robdylan

Gold laments lack of territory


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks, Super Rugby on 29 Mar 2016 at 11:00
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“We need the ball in our hands more – we can’t play without the ball for that period of time – you can’t expect a team to tackle that much, especially against the likes of the Crusaders,” Said sharks Director of Rugby Gary Gold at Saturday night’s post-match press conference. “I must give the guys credit, though. Seven games together (including the pre-season) and this is our first defeat. We didn’t deserve to win the game, we must be honest about that. We must give credit to the Crusaders as well.

“We’ll learn from this. Five games down and it’s not going to get any easier on our tour to New Zealand, but I choose to focus on the positives and give the guys credit for the character they’ve shown, ” added Gold, after his team had come properly second-best in the territorial and possession stakes. Strong defence and two opportunistic tries to Lwazi Mvovo, however, kept the final score rather closer than one might have expected.

So what went wrong for the Sharks? For Gold, it all start with the basics of the game. “The first thing you need is territory,” he says, “you want to build pressure once you get into the right areas of the field. For example, our first three kicks, we missed touch and gave them an opportunity to run back at us. If those go into touch, we’ve done well on the contesting, we can apply pressure and maybe win the ball back, life gets a little bit easier for us. It’s not just one simple answer – I mean, when you do get the ball back and get your opportunity, if you’ve been defending for 25 phases, you’re pretty poked. It’s all about the momentum of the game and wresting that in your favour so that when you get the chance you’re in the right area of the field and the right state of mind. If we go and look back, particularly in the second half, I think there were quite a few opportunities but we messed them up, but not winning the line-out or by failing to get through a couple of phases and that’s where we need to go back to the drawing board. I think our basics are pretty good, we’ve come quite a long way in a short space of time, but that’s the bar that’s been set and we have to work on that.

“You have to earn the right to be able to play. We didn’t earn that right today. We got our opportunities in the wrong areas of the field and when we got those opportunities we didn’t take them. If we’d been more in that game, spent half the game in the right areas of the field, then get a turnover try because our defence is so good, then tails are up.” Gold clearly feels that the Crusaders, through their excellent control of the territorial game, forced his team onto the back foot and essentially dictated the way the Sharks had to play to stay in touch.

For the Sharks, though, it’s not about a lack of wanting to play attacking rugby. “We’ve got great outside backs and we want to get the ball into their hands. We just need to work hard on doing that,” Gold adds.

Gold was asked to comment on the TMO ruling, in particularity the one that saw a Willie le Roux try disallowed due to a very inconclusive-seeming offsides offence. He declined to say much (other than that he didn’t agree with the decision), adding “I don’t have to bite my lip. The fact of the matter is, we lost the game and that wasn’t the reason why. We must man up and at the end of the day, we need to look after the ball more and when we get our opportunities, we need to take them. I’d far rather spend my time on fixing those problems than the problems I can’t fix.”

When it was pointed out that the Sharks at least took a losing bonus point from the game, Gold didn’t seem to take much comfort. “We got a point? Yes, a point more than we got this time last year…”.



248 Comments

  • I am glad that Gold acknowledge the same problems that we saw. Now I just hope him and his team will spend these next two weeks hard at work to rectify those mistakes.

  • Comment 1, posted at 29.03.16 11:08:13 by KingRiaan Reply
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  • “If we’d been more in that game, spent half the game in the right areas of the field, then get a turnover try because our defence is so good, then tails are up.”
    And that right there is why your team doesn’t have an attacking mindset Mr Gold, because you don’t.

    Territory =/= Attacking, that is the flaw in his kicking ‘game plan’. You can have all the territory in the world (we didn’t) but that doesn’t buy you tries, attacking rugby does.
    But as the Chiefs have shown us, you don’t need to kick to attack, you can attack from deep if you actually coach your team properly (something Gold is not able to do).

  • Comment 2, posted at 29.03.16 11:19:17 by Nostraseth Reply
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  • @Nostraseth (Comment 2) : I’m sorry, but that’s rubbish Seth. Utter, utter rubbish.

    Attacking from the right areas of the field is simply common sense rugby. Did you see the Crusaders running the ball from their 22? The one time they tried that, it was US who scored. No… good coaches coach their teams to win the territorial contest in order to win the game. It has nothing to do with this “attacking mindset” bullshit that you’ve come up with.

  • Comment 3, posted at 29.03.16 11:30:15 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 3) : So then how on earth have the Chiefs scored so many tries and yet topped the least amount of kicks every game? Magic?

  • Comment 4, posted at 29.03.16 11:32:48 by Nostraseth Reply
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  • Looking at the top try scoring teams (mainly NZ teams) they all tend to be middle of the table when it comes to kicks. So far they all have one game where they kicked more then the rest, other than the Landers, who have used a very very good kicking game plan.

    The Chiefs (top try scorers) other than this round have been bottom of the kicking list every week, so clearly they have found a way to get into try scoring positions without needing to kick the ball every single time they get it.

  • Comment 5, posted at 29.03.16 11:41:04 by Nostraseth Reply
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  • In SA we seem to think it’s either a “kicking” everything or “running” everything game, with nothing in between.

    One thing is certain and that is – we need to change something. In the 4 games since the Kings we average 1.5 tries per match and have had more tries scored against us than we have scored. This all says to me something is not quite right.

  • Comment 6, posted at 29.03.16 11:41:24 by Character_Schmarachter Reply

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  • @Nostraseth (Comment 4) : this is what makes statistics dangerous….. because you can so easily pick two columns form your spreadsheet and fabricate a causal relationship between the two of them.

    Chiefs have kicked the least and have conceded significantly more points than any other conference-leading team. Is that also magic?

    Big wins against useless teams like the Force and the Kings, but lost at home to the Lions? Maybe best to wait until the end of the tournament before we decide whose strategy worked best.

  • Comment 7, posted at 29.03.16 11:41:36 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Nostraseth (Comment 5) : so according to the stats I’ve seen (ones that I trust) the Sharks kicked 33 times in open play on Saturday.

    According to you, the Crusaders stuffed us because they have an “attacking mindset” rather than a “flawed kicking game plan” . So how many times did they kick? Must be a really low number, right? Care to hazard a guess?

  • Comment 8, posted at 29.03.16 11:44:02 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 7) : I’m pretty sure if you had to ask any rugby fan out there, they’d tell you the Chiefs play a far more entertaining brand of rugby.
    But you know what the real magic is, they concede all those tries and still pull off wins. Sure we are only 5 games in, but that’s all we have to debate with, I debate with facts, not hypothetical.

  • Comment 9, posted at 29.03.16 11:46:16 by Nostraseth Reply
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  • @Nostraseth (Comment 5) : Yeah look, Rob has a point. The Chiefs have lost against the Blues and the Lions, almost lost to the Jaguars and have played none of the top teams…maybe just hang on a bit before basing a conclusion on stats that are skewed by big wins against the Kings and the Force…

  • Comment 10, posted at 29.03.16 11:46:27 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 8) : surely a kick percentage is a better stat? If we had the ball from any platform 40 times and kicked 33 and the Crusaders had the ball 65 times but only kicked 28…

  • Comment 11, posted at 29.03.16 11:47:34 by Character_Schmarachter Reply

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  • @Character_Schmarachter (Comment 11) : depends on what kind of argument we’re trying to have. I thought the game here was “pick a random stat and use it to prove that Gary Gold is a kak coach”

  • Comment 12, posted at 29.03.16 11:50:25 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 8) : I know exactly how many times they kicked.
    But amazingly enough, unlike our single minded SA rugby mindset, the NZ actually have the ability to change up their game when needed. If you can get a kick straight into your hands (like we gave them) then why not kick that ball back (do it better) and gain territory. Especially when you up against one of (if not the) best defences in the tournament. That variation earned them a win, and points on the board (something we weren’t able to do in 80 minutes of rugby).

    I don’t think kicking is useless (look at the Highlanders). I just think Gold is to useless to implement a good.kicking game plan.

  • Comment 13, posted at 29.03.16 11:50:25 by Nostraseth Reply
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  • @Nostraseth (Comment 13) : you do realise that it’s not ACTUALLY Gold himself who executes the kicks, right?

  • Comment 14, posted at 29.03.16 11:51:07 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 12) : Sarcasm always wins an argument…… See what I did there ;-)

  • Comment 15, posted at 29.03.16 11:51:26 by Nostraseth Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 14) : So then either we have shit players or all 3 of the players who spent the game kicking suddenly decided to all have a bad game? Yea that’s totally more likely then them being badly coached.

  • Comment 16, posted at 29.03.16 11:52:36 by Nostraseth Reply
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  • @Nostraseth (Comment 13) : I don’t get why you can’t try to make your comments constructive, because you really do have a very good insight into this game.

    Nobody can argue that the Sharks kicked well or executed correctly when they did kick. So why not say that? Why do you have to erode your argument by having a dig at the coach based on an assumption you’ve made or an opinion you hold? You’ve said you like to argue based on facts, but then you add these silly digs about “Gold is a kak coach” which is not a fact, it’s an opinion.

  • Comment 17, posted at 29.03.16 11:53:22 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Nostraseth (Comment 9) : No Seth, you debate with INTERPRETATIONS of facts…so in your arguments you have, for example, not highlighted some of the variables that you should be taking into account – opposition played so far, just to mention one. You are welcome to your opinion…just don’t pretend that yours is the only possible valid objective interpretation of the facts…

  • Comment 18, posted at 29.03.16 11:53:54 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Character_Schmarachter (Comment 6) : that seems a problem for all KZN sides. Just take the Impi! A lack of bonus points cost them a certain place in Varsity Cup!!!

  • Comment 19, posted at 29.03.16 11:55:26 by JD Reply
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  • @Nostraseth (Comment 16) : I’m truly amazed that you believe that Gary Gold (or anyone else) actually spends time during the week coaching the players to kick poorly. Do you seriously believe that?

    I saw Marcell Coetzee miss a few tackles. Why did Omar Moumeinme coach him to miss a tackle? We’ve seen Marcell make tackles before, so we know he’s not a bad tackler. Must be the coach.

  • Comment 20, posted at 29.03.16 11:55:36 by robdylan Reply
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  • The stats from ESPN indicate that our possession was 44% which is quite good and in many cases sufficient to win. The problem is with the territorial stats which indicate an imbalanced 33% – 67%. We made 107 tackles to their 53 and the missed tackle count was 14 us and 6 for them. However the possession in the two halves was significantly different with the Crusaders enjoying 61% in the 2nd half.
    In addition our score was “flattered” by the two brilliant intercepts by Lwazi Mvovo over which Blackadder is bound to kick some Crusader butt.
    I am not convinced by the Gold gameplan which he learned from Jake White and is based on kick, chase, pressure, tackle, territory. It works but is unattractive and won’t work if the opposition run the ball back past a lone chaser or even two and are able to support their ball carrier in numbers.
    The fact is that The Sharks appeared to me to be sloppy in concentration, failed in too many basics although the penalty count was even at 9-10.
    Linebreaks 15 Crusaders 3 Sharks and 21 Offloads Crusaders 2 Sharks – very, very poor.

  • Comment 21, posted at 29.03.16 11:57:55 by charlieharvey Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 17) : Because I truly and categorically believe he is a shit coach. And it’s not personal, (I don’t know him personally) but I truly do believe that he is not the quality of coach the Sharks should have.

    And also because blame has to be put on someone, yes we can all agree on somethings, and do. Where we differ is who we feel is behind the failure.

  • Comment 22, posted at 29.03.16 11:58:08 by Nostraseth Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 19) : bonus points for tries are far harder to come by this year – for all teams. You can’t extrapolate from what happened to Impi and apply that tot he Sharks who are playing in a different competition with a vastly different system used to award bonus points.

    Chiefs have 2 BP’s…. one against the Kings, one against the Force. Sharks have 1, against the Kings. The conclusion I draw is that you score try BP’s against bad teams with poor defence.

  • Comment 23, posted at 29.03.16 11:58:26 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Nostraseth (Comment 22) : I find your definition of “failure” very interesting, given the circumstances.

    What is your expectation for 2016? I guess it’s that the Sharks must win every match, yes?

  • Comment 24, posted at 29.03.16 12:00:58 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 20) : I have a problem with the game plan, and don’t believe I have articulated that badly. Ignoring what I am saying doesn’t make it less true (IMO). No he didn’t make them kick badly. What he did do is send them out to play a game plan they clearly were not able to execute well, that speaks to lack of adequate coaching in said game plan.

  • Comment 25, posted at 29.03.16 12:01:06 by Nostraseth Reply
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  • @Nostraseth (Comment 16) : In psychology hostility is generally not taken to be a sign of objectivity. I really think if we could keep our comments to a more reasonable tone it would contribute to a more constructive (and possibly more objective) debate. That is not really the case at the moment…

  • Comment 26, posted at 29.03.16 12:01:12 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Nostraseth (Comment 22) : “because blame has to be put on someone”

    That’s also a very interesting statement. Why do you feel that is the case?

  • Comment 27, posted at 29.03.16 12:02:00 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Nostraseth (Comment 22) : Of course such a strong opinion does then tend to colour the interpretation of facts…

  • Comment 28, posted at 29.03.16 12:02:35 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 27) : Because you can not fix a problem without finding the root cause.

  • Comment 29, posted at 29.03.16 12:03:16 by Nostraseth Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 12) : hahaha LMAO!!!!!!! can I play to or is it invitation only? Hahaha!!!!!!!!!!! :twisted:

  • Comment 30, posted at 29.03.16 12:03:48 by JD Reply
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  • I’m looking for an intelligent kicking game….I hate when teams run everything equally as much as I hate when a team kicks everything.

    Sharks need to find the balance….and learn how to better handle defensive pressure from the opposition. Kicking is not the only option.

  • Comment 31, posted at 29.03.16 12:04:23 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Nostraseth (Comment 29) : so your solution to all of the Sharks problems is to fire the coach?

  • Comment 32, posted at 29.03.16 12:06:18 by robdylan Reply
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  • @ Nostraseth (Comment 5) Sharks kicked 35 Crusaders 29 but the running counts was 554m – 205m in favour of the Crusaders.

  • Comment 33, posted at 29.03.16 12:06:32 by charlieharvey Reply

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  • @pastorshark (Comment 26) : I am objective because this doesn’t effect me on a personal level, sure I am passionate, but my life goes on completely unexpected by this. I argue for (or against) what I honestly believe to be the truth that’s all.

  • Comment 34, posted at 29.03.16 12:07:01 by Nostraseth Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 31) : YES YES YES! Everything you have said there is 1000% accurate.

    Reality, though,is that when you’re in your 22 and facing pressure, kicking often IS the best option, if not the only one. But you have to execute those kicks well and ensure that they put you in a better position. The Sharks did not do that.

    Now Gold is not saying “player X is kak and did not kick well” because he is not the sort of coach to throw his players under the bus…. but read between the lines a little.

  • Comment 35, posted at 29.03.16 12:08:26 by robdylan Reply
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  • “intelligent kicking” – that is the difference between the All Blacks (and the good NZ super sides) and the rest. The aim of a kick should always be to have a nett positive outcome for your team – not just to kick because the player is not sure what to do next.

  • Comment 36, posted at 29.03.16 12:10:46 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 32) : No, because of the situation the Sharks have gotten themselves into they can’t afford another fired coach. What they can do is accept where the problem lies (doesn’t have to be done publicly) and move to get people doing the jobs where their strengths lie (again doesn’t have to be done publicly).

    @charlieharvey (Comment 33) : They had a ball a hell of a lot more than we did, thus making their kick/time with the ball ratio far better than ours.

  • Comment 37, posted at 29.03.16 12:11:00 by Nostraseth Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 23) : Rob I know you can’t compare the competitions. I just think (not a fact or stat just a personal perception) that the Sharks (not talking about 4-5 games this season but in past seasons) has score less bonus points for tries scored than other top teams. I’m also relatively sure that if I go and look a lack of bonus points has cost the Sharks a place in playoffs or home ground in playoffs.

  • Comment 38, posted at 29.03.16 12:11:23 by JD Reply
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  • @Nostraseth (Comment 37) : so you’re saying they should put the Director of Rugby on gardening leave? Move him away from the team without actually announcing it, so he can see out his contract while other people coach the team? Ja, I can see how that makes perfect sense. And the timing is right too. The side may be top of the conference log, but they did, after all, lose a game. First one this season, but still, someone must take the blame and of course someone needs to lose their job when the team loses.

    Question for you. Assuming we move Gold to some other role and the Sharks lose another game, who do we blame next?

  • Comment 39, posted at 29.03.16 12:13:44 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Nostraseth (Comment 22) : I’m with you on this view.

    Because I was never impressed when Gold was announced as White’s replacement I can accept that Gold has to work extra hard to satisfy me. When the Sharks do not play well his role comes under greater scrutiny because of that predisposed view (based on Gold’s coaching track record).

    I can’t change Gold’s coaching track record, just as I cannot change the terrible 2015 the Sharks had under him, just as I cannot change the sinking feeling that there are cracks starting to appear and widen with each passing game in this campaign.

    I can appreciate a much improved defence and team spirit this year but I’m wise enough to know these two things will only get us so far (and that better coaches in their 2nd season in charge might have offered more).

    I forever remain hopeful that Gold will prove me wrong.

  • Comment 40, posted at 29.03.16 12:14:40 by Character_Schmarachter Reply

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  • @JD (Comment 38) : true enough. I just don’t think try bonus points are going to be a factor in Super Ruby this year. That’s the point I was trying to make – apologies if I didn’t do it very well. Seth has me a little worked up :mrgreen:

  • Comment 41, posted at 29.03.16 12:15:08 by robdylan Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 38) : My suspicion is that due to the changes in the competition rules bonus points (pretty much only get them in serious mismatches between teams) will not have such an affect on the eventual log positions as in previous years.

  • Comment 42, posted at 29.03.16 12:16:56 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • Stats without context are meaningless. Understanding that in sport you play against good team, sometimes often better teams on the day than your team. Does it mean your team is completely useless and all coaching staff should be fired.No. It means you played against a better team. Sport is a bout the contest…and yes believe it or not sometimes you lose that contest, not because you are terrible but because the opposition is better. Does it mean that they will always be better and you will always lose every game…no. It means on that day they were better. So were the Sharks perfect on Saturday, no. Did they try damn hard to win and almost win…yes they did. If LeRoux’s try had stood i believe we would have gone on to win…wonder what the comments would have been then…

  • Comment 43, posted at 29.03.16 12:17:19 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 39) : How about making the director of rugby, the director of rugby and not the head coach….. maybe that would make a little more sense?
    Sorry but I told you I don’t deal in hypotheticals. Hypotheticals are designed to create situations where you have questions you’re physically unable to answer (pretty obviously your goal when asking it).

  • Comment 44, posted at 29.03.16 12:17:20 by Nostraseth Reply
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  • @Nostraseth (Comment 34) : Again, you’re more than welcome to believe that what you are saying is 100% the truth. I just don’t think that:
    a. That makes the opinion automatically objective. Your definition of objective as something that does not affect you on a personal level is just not accurate. Many people are subjective about things that don’t affect them on a personal level…and the sort of extreme passion that leads to them using profanity to describe others is usually a pretty good sign that more subjectivity than objectivity is being exerted at that particular point.
    b. It is in the interests of truth or constructive debate to treat every other opinion as if it is 100% wrong or dumb.

  • Comment 45, posted at 29.03.16 12:17:39 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 39) : blame me all the people at my work already blame me for every mistake so I’m ok with it! :twisted:

  • Comment 46, posted at 29.03.16 12:19:00 by JD Reply
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  • @Character_Schmarachter (Comment 40) : Let’s remember that this is a man who himself, publicly stated he didn’t want to be head coach but had to due to circumstance.

  • Comment 47, posted at 29.03.16 12:19:11 by Nostraseth Reply
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  • @Character_Schmarachter (Comment 40) : I think your points are all valid to an extent, but I also think you’re carefully choosing to leave out a number of other factors that could balance the argument more.

    Can we at least consider that the following may play a role:
    - 5 different head coaches in 5 different campaigns in the lead-up to Gary taking over
    - the confusion caused by Venter’s involvement without a clearly defined coaching hierarchy
    - further staff turnover in the assistant coaching ranks (Everitt is the only guy who has been consistently there for 3 years – every other position has changed hands at least twice)
    - Gold arriving 2 weeks before last year’s campaign
    - a host of senior players who were not fully committed to the 2015 campaign due to injury fears ahead of the World Cup
    - the loss of nearly 500 caps’ worth of Super Rugby experience ahead of the 2016 season

  • Comment 48, posted at 29.03.16 12:20:58 by robdylan Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 45) : I used “useless” once….so sorry if that offends.
    “b. It is in the interests of truth or constructive debate to treat every other opinion as if it is 100% wrong or dumb.” Those are your words, not mine.

  • Comment 49, posted at 29.03.16 12:21:02 by Nostraseth Reply
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  • @Nostraseth (Comment 47) : link to that quote, please?

  • Comment 50, posted at 29.03.16 12:21:19 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 41) : @Bokhoring (Comment 42) : I also think this year it will change but was talking more historically (as for the Sharks) than current.

  • Comment 51, posted at 29.03.16 12:22:04 by JD Reply
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  • Let’s not kid ourselves that any person on a site called Sharksworld is presenting an objective view ;-)

    Subjective views are cool though, what else do we expect? Debate is to be encouraged.

  • Comment 52, posted at 29.03.16 12:22:07 by Character_Schmarachter Reply

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  • @Nostraseth (Comment 44) : seems I will need to bait my next trap more carefully :mrgreen:

  • Comment 53, posted at 29.03.16 12:23:36 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 53) : he’s got you on that one boss! 1-0 to Seth. hahahaha :twisted:

  • Comment 54, posted at 29.03.16 12:27:03 by JD Reply
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  • @Nostraseth (Comment 49) : I think you need to read point b. as the completion of the sentence that started before the “:” …so you should have read…”I just don’t think that it is in the interests of truth or constructive debate to treat every other opinion as if it is 100% wrong or dumb.”

  • Comment 55, posted at 29.03.16 12:27:03 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Character_Schmarachter (Comment 52) : Absolutely correct…of course, it starts becoming an issue if somebody actually thinks their opinion is the one 100% objective one…

  • Comment 56, posted at 29.03.16 12:28:26 by pastorshark Reply
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  • When in doubt kick the coach out. Considering that the Sharks were the last team to remain unbeaten it seems that every other team should have already fired their coaches…

  • Comment 57, posted at 29.03.16 12:29:26 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Nostraseth (Comment 49) : I do believe you referred to Gold as “shit” on several occasions…that is what I was referring to…

  • Comment 58, posted at 29.03.16 12:29:31 by pastorshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Administrator
    pastorsharkCoach
     
  • @JD (Comment 54) : seriously? You’re giving me no points whatsoever for any of the arguments I’ve put forward?

    Wow, tough crowd! :oops:

  • Comment 59, posted at 29.03.16 12:29:49 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 48) : It looks like I need to send you the article I was working on during the holidays…I haven’t managed to tidy it up yet, but one of the conclusions highlights what you say in this comment…

  • Comment 60, posted at 29.03.16 12:31:41 by pastorshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Administrator
    pastorsharkCoach
     
  • anyway….. let’s move on. We will all believe what we want to believe and the wonderful thing is that in a free world we’re entitled to think whatever we like. It would be boring if we all agreed.

    I think the rebuilding Sharks are on a good path at the moment and I’m positive about the future. I make no apologies for holding that view, but I also realise that it’s not my personal mission to convince every other fan to feel the same way.

    Let’s not call anyone “shit” though. That’s just common decency. If you want to question performance, then by all means do so,, but keep it civil and rather don’t say anything that you wouldn’t say in a face-to-face conversation with that person.

  • Comment 61, posted at 29.03.16 12:32:42 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 59) : I’m only counting fishing/baiting/luring vs response! :twisted:

  • Comment 62, posted at 29.03.16 12:33:02 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @pastorshark (Comment 60) : thanks. That would be appreciated.

  • Comment 63, posted at 29.03.16 12:33:12 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 59) : @pastorshark (Comment 60) : Shew it seems people couldnt wait for this loss. They must have hated the Sharks winning in preseason and Super rugby up till now

  • Comment 64, posted at 29.03.16 12:33:38 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 48) : sure, which is why there is a need for some stability this season. There is a reason why “Gold_must_fall” was canned you know!

    I don’t think anybody is really questioning how we got into the position you describe and why. Perhaps it was to be expected following the vacuum left by the big sea change of the Van Zyl era ending. Whatever, it happened, and I feel there is some stability in the board now and perhaps experience learned through mistakes in our management/board team.

    There is a limit though to on field results and another poor season might not be enough to save Gold.

    What is a poor season though? Not making the play offs again (I mean come on practically half the teams compete in the play offs now)? Not finishing first in our conference of 4 teams? Or is it more obscure – the style of play? An inability to create tries? Coming off second best in preparation and the mental stakes?

    Who knows… we have front row seats for the show though!

  • Comment 65, posted at 29.03.16 12:34:28 by Character_Schmarachter Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • Watching replay of the game.just saw a clip of coenie trying to explain something to cooper,with both players sitting on the bench.coenie already subbed and cooper yet to be used.my guess it is re: scrums.think the saders got away with a few things and the sharks were penalised.

  • Comment 66, posted at 29.03.16 12:34:43 by 50shadesofshark Reply

    Team captain
     
  • @pastorshark (Comment 58) : You’re correct I did say he is shit in one comment (I wasn’t actually the first person to swear in this comment section) but again sorry if it offends, this is the internet after all and thankfully a platform that is not censored (yet anyways).

    @robdylan (Comment 50) : Wouldn’t know where to look, but it’s irrelevant anyway whether he said it or not.

  • Comment 67, posted at 29.03.16 12:34:43 by Nostraseth Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    NostrasethTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 3) : No Rob….Gold has a certain mindset which he has from the Jaguars game enforced on the players. Gold must just step aside and let Rob du Preez run the show. I didn’t even see Rob in the coaching box on Saturday. Gold is an old school coach with outdated practices.

  • Comment 68, posted at 29.03.16 12:37:43 by GreatSharksays Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @Character_Schmarachter (Comment 52) : I am totally with you on your last few words as well. That was my point. Of course there are facts floating around…but all of our interpretations of those facts are subjective…some more and some less so, to be sure…but subjective nonetheless…

  • Comment 69, posted at 29.03.16 12:37:50 by pastorshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Administrator
    pastorsharkCoach
     
  • @Nostraseth (Comment 67) : @robdylan):@pastorsharks: will it then perhaps not be a good idea to censor swearing,blasphemy?

  • Comment 70, posted at 29.03.16 12:39:19 by 50shadesofshark Reply

    Team captain
     
  • @Character_Schmarachter (Comment 65) : I’d like us to agree on what we’ll look at as an acceptable return this season.

    I wish I had a straight answer. Last year was so kak that it’s really hard not to improve on it, but we do need to consider our history before being too willing to accept mediocrity.

    It’s out of our hands, though, to a large extent. We don’t like to complain about the draw, but you yourself put forward an article this morning highlighting just what a farce it is. The reality is that we are very unlikely to win our pool this year simply because the tour draw is so unfavourable (and so unfair).

    I need to think about this a bit more.

  • Comment 71, posted at 29.03.16 12:39:49 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 68) : Rob was definitely there running the warm ups. Maybe he went for a beer during the game.

  • Comment 72, posted at 29.03.16 12:40:11 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 35) : I saw Venter say that the Sharks aren’t good enough YET to employ an effective kicking game (or was that attacking game?). Either way, it seems to be a known issue, and therefore something they are probably working on.

    Sadly, we’ve once again been out-foxed by the Saders….personally, I can’t wait to see how the Lions go against them – they off course employ the “run everything from everywhere” tactic…I like the way they play, except for how it completely backfired vs. the Landers.

  • Comment 73, posted at 29.03.16 12:40:22 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 68) : That’s an interesting theory, but you have nothing to back that up with. It’s just a conclusion you’ve jumped to. My conclusion is different.

  • Comment 74, posted at 29.03.16 12:40:43 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • Personally, and this is very much my own opinion. I wouldn’t care at all if we weren’t as high on the table as we are, IF we had shown improvement in the rugby we are playing. Unfortunately we have not (this is my opinion but also backed by fact), and this I personally blame on the coach.

  • Comment 75, posted at 29.03.16 12:41:07 by Nostraseth Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    NostrasethTeam captain
     
  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 70) : no…. the rules are clear that we need to self-censor and I am no less guilty than anyone else when I get worked up.

    Apologies and I will try to set a better tone myself.

  • Comment 76, posted at 29.03.16 12:41:41 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @Nostraseth (Comment 67) : I am not offended by the swear word…I have never commented about swearing before. In this argument, though, I was just pointing out that swearing about people is generally taken to be an indicator for subjectivity rather than objectivity. I was just making the point that @Character_Schmarachter (Comment 52) : summed up so well here. I’m happy to let my point rest there…

  • Comment 77, posted at 29.03.16 12:42:11 by pastorshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Administrator
    pastorsharkCoach
     
  • Reinach really puts a lot of effort in on defence.

  • Comment 78, posted at 29.03.16 12:42:22 by 50shadesofshark Reply

    Team captain
     
  • Our whole attack is based on field position. We got pinned back behind our 20 meter line and struggled to get into their half. Yes we kicked poorly, but the saders attack wasn’t all that brilliant. So they kind of cancelled each other out and we lost by a whisker.

  • Comment 79, posted at 29.03.16 12:42:28 by Dragnipur Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    DragnipurSuper Rugby player
     
  • Ok my 2 cents. I think all people that commented stated something that’s correct and in the best interest of the Sharks! That’s why we are here and not on other websites as our love for the Sharks binds us together and like a moth to a flame draws us in over and over again even if it burns our wings over and over again.
    For now all I ask is that you please give me 30min of no comments as it was nearly impossible for me to get any work done whislt following this debate as it was fun but now I must do some work and I don’t want to miss anything! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

  • Comment 80, posted at 29.03.16 12:42:30 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 70) : Personally I would leave this site if that happened, thankfully I don’t think I will.

  • Comment 81, posted at 29.03.16 12:42:56 by Nostraseth Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    NostrasethTeam captain
     
  • I think the basic issue is that we are playing the kind of game, which almost solely relies on the assumption that handing the opposition possession and forcing them into errors via defensive/territorial pressure, is the way to win.

    This is the same game plan the Boks have gotten nowhere with against the All Blacks,yet we employ it against the team that arguably plays the most like the All Blacks out of all the NZ SR sides.

    If that’s what we have to look forward to as Sharks fans, I can’t pretend to be ecstatic at the prospect.

  • Comment 82, posted at 29.03.16 12:43:13 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of RugbyTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 71) : “but we do need to consider our history before being too willing to accept mediocrity.”

    Hallelujah! This is one of my biggest bugbears! Sounds just like another article I had in mind…

  • Comment 83, posted at 29.03.16 12:44:40 by Character_Schmarachter Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • Biggest problem I have is that Joe and willie aren’t known for their booming big boots. Might need to get esterhuizen to boot a few down field for that extra 20m.

  • Comment 84, posted at 29.03.16 12:44:43 by Dragnipur Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    DragnipurSuper Rugby player
     
  • Kicking as a strategy could work if your kickers knew how to execute. We are currently using a strategy we are inept at and therefore lose advantage posession and territory. If you see your guts have been failing at it for three games surely you need to consider alternatives and ensure they play a different plan. It takes both Joe and Willie at least 4 horrendous kicks to start making one good one. It needs work but till its fixed we need a different go to.

  • Comment 85, posted at 29.03.16 12:45:11 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 70) : I’m with Rob on that…I have no issues with how the site runs…self-censorship is fine, people expressing opinions passionately is fine…I was making a different point…

  • Comment 86, posted at 29.03.16 12:46:12 by pastorshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Administrator
    pastorsharkCoach
     
  • @Nostraseth (Comment 75) : we show no improvement in the rugby we’re playing? Really? You don’t believe we’re ANY better than we were this time last year?

    This is where we differ most fundamentally, I’m afraid.

    Here’s what I want. I want to be able to feel PROUD of my team. I know that’s subjective, but that’s what this means to me. I wasn’t particularly proud after the draw at Loftus, but I was incredibly proud of how the team hung in there against the Crusaders on Saturday. You guys like to laugh about “character” but for me, there is no more important attribute for a person to have. You don’t win all the time, in rugby, or in life. What kind of man are you? That’s a more important question to me.

    The Sharks lost to the Crusaders 10-52 a year ago and showed zero character, zero fight, zero pride in the jersey or each other. Do you really believe Saturday’s performance was not an improvement on that?

  • Comment 87, posted at 29.03.16 12:46:12 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 85) : Forget it. Where have you heard this before:”The game plan is not the problem, but the execution thereof.”

  • Comment 88, posted at 29.03.16 12:48:23 by Spirit of Rugby Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of RugbyTeam captain
     
  • Just watched the disallowed try.really feel for the sharks.but as gold said,can’t focus on the things you cannot change.

  • Comment 89, posted at 29.03.16 12:48:59 by 50shadesofshark Reply

    Team captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 87) : Position and quality of rugby played are two very very different things…. Obviously we are better off, and our defence has improved (to the level or was under JW) but no I do not think the rest of our game has improved.

  • Comment 90, posted at 29.03.16 12:50:53 by Nostraseth Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    NostrasethTeam captain
     
  • @Character_Schmarachter (Comment 83) : here is the dichotomy for me. History v reality. We can go on about a proud history as much as we like, but we don’t yet have the team to match or improve on that pedigree.

    Great teams take time to come together. The Sharks were a bloody shambles in 1994, but Ian Mac took them and honed them over two years into a great outfit. Dick Muir did the same starting in 2005 and culminating in our best-ever Super Rugby run in 2007. This team is at the very beginning of a two or three year cycle and I firmly believe that 2016 is going to be another year like 1995 or 2006. Not a great season in terms of results, but one that sets the platform and is a precursor to a great campaign to follow.

  • Comment 91, posted at 29.03.16 12:51:06 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @Nostraseth (Comment 90) : have you ever coached a rugby team?

  • Comment 92, posted at 29.03.16 12:52:43 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • As far as coaching here in SA is concerned, this is a blog that I write elsewhere:
    http://www.supersupporter.net/topic/12902-south-africas-brand-of-rugby

  • Comment 93, posted at 29.03.16 12:53:42 by charlieharvey Reply

    charlieharveyUnder 21 player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 92) : I have not no.

  • Comment 94, posted at 29.03.16 12:54:30 by Nostraseth Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    NostrasethTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 87) : Rob, sorry to say but these crack started showing against the Stormers already, then a week later against the Bulls, both times we should have also lost. Everyone bemoaned JW style of play, I see not difference right now. Without Willie who can crate something out of nothing, we seriously have nothing to show in our backline. I am not convinced by comparing last years game with this weekends one. We should have lost this week by at least 30-0. A refection of what actually happened on the day shows that we not close to as strong as we thought in our scrums, our backline have absolutely nothing to show but Willie creating something out of nothing and a few other opportunist players. We literally have been kicking away possession (aimlessly) for more than one week now, until now we have been lucky on the score sheets.

  • Comment 95, posted at 29.03.16 12:54:42 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli BoelieTeam captain
     
  • @charlieharvey (Comment 93) : Really like your views.

  • Comment 96, posted at 29.03.16 12:56:35 by Nostraseth Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    NostrasethTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 91) : We cant go anywhere if we don’t have a proper centre combination.

  • Comment 97, posted at 29.03.16 12:57:17 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli BoelieTeam captain
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 95) : “listerallit”

    Please tell me which auto-correct you use so that I never make the mistake of using it. :lol:

  • Comment 98, posted at 29.03.16 12:57:20 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @Nostraseth (Comment 81) : can’t you make a comment withouth using a swear word?does one need to swear to make a point?

  • Comment 99, posted at 29.03.16 12:58:45 by 50shadesofshark Reply

    Team captain
     
  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 99) : Swearing is used to express emotion (very effectively IMO), if you don’t like swearing then the internet is not a very good place to be.

  • Comment 100, posted at 29.03.16 13:00:56 by Nostraseth Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    NostrasethTeam captain
     
  • @Nostraseth (Comment 100) : Personally, I think swearing shows that you lack the required vocabulary to effectively articulate your argument. ;-)

  • Comment 101, posted at 29.03.16 13:03:45 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @Nostraseth (Comment 94) : neither have I. My feeling, though, is that it probably takes time to get a team to play in a certain way. I don’t think you can really expect a coach to get everything right within a month or two.

    Look at Jake. I mean, he’s considered to be a very good coach but he always starts with defence. Some say he never moves on from defence…. but it wins him games.

  • Comment 102, posted at 29.03.16 13:04:01 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 101) : O hw rit u ar m8.

  • Comment 103, posted at 29.03.16 13:04:56 by Nostraseth Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    NostrasethTeam captain
     
  • Good coaches are the ones that creates a sustainable enabling environment for his management and players to thrive in. Poor coaches are the ones that changes their story, philosophy, strategy or plan at the first sign of things not going to plan.

    A sign of a good enabling environment is looking for the three C’s – character, conduct, commitment.

    Last year the Sharks were rubbish because the environment that drives success didn’t exist, quite simply because there was no-one there to create and manage it.

    I tipped the Sharks this season not because I like them, but because I saw those three C’s which was absent last year.

    The best way to judge a teams character and commitment is by looking at the way they defend. The way you judge their conduct is in the way they accept defeat.

    I have been very impressed with all of this.

    The Bulls draw was not put on one person, and I am not talking about what Gary said, I am talking about seeing just about every member of the team walking over to Joe with a word or action of encouragement (something you might not have seen on television). This team knows how to conduct themselves.

    The Sharks also is the best defensive unit in SA for me, their system works, more importantly, their units within that system works which is a further extension of trust not only in each other, but the coaches.

    Yes the set pieces (the foundation and platform for any team to win the territory and possession battles) are not 100%, but you have new combo’s in every unit in your forward pack, a lot of them with less than 10 caps to their names.

    Attack is a by-product of everything else working.

    As for the Chiefs, out of their 9 tries 1 was from a turn over on their own 22 in the first couple of minutes of the match. The rest originated from halfway or in the opponents half.

  • Comment 104, posted at 29.03.16 13:05:30 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 95) : cracks against the Stormers?

    Jeez bud, how negative are you that you couldn’t just find a way to enjoy a truly fantastic win against the Stormers? Seriously? That performance wasn’t good enough for you?

    Go check your expectations, I’d say, because they’re not realistic.

  • Comment 105, posted at 29.03.16 13:06:13 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @Nostraseth (Comment 103) : Now that just shows that you’re using a phone without a qwerty keyboard. ;-)

  • Comment 106, posted at 29.03.16 13:07:07 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 102) : The thing is, Jake has a track record that says he has the ability to improve a team, so even if at first you don’t see it, you have some evidence to make it worth putting faith in him. Where as Gold does not have that track record, nothing to say he will ever be more than mediocre, hence my lack of faith.

  • Comment 107, posted at 29.03.16 13:07:29 by Nostraseth Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    NostrasethTeam captain
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 95) : Look i think in preseason we played very much a ball in hand approach and did the same in the Kings game. We then came a bit unstuck against the Jaguares trying to play ball in hand as we were smashed in the tackle and rucks and lost plenty ball. The same thing happened against the Stormers to an extent and definitely vs the Bulls. So i think that had a lot to do with reverting to a kick/defensive pressure approach. What im not sure of is why you say the Sharks should have lost 30-0 this last weekend? The Sharks defended very well and could even have won the game. So yes if the Sharks didnt defend at all then maybe 30-0 but they did defend very well and scored off it so not sure why credit isnt given for that? Maybe im missing something

  • Comment 108, posted at 29.03.16 13:08:07 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 74) : Think about our games last year under Gold, it was kick at all costs. Look at the game tactics when we where in France and against the Kings. It was definitely a more ball in hand approach. Rob was being credited with bring structure and ideas to our attack. How much aimless kicking did you see in those games? Come the big SR games, Gold starts going on about playing in the right areas of the field and playing the territory game. Out goes the ball in hand approach and in comes the kicking game.

  • Comment 109, posted at 29.03.16 13:08:31 by GreatSharksays Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @Nostraseth (Comment 100) : think @robdylan said that the bloggers can self-censor themselves.also that it is not a good idea to post when you are emotional…just a question: do you also use the stats in your comments when you are in an emotional state?

  • Comment 110, posted at 29.03.16 13:08:43 by 50shadesofshark Reply

    Team captain
     
  • I must say I also was very disappointed with the style of play of the Sharks on Saturday, and think we were taught a real lesson in how to play a more complete game of rugby by the Crusaders.

    Someone has said it before, but it seemed eerily like Jake was coaching this match from the ‘kick and chase and hope for the best’ kind of game plan that I saw. Is this what the Sharks seem to default to when we don’t have an answer to the team we are playing.

  • Comment 111, posted at 29.03.16 13:09:33 by stevovo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    stevovoSuper Rugby player
     
  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 109) : “Rob was being credited with bring structure and ideas to our attack”

    by whom? And did they actually KNOW or did they just assume?

  • Comment 112, posted at 29.03.16 13:10:25 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 106) : :D

  • Comment 113, posted at 29.03.16 13:11:20 by 50shadesofshark Reply

    Team captain
     
  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 109) : regarding the way we played in France and against the Kings…. do you not think there’s a bit of a difference in the quality of opposition?

  • Comment 114, posted at 29.03.16 13:11:28 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 108) : All the points we scored were blind luck, and they missed out on 11 points with missed kicks, hence the quality of rugby was of a 30-0 game.

  • Comment 115, posted at 29.03.16 13:11:36 by Nostraseth Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    NostrasethTeam captain
     
  • @charlieharvey (Comment 93) : nice article, agree fully.

  • Comment 116, posted at 29.03.16 13:12:55 by Character_Schmarachter Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @Nostraseth (Comment 115) : I personally thought “blind luck” Mvovo worked pretty bloody hard for both of his tries, with the skill he showed in scoring the second one pretty impressive for a lucky guy with his eyes closed.

  • Comment 117, posted at 29.03.16 13:13:48 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • Think the issue is that some bloggers have an issue with gold the coach.and then some of them attack and swear gold the person.and comment with an agenda.that is not helping.

  • Comment 118, posted at 29.03.16 13:15:18 by 50shadesofshark Reply

    Team captain
     
  • @charlieharvey (Comment 93) : interesting article. You seem to have trawled the internet for every unsubstantiated rumour you could find, added a little bit of the ever-popular “political intrigue” angle and mixed it all together to come to a very strange conclusion.

  • Comment 119, posted at 29.03.16 13:16:05 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 117) : Mate luck or what ever word you want to use, we did not create those points, without those two moments (out of our hands, aside from one player) and had they had a better kicker it would have been 30-0.
    Now is when you should accuse me of reverting to hypotheticals when it suits me ;-) . But I’d argue that the stats are that of a 30-0 game, not of a close game at all…so probably best not to :lol:

  • Comment 120, posted at 29.03.16 13:17:08 by Nostraseth Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    NostrasethTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 108) : just read your post. Similar to my response to Rob. I differ a little in the sense that I think the kicking game come sooner. Could this be Gold’s stamp on the playing style to prove he’s still the head coach?? Just a thought?! Rob is known for an attacking ball in hand game and Gold is famous for the one dimensional kick at all costs game. Which coaches playing style has been evident lately and why? Secondly, Cobus’ passing game and speed to the ruck and breakdown is CC level at best. We need a world class scrumhalf. Where is Charl??

  • Comment 121, posted at 29.03.16 13:17:39 by GreatSharksays Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @Nostraseth (Comment 120) : pointless discussion, as you say.

  • Comment 122, posted at 29.03.16 13:19:18 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @Nostraseth (Comment 100) : @FireTheLooser (Comment 101) : @50shadesofshark (Comment 99) : I’ve also heard that swearing is due to a lack of vocabulary but personally I find swear word way easier to spel than all the other big words I’d like to use. ;-P

  • Comment 123, posted at 29.03.16 13:19:30 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 121) : ok, dude, you actually just broke my ability (and also my desire) to continue having an argument about this.

    Seriously? Are you effing serious with that comment? Or are you just saying stupid stuff to get a reaction?

  • Comment 124, posted at 29.03.16 13:21:40 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 122) : Not pointless, unwinnable.

    @JD (Comment 123) : Personally I find a good vocabulary with a pinch of passionate swearing is the most effective way to emphasis a point.

  • Comment 125, posted at 29.03.16 13:22:39 by Nostraseth Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    NostrasethTeam captain
     
  • @Morné (Comment 104) : oh no, when Morne starts referring to “character” as if it’s straight from the coaching handbook…. :mrgreen:

    Good old fashioned “gees”.

    Lovely to see it. Champion teams all seem to have this positive, bubbly vibe of camaraderie (perhaps a better ‘C’?).

    For sure, attack is a by product of everything else working but then we better get into gear because even with our much improved defence if we remove the Kings farce we have had more tries scored against us than we have scored.

    The obvious assumption must be that champion teams are simply good at everything – offence, defence and other intangibles like ‘gees’. We tick the defence and ‘gees’… do we have the brains for the next level up?

  • Comment 126, posted at 29.03.16 13:22:47 by Character_Schmarachter Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 105) : You right, my standards should be way lower, I am afterall supporting the Sharks all my darn life. How I dare raise my expectations.

  • Comment 127, posted at 29.03.16 13:23:47 by Uli Boelie Reply
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    Uli BoelieTeam captain
     
  • I’m out of here.

    Was enjoying the challenge of this discussion but when people start saying stupid stuff, I just lose my appetite.

    Catch you guys later.

  • Comment 128, posted at 29.03.16 13:24:49 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 121) : I don’t think it’s intentional or malicious. But I do agree completely that this is GG signature rugby, it’s just ineptitude.

  • Comment 129, posted at 29.03.16 13:25:43 by Nostraseth Reply
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  • Very emotive subject this.

    I am amongst the disappointed fans, but I am not writing the team off just yet. I wasnt too disappointed in the result given where we are as a team, but I was disappointed in the manner of the loss. Simply put; we didnt seem to be game-ready on any of our fundamentals other than the defence (which was truly world-class).

    The good news is that Gold recognises this, and unlike some fans, is not defending a kick at all costs strategy; he gets that the game is about momentum and you do not generate momentum by sitting back on your heels to defend – which is where I fee many SA sides have got it wrong for years. Gold knows this:

    “We need the ball in our hands more, we can’t play without the ball for that period of time, you can’t expect a team to tackle that much, especially against the likes of the Crusaders, and they’re up there with the best attack in the business.

    “The first thing you need is territory because you want to build on your pressure in the right areas of the field. But the early kicks didn’t go into touch and that gave them an opportunity to run at us. And then if you get an opportunity to run at them, but you’ve been defending for the last 25 phases, you’re pretty stuffed.”

    He also pointed out that we were unacceptable in our handling and attacking mindset – and that also is very good for me to hear since it shows that he is not trying to play 1980′s rugby:

    “I think our basics are pretty good, we’ve come quite a long way in a short space of time. But they set the bar high and we have to acknowledge that there is some work for us to look after the ball. We have great outside backs, we want to get the ball into their hands; we have to be hard on ourselves about that.

    “It’s all about the momentum of the game and wrestling it into your favour, so that when you get the chance, and you’re in the right area of the field, you’re in the right state of mind. And looking back, particularly in the second half, there were quite a few opportunities and we didn’t take them.”

  • Comment 130, posted at 29.03.16 13:28:28 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 128) : Considering the degradation of the discussion, Snarky should be our new site mascot :lol:

    Someone good at art please make a snarky Sharky :mrgreen:

  • Comment 131, posted at 29.03.16 13:29:26 by Nostraseth Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 130) : he is saying the right things which I was pleased to read. He said very similar things during the half time break.

    I hope he has the ability/confidence/clarity to make substantive remedial changes.

  • Comment 132, posted at 29.03.16 13:31:52 by Character_Schmarachter Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @Character_Schmarachter (Comment 126) :

    Yes, champion teams are good at everything, that is why they are, well, champions. But show me one team that became champions over a single campaign, or even two? Champion sides are built over time using CCC as one possible foundation. I didn’t get that from any World Rugby coaching handbook as it makes no mention of ‘character’, I got that from experience and working with the best coaches in the business. I have also met a bunch of level 3 coaches who I would not entrust to an U19 team.

  • Comment 133, posted at 29.03.16 13:35:45 by Morné Reply
    Author
    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 121) :
    This girlfriend of yours that Reinach stole; I’m sure she was a nag anyway.

    @Character_Schmarachter (Comment 132) :
    Absolutely – I agree with you. But a much nicer concern to have rather than wondering if the coach actually still believes that skop&jag/ domkrag rugby is the answer?

    I also have hope that he and the rest of the staff do, given how far we have come from last year. Also, to be very honest, I feel we have 2 average players at 2 and 10 that hold us back on a lot of our play, since most of your game is shaped around the set pieces and the decision-making at 9 and 10.

    No disrespect to either of them, who are really putting it all out there on the field, but this is an opinion I have held for some time, hence my unfettered joy when Chilli’s signing was announced and my horror at Pat’s injury.

  • Comment 134, posted at 29.03.16 13:38:03 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 134) :

    Yes, you sit with the same problems the Stormers had for over 15 years – halfbacks not up to standard. But I must run. Later.

  • Comment 135, posted at 29.03.16 13:40:25 by Morné Reply
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    MornéTeam captain
     
  • @Nostraseth (Comment 115) : That comment of yours just shows your rugby knowledge. Thanks for clearing that up.

  • Comment 136, posted at 29.03.16 13:42:06 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Morné (Comment 133) : oh, it was not a slight, apologies if perceived that way. Rather an ‘in joke’ at the number of times Gold mentions character. Seems he’s not the only one who places so much emphasis on the word :grin:

    I look at the Waratahs of 2012 and 2013. They finished 11th and 9th respectively. In 2014 they finished 1st and won the trophy for the first time in their history. This seems pretty overnight to me but I guess you’d say this was the product of two seasons construction after Michael Cheika was appointed in 2013.

    Key signings for the Waratahs 2014 season including Kurtley Beale, Nick Phipps and Jacques Potgieter certainly helped.

  • Comment 137, posted at 29.03.16 13:45:41 by Character_Schmarachter Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 136) : I know enough to not need to resort to personally criticism of the people I debate with ;-) .

  • Comment 138, posted at 29.03.16 13:45:47 by Nostraseth Reply
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  • @Spirit of Rugby (Comment 88) : The problem or challenge is to see if the players can actually listen to their coach. He obviously sees these flaws and has most definitely spoken about it to them but can he coach his alternatives into them if he cannot help them find better form? This is the real test to see if Gold will last if he can get these stubborn ingrained stains out.

  • Comment 139, posted at 29.03.16 13:46:09 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 121) : Are you saying that Gold wants a game plan just to spite Rob DuPreez? Come now on be a bit realistic. I give you more credit than that. There is a lot of evidence to suggest the Sharks are trying to play a more ball in hand game but we are having difficulty maintaining the ball. So thus i feel the coaches dont want to concede easy points to good sides so we kick in our half and only run in their half…well least thats the plan…it doesnt always work out exactly as the plan though. Reinach is a lot quicker around the park than our other scrummies. So is he perfect, no but doesnt mean he isnt good.

  • Comment 140, posted at 29.03.16 13:46:43 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Nostraseth (Comment 138) : Im just pointing out facts :)

  • Comment 141, posted at 29.03.16 13:47:14 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Character_Schmarachter (Comment 137) : Reds, Chiefs, Landers, all managed arguably overnight success.

  • Comment 142, posted at 29.03.16 13:47:24 by Nostraseth Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 141) : No…you quite literally did not point out a single fact?

  • Comment 143, posted at 29.03.16 13:48:12 by Nostraseth Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
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  • What i would like to see is the shark using jpp more on attack.look at clever ways to bring him into play.he is a strong runner.

  • Comment 144, posted at 29.03.16 13:49:13 by 50shadesofshark Reply

    Team captain
     
  • @Nostraseth (Comment 142) :
    :shock:
    Now you really are making your name gat!

    The fact that a very poor season was followed by a great one does not mean that the success was overnight – its normally a sign that drastic changes are being made. Overnight success generally only exists in Disney movies.

  • Comment 145, posted at 29.03.16 13:50:33 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • Cheika had the track record though. He’s already won the Heineken Cup with Leinster.

    His first season in charge of the Waratahs (2013) was largely unflattering. They finished 9th.

    Gold’s first season was very unflattering – we finished 11th.

    Cheika secured the aforementioned major signings of Beale, Phipps and Potgieter for his second season in charge.

    Gold secured the major signings of Le Roux, Oosthuizen, the same Potgieter and Van der Walt for his second season in charge.

    Cheika’s team won Super Rugby for their union’s first time in his second season in charge.

    ………..

    Lucky Waratahs.

  • Comment 146, posted at 29.03.16 13:51:55 by Character_Schmarachter Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @Nostraseth (Comment 143) : Actually i did. I said that your comment shows your rugby knowledge. And it does. Thats a fact chap.

  • Comment 147, posted at 29.03.16 13:53:22 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 144) : For me a clever switch would be to have him and Willie alternate at wing and fullback during the game just to shake things up.

  • Comment 148, posted at 29.03.16 13:53:24 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 140) : reinach does a lot of work on defence.

  • Comment 149, posted at 29.03.16 13:53:44 by 50shadesofshark Reply

    Team captain
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 145) : I said ‘arguably overnight’ did I not? I personally couldn’t be arsed with arguing the semantics “overnight”. All I did was provide examples of teams that went from mediocre to successful in as short a time as possible….read of that what you will.

  • Comment 150, posted at 29.03.16 13:53:47 by Nostraseth Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 145) : but drastic changes which result in a trophy the next season can in all fairness be called overnight success.

  • Comment 151, posted at 29.03.16 13:54:47 by Character_Schmarachter Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 147) : No it’s not…. Do you need me to define a fact for you? That is your opinion of my knowledge, their is no substantiation what so ever….

  • Comment 152, posted at 29.03.16 13:55:18 by Nostraseth Reply
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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 149) : Cobus has his strong points but on the negative side he is still a cowboy. Maybe every 3rd game he should start but Claasens level head should be the brick and mortar. You cannot deny Cobus explosive nature but isn’t that what impact is all about?

  • Comment 153, posted at 29.03.16 13:55:49 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @Nostraseth (Comment 150) :
    It’s not semantics. The fact that you think it is is amusing.

    The point is that the structures and players eventually reach an inflection point after a great deal of unrewarded initial investment. It’s a fundamental truism of asset management of any kind. Feel free to look it up.

  • Comment 154, posted at 29.03.16 13:58:12 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 154) : Again I am not debating that, but if that’s the argument you want to make then “overnight” has no quantifiable definition in the context, and you shouldn’t have used it in the first place. You are arguing against a word you first used….

  • Comment 155, posted at 29.03.16 14:00:54 by Nostraseth Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
    NostrasethTeam captain
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 101) : @robdylan (Comment 112) : By Gary Gold himself. On Sharksrugby.

  • Comment 156, posted at 29.03.16 14:01:40 by GreatSharksays Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @Character_Schmarachter (Comment 151) :
    Absolutely; if such changes constitute a reversal or complete change from what had been the strategy/ methods from the preceding years. Agree?

    In other words, even if you appoint a new coach who simply closes the loop on the training/ recruitment that had already been planned/ started by his predecessor and wins a title, I wouldn’t call that an overnight success. Fair enough?

  • Comment 157, posted at 29.03.16 14:02:32 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @Nostraseth (Comment 152) : Correction. Your comment gave your exact insight and knowledge about the game. And you believe your comments are always 100% correct. Therefore your comment does indeed show the level of your knowledge. That is a fact. Zero opinion needed.

  • Comment 158, posted at 29.03.16 14:03:33 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Nostraseth (Comment 156) :
    Never mind guy. You’ve missed it.

  • Comment 159, posted at 29.03.16 14:03:49 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • After finishing 11th and 10th in 2010 and 2011 respectively, Dave Rennie was appointed coach of the Chiefs in 2012 and in that year the Chiefs won Super Rugby for the first time in their franchise’s history.

    While of course many factors remained the same (including playing personnel) it must have been wonderful for Rennie to waltz in from his role as Manawatu ITM coach and win Super Rugby in his first year. Instant success can happen for the right appointment at the right time who brings something different to the table.

  • Comment 160, posted at 29.03.16 14:05:47 by Character_Schmarachter Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 153) : it is not just running game,but the work he does on defence.

  • Comment 161, posted at 29.03.16 14:06:08 by 50shadesofshark Reply

    Team captain
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 157) : kinda like when the Boks won under Peter de Villiers it was always because of Jake’s foundations? :grin: ;-)

  • Comment 162, posted at 29.03.16 14:07:33 by Character_Schmarachter Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @Character_Schmarachter (Comment 162) :
    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    I thought it was cos the senior Boks did the coaching? :wink:

    Actually if I recall correctly his first year on from Jake was a bit of a ‘mare?

    But I would certainly never have defined his Bok team as an overnight success – how could you considering they won the 2007 WC?

  • Comment 163, posted at 29.03.16 14:12:53 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big FishAssistant coach
     
  • @Character_Schmarachter (Comment 161) : the playing personnel was also bolstered and im quite sure you know it was.the chiefs signed sbw,and as @thehound will let you know,success is sure to follow :D

  • Comment 164, posted at 29.03.16 14:16:25 by 50shadesofshark Reply

    Team captain
     
  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 161) : I don’t disagree with that. In fact it’s one of his strong points. But Claasens is also a great defender so if I had to stack them one on one I still think Claasens comes out on top as the current first choice especially where you need to be clinical and consistent. Don’t get me wrong I’m not throwing Cobus away. For me he is currently the impact guy and Claasens the starter.

  • Comment 165, posted at 29.03.16 14:24:53 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 161) : Also, don’t you think Cobus sometimes has a hand in the need for defending more and harder?

  • Comment 166, posted at 29.03.16 14:30:39 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 158) : Well I take comfort in the knowledge that I don’t need to personally attack anyone I debate with :) . Considering I was debating with Rob and in his words “you really do have a very good insight into this game” I think I will survive ;-) .

  • Comment 167, posted at 29.03.16 14:37:36 by Nostraseth Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter Author
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  • Not to divert attention from gold and the sharks but answer me this:did peyper ask for the review after the saders foot-in-touch try?did the crowd reaction and footage on the big screen let him do this?

  • Comment 168, posted at 29.03.16 14:42:20 by 50shadesofshark Reply

    Team captain
     
  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 168) : The foot in touch was missed by the assistant ref. The try was awarded and before the conversion was taken the replay on screen showed the foot in touch. The crowd obviously voiced its displeasure and Peyper asked the TMO to check. He said according to the “protocol”he was allowed to disallow the try up until the point the conversion was taken.

  • Comment 169, posted at 29.03.16 14:46:34 by Character_Schmarachter Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @Nostraseth (Comment 167) : You have shown in the past that you do have good insight. However, your continued attacks on Gold and then that comment about damn luck really starts to make me wonder if i was right in the first place.

  • Comment 170, posted at 29.03.16 14:51:17 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Nostraseth :could you please have a look ifd you can find a stat on how many times the saders played marcell and other sharks players at the ruck around the neck?think that could make for interesting reading and debate.also how many passes and off-loads the saders were allowed to make after each infringement.

  • Comment 171, posted at 29.03.16 14:54:31 by 50shadesofshark Reply

    Team captain
     
  • @Character_Schmarachter (Comment 170) : my question is not about the protocol,ie can this be done.my question is this: why did the tmo not pick this up and have word to peyper?why did the tmo interfere and let peyper know at a line-out that the saders player was played in the air?why did the tmo disallow the sharks try after only just one review?

  • Comment 172, posted at 29.03.16 14:57:46 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @Morné (Comment 133) : Cheika didn’t take all that long to turn the Tahs into a SR winning team, they used to be one of the most boring and safe sides in the comp.

  • Comment 173, posted at 29.03.16 15:02:03 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 174) : the sharks under jw beat that tahs team 30-3 in dbn.don’t know if they were all that exciting.they did start winning more games,though.

  • Comment 174, posted at 29.03.16 15:06:42 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • Call me crazy,but if bissie was still at the sharks(yes,that is the first call-me-crazy),we would have beaten the saders (yes,and that’s the second call-me-crazy :D ).

  • Comment 175, posted at 29.03.16 15:12:19 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 175) : Ja but we would have done it with 13 men as we did the year before at their place,

  • Comment 176, posted at 29.03.16 15:44:20 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 177) : perhaps the saders used that result in prep talk and motivation for the match in dbn the year after in 2015?bissie didnt play last year due to suspension,but was in match 22 at christchurch.not saying one player makes the diffrence.just wanted to make a point in my earlier comment that if bissie was still at the sharks,and imo he was let go prematurelly,an yes it will open up a whole new debate,the sharks would have beaten the saders this past weekend.i

  • Comment 177, posted at 29.03.16 15:52:17 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 177) : imo we did beat them.efinetly drew,because one can never pre-empt the outcome of a goalkick.19-all or 21-19?sure it was hard-fought win without “flowing backline movements and multiple off-loads”,and the score board disagrees :D but it was a win..or at the least a draw.

  • Comment 178, posted at 29.03.16 16:03:16 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 172) : because if I remember correctly the replay which was shown on the big screen after the try was scored was the first replay and therefore the first opportunity to pick it up – the TMO gets the same feed as everyone else.

    The real issue is why didn’t the assistant ref (the touch judge) not pick it up? It was a very close call so I’m not too concerned really, within the bounds of reasonable human error, at least the cameras picked it up and the protocol exists which allowed for the try to be over turned.

  • Comment 179, posted at 29.03.16 16:14:10 by Character_Schmarachter Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @Character_Schmarachter (Comment 180) : your thoughts on ellis striking esterhuizen’s face?red card offence if one uses the rugby law book as the guide.

  • Comment 180, posted at 29.03.16 16:20:50 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 180) : The ref said he would have awarded a penalty for that incident (reversing the previous penalty against the Sharks). Overall nonplussed about it. A yellow card was issued for the more serious incident of shoulder charge to head area in retaliation incident.

  • Comment 181, posted at 29.03.16 16:40:03 by Character_Schmarachter Reply

    Gold's MemberTeam captain
     
  • @Character_Schmarachter (Comment 179) : in the Chiefs match a Chiefs player stepped over the line not even on the line (about half an yard over the touch line) with the assistant ref close to him and the assistant ref missed it completely they did not review it and the try was awarded!

  • Comment 182, posted at 29.03.16 16:47:32 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @Character_Schmarachter (Comment 182) : more serious incident?striking a player in the face is a red card.the shoulder charge onto neck area should then also have been a red card.so not one player but 2 saders off with red cards?im not making this up.these are the rules of the game of rugby,right?

  • Comment 183, posted at 29.03.16 16:48:44 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 128) : I lost mine days ago already.

  • Comment 184, posted at 29.03.16 16:49:01 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 128) : ag Rob there must be at least one in every family!!! Love them and let them be!!!

  • Comment 185, posted at 29.03.16 16:59:04 by JD Reply
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    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 130) : Gold said the same thing after the Stormers game….more ball in hand, we can’t defend for such long periods of time…need a more attacking mindset…2 games later it’s still kick at all costs.

  • Comment 186, posted at 29.03.16 16:59:29 by GreatSharksays Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 134) : it doesn’t change the fact that Cobus is a disaster. Him being excluded from the RWC squad has not taught him a thing.

    Comment edited: admin

  • Comment 187, posted at 29.03.16 17:08:04 by GreatSharksays Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 187) :

    May we guess what the edit was?

    The f-word proceeding disaster perhaps?

  • Comment 188, posted at 29.03.16 17:34:38 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 188) : no, he said something stupid that is not allowed as per the site rules

  • Comment 189, posted at 29.03.16 18:20:13 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • Oh that.

    It’s still a pretty strange post. What was Cobus supposed to have learned from being left out? To play better?
    If that strategy worked I would have been a Bok myself.

  • Comment 190, posted at 29.03.16 19:24:27 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 190) :
    It’s seriously hasn’t clicked yet that this is not the thread to look for rational statements? :wink:

  • Comment 191, posted at 29.03.16 20:07:49 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 101) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 192, posted at 29.03.16 20:42:55 by pastorshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Administrator
    pastorsharkCoach
     
  • @Morné (Comment 104) : Thanks for that…

  • Comment 193, posted at 29.03.16 20:53:28 by pastorshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Administrator
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 130) : @Big Fish (Comment 134) : Thanks for those comments…

  • Comment 194, posted at 29.03.16 21:08:52 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 134) : How do you feel about trying April at 10 instead?

  • Comment 195, posted at 29.03.16 21:09:53 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 190) : That he is not guaranteed the Bok 9 jersey. The game has changed and requires quick scrumhalfs that get to the breakdown and rucks before we commit too many clearners. Meaning we have more guys on their feet waiting to catch the ball or execute moves. Out of all the starting scrumhalfs his clearing game and speed on the pass is the slowest. Gold speaks of momentum rugby…you can’t play moment rugby when operating at a snails pace. This means that your entire attack play is compromised. I will never judge my scrumhalf by how well he can defend. Bull. He must do the core duties well. Flip….how I miss Charl and what I would do to get Faf in the black and white.

  • Comment 196, posted at 29.03.16 21:11:57 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 189) : Apologies guys. Thanks for correcting.

  • Comment 197, posted at 29.03.16 21:12:47 by GreatSharksays Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @Nostraseth (Comment 142) : I will definitely finish my article about that…the Highlanders were ANYTHING but overnight…they had the longest runup to their win of anyone in Super Rugby to this point. Dave Rennie was an instant success at the Chiefs, but he built on a very stable setup in the years prior to that…

  • Comment 198, posted at 29.03.16 21:14:42 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 154) : Absolutely correct…

  • Comment 199, posted at 29.03.16 21:18:16 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 196) : when Reinach does clear he seems to takes a step and our forward posse inevitably waiting to take the ball either at first or second receiver (but usually first) always seem to do so standing still. Because of the slow service this means they are usually enveloped behind the gain line and one or two of these on repeat cycle sees the panic set in and then it’s skop anywhere, doesn’t matter where.

  • Comment 200, posted at 29.03.16 21:19:54 by Character_Schmarachter Reply

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  • @Big Fish (Comment 159) : I feel your pain… :shock::mrgreen:

  • Comment 201, posted at 29.03.16 21:20:12 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 198) : don’t forget to write about Michael Cheika and Ewan McKenzie who both coached their respective teams to first time Super Rugby titles in only their second season!

  • Comment 202, posted at 29.03.16 21:23:55 by Character_Schmarachter Reply

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  • Do we really think we can play a high paced game with a slow scrumhalf?? Watch the Lions vs Chiefs game. Because Faf is so quick, they required at most times 2 to 3 guys to secure their ball as opposed to us that require 4, 5 guys to secure our own ball. Just do the math and ask yourself which approach will result in you having overlaps and reduce risk of losing possession. To me this is simple to see. Amazed that other people don’t see this.

  • Comment 203, posted at 29.03.16 21:24:17 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • @Character_Schmarachter (Comment 202) : Yup…they are in there…I have all the stats lined up and various factors considered…just need to find the time to finish the article off…

  • Comment 204, posted at 29.03.16 21:43:44 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 204) : does it conclude with a wish that Gold will emulate Cheika and McKenzie in this, his second year? :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 205, posted at 29.03.16 21:51:16 by Character_Schmarachter Reply

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  • @pastorshark (Comment 195) :
    I don’t think they can play another newbie right now. You’ve already got a new, young loose trio and a Centre combination that is in their first SR season together. We need a grysbaard at 10 for that reason, before you even get to goal kicking and previous SR exposure. The injury to Pat was probably the one we could least afford.

    @GreatSharksays (Comment 203) :
    I don’t agree that reinach is slow – he is actually very quick around the park. Where I think he has been poor is in throwing some slow, loopy passes and often making the wrong decisions in terms of direction, when to go wide etc.

    With regard to the slow ball to forwards, I think people are underestimating the newness of the pack. A 9 can only pass to guys making themselves available in good positions, and while our guys have done very well on defensive alignment, they are lacking in that area. In addition, we are missing the carrying ability of guys like Bismark and Alberts. Chilli and Potgieter could really add value there. It’s also one reason why Coenie is favored as a starter ahead of the better scrummaging ability of Adriaanse.

  • Comment 206, posted at 29.03.16 22:00:38 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 206) : re the ‘newness of the pack’ do you mean new combinations or new (inexperienced) players?

    The only rookie players in that pack are Marais and the Du Preez twins with the occasional cameo off the bench from Andrews. Beast, Coenie, Adriaanse, Oosthuizen, Lewies, Van der Walt and Coetzee are all fairly to very experienced. I’m assuming you must mean newness as a combination… but they’ve now played 7 games together. How long does it take? Also, it’s not rocket science?

  • Comment 207, posted at 29.03.16 22:16:16 by Character_Schmarachter Reply

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  • @Big Fish (Comment 206) : He can sprint for sure just wish he could sprint from ruck to ruck and then add speed and accuracy to his passing game. He is currently causing a bottleneck between ruck and first receiver. No momentum can be achieved.

  • Comment 208, posted at 29.03.16 22:38:54 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • @Character_Schmarachter (Comment 207) :
    Bit of both – hookers, locks and flanks are also not very experienced. But it’s more about experience playing together as a unit.

    It usually takes more than a season to gel a pack and get them used to their and their team mates’ roles, strengths and weaknesses, not to mention the dynamic of each new team and game. Recruiting veterans speeds it up – hence vd Walt, Potgieter and Chilli.

    One of the biggest issues on attack is the loss of our main strike runners – Alberts and Bismark primarily, but even open field runners like Kanko and Daniel (I know he is working his way back now). They usually put their hand up to receive the ball and generated that all important momentum we are missing right now. PSDT was another in that class.

  • Comment 209, posted at 29.03.16 22:48:48 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 209) : re the absence of carriers – this isn’t helped by what appears to be an alarming tendency by the Du Preez brothers to cough up possession in contact. Hopefully they can fix that.

  • Comment 210, posted at 29.03.16 22:51:31 by Character_Schmarachter Reply

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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 208) :
    I agree that he’s not playing at the standard we really need to get the best out of our attack. But I think his good boot, defence and ability to make something out of nothing are critical right now, given gaps elsewhere. Once Pat returns, we may see changes.

  • Comment 211, posted at 29.03.16 22:52:38 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 211) : when last did he make something out of nothing? What is his core responsibility on the field? Can Pat transform bad ball into good ball for his outside backs? Mate, not even Carter can do that.

  • Comment 212, posted at 29.03.16 22:58:45 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • @Character_Schmarachter (Comment 210) :
    True – but that’s why I say it takes time even though you are right that it isn’t rocket science.

    It’s a matter of adjusting to the speed and intensity of the game, getting used to that and your team mates so you know whether it’s worth forcing that 50/50 pass or that blind alley line break (are your support runners and cleaners quick enough and/ or are they even going to realise and be ready for what you are doing fast enough).

    The bros are fantastic talents with the speed, strength and skills to dominate in the future – but they are still learning the game at this level at this time.

    I think very often we focus on the incredible talents of guys Carter, SBW, Read and McCaw and forget all the secondary work their team mates to do allow them to shine like that.

    The running of the right lines, discipline and structure on defence, etc are just as critical enablers, but don’t get as much attention. It’s where I see one of the biggest gaps in SA coaching. It’s what our Sharks still need to get right.

  • Comment 213, posted at 29.03.16 23:04:52 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 212) :
    Calm down; I’m suggesting that they may change the 9 when Pat returns.

    I haven’t seen him make a good break in a while, but he has defended well and his clearance kicks are much better than Joe or Willie’s.

    I rate Classens quite highly so I believe there must be a plan behind the current selections. I also really rate Ungerer from what I saw of him as a junior.

  • Comment 214, posted at 29.03.16 23:10:47 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 191) :

    Very funny.
    You had me checking the date there.

    And on that subject. If SARU decides to announce the new coach on Friday it’s going to make for an interesting media day.

  • Comment 215, posted at 30.03.16 00:30:06 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 206) : Yeah, fair comment…

  • Comment 216, posted at 30.03.16 06:42:34 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Anyone seen the Bismarck try for Montpelier?…seems Spies recaptured a hunger for rugby, doing most of the hard work (he even ran through an actual defender – I checked, he wasn’t made of polystyrene :) ).

    Clearly shows how poor French rugby is, when even JW’s team plays running rugby. :twisted:

  • Comment 217, posted at 30.03.16 07:22:25 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @fyndraai (Comment 215) : I don’t expect any surprises on that one almost a certainty that it would be A C does anyone know who is officially in the running? It’s strange that they wouldn’t even advertise the candidates is it because the decision has been taken long ago already?

  • Comment 218, posted at 30.03.16 07:30:59 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 218) : I guess the saruminati had their secret list of candidates, whom they put through a rigourous “right of passage”…. the person that finally sold his soul to them shall be revealed on April fools day – coincidence, I think not :)

  • Comment 219, posted at 30.03.16 07:36:50 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @fyndraai (Comment 215) : In essence, April’s fool will be the new Bok coach….

  • Comment 220, posted at 30.03.16 07:39:46 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 218) : I also cant see it being anyone besides Alistair Coetzee. Unless its Johan Van Graan…

  • Comment 221, posted at 30.03.16 07:47:09 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 209) : The Sharks had to make do without Alberts and PSDT (both great players when uninjured and on form) for huge parts of the previous two seasons. I agree Bismarck is a huge loss to Sharks, but more because of his mongrel in the tight loose and his set piece work.

    The Dup (apart from issues with holding onto the ball in contact) brothers and vd Walt all showed they can provide go forward ball and run some pretty good support lines on top of it. Coenie is actually a very destructive runner too – in fact he and then Ettas created some good momentum in one movement against the Crusaders. There is plenty to work with there, but some issues that need ironing out for sure.

    The issue for me is that the team started with more emphasis on a ball in hand approach (when appropriate) in the first two games, They did hit a snag in especially the Jag game by coughing up possession, and then went back into their shells by going back to a kick first mentality. At least against the Stormers and Bulls the Sharks did put together a few phases at stages and created some scoring opportunities.

    I get the impression that the team went into the Crusaders game giving the Saders way too much respect. Maybe the humidity factor in Durban (which the Saders disproved in any case) made them decide not to play with the ball. Maybe the humiliating loss of last year.

    It is a fact that the Saders forwards bossed ours, but for me it was more a case in the set pieces (to be expected) and in protecting their ball at ruck time. Their cleaning out at rucks are at a different level – I think we managed one ruck turnover in the whole game.

    They prevented our forwards from getting anywhere the few times we tried, but that is also partly our own fault – very slow ball passed to a forward with a standing start.

    The issue for me is that Gold continuously talks of having to hold onto the ball for longer, but what we see on the field is something else altogether – kicking away most balls as quickly as possible. I still believe we don’t have the players that can execute that sort of game well – which then makes it a very risky approach.

    I don’t think anyone is suggesting running every ball from your own goal line, but the Sharks need to start holding onto the ball for longer periods of time (or at least try to). And the team needs to start doing it right now – not wait for this or that star player to return.

    You cannot improve your attacking play, if you don’t try to attack. I would be very happy if the Sharks gets as far as qualifying for a QF spot this year – to me this year is to build for next year. The Sharks defense is now in place – the commentators keep mentioning how hard the players work to get into position. We now need to start working on holding onto the ball for longer, work as hard on attack and build more pressure on the other teams.

  • Comment 222, posted at 30.03.16 07:57:15 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 222) : Pretty good comment that. I agree that the Saders ruck cleaning didnt allow us to get near the ball- and thats because NZ teams clean past the ball thus not allowing the opposition near it and at the same time creating momentum and quick ball and players are forced to run onto the ball. Trying to read between the lines with Golds comments about ball in hand and territory i think he wants the sharks to win possession in the opposition half and then keep the ball in hand…i could be wrong but thats the feeling i get if i see how focused we are on defense and even our warm up drills for the backs are about ball in hand from turnovers.

  • Comment 223, posted at 30.03.16 08:13:48 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 222) :
    @SheldonK (Comment 223) :
    Good comments.

    My opinion is that Sheldon is right: Gold wants a fundamental of rugby in place – attack in the right part of the field (territory) and with the right ball (momentum). The former requires a good kicking and the latter requires good gain line successes – neither of which we were able to generate.

    Regarding ball carriers – there are always a few key guys used to punch holes in opposition defences when set. Apart from injury, these guys have usually been Albert, Bismark, Deysel and PSDT – just consider who would normally get the ball first in a set defensive situation.

    Right now we don’t have that calibre of ball carrier. Vd Walt isn’t that kind of runner and the twins are still adjusting. Coenie seems to be focusing his energy in other areas of the game too. That said, I think a bit of time together will see the latter 3 fill the roles more, while the recruits will also help.

  • Comment 224, posted at 30.03.16 09:16:09 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 224) : Building on the first part of your comment. With the all round stuff up that was 2015 i think Gold and Co. are looking for the Sharks to play solid rugby with good basics and then bank of the individual player for the flashy moments. But as you say we arent executing that exceptionally well. And i think the biggest concern for management will be the amount of ball we lose in the tackle and ruck area. Our kick chases seem to be getting better, even if the odd wayward kick is there. As you say we dont really have the big barn storming runners and the guys we do currently have seem a bit fragile in the contact area when they do carry the ball. In the French games our forwards, especially the loosies, passed the ball a lot…perhaps thats where we need to get back to.

  • Comment 225, posted at 30.03.16 09:29:34 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 224) :
    @SheldonK (Comment 225) :

    I think you are pinpointing the problem here. In the past we relied on big guys like Alberts and PSDT to smash the defenders. That unfortunately also put a lot of stress on their bodies – hence all the injuries to especially an Alberts.

    I think we had some success with the twins (bar their problems with keeping the ball in contact) and vd Walt in the early games because they attacked gaps, ran very good support lines and tried to pass or off-load the ball a lot. We need to try the same (also using Esterhuyzen and JPP more in that role) against the stronger defenses and start working on the issues of how to protect the ball and when to off-load and when to go to ground. As Sheldon also mentioned, the cleaning at rucks need to improve, and the resulting ball from rucks will be much cleaner and quicker.

  • Comment 226, posted at 30.03.16 10:05:52 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 217) : If the foundation has been laid, JW does actually move on to a more adventurous game…I habe feeling Montpellier are just about at that point. They are now only 2 points behind the log leaders. JW looks like a good investment…

  • Comment 227, posted at 30.03.16 10:12:45 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 222) : Good comment…

  • Comment 228, posted at 30.03.16 10:16:32 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 226) : im 100% in agreement there. I think you have hit the nail on the head regarding the issues the Sharks need to address in 2016 if they want to win more games against good sides.

  • Comment 229, posted at 30.03.16 10:19:33 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 225) : saw some saders play sharks players around the neck at some breakdowns.not penalised.got away with it.only if this was ddone 2 or 3 times,it builds momentum.how many carries,passes,off-loads,phases,sharks tackles occured after indiscretions not penalised?

  • Comment 230, posted at 30.03.16 10:45:01 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 230) : If you take a magnifying glass to each ruck im sure you would find at least 3 penalties at each one. So tough to really moan about. If e were more physical and cleaned past the ball it wouldnt be an issue.

  • Comment 231, posted at 30.03.16 10:51:24 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Big Fish (Comment 226) : attacking play can result from any part of the field if the situation is right.attacking play is not dependent on where possession is,

  • Comment 232, posted at 30.03.16 10:57:43 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 233) : no it is an issue.the all blacks most probably won a rwc because of that happening in the semi vs boks.the rules are there for a reason and must be applied.

  • Comment 233, posted at 30.03.16 11:02:10 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 233) : if a defending team is 1m offside,will you argue that attacking team should change the depth their backline is attacking fromv

  • Comment 234, posted at 30.03.16 11:04:13 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • If we need to assess the sharks performance against the saders fairly ,we need to be objective to both sides.must one teaam’s indiscretions be overlooked because “they wanted to play rugby”?because how much did their indiscretions stop the other team from “pplaying rugby”?

  • Comment 235, posted at 30.03.16 11:09:13 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 233) : @50shadesofshark (Comment 234) : Every team and player pushes the boundaries. If they getting away with it well then no use complaining, have to deal with it. Its not like people are going to make NZ give back the RWC because they held a couple players at the ruck. A ref cannot see everything, its impossible.Im sure the Sharks arent squeaky clean either

  • Comment 236, posted at 30.03.16 11:14:57 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 238) : we cannot wipe one team’s indiscretions away by saying the other isn’t without error.im quite sure the sharks were penalised for their indiscretions- and even for 2 of the saders at scrums :D

  • Comment 237, posted at 30.03.16 11:20:06 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • Anyway,striking a player in the face is a red card offence.

  • Comment 238, posted at 30.03.16 11:22:39 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 237) : @50shadesofshark (Comment 238) : Look i get what you are saying by the officials missing things and rules are rules. But what can really be done after the fact? Im talking more about the slight ruck indiscretions than any real foul play. As i said im sure the Sharks arent squeaky clean at every ruck and chances are if you arent winning the majority of the rucks the ref will be looking more closely at what you are doing if you do win a ruck.

  • Comment 239, posted at 30.03.16 11:29:14 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 241) :i do not want to go on and on about this,but playing a player around the neck is foul play,not a slight ruck indiscretion.

  • Comment 240, posted at 30.03.16 11:40:26 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 240) : Why hasnt any citing commission picked it up then?

  • Comment 241, posted at 30.03.16 12:02:53 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 243) : now that is a very good question.

  • Comment 242, posted at 30.03.16 12:10:26 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 242) : The game tapes are all reviewed. Must be that they dont deem those specific incidents worthy of citing? It still doesnt change the result though

  • Comment 243, posted at 30.03.16 12:18:52 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 245) : you saw the incident for yourself,right?you have a copy of the law book of rugby?is there a history with such incidents involving sa players/sa teams in superrugby..?

  • Comment 244, posted at 30.03.16 12:29:08 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 245) : yes,it does not change the result,but this and other incidents need to be taken into account if an objective review of both teams performance is to be made

  • Comment 245, posted at 30.03.16 12:32:45 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 244) : Look i only watched the game live so cant recall the exact incident..cant remember players making a fuss about it. The ref and assistant and TMO and then the reviewer didnt deem it necessary to make a deal of it. It cant change the result…it wont change how the teams and players perform the next game. So for me we just have to accept they got one over us

  • Comment 246, posted at 30.03.16 12:34:37 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 248) : yes,and that getting one over us plus a few others they got over us impacted the game’s flow and perception of both teams performance.

  • Comment 247, posted at 30.03.16 13:06:54 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 247) : So basically you saying they bullied the Sharks and that impacted on the Sharks performance?

  • Comment 248, posted at 30.03.16 13:13:00 by SheldonK Reply

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