Richard Ferguson

The Golden Goose returns


Written by Richard Ferguson (Richard Ferguson)

Posted in :Argentina, Original Content, Springboks on 18 Aug 2016 at 14:12
Tagged with : , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,

Johan Goosen has been selected to play at fullback for this weekend’s encounter between the Springboks and Argentina. This marks a comeback from the French wilderness for the young back, who last played for the Springboks in 2014.

Julian Redelinghuys earns his first start in the front row, joining seasoned veterans Adriaan Strauss and Tendai Mtawarira. Lood de Jager and Eben Etzebeth continue their partnership from the second row while Warren Whitely, Oupa Mohoje and Francois Louw only begin to work on their back row combination. Whiteley is in for the injured Duane Vermeulen, who will not take part in the Rugby Championship at all.

Faf de Klerk and Elton Jantjies can build on their Lions partnership starting for the Boks, with Damian de Allende and Lionel Mapoe the midfield. Bryan Habana makes his Springbok return as the most experienced back, sure to help the young Goosen. Ruan Combrinck is deservedly the other wing.

On the bench, Bongi Mbonambi takes the hooker spot leaving Malcolm Marx to wait some more for his first taste of Springbok rugby. Steven Kitshoff and Vincent Koch are the prop reserves while Pieter-Steph du Toit will be keen to join Stormers mate Etzebeth on the field of play.

Jaco Kriel is also in the mix, he will be hoping to make an impact off the bench.

As for the backs, Rudy Paige, Juan de Jongh and Jesse Kriel will all hope to get some game time to push for starting positions, Kriel being touted to get some time at fullback.

Springboks: 15 Johan Goosen, 14 Ruan Combrinck, 13 Lionel Mapoe, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Elton Jantjies, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Warren Whiteley, 7 Oupa Mohoje, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Julian Redelinghuys, 2 Adriaan Strauss, 1 Tendai Mtawarira

Substitutes: 16 Bongi Mbonambi, 17 Steven Kitshoff, 18 Vincent Koch, 19 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 20 Jaco Kriel, 21 Rudy Paige, 22 Juan de Jongh, 23, Jesse Kriel



101 Comments

  • Will Damian pass this test?

  • Comment 1, posted at 18.08.16 14:20:14 by vanmartin Reply
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  • So except maybe for Goosen not any surprises.

  • Comment 2, posted at 18.08.16 14:21:19 by JD Reply
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  • Glad to see The Goose back. He is an exceptionally talented player and hopefully he’s over his fragility.

  • Comment 3, posted at 18.08.16 14:21:47 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 1) : :lol: :lol: :lol:

    Will he pass at all?

  • Comment 4, posted at 18.08.16 14:22:19 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 3) : I give him 3-4 games maybe before the kak start again…unfortunatly

  • Comment 5, posted at 18.08.16 14:23:17 by R Hayward Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 1) : Not happy that he’s starting. Hasn’t done anything this season to merit selection. If he can get back to his best form I would start him.

  • Comment 6, posted at 18.08.16 14:24:27 by Quintin Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 4) : :lol:

  • Comment 7, posted at 18.08.16 14:24:50 by Quintin Reply

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  • So general public sentiment seems to suggest AC is costing the Boks because he hasnt picked Kriel and Marx and he is blindly loyal to WP players and the Boks are doomed to lose by plenty.

    Provincial bias and traditional coach hatred aside i think this is a pretty good side with the potential for some serious impact from the bench (Boks have often lacked impetus from the bench)

  • Comment 8, posted at 18.08.16 14:25:51 by SheldonK Reply

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  • When last did the boks play with only 1 shark in the 23? I’m not complaining since we’ve been poor at best, just curious.

  • Comment 9, posted at 18.08.16 14:27:41 by Dragnipur Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 8) : its an ok team and i think we will win . but im not sure how people can be excited by this bench ? Jaco kriel yes . PsDT ja sure . the rest ? mmmm

  • Comment 10, posted at 18.08.16 14:31:31 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 10) : All those guys on the bench are very mobile and good runners with the ball. I know everyone wants to see all Lions players and nothing else but those guys are still good.

  • Comment 11, posted at 18.08.16 14:35:04 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 11) : haha . I dont want to see ALL Lions players .

  • Comment 12, posted at 18.08.16 14:36:44 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 12) : Lets be honest if AC had literally selected the exact same Lions team from the Super rugby final for this test there would be significantly less people complaining in general. Personally i dont think that would have been clever but there are many that think differently

  • Comment 13, posted at 18.08.16 14:41:03 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 12) : ja dude, have to say, I’m not sure what’s going to make you happy here, but 7 Lions in the 23 has got to be close? Hell, you now have SEVEN TIMES as many Springboks as the Sharks. Just let that sink in

  • Comment 14, posted at 18.08.16 14:41:28 by robdylan Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 13) : @robdylan (Comment 14) :

    You guys as misunderstanding . starting 15 is fine by me . Except we could maybe have given somebody else a go at 11 . (Mvovo ? )

    Im just saying that a bench made up of Page and Juan de Jongh does not get me excited .. Solid ? perhaps . but exciting … ?

    but lets go with “Who else is there ?” .

  • Comment 15, posted at 18.08.16 14:47:00 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 15) : Look the ‘who else’ question opens up a whole different can of worms as people’s opinions very greatly. My point was more that less people would moan if the coach just picked the current flavour of month…i wonder how different the All Blacks and Aussies would look if they did the same, food for thought perhaps? i wont comment on Paige and DeJongh as my opinion differs from the general public opinion

  • Comment 16, posted at 18.08.16 14:54:20 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 16) : Dont think the AB’s are going through as big a transition phase as we are . I dont mind players from other unions . the Lock pairing for example is fine . Would i like to see Mostert in the team ? yes . Is he the best in SA ? no i dont think so .

    Its a problem for me if we are not picking the best players .

    but lets see .

  • Comment 17, posted at 18.08.16 15:03:55 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 17) : If i use the All Blacks as an example…the Canes won super rugby…how many do they have in the team to play Aus? Just interesting when you take a step back and look at things. So is this the ‘best team’ or ‘my preferred team’ no but it is the best guys AC thinks can get him a result this weekend so lets see as you say

  • Comment 18, posted at 18.08.16 15:14:07 by SheldonK Reply

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  • 13 of the match 23 have less than 10 test caps – 5 of which are in the starting backline.

    I reckon there are some massive changes happening at the Boks at the moment, and it is rather exciting!

  • Comment 19, posted at 18.08.16 15:26:32 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • Possible 2nd half backline: 9. Paige 10. Goosen 11. Habana 12. De Jongh 13. Mapoe 14. Combrinck 15. Kriel…

  • Comment 20, posted at 18.08.16 15:33:22 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 18) : yes , have noticed that not many Canes players have been selected .

    But you also have to admit that only Combrinck , Mapoe and Faf will be in the team when all players are fit

    Elton is playing because Pollard and Lambie is out
    Warren is playing because VerDuane is out injured
    Kriel is in because Coetzee is out

    Redelinghuys , im not sure about .

    So by next year we will be back to 3 Lions players in the team . Im not complaining . Im just saying it how it is . Taking a step back and all

  • Comment 21, posted at 18.08.16 15:34:13 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 21) : Look to be honest Combrinck and Faf have done well but need to continue to do so in order to keep a spot. Whiteley has his chance now to prove a point with Vermuelen out…if he is average he cant complain. Same goes with Jantjies…if he performs then no reason not to keep him. Jaco Kriel…he does well in an open fast game but to be honest i think the tighter slog of a test wouldnt suit him…perhaps he proves me wrong. And tighthead is up for grabs i think so maybe Redelinghuis. Mostert is unlucky that there are some quality locks in the country currently. If Van Rensburg can continue playing well he can force his way into the Bok squad i think. Marx may be the new Schalk Brits im afraid

  • Comment 22, posted at 18.08.16 15:39:37 by SheldonK Reply

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  • I just wonder how this overseas Bok team would fare instead of the one AC picked: 1. Kitshoff 2. DuPlessis 3. DuPlessis 4.Willemse 5. DuPlessis 6. Louw 7. Burger 8. Spies 9. Pienaar 10. Goosen 11. LeRoux 12 Steyn 13. Ebersohn 14. JPP 15. Viljoen…..is local really lekker?

  • Comment 23, posted at 18.08.16 15:52:00 by SheldonK Reply

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  • Current vs aboard only

    15 Johan Goosen, – Ludik
    14 Ruan Combrinck, – JPP
    13 Lionel Mapoe, – Ebersohn
    12 Damian de Allende, – F Steyn
    11 Bryan Habana, – le Roux
    10 Elton Jantjies, – Goosen
    9 Faf de Klerk, – Pienaar
    8 Warren Whiteley, – Spies
    7 Oupa Mohoje, – Burger
    6 Francois Louw,
    5 Lood de Jager,
    4 Eben Etzebeth, – Willemse
    3 Julian Redelinghuys, – du plessis
    2 Adriaan Strauss, – du plessis
    1 Tendai Mtawarira – kitshoff

    New team

    15 Ruan Combrinck
    14 JPP
    13 Lionel Mapoe
    12 Damian de Allende – F Steyn ( not sure )
    11 le Roux
    10 Johan Goosen,
    9 Faf de Klerk,
    8 Warren Whiteley,
    7 Oupa Mohoje,
    6 Francois Louw,
    5 Lood de Jager,
    4 Eben Etzebeth,
    3 Julian Redelinghuys – du plessis ( not sure )
    2 du plessis,
    1 Tendai Mtawarira – kitshoff ( not sure )

  • Comment 24, posted at 18.08.16 16:11:50 by John Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 22) : @Zibbie (Comment 21) : Elton doesn’t look to be cut out for high pressure games. He stumbled in the SR final and really didn’t perform well against the Irish. If it was up to me, the 2 Arg games would be his final chances to show that he can be an international FH. If he doesn’t perform, drop him and select someone else. Lambie isn’t far away from recovering and Goosen could be given a shot. It’s very rare to get a loose open running game that suits Elton at international level, it’s a much more controlled environment.

  • Comment 25, posted at 18.08.16 16:45:22 by Quintin Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 20) : If you look at De Jong at the 7′s and De Allende’s SR campaign you have to wonder how’d they get into the Bok team. De Allende owes us a good performance in the Bok jersey, he’s been off his best for quite a while.

  • Comment 26, posted at 18.08.16 16:48:01 by Quintin Reply

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  • @Quintin (Comment 25) : oh you can be very glad i dont pick the team …. Jesse kriel would not have been allowed near the squad

  • Comment 27, posted at 18.08.16 17:56:33 by Zibbie Reply
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  • Proof is in the tasting of the pudding.

    If the Boks play well, brilliant team. If they’re rubbish, then poor selection/game plan/coach/administration.

    It truly is a useless conversation before the first rugby championship game, and even then, we’ll only really know where we stand when facing the AB’s.

  • Comment 28, posted at 18.08.16 19:37:47 by FireTheLooser Reply

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  • @R Hayward (Comment 5) : And you base your comment on what exactly? Goosen has had a bad run of injuries, and a lot of it was poor player management by Meyer. That said he has played quite a few games for Racing. Does this make Lambie fragile too? He has had as much luck of late with injuries , as Goosen had two years ago?

  • Comment 29, posted at 18.08.16 19:58:02 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @Pokkel (Comment 3) : Well he has since played 45 games for Racing at 10/13/15.
    Don’t see much fragile in that! He had two bad injuries compounded by poor management from HM.
    Do you regard Duanne Vermeulen as fragile? He has had like 4 knee ops prior to becoming a Bok!!
    I know this as I rented business premises from his mother, so followed his career closely. Funny how perceptions are formed!

  • Comment 30, posted at 18.08.16 20:57:02 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @John (Comment 24) : Am I the only one that thinks Michael Rhodes can add significant value to the boks at 7?

  • Comment 31, posted at 18.08.16 22:30:47 by Rooiwillie Reply

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  • @Rooiwillie (Comment 31) : Yes.

  • Comment 32, posted at 18.08.16 23:46:13 by The hound Reply
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  • @Rooiwillie (Comment 31) :

    If you mean he can serve breakfast at 7 then I agree. There is value in that.

  • Comment 33, posted at 19.08.16 03:29:44 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 21) : I agree with your previous comment on de jongh he has shown nothing that warrants even a bench spot. As for Paige, spare a thought for AC. Our scrumhalf stocks in SA are terrible at the moment he can use Ruan cause everyone complains. Cobus is still out and way off form. As for your last comment Elton and Warren only there because others are injured, that’s kind of how it works. Now they have the shot that have to establish themselves. Le roux came on as replacement for the established nr 15 and made it his spot. If they can’t then they must be bench or out. We can’t keep complaining about our rugby not measuring up to kiwis and then still condone mediocrity or favour previously disadvantaged unions blindly.

  • Comment 34, posted at 19.08.16 07:12:46 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 34) : Hougaard probably the only other real option at the moment except he still has to prove why his own union has opted for paige ahead of him at scrumhalf.

  • Comment 35, posted at 19.08.16 07:32:42 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @Quintin (Comment 25) : Ja I think Elton big problem is he doesn’t cope with change. It showed when he as an on form flyhalf went to wp and became anonymous. The pattern has to be drilled in and even then he struggles to adapt midstream.

  • Comment 36, posted at 19.08.16 07:36:07 by coolfusion Reply

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  • I am happy with most of the team, but why the (insert swear word here) is De Jong in the team? Cost in the sevens and will cost us at the Boks.

  • Comment 37, posted at 19.08.16 08:25:38 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • Gosh reading the comments again even mine we always focus so much on the negative, SA sports fan syndrome i guess. But lets look at some positives. Goosen at 15- a change from LeRoux was needed and Goosen has been playing well in France. The Boks also do well when we have a big boot at 15 (Joubert,Monty,Steyn). Combrinck continues to get a run- he has been rewarded for his good form and long may it continue. The 9/10 combo is consistent again (how often does that happen in recent Bok history?). Whiteley gets a chance to prove he is the no.1 option for the Boks at 8th man. And Redelinghuis is also rewarded for his good form in super rugby and we have been crying out for a form TH to be picked (same goes for Koch on the bench-redemption time vs Argies for him?). PSDT and Jaco Kriel offers serious impact off the bench for the forwards- when did we last get that impact? (Maybe when Burger was starting out)

  • Comment 38, posted at 19.08.16 08:26:57 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 38) : True to your usual form again Sheldon,you were a huge Meyer apologist as well as a Gary Gold man I think you just have blind trust in authority.There are glaring mistakes in this team that can be squarely laid at Coetzee’s door,
    Straus as captain and now Habbanna instated as vice captain,bad choices and thats where we start. Louw,Mahoje,de Allende ,Beast ,Paige,de Jong,Jesse Kriel,all have no form.
    This team will probably beat the Argies,but then the Sharks could also do that,but its going to to come horribly unstuck against Aussie and God help us I have a ticket to watch this team play THE AB ‘s in Durban,
    With only Beast in the team its going to be very easy to wear my black Sharks shirt and support the black team.

  • Comment 39, posted at 19.08.16 08:46:29 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 39) : As i said…SA sports fan syndrome. Never said this team was perfect.

  • Comment 40, posted at 19.08.16 08:55:46 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 40) : Anew coach has the opportunity to start fresh,this guy has missed the boat he could have cleaned out all the old shit Marx for Straus,Kriel,Techlenburgh,,our Ginger for Louw Mahoje,Dylan Smith ,Thomas du Toit thats the future.
    Imagine a scrum of Smith,Marx,Du toit,Lewies,Dutoit,the Twins,Marcel,all under 25,thats where he should be thinking .

  • Comment 41, posted at 19.08.16 09:02:30 by The hound Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 36) : I think this comment is really unfair . At that time Eltons father has just passed away . Having to deal with a new environment on top of this is not easy .

    He also waited 4 years for a 2nd chance . I was sitting in a pub watching the 1st test vs Ireland . I was hoping Elton would get a few minutes game time was was not expecting much . When Lambie got injured i felt sad and worried for Lambie , but i was hopeful that Elton will be able to show what he can do . As Lambie was being taken off and Elton warming up to come on somebody said “ag nee [email protected] , nou gaan ons [email protected]” . I dont feel the rugby public is giving him a fair chance

    Also You need to take into consideration that much of the Lions success is based on the forwards giving the backs goof front foot ball . Now you have AC picking the whole Lions back line but very few Lions forwards . Thos forwards that are being picked are not performing well . So the backs wont look as good as they can .

    I believe Elton can play out of his skin , the second Pollard is back Elton will be dropped and forgotten for how ever long till he is suddenly needed again .

    Yes Elton did not perform in the SR final . How many Lions players did perform well ? im hoping the players learn from the experience and improve in the future . The Canes lost last years final as well .

    Please also come show me how well Pollard has performed in pressure matches . You seem to have forgotten how he was booed off the field against the Argies last year ? short term memory loss on your side ?

  • Comment 42, posted at 19.08.16 09:03:16 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 42) : You are 100% correct in everything you said here.

  • Comment 43, posted at 19.08.16 09:07:53 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 41) : In every team selected (every single one) there will always be good players that could have been selected instead. The Canes won Super rugby and have how many in the test side tomorrow? Will AC be perfect in selection- definitely not. But he is the coach and trust me he isnt going anywhere. So guess some people will just be grumpy and moan for another 4yrs. As i said the team isnt perfect but i try to see the positives that are there. And he is only a few months into the job…lets see how it develops

  • Comment 44, posted at 19.08.16 09:09:52 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 44) : Thats the problem 4months in the job and we have him for another 4 years.Straus and Habbanna captain and vice captain,even Meyer had more imagination.

  • Comment 45, posted at 19.08.16 09:20:35 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 45) : Look im also not thrilled about the captain choice but Habana vice captain makes sense for now. AC will learn a lot of lessons this rugby championship and i guess his tenure success will be determined by how much he learns from those lessons and adapts. Im trying to take the view that in any side selected not matter how ‘perfect’ i could always bitch and moan about 90% of the players for some or other reason…but that just makes me a grumpy person in general so i try find the positives…and no it not always easy

  • Comment 46, posted at 19.08.16 09:28:15 by SheldonK Reply

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  • Would love to see Lambie @ 10 and Goosen @ 13

  • Comment 47, posted at 19.08.16 09:33:04 by Bite me Reply

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  • @fyndraai (Comment 33) : Comment of the thread so far

  • Comment 48, posted at 19.08.16 09:37:49 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 46) : How does Habbanna make sense,he is a selfish player,who spends more time writhing on the ground than an Italian soccer player,he should’ve retired after Jakes world cup.
    Look at the way the AB’s pick their team,look at guys like Dagg and Corey Jane being dropped from the last world cup team,look at the position Julian Savea is currently in.
    They are the best in the world because the pick their best team on current form,not reputation.

  • Comment 49, posted at 19.08.16 09:58:41 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 49) : Habana makes sense as the rest of the backline are very inexperienced. Strauss is in the forwards so someone needs to lead the backs and Habana is still a very good player. Habana is a wing so damn right he should be selfish. All Blacks pick on form only? The Canes won super rugby therefore surely those players are on form…how many are starting tomorrow?

  • Comment 50, posted at 19.08.16 10:09:25 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 50) : When was the last time you saw Hbbanna offer anything to the backline that wasn’t about himself and his records.De Allende and deJong pass more than him.In fact we have to go back a long to remember him passing a ball.
    New Zealand actually had four teams in the top 6 in Super Rugby and they played against each other.There was form in everyone of the teams.

  • Comment 51, posted at 19.08.16 10:24:00 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 51) : You do realise Habana is a wing right? How often does Julian Savea pass the ball? The fact remains that the Canes won Super rugby therefore their players are in the best form so if selection is only on form then those players should be picked, but they arent. NZ does not only pick on form.

  • Comment 52, posted at 19.08.16 10:33:56 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 52) : Tell me the out of form players in the New Zealand team for tomorrow,or better still tell me the form players not selected.Now do the same exercise with our team.

  • Comment 53, posted at 19.08.16 12:06:12 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 52) : The only problem with Habana’s play recently is he shoots up on the defense too often to either tackle the defender as soon as he receives the ball(which rarely happens) then all it takes is an offload and the opposition wing is clear, or he goes for the intercept, misses and a huge gap is left open to exploit. Still think he has some good attributes. When he doesn’t shoot up on the defense he tackles very well, his positioning is very good especially when it’s a kicking contest and he’s good in the air too. Plus, like you said, his experience will do the others good at the moment. If you take away Habana’s 117 caps, our backline’s total caps would only be 36.

  • Comment 54, posted at 19.08.16 12:09:00 by Quintin Reply

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  • @Quintin (Comment 54) : With all that being said, I don’t think he has much to offer on attack anymore though.

  • Comment 55, posted at 19.08.16 12:10:09 by Quintin Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 53) : I never said the Bok side was purely selected on form. The Canes won super rugby yet only Barrett starts? Savea and Squire cant make their provincial side but are in the All Black side? Yes the All Blacks have selected good players…but they dont pick based purely on super rugby form.

  • Comment 56, posted at 19.08.16 12:15:35 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 53) : Who would you put in Habana’s position? I think Skosan could be good, just not sure whether he plays left or right wing? But he probably needs to hang around the Bok camp 1st and play a couple of games from the bench. Don’t know who else is on form atm?

  • Comment 57, posted at 19.08.16 12:16:44 by Quintin Reply

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  • @Quintin (Comment 54) : Habana is still quick and has a high work rate, he does make a lot of his tackles and like i said the vice captaincy makes sense in terms of that backline. Yes he has his faults…but show me a player that has no faults?

  • Comment 58, posted at 19.08.16 12:17:51 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Quintin (Comment 54) : if Habbana gets Yellow carded our back line also has 36 caps

  • Comment 59, posted at 19.08.16 12:23:41 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Quintin (Comment 57) : Skosans plays the opposite wing to Combrinck ….

  • Comment 60, posted at 19.08.16 12:24:42 by Zibbie Reply
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  • Lets examine the number 1 ranked team in the world:
    15. Israel Dagg, 14. Ben Smith, 13. Malakai Fekitoa, 12. Ryan Crotty, 11. Waisake Naholo, 10. Beauden Barrett, 9. Aaron Smith, 8. Kieran Read (captain), 7. Sam Cane, 6. Jerome Kaino, 5. Samuel Whitelock, 4. Brodie Retallick, 3. Owen Franks, 2. Codie Taylor, 1. Wyatt Crockett

    Are those the 15 form players from super rugby? I would say that 5. Whitelock, 6 Kaino, 7. Cane , 9. Smith, 12. Crotty, 13 Fekitoa 15. Dagg arent the current best players purely on form. Thats 7 of the starting 15 that arent the form player from super rugby. Doesnt mean they arent damn good players though.

  • Comment 61, posted at 19.08.16 12:33:28 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 52) : @The hound (Comment 51) : for sure All Black team is not selected only on form as Savea could not make the starting 15 in Super rugby but he gets a spot in the All Black match 23.

  • Comment 62, posted at 19.08.16 12:34:12 by JD Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 61) : So who would you replace those 7 with.

  • Comment 63, posted at 19.08.16 12:40:49 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 61) : I’m going to side with Hound on this one; the All Black starting 15 might not be *the* form players, but they are all at least *in* form players. No ways are you going to convince me that De Ellendig is at all in form at present. Also not convinced of the form of Louw, De Jager, Strauss or Mtwarira.

  • Comment 64, posted at 19.08.16 12:55:11 by Culling Song Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 63) : At 5 probably the Canes locks (Fafita or even Fatialofa) 6. Victor Vito/Jordan Taufua or even Brad Shields 7. Ardie Savea 9. TJ Perenara 15 Damien McKenzie. None of the NZ centres really put up their hands so id go with the Canes guys Willis Halaholo and Matt Proctor, maybe even the Anton Lienert Brown and Seta Tamanivalu

  • Comment 65, posted at 19.08.16 12:56:27 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Culling Song (Comment 64) : I would like to ask the following question . Lets say for one moment the Boks were playing the All Blacks tomorrow . Each team uses the same team sheet they have for this weekend respective games . Who is your money on ? who do you back on Superbru ?

    id tell you mine wont be for the green team ….

  • Comment 66, posted at 19.08.16 13:00:41 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Culling Song (Comment 64) : Before you get carried away just remember that i NEVER said the Bok side was picked purely on form. The argument was that the All Blacks pick purely on form and they definitely do not. If we are judging form on super rugby which you are with the Boks then the Hurricanes players are the form players in NZ yet only 1 of them starts. And that proves my point that the All Blacks dont pick purely the form players.

  • Comment 67, posted at 19.08.16 13:01:11 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 66) : The number 1 team in the world plays the no.3…why would you pick the no.3 team in any respect? If the Lions played the Sharks in CC with the same team sheets would you pick the Sharks? No you would pick the Lions.

  • Comment 68, posted at 19.08.16 13:03:16 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 68) : my point is people are saying NZL dont pick players on form . Yet you still expect this team to beat the Boks .

  • Comment 69, posted at 19.08.16 13:10:45 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 69) : Well being the no.1 ranked side comfortably you would expect them to beat any side currently. The fact that they dont pick purely the form guy in each position doesnt meant they pick crap players…they still pick quality players that have produced the goods in the past and well very possibly produce the goods again…even if there is perhaps another guy playing better in that position for the last few games for his provincial side. The form is temporary saying wasnt just made up out of nothing

  • Comment 70, posted at 19.08.16 13:14:55 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 67) : Let me phrase this differently. I agree that the All Blacks don’t only pick on form, BUT they also don’t persist with out of form players (at least in the starting 15), whereas the Boks often do play players long past the point where they should have been demoted (Pierre Spies, 50+ caps being a prime example)

  • Comment 71, posted at 19.08.16 13:15:29 by Culling Song Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 65) : The only one I agree with is Ardie Savea,and he is on the bench ,as is Perenara,
    Whitlock and Rettalick are an awesome combination, and are chosen as such much like Mattfield and Botha,
    I’ll also give you Crotty who reminds me a lot of Jean deVilliers,can’t for the life of me see what the fuss about either of them is.
    Damien McKenzie is still too young and I’d pick Dagg or Ben Smith ahead of him at this stage,next year will be a different story as soon as he is ready he will make the team ,but this time next year bet your arse Beast and Habbanna will still be in our team.

  • Comment 72, posted at 19.08.16 13:18:31 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 72) : Habbanna will have to be in the team until 2019 since we are not gooimg anybody else

  • Comment 73, posted at 19.08.16 13:21:29 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Culling Song (Comment 64) : You can add Jesse Kriel, Bongi Mbonambi, Rudy Paige and Juan de Jongh to that list.

  • Comment 74, posted at 19.08.16 13:22:21 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 71) : Yeh look the only point i was trying to make is that the All Blacks dont pick purely on form. How the Boks select is a whole different conundrum and possibly boarders topics not discussed here.

  • Comment 75, posted at 19.08.16 13:23:14 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 72) : You have missed the boat in terms of my point. But its Friday and i couldnt be bothered.

  • Comment 76, posted at 19.08.16 13:24:52 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 75) : The Boks pick players because the player has been picked before . Creating a paradox to never select new players because the player has never been selected before

  • Comment 77, posted at 19.08.16 13:25:24 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 75) : Thats not true in terms of Jesse Kriel and de Allende,Straus,Houghaardt ,Louw,

  • Comment 78, posted at 19.08.16 13:26:29 by The hound Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 73) : Oh come one, there’s plenty of time until then to get someone to fill his spot. In the mean time, he’s only there to help the inexperienced guys in the backline until they get the hang of it on international level, which might not take that long, then someone like Skosan can also be groomed from the bench and given a shot when Habana leaves or sits on the bench. And that might even happen after the Arg games, maybe the 1st Aus one if they seem settled in by then. Agree that we definitely have to groom a player to replace him for the future. Like I said, it might not take too long.

  • Comment 79, posted at 19.08.16 13:32:00 by Quintin Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 49) : @Zibbie (Comment 77) : I think all test teams pick their spine on reputation and the rest comes from form :!: :shock: :?: Ok, lets look at the NZ team playing this weekend, do you think Read has been the best 8th man in NZ this season??? Ryan Crotty(12)??? The Blindside Kaino?? Who has been SR best backline player(mackenzie) is he in the squad?? Noooo, what about having Savea on the bench ahead of the chiefs wingers???Best opensider on the bench not starting, form s/h on the bench :!: :!: Wyatt Crockett :?: :?: really this season he was not even 1st choice for the Crusaders, Cruden ahead of Lima on this season’s form??

  • Comment 80, posted at 19.08.16 13:43:43 by Tumza Reply

    TumzaUnder 21 player
     
  • @Zibbie (Comment 77) : You are making the exception the rule. Combrinck, Kriel, Mapoe, etc…what about them?

  • Comment 81, posted at 19.08.16 13:45:03 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 78) : Who would you have chosen ahead these guys in the squad not only the team??

  • Comment 82, posted at 19.08.16 13:45:36 by Tumza Reply

    TumzaUnder 21 player
     
  • @The hound (Comment 78) : Again missing the point…

  • Comment 83, posted at 19.08.16 13:46:01 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Tumza (Comment 80) : but still you would expect this AB’s team to beat anybody . im not even very confident of the bokke beating the argies tomorrow

  • Comment 84, posted at 19.08.16 13:46:23 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Quintin (Comment 79) : My problem with Habbana is that he is not a team player he plays for his own stats,specialising in the intercept try,which is his main claim to fame.In doing so he expose the rest of the backline as he is constantly ahead the line.
    How he is going to help the inexperienced backline players eludes me
    If he has any say in the backline it will be to insist that every ball is meant for him and as even his number one fan here concedes Brian doesn’t pass shit.

  • Comment 85, posted at 19.08.16 13:49:26 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 81) : you do not want to know how long i had to wait for that to happen . When players like Pollard are still garenteed a starting spot , that does not install any confidence in the selections

  • Comment 86, posted at 19.08.16 13:49:53 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 83) : How is that missing the point,if I have then what was your point in comment 75.

  • Comment 87, posted at 19.08.16 13:51:15 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 87) : The point was that how the Boks select is a whole different conundrum that involves many factors and some of those can possibly lead to topics not discussed. The Boks dont pick purely on form…but neither does any other international side. Players are in the side for various reasons. Do i agree with all of them, no but doesnt change the fact that they are there for various reasons that the coach believes are important.

  • Comment 88, posted at 19.08.16 13:57:46 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 86) : i must have missed the new conference where Pollard was guaranteed a starting spot?

  • Comment 89, posted at 19.08.16 13:58:33 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 84) : Thats a different point because thats where the system and continuity comes in and AC just came in you can never expect a coach to make drastic changes and insert Van Rensburg and Skosan because they were the inform players. That would be the whole combo from 9 to 15 having less than 10 caps, how confident will they be when playing a different system.

  • Comment 90, posted at 19.08.16 14:04:20 by Tumza Reply

    TumzaUnder 21 player
     
  • @Tumza (Comment 82) : Jansen van Rensberg,Esterhuizen,Paul Jordan,Marx,Chiliboy,Philip vander Walt,Tecklenburgh,Janne Kirsten,

  • Comment 91, posted at 19.08.16 14:05:05 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 85) : See my previous comments (54 specifically). I agree he is certainly not the Habana of old and his habbit of going for the intercept leaves us wide open at times but I wouldn’t say that he can’t add anything to an inexperienced backline seeing that hes the only guy there with more than 15 caps. He could organise them defensively if they lapse in concentration, motivate them when things aren’t going as planned etc. He was isn those situations on international levels before, they weren’t. But let me be clear, I don’t want him there for the whole competition. Only until the rest of the guys there look like they don’t need him, which, like I said earlier might be not at all or after a couple of games, we’ll see tomorrow.

  • Comment 92, posted at 19.08.16 14:11:18 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Zibbie (Comment 86) : Pollard isn’t guaranteed anything if HM’s is not around.

  • Comment 93, posted at 19.08.16 14:13:09 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Quintin (Comment 93) : i think he wil be selected because there is no one else …

  • Comment 94, posted at 19.08.16 14:37:59 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 94) : Do you not rate Jantjies?

  • Comment 95, posted at 19.08.16 14:40:42 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 95) : Oh you misunderstand my comment . I dont think theres nobody else . But the rest of the rugby world seems to think differently. also see post @Zibbie (Comment 42) : .

  • Comment 96, posted at 19.08.16 14:52:27 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 96) : i saw that comment so was a bit confused hence my question. I do agree with your comment on Jantjies by the way. I also think Pollard like Rob Du Preez Jnr would be better suited to 12 than 10. But yeh just my opinion.

  • Comment 97, posted at 19.08.16 15:01:56 by SheldonK Reply

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  • When a player is 25yrs old he is seen to be at the peak of his playing career. So bearing that in mind this is the 2009 SA Schools team (These guys should be around 25 now):
    15 Riaan Britz (Free State)
    14 Sizo Maseko (Pumas)
    13 Piet Lindeque (Free State)
    12 Andile Jho (Border)
    11 Brian Skosana (Eastern Province CD)
    10 William van Wyk (Western Province)
    09 Pieter Rademan (Free State) – Captain
    08 Siya Kolisi (Eastern Province)
    07 Jean Cook (Free State)
    06 Lean Schwartz (Blue Bulls)
    05 Carl Wenger (Free State)
    04 Frederick Schnetler (KZN)
    03 Jozua Malherbe (Western Province)
    02 Bongi Mbonambi (Lions)
    01 Stephanus Kotze (Free State)

    Replacements
    16 Siyabonga Ntubeni (Lions)
    17 Zolani Faku (SA Academy)
    18 Chris Cloete (Border)
    19 Nizaam Carr (Western Province)
    20 Ricky Schroeder (Western Province)
    21 Tony Jantjies (Blue Bulls)
    22 Philippus du Plessis (Western Province)

    Makes for interesting reading…

  • Comment 98, posted at 19.08.16 15:06:32 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 91) : Jansen van Rensberg will be selected this year still, Esterhuizen good defence but not yet good on attack hence the lack of tries by the sharks in SR,Paul Jordan, van Rensberg and juan are beter options, Marx is there already,Chiliboy is not 1st choice for the Sharks,vander Walt is a 8 and we have Warren,Tecklenburgh still has to improve his defence,Jannes Kirsten is not a good ball carrier but I like his work rate remember he played against the kak Aussis :mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 99, posted at 19.08.16 15:27:56 by Tumza Reply

    TumzaUnder 21 player
     
  • More Interesting reading: The SA u20 side from 2011 (These guys should also be around 25 now)
    Backs:
    Craig Barry (Western Province)
    Ulrich Beyers (Blue Bulls)
    Johan Goosen (Free State)
    Paul Jordaan (KwaZulu-Natal)
    Tshotsho Mbovane (Western Province)
    Wandile Mjekevu (Golden Lions)
    Pieter Rademan (Free State)
    Courtnall Skosan (Blue Bulls)
    Jaco Taute (Golden Lions)
    Francois Venter (Blue Bulls)
    Johan Welthagen (Leopards)

    Forwards:
    Arno Botha (Blue Bulls) – captain
    Nizaam Carr (Western Province)
    Jean Cook (Free State)
    Cornell du Preez (Leopards)
    Eben Etzebeth (Western Province)
    John Roy Jenkinson (Leopards)
    Siyamthanda Kolisi (Western Province)
    Stephan Kotze (Free State)
    Francois Kleinhans (KwaZulu-Natal)
    Mbongeni Mbonambi (Blue Bulls)
    Nic Schonert (KwaZulu-Natal)
    Juan Schoeman (Blue Bulls)
    Michael van Vuuren (Free State)
    Ruan Venter (Golden Lions)

  • Comment 100, posted at 19.08.16 15:29:03 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Zibbie (Comment 42) : Look it’s my opinion. I could be wrong. I just don’t think he can adapt well. I would love to have 2 attacking flyhalfs like Lambie and Jantjies far more than a one dimensional steyn a shellshocked Pollard. Let’s see if he proves me wrong but I don’t think he has what it takes to lift a team that struggles or that may even be a little outgunned at times.

  • Comment 101, posted at 19.08.16 19:08:20 by coolfusion Reply

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