robdylan

Sad end to a promising career


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks on 21 Jul 2016 at 09:51
Tagged with : , , , , , , ,

While all the news yesterday – at least in mainstream media – focused on Sharks hooker Monde Hadebe’s 4-year ban for returning a positive test for a banned substance, there’s a rather more tragic angle to the story that I’d like to focus on instead. I feel we are way too quick to engage in righteous anger and armchair condemnation (often selectively) whenever a positive test is returned; perhaps we owe Monde a little more than that, though?

The reality is that Monde’s career was over many months before this “failed drugs test” came to light. A former age-group and Vodacom Cup captain, a home grown boy from Westville, a leader and former SA under 20 representative, Monde perhaps deserved at least some mention in Sharks dispatches when it was decided, at the start of the year, that a lower spine injury sustained in pre-season training had put an end to his rugby playing career. Not a man to seek the limelight, Monde accepted his fate with good grace and has already put life as a professional rugby player behind him, concentrating on a fledgling career in the business world, made possible due to his diligence in pursuing his studies while making his way as a junior player.

Details regarding the “failed drug test” – which, of course, everybody quickly assumes must relate to wilful and ongoing abuse of anabolic steroids – are sketchy, but the information I have is that it relates to a sample that was taken up to two years ago and only recently tested and (as is so often the case) contained a banned substance included in an over-the-counter supplement. Players, as we know, need to be constantly vigilant and ensure they understand exactly what it is they are putting into their bodies. Monde, in this case, let his guard down and accepts that he made a grave mistake.

Not terribly different to what several other players have fallen foul of in the past, including current darling of the press, Johan Goosen.

I’ll conclude with John Smit’s statement on the matter, which does not in any way contradict what I’ve said above.

“We are saddened to hear the news about Monde Hadebe. Monde is a man of integrity and a leader in his own right, who, over the years, has been a great ambassador for The Sharks,” the outgoing CEO writes.
“Due to a reoccurring injury that hampered his rugby progress he took the decision to retire from rugby at the beginning of the year, prior to SAIDS findings, and has successfully started a corporate career. Monde had acknowledged his mistake in not being more careful and is most remorseful, and had co-operated with SAIDS from the outset, whilst they carried out their investigation. The Sharks support and acknowledge the great work that the Anti-Doping Council carries out, and we will continue to educate and provide guidance to our players on the importance of making informed decisions and to know exactly what they take into their bodies and whether or not that is permissible.”

I’d like to thank Monde for his contribution to the Sharks and wish him all the best for his future.



94 Comments

  • Shitty reporting from Stormers24..

    Good luck to the man in business world and hopefully this does not hurt him there.

  • Comment 1, posted at 21.07.16 09:55:11 by Kabouter Reply
    KabouterCurrie Cup player
     
  • Great article Rob. People are so quick to judge without all the details.

  • Comment 2, posted at 21.07.16 09:55:34 by KingRiaan Reply
    KingRiaanTeam captain
     
  • Players need to take responsibility for their actions so asking for sympathy when they are caught doesnt cut it for me. But there will be many more cases as time passes and it seems that not much is being done in terms of preventing this going forward so life goes on. The more important question is why has a former u20 player and good age group player not developed into a better senior player? And he is not the only one just using him as an example. Are the Sharks backing and retaining the right players? And are they adequately developing those they retain? Recent results would suggest no to both those questions.

  • Comment 3, posted at 21.07.16 10:01:58 by SheldonK Reply
    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • How has his career ending injury and subsequent retirement only come to light now?

    Either way, seems the over-the-counter “drugs” and those bought on the black market are easily detected….it’s the ones being administered by doctors that’s the real problem – and these seem to stay ahead of the testing technology game, and I’m sure many a successful sportsman makes use of this.

    …some are caught out eventually – I’m looking at you Armstrong…how many years was it, 10?

  • Comment 4, posted at 21.07.16 10:33:13 by FireTheLooser Reply
    Assistant coach
     
  • @Kabouter (Comment 1) : I’ll echo this sentiment in it’s entirety. Best of luck Monde.

  • Comment 5, posted at 21.07.16 10:58:11 by vanmartin Reply
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  • What constantly amazes me is that the Union has a full time medical staff and a full time conditioning staff.These guys are there to administer to full-time athletes who have no other job.
    How then can these guys fail drug tests because they were inadvertently using something bought over the counter.
    Surely the Union should be doing their own testing,and anything that the Anti doping body picks up should be detected by them first.
    When a player is found guilty his medical and conditioning team should bear the responsibility.
    Anything serious enough to ban a player for 4 years should be evident to the medical and conditioning staff,this is not a slap on the wrist offence it is a four year ban.
    Maybe if the conditioning and medical staff also got banned for four years we would see less of this cheating bullshit.

  • Comment 6, posted at 21.07.16 11:05:57 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 6) : I don’t disagree, but wanted to clear up one misconception.

    Monde got a 4 year ban not because what he took was in any way “worse” than what people have received 2-year bans for int he past. WADA and SAID have recently moved to 4-year bans as standard, to ensure that the ban matches with a world cup/Olympic cycle

  • Comment 7, posted at 21.07.16 11:08:23 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • @robdylan (Comment 7) : I know it’s off topic, but do you know when the team announcement is? Very excited to see the team although we all know what it will look like.

  • Comment 8, posted at 21.07.16 11:11:49 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @The hound (Comment 6) : @robdylan (Comment 7) : The Sharks medical/conditioning staff do not have the testing resources. I also dont think players outside of the Elite Super rugby players are monitored as well as you suggest- evidence of that is in the fairly poor state of the conditioning of our age group teams.

  • Comment 9, posted at 21.07.16 11:14:37 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 7) : I know what I said sounds crass and I have a lot of time for the boy been watching him since Rees used to coach him at Westville. But my point is that there are people whose sole job it is to be responsible for his condition,so hold them responsible.

  • Comment 10, posted at 21.07.16 11:16:19 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 3) : well if you look at soccer you will see man utd is about to pay 120 mil pounds for a player the let go for 800 000 pounds 4 years back .

    You cant always predict how a player will develop , or even if he will develop if he stay at the team .

  • Comment 11, posted at 21.07.16 11:18:32 by Zibbie Reply
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  • I think the real concern is an article on the Stuff.co.nz website which says SA has a bigger drug issue with a scary amount of youngsters testing positive!

  • Comment 12, posted at 21.07.16 11:19:06 by Dynamite Reply

    DynamiteVodacom Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 9) : Excuse me but that is bullshit,the high performance centre is there to monitor performance,surely if someone is taking something advertantly or inadvertently,that justifies a four year ban,it must be detectable.

  • Comment 13, posted at 21.07.16 11:21:04 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 6) : The player’s individual nutrition sponsor might also be to blame here. Twitter is awash with rugby players proudly showing off the latest line of supplements they’ve received from their personal sponsors.

  • Comment 14, posted at 21.07.16 11:25:45 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 13) : Calling bullshit on just your assumption may make you happy but it doesnt change the facts. These guys arent monitored as extensively as you like to believe. Especially those not in the Elite group. The Sharks and HP centre do not have lab access to do these testing you assume takes place.

  • Comment 15, posted at 21.07.16 11:33:07 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Zibbie (Comment 11) : That a fair point but the exception also doesnt prove the rule. More often than not players let go by the Sharks outperform those retained.

  • Comment 16, posted at 21.07.16 11:34:47 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 15) : As usual you miss my point,any one who earns his living as a sports doctor or a conditioning coach should be able to detect an abnormal performance gain in one of their charges,if they can’t then they are not fit to be in the job.Sorry I just can’t buy the innocent uninformed drug abuse story again.Unless of course you are telling me we don’t have conditioning coaches at the Sharks,

  • Comment 17, posted at 21.07.16 11:47:04 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 17) : You are assuming there was a noticeable change in performance. Remember he isnt in the elite group so testing not as vigorous and frequent. We also dont know how long he used those 2 steroids for. So yes conditioning coaches should pick up abnormal fluctuations but just steady increase or decrease could be due to a number of factors. So he could have been skipping gym and taking these drugs to just maintain his levels.Blame needs to start with the player…and yes if someone else could reasonably have known or detected it then yes can apportion blame.

  • Comment 18, posted at 21.07.16 11:52:43 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 18) : I am not talking about blame but responsibility. I am presuming that anything that carries a 4 year ban is a serious offence,and it is a significant unfair advantage.In fact it is cheating.
    The player is in one state the state where he is desperate enough to achieve , he has resorted to cheating..
    The conditioning coach on the other hand is not emotionally involved and should have an objective view on the performance.
    He should be honour bound to detect it,report and control it.Obviously in every case where the player is found guilty the conditioning coach has no honour and is equally guilty of cheating ,but gets off scott free.
    Before you get on your high horse again lookout the Russians ban at the Olympics,the cheating was sanctioned at government level.

  • Comment 19, posted at 21.07.16 12:02:44 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 19) : Its amazing how things you assume must definitely be factual then. You assume that the conditioning coaches watch every players every move and test them so frequently that any slight change is investigated. The conditioning coaches job is to improve performance so should that performance increase why would it raise any alarm bells? Only abnormal increases, and again you assume that there were these increases (his play definitely didnt indicate anything like that). Believe it or not players are left to their own devices for large parts of the day to do their own training and eating and supplements etc. It is also emerging that Hadebe was looking to claim from Insurance for his career ending injury and thus the insurance company wanted his past samples tested again. I dont have that as fact yet but its the story coming out.

  • Comment 20, posted at 21.07.16 12:14:47 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 20) : You protest too much friend,do you honestly believe that a professional conditions coach cannot detect performance enhancing substances in a professional rugby player.this is 2016 not 1975.

  • Comment 21, posted at 21.07.16 12:20:25 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 21) : How would he do that? Does being a professional conditioning coach give him special powers of smell that he can smell it on a players breath? All he can rely on is the fitness testing they do. You assume there was a massive increase…which if there was then yes it should ring some bells. But if there wasnt and nothing in his play or body composition in recent years suggest there was….how would you like the conditioning coach to detect this?

  • Comment 22, posted at 21.07.16 12:27:24 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • “another sharks hooker in doping ban”! Seriously Rob Houwing!! Which Sharks hooker was ever banned for doping? Chilli was not a Shark when he was banned.

  • Comment 23, posted at 21.07.16 12:45:47 by sudhir Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • Where’s my fire lighters and hymn book?

    @sudhir (Comment 23) :
    Don’t expect balanced journalism from News24. Every Stormer is a Bok and everyone else a pretender.

  • Comment 24, posted at 21.07.16 12:53:35 by Big Fish Reply
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  • @sudhir (Comment 23) : I’ve resigned myself to the thought that being angry at Rob Houwing for posting trashy headlines on News24 is akin to being angry at a primate for flinging his own poop in your general direction. Leave nature to run its course.

  • Comment 25, posted at 21.07.16 13:03:02 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 25) : Oh man, that’s priceless!

  • Comment 26, posted at 21.07.16 13:12:20 by Culling Song Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Culling SongTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 22) : So you are saying that a performance enhancing stimulant that carries a 4 year ban is completely undetectable by a coach whose sole job is to manage and monitor your daily performance.If that is the case why the four year ban,or more important why do we need performance and conditioning coaches what the fuck are they monitoring,

  • Comment 27, posted at 21.07.16 13:39:34 by The hound Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 7) : Rob must say this whole thing have me a bit uneasy.
    1. How can a test be done only “up to 2 years” later?!?!?
    2. The “stuff” he took how long ago was it banned? Was it banned when he took it “up to 2 years ago”?
    3. Why the hell did the Sharks not make it more public that he’s retiring?! A player of his caliber would surely deserve nothing less than that?!
    4. How many other players currently playing for the Sharks, Bokke, other international teams, etc have similar tests outstanding?!?!
    Sorry to say but for me it feels as something is a bit off with the testing and the way it was handled!!!!

  • Comment 28, posted at 21.07.16 13:39:42 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 27) : stuff like that can only be detected with blood/urine test very very expensive blood/urine test. It’s not as if you can breathalyse them and poof it shows.

  • Comment 29, posted at 21.07.16 13:42:02 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 29) : Iam not saying that ,I am saying the coach must have a suspicion that the player is cheating he must see it in the abnormal gain in performance,every one of these players wears a GPS in training and during the game what is that monitoring.If the coach has a suspicion he should be duty bound to order a test,for the sake of the player,the sake of the team and the sake of the game.If the substance is innocuous then lets use it but i think for it to carry a 4 year ban its powerful shit,it will only be stamped out when the people responsible for the players performance are held responsible.

  • Comment 30, posted at 21.07.16 13:49:06 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 27) : Do you recall Hadebe suddenly becoming a lot better player and having a much better physique? Because i dont. So yes he may have taken the substance…but how well did it actually work. The length of the ban is not dependent on how well it worked but just on the classification of the substance. Use of steroids doesnt instantly make you superman. So what exactly would have raised any alarm bells for the conditioning coach if Hadebe was producing constant or slightly increased results? Or do you have another conspiracy theory that the Sharks conditioning coaches are the ones doping him?

  • Comment 31, posted at 21.07.16 13:50:04 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 28) : Its not confirmed but the story coming out is that the test of his past samples was ordered by the Insurance company Hadebe was trying to claim from as a result of his career ending injury.

  • Comment 32, posted at 21.07.16 13:52:10 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 31) : When I look at the evidence of the Russian government ‘s involvement inter athletes doping and when you get into what Lance Armstrong was actually doing,its easy to believe that there is collusion.I am not saying that Iam saying that gross incompetence and criminal neglect on the part of highly paid coaches to detect something that is happening on their watch should not go unpunished.
    You keep saying that the banned stimulants are innocuous why the four year ban then.

  • Comment 33, posted at 21.07.16 13:57:02 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 32) : that’s what I heard too

  • Comment 34, posted at 21.07.16 14:00:18 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
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  • @robdylan (Comment 34) : So if confirmed then the Hadebe case is a bit different in terms of the normal testing protocols and timelines etc. I assume him testing positive severly affects his insurance claim? or do they have to prove that the steroid use influenced the injury?

  • Comment 35, posted at 21.07.16 14:01:52 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 33) : Look the Russian case and even the Armstrong case are dealing with seriously elite athletes. Hadebe definitely did not fall into that category and was largely left to his own devices in regards to training/supplementation/diet etc. So yes he was subject to conditioning tests but not to the level of the elite players. I never said the stimulants were innocuous..what i did say was that there is no evidence of how well they actually worked and the ban isnt determined based on how well they worked. So if he was being a lazy slob and taking these supplements just to maintain standards its very difficult for the conditioning coach to identify that he is taking something. So yes there are cases of collusion although i like to think thats more the exception that the norm. Very often it is a case of a player just doing something stupid….even if just once

  • Comment 36, posted at 21.07.16 14:08:23 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 33) : Having said what i have you also know that i have been quite critical of the sharks conditioning staff as i do not think the sharks players throughout the unions teams are attaining the highest levels of fitness, strength and power compared to those of other teams, especially new zealand teams. So to link to your point…i dont think its a case of them intentionally looking the other way…perhaps its just a case of them being out of their depth. Again just my opinion on that though.

  • Comment 37, posted at 21.07.16 14:20:12 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 32) : @robdylan (Comment 34) : OK but now the next questions comes to mind:
    was the original sample tested and if so did he pass or was the sample taken but not tested?!
    If the sample was not tested is it a normal practice to take samples but not to test all of them?!
    Also why did the Sharks not publish more about his injury and retirement?!
    Rob I know that maybe you don’t have all the answers but for me there’s a lot of things that just does not add up!

  • Comment 38, posted at 21.07.16 15:13:00 by JD Reply
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  • Any comparison to Lance Armstrong is really not valid. Do you know that Lance Armstrong did not fail a single drug test during his entire career? And he was tested after every stage of every Tour D’France, as well as many other times. What Armstrong was accused of and ultimately found guilty had nothing to do with taking any sort of banned substance, it was all due to blood doping. If you don’t know what blood doping is, then look it up, it essentially is transplanting highly oxygenated blood immediately prior to the event. The athlete uses his own blood, and utilizes training techniques at altitude and then at sea level to “over-oxygenate” the blood. There is no doubt that it is very effective, however it is impossible to test, since it is the athlete’s own blood that is used, and there are no drugs involved. It is highly illegal, but the only way an athlete is caught is when those involved turn in the athlete and publicize his doping, which is exactly what happened with Armstrong. The first guy (the Italian) to call out Armstrong (before he retired) basically admitted he also used blood doping with Armstrong when training with him, and therefore knew Armstrong was blood doping.

  • Comment 39, posted at 21.07.16 15:18:56 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 38) : I cant help you too much with those questions im afraid. All i know is that the sample was taken back then…whether it was or was not tested im not sure but as you say would be strange to take the sample but not test. I am not sure of protocol though. In terms of the injury and retirement it was reported that Hadebe returned from the Kings injured but nothing was said after that. Perhaps as he was out of the Sharks training group etc it was just off the radar

  • Comment 40, posted at 21.07.16 15:20:25 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 39) : Yeh Armstrong is kind of in his own little category hey

  • Comment 41, posted at 21.07.16 15:23:15 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • The other thing to remember is that both performance enhancing drugs and “masking drugs” are banned. More often than not when an athlete is found guilty due to taking some over the counter drug (like some decongestants) it’s because they detected “masking drugs” in his system not performance enhancing drugs. These “masking drugs” make detection of the performance enhancing drug very difficult or impossible. So just because “masking drugs” are detected does not mean the athlete ever took any performance enhancing drug.

    Having performed athletically at an international level, I was subject to all the testing, and let me tell you something, the list of banned “masking drugs” is incredibly extensive, even more extensive than the list of performance enhancing drugs.

  • Comment 42, posted at 21.07.16 15:26:25 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 42) : So, moral of the story – don’t become a pro-athlete :twisted:

  • Comment 43, posted at 21.07.16 15:30:02 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 43) : pro athlete??? Even amateur athletes at a certain level are required to follow WADA protocol and sign the appropriate papers. I have sailed both as a professional and for a vast majority of the time as an amateur. In 2010 at a world championships as 100% amateur with zero sponsorship, I was still subject to all WADA testing and protocols. These guys don’t mess around, that is a good thing, but it is not easy for the athlete, you have to be incredibly careful.

  • Comment 44, posted at 21.07.16 15:43:51 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 44) : So what you trying to say is that you are quite good at peeing in a cup…

  • Comment 45, posted at 21.07.16 15:45:31 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 43) : No don’t get caught,a cheat is a cheat,what ever else you want to call it
    .Ialways feel cheated when some abuser is unmasked,I watch sport for the competition,that is why I don’t watch wwf wrestling because its fixed,
    So when I find out the cricket game I was watching,the cycle race rugby game what ever wasn’t actually kosher,I feel like a loser because I got enthusiastic about a crooked game.Sorry four years is too good for some of these cheats.

  • Comment 46, posted at 21.07.16 15:46:46 by The hound Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 44) : And that event was not even a full blown world championships, but rather a “masters” event, for sailors over 35. Still the testing and protocol were the same and just as strict.

  • Comment 47, posted at 21.07.16 15:48:02 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 45) : As soon as I was selected for the USA team, I was immediately subject to random testing. Every sailor from every country had to be tested by their own country at least once before the event. Then sailors were pulled out randomly each day after competing for testing, and finally anyone who finished in the top 5 of any category was also tested. As I said, they don’t mess around, but that is good, all I am saying is it is very easy for an athlete to make a mistake with a masking agent, get a heavy ban and/or fine, and never to have used a performance enhancing drug in his life.

  • Comment 48, posted at 21.07.16 15:51:21 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 46) : Not don’t get caught, DON’T CHEAT!!! It is that simple, oh and be very careful you don’t take any masking agents by mistake.

  • Comment 49, posted at 21.07.16 15:53:26 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 48) : I fully get what you mean. But as the saying goes where there is smoke there is fire so it may not be 100% the case every time but often when a masking agent is picked up the athlete has taken something he shouldnt as well. Even if just once.

  • Comment 50, posted at 21.07.16 15:55:11 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • In no way am I saying that masking agents should not be treated with as strict bans as performance enhancing drugs, they have to carry the same ban, otherwise everyone would juice and mask. All I am saying it is not hard to fall afoul of that rule, even with the best of intentions. I just needed some ibuprofen after I hurt my back the first day of the regatta. I must have spent an hour looking at every single ingredient of every single possible anti-inflammatory to ensure I didn’t take something that was banned. (Oh and why is there a limit on how much ibuprofen you can purchase in England, no more than 20 tablets at a time? It’s not like decongestants people use to make meth-amphetamines, it is just really good aspirin) :mrgreen:

  • Comment 51, posted at 21.07.16 16:01:32 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 50) : being innocent of taking a masking agent,is like saying you buy Hustler to read the gardening section

  • Comment 52, posted at 21.07.16 16:02:08 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 50) : see post 51 ;-)

  • Comment 53, posted at 21.07.16 16:03:43 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • I dont blame monde at all, i blame SA who is obsessed with size, Monde not being the biggest of hookers and probably feeling the only thing that he can do to play for higher honors is to bulk up

  • Comment 54, posted at 21.07.16 16:04:35 by schrodingers cat Reply

    schrodingers catCurrie Cup player
     
  • @The hound (Comment 52) : The only way to be innocent of taking a masking agent is to not take one. Masking agents are banned just like performance enhancing drugs, so if you take one, even by mistake (or even on the advice of a doctor) you are guilty, it is that simple.

  • Comment 55, posted at 21.07.16 16:07:30 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 52) : Hustler have a gardening section?

  • Comment 56, posted at 21.07.16 16:08:56 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 53) : i saw :)

  • Comment 57, posted at 21.07.16 16:10:00 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @schrodingers cat (Comment 54) : I could not disagree more vehemently. Monde’s career is over and he found work in the corporate world, rugby was not his only option. If he was not big enough or good enough, then like all the others that are not big enough or good enough, go find work in another field. Cheating is cheating, and it can never be justified. I completely agree with Hound in that there is no point in watching a sporting event where any sort of cheating is involved, it destroys the game. I have said I understand mistakes some may make with masking agents, but cheating is cheating.

  • Comment 58, posted at 21.07.16 16:11:37 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 58) : 100%

  • Comment 59, posted at 21.07.16 16:12:33 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 55) : Yes but most pro athletes have coaches managers and medical staff who are party to the entire list of banned substances and masking agents,with internet access today how can you possibly be innocent of taking one.Look it up the knowledge is available.Once againI get back to my point if the brain decathlete is too stupid to now what he is taking his support staff can’t be as well

  • Comment 60, posted at 21.07.16 16:13:26 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 60) : All athletes are required to sign the WADA declaration, which includes the full list of banned substances, so each athlete knows exactly what is banned, not only his support staff. I am just saying that if you actually spent just one day monitoring every single thing you put in your body, including any sort of medicine or supplements, it is not as hard as you think to miss something. Not saying that athlete is not responsible, they are, for their own mistakes, and the support staff for their mistakes allowing it to happen, also not saying the ban should not be very severe, I have said that above. In no way am I justifying it, just saying it is harder than you think, especially for the amateur athlete.

  • Comment 61, posted at 21.07.16 16:20:13 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 58) : ok you have a point . I just dont hope there are other players doing it that are getting away with it .

  • Comment 62, posted at 21.07.16 16:22:01 by schrodingers cat Reply

    schrodingers catCurrie Cup player
     
  • @schrodingers cat (Comment 62) : spot on, nobody should be cheating. Sorry if I was a little harsh in my post, it is just that in the modern world, personal responsibility is something that far to many people stay away from. These people always have someone else to blame for their own mistakes. When things are going well in your life, look around you at all the people that are making all those good things happen for you, but when things go wrong, look in the mirror and take responsibility for yourself, then go fix it. Sorry I know….harsh again….just a personal issue I have with the world at the moment. ;-) :mrgreen:

  • Comment 63, posted at 21.07.16 16:26:34 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • I have a question, given that athletes face both regular testing they are aware of and random testing of some of the athletes. Regular tests are easy to beat if you know when they are by cycling the drugs. It is the random tests that nail a majority of the athletes. After a test match, only two players from each team are tested randomly. Do you think that the support and medical staff look at these probabilities and make decisions with certain players to juice and risk it. They may be willing to sell out a player if several others are getting away with juicing. I really hope this is not happening, but any time big money is involved, then people start considering probabilities and human value starts to decrease.

  • Comment 64, posted at 21.07.16 16:34:24 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 41) : don’t think it’s just him it’s most of the cycling community of that time that made it possible!

  • Comment 65, posted at 21.07.16 16:43:52 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 65) : That is because most of the pro cyclists were blood doping. It is still impossible to detect.

  • Comment 66, posted at 21.07.16 16:46:27 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 40) : to be honest I did not expect anyone on Sharksworld to answer the questions! It’s just concerning how the system works!!!

  • Comment 67, posted at 21.07.16 16:49:53 by JD Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 63) : no worries m8

  • Comment 68, posted at 21.07.16 16:50:53 by schrodingers cat Reply

    schrodingers catCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 66) : to be 100% honest I think he’s the “sacrificial lamb” that took all the blame for what was (and to be 100% honest could still be) wrong with professional cycling. The whole thing reminded me a lot of Hansie Cronje who took all the blame for SA cricket.

  • Comment 69, posted at 21.07.16 16:56:09 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 69) : Wasn’t Hansie’s fault Devil made him do it.

  • Comment 70, posted at 21.07.16 17:24:44 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 70) : ja maybe but he was not the only one involved but yet he was the only one on trail just like LA.

  • Comment 71, posted at 21.07.16 18:34:55 by JD Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 61) :

    Question.

    Can someone who eats a normal diet, fruits, vegs, nuts, bread, meat, coffee, wine or beer, mostly fresh, sometimes processed, ever find himself fail one of these tests?

    If no, then it’s really not that hard. Just avoid powder mixes, tablets and capsules and check the ingredients of your prescriptions.

  • Comment 72, posted at 21.07.16 18:44:48 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 72) : but I don’t think you can really expect to make it as a pro athlete if you’re not taking some sort of legal supplement, right?

  • Comment 73, posted at 21.07.16 19:02:52 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 73) : @fyndraai (Comment 72) : think it’s not as simple as what we think. There’s a lot more stress on their bodies than during the good old days of cheese burgers and steak.

  • Comment 74, posted at 21.07.16 19:23:28 by JD Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 73) :

    Here’s my own brand of deductive logic on supplements:

    -If it’s proven to be effective at enhancing your performance, then by the definition of “performance enhancing drugs” it contains illegal or soon to be illegal ingredients.
    -If it’s legal, then all ingredients must have failed objective tests for enhancing your performance. The only effect you may expect from it is the placebo.

    It’s not just sports supplements. The same goes for weight loss and sex enhancing supplements. If it actually works, it’s because of some undeclared prescription ingredients.Supplement peddlers are scammers or crooks. People who take them are dupes or cheats.

  • Comment 75, posted at 21.07.16 19:26:07 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 73) :

    But I agree with your sentence all the way up to “legal”

    You can’t really expect to make it as a pro athlete, unless you take lots of powders and pills that contains performance enhancing substances.

  • Comment 76, posted at 21.07.16 19:34:16 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 76) : I have sympathy with your position. Not ready to jump straight in an agree with you outright, but I do see where you’re coming from.

    To my mind, creatine started the slippery slope of “legalised doping”

  • Comment 77, posted at 21.07.16 19:55:44 by robdylan Reply
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  • Really sad. Guys like this. Rugby is their whole life. Must be devastating to lose such a big part of who you are.

  • Comment 78, posted at 21.07.16 20:01:12 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • So did Chilli get 2 years and he got 4? Are there degrees of infraction?

  • Comment 79, posted at 21.07.16 20:03:22 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @fyndraai (Comment 76) : @robdylan (Comment 77) : Where does one draw the line though? Caffeine?

    @coolfusion (Comment 79) : Comment 7

  • Comment 80, posted at 21.07.16 21:11:58 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 76) : @robdylan (Comment 77) : Both your arguments are irrelevant,there are sports medicine boards who decide what is and isn’t legal.If you take an illegal substance you are a cheat.
    I want to puke whenever I hear professional sports people,in that I include the Russian tennis fox,who plead ignorant of knowing that they were cheating.
    Usually these people are taking the most obscure shit.These are people who’re professional athletes who work maybe once week for an hour or two for obscene amounts of money.The rest of the time and there is a lot of it is spent getting into condition to compete.That is what they do.They have any number of people assisting them,so how in the hell do they manage to be ignorant that they are breaking the law.
    Most of these athletes are totally obsessed by their bodies,and monitor them hourly,anyway ignorance of the law doesn’t hold up in court.

  • Comment 81, posted at 21.07.16 21:14:50 by The hound Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 79) : timing made the difference if he tested positive two years ago he would probably also had a two year ban.

  • Comment 82, posted at 21.07.16 21:50:14 by JD Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 81) : the whole Russian sport federation is probably going to be excluded from the Olympic Games because of doping!

  • Comment 83, posted at 21.07.16 21:53:49 by JD Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 81) : Just a question, will you generalize a sportsman that got performance enhancing supplements prescribe by a physician to assist in quicker recovery under the same umbrella? As it is still a performance enhanced product? Which will assist in rapid muscle growth ext.

  • Comment 84, posted at 21.07.16 22:21:28 by Henkb Reply
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  • @Henkb (Comment 84) : if its against the law its cheating.

  • Comment 85, posted at 21.07.16 23:33:55 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 85) : So if this person did it because his health/ injury depended on it and only for the time period it was subscribed and was clean before he took part in any form of pro sport again, you still comb him with the same comb

  • Comment 86, posted at 22.07.16 00:08:36 by Henkb Reply
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  • @Henkb (Comment 86) : if that person competes while he was using something that gave him an unfair advantage he is a cheat,he cheats himself,his team mates the opposition and the spectators.

  • Comment 87, posted at 22.07.16 00:31:27 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 87) : You missing my question, as I stated the person was clean again before competing in any form of pro sport again

  • Comment 88, posted at 22.07.16 00:33:31 by Henkb Reply
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  • @Henkb (Comment 88) : That has absolutely nothing to do with me,the only time I have an opinions is if I am involved as a spectator in the contest I am watching ,and am actually involved in a farce, because someone is playing with an un fair illegal advantage and making a dick out of me.

  • Comment 89, posted at 22.07.16 01:36:02 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 89) : all fair then, look I’m also against doping and roid use in sport, which is giving sportsmen and edge that would not have been if done so legally, whether it is supplements or from natural products

    but yet, i feel that there is sometimes a good place for it also, speaking out of my own experience though, but then it should be something that is controlled by your physician and not the abuse there of, so i’m not someone that will label someone just because he is using in such a matter, but only when it is used in the incorrect way and for the incorrect reasons

  • Comment 90, posted at 22.07.16 01:51:56 by Henkb Reply
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  • If all players are using or have used then they are competing on an even footing and the contest is not ruined……rather it becomes enhanced and more attractive because of the usage.

    I put it to you that this is already the case.

  • Comment 91, posted at 22.07.16 02:27:48 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 80) : No I agree that there must be repercussions. I am just stating that losing what would have been the most important years of your career and thereby probably the whole career, must be a massive thing to these guys something you never get over.

  • Comment 92, posted at 22.07.16 07:01:45 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 92) : I do think though that 4 years is maybe too much. 2 years would be a good sentence. The goal of sentences is rehabilitation not just punishment.

  • Comment 93, posted at 22.07.16 07:03:35 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @Henkb (Comment 90) : I think if you use it for rehab you should maybe not participate in any major competition for the duration. Also you and your doctor should announce it before treatment starts and a monitor in period should start. With a test at the end again.

  • Comment 94, posted at 22.07.16 07:08:09 by coolfusion Reply

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