robdylan

April is a Bok


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :In the news, Springboks on 28 May 2016 at 19:25

Garth April’s is perhaps one of the more surprising names in Alister Coetzee’s maiden 31-man Bok squad.

The Springbok squad for the Castle Lager Incoming Series (alphabetical order):
Name/Position/Franchise-Club/Test Caps
1. Garth April Flyhalf Cell C Sharks 0
2. Ruan Combrinck Wing Emirates Lions 0
3. Damian de Allende Centre DHL Stormers 13
4. Lood de Jager Lock Toyota Cheetahs 19
5. Faf de Klerk Scrumhalf Emirates Lions 0
6. Pieter-Steph du Toit Lock DHL Stormers 8
7. Eben Etzebeth Lock DHL Stormers 44
8. Nic Groom Scrumhalf DHL Stormers 0
9. Elton Jantjies Flyhalf Emirates Lions 2
10. Steven Kitshoff Prop Bordeaux (France) 0
11. Siya Kolisi Flank DHL Stormers 13
12. Jaco Kriel Flank Emirates Lions 0
13. Jesse Kriel Centre Vodacom Bulls 11
14. Patrick Lambie Flyhalf Cell C Sharks 50
15. Willie le Roux Fullback Cell C Sharks 34
16. Francois Louw Flank Bath (England) 43
17. Frans Malherbe Prop DHL Stormers 12
18. Lionel Mapoe Centre Emirates Lions 1
19. Bongi Mbonambi Hooker DHL Stormers 0
20. Tendai Mtawarira Prop Cell C Sharks 75
21. Lwazi Mvovo Wing Cell C Sharks 15
22. Sikhumbuzo Notshe Flank DHL Stormers 0
23. Scarra Ntubeni Hooker DHL Stormers 0
24. Trevor Nyakane Prop Vodacom Bulls 23
25. Rudy Paige Scrumhalf Vodacom Bulls 2
26. JP Pietersen Wing Cell C Sharks 66
27. Julian Redelinghuys Prop Emirates Lions 2
28. Jan Serfontein Centre Vodacom Bulls 26
29. Adriaan Strauss Hooker Vodacom Bulls 54
30. Duane Vermeulen No 8 Toulon (France) 35
31. Warren Whiteley No 8 Emirates Lions 3



119 Comments

  • A bit perplexing how serfontein, brummer & nyakane made the team. Happy with the make up. Happy for the lions. Interesting point is that the overseas players are ex stormers.

  • Comment 1, posted at 28.05.16 19:27:00 by Dunx Reply
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  • I wonder who the captain is going to be. I reckon Vermeulon

  • Comment 2, posted at 28.05.16 19:28:04 by Dunx Reply
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  • How Mbonambi and Scarra are chosen ahead of Bismarck and Marx is a travesty. Congrats to April and the rest, not the worst squad all things considered

  • Comment 3, posted at 28.05.16 19:33:25 by RuckingFun Reply
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  • Does this effectively mean young April is guaranteed to be be named on the bench. Awesome

  • Comment 4, posted at 28.05.16 19:33:30 by durbsguy Reply
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  • A few exciting names, a few headscratchers, all in all nott the worst squad we’ve seen

  • Comment 5, posted at 28.05.16 19:37:25 by Die Kriek Reply
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  • @durbsguy (Comment 4) : Pretty sure it does

  • Comment 6, posted at 28.05.16 19:38:09 by Die Kriek Reply
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  • Biggest wtf – Nic Groom

  • Comment 7, posted at 28.05.16 19:39:16 by Die Kriek Reply
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  • @Die Kriek (Comment 7) : Ruan and Cobus not available. Can’t think of any other 9s I’d take. Pretty sure Faf and Rudy will be 1st and 2nd choice.

    I’m quite excited by this young squad. think it’s going to be tough in the beginning for AC.

    Freaking huge congrats to Garth!

  • Comment 8, posted at 28.05.16 19:48:12 by gregkaos Reply
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  • Sure as heck a far more exciting squad than HM’s first one – and his kept getting worse with every year. So this could bode well for AC’s teams of the future.

    I feel sorry for Lewies not even making the A side.

  • Comment 9, posted at 28.05.16 20:03:20 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 9) : good point re Lewis.

  • Comment 10, posted at 28.05.16 20:11:16 by gregkaos Reply
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  • Nic Groom, lets be honest, AC was wearing a blue and white striped pair of shades.

  • Comment 11, posted at 28.05.16 20:18:18 by Quintin Reply

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  • Would have liked to see Malcolm Marx ahead of Scarra or Mbonambi.

  • Comment 12, posted at 28.05.16 20:20:45 by Ben Reply
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  • Not a bad squad overall. Glad to see the Lions players FINALLY rewarded.

  • Comment 13, posted at 28.05.16 20:22:56 by Ben Reply
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  • My only prob was hooker and front row selections, and one particular SH.

  • Comment 14, posted at 28.05.16 20:24:50 by Quintin Reply

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  • @gregkaos (Comment 8) : I would have taken Claassens. Yes, he’s old, but he would add some experience to a bunch of inexperienced scrumhalves. Plus he’s a Bok already.

  • Comment 15, posted at 28.05.16 20:25:06 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 15) : yeah fair enough. Probably more to do with players AC knows well to use as backups. His foreign players are only ex WP. Personally don’t mind that. It’s good to have players who know you well as backups in case the fit hits the shan.

  • Comment 16, posted at 28.05.16 20:30:34 by gregkaos Reply
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  • Surprised with no Bismarck and not overly enthused by the loose forwards otherwise no complaints.

  • Comment 17, posted at 28.05.16 20:38:58 by Hulk Reply

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  • I see Johan Ackerman has been named coach of SA-A.

  • Comment 18, posted at 28.05.16 20:39:06 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • No Kolbe shocked he’s not in the squad. Thought AC would select him for sure.

  • Comment 19, posted at 28.05.16 20:41:49 by Hulk Reply

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  • @Hulk (Comment 19) : on sarugby site says he’s on the list of players considered but not available due to injury/7s. Last minute change after todays WP game? Thought Kolbe came out fine after been stretchered off. Didn’t watch much of that game though.

  • Comment 20, posted at 28.05.16 20:51:43 by gregkaos Reply
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  • How the hell did Brummer make the SA A side and Boshoff did not?!?! Marcel vd Merwe has conceded the most penalties is Super rugby but he’s also in the SA A side?!?!

  • Comment 21, posted at 28.05.16 21:41:43 by JD Reply
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  • Congrats to all the players in the two squads especially the Sharkies!!!

  • Comment 22, posted at 28.05.16 21:43:29 by JD Reply
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  • Would have selected Ross Cronje ahead of Nic Groom.

  • Comment 23, posted at 29.05.16 00:13:53 by Bite me Reply

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  • @Ben (Comment 12) : do you want to have a World Cup in SA anytime soon ,

  • Comment 24, posted at 29.05.16 02:58:32 by schrodingers cat Reply

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  • @gregkaos (Comment 8) : @Ben (Comment 15) : Really what planet are you two on

  • Comment 25, posted at 29.05.16 03:42:38 by benji Reply
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  • Come to think of it, Lewies and Adriaanse should have been selected for the A team

  • Comment 26, posted at 29.05.16 03:43:00 by RuckingFun Reply

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  • @benji (Comment 25) : How about you say something useful and constructive instead of just running your mouth as usual. :roll:

  • Comment 27, posted at 29.05.16 05:38:21 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 15) : Piet van Zyl, Claasens, Ross Cronje . . . at least he didn’t bring Ruan Pienaar over

  • Comment 28, posted at 29.05.16 08:40:41 by Die Kriek Reply

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  • @Ben (Comment 27) : Faf mate Faf,the closest SA have to a AS or TJP

  • Comment 29, posted at 29.05.16 08:55:16 by benji Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 27) : not only that but form over has been any day

  • Comment 30, posted at 29.05.16 08:57:38 by benji Reply
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  • @benji (Comment 29) : Did I say Faf should be excluded? I am saying that I would have taken Claassens ahead of Groom.

  • Comment 31, posted at 29.05.16 09:24:52 by Ben Reply
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  • It’s so cool to think that April will sit on the Bok bench behind Lambie :lol:

  • Comment 32, posted at 29.05.16 09:34:50 by Quintin Reply

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  • @benji (Comment 29) : Can’t wait to see Faf and Lambie play together! Very glad some of the old timers who will probably not be around come the next WC was excluded.

  • Comment 33, posted at 29.05.16 09:37:07 by Quintin Reply

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  • I’m pleasantly surprised by Combrink’s inclusion – proof that form is being rewarded (unlike the past 8 years of Bok rugby, where reputation was the measure for selection).

  • Comment 34, posted at 29.05.16 09:37:20 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • My only grievance is hooker where we look light on xfactor.

  • Comment 35, posted at 29.05.16 09:53:32 by neilster Reply

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  • Huge congrats to all, especially Garth. Question I posed on Twitter: Has any other SA union taken as many players from club obscurity to Springbok as the Sharks? Would love to know.

  • Comment 36, posted at 29.05.16 10:04:52 by vanmartin Reply
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  • im happy in general . let be honest ,. the coach is always going to pick players he know . Just depends to what extent . AC picked a good few Lions players and 2 of them totally uncapped . Tells me he is willing to go with form . and i like it !

  • Comment 37, posted at 29.05.16 10:27:28 by Zibbie Reply
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  • Hooker selections a bit of a joke given what’s available. Also Kollisi has been chosen ahead of better men. But I suppose Alister has political pressures to cope with as well. It’s never cut and dry for a bok coach. Nice to see young fresh players instead of the Heineke Meyer pensioner circus. Would a selection like this have delivered a better world cup result if they had 3 years?

  • Comment 38, posted at 29.05.16 10:37:26 by coolfusion Reply

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  • I hope April gets game time. It will do wonders for him and for us when we get him back.

  • Comment 39, posted at 29.05.16 10:40:20 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 38) : Yeah , Strauss has been horrible this season and I just don’t rate the other 2 as Test quality hookers.

  • Comment 40, posted at 29.05.16 11:00:12 by Quintin Reply

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  • As expected a fairly heavy provincialism in selections: 12 of the 31 are WP, or were formerly. Also, too many bulls but then i suppose that they were many of the incumbents from Meyer’s time. Baffled by the selections of Groom, Ntubeni, Notshe and Mbonambi. To my mind at least none of those are particularly stand-out players. Etzebeth is thuggish and i deem him to be an embarrassment (even Bakkies had more common-sense of when to turn on the dirty); there is no way that AC is going to install Lambie as captain, despite the sense that it would make (how then could Jantjies start ahead of the captain, and we just know the captain is going to have to be a present or former Stormer, likely Vermeulen).

  • Comment 41, posted at 29.05.16 11:00:12 by SeanJeff Reply
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  • @SeanJeff (Comment 41) : Well, as far as I know, AC actually likes and rates Lambie, guess not enough to make him captain above one of his mates at the Stormers though.

  • Comment 42, posted at 29.05.16 11:03:26 by Quintin Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 37) : yup. doubt anyone is really complaining about the Lions players he’s selected. All in great form and can’t see any them been cut out of the test squad.

  • Comment 43, posted at 29.05.16 11:04:01 by gregkaos Reply
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  • @gregkaos (Comment 43) : I’m glad he selected more Lions, they thoroughly deserve it. What do you guys think of Damian de Allende’s selection? He hasn’t really been playing well at all this season after his injury he had in Japan.

  • Comment 44, posted at 29.05.16 11:06:17 by Quintin Reply

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  • I’m really bummed by the selections, but I understand that everyone’s tastes differ. I suppose Garth April must be pinching himself this morning, wondering how things have come so right for him since last year. Broadly, I have no great excitement in AC’s philosophy. If Marcell Coetzee were fit and available, he likely would still have lost out to the forwards who are there now. Ireland are not at their best (the Irish team from two years ago was stronger), but they should give the Springboks a lot to chew on and fight through, like a 99c steak.

  • Comment 45, posted at 29.05.16 11:10:04 by SeanJeff Reply
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  • @Quintin (Comment 44) : agree his form hasn’t been that great. Perhaps AC thinks he can bring out the best of him or his gameplan/combinations will do the trick. If he can do a Nonu and shine on a national level then I’m cool with it.
    Time will tell if AC will persist with players he rates that aren’t in form.

  • Comment 46, posted at 29.05.16 11:46:36 by gregkaos Reply
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  • @SeanJeff, ditto, fully agree.

    A 99c steak? Did you also haunt Monks Inn in the 80′s. Steak, egg and Strips @ R2.50. A jug of beer for R5.00.

  • Comment 47, posted at 29.05.16 12:05:31 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • Congratulations to the guys who made the squad. Not a bad first pick by AC. But why pick 2 12s who are not in form. Also hooker and SH. Esterhuize, Janse van Rensberg, Marx, Akker and Cronje should have been selected. As well as Carr in place of Notshe.

  • Comment 48, posted at 29.05.16 12:16:46 by sudhir Reply

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  • What worries me most is that there are only 3 locks in the springbok squad.

  • Comment 49, posted at 29.05.16 12:31:52 by byron Reply

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  • @Quintin (Comment 40) : Well you have Bismarck Burden Marx but you select bongi smacks of quota but like I said the man has his pressures to deal with. And yes his picks a very provincial but to be fair you go with what you know especially when you have to make a good first impression. I’m just glad he is more revolutionary than Meyer. I’m sure there will still be some changes and experiments to get to the final pack. Good to get the testing of the young bloods out the way early on. Just as long as he remains open minded and shifts gear from provincial to national coach sooner rather than later.

  • Comment 50, posted at 29.05.16 13:20:28 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @byron (Comment 49) : One of whom will be rightfully yellow carded within the first ten minutes of the first test, for being an arrogant thug….so only two of the three should actually be there.

  • Comment 51, posted at 29.05.16 13:50:30 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 50) : we don’t use that word here. Go read the rules

  • Comment 52, posted at 29.05.16 14:38:50 by robdylan Reply
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  • I think it’s a pretty good squad, with an understandable amount of “coach’s calls” thrown in, given that his arse hasn’t even had time to warm his chair yet.

    Far better that what has been selected for the last 4 horrible years.

  • Comment 53, posted at 29.05.16 14:55:18 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 38) :

    As it was, they achieved a better final result than ’99, ’03 and ’11.

    What’s your expectations? That the Boks must win the WC at least once every four years?
    Don’t you think that is a little irrational?

  • Comment 54, posted at 29.05.16 16:36:14 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 52) : Personally I agree with us not saying “Meyer” on here. He tormented us for 4 years… but no more!

  • Comment 55, posted at 29.05.16 17:18:52 by the-other-sharky Reply

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  • @Die Kriek (Comment 7) : There’s a few of them.
    Groom – Claasens/Cronje
    Scara/Bingo – Marx/Bismarck/Chiliboy/Marais
    But I’m going to sit back and see what they can do before I tell AC how to do his job

  • Comment 56, posted at 29.05.16 17:22:42 by the-other-sharky Reply

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  • @Quintin (Comment 44) : I would’ve left out either Jan or DDA for Rohan he’s been on fire for the Lions the last few weeks.

  • Comment 57, posted at 29.05.16 17:28:43 by the-other-sharky Reply

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  • @the-other-sharky (Comment 56) :
    Can’t agree on the hookers. If the decision is that we don’t want to play Bismark now that he is abroad,then only Marx has been hard done by.

    Chilliboy has a long road to walk back despite his undoubted talent, and Marais is not test level – at least not yet. The 2 Stormers hookers have at least proven themselves at SR level for some seasons now.

  • Comment 58, posted at 29.05.16 18:26:41 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 58) :

    Is there any reason why Bismarck would be left out for being overseas, but not Vermeulen, Louw and Kitshoff?

  • Comment 59, posted at 29.05.16 19:08:06 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 59) : That is an excellent question. Interesting that all 3 have played for AC at the Stormers.

  • Comment 60, posted at 29.05.16 20:06:47 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 59) : @Bokhoring (Comment 60) :
    I think he’s a bit older than the others as well. Bismark polarises people – people seem to either love or loathe him. Personally, I would start him in every game.

    Aside from that, I think it’s pretty clear that AC has started by focusing on players he knows well. I can deal with that if it’s for this series – not if it becomes a recurring theme.

  • Comment 61, posted at 29.05.16 21:24:20 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 61) :

    Then he was not left out for being overseas.

    I try to defer to the coach’s choices at all times. and I have understanding for the requirements he labors under, but I’m not one for generating fictions.

  • Comment 62, posted at 29.05.16 23:32:38 by fyndraai Reply
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  • I have no inside info, but I’ve read here (perhaps between the lines) that the du Plessis brothers had a conflict with Jake White and John Smit.
    I think we can scratch the Jake White one though. Considering they went off to play for him.

    But I’ve also read that John Smit had a conflict with Luke Watson and it’s pretty obvious he had some beef with John Plumtree.

    So who’s the common denominator here?

  • Comment 63, posted at 29.05.16 23:54:49 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 62) :
    No idea what you’re trying to say here

  • Comment 64, posted at 30.05.16 01:04:27 by Big Fish Reply
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  • Well done to all the players that got selected, especially those uncapped guys. Very young squad thou but I guess we have to build towards 2019.

    Awhile back I asked what the chances are of Garth one day playing for the Boks. Well looks like it happened a lot sooner than I expected. I’m sure he will however move one notch down once Jantjies is ready. But still well done considering he was virtually no where a year ago this time.

    BTW How did Boshoff fall so far out of favor? Seems like his confidence has taken a knock.

  • Comment 65, posted at 30.05.16 07:08:02 by Farlington Reply

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  • Overall i feel this is a good squad that has been selected with enough players in there to form a really good match day 23. In every squad there will always always be selections that people dont agree with. But i feel if its only like 4 guys out of 31 well then i think that a pretty good squad so hats off to AC. Awesome stuff for Garth April and others getting their first call up. I think we perhaps underestimate how special it is for these guys to even get named in the squad.

  • Comment 66, posted at 30.05.16 08:00:23 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @fyndraai (Comment 54) : Wow. You are quick to jump. Did I mention any expectations or allude to any? It was an open ended question asking if a change in thinking may have yielded beter results. No one said win a world cup. Better results can also mean not losing against japan in opening rounds or have a more diverse plan of attack and less predictable game. Maybe read the statements and questions next time before going on defence.

  • Comment 67, posted at 30.05.16 08:05:40 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 66) : Ja I agree and like I said these are opening shots. For all we know he might be testing the guys we are unsure of as he us probably not sure what they are capable of this level. If that’s the case I for one would rather have him go through the list and make a fair assessment now. I think in some positions like hooker you can kind of know what Bismarck can do but judging on this season so far you don’t know if Strauss is up to it. Nor do you know if serf is the same man he was. I think it’s prudent that he does this. But time will tell if he is a clear strategic thinker or if this was some bone head decisions.

  • Comment 68, posted at 30.05.16 08:16:05 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 68) : Yeh i definitely think AC is having a look at a lot of guys and seeing if they can make the step up to International rugby…and rather against Ireland than NZ or OZ to be honest. Its also why i really like that an SA A side was picked as then even more guys can be looked at against a strong Saxons side. I definitely think there will be changes to this squad when it comes to the rugby championship. So maybe im the minority, maybe not but im fully backing AC…lets see what he can do.

  • Comment 69, posted at 30.05.16 08:35:31 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 67) : Im not sure the words less predictable can be applied to Allister, he was the most predictable of all coaches while at the Stormers and it was not pretty. We live in hope but I think its a natural trait rhat when the going gets tough you revert to what you know. Stormers game under Allister revolved around Nienabers rock solid defence, Allister has already tried to get Nienaber to join his coaching staff but was turned down. Im affraid that next in line will be our Omar.

  • Comment 70, posted at 30.05.16 08:37:42 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 69) : Yes Im fully backing him, Im not overly enthusiastic about his squad, I would have prefered no foreign based players at all. Too many home town choices with his Stormers selections but thats understandable. Stormers, apart from PSdT have been a huge disappointment and if they bring that form into a Bok team I see a hard time ahead for us.

  • Comment 71, posted at 30.05.16 08:46:31 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 70) : The question will be if Toetie can get the most out of the flair Lions players like Kriel, Whitely, Faf, Elton and Mapoe. We have seen Bok coaches in the past including the Keegan’s and Whitely’s in their teams (usually under duress) with little success as they were asked to play a type of game foreign to their natural skills.

  • Comment 72, posted at 30.05.16 08:46:46 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • This is not a bad squad considering all the external influences Toetie has to deal with. We will never be happy with a Springbok squad and a coach will always pick some of his favorite and most trusted players. But I for one am excited with theis squad, as it is a similar cleanup as what Jake White did back in 2005.

  • Comment 73, posted at 30.05.16 08:55:47 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 73) : Yep, its not going to be easy, add to that the form of many of the players at the moment. Just from a Sharks perspective Id say JPP and Mvovs are a bit fortunate to be in the team on current form. Ditto most of the Stormers and Bulls players.

  • Comment 74, posted at 30.05.16 09:17:33 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • The player I feel most sorry for for not getting a call to either team is Adriaanse, on form he should be there.

  • Comment 75, posted at 30.05.16 09:18:48 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 75) : Rome wasn’t built in day eh? Look most of us gave HM his honeymoon period to find his feet (even though he ended up legless) so I’ll give Alister his chance to see where he is going with this. No doubt he will irritate both of us but let’s see if it’s acceptable irritation. As for him being predictable yes probably but maybe his team can help him there. If he is the kind of guy who listens to voices other than his own.

  • Comment 76, posted at 30.05.16 09:31:43 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 75) : And maybe give Vincent Koch a shot as well? I know he made the A side but I think he should have been in this list.

  • Comment 77, posted at 30.05.16 09:35:43 by coolfusion Reply

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  • So with the squad selected thoughts on a possible team for the first test?? Beast, Strauss, Malherbe, Etsebeth, PSDT, Louw, Kriel, Vermuelen, Faf, Lambie,Mvovo, Serfontein, Mapoe, JPP, LeRoux….

  • Comment 78, posted at 30.05.16 09:36:28 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 76) : The poor guy has to listen to many voices not all of them rugby. Im hoping that AC can get my appetite for Bok rugby back but Im at the stage where Im finding myself not caring much either way. Maybe what will really get the Bok juices flowing is the good old fashioned tours, now that was great. Sadly I cant see these ever happening again.

  • Comment 79, posted at 30.05.16 09:39:34 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 78) : My guess – Beast, Strauss (captain), Malherbe, Etsebeth, PSDT, Louw, Kolisi, Vermeulen, Faf, Elton (if he makes it in time), Mvovo, DDA, Mapoe, JPP, Willie

  • Comment 80, posted at 30.05.16 09:40:27 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 74) : Look, I’m pretty sure that this quad will even change come Rugby Champs, never mind even come the next World Cup, so guys like Adriaanse and Lewies will get to be in the mix soon. DDA and Serfontein probably the two luckiest players in the squad. I also see people moan because there is only 3 locks in the squad, but we are playing in SA so getting a replacement is super easy. Come the Rugby Champs I’m sure there will be at least 4 with a 4/7 hybrid player in the mix.

  • Comment 81, posted at 30.05.16 09:54:25 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 78) : Ha, ha AC will be shot by the minister of sport before his first test if he selects that team.

  • Comment 82, posted at 30.05.16 09:54:48 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 70) :
    @Bokhoring (Comment 72) :
    These are key points in my opinion.

    What is interesting is that AC has selected guys with a broad skill set in most positions. Even the snub of Adriaanse left me wondering if that’s a consideration.

    Couple that with AC’s recent comment that you can only play the style that suits your personnel, and he does seem to imply that his staid style at the Stormers was based on players stocks.

    The big issue is going to be whether he has the players available to evolve the Boks – as national coach he can’t play a completely different style to what they play every day. My hope is that the Lions success inspires other teams. I already think that the Sharks are on a journey of their own.

  • Comment 83, posted at 30.05.16 10:00:12 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 82) : Shite i didnt even think of that…good call. @Bokhoring (Comment 80) : Yeh think you could be pretty accurate there…

  • Comment 84, posted at 30.05.16 10:01:51 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 83) : Interesting first point you make there. I think all the players selected can run and pass the ball fairly well. So yeh multi skilled.

  • Comment 85, posted at 30.05.16 10:07:02 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 85) : But can any of those props that was selected execute a Sonny-Bill pass as good as Adriaanse? :lol:

  • Comment 86, posted at 30.05.16 10:08:57 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 86) : And survive the cheap late shot?

  • Comment 87, posted at 30.05.16 10:09:56 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • How I hope that Coetzee discovers his backbone and selects the best captain in the country ,as his starting block and then builds the team around him.And the man is Warren Whitely,one look at Adrian Straus face on Saturday told a huge story he had just been given the hiding of his life in his own home stadium.This a mere week after humiliating the Stormers.
    That victory was the culmination of a great season from Whitely the best captain and best no 8 in the country.

  • Comment 88, posted at 30.05.16 10:14:47 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 88) : 100% agree.

    His pre/post match interviews also does not leave me cringing with embarrassment – well spoken young man that.

    Also one of the few with enough class to keep his temper in check – maybe Eben “Thug-Life” Etzebeth can sit at his feet, and take notes (though I doubt he has the mental faculty to ever achieve this).

  • Comment 89, posted at 30.05.16 10:22:14 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 88) : I suspect AC is going with Thor as his captain but I’m in agreement with your thoughts on the matter. Would love to see a squad built around Whitely as captain. Some people disagree with me on this but I reckon Duane could comfortably move to 7 allowing Whitely to start at 8.

  • Comment 90, posted at 30.05.16 10:23:10 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 89) : In a real world I would choose the Amish man /boy and the golden child ahead of Ethebeth,I have never like him and rate him behind Lewies and Mostert as well.

  • Comment 91, posted at 30.05.16 10:25:59 by The hound Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 83) : This could be but in my mind I never equate the Stormers / the Cape poor with backline players, well if you see scholls games plyed down here and look at what they have on their books they should be boiling over with talent…..but then they do somehow conspire to let all their talented flyhalves get picked up by other unions and land up coming short there.

  • Comment 92, posted at 30.05.16 10:26:14 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 90) : AC has stated that he wants to select a locally based captain – so that rules Thor out. I guess a trio of 6) Kolisi, 7) Thor and 8) Whitely could also work.

  • Comment 93, posted at 30.05.16 10:26:19 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 90) : And therein lies our one dimensional problem. Yes a hard man like vermeulen has his place but what happens when you need an intelligent man who can open up the game or work around negative play…say like the Argies or even the Japs what if the other teams tactics nullify your battering ram approach you can’t have a plan b game without plan b players.

  • Comment 94, posted at 30.05.16 10:26:41 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 90) : Yep my thoughts as well, I also cant imagine Vermeulen coming back wihout the captaincy job, his French club has openly stated that they are against him joining the Boks for these games.

  • Comment 95, posted at 30.05.16 10:28:59 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 91) : Fully agree

  • Comment 96, posted at 30.05.16 10:29:21 by stevovo Reply
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  • A stretch here but do you guys think saru could ever entice Frans Steyn to come back for boks? What with new management and all?

  • Comment 97, posted at 30.05.16 10:31:29 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 93) : I would say that a locally based captain is a foregone conclusion.Thay leaves,Malherbe,Lambie,Whitely and Straus,

  • Comment 98, posted at 30.05.16 10:32:11 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 91) : Exactly – who cares that “Thug-Life” can theoretically beat-up anyone on a rugby field – it is illegal in rugby, if he wants to do that, he should join an MMA club.

    On a rugby field, I want guys with a strong enough character to impose himself, without resorting to thug tactics….”Thug-Life” has become one of my least favourite rugby players.

  • Comment 99, posted at 30.05.16 10:32:48 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 91) : Amish man /boy – LOL

  • Comment 100, posted at 30.05.16 10:35:21 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 90) : yea , i think traditionally you have the big bruiser at 7 and not at 8 …

  • Comment 101, posted at 30.05.16 10:48:19 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 94) : that’s where the adaptability of Marcell Coetzee is so sorely needed. We’re going to miss that guy in the Bok setup. Flouw used to be good in that hybrid role but was largely a disappointment for me last year. Kriel may be out best bet but only time will tell.

    @Bokhoring (Comment 93) : I read that too but got the impression he could make an exception for the Ireland tests?

  • Comment 102, posted at 30.05.16 10:57:05 by vanmartin Reply
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  • I see Bok captain for the Ireland series to be named at 5pm. Im not a big fan of 1 captain being named for the next 4yrs. The captain should be picked for each series. Yes can be same guy but his place in the team should be warranted then.

  • Comment 103, posted at 30.05.16 11:34:50 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 101) : What makes Thor useful at 8 is his ability to force turnovers at rucks. Moving him to 7 means you may lessen the impact he has with that.

  • Comment 104, posted at 30.05.16 11:42:50 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 103) : AC said that he will pick a captain for this series, and thereafter decide on his long term captain.

  • Comment 105, posted at 30.05.16 11:46:12 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 104) : I think Vermuelen at 7 may actually give him more freedom to just play. At 8 you have to be very disciplined in the areas you cover etc. Lets not forget he has played 7 a lot and was very good there to. If the Boks want to play a higher paced game with skillful players then you need more of a ball player and passer at 8.

  • Comment 106, posted at 30.05.16 11:46:48 by SheldonK Reply

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  • I personally do not see a loosie comprising Whitely and Jaco Kriel having the goods at international level. Vermeulen brings grunt and fetching ability at 8 and I would be surprised if they moved him to 7 unless at least one of the other loosies also had big physical presence. Marcel would probably be a shoe in were he fit and assuming AC was willing to pick him from abroad (I would think in Flouw’s place). That would allow Kriel to roam free. My opinion on it, but it will be interesting to see what AC does.

    @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 92) :
    I agree. I need to word this carefully, but I used to attend a fair amount of games in the Northern suburbs and I know there is not a shortage of talent there. Lets just say that WP have preference for a certain type of player and certain schools and clubs. If you arent there, your chances are slim – ala JP, April, Adi and others.

  • Comment 107, posted at 30.05.16 12:24:18 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 107) : Interesting thought here reading your comment. When people discuss the Boks they say they are too braindead and defense orientated…but then when discussing what players should be picked they often say player X should be picked because he is good on defense, offers grunt and ball fetching ability. Very seldom are the words speed, passing and attacking ability mentioned….which is strange as thats the type of game people apparently want. Just a generalisation based on some things ive seen. Your thoughts?

  • Comment 108, posted at 30.05.16 12:42:23 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 108) :
    I think the problem is that people forget about balance. Its like this comment people make about how so and so would be playing international rugby if they were in NZ/ Oz because they aren’t afraid to play small backs. Yet how many small backs do the ABs and Oz actually play?

    Similarly, if you look at the makeup of the AB squad, Kaino and Read are both around Vermeulen size – 110+kg. The difference is that they also have great skills and make good decision on attack AND defence.

    The ABs played last year’s RWC final with Read, Kaino and McCaw at loosie. They played specific roles as required by the team dynamic. If McCaw played loose who would fetch? If Kaino played the linking role, who would carry the ball over the advantage line up close? Of course, it goes beyond just those 3, but the dynamic is the same.

    This year they have both Same Cane and Ardie Savea as their opensiders, and Kaino and Dixon as big blindsides. I dont see them playing generic/ interchangeable. loosies now either.

  • Comment 109, posted at 30.05.16 12:59:03 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 108) : Problem is the the flair type players have been selected for the Boks in the past, but then asked to play in a pattern that does not suit their skills.

  • Comment 110, posted at 30.05.16 13:04:41 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 109) : All good points. I particularly like the first line…people do often forget about balance. Very true

  • Comment 111, posted at 30.05.16 13:04:57 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 110) : Thats a fair point…but the flair players must also be effective in a tight close game just like your big defensive guys need to be at home in an open passing game.

  • Comment 112, posted at 30.05.16 13:07:33 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 112) : Sure, but I am talking more about the attacking patterns. Players who normally plays a passing, offloading game were asked to take the ball up and set up rucks.

  • Comment 113, posted at 30.05.16 13:18:35 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 113) : Look i know what you mean about players having to shy away from their natural strength game but they also cant use that an an excuse for losing the ball in contact or not being bale to clear rucks effectively. Yes they are good at the expansive stuff but they cant then just not do any grunt work. Sometimes that is whats needed. But yes i do understand your point about playing to players strengths.

  • Comment 114, posted at 30.05.16 13:23:21 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 113) : @SheldonK (Comment 114) :
    I think you’re both right.

    In my opinion what NZ and Oz do far better is firstly playing a style and using tactics which emphasise their players’ strengths.

    Secondly, they don’t stop coaching development areas. In SA, if a guy is powerful or quick, we’ll pigeonhole him to utilise that at all times – and not focus on building him into a rounded player. The ABs are so good cos they often select a guy based on a game-changing attribute like speed or size and then build up his general skills. This makes that player a devastating prospect.

    After all, you can’t really coach power or speed to a great extent, but you can do that with catching, passing, kicking, tackling, etc.

  • Comment 115, posted at 30.05.16 13:31:22 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 109) : The problem is in SA you can have one or the other grunt or intelligence. You would need to make a sub to have both in the same game. Very few players in SA that give you best of both worlds in one man.

  • Comment 116, posted at 30.05.16 13:32:02 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @Big Fish (Comment 115) : All comes back to your point about Balance

  • Comment 117, posted at 30.05.16 13:33:20 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 67) :

    I was mostly interested in how you defined disaster.
    The Japan game was a disaster by itself, but since it had no bearing on the tournament outcome, it did not make for a disastrous tournament. The tournament outcome in this case was only topped by the 2 championships.

    We obviously have very different ways in reasoning.
    And by the way, if someone challenges your opinion, it’s not necessarily in defense of anything.

  • Comment 118, posted at 30.05.16 15:30:55 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 118) : Interesting point you make about the RWC. I think im in agreement. For me we started the tournament as the 3rd best side in the world and ended the tournament in 3rd so by all accounts we performed as expected.

  • Comment 119, posted at 30.05.16 15:34:12 by SheldonK Reply

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