robdylan

Creevy banned for Deysel neck tackle


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks, Super Rugby on 16 May 2016 at 09:58
Tagged with : , , ,

Los Jaguares will travel to South Africa to face the Lions and Kings under something of a cloud, with captain Agustin Creevy already ruled out of the opening game. Number eight Leonardo Senatore, a key member of their pack, may also be facing a spell on the sidelines.

Both players were cited after alleged acts of foul play against the Sharks; Creevy’s was a dangerous tackle that led to Sharks flank Jean Deysel being carried off on a stretcher. The Jaguares captain has already pleaded guilty to the offence, with the Judicial Officer accepting that the tackles was neither intentionally dangerous nor malicious. A single-week suspensions was applied and Creevy will be able to lead the team against the Kings in the final game before the international break.

Senatore’s case is far murkier; the loose forward is alleged to have bitten Keegan Daniel at the bottom of a ruck and if found guilty at the hearing to be held a little later today, I’d be rather surprised if we saw him play again this season.

Deysel, we’re told, suffered no serious harm, despite the rather dramatic way he left the field on Saturday. A CT and MRI scan have cleared him of any damage to the neck and while he may need a week or two to recover from some nerve damage, he’ll be right as rain by the time the Sharks resume their campaign after the break.

The Sharks arrive back in Durban today and will head straight into preparations for their home match against the Kings this weekend.



108 Comments

  • pity these idiots had to get themselves banned before facing the Lions

  • Comment 1, posted at 16.05.16 10:03:01 by robdylan Reply
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  • Not exactly consolation for the Sharks though. It will only help the Lions to face an understrength Jaguares side. When are the refs going to cited for not picking up such incidents during the games? I’m not normally blaming refs, but Marius van der Westhuizen had two shocking weekends in a row. He is not nearly thorough or strict enough to be a match official.

  • Comment 2, posted at 16.05.16 10:03:31 by boertjie101 Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • Look, I’m no fan of Creevy. I think he’s petulant and niggly – but I think he’s hard done by.

    Even reading the Judicial Officer’s full explanation, there’s not a single mention of him having done anything illegal. By his own admission the tackle was around the shoulders, there was no lift, it was accidental, and Deysel’s momentum played a big role.

    I can’t say I like the recent trend of the outcome influencing disciplinary action. We can’t just start banning guys for every tackle that leads to an injury.

  • Comment 3, posted at 16.05.16 10:08:59 by Shakes34 Reply

    Shakes34Under 21 player
     
  • @boertjie101 (Comment 2) : Has Marius van der Westhuizen ever had a weekend that could not be described as ‘shocking’

    He’s biased, incompetent and does not deserve to ref a high school game

  • Comment 4, posted at 16.05.16 10:12:32 by Die Kriek Reply

    Super Rugby player
     
  • @Shakes34 (Comment 3) : That was not the first judo tackle like that in the game – grabbing the player by the shoulders and then falling backwards pulling the player with as you fall. Dan was tackled in a similar way earlier and luckily he managed to roll over as he fell.

  • Comment 5, posted at 16.05.16 10:18:11 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • Speaking of cards and citings etc. I found it interesting that in the Sharks/Canes game there was a late shoulder charge on Mvovo and the ref said it was just late so only a penalty nothing more. This weekend in the Highlanders game there was also a late shoulder charge after a kick..not even as late at the one on Mvovo and the ref said because it was late and with the shoulder it is a definite yellow card. Got to love the consistency

  • Comment 6, posted at 16.05.16 10:19:10 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 6) : I made the same comparison to some friends on Friday.

    I was annoyed with Marius’s explanation during Canes game that “it only ticked one of the boxes, in that it was late”. Even if Mvovo had still HAD the ball it would have been a cardable “tackle” – therefore surely ticking another box?

  • Comment 7, posted at 16.05.16 10:22:34 by Shakes34 Reply

    Shakes34Under 21 player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 6) : Yep,saw and heard that in both games – clearly the ref in the Kiwi game had better eyesight than our man.

  • Comment 8, posted at 16.05.16 10:24:04 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Shakes34 (Comment 7) : @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 8) : It amazes me that the interpretations can vary so much in instances like that. I get that the scrum/breakdown is a debate but the rest should be pretty clear cut. Im amazed at some of the tries awarded/not awarded. Also seems to be some serious language barriers in the team of officials.

  • Comment 9, posted at 16.05.16 10:26:56 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 1) : this.

  • Comment 10, posted at 16.05.16 10:32:55 by gregkaos Reply
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  • Still find it bizarre that we encounter biting in professional rugby. My almost two year old daughter has already managed to unlearn it.

  • Comment 11, posted at 16.05.16 10:42:20 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 6) : Well at the very least they are consistently inconsistent. :roll: But yes what are we as supporters to do when this happens week in and week out. Sooner rather than later this holier than thou image of the referees must end.

  • Comment 12, posted at 16.05.16 10:56:38 by Farlington Reply

    FarlingtonSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Farlington (Comment 12) : Not much will and can change. To be fair there are some good referees out there. I just cant believe how every conversation with the TMO sounds like a parent talking to a kid with special needs. Can these guys not just talk and say what happened instead of relaying this confusing message.

  • Comment 13, posted at 16.05.16 11:00:55 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 9) : 1 or 2 is OK, but 5…

  • Comment 14, posted at 16.05.16 11:17:15 by Southern_Shark Reply
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  • @Southern_Shark (Comment 14) : ja, come on. Stupidest thing I’ve ever heard a ref say

  • Comment 15, posted at 16.05.16 11:23:36 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 1) : for sure but the way the Lions is going I can’t see the Jaguars beating them even if they’re full strength. Sharks best chance of making playoffs is overtaking Bulls.

  • Comment 16, posted at 16.05.16 11:29:38 by JD Reply
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  • any idea what time they arrive?

  • Comment 17, posted at 16.05.16 11:32:46 by Jeremiser Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 13) : Hahaha…Special needs kid. Thanks for cheering me up on a chilly Monday morning. I agree that not all refs are below par and it’s not always easy keeping an eye on everything happening at this level. My gripe however is more with TMO’s as you pointed out where they still get blatant obvious decisions wrong and what I sometimes think how a ref interprets a law and how it might differ from one ref to another.

  • Comment 18, posted at 16.05.16 11:35:04 by Farlington Reply

    FarlingtonSuper Rugby player
     
  • @JD (Comment 16) : Well it looks rosy for us seeing as the Bulls must still play the Lions and Stormers.

  • Comment 19, posted at 16.05.16 11:36:44 by Farlington Reply

    FarlingtonSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Farlington (Comment 18) : Agreed…it amazes me how TMO’s often get a simple decision so wrong. And then yeh as i said when they communicate a decision its like they have never spoken the english language before

  • Comment 20, posted at 16.05.16 11:49:03 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Southern_Shark (Comment 14) : @robdylan (Comment 15) : Im sure he was talking distance, and not players, as in stealing 1 or 2 metres is forgiveable as opposed to stealing 5 metres.

  • Comment 21, posted at 16.05.16 11:59:16 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Jeremiser (Comment 17) : midday

  • Comment 22, posted at 16.05.16 12:02:14 by robdylan Reply
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  • The Creevy tackle was dangerous because he basically pulled him head down as I remember – same outcome as a tip tackle.

    I also think that if it’s a dominant tackle, then such an outcome can be due to the “dynamic situation” mitigation that gets trotted out every so often. When the tackler is dominated however, I question a lack of intention in pulling the runner down head first – should have got 2 weeks in my opinion.

  • Comment 23, posted at 16.05.16 12:09:38 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Southern_Shark (Comment 14) : He should’ve used that logic at the ruck area…seems there 1 or 2 constituted a penalty, 5 made it fair play. :roll:

  • Comment 24, posted at 16.05.16 12:11:54 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Big Fish (Comment 23) : Someone here mentioned judo style tackle. Which yeah I think is quite dangerous.

  • Comment 25, posted at 16.05.16 12:24:32 by gregkaos Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 22) : Rob any info on the newest Supersport story that link the twins with a move to Toulon?

  • Comment 26, posted at 16.05.16 12:49:25 by JD Reply
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  • Du Preez Twins apparently close to signing with Toulon.

  • Comment 27, posted at 16.05.16 12:50:50 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 27) : They will never play for the Boks if they do…

  • Comment 28, posted at 16.05.16 12:52:45 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Big Fish (Comment 23) : @gregkaos (Comment 25) : please don’t kill me but I think sometimes tackles like the one of Deysel could be caused by the runner running over an opponent that then drag him down. I’m not saying it’s not dangerous or should not result in a ban all I’m saying is there is (sometimes) mitigating factors that must be taken into account. Although it looked bad and was dangerous I’m reasonably happy with only a one week ban.

  • Comment 29, posted at 16.05.16 12:57:50 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 29) : I’m satisfied with the ban. (Sort of cos I want him to play against the Stormers) I don’t think it was intentionally malicious.
    I wouldn’t like to see tacklers start using this technique.

  • Comment 30, posted at 16.05.16 13:04:46 by gregkaos Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 26) : I don’t see that on Supersport. Saw it on a French site over the weekend and dismissed it as spurious.

    Twins are out of contract (they only signed for a year) but Sharks are obviously going to throw money at them to stay. Will ahve to see what they decide to do, but I can guarantee you that the Toulon offer won’t be the only one.

  • Comment 31, posted at 16.05.16 13:08:29 by robdylan Reply
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  • @gregkaos (Comment 30) : for sure would not like to see guys going for a deliberate “judo throw” tackle. Another “tackle” that’s worrying is the “shoulder dive” to the opponents knee.
    Personally I’m also happy with one week ban as it shows it is unacceptable without losing sight that it could have been accidental.

  • Comment 32, posted at 16.05.16 13:14:53 by JD Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 31) : it’s under SA rugby news. Yes for sure I believe there will be lots of offers (for large amounts of money) for both of them! Really hope Sharks will be able to resign them at least for a couple of years, but I think it will take a large part of the money saved from Marcell and JPP’s contracts to keep them in Durban!

  • Comment 33, posted at 16.05.16 13:19:59 by JD Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 28) : I fear that’s not the drawing card it used to be. :|

  • Comment 34, posted at 16.05.16 13:37:10 by Southern_Shark Reply
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  • @Southern_Shark (Comment 34) : Very fair point

  • Comment 35, posted at 16.05.16 13:44:41 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @JD (Comment 33) : If they leave I’ll be absolutely devastated. I hope Rob snr can speak to them as he did a year or so ago about not being ready for Super Rugby and they listen. They’ve got to be keen to continue on in a union where dad is in the coaching box, they have a very real chance of Springbok honours and can continue to be selected in the starting 15. What are the chances of continually being started in a star studded Toulon team, especially when Thor is in the side.

  • Comment 36, posted at 16.05.16 13:46:25 by Hulk Reply

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  • @Southern_Shark (Comment 34) : Too true, but even so I feel strongly that only SA based players should be eligible to play for SA.

  • Comment 37, posted at 16.05.16 13:47:52 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Hulk (Comment 36) : At Toulon if Vermuelen and Armitage are fit they will play majority of the games..as will Juan Smith.

  • Comment 38, posted at 16.05.16 13:51:21 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Hulk (Comment 36) : When I read that they had signed my immediate reaction was that if true then things in that coaching box are not very rosy when it comes to RdP snr. If they went Im sure it would mean that he too would be on his way out soon. Pure speculation but thats how I would read it.

  • Comment 39, posted at 16.05.16 13:51:42 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 37) : Coetzee should just cap them both off the bench in the first test.

  • Comment 40, posted at 16.05.16 14:11:38 by Southern_Shark Reply
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  • @gregkaos (Comment 30) : There was a similar tackle on Dan du Preez by a different player, so I almost got the idea that it may have been practiced this way – e.g. using a big guy’s momentum to pull him down.

  • Comment 41, posted at 16.05.16 14:13:45 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Southern_Shark (Comment 40) : As far as i know they arent eligible to play for any other Nation. So not sure why capping them would make them stay unless they got Bok contracts which is unlikely at this stage

  • Comment 42, posted at 16.05.16 14:15:21 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • So what is Deysel and Claasens injury status?

  • Comment 43, posted at 16.05.16 14:15:49 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 42) : Is our U/20 side seen as SA’s next senior side – making the twins ineligible to play for e.g. France?

  • Comment 44, posted at 16.05.16 14:22:39 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 44) : I think that is, indeed, the deal these days.

  • Comment 45, posted at 16.05.16 14:26:35 by Shakes34 Reply

    Shakes34Under 21 player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 42) : Does u/20 make you ineligible? This is just my personal opinion but, I think if they leave now it will be to play international rugby somewhere else.

  • Comment 46, posted at 16.05.16 14:34:25 by Southern_Shark Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 44) : @Southern_Shark (Comment 46) : Yeh it is my understanding that having represented the u20 side in the last few years makes a player ineligible for any other nation

  • Comment 47, posted at 16.05.16 14:36:08 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Shakes34 (Comment 45) : Yep, fairly new, only since the last year or so.

  • Comment 48, posted at 16.05.16 14:36:24 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 47) : It does get interesting because for the first time in a long time there will be an SA “A” side picked this year if im not mistaken…

  • Comment 49, posted at 16.05.16 14:37:13 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 47) : Damn, Sharks only have 2 players in that squad! :???:

  • Comment 50, posted at 16.05.16 14:39:03 by Southern_Shark Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 47) : Well there goes that theory. :razz: If i Had 20 year old twin boys with great prospects and the way SA is going….I’d tell them to Skype often. ;-)

  • Comment 51, posted at 16.05.16 14:47:58 by Southern_Shark Reply
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  • @Southern_Shark (Comment 51) : Cant argue with you there…

  • Comment 52, posted at 16.05.16 14:51:40 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Southern_Shark (Comment 40) : @SheldonK (Comment 42) : @Bokhoring (Comment 44) : @Shakes34 (Comment 45) : under20′s is officially nominated as the SA “B” side (and has been for a couple of years now) so if a player plays for SA under20′s he’s not allowed to play for another country. If my memory is correct that’s why Tim Swiel decided to decline an invitation to the under20 trails. Thus the twins are unable to play for any other country even if they live there until they’re in their 30′s. Also I think capping a player just to ensure he can’t play for another team is really disgusting and low class!

  • Comment 53, posted at 16.05.16 15:11:27 by JD Reply
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  • du Preez twins are already tied to SA. They cannot play test rugby for any other country.

  • Comment 54, posted at 16.05.16 15:14:13 by robdylan Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 43) : not sure about Claassens but seems as if Deysel is ok (according to article “Creevy banned for Deysel neck tackle”) but don’t think he will play next week.

  • Comment 55, posted at 16.05.16 15:17:48 by JD Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 54) : thanx Rob any news on the other Argie citing?

  • Comment 56, posted at 16.05.16 15:19:33 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 53) : @robdylan (Comment 54) : With the u20s designated as the official 2nd side…does that mean those that play for the SA “A” side that is to be picked are then not bound as that side is not designated?

  • Comment 57, posted at 16.05.16 15:22:29 by SheldonK Reply

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  • Very little news on Claasens. But in that vein I wonder if sharks will dual role Curwin Bosch to be a scrummie and flyhalf. Seeing slot slot in nicely made me think we could do with another michalak kockott type hybrid.

  • Comment 58, posted at 16.05.16 15:39:11 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @JD (Comment 53) : I know ;-) Forgot this face :arrow: :mrgreen: after my comment.

  • Comment 59, posted at 16.05.16 15:44:52 by Southern_Shark Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 58) : The guy that should have done that transition was Fred Zeilinga…too late now though. I have a feeling Bosch is being lined up to play 15…

  • Comment 60, posted at 16.05.16 15:44:54 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 60) : Pity he is quick and could be for us what faf is for lions and what Coleman could have been for stormers. Personally I think Pat and Garth should be 10 and 15 and rotate depending on the opposition and circumstances with Tedder being their reserve (if he stayed) I also hope we do consider a slightly bigger guy at 15 like Jaco van Tonder.

  • Comment 61, posted at 16.05.16 15:58:57 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 61) : You are assuming LeRoux is leaving then? Alcino Isaacs the CC 15 is pretty decent i believe, just never seems to get a look in (think he is the new Van Tonder). Also Morne Jourbert is another big fullback with lots of potential

  • Comment 62, posted at 16.05.16 16:03:16 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 6) :

    There were also the 2 disallowed Crusader tries that were very similar to recently TMO awarded tries here in South Africa. Referee interpretations between SA and NZ seem to be diverging. Perhaps because of the reduction in inter-conference games.

  • Comment 63, posted at 16.05.16 16:27:25 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 31) : What do you mean out of contract? Someone is sleeping on the job. They should have been given a 5 year contract after the French tour in Feb.

  • Comment 64, posted at 16.05.16 16:57:25 by GreatSharksays Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 62) : Well le roux is only here for supers for sharks to stay consistent we need more sa based guys in the squad.

  • Comment 65, posted at 16.05.16 16:58:06 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @GreatSharksays (Comment 64) : you realise it takes two sides to conclude a contract?

    Sharks of course wanted to sign the twins on 5 year contracts – probably 10, let’s be honest – but the kids wouldn’t sign for more than a year.

  • Comment 66, posted at 16.05.16 17:18:33 by robdylan Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 56) : He got 10 weeks.

  • Comment 67, posted at 16.05.16 17:33:45 by Ben Reply
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  • @robdylan: the twins only wanted to sign for one year?before or after the the appointment of rdp,sr to the sharks coaching staff?

  • Comment 68, posted at 16.05.16 17:58:08 by 50shadesofshark Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 66) : Can’t blame young talent for keeping overseas options open though….can’t see them wai ing for a streamers contract, they’re clearly smarter than their older boet. :twisted:

  • Comment 69, posted at 16.05.16 18:01:48 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • How was Senatore’s good disciplinary record used as mitigating factor, to deduct 4weeks from his ban, when they added two weeks to the initial 12 week ban, because of a previous biting incident?!

  • Comment 70, posted at 16.05.16 18:31:51 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 70) : SANZAAR logic

  • Comment 71, posted at 16.05.16 18:58:34 by robdylan Reply
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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 68) : I don’t think their dad tells them where to play. Twins were reticent because of
    a) how shit the Sharks were last year
    and
    b) the fact that so many senior journeyman loose forwards were signed ahead of them

  • Comment 72, posted at 16.05.16 18:59:26 by robdylan Reply
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  • @50shadesofshark (Comment 68) : @FireTheLooser (Comment 69) : @robdylan (Comment 72) : ja hope this year’s better team performance as well as both of them getting lots of game time will be enough to persuade them to sign a longer deal with the Sharks.

  • Comment 73, posted at 16.05.16 21:06:19 by JD Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 70) : @robdylan (Comment 71) : WTF?!?!?!?!

  • Comment 74, posted at 16.05.16 21:08:04 by JD Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 70) : @robdylan (Comment 71) : Sometimes SANZAAR sucks as much as MAArius van der Westhuizen…

  • Comment 75, posted at 16.05.16 22:20:24 by pastorshark Reply
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  • I’m sorry, but in my book if I guy has a previous biting incident on his record and he bites again he can sit out for 6 months…third time, banned for life…

  • Comment 76, posted at 16.05.16 22:21:29 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 76) : sorry to say but the second time should already be a live ban as he had his chance/warning the first time!

  • Comment 77, posted at 17.05.16 07:36:21 by JD Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 65) : Very fair point. I think the Sharks CC selection could prove very interesting. Youngsters may only get 1 shot at showing whether they good enough or not…

  • Comment 78, posted at 17.05.16 07:54:25 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 71) : @pastorshark (Comment 75) : @JD (Comment 74) : Seems Senatore is such a lekker ou, sanszaajararrar couldn’t help but to deduct 4 weeks….or he threatened to eat their children. :twisted:

  • Comment 79, posted at 17.05.16 08:10:15 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 79) : ja seems it’s OK if you bite someone every 3 years as in 2013 Etzebeth was his victim!?

  • Comment 80, posted at 17.05.16 08:27:22 by JD Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 66) : Sharks contracts mean, and are worth shyte, if Marcell Coetzee’s example is anything to go by….signed a 2 year extension but still negotiated an overseas contract while the ink was still drying on the extension. 2, 5, 10 year contracts mean squat if they can be so easily discarded in any case.

  • Comment 81, posted at 17.05.16 09:17:20 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 81) : How exactly do these escape clauses work? Could we not ask a release price like they do in Football?

  • Comment 82, posted at 17.05.16 09:26:05 by Die Kriek Reply

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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 81) : not just Sharks contracts. ALL SA contracts include a clause that require the local team to match a significant foreign offer. Players won’t sign them otherwise.

  • Comment 83, posted at 17.05.16 09:31:39 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 81) : @Die Kriek (Comment 82) : @robdylan (Comment 83) : like Rob said most if not all SA contracts will have such a clause. With agents and even players becoming more “professional” they will “force” the unions to write contracts to favour them more than the unions and if you don’t do it like they want they just sign with another local team that’s willing to agree to their terms.

  • Comment 84, posted at 17.05.16 09:36:28 by JD Reply
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  • @Die Kriek (Comment 82) : I really have no idea, but Robs @robdylan (Comment 83) : comment gives a hint that these escape clauses are standard fare.

  • Comment 85, posted at 17.05.16 09:36:58 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 84) : it’s a player’s market.

  • Comment 86, posted at 17.05.16 09:55:33 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Die Kriek (Comment 82) : @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 85) : as i have it the Sharks have a chance to match or better an offer that a player receives from an overseas team. If the can’t or don’t want to then the player is free to leave without any buyout.
    This excludes other SA teams so no matter what they offer a player, he can’t use the clause to move to another SA based team.

  • Comment 87, posted at 17.05.16 09:57:09 by JD Reply
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  • You cannot force any employee to stay in the face of a better offer – the only protection for an employer can be the option to match.

    How would any of you feel if your employer tried to tie you in such that you could not accept a better offer? I know that most of us are employees and not contractors, but its the same principle.

    The Sharks have not missed a trick; there is just not much they can do in the current economic environment. Lets not give them stick for no good reason.

  • Comment 88, posted at 17.05.16 10:32:05 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 88) : Great comment

  • Comment 89, posted at 17.05.16 10:33:20 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Big Fish (Comment 88) : although I feel you have a valid point there’s also the other side of it. What if you do not perform can the union cut your pay or release you from your contract?!?! I’m willing to bet my year’s salary that that same player/agent will take you to court for breach of contract!
    If you sign a contract you are happy with what is on offer and just because you can later get something better should not allow you to change to it (just think of cellphone contracts or any other service related contract) and it does not matter on what side of the contract you stand (paying or receiving).
    Contracts should be drafted so that BOTH PARTIES are protected and should not be biast towards one party. However these days players/agents know they have unions by the short and curlies and can demand contracts that is written to favor them as they can leave for a better international offer but the union can’t do anything if they do not perform.

  • Comment 90, posted at 17.05.16 11:27:09 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 90) : Even if a union added a clause where they can dock pay for an underperforming player, no player would sign this. At the moment, like Rob said, it’s a player’s market and if a union did try to introduce something like that, the players will just sign for a union that does not have a clause like that.

  • Comment 91, posted at 17.05.16 11:37:48 by HeinF Reply

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  • @HeinF (Comment 91) : that’s exactly the point I’m trying to make! Player contracts are one sided as it mostly protects the player rather than both (player and union).

  • Comment 92, posted at 17.05.16 11:53:40 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 92) : Speaking of Player contracts i see Willie LeRoux is linked with a move to Wasps next year.

  • Comment 93, posted at 17.05.16 12:51:21 by SheldonK Reply

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  • guys…. silly season. Lots of rumours. Don’t take everything at face value

  • Comment 94, posted at 17.05.16 12:59:55 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 94) : No 100%…but often where there is smoke there is fire. Also regarding LeRoux its a bit strange that he hasnt been required to rest yet?

  • Comment 95, posted at 17.05.16 13:06:03 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 93) : @robdylan (Comment 94) : know it’s that time of the year but Willie should be on the radar of European clubs! Hope Sharks can keep him!

  • Comment 96, posted at 17.05.16 13:19:39 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 92) : They definitely are, which is why we paid for the rehab of a very expensive player last year and a few this year, instead of at least getting a little more worth out of them!

  • Comment 97, posted at 17.05.16 13:20:49 by HeinF Reply

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  • @HeinF (Comment 97) : maybe add all the time spent in rehab to the end date of the contract (or they must pay back the medical costs) ;-)
    I know it would never happen in a 100 years but it would be nice!

  • Comment 98, posted at 17.05.16 13:29:30 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 90) :
    What would that look like though? Not easy to objectively say a guy’s performance is unacceptable. Think about how hard it is to fire someone for incompetence in the workplace.

    @robdylan (Comment 94) :
    Whats your feel? You usually have a good handle on these things.

  • Comment 99, posted at 17.05.16 13:30:14 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 88) : This is unusual, I tend to always agree with you BF. Sorry just can not this time. I do work on contractual basis, I am not an employee, and I can not get a private company or government agency to sign a contract without a non-compete clause, it matters not what I am offered, I can not sign a contract with anyone else while the con-compete clause is in effect. My biggest negotiation issue is ensuring the non-compete clause does not extend beyond the length of the contract, I have had potential contract partners try to keep me off the market for up to three years AFTER the contract has run its course. Right now, as Rob said, it is a players market in contracting in SA Rugby, with a little collusion, the unions could change that right fast.

  • Comment 100, posted at 17.05.16 14:33:01 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 100) : While I am not sure of the law in SA, in the US, a non-compete clause is perfectly legal and enforceable as long as it is has a limited time frame AND is limited to a specific geographical area.

  • Comment 101, posted at 17.05.16 14:36:26 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 101) : As far as i am aware you cant enforce a non-compete cause in SA if it deprives a person from earning a living in the way they have been trained. Employees are free to choose employment but i think you can put in a clause saying they are not allowed to use the knowledge they gained at one employer at another competing employer. That clause would be difficult to enforce in terms of a rugby player.

  • Comment 102, posted at 17.05.16 14:54:50 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @JD (Comment 98) : Yes, subtract the medical costs from their contract!

  • Comment 103, posted at 17.05.16 16:26:38 by HeinF Reply

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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 100) :
    :lol: At least we can keep it interesting by disagreeing.

    Before we even get into the detail of it, I would imagine that your non-compete does not extend internationally (possibly not even across states?), and therefore you are no less protected than any SA player leaving for Japan or Europe.

    In addition, restraint of trade clauses normally apply to businesses or people whose services involve exposure to IP or company brands; this would certainly not be the case with rugby players to the same extent (game plans are not really that esoteric). I speak under correction here, but I believe that in most jurisdictions you would struggle to impose a restriction if you cannot show that the company would be prejudiced unfairly by a competitor having exposure to information that the employee/ contractor gained purely by dint of their previous employment.

    As regards employees (as opposed to contractors) I believe that there is no such thing as a non-compete clause. Normal outcome is that you get put on gardening leave until you officially start – thats about it.

  • Comment 104, posted at 17.05.16 16:41:44 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 99) : du Preez twins will stay, Potgieter will go. I can’t make a call on Willie.

    I am told, though, that he enjoys the Sharks, but whether he enjoys the Sharks more than he would enjoy, say, earning a f*ckload of money? Who’s to say?

  • Comment 105, posted at 17.05.16 17:15:58 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 105) :
    :lol: :lol: :lol:

    I reckon he is still early in his Bok career and will stay. After all, he earns Yen already.

  • Comment 106, posted at 17.05.16 17:21:41 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 104) : There are very few service contracts anymore in the US, most are performance and deliverable based contracts. So they are more concerned with me providing the deliverable, I get a base for my time, but if I don’t deliver the deliverable, a vast majority of the contract does not get paid. Would be interesting to have rugby contracts be performance based.

  • Comment 107, posted at 17.05.16 17:23:09 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 99) : point I’m trying to make was that players contracts are very one sided as they have all sorts of clauses and stuff written in to protect them but the union that pays them only have limited protection.
    It’s almost like renting a home where you must give 6 months notice prior to moving but the landlord can give you one day notice to move out!?

  • Comment 108, posted at 17.05.16 17:31:54 by JD Reply
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