robdylan

Two Bok squads named on Saturday


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Springboks on 21 Oct 2016 at 09:29
Tagged with : , , , , , , , , ,

The unfortunate scheduling of November 4th’s Barbarians game – it falls outside of the agreed International window – means that Bok coach Allister Coetzee will not have access to almost a team’s worth of front line stars for this year’s End of Year Tour opener.

One can argue that this situation, in itself, is a glaring pointer to just how over-dependant Bok rugby is on overseas-based players at the moment, with a host of test regulars who are committed to clubs in the UK, Ireland, France and Japan only due to be released for the following week’s game against England. Coetzee will thus announce two different (but presumably overlapping) squads for the upcoming tour, with the groups of names to comprise each set to be announced after Saturday’s Currie Cup final.

The first squad will include players who will play against the Barbarians in a non-test fixture in a little over two weeks’ time, with a large number of those called up presumably to be sent home immediately after, as the regulars filter back in ahead of the remainder of the tour. The silver lining here is the opportunity for Coetzee to assess a number of form players from Currie Cup, in order to determine their suitability for test rugby in the years to come. From a Sharks point of view, one would certainly hope that the likes of Curwin Bosch, Andre Esterhuizen, Jean-Luc du Preez and Lukhanyo Am could come into contention for places against the Barbarians.

The squad announcements will be made at 7pm South African time this Saturday.



62 Comments

  • Further to the non availability of Overseas based players for Barbarians game, because the game falls outside of International window, and as there are no games scheduled on the 5 November in the Aviva Premiership. One presumes that SARFU have or would ask these Clubs in the spirit of Barbarians game to release the following players
    JP Pieterson [Leicester Tigers] Schalk Burger [Saracens], Vincent Koch [Saracens], Francois
    Hougaard [Worcester] & Francois Louw [Bath],

    And if we need scrum half, Nic Groom [Northampton]

    We just keep making the same mistakes over and over, only last year the French based players were affected by the International window, for the Test against Wales

  • Comment 1, posted at 21.10.16 09:37:27 by conrod Reply
    Under 19 player
     
  • Well I hope he tries some new centres for the Barbarians game even though our current crop are all pretty much available. Theirs 2 inside centres I feel deserve a look in…

  • Comment 2, posted at 21.10.16 09:40:06 by Hulk Reply
    HulkSuper Rugby player
     
  • Bite the bullet, implement a “only SA based player for Bok selection” policy.

  • Comment 3, posted at 21.10.16 10:05:08 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • This end of year tour would have given the perfect opportunity for the SA A side to get another run. Could have played the Barbarians and then had 3 midweek games against say England Saxons, Romania and Georgia. That would have given the players a good test and could see who is able to make the step up a level. Oh well…maybe next time

  • Comment 4, posted at 21.10.16 10:08:34 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 3) : For there to be a solid foundation in SA rugby that is what is needed currently

  • Comment 5, posted at 21.10.16 10:10:12 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @conrod (Comment 1) : Louw is out injured for a few weeks.

  • Comment 6, posted at 21.10.16 11:08:10 by KingCheetah Reply

    KingCheetahTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 5) : I fear that the pride of playing for the Springboks has started to fade away. Money seems to be the driving force these days with a player opting for a big pay cheque versus a national Cap. It might be a good idea to only play local guys but my big concern is how do you keep them loyal. That is the tricky question considering the weak Rand.

  • Comment 7, posted at 21.10.16 11:12:17 by Farlington Reply

    FarlingtonSuper Rugby player
     
  • Its Odd how we originally had 2 foreign players, then he makes mention of weening off foreign players…. now we have 14 foreign players and a problem.

  • Comment 8, posted at 21.10.16 11:15:39 by Warren Harvey Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @Farlington (Comment 7) : I fear that the pride of playing for the Springboks has started to fade away. Money seems to be the driving force these days with a player opting for a big pay cheque versus a national Cap. – that is professional sport the world over for you.

  • Comment 9, posted at 21.10.16 11:16:47 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Farlington (Comment 7) : Quick answer – look after them, pay them very well, dont overstock the pantry.

  • Comment 10, posted at 21.10.16 11:42:56 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Warren Harvey (Comment 8) : If you are going to choose foreign players, then choose the best ones available and dont put a limit on that number.

  • Comment 11, posted at 21.10.16 11:45:00 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 9) : That it is. But this is not only felt on a National Level but also on a Domestic Level. I just wonder if SARU were to leave SANZAR and join Europe if it won’t stop some of the raiding going on. Perhaps it will bring in bigger sponsors making it easier to keep more of our talent. I realize that this is just one of many problems we are facing at the moment but the only we to get back on track is to try and sort out one problem at a time.

  • Comment 12, posted at 21.10.16 11:56:21 by Farlington Reply

    FarlingtonSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Farlington (Comment 12) : I think you assume its as easy as leaving SANZAAR and joining Europe. Why on earth would Europe want SARU joining them? I see no benefit to them.

  • Comment 13, posted at 21.10.16 12:25:09 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 13) : Exactly that logic has always eluded me,they must now cough up the airfares and travel time to S.A

  • Comment 14, posted at 21.10.16 12:48:20 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 14) : Yeh i open to suggestion but i cannot see how SARU joining Europe would be of any benefit to them. Also is it not better for our rugby to be playing NZ and OZ regularly? Yes we struggling currently but surely when we see some improvement and progression against those sides then its a realistic gauge of real improvement. Just my thoughts

  • Comment 15, posted at 21.10.16 12:57:58 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 13) : Simple… Money!

    @The hound (Comment 14) : Do you think SANZAAR or any other body asks the players what they want, or do they just go ahead and make decisions on what they feel will be beneficial for the “organization”?

  • Comment 16, posted at 21.10.16 13:03:22 by Farlington Reply

    FarlingtonSuper Rugby player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 15) : The main reason we are struggling is that we are trying to field too many teams,we do not have enough players for six teams,we definitely have enough for four.

  • Comment 17, posted at 21.10.16 13:07:11 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 15) : That might have been true in the past. But now days we are losing so many players every year we hardly have continuity going into the next season. This means we are always on the back foot. My suggestion relates more about how to curb our talent leaving our shores. If it mean we have to focus on the North then why not consider it and see how that might benefit SA 5 Years on.

  • Comment 18, posted at 21.10.16 13:10:27 by Farlington Reply

    FarlingtonSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Farlington (Comment 16) : I presume you are talking about tThe European Rugby Champions Cup championship which used to be the Heineken cup.
    This is the top-tier competition for clubs whose countries’ national teams compete in the Six Nations Championship. Clubs qualify for the Champions Cup via their final positions in their respective national/regional leagues (Premiership, Top 14, and Pro12); those who do not qualify are instead eligible to compete in the second-tier Challenge Cup.
    The clubs run it and not the national unions.

  • Comment 19, posted at 21.10.16 13:15:19 by The hound Reply
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  • @Farlington (Comment 16) : At R17 rand to the Pound and R15 to the Euro i dont see what monetary benefit SARu brings? Well other than Europe having to spend a lot to include us. @Farlington (Comment 18) : Im not sure how playing against European sides will stop the talent drain? The talent goes because they get paid more not because of opposition. Just because we join Europe doesnt mean we could pay the same.

  • Comment 20, posted at 21.10.16 13:31:00 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 17) : 100% correct there. If we had say 3 or 4 teams how much stronger would they be??

  • Comment 21, posted at 21.10.16 13:31:44 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 20) : the only thing that could change is Supersport could get more money for their broadcasting rights so teams could get more money but not sure if it would make such a big deference!?

  • Comment 22, posted at 21.10.16 13:59:01 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 22) : Thats a possible benefit for Supersport…but what benefit to Europe to want to include SARU? Yes there is benefit for us but not them

  • Comment 23, posted at 21.10.16 14:03:44 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 22) : Why would the European broadcast houses give their product to Super sport.

  • Comment 24, posted at 21.10.16 14:18:54 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 24) : new tournament so new broadcast contracts. Supersport, Sky sport, ESPN does not matter someone will make money from broadcast rights and the money will filter down to teams.

  • Comment 25, posted at 21.10.16 15:54:53 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 23) : ja not much except the novelty of a new competition with new competitors.

  • Comment 26, posted at 21.10.16 16:00:31 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 26) : Not much of a selling point that. They pack their grounds with the comps they currently have.

  • Comment 27, posted at 21.10.16 16:02:25 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 27) : true! Think “we” assume that everyone in the world is just begging to be involved with the greatness that’s SA rugby!

  • Comment 28, posted at 21.10.16 16:28:42 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 17) : yes fully agree but also why join NH rugby, the gulf with SH rugby is just growing larger

  • Comment 29, posted at 21.10.16 16:50:43 by benji Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Team captain
     
  • @benji (Comment 29) : I would state that a little differently, the gulf between the All Blacks and every team in world rugby is growing. I don’t believe the gulf between SA, Aus, and Arg and the rest of the rugby world is growing at all, perhaps shrinking.

  • Comment 30, posted at 21.10.16 17:35:39 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 30) : england under eddie jones seems to be on an upward curve.

  • Comment 31, posted at 21.10.16 17:38:01 by 50shadesofshark3 Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @50shadesofshark3 (Comment 31) : Correct, they are, although I also believe the gulf between them and the ABs is also growing. My point was that the gulf between the north and south is not growing, it is only between the ABs and everyone else that this is happening.

  • Comment 32, posted at 21.10.16 18:11:40 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 32) : Next years British and Irish Lions tour to NZ,will answer that question.,and the B and I Lions have a NZ coach.

  • Comment 33, posted at 21.10.16 18:33:53 by The hound Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 30) : @50shadesofshark3 (Comment 31) : @Dancing Bear (Comment 32) : Gents please dont fall into the trap of Enghlish hype,its a worse affliction than Stormer hype,its for England just like its great sovcer revival after 66,nope

  • Comment 34, posted at 21.10.16 18:35:32 by benji Reply
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  • @benji (Comment 34) : I do not think EJ is the only reason for the English performance. Must say the English is doing something right with their junior structures and that will for sure help their senior side.

  • Comment 35, posted at 21.10.16 18:53:43 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @benji (Comment 34) : I was not jumping on the England bandwagon, I just do not think the gulf between north and south is growing, between ABs and everyone else it is still growing though.

  • Comment 36, posted at 21.10.16 18:54:18 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 35) : @Dancing Bear (Comment 36) : last WC and previous one who were all the semi finalists?

  • Comment 37, posted at 21.10.16 19:07:00 by benji Reply
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  • @benji (Comment 37) : and that is over a ten year phase is it not?

  • Comment 38, posted at 21.10.16 19:08:10 by benji Reply
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  • @benji (Comment 37) : Benji, yes, the south dominated the RWC (semis and finals), but that in no way proves the gulf is growing. The evidence from this year’s performances is that the gulf is narrowing, except with respect to the ABs. What happened over the past 10 years is irrelevant with regard to the whether the gulf is growing or shrinking right now.

  • Comment 39, posted at 21.10.16 19:11:56 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @benji (Comment 37) : Also. SA and Arg did not make the semis in 2011, and NZ did not make the semis in 2007.

  • Comment 40, posted at 21.10.16 19:14:27 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 40) : And of course a one off RWC every four years really does not prove anything about the existence or not of a gulf.

  • Comment 41, posted at 21.10.16 19:15:07 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 41) : I differ,it does mate the cream will always rise to the top

  • Comment 42, posted at 21.10.16 19:24:35 by benji Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 40) : thats cause NZ wete beaten by the last great French team that will be no more and it included one of the all time greats French Fred

  • Comment 43, posted at 21.10.16 19:26:31 by benji Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 40) : who were the majority in all those even on your version?

  • Comment 44, posted at 21.10.16 19:27:41 by benji Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 32) : nz seems to get advantaged on calls.this is not moaning but I don’t think they are this good.just in the last game vs boks in durban there was a try allowed (perenara)that shouldve been a bok penalty.then whitelock shouldve been red-carded for striking whiteley with the elbow (when whiteley went to stop the maul).so the abs should have gone into halftime trailing and a player down.now if the boks were only fitter..and had their best available team on the field..
    I just want a fair game.it would be great if min of sport put some pressure on irb.there been some howlers with re: ref decisions in boks last 2 home tests.how can boks be expected to compete when it seems the calls keep on going against them??
    Start by getting this team fitter and ensure fair calls.

  • Comment 45, posted at 21.10.16 19:33:50 by 50shadesofshark3 Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @50shadesofshark3 (Comment 45) : Averaging more than 38 points per game against Wales, Aus, SA, and Arg is incredibly impressive for 2016 don’t you think? As for being advantaged by calls, I’m afraid this is a more of a SA problem, SA teams seem incapable of playing to the ref, instead choosing to demand the ref calls the game to them. This is a problem for SA rugby. NZ know how to play to the ref, and therefore get the benefit of the positive calls. SA teams by demanding refs call the game to them, just get on the wrong side of the ref and never get the benefit of the calls, but that is their own fault.

  • Comment 46, posted at 21.10.16 19:47:25 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 46) : when the tmo and the ref get it wrong with the perenara try review and neither of the 4 can spot the clear elbow strike to whiteley’s head then I’m afraid I disagree with you re: boks don’t know how to play the ref – or the tmo or the ones running with flags on the sideline.
    What about the incident where mapoe was tackled off the ball and nz scored?why is it that as a bok supporter one just has that niggling suspicion that if that was the boks on the attack,the try wouldve been disallowed.and maybe even a yellow card given?

  • Comment 47, posted at 21.10.16 20:00:49 by 50shadesofshark3 Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @50shadesofshark3 (Comment 45) : @Dancing Bear (Comment 46) : and make it a real battle and contest at the break-down.don’t hang-off from them.get in there and fight.

  • Comment 48, posted at 21.10.16 20:06:10 by 50shadesofshark3 Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 46) : now aint that the truth of it,backed up by arrogant stupidity,but now its just plain stupid arrogance as the Bokke dont even have the game anymore

  • Comment 49, posted at 21.10.16 20:13:09 by benji Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 46) : Well said,
    @50shadesofshark3 (Comment 47) : Mate what about the other 8 trys,your argument is quite pathetic when you look at a score line like that,even Tappa Henning couldn’t have saved us in that game,we were worse than dogshite.

  • Comment 50, posted at 21.10.16 20:26:56 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 50) : all I’m saying is nz shouldve played with 14 players (missing a tight forward) for 40mins ,and trailing going into halftime break.
    How much would that have influenced the final score? I’m just asking for fair calls.
    The boks have problems,no denying that.but how much will it matter if they do get that right if crucial calls keep on going against them?

  • Comment 51, posted at 21.10.16 20:37:54 by 50shadesofshark3 Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @benji (Comment 37) : yes maybe they dominate World cup but did not really see the “gulf” when England beat Oz 3-0 and SA lost to Ireland?!?!

  • Comment 52, posted at 22.10.16 13:56:26 by JD Reply
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  • This is what happens if SA tries to play expansive rugby.This is the shittist final I have ever seen. There was 0 structure in this game with wayyyy to many errors for pro rugby . Pathetic to say the least.

  • Comment 53, posted at 22.10.16 17:30:19 by schrodingers cat Reply

    schrodingers catCurrie Cup player
     
  • @schrodingers cat (Comment 53) : was not impressed by the skill and decision-making either.but congrats to the cheetahs.well done on an unbeaten 2016 cc season.

  • Comment 54, posted at 22.10.16 20:36:37 by 50shadesofshark3 Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • @schrodingers cat (Comment 53) : At some point SA must add a little more than crash rugby to their repertoire. It will be hard going but without getting better at expansive rugby as well,we will never be able to compete. Change is like a mountain. It always starts with the steep hard part.

  • Comment 55, posted at 24.10.16 07:05:31 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 55) : And they were trying to play expansively in that final but man it was shoking the amount of errors that were made .Everyone wants SA to play like NZ but if that final was a indication of where we are in rugby at the moment then its shoking

  • Comment 56, posted at 24.10.16 07:38:25 by schrodingers cat Reply

    schrodingers catCurrie Cup player
     
  • @schrodingers cat (Comment 53) : It is one thing to play expansive attacking rugby against an average defense – quite another to do it under the dual pressures from a committed defense as well as the expectations that come from a final. Kudos still to the Cheetahs to continue with their standard pattern of play, instead of reverting to a standard SA kick and hope plan.

  • Comment 57, posted at 24.10.16 08:19:32 by Bokhoring Reply
    Administrator
    BokhoringAssistant coach
     
  • @schrodingers cat (Comment 56) : Yup we’ve had a false sense of security for a while now. Now it will be a hard road to make up lost time and ground.

  • Comment 58, posted at 24.10.16 19:04:44 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • Anyone catch the montpellier game? Steyn having a tough time with the boot and handling. Didn’t look very convincing. Nadolo on the other hand proving his value.

  • Comment 59, posted at 24.10.16 19:19:07 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 59) : Steyn did look like he was perhaps trying a bit too hard. Its why i prefer him at 12 than 10 as at 12 he doesnt try to win the game himself. His passing game is very good though. Nadolo proves the value of a big winger in that 5m space even if he isnt as fast as many other wings

  • Comment 60, posted at 25.10.16 07:52:52 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 60) : Especially close to the line. Better chance of winning those 1 on 1 contests and make use of momentum.

  • Comment 61, posted at 25.10.16 21:13:59 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 61) : Indeed. There is a reason rugby is a game for all shapes and sizes…just got to use each person to their best abilities.

  • Comment 62, posted at 26.10.16 08:21:35 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     

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