robdylan

Coetzee adds four to Bok squad


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Springboks, The Rugby Championship on 21 Sep 2016 at 15:50
Tagged with : , , , , , ,

Springbok coach Allister Coetzee has made a number of changes to his squad ahead of the Springboks two remaining fixtures in the Rugby Championship. With many calling for wholesale substitutions, Coetzee has opted to keep faith in the majority of those who toured Australia and New Zealand.

In fact, the only player from that tour group to miss out on a place in the revised squad is Sharks tight-head Lourens Adriaanse. Somewhat unluckily, the big man drops out to make place for fit-again Julian Redelinghuys, who picked up an injury during the first test against Argentina a month ago. Also returning to the squad after a week or two out is Lood de Jager, but Coetzee has opted to keep his replacement, Willem Alberts, as a 31st member of his group.

Also back in the picture are Willie le Roux and Pat Lambie, although SA Rugby have pointed out that the latter has been called up to “ascertain his readiness and confidence for international rugby or whether he rather needs to play another match in the Currie Cup for the Cell C Sharks”. Many Lambie fans will be worried that after such a long time out, a hasty return to the top flight may not be in the player’s interests. Let’s hope that sanity prevails in this case.

Here’s the full squad:

1. Willem Alberts (Stade Francais, France) 39 caps, 35 points
2. Damian de Allende (DHL Stormers) 19 caps, 10 points
3. Lood de Jager (Toyota Cheetahs) 23 caps, 20 points
4. Juan de Jongh (DHL Stormers) 17 caps, 15 points
5. Faf de Klerk (Emirates Lions) 7 caps, 0 points
6. Pieter-Steph du Toit (DHL Stormers) 15 caps, 15 points
7. Eben Etzebeth (DHL Stormers) 51 caps, 10 points
8. Johan Goosen (Racing 92, France) 10 caps, 20 points
9. Bryan Habana (vice-captain, Toulon, France) 121 caps, 330 points
10. Francois Hougaard (Worcester Warriors, England) 37 caps, 25 points
11. Elton Jantjies (Emirates Lions), 9 caps, 69 points
12. Steven Kitshoff (Bordeaux Bègles, France) 5 caps, 0 points
13. Vincent Koch (DHL Stormers/Steval Pumas) 5 caps, 0 points
14. Jaco Kriel (Emirates Lions), 5 caps, 0 points
15. Jesse Kriel (Vodacom Bulls), 16 caps, 15 points
16. Patrick Lambie (Cell C Sharks), 51 caps, 137 points
17. Willie le Roux (Canon Eagles, Japan) 37 caps, 45 points
18. Francois Louw (Bath, England) 50 caps, 40 points
19. Lionel Mapoe (Emirates Lions) 7 caps, 0 points
20. Malcolm Marx (Emirates Lions) 1 cap, 0 points
21. Bongi Mbonambi (DHL Stormers) 2 caps, 0 points
22. Oupa Mohoje (Toyota Cheetahs) 12 caps, 0 points
23. Franco Mostert (Emirates Lions) 4 caps, 0 points
24. Tendai Mtawarira (Cell C Sharks), 82 caps, 10 points
25. Lwazi Mvovo (Cell C Sharks) 17 caps, 30 points
26. Trevor Nyakane (Vodacom Bulls) 26 caps, 5 points
27. Rudy Paige (Vodacom Bulls) 4 caps, 0 points
28. Julian Redelinghuys (Emirates Lions) 6 caps, 0 points
29. Morne Steyn (Stade Francais, France) 64 caps, 703 points
30. Adriaan Strauss (captain, Vodacom Bulls) 61 caps, 30 points
31. Warren Whiteley (Emirates Lions) 10 caps, 15 points



117 Comments

  • I had a feeling there wouldnt be many changes. The inclusions do suggest that there will be at change at 10 and 15 though. Hopefully sanity prevails regarding Lambie

  • Comment 1, posted at 21.09.16 15:53:34 by SheldonK Reply
    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • Not sure why Willie was dropped in 1st place… Anyway..we have more problems up front

  • Comment 2, posted at 21.09.16 15:53:43 by ebenp Reply
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  • Sharks will not say no thank you to Lourens. The scrum has been wobbly without him.

  • Comment 3, posted at 21.09.16 16:04:14 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • Geez you would have thought this oke would have learned from his mistakes!

  • Comment 4, posted at 21.09.16 16:05:48 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • Come on AC give us this team for the Oz game: 1. Kitshoff 2. Strauss 3. Koch 4. Mostert 5. PSDT 6. Kriel 7. Louw 8. Whiteley 9. De Klerk 10. Goosen 11. Habana 12. De Jongh 13. Kriel 14. Mapoe 15. LeRoux
    Bench: Beast, Marx,Redelinghuis, Etzebeth, Alberts, Hougaard, Jantjies, De Allende

    Think thats reasonably within his grasp?

  • Comment 5, posted at 21.09.16 16:06:44 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 5) : I highly doubt it, this guy is more stubborn than Mallet and HM put together.

  • Comment 6, posted at 21.09.16 16:10:53 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 6) : I also dont foresee any significant changes changes to be honest. At most 2 or 3- think he will revert to a 4/3 bench split

  • Comment 7, posted at 21.09.16 16:13:16 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • Laughed at the language in ”been called up to “ascertain his readiness and confidence for international rugby ”
    Man the moment Pat’s head hit the ground he was more ready and confident for international rugby than Jaantjies has ever been.

  • Comment 8, posted at 21.09.16 16:22:17 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 8) : :lol: :lol: :lol:

  • Comment 9, posted at 21.09.16 16:29:42 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • Of course Lambie needs to play another game fro the Cells C Sharks, the guy is good but hell he has spent a few minutes on the field in the last couple of months.

  • Comment 10, posted at 21.09.16 16:47:43 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 10) : Dan Carter did that for years,went straight into an international fro injury.
    I don’t think confidence or big match temperament , would be Pat’s problem,I just worry about his ability to survive another head injury

  • Comment 11, posted at 21.09.16 17:00:23 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 11) : I’m with you on that. He’s come back from injuries straight into a team in the past and slotted in like he was never gone but I’m also just concerned about him suffering another head injury.

  • Comment 12, posted at 21.09.16 17:39:29 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • Seems like a good move to me to keep Pat close to team. Esp if AC sees him as a core Springbok player. He is also one of 6 in the squad who have 50+ caps and a proven temperament.

    Can’t see him been thrust into the side just yet. Ideally I think another Cc game -> squad -> bench -> Start -> Vice capt -> captain. :)

  • Comment 13, posted at 21.09.16 17:45:17 by gregkaos Reply
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  • @gregkaos (Comment 13) : :lol: I like that.

  • Comment 14, posted at 21.09.16 17:46:40 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Quintin (Comment 14) : actually…. Post Strauss who’ve we got that ticks the following boxes?
    Heaps of experience.
    Good temperament.
    BMT
    Leadership qualities

    I count Habana. Flow. Pat. That’s it!
    Maybe Thor when fit.

  • Comment 15, posted at 21.09.16 17:58:31 by gregkaos Reply
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  • @gregkaos (Comment 15) : Yeah that’s a valid point and Habana and Flow are 4th owner models where Lambie’s got milage to spare in terms of age. Let’s hope he plays like we know he can after just 20mins though you are right he should probably play another CC game before joining the Bok squad but that’s too late now, I think AC will play him off the bench.

  • Comment 16, posted at 21.09.16 18:20:07 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • you guys sound like you dont remember who the Fly half was when the bokke lost to Japan …

  • Comment 17, posted at 21.09.16 18:24:50 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 17) :It was Schalk Burger wasn’t it?

  • Comment 18, posted at 21.09.16 18:36:35 by Quintin Reply

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  • @Zibbie (Comment 17) : Of course we were leading when he was substituted for that other chap… :mrgreen:

  • Comment 19, posted at 21.09.16 18:42:15 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 19) : Yeah we lost it right there but not because of Lambie going off though, or was it? :lol: HM subbed Beast, Jannie and Bismark in the 54th minute with Coenie , Nyakane and Strauss and then he also subbed Lambie, PSdT and Pienaar with Pollard, Kolisi and FdP in the 58th minute, stupid to make so many changes at once, he was cleary panicking. We also conceded 12 penalties and 11 turnovers, that is terrible.

  • Comment 20, posted at 21.09.16 18:55:29 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Zibbie (Comment 17) : drop every member who played in that game?

    I do remember a crazy pressure penalty kick that clinched a rare win against the ABs

  • Comment 21, posted at 21.09.16 18:55:52 by gregkaos Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 19) : :lol: how you doing ? you have been quite lately ? Eish i dont know . i remember thinking shees the way Lambie is going this will give HM an excuse to start Pollard every game …

    @gregkaos (Comment 21) : most of them have thankfully retired now …

    Im going to say we won that game because of all the tries Pollard the winder kid created :lol: :lol:

  • Comment 22, posted at 21.09.16 19:03:27 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @gregkaos (Comment 13) : Let’s just forget for the moment that in real terms Pat only has about 20 real caps…. the other 30 were 10 min cameos off the bench. Just saying :evil:

  • Comment 23, posted at 21.09.16 19:37:46 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @pastorshark (Comment 19) : Easy to forget when you have goggles on….

  • Comment 24, posted at 21.09.16 20:42:19 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • To me it’s a very desparate move to include a guy who has had 20 minutes in 15 weeks into a team that is more than just shaky. To try and prove a point in a wooden spoon contest. Goosen has been in the team longer. Move him to 10 Pat will only be ready end if year. AC just setting up for failure. Shamefull really.

  • Comment 25, posted at 21.09.16 20:46:59 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @KingCheetah (Comment 23) : not nice boet but very true!!!

  • Comment 26, posted at 21.09.16 21:49:10 by JD Reply
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  • I’m really sad for Adriaanse to not be included in the squad! but really glad he’s back at the Sharks!!! Thomas at 1 Adriaanse at 3 and Meyer on the bench seems a lot better!!!

  • Comment 27, posted at 21.09.16 21:51:02 by JD Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 22) : :grin: Yeah…only pulling your leg…
    I have been crazy busy for 2-3 months! Need to slow down a bit, but don’t seem to be getting that right…unfortunately in my job there are just so many uncontrollables. I have a much-needed week’s leave with the family next week. As soon as things slow down I’ll be back to normal on here.
    Other than all that I am doing very well. Somebody gave me three tickets to the All Blacks test, so taking my boys to that! Much excitement among the men in our household about that!

  • Comment 28, posted at 21.09.16 22:33:51 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 25) : To be fair, he hasn’t been included in the team yet. AC has said they want to evaluate him and decide whether he needs to play another Currie Cup game before he can get back to international action…

  • Comment 29, posted at 21.09.16 22:37:26 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 27) : Definitely…

  • Comment 30, posted at 21.09.16 22:38:33 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 28) : ah the AB test will be awesome ! hope you guys enjoy !

    i feel if the boks could pick Dan Catrter at 10 and the rest of the team stays the same , the boks wont be winning any more games . so I hope Elton gets dropped so the Boks can focus on what really the issue is . What that is , i am not sure

  • Comment 31, posted at 21.09.16 22:55:39 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 31) : I am beginning to agree with you. All AC ‘s moves of late look without a plan. It can’t be all the players in the country. We may have been better off making John Mitchel the coach.

  • Comment 32, posted at 22.09.16 06:54:38 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @JD (Comment 26) : Justly little stir. It’s good to see Lambie back on the pitch, but hope sanity prevails. The same thing was done to Goosen, and he has never really recovered his mojo.

  • Comment 33, posted at 22.09.16 06:57:41 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • With all the debate surrounding Elton’s suitability (or lack thereof) for test rugby, I’m surprised that no one has pointed out that the Lions, where Elton thrives, employ a very specific pattern of play for 9/10/12/13, which the Boks do not emulate. Simply put, it’s like this; the Lions play Faf at 9 (white guy, no tattoos), Elton at 10 (coloured guy, tons of tattoos), Rohan at 12 (white, tattoo-less) and Lionel at 13 (coloured, tattooed). Clearly the yin-yang nature of these pairings unlocks Elton’s mojo; it also explains why Ross Cronje can slot in seamlessly and 9, and why Marnitz Bosshoff is hardly ever entrusted with the 10 jersey.

    In case you don’t subscribe to this theory, I’d like to point out that history is littered with examples where the power of polar opposites have been used to unleash the magic; from (the masculine) Samson with his (feminine) long hair, through Laurel and Hardy, Lennon/McCartney, Bill Gates/Paul Allen, etc. etc. Admittedly, sometimes the juju is too strong for the entitie(s) to contain (e.g. Brangelina), but that does not make it any less real.

    So that’s my theory for the day, and I’m sticking to it (unless, of course, a person wants to ponder whether it’s not just a case of Alistair and Elton going together like bacon sandwiches and Mecca).

  • Comment 34, posted at 22.09.16 07:45:25 by Culling Song Reply
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  • @Culling Song (Comment 34) : That seems perfectly reasonable to me! :lol: :lol:

  • Comment 35, posted at 22.09.16 07:47:43 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 35) : Of course it does, as will any conclusion reached through the rigorous application of logic and common sense…

  • Comment 36, posted at 22.09.16 07:55:34 by Culling Song Reply
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  • Just like to share this interesting piece from Rugby 365
    ”the Boks of 2016′s defensive woes were exposed in Saturday’s 41-13 defeat to the world champions who outscored them by six tries to one. The Boks’ defence coach Chean Roux is a novice in this role having previously assisted the team as part of SARU’s Mobi Unit on refereeing and technical aspects. His inexperience in his new role has been evident with the Boks at sixes and sevens on defence during their last few Tests and they have already conceded 12 tries in the Rugby Championship.”
    How can wee anything but shite with a novice turkey like this in such am important position.

  • Comment 37, posted at 22.09.16 07:58:47 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 37) : big problem. Bigger than that is the fact that he’s there because there is simply no one else who’s able or willing.

  • Comment 38, posted at 22.09.16 08:19:28 by gregkaos Reply
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  • Some pretty hard truths said about the Boks and their 9 and 10 on the NZ Breakdown show last night. Interesting to hear their opinions on matters…and some are quite different to our public opinion.

  • Comment 39, posted at 22.09.16 08:26:54 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @gregkaos (Comment 38) : I think he’s there like Proudfoot because AC chose him.

  • Comment 40, posted at 22.09.16 08:27:46 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 37) : much like our season last year with Horak….

  • Comment 41, posted at 22.09.16 08:49:44 by Kabouter Reply

    KabouterCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 34) : The science does check out. To quote the good book: “Can anything good come from Bronkhorstspruit?”. I believe we now, finally, have our answer.

  • Comment 42, posted at 22.09.16 08:51:33 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 42) : On the wings they got the science also wrong. At least Hougie has tattoos but he is wrong shade and same for Habanna no tats but wrong shade.

    come now AC…

    This might also explain why the Lions more erratic in CC – they have a white dude with no tats playing 10….

  • Comment 43, posted at 22.09.16 08:58:35 by Kabouter Reply

    KabouterCurrie Cup player
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 42) : Good things do come from the Bronks, much like diamonds do come from rotting organic matter. It’s just exceedingly rare

  • Comment 44, posted at 22.09.16 09:06:38 by Culling Song Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 39) : In last weeks episode ,Ian Jones showed a Video of how we attack now vs in 2013. HE said that what we do now ,is not how the springboks play,saying that he disagrees with all of the critisism about changing bok rugby he said”Bok rugby is about big men with Physical intimidation “”The springboks are not the Allblacks ,theyre not England ,they are the springboks “Besides, it was interesting listening to pundit and 79-cap former All Black lock Ian Jones, speaking on the New Zealand rugby chat show The Breakdown this week, adding his voice to the widespread theory that the Boks are “confused” about the direction they seek to go in.

    And while you might say you’d expect it of a tight forward, he implied that the Boks are in danger of abandoning too many of their traditional attributes – like “physical intensity and a strong kick chase” – in their slow steps toward a more up-tempo, ball-in-hand game.

    Jones also slightly pooh-poohed the notion that a fashionable “Lions way” is the correct medicine for the Springboks: “There is time and space in Super Rugby which you simply don’t get at Test level … so I disagree that they have to move on a lot (from strengths that have previously served them best).”

  • Comment 45, posted at 22.09.16 09:22:12 by schrodingers cat Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 39) : What did they say?

  • Comment 46, posted at 22.09.16 09:23:04 by Quintin Reply

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  • @schrodingers cat (Comment 45) : He differs from what our rugby minds think in our studio,maybe hes scared that if we play like AB we wil beat them?

  • Comment 47, posted at 22.09.16 09:25:04 by schrodingers cat Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 11) : I hear you, but look who Lambie will be having infront of, next to, alongside and behind him and contrast that to what DC had, but regardless of that and regardless of how good Lambkins is an hour of good hard rugby can only do him good going into 2 massive games.

  • Comment 48, posted at 22.09.16 09:29:14 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @schrodingers cat (Comment 45) : Agreed. Very straight forward and blunt and intelligent comments from them on that show. Liek you said they cant believe the Boks are trying to reinvent the wheel and have chucked out alll the good things the Boks used to do. @Quintin (Comment 46) : Basically they were saying the inexperience, lack of composure and small size of our 9 and 10 is very evident in the Bok performances. They said that they both good players but have had only 1 in form season and are now thrust into International rugby. Said they should have both learnt international rugby from the bench before given starting roles although they see how injuries have played a role. Interestingly they reckon the Boks should go with Pienaar and Pollard as the 9 and 10, they rate Pollard highly.

  • Comment 49, posted at 22.09.16 09:30:44 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 49) : Thats not a good thing to say on this site,you know theres lambie and then theres ……lambie and then….. ya lambie….lets be honest most of us on this site rate lambie above pollard ….wonder why those kiwis differ

  • Comment 50, posted at 22.09.16 09:35:54 by schrodingers cat Reply

    schrodingers catCurrie Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 49) : I agree, Pollard is definitely the way forward.

  • Comment 51, posted at 22.09.16 09:38:58 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @schrodingers cat (Comment 50) : Yip, http://www.lambieworld.co.za

  • Comment 52, posted at 22.09.16 09:39:51 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 48) : Good point,imagine if he had the brash arrogant confidence of Frans Steyn next to him at 12 instead of the neurotic de Allende or the incompetent de Jonge.

  • Comment 53, posted at 22.09.16 09:39:53 by The hound Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 51) : Lambie worshippers trigerd*

  • Comment 54, posted at 22.09.16 09:39:58 by schrodingers cat Reply

    schrodingers catCurrie Cup player
     
  • @schrodingers cat (Comment 50) : Hey i was just repeating what was said. As i said some interesting thoughts and comments from the best rugby nation in the world. Personally i like both Pollard and Lambie and would love them both on the field…Frans Steyn too

  • Comment 55, posted at 22.09.16 09:42:31 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 53) : SArugby know how to f…up a good rugby player when they get one. The list is very long of players who exceed “normality”, who never got managed correctly to reach their full potential.

  • Comment 56, posted at 22.09.16 09:43:01 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 55) : ja man i must say i would love if frans would join us again ,doesnt he mis his farm and the bushveld ? Like you said lambie and pollard are equally good and i agree they shoukd get rotated

  • Comment 57, posted at 22.09.16 09:45:36 by schrodingers cat Reply

    schrodingers catCurrie Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 49) : Perhaps this just points out that continuity and succession planning is just not something SA does well if at all. The All Blacks usually expose their youngsters (e.g Barrett, Cole) slowly into the team, whereas the Boks will chuck the flavour of the month straight into the starting team and then throw them away when they fail.

    Although to be fair AC has lost both Pat and Pollard this year, and it seemed his intention was to always start with Lambie and use Elton from the bench.

    I am not convinced about Pienaar though – I would stick with De Klerk, but make him concentrate purely on getting the ball to a first receiver (being 10, 12, or preferably a loose forward) as calmly and cleanly as possible for starters. And if there is no decision maker available to pass to, rather slow down the play.

  • Comment 58, posted at 22.09.16 09:47:59 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @schrodingers cat (Comment 57) : Not rotated, Lambie as backup, to kick the final kick ;)

  • Comment 59, posted at 22.09.16 09:48:11 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 55) : The thing about Frans Steyn maybe because he lacked the intellect ,but he never gave the AB ‘s any respect,so many of this current Bok team are in total awe of the Blacks its like the under14′s playing the firstXV
    Where are the Kobus Wiese’s,Mark Andrews,guys who used to advance on that Hakka
    Ethebeth is a case in point he disappears completely against the Blacks,

  • Comment 60, posted at 22.09.16 09:48:23 by The hound Reply
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  • @schrodingers cat (Comment 45) : mate the SR franchises and the national team all play the same with a slight variation,they all play with the same intensity wether it be group stage, round robben stage or a final exactly the same,rugby has moved on from kick and chase,as for physicality, how against players as big if not bigger abd way more conditioned, so how then? See this is just one of the many problems facing Bok rugby, outdated game with a coach who has no clue of the modern game and modern doesnt just mean all out helter skelter

  • Comment 61, posted at 22.09.16 09:48:36 by benji Reply
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  • @schrodingers cat (Comment 57) : I wouldnt even rotate them (although i could live with both in the 23). Id want them both on the field, with Frans Steyn and Ruan Combrinck. Think those are the best all round backs we have.

  • Comment 62, posted at 22.09.16 09:48:37 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 55) : Since we seem to lack a decent 12 in the current setup, I would also like to see Lambie 10 and Pollard at 12 in the same team.

  • Comment 63, posted at 22.09.16 09:51:33 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 58) : Interesting point they made about the 9 is that they said SA is used to an aggressive and robust 9 in the form of Joost, DuPreez, Pienaar but Faf is a very different player.
    Then they also point to how guys like Barret, Coles etc had to bide their time on the bench game after game until finally getting a start and having the experience of X number of caps behind them they now producing the goods as the know what international rugby is about. Boks have missed the trick big time specifically regarding the bench composition and continuity

  • Comment 64, posted at 22.09.16 09:52:57 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 58) : De Klerk, the new Dave von Hoesslin.

  • Comment 65, posted at 22.09.16 09:53:22 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 60) : i dont think its a lack of intellect but rather a stubborn pride and saying F*ck You bring it on. We have softies in the current team

  • Comment 66, posted at 22.09.16 09:54:18 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 64) : I would not ever describe Pienaar as aggressive. :roll: Personally I always thought that was what he lacked to be a great player.

  • Comment 67, posted at 22.09.16 09:57:34 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 65) : I am still a big fan of Faf, but he just needs to calm down. He seems to be trying to over-compensate for other weaknesses in the team around him, and is just ending up playing like a headless chicken.

  • Comment 68, posted at 22.09.16 10:00:42 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 67) : perhaps aggressive is the wrong word. But its amazing how peoples perception of a player is based on a single incident or an assumption or even better still someone else’s perception. Pienaar is a bladdy good scrumhalf…think he could have been even better if he stayed in SA

  • Comment 69, posted at 22.09.16 10:02:52 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 68) : Agreed. But had Faf played 10 tests off the bench last year then he would have been a lot more composed during his starting chance. As you say…good player…but needs composure and do the basics well.

  • Comment 70, posted at 22.09.16 10:04:24 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 60) : am I the only one who just doesn’t “get” this Etzebeth myth?

  • Comment 71, posted at 22.09.16 10:15:22 by robdylan Reply
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  • @benji (Comment 61) : I never said it m8 those were the words from ian jones ,he obviaslly thinks the boks can stil do wel with there outdated game plan

  • Comment 72, posted at 22.09.16 10:15:29 by schrodingers cat Reply

    schrodingers catCurrie Cup player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 71) : ja he is being a pussy lately we should get those locks from montpellier to spark up some competition at lock

  • Comment 73, posted at 22.09.16 10:16:55 by schrodingers cat Reply

    schrodingers catCurrie Cup player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 71) : he doesnt make any meters in his carrys and thats what were missing a forward that can put us on the front foot

  • Comment 74, posted at 22.09.16 10:18:08 by schrodingers cat Reply

    schrodingers catCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 34) : bacon sandwiches and Mecca :lol: Comment of the month…

  • Comment 75, posted at 22.09.16 10:19:37 by Hulk Reply

    HulkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 71) : The biggest problem with that myth is that the guy who bought it swallowed it and believes it is Etzebeth himself.
    Rule no one of fight club, don’t believe your own P.R.

  • Comment 76, posted at 22.09.16 10:30:12 by The hound Reply
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  • My idea of a Bok bench that needs to be persevered with: Dylan Smith, Malcom Marx, Julian Redelinghuis, RG Snyman, Jaco Kriel, Cobus Reinach, Elton Jantjies, Rohan Janse Van Rensburg

  • Comment 77, posted at 22.09.16 10:33:32 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @benji (Comment 61) : tel me how many countries can have a pack this big:
    1-thomas du toit(136 kg)
    2-bismarck(114kg)
    3-marcel van der merwe(130kg)
    4-Lood de jager(130 kg)
    5-paul willemse(135 kg)
    6-willem alberts(120 kg)
    7-Jauqes du plesdis(120 kg)
    8-duane vermeulen(116 kg)
    PACK WEIGHT (1001 kg)

    I agree with you with our current side we dont have size to play a “outdayted “gane plan , but look at how different we look if we pick these players.

  • Comment 78, posted at 22.09.16 10:39:07 by schrodingers cat Reply

    schrodingers catCurrie Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 49) : @Bokhoring (Comment 58) : That argument regarding them just having one proper SR season is, in my opinion, not valid. Both FS and JPP were 19 when they played not only international rugby, but in a WC as well,and won it! They also had at most(if they played SR when 18 already?) 2 seasons of SR and they were much younger. You could argue and say that they are ‘late bloomers’ but they are 24(Faf) and 26(Elton) already. The only other reasons left as to why they aren’t performing well are that they are either not up to playing at that level, or they are being coached out of their talents. I’m leaning towards the latter but might it be a little bit of both. Just my opinion.

  • Comment 79, posted at 22.09.16 10:39:17 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 77) : I wont lie, at the moment, I am even missing Cobus Reinach.

  • Comment 80, posted at 22.09.16 10:41:58 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 80) : He is better off the bench than a starting 9 for the Boks, just my opinion. But same as Faf- if he plays a good few concurrent tests off the bench he wll have the composure to start when required.

  • Comment 81, posted at 22.09.16 10:46:03 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 80) : Shit you’ll be searching fondly down memory lane for SP Marais just now

  • Comment 82, posted at 22.09.16 10:46:10 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 82) : :lol:

  • Comment 83, posted at 22.09.16 10:46:52 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Quintin (Comment 79) : You do make a point an yes there are exceptions. But exceptions dont prove the theory and rule. So yes there will always be exceptional players that follow their own path but doesnt mean they all should. Curwin Bosch is a year out of school starting in the CC- does that mean every 19yr old straight out of school should be starting? Nope

  • Comment 84, posted at 22.09.16 10:50:47 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 82) : Speaking of…is he still at the Bulls?

  • Comment 85, posted at 22.09.16 10:51:44 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 51) : we wont be able to sit around the same braai … ever

  • Comment 86, posted at 22.09.16 10:52:32 by Zibbie Reply
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  • For me the problem is simple,the Boks don’t believe they are invincible any more,the day we lost to the Japanese was a watershed day for us.
    It was a huge turning point in our rugby.
    When the guys pulled on that jersey they used to believed that they were the rightful champions of the world.
    Contrast that to now when nobody believes we can beat Argentina.
    Apart from the AB’s and AUS,England and France will probably give us a good kicking as well.
    More than anything else the Boks need a kop doctor to teach them how to believe that they are the best in the world.
    That and a captain who they can follow into battle and die for.

  • Comment 87, posted at 22.09.16 10:57:22 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 85) : think he left . back at the Kings or something . not sure

  • Comment 88, posted at 22.09.16 10:57:53 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @schrodingers cat (Comment 78) : Lood weighs 120 if I am not mistaken. Used to weigh 125kg when he started at the Cheetahs, but he trimmed down. Thomas not the same player as when he was 125 kg!

  • Comment 89, posted at 22.09.16 11:01:43 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @Zibbie (Comment 88) : Ah ok, he put in some good performances for the Bulls but then just vanished.

  • Comment 90, posted at 22.09.16 11:03:08 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 49) : Ironically this is exactly what Pollard did not do .

    Why i will never like him , no matter what . him and Jesse Kriel

  • Comment 91, posted at 22.09.16 11:04:46 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 91) : Why dont you like him and Kriel? Is it rugby ability or something else? Ps. i have nothing against people not liking certain players as we all like different things in players

  • Comment 92, posted at 22.09.16 11:09:41 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @KingCheetah (Comment 89) : becuase hes playing out of position (thomas),besides that im not saying those players should be picked i was just replying to benji’s comment about other countries mayching our size,i disagree with that though , i think we are the only country with the abbility to play a athletic/physical pack that can weigh a 1000 kg’s

  • Comment 93, posted at 22.09.16 11:13:14 by schrodingers cat Reply

    schrodingers catCurrie Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 92) : Pollard got escalated into the team without having a proper super rugby season . he has had maybe one good game against the ABs . last year against the argies in Durbs he got booed off the field .

    Yet he is seen as a rugby God ? nah i dont buy into that . he needs to convince me on the field

    Kriel gets played out of position without any prior super rugby experience . Even tough his defense is up to shite . He scores one good try against the ABs in a game we loose . Also not convinced yet he gets praised like some sort of hero …

  • Comment 94, posted at 22.09.16 11:16:26 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 71) : Not the only one, the myth has been dispelled. People got all teary eyed when Etsebeth smashed Bismarck (a lot smaller than him actually) in the opening minutes of that semi final in Cpt. Bismarck just got stronger as the game went, Etsebeth spent a lot of the second half on his knees….and he wasn’t praying.

  • Comment 95, posted at 22.09.16 11:21:55 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 94) : Hmm interesting…and fair enough. I personally think they are both very good players though. But thats what makes rugby interesting…people and coaches especially have different opinions on players and how the game can be played. Doesnt mean joe public’s opinion is 100% right or 100% wrong.

  • Comment 96, posted at 22.09.16 11:24:00 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Quintin (Comment 79) : Frans was 20 and JP 21 at the World Cup (but close enough to 19) and both played for the Boks in 2006 already. Both are special players with unusual physical attributes to boot. Not all players can be like that, and I think SA loses a lot of potentially great players by simply not introducing them gradually at this level.

  • Comment 97, posted at 22.09.16 11:26:39 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 84) : Yeah my point was more that I think the coaching has a lot to do with how the players make the step up to international level as well as the players ability to do so. I only mentioned their age to show that Frans and JP also only had one season of SR, but they were able to make the step up. To me, if you can’t make that step up after 7 international games by the age of 26 along with poor coaching not helping with that transition, it’s unlikely to happen in the future. Again, unlikely, not saying it’s impossible, just saying you need the right mindset and environment, which isn’t there at the moment. I do hope we get it right soon though as we have to be able to use all our talent no matter what game plans or set ups we are using. It’s a tough spot to be in for the players and the coaches at the moment. How they handle it will tell us a lot about whats lying ahead.

  • Comment 98, posted at 22.09.16 11:26:51 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @schrodingers cat (Comment 78) : mate I know it was not your statement I was just highliting in my view two of the plenty problems Bok rugby has,further weight alone is not good enough anymore,big supremely conditioned units is how the modern game is,blubber as weight used to work a long time ago

  • Comment 99, posted at 22.09.16 11:30:22 by benji Reply
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  • @Quintin (Comment 98) : Quade Cooper and Elton are cut from the same cloth,they only have two modes,superb and dreadful.
    Superb when the confidence is up,dreadful when its down.
    If you pick these players your job as a coach is to work on the confidence,something AC is incapable of.He knows Elton has failed with him before he should never have anything to do with him again.

  • Comment 100, posted at 22.09.16 11:33:17 by The hound Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 97) : or at that age anymore

  • Comment 101, posted at 22.09.16 11:33:31 by benji Reply
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  • @benji (Comment 99) : disagree becuase i think you have to count in there height as well for there height they are not “blubber” maybe one or two of them but the rest are big units in height and size ,Of that pack only the two props are “blubber” surely you dont see bismarck,jauques,willem and duane as blubber ,

  • Comment 102, posted at 22.09.16 11:37:56 by schrodingers cat Reply

    schrodingers catCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 97) : Yes they both played international at the age of 19. But I agree with you, most players will benefit from being introduced gradually into a new set up and although I think the coaching has a lot to do with how quickly a player makes that step up, the players skill and mindset are also big factors.

  • Comment 103, posted at 22.09.16 11:42:15 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Quintin (Comment 79) : my view is that you dont take a team to SR finals then all of a sudden the next day you dont know how to play rugby,i think thete are ither issues and for me its the quality around these two who firstly cant play the modern game, secondly come from teams who eithet did not make SR play off or got a hiding from hell,or are played on smoke blowing merit,now for me thats the core problem hete,mismatched playing styles,one from players playing in a team that stepped up and the othets just rank average

  • Comment 104, posted at 22.09.16 11:43:11 by benji Reply
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  • @schrodingers cat (Comment 102) : on those four I agree,why,cause they play in France and those French clubs take no nonsense, they pay well but expect the player to be in supreme condition, just look at Bismark now at Montpellier, I cant remember when last he was in such condition,probably never before,he is now simply a machine, same goes for Jauques

  • Comment 105, posted at 22.09.16 11:52:15 by benji Reply
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  • @benji (Comment 105) : yes,but then Im not sure how theyre gonna tell Nadolo how to lose hes “blubber” lol

  • Comment 106, posted at 22.09.16 11:54:31 by schrodingers cat Reply

    schrodingers catCurrie Cup player
     
  • @benji (Comment 105) : now what Bok team with those two in the side,which is another problem in Bok rugby,the best players are not being chosen

  • Comment 107, posted at 22.09.16 11:55:06 by benji Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 100) : Yes the thing is, in my opinion it’s not just about the confidence but how the confidence and how the rest of the team performs are linked to each other. If everyone is playing bad it’s hard to get that confidence, and like you said, Elton is superb when his confidence is up, but that’s the thing about international rugby. There’s always going to be tight, stressful matches when things aren’t going your way and you have to be able to perform your regular duties in those situations as well.

  • Comment 108, posted at 22.09.16 11:55:38 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @The hound (Comment 60) : @robdylan (Comment 71) : @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 95) : Count me in too. I just don’t get the deification of ItsyBetsy. If his performance levels matched the scowls he dishes out on the field, well, then he’d be Bakkies Botha, Martin Johnson and Mark Andrews rolled into one. But sadly, it all stops at the dirty looks.

  • Comment 109, posted at 22.09.16 12:00:58 by Culling Song Reply
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  • @Quintin (Comment 108) : That is what made players like Dan Carter andJohnny Wilkinson such special players they were always confident of their own capabilities, especially when the team was on the back foot
    Pat and Beaudon Barritt are the same,Elton ,Cooper,Goosen,Ciprianni, are not.

  • Comment 110, posted at 22.09.16 12:01:39 by The hound Reply
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  • @benji (Comment 104) : @benji (Comment 104) : That’s a valid point but what are you suggesting we do about it? I agree that we are being held back by some players who shouldn’t even be in the squad but surely we can’t drop the rest of the team to accommodate two players because they have different playing styles? What about games that are tighter, like they usually are at international level ? Who should accommodate who’s playing style ? I think a lot of people in this country are currently obsessed with the whole ‘running rugby’ thing. We can’t just go rogue and run everything from anywhere. We can run into open spaces sure, but there has to be some physicality and tactics too, it’s not touch rugby.

  • Comment 111, posted at 22.09.16 12:14:56 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Quintin (Comment 111) : In this country we are far too obsessed with playing style. We should be focusing on players skills and decision making in the situation they are faced. Style will take care of itself.

  • Comment 112, posted at 22.09.16 12:19:56 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 112) : Exactly, it’s about reading the situation you are in, not trying to enforce a specific style on a match that doesn’t warrant it.

  • Comment 113, posted at 22.09.16 12:28:11 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @The hound (Comment 110) : That’s right, that’s what made them special and that’s what we need at the moment.

  • Comment 114, posted at 22.09.16 12:31:37 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Quintin (Comment 113) : 100%

  • Comment 115, posted at 22.09.16 12:32:32 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Quintin (Comment 111) : @SheldonK (Comment 112) : agree and the fix is not going to be wuick its going to take a long time as you hsve ti change a lot of old school rugby culture and thinking as well

  • Comment 116, posted at 22.09.16 13:25:47 by benji Reply
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  • @benji (Comment 116) : Um i agree and disagree to an extent. The fix is going to require coaches to allow players to make more decisions themselves and not dictate to them all the time. Players are going to have to be held accountable to coaches etc for the decisions they make on the field though, they need to own those decisions. Those 2 things are possible but tricky. Then lastly is the skills of the players…if i look at the players coming through the schools etc these guys are incredibly skillful BUT they dont have the decision making required to know what skill to use when. So for me the thing that will take the longest to fix is the mental toughness of SA players.

  • Comment 117, posted at 22.09.16 13:31:14 by SheldonK Reply

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