Richard Ferguson

New Bok coaches lined up


Written by Richard Ferguson (Richard Ferguson)

Posted in :End of Year Tour, Original Content, Springboks on 19 Oct 2016 at 08:25
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This is a story that I must have missed seeing as it was reported a few days ago, but here we go. Chean Roux has been relieved of his duties as Springbok defence coach.

Roux was appointed as Defence coach for the 2016 year but will not have to go with the team to Europe next month. Roux has been released to continue whatever he was doing before getting the job.

Talk in the mainstream media is that his successor is likely to be either JP Ferreira from the Lions or the Bulls’ Pine Pienaar.

Further changes are also likely with talk of a new attacking coach coming on board. Again the Lions will be raided as they are looking to Swys de Bruin or Cheetahs head coach Franco Smith. According to reports, these appointments will be made upon completion of the Currie Cup Final on Saturday.



110 Comments

  • Thanks Rich, all is good and well to change the assistant coaches – SA Rugby’s biggest problems lies in the politics or the involvement of politics – until that is subdued, I cant see us going forward heading into the right direction…my opinion.

  • Comment 1, posted at 19.10.16 08:52:13 by DuToit04 Reply
    DuToit04Currie Cup player
     
  • it just saddens me to see The Springboks at this low level – and being a South African and rugby fanatic it is really difficult to accept the results, to accept the All Blacks are 40+ points in a game better than us?!

    just for interest sake – I wonder if the general view of the public (in terms of possible solutions) are ever considered/looked at?

  • Comment 2, posted at 19.10.16 08:59:12 by DuToit04 Reply
    DuToit04Currie Cup player
     
  • Also talks of Brendan Venter being roped in?

  • Comment 3, posted at 19.10.16 09:01:10 by Another Nick Reply
    Another NickSuper Rugby player
     
  • I have a different take on this. I dont want to see all these coaches part of the Bok setup and only working with the players then. I believe for the interests of SA rugby to move forward we need good coaches at he Unions working with the players day in and day out and thus providing the Boks with better equipped players. The Boks should only have a Head Coach with a Forwards Coach Assistant and Backline Assistant. Then there needs to be a 4 man specialist coach unit that only joins the Boks when they are in camp but for the remainder of the time they mainly work with their own union. The 4 man specialist coaching team would consist of a Defense Coach, Attack Coach, Mental Coach and Conditioning Coach. Thats just my view…not that it will ever happen

  • Comment 4, posted at 19.10.16 09:07:48 by SheldonK Reply
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  • @DuToit04 (Comment 2) :

    What would the public know about rugby?

    No, sarcasm aside, I do not think public solutions are ever sought, it is more a scurried panic to try get things right before the public realises anything is wrong…

  • Comment 5, posted at 19.10.16 09:08:51 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • You hit the nail on the head Rich.

  • Comment 6, posted at 19.10.16 09:12:16 by StevieS Reply
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  • I think Chean Roux must be the most relieved man in SA right now.

  • Comment 7, posted at 19.10.16 09:13:19 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 4) :

    That is not a bad idea. All these guys are employed by SA Rugby, but only actually WORK for the few weekends that the Boks play.

    Get these guys in at the Unions and rotate, so that during the year, each player, whether in the Bok setup or not, gains this knowledge and is in the know when he is eventually called up. The more the players know and the better they are equipped, the better for the country.

  • Comment 8, posted at 19.10.16 09:13:30 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 8) : Yeh pretty much. Yes we need good coaches involved with the Boks but it is vital that there are good coaches working day in and day out with the players at franchise level in order to better equip them for when the Boks come calling. There really is not a lot the Bok coaches can do in terms of coaching skills/conditioning etc when they get the players. Majority of the time is spent trying to get some form of cohesion going and understanding of the specific calls and ideas they want to implement. Would be such a waste having a good attack and defense coach twiddling his thumbs in the Boks setup when he could be adding real value at franchise level and then be a Bok consultant/specialist

  • Comment 9, posted at 19.10.16 09:18:34 by SheldonK Reply

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  • Who coaches the Cheetahs defence? Is it Franco Smith or do they employ a specialist coach in that position?

  • Comment 10, posted at 19.10.16 10:34:36 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Seems like we are going through a process of elimination which will eventually end at the head coach being sacked. Funny how other countries like all blacks, aus, England just fire the head coach have a competent man step in and choose his own coaching squad. Seems to save a lot of time. Just saying.

  • Comment 11, posted at 19.10.16 10:44:55 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 11) : Before Eddie Jones Eng picked a guy who had only coached school boy rugby pretty much, they also picked Andy Robinson who almost have a player revolt. Aus coaching track record before Cheika wasnt the best either. So i wouldnt exactly say they are the benchmarks for succession planning and good decisions. Only the All Blacks seem to be getting it right but they also have guys who are willing to put egos aside and become assistant coaches…how many top SA coaches would do that? Not many if any

  • Comment 12, posted at 19.10.16 10:51:22 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 11) :

    We have to stop our thinking that there is any logic in the way things are being done.

    There may be no logic whatsoever!

  • Comment 13, posted at 19.10.16 10:52:06 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 13) : Spelling mistake in your last sentence, Rich.

    There IS no logic whatsoever! :lol:

  • Comment 14, posted at 19.10.16 11:23:04 by ChrisS Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 13) : logic is a first world thing

  • Comment 15, posted at 19.10.16 11:47:41 by The hound Reply
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  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 8) : @SheldonK (Comment 9) : That’s a great idea and it would also help with the unified playing ‘style’ everyone wants to see from the unions and would greatly assist new/ fringe players to slot into the Bok setup seeing that they are familiar with the plan and the coaches. It will make replacing an experienced player with a new comer easier as well if someone get’s injured/loses form.

  • Comment 16, posted at 19.10.16 12:26:34 by Quintin Reply

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  • Only problem is seemingly they’re not doing anything about the forwards and for me that was one of the big problems during Rugby Championship!?

  • Comment 17, posted at 19.10.16 14:31:25 by JD Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 15) : The first world thing is boring and overrated?

  • Comment 18, posted at 19.10.16 14:32:51 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 11) : @Richard Ferguson (Comment 13) : @The hound (Comment 15) : @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 18) : this is Africa where the Lions and Cheetahs walk in the streets and here’s no place for silly things like common since and logic!!!

  • Comment 19, posted at 19.10.16 14:53:55 by JD Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 12) : The point is not about how good their planning is. The point is that they fire the non performing coach then fix the supporting staff or have the new guy fix it. Not fire the supporting staff one by one till the obvious conclusion is reached that the coach was simply not good enough.

  • Comment 20, posted at 19.10.16 14:55:21 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 20) : ok thats a fair enough point then. Just a top down approach as opposed to bottom up. AC is by no means perfect, far from it. But think he is also taking the blame for a lot of individual player shortcomings that arent attributed to him.

  • Comment 21, posted at 19.10.16 15:21:45 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 18) : So is logic,it sits there with predictable honesty and integrity,all very boring first world concepts.

  • Comment 22, posted at 19.10.16 15:24:08 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 21) : So where does the buck stop,AC not responsible for the coaching or the selection,so what is he responsible for.

  • Comment 23, posted at 19.10.16 15:26:45 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 22) : If logic, honesty and integrity are first world concepts what does that make the USA for at least the following 4 years.

  • Comment 24, posted at 19.10.16 15:29:39 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 23) : stuffing up any player that comes close to what New Zealand has to offer amongst other things

  • Comment 25, posted at 19.10.16 15:35:52 by benji Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 23) : talking absolute kak on TV

  • Comment 26, posted at 19.10.16 15:37:22 by benji Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 23) : and his real forte being absolutely clueless

  • Comment 27, posted at 19.10.16 15:38:00 by benji Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 24) : Definitely not boring or predictable

  • Comment 28, posted at 19.10.16 15:38:37 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 23) : oh I almost forgot and an astounding gameplan that allows 9 tries to be scored in a single game

  • Comment 29, posted at 19.10.16 15:42:04 by benji Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 23) : AC is responsible for team selection adn preparing players cant get away from that. As i said he is far from perfect. But cannot blame him for players individual errors during a game. In SA we love playing the blame game though so must as well just blame everything on the coach…it surely cannot be the perfect players. I believe both have let fans down and need to come to the party

  • Comment 30, posted at 19.10.16 15:47:10 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @benji (Comment 29) : Think you pretty much nailed it.
    He seriously pisses me off he is never responsible for anything it is always someone else’s fault.

  • Comment 31, posted at 19.10.16 15:48:07 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 30) : How many of the top 6 rugby nations in the world’s coach’s would survive a thrashing like we took,not one.

  • Comment 32, posted at 19.10.16 15:50:45 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 30) : but he chooses the players, he knows their non existent skill level the bulk are all his boys and the remainder Huge Mistakes reject Bullarina players

  • Comment 33, posted at 19.10.16 16:03:00 by benji Reply
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  • @benji (Comment 33) : I must have missed how a lot of the SA players shone during super rugby then? He picked Faf who played well during super rugby but then couldnt hit a barn door with his passes at test level. So yes blame AC for not picking the right combos- i do. But not individual errors

  • Comment 34, posted at 19.10.16 16:08:07 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 32) : Using that logic Johan Ackermann would no longer be the Lions coach then?

  • Comment 35, posted at 19.10.16 16:08:42 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 34) : faf is the closest SA has to AS or TJP just cause his skill set and general game are above those rank average around him he will get blamed its obvious,round peg square hole etc

  • Comment 36, posted at 19.10.16 16:14:09 by benji Reply
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  • @benji (Comment 36) : Faf is a good player but very erratic. prone to a lot of wayward passes…but guess thats part of his genius

  • Comment 37, posted at 19.10.16 16:16:42 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 37) : he didnt seem erratic while helping the Lions beat all those NZ teams in SR

  • Comment 38, posted at 19.10.16 16:27:40 by benji Reply
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  • @benji (Comment 38) : @SheldonK (Comment 37) : sorry to say but 8-9-10 (Whiteley, Faf & Elton) that worked so nice for Lions (until the final) did not perform for the Bokke. My personal opinion on why is that for 90% of the time the Lions forwards were equal or dominating their opposition. In the Bokke this did not happen and all of a sudden they had to play under pressure! Also they came in and everyone expected them to “spark” the Bokke into live! So basically the reason for their under performance is due to huge opposition pressure and the even bigger crushing pressure of expectation hanging over them!!!

  • Comment 39, posted at 19.10.16 16:51:09 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 39) : and being surrounded by rank average under skilled players

  • Comment 40, posted at 19.10.16 16:56:30 by benji Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 39) : JD how do you spark a player who plays for a team that didnt make the play offs or a team that got an abject hiding with the skill sets that match those tesults,how?

  • Comment 41, posted at 19.10.16 17:00:41 by benji Reply
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  • @benji (Comment 41) : in SR

  • Comment 42, posted at 19.10.16 17:01:39 by benji Reply
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  • Even if the players are not performing, actually especially then, it is the coaches responsibility to address it or select players who wants to perform. That is, after all, what a coach is there for isn’t it? AC won’t be able to hide his shortcomings any longer, sooner or later after all the deductions where made, it will only be him left.

  • Comment 43, posted at 19.10.16 17:37:31 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @benji (Comment 41) : I know that but that was the expectations of a lot of Bokke supporters (and AC) seeing as they did it for the Lions. What those people forgot is that they will be playing against international teams (and not provincial teams) and that the Bok pack would not be nearly as dominant/competitive as the Lions pack!

  • Comment 44, posted at 19.10.16 17:48:44 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 44) : Agreed. It’s a different game on international level, almost every error or lost opportunity will cost you the game.

  • Comment 45, posted at 19.10.16 19:20:00 by Quintin Reply

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  • @Quintin (Comment 45) : for sure especially against the top teams.

  • Comment 46, posted at 19.10.16 19:31:22 by JD Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 24) :

    Don’t dispare.
    If Sun Tzu and Machiavelli is to be believed, then a certain type of duplicity is exactly what is needed to be an effective political leader. Queen Elizabeth’s (the 1st) historians went into great detail about her tendency for deceit and dissembling.

    At least one of the candidates seems to fit this profile…..
    The other one is just a buffoon.

  • Comment 47, posted at 20.10.16 00:25:45 by fyndraai Reply
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  • But even buffoons have their purposes. This one may just rid the world of a certain type of Republican president for decades to come.

  • Comment 48, posted at 20.10.16 00:28:12 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 39) : Same can be said for Pollard and Hougaard combo. When he stopped performing every blamed his forwards. I don’t think this should be an excuse they should be able to perform even behind a pressured forwards pack.

  • Comment 49, posted at 20.10.16 06:25:55 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @benji (Comment 38) : And the games they got thrashed by the Canes, Highlanders, Crusaders…was that Ackermann’s fault? The players around him fault? Maybe it was Coetzee’s fault? It surely cannot be them paying poorly under pressure

  • Comment 50, posted at 20.10.16 08:13:31 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 50) : My argument exactly. the Lions game plan is full of faults. You need a more balanced approach to the game which includes all aspects of the game, the basics of the game (LAKSD) Lineouts, Attack, Kicking, Scrums, Defence (which I feel the Lions are not up to scratch with), work on those items and be better than your opposition at each of these and there is no way to lose a game.

  • Comment 51, posted at 20.10.16 08:30:13 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 50) : When a Springbok rugby team loses by 50 points,has 9 trys scored against them and
    doesn’t score one.To me and lots of people I know whose interest and money keep this sport alive,find that totally unacceptable.
    So many people I know are fast approaching the stage where they don’t give a shit about the Boks.
    Somebody needs to stand up and accept responsibility for this disgraceful performance.
    That somebody is Coetzee,he accepted the position and every picture you see of him he is covered in Bok insignia,probably has Bok underpants.
    He should never have accepted the position because it is patently obvious that he is incapable of doing the job.
    The longer he stays there there the worse it’s going to be.
    He refuse to accept any responsibility for the losses,but when we finally beat Italy,maybe,watch him take all the credit.

  • Comment 52, posted at 20.10.16 08:32:25 by The hound Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 51) : Yeh look dont get me wrong, the Lions players overall did well in Super rugby and were the best performing SA players. BUT they are by no means infallible and to suggest their mistakes and poor play at test level is because of any number of people but them is just laughable. So yes id still pick players like Whiteley, Faf and possibly even Jantjies…but they need to refine their game and step up when the game becomes close and physical. It also brings me back to my question i asked a while ago: how well did the Lions as a team and individuals play away from the Highveld this year?

  • Comment 53, posted at 20.10.16 08:35:45 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 52) : Do you not think AC calling for this SA rugby Indaba is him taking responsibility and trying to find a solution? We love to lay blame in this country and point out everything that is wrong but are not very good and suggesting viable solutions. AC was the best available candidate for the Bok position whether we chose to admit it or now. He needed to be appointed a lot earlier than he was and supplied with much better assistants. We also need to bear in mind that overall SA players were pretty woeful in Super rugby…did we really expect the Boks to then shine?

  • Comment 54, posted at 20.10.16 08:42:00 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 54) e: At the start of the Championship,Mallet and Botha came out very strongly and criticised the Pumas as not being deserving of a place at the table as they were the same team that had such a dismal super rugby tournament.They were also scathing about the Aussies who had been white washed by the Lions.As far as they were concerned it was a 2 way race between Ab’s and the Boks.
    Most South Africans agreed,most South Africans thought we had a good super rugby season.
    Most South Africans expected the Boks to shine.

  • Comment 55, posted at 20.10.16 09:04:14 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 54) : With all due respect, but that’s where you loosing the plot. “He needed to be appointed a lot earlier than he was and supplied with much better assistants.” You are obviously questioning his credentials without proper assistants, why write him up then?

  • Comment 56, posted at 20.10.16 09:09:54 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 55) : Yea at least shine against Argies and Aus. which never happened. By the S18 standards we should have trashed both those teams, both times.

  • Comment 57, posted at 20.10.16 09:11:31 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 55) : Looking back did the South African teams really have a good Super rugby? Really? The Aussies and Pumas were also very poor this rugby championship…hence the 1 all record against those 2 teams.
    This Indaba may be a small step but its at least got everyone talking about being on the same page.
    I still dont think the Boks will get more than 1 win on the end of year tour but i will still support them.
    In the modern culture of instant gratification i can see why ‘supporters’ are quick to dump the team in favour of those winning, and thats their choice.

  • Comment 58, posted at 20.10.16 09:18:12 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 58) : Look I have said this before so its nothing new but when,England,Wales,Ireland,Scotland and Aus with,Robbie Deans and even next years British Lions realise that they need a foreign coach to stay competitive, .
    Like all those countries,we need to wake up to the fact that we don’t have any one capable of doing the job
    .Alistar Coetzee is not even a competent Super rugby coach.

  • Comment 59, posted at 20.10.16 09:29:38 by The hound Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 56) : Would Steve Hansen be as effective with Stick and Proudfoot? Its a coaching team and thus to achieve better results you need a good team. Ackermann had shite assistants with the SA A side and they lost comfortably- is Ackermann now no good?
    I have never ever said AC is perfect, very far from it. BUT he was the best available at the time.

  • Comment 60, posted at 20.10.16 09:33:26 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 59) : There is no doubt a quality foreign coach will be of great benefit. Is it likely, hell no. So what is the point of going on and on about it when we know the likelyhood of it happening? Should we not try and get the best out of what we have and can get?

  • Comment 61, posted at 20.10.16 09:36:07 by SheldonK Reply

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  • Guys allister really pised me off when he said that we weren’t a top rugby nation even though we thought we were .We came 3rd in the world cup last year .So he is telling me that in one year we have become so shit that it is imposable to win.Bullshit its all about team selection and if he picked the same team that HM picked last year during the WC we would still have been 2nd best in the world and his win tekord would’ve most probably been 7/9 but now he is trying to cover up his own mistakes by saying we have been strugling for a long time and that the team has been underperforming even under HM.Yess we did lose to japan but we still came 3d in the WC and only lost to NZ by 1 point in the semis.I know none of you liked HM but atleast he gave us resultes unlike Alister who seems to be a yess man when it comes to team selection ect.I cant believe that people are buying into what AC is saying that we aren’t a top nation but 1 year ago we were 3rd in the World? .

  • Comment 62, posted at 20.10.16 09:38:59 by schrodingers cat Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 53) : I agree on the statement about the players, they didn’t bring anything they did in SR to the Boks and failed to use their chances. But even when players fail, we shouldn’t be trashed by 9 tries, that’s where the coach has to take the blame for not utilizing those players better or not selecting other players and clearly playing the wrong game, he wasn’t prepared at all, the proof is right there on the score board.

    Isn’t JW available again? He probably wouldn’t want the job anyway although he did say he is still interested in coaching on international level.

  • Comment 63, posted at 20.10.16 09:48:08 by Quintin Reply

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  • So a little comparison…
    Heyneke Meyer Bok team that played the All Blacks in RWC Semi Final-
    15 Willie le Roux, 14 JP Pietersen, 13 Jesse Kriel, 12 Damian de Allende, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Handre Pollard, 9 Fourie du Preez (captain), 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Schalk Burger, 6 Francois Louw, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Bismarck du Plessis, 1 Tendai Mtawarira
    Substitutes: 16 Adriaan Strauss, 17 Trevor Nyakane, 18 Jannie du Plessis, 19 Victor Matfield, 20 Willem Alberts, 21 Ruan Pienaar, 22 Pat Lambie, 23 Jan Serfontein

    AC Bok Team that played All Blacks in Durban:
    1. Beast 2. Strauss 3. Koch 4. Etzebeth 5. DuToit 6. Louw 7. Mahoje 8. Whiteley 9. De Klerk 10. Steyn 11. Habana 12. De Allende 13. De Jongh 14. Hougaard 15. Lambie
    Subs: 16. Mbonambi 17. Kitshoff 18. Redelinghuis 19. De Jager 20. Alberts 21. Jaco Kriel 22. Mapoe 23. LeRoux

  • Comment 64, posted at 20.10.16 09:50:48 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Quintin (Comment 63) : As i said both the players and the coaching staff need to take the responsibility of that loss. But whats the point in carrying on pointing the finger over and over. Should we not be looking forward as that result isnt going to change.
    Do you really think Jake White is a possible option? Really? I think Doc Craven is probably a more realistic option

  • Comment 65, posted at 20.10.16 09:58:24 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 65) : I wouldn’t even want White back at the Kings
    Your question about looking forward is what we should be focusing on with open eyes.
    If Alistar Coetzee is our future then well………………

  • Comment 66, posted at 20.10.16 10:04:04 by The hound Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 49) : yes and great players can but sometimes I personally think we over estimate the quality of players playing and shining behind a dominant pack and then once the pressure is on and their weaknesses is exposed we can’t understand why they’re not performing.
    My believe is easy:
    Behind a dominant pack an average players can look world class but behind a losing pack it takes a world class player to just look average!

  • Comment 67, posted at 20.10.16 10:16:20 by JD Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 66) : Look White plays winning rugby but his SA ties are definitely burnt. Think he is eyeing that Ozzie job. In terms of Alistair Coetzee im sure eventhough you would struggle to admit it he is and will be coach for the next year at least and possibly longer. So 2 options…either people go buy All Black jerseys like the rest of Cape Town OR we hope the SA rugby community via this Indaba and other platforms produce better quality players for the Boks and then better Bok teams are put on display during test matches.

  • Comment 68, posted at 20.10.16 10:22:44 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 65) : Hence I said he wouldn’t want the job. And yes, pointing the finger at the coach won’t help for past results, but going forward, is he the guy we trust with Bok rugby? That’s a no brainer for me. He’s proved his incompetence. I’m very confident in saying the likes of Jones, Gatland, Henry, JW etc. would have done better than AC with the current crop of players and assistant coaches. It’s not just about your skills as a coach and your track record, a lot has to do with the type of mentality you instill in your players to get the best out of them and if we could at least do that it would lift our game a lot.

  • Comment 69, posted at 20.10.16 10:24:20 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @JD (Comment 67) : So you are saying that if our backs were playing with the N.Z forwards we would have beaten the N.Z backs playing with our forwards ;-)

  • Comment 70, posted at 20.10.16 10:28:38 by The hound Reply
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  • @Quintin (Comment 69) : I think its very easy to say those other guys would have done better but i doubt that its as cut and dry as that…maybe they would but very possibly they wouldnt have fared better. Is AC the man to be trusted going forward- well who else is putting up their hand and saying pick me? And lets be honest- AC isnt going anywhere anytime soon. When people wanted Heyneke Meyer booted i said careful what you wish for…and well here we sit.

  • Comment 71, posted at 20.10.16 10:48:04 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 71) : So the one good thing is that it couldn’t get worse,so lets keep this incompetent in place.

  • Comment 72, posted at 20.10.16 10:59:16 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 72) : So what do we do in your opinion? Buy an All Black jersey?

  • Comment 73, posted at 20.10.16 11:26:23 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @benji (Comment 26) : :lol: :lol:

  • Comment 74, posted at 20.10.16 11:50:37 by Volstruis Reply

    VolstruisVodacom Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 73) : Look at the moment I have a lot more interest in the British and Irish Lions tour to New Zealand than in our end of the year tour and next years Super Rugby tournament.

  • Comment 75, posted at 20.10.16 11:51:10 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 75) : Yeh look i will always support the Boks and Sharks no matter what in the hope for a win…well at least i shall try to. I feel i may feel frustrated and let down more often than not but i shall always hope for better. Especially see the potential talent coming through. Having said that i am also very interested in that British Lions tour…i love the old school tours as opposed to these 1 off games and even rugby championship.

  • Comment 76, posted at 20.10.16 12:14:53 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 65) : @The hound (Comment 66) : Peesonally I wouldnt like to see White anywhere near the team, but that is personal opinion but if we are really serious about getting the Boks to level of professional compentancy then I think White is the only realistic short term option to do that. Apparently he has offered his services but has so far been ignored by AC.

  • Comment 77, posted at 20.10.16 12:20:25 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 77) : The concern with White is short term gain (although playing style would be a big issue) and long term pain as he wont stick around we know that. I really dont see AC going anywhere and perhaps him being the figurehead helps in other areas. So lets surround him with better personnel….such as perhaps a Swys DeBruin and a forwards coach

  • Comment 78, posted at 20.10.16 12:25:29 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • White is exactly what is not needed he polarises people, the thing we never learn from the ABs is they are a united community,and hardly ever have divisive situations intuit team.We on the other hand excel in appointing people who split the rugby community
    That should be the major driving force for a neutral overseas candidate.

  • Comment 79, posted at 20.10.16 12:33:52 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 78) : @The hound (Comment 79) : Im only looking at short term gain here – to stop the slide. I feel we need a no nonsense taskmaster that wont take twak from anyone but is fair, astute and honest in what he is doing. As for polarising players, well these are desperate times and this is a desperate measure. Players must realise that they cant stand on the sidelines and let the coaches take all the flak, they also have a big part in the situation that the Boks find themselves in now. Shape up or ship out.

    As for White, I have been polarised from him for a long time now……it doesnt make him a crap coach.

  • Comment 80, posted at 20.10.16 12:52:21 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 80) : The Boks need a sustainable solution or we just going to find ourselves in the same mud in a year or two time. Think they will try patch things up and try some things this year and next but should we be in the same or worse position come December 2017 i think we may see some more drastic changes.

  • Comment 81, posted at 20.10.16 13:07:49 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 78) : Yes, agree that AC is not going anywhere. I only want White there as a desperate, temporary measure to do a hospital job on the team and not a long appointment.

  • Comment 82, posted at 20.10.16 13:10:11 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 81) : Agree on the sustainability but I can promise you that if the results dont go our way and we dish up the same dros in a few weeks time then the fallout from the public will be way worse than what we are seeing now. Methinks that right now this team needs something to believe in and the best way to do that would be to get results going their way asap.

  • Comment 83, posted at 20.10.16 13:41:51 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 83) : Look i do get your point i really do. I just cant see the results going particularly well on this UK tour. The Boks dont have a good record against the Baabaas and they seem to be putting a useful team together. Eng and Wales will be very tough to beat at home- and not a lot of the current Boks have toured the UK before. Italy should be beaten unless we are very poor. But on their narrow field it could be tough if our forwards are whimps

  • Comment 84, posted at 20.10.16 13:49:38 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 84) : I hear you….and I know what you are saying is true. (How sad it is that our expectations of the Springboks are to win 1 game in Europe) What I want is a desperate, stop gap measure that will somehow give us a chance to win all those game….probably impossible, but that would be a base from which to work from going forward. I cant stomach a 20 point loss to the Poms.

  • Comment 85, posted at 20.10.16 13:59:00 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 85) : Id like to see some desperation from the players. I want to see some blood and guts on the field. At the moment they look like a bunch of wimps that cry off when things arent going all their way. Want to see them suck it up and fight. Make those big hits, clear rucks like you actually want the damn ball.

  • Comment 86, posted at 20.10.16 14:39:22 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 86) : If we could see that half the battle for the fans hearts (and sympathy) is won.
    Its why I enjoy watching a (really no hope team) like Georgia because I know they will not give up, they will look forward to the next scrum and breakdown and will climb in as if their lives depended on it. They will also probably lose about three players to cards as the game goes on…….

  • Comment 87, posted at 20.10.16 14:50:20 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 80) : ” i feel we need a no nonsense taskmaster that wont take twak from anyone but is fair, astute and honest in what he is doing.”
    Why is it that an image of John Mitchell immediately springs into my mind.

  • Comment 88, posted at 20.10.16 14:54:09 by The hound Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 87) : 100%. The whimpy attitude of the Boks is probably why frustrates and annoys me more than any gameplan etc employed. There is simply no excuse not to get stuck in. Perhaps a good old fashioned rucking session with the likes of Bakkies, Bismarck, Juan Smith etc is whats needed

  • Comment 89, posted at 20.10.16 14:56:53 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 88) : Thats exactly the type of person needed – at this stage its not a popularity contest.

  • Comment 90, posted at 20.10.16 14:57:36 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 88) : @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 90) : Bearing in mind who has to appoint the coach- realistic chances of John Mitchell getting the job in the next 3yrs? About 0.1% i reckon?

  • Comment 91, posted at 20.10.16 15:00:43 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 91) : funny I calculated the same odds on AC beating Italy.

  • Comment 92, posted at 20.10.16 15:19:21 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 92) : i think my calculation is more accurate. Yours i think based on feelings not fact.

  • Comment 93, posted at 20.10.16 15:21:08 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 70) : well I think it would have been closer and especially Faf and Elton would have looked a lot better behind the All Backs pack!

  • Comment 94, posted at 20.10.16 15:21:26 by JD Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 92) : you don’t even know how the squad looks like but you’re already bashing the team!?!?!?

  • Comment 95, posted at 20.10.16 15:23:28 by JD Reply
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  • http://www.rugby365.com/countries/south-africa/75651-coetzee-people-are-living-in-a-fool-s-paradise

    That article probably paints a true picture of how ‘strong’ Bok rugby really is and has been in recent times. Think the picture in our minds is very different as we think we should win every game.
    Sporadic success is probably very accurate.
    Has SA rugby in genenral embraced professionalism…i would say no in all respects from admin to players

  • Comment 96, posted at 20.10.16 15:30:11 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 96) : that really makes for sad reading!!! Even Oz has won more Super rugby and Championship trophies than SA!!! Most shocking is the fact that NZ teams has won double the total of the SA and Oz teams combined!!!

  • Comment 97, posted at 20.10.16 16:00:47 by JD Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 96) : “The Springbok coach, Coetzee, said South Africa need a ‘reality check’ and anybody thinking that the country was still a top rugby playing nation was living in a fool’s paradise.” have to agree, the team under his watch have only confirmed it.

    The other coaches before him have been bluffing us with smoke and mirrors………and close, competitive scorelines.

    I will maybe go and read the rest of the article now.

  • Comment 98, posted at 20.10.16 16:10:05 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 97) : Puts things into perspective. Especially those winning percentages in super rugby and rugby championship. We definitely think we are better than we actually are. Sporadic success is so spot on

  • Comment 99, posted at 20.10.16 16:11:03 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 98) : Seeing those winning percentages etc really put the picture into perspective for me. Sporadic success is a perfect description in my opinion.

  • Comment 100, posted at 20.10.16 16:12:21 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 91) : I must agree. I doubt he has very many fans at SARU.

  • Comment 101, posted at 20.10.16 16:18:59 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 101) : And thats the fan club you need…

  • Comment 102, posted at 20.10.16 16:23:20 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 98) : @SheldonK (Comment 100) : well one things is true and that is that most of the administrators (of rugby) in this country is more woried about themselves and their own future than the wellbeing of rugby!!!
    If they were working in the private sector most would have been fired a long time ago and some would even have been sent to prison!!!
    Sorry to say but untill this change SA rugby will be going nowhere but down!!!

  • Comment 103, posted at 20.10.16 16:24:04 by JD Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 100) : Still havent read the article, the results were sporadic – agreed but did AC mention anything about the guts shown by the players in those games and if they were in fact competitive and actually had a chance of winning the games they lost. To herd previous Bok players and coaches (most) into the same kraal as the one we have seen these last couple of months is pushing it a bit.

  • Comment 104, posted at 20.10.16 16:40:58 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 104) :

    AC just told you that the emperor is not wearing any clothes.

  • Comment 105, posted at 20.10.16 18:58:08 by fyndraai Reply
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    fyndraaiTeam captain
     
  • @fyndraai (Comment 105) : hahaha nice one!!! Wonder how the record would look if Kitchen Christie’s 14-0 record and the 17 match winning streak is not added to the stats!!!

  • Comment 106, posted at 20.10.16 20:34:17 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 97) : They should call it the All Blacks invitational cup. Since they do in fact own it.

  • Comment 107, posted at 21.10.16 08:28:58 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @fyndraai (Comment 105) : Jaaa, are you, or (Dancing Bear) around, I need educating on things American.

  • Comment 108, posted at 21.10.16 08:52:38 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 106) : And that is exactly my point….AC does those coaches and teams a massive disservice by playing down those achievements. He should rather focus on them and strive to emulate them.

  • Comment 109, posted at 21.10.16 08:55:32 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 104) : As they say there is no room for comments in the results column. So no he didnt to mention that to my knowledge. And whilst yes i do get your point…and i believe stats should be taken in context, the fact is the win/loss percentages do tell a story

  • Comment 110, posted at 21.10.16 08:57:40 by SheldonK Reply

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