean-Luc as he was being tackled, and JL in turn fed his brother to make the break up field. So Odwa was on the floor, no amount of pace would have seen him supporting Dan

  • Comment 66, posted at 10.03.16 12:13:01 by Shakes34 Reply

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  • @Shakes34 (Comment 66) : Correct.

  • Comment 67, posted at 10.03.16 12:15:25 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 58) : When was the last time he delivered in a Sharks jersey. If you can answer me that I will be silenced. If he was player of the tournament in Japan did he look like that player last week? Let’s see him this weekend. I pray that hungry committed JPP pitches up.

  • Comment 68, posted at 10.03.16 12:15:26 by GreatSharksays Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 34) : seeing Omar’s reaction after the try I’m sure glad I was not a part of this weeks Sharks training sessions!!!!!!!! :shock:

  • Comment 69, posted at 10.03.16 12:15:41 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 69) : That was classic…he took it personally.

  • Comment 70, posted at 10.03.16 12:16:30 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • @JD (Comment 69) : Bak-oond pappa :mrgreen:

  • Comment 71, posted at 10.03.16 12:16:34 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Poisy (Comment 60) : Howzit man, the reason I say do not drop Dan but drop Odwa completely, is that Dan is very young. If Odwa were 20 or even 27,28 I would not say he should be dropped. My issue, since last year already, is that Odwa is not the best wing in KZN. He has done his time and has played a lot of rugby, he is getting on and it is clear to see. Yes, Dan did not have a great game, but it was purely based on him dropping the ball in vital areas, his work rate was good and he was trying in many instances to be innovative. I just think it is time for Odwa to step aside, I am worried a guy like Sithole gets gatval and ends up leaving the Union.

  • Comment 72, posted at 10.03.16 12:18:30 by Vonno13 Reply
     
  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 70) : @vanmartin (Comment 71) : He really looked pissed!!!!!!!!!! Don’t think Monday’s practice was fun!!!

  • Comment 73, posted at 10.03.16 12:20:02 by JD Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 35) : The first, in particular, was concerning as it wasn’t really turn-over ball as such.

    We hoofed a half-arm penalty straight up the middle of the field, they took it through a phase or two then found that overlap. No reason for the fullback to be nowhere on defence.

    The second was pretty helter skelter so more forgivable in my books.

  • Comment 74, posted at 10.03.16 12:20:38 by Shakes34 Reply

    Shakes34Under 21 player
     
  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 68) : I told you above, 2014 was a sublime season for him, 2015 is unfair to rate him because the whole team was poor.

    JPP vs Odwa 2014

    1 Tries 2
    5 Points 10
    63 Carries 35
    374 Metres 275
    5 Clean Breaks 3
    16 Defenders Beaten 4
    9 Offloads 2
    0 Try Assists 0
    37 Passes 16
    21 Open play kicks 6
    1 Lineout catches 0

  • Comment 75, posted at 10.03.16 12:21:33 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 68) : think we all hope that the hunger returns to JPP as in top form he is really good! One thing to remember is that he played 13 in Japan and now he’s back on the wing. As a prop/hooker I’m not sure but I do think it could take one or two games to get up to speed with playing wing again.

  • Comment 76, posted at 10.03.16 12:23:49 by JD Reply
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  • JPP vs Odwa 2012

    6 Tries 1
    30 Points 5
    122 Carries 28
    608 Metres 165
    10 Clean Breaks 2
    23 Defenders Beaten 2
    18 Offloads 2
    1 Try Assists 1
    60 Passes 19
    19 Open play kicks 6

  • Comment 77, posted at 10.03.16 12:23:59 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 75) : “1 Lineout catches 0″ ????????????? you sure about this one????????

  • Comment 78, posted at 10.03.16 12:25:42 by JD Reply
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  • JPP worries me on the left. last week he was consistantly coming of his defensive channel creating a gaping hole on the left. Other guys had to scramble to plug that hole

  • Comment 79, posted at 10.03.16 12:25:54 by sudhir Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @JD (Comment 78) : Never seen a wing catch a wayward lineout throw? :lol:
    To answer your question, yes its a solid site in terms of it’s accuracy so somehow it must have happened :mrgreen:

  • Comment 80, posted at 10.03.16 12:27:22 by Seth101 Reply
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  • Stuck record I know but I would worry more about the lazy Pietersen. JP. first prize is Lwazi and sbura but if that can’t be I would settle for Lwazi and Odwa. If you don’t do the work why do you get the starting berth JP?

  • Comment 81, posted at 10.03.16 12:28:17 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • Odwa was a lot better than JP last year

    JPP vs Odwa 2015

    0 Tries 5
    0 Points 25
    57 Carries 71
    238 Metres 493
    6 Clean Breaks 14
    9 Defenders Beaten 11
    8 Offloads 12
    1 Try Assists 4
    33 Passes 42
    10 Open play kicks 14

  • Comment 82, posted at 10.03.16 12:29:31 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 80) : geez how wayward was that throw? :shock: Sounds almost as bad as this past weekend when a team had a penalty kick for goal and nearly scored a try in the corner!

  • Comment 83, posted at 10.03.16 12:32:06 by JD Reply
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  • Sithole vs Mvovo 2015
    2 Tries 5
    10 Points 25
    65 Carries 86
    392 Metres 662
    9 Clean Breaks 13
    18 Defenders Beaten 23
    11 Offloads 8
    1 Try Assists 0
    24 Passes 24
    3 Open play kicks 10

    Note Sithole played 9 games vs Mvovos 16.

    This for me is the best starting wing combo.

  • Comment 84, posted at 10.03.16 12:35:15 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Shakes34 (Comment 66) : That answers my question on why he wasnt there to support…thanks

  • Comment 85, posted at 10.03.16 12:37:08 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Seth101 (Comment 84) : al of this is ok but it’s still only on attack, how the player do with regards to defence? I don’t like just taking stats as a fact to prove who is better as their is so much more to rugby with regards to drawing players, running lines, etc without even receiving the ball that can open up space for other players to go and score but there’s no stats for that and on defence one player may give it all to try and make “impossible” cover tackles just to try to stop opponents where other player would just not both to get back or try to attempt a tackle. Glad I’m not mr. Gold!!!!!!

  • Comment 86, posted at 10.03.16 12:46:38 by JD Reply
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  • Interesting the number of people that rate Odwa. Wonder how people would rate all the Sharks wings in order of preference…could be interesting

  • Comment 87, posted at 10.03.16 12:49:18 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 86) : Don’t disagree, can only work with what i can find unfortunately. But some stats give a better idea than none, by no means black and white though.

  • Comment 88, posted at 10.03.16 12:49:19 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 86) :
    Defense

    JP vs Odwa 2015

    57 Tackles 31
    12 Missed Tackles 22
    82.6% Tackles Success 58.5%
    12 Turnovers Conceded 25
    0 Yellow cards 0
    0 Red cards 0

    2014

    47 Tackles 9
    17 Missed Tackles 1
    73.4% Tackles Success 90%
    8 Turnovers Conceded 16
    0 Yellow cards 0
    0 Red cards 0

    2013

    43 Tackles 21
    13 Missed Tackles 7
    76.8% Tackles Success 75%
    1 Turnovers Conceded 5
    1 Yellow cards 0
    0 Red cards 0

  • Comment 89, posted at 10.03.16 12:55:36 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 87) :

    MVOVO
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    :)

  • Comment 90, posted at 10.03.16 12:57:14 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • @Seth101 (Comment 89) : @GreatSharksays (Comment 68) : JPP has been our best wing in defense as far back as I could be arsed to check.

  • Comment 91, posted at 10.03.16 12:57:43 by Seth101 Reply
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  • Did some digging since this seems to only be bothering me. We can probably however all agree that the left and right wings fulfil different roles, yes? So how many senior games has Sbu started on the right wing?

    If Vodacom Cup is counted too then it’s 4, otherwise only 2:
    - 2013 Vodacom Cup: Sharks XV vs Boland: http://www.sharksworld.co.za/2013/04/12/vodacom-cup-sharks-xv-v-boland/
    - 2013 Vodacom Cup: Kings vs Sharks XV: http://www.sharksworld.co.za/2013/04/20/vodacom-cup-ep-kings-v-sharks-xv/
    - 2014 Currie Cup: Sharks vs Lions: http://www.sharksworld.co.za/2014/10/03/absa-currie-cup-sharks-v-lions-jb270/
    - 2015 Super Rugby: Sharks vs Bulls: http://www.sharksworld.co.za/2015/04/18/super-rugby-2015-sharks-v-bulls/

    To answer my own question – I highly doubt that Sbu is considered a right wing based on the above. I don’t think we should expect to see both him and Mvovo starting in the same side unless injury-enforced. Hope I’m wrong though as I’d be very curious to see what the two of them could do in a proper running game of rugby.

  • Comment 92, posted at 10.03.16 13:00:35 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 90) : LIKE

  • Comment 93, posted at 10.03.16 13:06:57 by Culling Song Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 90) : Who is the smiley faced oke? He is next in line…when will he get his chance dammit!!

  • Comment 94, posted at 10.03.16 13:28:13 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • The Sharks need to win if for no other reason than to zip the flies of all the stormers fan boys on keo and rugby 365 and Vodacomrugby.co.za and front row grunt. Literally all the stories are about fleck this and Coleman that and kibbles and that homunculus playing for them; bla bla bla. It’s like all these professional rugby scribes have a permanent date night with the stormers; it’s really irritating

  • Comment 95, posted at 10.03.16 14:26:46 by SeanJeff Reply
    Author
    SeanJeffSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Seth101 (Comment 91) : thanx that’s some interesting reading.

  • Comment 96, posted at 10.03.16 15:00:59 by JD Reply
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  • Not having Mvovo available unfortunately gives the Stormers the advantage out wide. They have some real speed in the back 3.

  • Comment 97, posted at 10.03.16 15:20:12 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 10) : jpp is the bok right wing.

  • Comment 98, posted at 10.03.16 15:57:39 by 50shadesofshark Reply

    Team captain
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 92) : jpp is starting and he is the bok right wing.

  • Comment 99, posted at 10.03.16 15:59:27 by 50shadesofshark Reply

    Team captain
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 92) : “We can probably however all agree that the left and right wings fulfil different roles, yes? ” .please explain the different roles they fulfill?

  • Comment 100, posted at 10.03.16 16:03:19 by 50shadesofshark Reply

    Team captain
     
  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 100) : Its a bit old school but generally your left wing is more of the attacking player and finisher whilst your right wing is the better defensive player. This is down to players preference/ability to pass better to their left than to their right. This thinking is changing though and both wings need to be equally good at attack and defense.

  • Comment 101, posted at 10.03.16 16:12:35 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 101) : both leyds and zas are 1.85m tall.anyway,just dont hope the sharks go down to newlands to make it a kick-and-catch contest between the back 3s.want to think the sharks can back themselves to create continuity in attack and score tries.

  • Comment 102, posted at 10.03.16 16:25:04 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • Imo jordaan can be our match winner here.

  • Comment 103, posted at 10.03.16 16:33:08 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 87) : mvovo jpp sithole odwa mjekevu.

  • Comment 104, posted at 10.03.16 16:46:22 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 100) : @SheldonK (Comment 101) : at school boy level (especially primary school) you will find that the left wing is usually the fast wing as he will receive more clean balls due to skills of players passing better to one side than the other.

  • Comment 105, posted at 10.03.16 17:00:32 by JD Reply
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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 99) : yeah, not sure what your point is though?

    @50shadesofshark (Comment 100) : http://lmgtfy.com/?q=rugby+left+wing+vs+right+wing

  • Comment 106, posted at 10.03.16 17:31:45 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 106) : jpp and willie should have a better understanding with jpp at right wing since that is the only team to my knowledge they have played together for.which leaves sithole to play at 11.

  • Comment 107, posted at 10.03.16 17:53:06 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • holy SHIT but this is a useful resource.

    http://www.betterrugbycoaching.com/rugbyforum/Forum4-1.aspx

  • Comment 108, posted at 10.03.16 18:40:03 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 108) : useful in relation to?

  • Comment 109, posted at 10.03.16 19:43:00 by JD Reply
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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 107) : JPP played a lot of his earlier rugby at left wing for the Sharks with Odders on the right so maybe the coaches feel more comfortable playing him there right now as opposed to giving Sbu a start. Maybe it’s a selection for a specific gameplan. I guess it’s easy to tell that I’m just grasping at straws here.

  • Comment 110, posted at 10.03.16 21:19:39 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 110) : odwa is in his 12th season at the sharks,so he has a lot of experience.

  • Comment 111, posted at 10.03.16 21:31:17 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 110) : @50shadesofshark (Comment 111) : hopefully on Saturday both Odwa and JPP will show us why Gold still start them!!

  • Comment 112, posted at 10.03.16 22:00:44 by JD Reply
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  • @SeanJeff (Comment 95) : :grin:

  • Comment 113, posted at 11.03.16 01:04:06 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 87) : Mvovo Sithole Odwa Mjekevu JP

  • Comment 114, posted at 11.03.16 06:13:10 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 101) : That’s all relevant to where the breakdown or the set piece is and who has the ball.

  • Comment 115, posted at 11.03.16 06:16:24 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 102) : I dont see why there is any reason for the Sharks to change the way they have been playing this year. If we not good enough to win playing the way we have we been playing then we probably are the 2nd best team.

  • Comment 116, posted at 11.03.16 08:16:41 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 115) : Im not sure i get what you mean? How does the breakdown/set piece position determine which winger should be on which side? Just curious

  • Comment 117, posted at 11.03.16 08:18:30 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 105) : At primary school level the no.8 is also usually the largest guy as he touches the ball the most and can streamroll the smaller guys. Primary school rugby is a bit of a problem in my opinion…i think primary schools should be playing rugby league…then watch the players basic skills improve from that age

  • Comment 118, posted at 11.03.16 08:20:58 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 118) : for me it’s a huge problem! The rugby league idea is interesting and could work but in SA I can’t see it happening. For me the answer is to play in age groups BUT with a size/weight limit. this will stop coaches relying on the “big kid” to win the game for them and will force them to start concentrate on skills, etc.

  • Comment 119, posted at 11.03.16 10:41:46 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 119) : haha have you met parents these days? Good luck telling them their kid is too heavy to play in this division etc. Schools will need good lawyers! Why i say league rules is that it then means no rucks and scrums really so players running/passing ability has to improve..as does their man on man defense.

  • Comment 120, posted at 11.03.16 10:49:39 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 120) : age/size/weight group rugby must be part of the rules so no parents can say anything about it. I know it will not be easy to change and will get huge opposition but things must change as the size of some kids are getting really scary!

  • Comment 121, posted at 11.03.16 11:37:06 by JD Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 118) : I really like that idea.

  • Comment 122, posted at 11.03.16 11:38:59 by Ben Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 121) : haha doesnt matter what the rules say if you tell a parent their kid is too heavy for that division you will have a problem. Maybe not from all parents but a good majority. Trust me with a wife thats a teacher i know all to well that parents make a much bigger fuss over smaller things than their kids weight compared to his peers.

  • Comment 123, posted at 11.03.16 12:04:39 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 123) : but why should it be a problem?the decision is made and it is implemented: u45kg u 55kg etc.no-one is calling any child obese or underweight.that is a seperate issue altogether for the parent(s) to discuss with a suitably qualified person.

  • Comment 124, posted at 11.03.16 12:22:28 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 124) : haha you clearly have no idea what these parents are like. For those boys of the same age and weight not a problem. But when little johnny is 10 and cant play with his 10yr old classmates etc because he is actually in the 13yr old weight class then it will be a problem trust me.

  • Comment 125, posted at 11.03.16 12:29:32 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 123) : @50shadesofshark (Comment 124) : I know the problems and trust me I do know parents but for the safety of the children something must be done. Nothing against your wife but I also know teachers and there will be just as much if not more complaints from coaches/teachers because all of a sudden they will have to change the way they coach because “little Giant” is no longer available to just run over opponents so winning games will be harder (for some).

  • Comment 126, posted at 11.03.16 12:51:57 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 126) : I do get what you say about negative feedback coming from both parents and teachers/coaches. The main problem exists at primary school 1st team level…the lower age groups nobody really cares who wins so more emphasis there on the kids just playing. The problem with saying a kid is too big to play u13 primary school is then where does he play? Thats where the biggest problem is and no easy solution.

  • Comment 127, posted at 11.03.16 13:10:46 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 127) : look it’s not going to be easy and even if we agree the biggest problem I see is to get the rugby administrators to involved and to approve it. As for the problem you raised the player would move up to under 14, thus meaning he will practice and play for a high school side. In most of the cases he would have been playing with/against them for a year or two already so should not be as big a problem as he would just move up another group with them. Here it happens when a boy is in grade 7 but under 14 he picks a high school and if makes the team he plays for them.

  • Comment 128, posted at 11.03.16 14:27:12 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 128) : It certainly gets a lot trickier than just saying play in weight groups. You could very easily get to the stage where high schools try poach the bigger local kids early so they can play for them before they decide to go to boarding school away. Likewise a smaller high school pupils could possibly still play with primary school kids. Would you also have different weight categories per position or forwards and backs? If a kid is too heavy to play backline he can then just move to forward. The lines become very blurred. Hence i suggested they play league rugby…yes you still have to tackle the bigger kids but such is life and the rules do promote more of a running game.

  • Comment 129, posted at 11.03.16 14:40:03 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 129) : yes it’s a great idea and will really help the kids with skills but to be totally honest league rugby almost have 0% following in SA so can’t see anyone buying into changing school rugby from union to league.
    The idea of playing in age groups will still remain exactly as it’s now, the only change is there will be a weight/size limit for each age group eg u9/max 30kg, u11/max 50kg, u13/max 70kg, u14/max 80kg, u16/max 100kg,u19/max unlimited. Players can’t play “down” if their to light as there is no minimum weight/size but will automatically move up if at say the beginning of the season they’re to big.
    But like I said we can talk about it all we want it will not change unless the power that be also sees it as a problem and start to change and that is where I personally see the problem as parents/teachers/coaches forms part of these “powers that be” and is unlikely to change something that works for them!

  • Comment 130, posted at 11.03.16 15:21:52 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 130) : See i wouldnt change the game from Union to League…all i would do is tweak the rules, and only 3 in particular- no rucks, no scrums, no mauls. Rest of rugby rules sty in place. In terms of the weight grouping the whole idea is you dont want small vs big…which means even if a guy is 16 but weighs 60kg he then can play u13…which really isnt right. But saying he must play in his age group defeats the big vs small approach. I cant ever see the weight thing happening…but perhaps a rule tweak is more realistic? i dunno

  • Comment 131, posted at 11.03.16 15:49:30 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 131) : My idea for League rules would only apply at Primary school. Then from u14 you introduce rucks…u15 scrums…and then from u16 upwards its rugby union as we know it.

  • Comment 132, posted at 11.03.16 15:51:07 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 131) : @SheldonK (Comment 132) : no matter what we say the main problem will be to get the rule makers to adapt the laws and sorry to say (for you and me) I can’t see that happening anytime soon!

  • Comment 133, posted at 11.03.16 16:35:55 by JD Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 117) : Not on which side. I’m saying that wings are generic it’s not like one is predisposed v to be attacking and the other defending. The role is solely dependant on the situation. They are interchangeable. My opinion probably the only position in the whole team that is as generic.

  • Comment 134, posted at 11.03.16 20:05:33 by coolfusion Reply

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