robdylan

No silk purse for Allister


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Springboks on 14 Nov 2016 at 11:26
Tagged with : , , , ,

You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear, as the old saying goes, although in today’s parlance, the somewhat more ribald version about “polishing a turd” seems more apt when talking about Bok rugby.

In one of Shakespeare’s most famous speeches, Mark Anthony (not be confused with new SARU head honcho Mark Alexander!) said something about coming to bury Caesar, not to praise him. This piece is certainly not meant to praise Allister Coetzee, because only a fool would do that given his recent record; however, the intention is not to bury him either, because I have serious doubts as to whether even the best coach in the world could turn this motley collection into a world-beating Bok team.

Let’s not kid ourselves here, guys. The player corps available to the Springboks at the time of writing is nothing special. There are incredibly few genuine standout players and the general rank and file in the team are woefully behind international competitors, not only in terms of skill, but also attitude and commitment. There genuinely are hardly any true stars in this group, players whom the likes of Steve Hansen or Eddie Jones would be rushing to pick in their own winning sides. Worse still, there are no true leaders among this group.

Casting our minds back to the last time the Boks were quite this poor- 2003 – we were in a similarly dire situation in terms of playing resources, with Rudi Straeuli seemingly convinced to hand out a cap to any journeyman he could find. It took a number of years and a very special generation of players to turn that situation around, but that glorious summer is now well over. A long winter of discontent lies ahead, as the vert last dregs of the famed “class of 2007″ limp their way towards retirement.

This time around, though, there’s an even more odious force working against Coetzee. In 2004, when Jake White took over, I doubt we could genuinely say there were too many players for whom the Boks were not first priority. Sure, he had to go abroad to bring back a veteran or two (Percy Montgomery, for instance) but for the most part, he was able to select a team of talented young players who played locally and put nothing ahead of the Springbok cause.

Fast forward to 2016 and ask yourself just how many of the current breed are genuinely committed to Bok rugby and the Springbok jersey. How can a player who joins a tour late and arrives from Japan the week of a big test match say they are committed to Bok rugby? How can a player who has not had an off-season in three years because he’s too busy maximising his own earning potential say he is committed to Bok rugby? And how much worse is it for the coach when the cream of young talent that should be available to him decides to leave the country and play abroad because there apparently isn’t enough money in the local game to keep them interested in the Bok jersey.

No, I’m sorry guys, slate the coach as much as you like but save a barb or two for the players who – by their very clear actions – are putting their own purses first and the Boks a very distant second.



327 Comments

  • Rob, I agree with most of your article, but this “I have serious doubts as to whether even the best coach in the world could turn this motley collection into a world-beating Bok team.” EJ showed how he took a England team who could not even make the quarterfinals last year and haven’t lost a game in 10 starts. Our coaching is appalling and I have to agree totally about the commitment from the players as well. After this tour there needs to be a firm stand on players playing their trade overseas to not be selected. You either in or you out, by that you will start getting a firm commitment from players who want to play for the jersey.

  • Comment 1, posted at 14.11.16 11:37:12 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • Firstly brush up on your Shakespeare,Mark Anthony never knifed Caesar,secondly when is Coetzee going to man up to the fact that he is not an international coach.
    Every time we lose he blames something else’s this week its the players.
    Whose fault is it that we play five jumpers and never contest one of 15 opposition line outs.
    Whose fault is it that the ball never gets past the no12 ,
    Whose fault is it that Senior players are not interested in playing for him.
    Whose fault is it that barely a year later the team that placed third at theWorld Cup are worried about losing to Italy.

  • Comment 2, posted at 14.11.16 11:46:23 by The hound Reply
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  • “No, I’m sorry guys, slate the coach as much as you like but save a barb or two for the players who – by their very clear actions – are putting their own purses first and the Boks a very distant second.”

    SARU allowed this to happen, this is their own doing by allowing overseas players to be picked. Don’t blame the players, they have contracts in place, and don’t select them selves on the end of the day.

  • Comment 3, posted at 14.11.16 11:50:48 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • I agree totally with what Hennie Le Roux said last week, the players cannot play for coaches that they have no respect for.
    We need to get an overseas coach now to save our rugby.
    Jones’s here at the Stormers he would have jumped at the Bok job.

  • Comment 4, posted at 14.11.16 11:51:30 by The hound Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 3) : I disagree with you the players are getting paid huge money for only one reason,
    they are worth it.
    I don’t think any player ever turned down the Bok jersey because he wasn’t getting paid enough.
    Coetzee has created a toxic environment and he will never get out of it
    #Coetzee must fall.

  • Comment 5, posted at 14.11.16 11:58:32 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 4) : The only overseas coach who understands the SA dynamics and who might actually be willing to take this job on is Plum. I don’t see anyone else willingly doing it.

  • Comment 6, posted at 14.11.16 11:59:47 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 5) : You cant expect players to be fresh if they play 3 years without a break.

  • Comment 7, posted at 14.11.16 12:00:36 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • I see the sentiment in this article and part of me agrees with it to some extent BUT you can have the best players in the world and if you play them out of position the likelihood is they wont perform.

    Common sense says you’re not going to take a gun and use it as a hammer and expect the same results but that is exactly what AC was hoping for! He played a no 7 flank as an openside (WA has never played 6) and a No 5 lock as a number 7 and then he was probably confused why we got slow ball.

    We played with probably the most competitive lineout pack in recent springbok history and yet we did not contest for the ball in the lineouts.

    Our gameplan (not that it is that well defined) revolves around soaking up the pressure and then relying on turnovers – yet we wait for the opposition to run at us and we don’t take up any space – so when were hit with a quick one-two were static and our line is broken.

    We’ve stuck with a captain who has resigned from internationals and is “going through the motions”

    You also cant expect players to want to play if they haven’t bought into what you are trying and to me that seems obvious.

  • Comment 8, posted at 14.11.16 12:12:13 by byron Reply

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  • nah Ill just blame Coetzee thank you very much. He picks the them. I dont blame the donkey for being a donkey. I blame the schmuck who thinks its a race horse.

  • Comment 9, posted at 14.11.16 12:14:29 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • I am fully convinced these Bok performances are not attributed to just 1 factor abut are an accumulation of factors. Yes AC hasnt exactly picked everyones favourite team but neither did Jake White and Kitch Christie and they won World Cups. The players are not backing up AC’s faith in selecting them, they have all been very poor at the basics of the game and shown zero heart and commitment. It honestly looks as though they are preserving themselves to earn other paycheques. They had a 2 week camp in JHB and brought in specialists to try help…but with so many foreigners selected no wonder it look disjointed. Its so easy to blame the coach for everything…but when players make mistakes that u14s dont make they need to also look at themselves. And thats what everyone involved in Bok rugby needs to do- have a good honest look in the mirror and ask if they truly are giving their all for the Boks.

  • Comment 10, posted at 14.11.16 12:15:38 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 7) : Tell me how the Argies put up that fight against Wales with basically the same team that played Super Rugby,The four nations ,the June Internationals and now the end of the year tests.
    Most of those guys have played more rugby than any of ours.

  • Comment 11, posted at 14.11.16 12:16:41 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 2) : oh shit, you’re right! I’m confusing Anthony with Brutus. Let me edit

  • Comment 12, posted at 14.11.16 12:19:56 by robdylan Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 11) : Most of the argies don’t play in europe and japan. Japan is the biggest issue here because our payers go directly from Super rugby or CC to japan and then also arrive late to the pre season training.

  • Comment 13, posted at 14.11.16 12:20:33 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 9) : Well said

  • Comment 14, posted at 14.11.16 12:22:36 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • 2 biggest lies in SA rugby at the moment.
    1- we cant afford to pay our top players. Bullshit. Stop wasting money and pay the top guys top dollar. they will stay.
    2- It will take ages to fix the boks. Bullshit. It takes the right guy no time at all. Examples are plenty. Jake White’s boks. Eddie’s England. Jake’s Brumbies. Mckenzie’s Reds. Muir’s Sharks. Cheika’s waratahs. etc etc. Fire him now!

  • Comment 15, posted at 14.11.16 12:22:37 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 10) : It’s a no brainer they are not giving their all , that is not the question you should be asking ,but rather why are they not giving their all for the Boks.
    Because the great Springbok jersey has like the rand been devalued, and unless it is rescued soon it will go the way of so many other things in this country down the shitter.

  • Comment 16, posted at 14.11.16 12:23:41 by The hound Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 3) : you know I am against the system that allows this to happen. But every player must make a choice at the end of the day,

  • Comment 17, posted at 14.11.16 12:23:58 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 13) :

    Thats an excuse we have 2 players that fall into that catergory at most and a number of players playing mid season in europe.

    Beast Mtawarira, 2. Adriaan Strauss (Capt), 3. Vincent Koch, 4. Eben Etzebeth, 5. Lood de Jager, 6. Willem Alberts, 7. Pieter-Steph du Toit, 8. Warren Whiteley, 9. Rudi Paige, 10. Pat Lambie, 11. JP Pietersen, 12. Damian de Allende, 13. Francois Venter, 14. Ruan Combrinck, 15. Willie le Roux.

    Substitues: 16. Bongi Mbonambi, 17. Steven Kitshoff, 18. Lourens Adriaanse, 19. Franco Mostert, 20. Nizaam Carr, 21. Faf de Klerk, 22. Johan Goosen, 23. Lionel Mapoe

  • Comment 18, posted at 14.11.16 12:24:07 by byron Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 17) : The system is allowing them the choice to have both sides of the bread buttered.

  • Comment 19, posted at 14.11.16 12:25:16 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 15) : 1. The liquidation of WP rugby, the Kings and money troubles at the Sharks pretty much disproves your first point im afraid.

  • Comment 20, posted at 14.11.16 12:25:45 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @byron (Comment 18) : fair enough. I didn’t look at it in great detail I wont lie.

  • Comment 21, posted at 14.11.16 12:26:31 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 20) : no, it doesn’t. I think it proves his point. Too much money is being wasted on too many mediocre players and non-essential professional teams.

  • Comment 22, posted at 14.11.16 12:29:50 by robdylan Reply
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  • Do your selves a favour and look at the front page of news24.com
    “Willie le Roux and Ruan Combrinck argue after England beat the Boks at Twickenham in London”

    Willie seems to always be arguing with his fellow players. This is part of the rot in the team.

  • Comment 23, posted at 14.11.16 12:34:30 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • Firing AC and appointing Robbie Deans (as an example, can’t think of someone else right now) may improve things in the short term. We need to acknowledge however that Deans would still be building on very dodgy foundations. SARU needs to gets its house in order if we want the Boks to be successful on a more consistent basis. I’m far more interested in that compared to hiring yet another coach who’s head we’ll be calling for down the line.

  • Comment 24, posted at 14.11.16 12:35:59 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 24) : thank goodness you’re here. It’s starting to feel a bit like an echo chamber.

  • Comment 25, posted at 14.11.16 12:36:50 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 25) : Let me ask you: Why then is Coetzee free of blame?

  • Comment 26, posted at 14.11.16 12:39:16 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 20) : No, the Kings pretty much proves my point.

  • Comment 27, posted at 14.11.16 12:40:01 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 20) : actually all of it proves my point. they cant work with money.

  • Comment 28, posted at 14.11.16 12:43:21 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 23) : Ja I commented on that in the season he was always shitting on everyone around him, especially when he made a mistake, can’t say I was sorry to see him leave the Sharks.

  • Comment 29, posted at 14.11.16 12:44:13 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 16) : How do you rescue the Bok jerseys worth? Bearing in mind the economy etc

  • Comment 30, posted at 14.11.16 12:45:38 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 22) : @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 27) : @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 28) : Fact is the money is not there to do that whether we feel its wasted or not. We also cannot compare with the money being paid in Europe and Japan…we simply cant.

  • Comment 31, posted at 14.11.16 12:48:02 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 26) : did you not read the article, mate? When did I say he is free of blame?

  • Comment 32, posted at 14.11.16 12:50:47 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 32) : because only a fool would do that given his recent record; however, the intention is not to bury him either, because I have serious doubts as to whether even the best coach in the world could turn this motley collection into a world-beating Bok team. Rob, I agree that we can’t just bury Coetzee, but how on earth do you explain picking a loose trio of Du Toit and Alberts – the two heaviest flanks in the world. it just makes no sense to me. Has Coetzee not realised that this is no longer the 2007 World Cup. JL now needs to be given a go, Alberts must play back up lock or go, Du Toit and Lood must start at lock, De Allende must go back to currie cup and find form, Lambie must go back to currie cup/ super rugby and find form, Pietersen must go, bring in Ulengo – so many players there just not playing well, drop them, make them play their way back in. England went to sleep at 30-9, it could have been so much worse, I mean Eddie Jones reckons England played shit, what the hell does that say about us?

  • Comment 33, posted at 14.11.16 12:57:35 by Vonno13 Reply
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 30) : It is very simple, go back to what it should stand for, nobody should be excluded from it for any other reason than their abilty to play rugby, and nobody should be include on it for any other reason than their ability to play rugby.
    Thats how the All Blacks jersey works.
    That should permeate through out the whole system,officals,coaches,players,everytime you make an exception you devalue the whole process.

  • Comment 34, posted at 14.11.16 13:04:55 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 34) : Easier to say than implement. Taking ‘other’ factors out of it…who is the supreme authority on ability then? Cos if we ask the people on this blog to choose i can guarantee at least 5 different teams will be picked. NZ and Eng people think Pollard should be the 10 taking SA forward but we think he is garbage. So who gets to be the authority on ability?

  • Comment 35, posted at 14.11.16 13:07:58 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 34) : @SheldonK (Comment 30) : side note guys. Is it coincidence that the two butt ugliest jerseys ever worn buy a springbok team were in 2003 and 2016? You dont think that if you look like a doos, you play like a doos?

  • Comment 36, posted at 14.11.16 13:12:47 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 36) : Look no arguing that- the jersey looks properly kak

  • Comment 37, posted at 14.11.16 13:18:24 by SheldonK Reply

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  • And in other positive news, South Africa won the World Rugby Classic Final in Bermuda, Argentina 0 – South Africa 12

  • Comment 38, posted at 14.11.16 13:22:39 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 38) : Yeh saw that- some interesting names in that team. My brother went to that comp- says its one hell of a party

  • Comment 39, posted at 14.11.16 13:23:45 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 35) : I haven’t seen Pollard play for a long time, but I think before his injury that they are right .
    He and Marcel,Duanne Vermullen,Bismark and Frans Steyn would turn this team around.

  • Comment 40, posted at 14.11.16 13:24:29 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 40) : and quickly too

  • Comment 41, posted at 14.11.16 13:32:12 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 40) : Yeh look i agree with you on those names. But thats 2 of us agreeing…how many others would? Not just on this blog but in Sa? So i fully agree with ‘only picking on ability’…but who is going to do the picking and have everyone’s backing- thats a big issue

  • Comment 42, posted at 14.11.16 13:37:48 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 36) : At least something to laugh at through all the seriousness.

    I have to add to people defending AC, I’ll keep saying it until he leaves. He’s not an international coach, if the players are doing bad, who’s responsibility is it to change that? Drop the player if he makes the same mistakes over and over or doesn’t find any form, just be decisive! He’s not being anything at the moment, certainly not a leader of any sorts. I can’t get why people keep defending him. Only a coward of a coach blames his players after a match, how’s that for instilling confidence in the players that he picks himself? There’s no direction, that part certainly comes from the coaches and the plans they set in place and when there’s a clear cut plan, the players have something to buy into and believe in, they don’t believe in AC, and he offers them no reason to change their minds.

  • Comment 43, posted at 14.11.16 13:41:50 by Quintin Reply

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  • @Quintin (Comment 43) : One thing I can say is AC is really setting up JW for another “repair job” :)

  • Comment 44, posted at 14.11.16 14:23:39 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 44) : If White gets appointed i will definitely be staying indoors as there will no doubt be one hell of a lot of thunder/lighting/hail/snow and pigs flying

  • Comment 45, posted at 14.11.16 14:25:14 by SheldonK Reply

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  • Rob, I hear what you say, but Toetie was the backline coach of the Boks, and they could not score a try, he was coach at the stormers and with some of the most gifted attacking players at his disposal they couldn’t score tries, and now the same with the Boks. Now AC is blaming his players, players that HE picked out of position and out of form and told them to play HIS gameplan. FFS, there is nothing that any one can say anymore to defend him. he is kak, plain and simple. We do have the players, but they do not have a leader either on or off the field. Back in 2004, Jake faced the same problems, he had no superstars, he had a seemingly useless group of no-namers and has-beens that he moulded into a team, and he did that by giving his players confidence and backing them. Not this Star Wars Muppet reject that looks like he is going to burst into tears at any moment…geez I can go on and on but I’m just working myself up here…

  • Comment 46, posted at 14.11.16 14:42:20 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 46) : Yoda is not a muppet.

  • Comment 47, posted at 14.11.16 14:48:53 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 47) : Oh I know, and AC wishes he had an ounch of Yoda’s smarts. AC is more like the knock off rejects out of the Star Wars Xmas special

  • Comment 48, posted at 14.11.16 14:51:33 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • Just food for thought and some perspective perhaps: the players looked clueless and out of their depth, the opposition were fitter with better skills. The defense was absolutely woeful and the whole forward pack were bossed around not just the loosies. The backline didnt seem to have a clue on attack but played open gates on defense. Nope im not referring to the Boks but the Lions in the Super rugby final coached by the man most believe should be the Bok coach, same defensive coach thats with the Boks now and the best skills coach in the country according to many. So whats my point…perhaps laying all the blame for everything on one guy is going a bit over the top

  • Comment 49, posted at 14.11.16 14:57:32 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 49) : Look, I will probably get lynched for this and have a mob on my tail, but I think the Lion’s success is because of their team spirit, not necessary skill. They play for each other and for their coach. That makes a huge difference, where on saterday, it really did not look like any of the Bok players wanted to be there.

  • Comment 50, posted at 14.11.16 15:01:17 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 50) : Cant argue that about the Boks on Saturday. But then did the Lions not have any team spirit for want to play for their coach in that final? Dont get me wrong i think AC has/is making errors…but the players seem to be more interested in self preservation and being able to play for the next paycheque than actually putting their body on the line for the win.

  • Comment 51, posted at 14.11.16 15:06:09 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 51) : I think that Ackerman and his team still has some tactical growing to do. For all those shouting for so called running rugby, there is a time and place for everything. Sometimes having playing a ,ore pragmatic style of rugby can reap so much more that just trying to play champagne rugby from the first minute. If you have a coach and a captain than inspires you and make you feel like you are a part of something greater than yourself, then the next paycheck does not matter. At the moment the coach is blaming his players and the captain doesn’t give a flying f*ck, because he is gone in two games time in any case. So why would any of those players be giving their best? I for sure wouldn’t have…

  • Comment 52, posted at 14.11.16 15:14:22 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 52) : Think you on the right track there. Everything is just so disjointed. I just wonder how things would be different had they only taken local players on tour which they could have had in camp for say 2-3 weeks in SA all getting onto the same page. Then because its their off season and they perhaps arent the ‘big name’ they would be pushing hard each minute of every game, not saving themselves so they can play the club game in a couple weeks. Appoint a local chap to captain them that isnt about to retire and then perhaps the guys would buy into something. At the moment its just a colossal f*ck up. The tour needs to just end and 2016 written off.

  • Comment 53, posted at 14.11.16 15:21:46 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 53) : So you go with something like:
    1. Beast 2. Marx 3. Adriaanse 4. Etzebeth 5. PSDT 6. DuPreez 7. Cassiem 8. Carr 9. De Klerk 10.Lambie/DuPreez 11. Ulengo 12. van Rensburg 13. Venter 14. De Allende 15. Combrinck…

  • Comment 54, posted at 14.11.16 15:28:03 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 53) : I believe that there should be a mandate on how many overseas based players are allowed in the team. Maybe something similar to what the ozzies have. We have to face reality and know that our rand cant hold a candle next to the likes of the pound euro and yen. But maybe put a amount of caps down as criteria, because we need guys like Bismarck and Frans Steyn. That would keep dedicated players in the country and the Bok jersey until they have at least 50 Bok caps or so. But yeah, at least 70% of the team should be local and the captain should also be a local captain. I’m also again going to say, that I think Chillieboy should be the Bok captain and hooker.

  • Comment 55, posted at 14.11.16 15:33:47 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 55) : too much smoke there son

  • Comment 56, posted at 14.11.16 15:36:59 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 55) : I truly do get the economic situation and thus relating to guys playing overseas, but then let them go make a good living and dont include them. England dont even include guys playing in France. Including foreign based guys only adds to the disjointed nature of things…a factor coaches before Heyneke Meyer didnt have to worry about. Just think that a lot of local players bust their ass at a camp for 2 weeks only for the foreign guys to rock up a couple days before and start the test. And we wonder why it looks disjointed and they all on a different page.

  • Comment 57, posted at 14.11.16 15:37:14 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 57) : I get what you say. And I’m all for it, but coaches before HM didn’t really have to worry about players in their early 20′s leaving, normally it was only the players in the latter years of their career that left.

  • Comment 58, posted at 14.11.16 15:41:50 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • I view a coach like any Manager at any company. As a Manager you are tasked with ensuring your staff compliment (team) hits their KPI’s (win ratio). If at the end of the day the manager hand picked the staff, developed the systems to hit KPI’s and you are still not reaching them then you’re going to land up losing your job. On that premise I believe AC has got to go. No, not everything is his fault but he has control of enough variables to have saved himself by now. He has not shown any reason why we should have faith in him. To continue hoping our manager finally get things running correctly will probably be to the detriment of the business. He has been given more backing than many coaches back in the 2000-2003 Bok bad days, it’s time he produces some results.

  • Comment 59, posted at 14.11.16 15:42:46 by Hulk Reply

    HulkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @KingRiaan (Comment 58) : Yup indeed, this is a new cluster f*ck that AC has to deal with and i can imagine how tricky it is. It something the top 3 countries in the world dont really have to contend with- NZ (no), Eng (no), Oz (to a slight extent)…perhaps that tells a tale

  • Comment 60, posted at 14.11.16 15:51:16 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • I won’t back Allister seeing out his tenure, but I must warn you that unless we see structural change and enforce a massive change in players’ attitudes and priorities, nothing will change if/when we fire him.

  • Comment 61, posted at 14.11.16 15:54:13 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @Hulk (Comment 59) : You do make a valid point. But in that scenario very often employees would lose their jobs before the manager. So perhaps thats what is needed and based on the performance on Saturday there should be about 20 players out of contract

  • Comment 62, posted at 14.11.16 15:55:50 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 60) : Yeah but those three countries don’t have to deal with a joke of a currency. It is easy for them to hold on to the players because they are being well looked after money wise.

  • Comment 63, posted at 14.11.16 15:56:07 by KingRiaan Reply

    KingRiaanTeam captain
     
  • @The hound (Comment 2) : Actually nowhere does Rob say Mark Antony knifed Ceasar. He is also 100% acurate in saying Mark Antony in act 3 scene 2 made that speech about burying Ceasar. Friends Romans countrymen lend me your ears…Maybe you should brush up first?

  • Comment 64, posted at 14.11.16 15:57:39 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 61) : Im sure i said the same thing when all and sundry want Heyneke Meyer not only fired but lynched…i said all well and good to get rid of him but then what. People said international coaches would flood in, Wynand Claasens even said AC would be better. Well we got AC…and now we want him fired so i ask again, and then what??

  • Comment 65, posted at 14.11.16 15:58:21 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @KingRiaan (Comment 63) : Indeed. But the point i was making is that its not a factor any of those coaches have to consider

  • Comment 66, posted at 14.11.16 15:59:34 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 61) : So where does that need to happen? At SARU level? Because it won’t be the players. At the moment anyone with a little talent has a shot at some quick money overseas and I don’t see them giving that up. I have also thought about this and I am curious as to everyone’s thoughts on how (IF) it should be handled by the governing bodies?

  • Comment 67, posted at 14.11.16 16:04:44 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 62) : Agreed but AC has gone and told the media that he has everything he needs. He also keeps back the same players that keep letting him down. If he was harsh and dropped players when they were not performing and selected new players who are producing at domestic level I’d say its the players and AC is doing what he can. But he isn’t doing that. He is backing the same guys and when they fail he’s going to the media and blaming them. That’s not on. This morning I was not blaming AC totally but throughout my argument with myself as to why it’s not his fault I came to the conclusion that I feel that it is in fact his fault.

    I was never a big supporter of PdV but at least he knew when he was in over his head and knew to swallow his pride and get back the players who he knew could continue to take the Boks forward.

  • Comment 68, posted at 14.11.16 16:05:55 by Hulk Reply

    HulkSuper Rugby player
     
  • In the papers AC states that heads will roll. Now he will have to make good on than or lose all credibility. He also has to make 100% sure it’s the correct heads.

  • Comment 69, posted at 14.11.16 16:09:30 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 65) : Granted at this point if we are to send AC away, you are right who do we appoint? Any suggestions anyone, should no other international coach apply for the position. Who within the SARU structures could do the job whilst we find a full time replacement?

  • Comment 70, posted at 14.11.16 16:10:58 by Hulk Reply

    HulkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Hulk (Comment 68) : Yes look as ive said AC has/is making mistakes. I just think the players arent doing him any favours. He has shown faith in them and they have basically shown him the finger. And fact is he isnt wrong about the individual errors on Saturday. He may be wrong about other stuff but thats bang on. I think he needs to get through these next 2 games quickly and then re-assess going into 2017 and im convinced he needs to cut the foreign contingent. If he doesnt we will be about 8th in the World next Dec.

  • Comment 71, posted at 14.11.16 16:12:36 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 69) : Great! Heads should roll, but that should have been the case after the Ireland series.

  • Comment 72, posted at 14.11.16 16:13:03 by Hulk Reply

    HulkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Hulk (Comment 70) : Ya look if there are a couple quality international coaches that come out and say they are keen then by all means let the broom sweep this lot away…but im yet to see that happen

  • Comment 73, posted at 14.11.16 16:13:49 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 71) : Got to agree. We should draw a line in the sand and say no foreign based players. Those that are currently foreign are eligible if we have no other options however any contract extended or signed after 14 November 2016 are not eligible no matter what.

    I would have that include those who sign Japaneses contracts for CC but return for SR. Those players can be selected for June Internationals as they will be part of SR but are not eligible for RC or EOYT.

  • Comment 74, posted at 14.11.16 16:19:42 by Hulk Reply

    HulkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Hulk (Comment 74) : Im 100% behind that idea

  • Comment 75, posted at 14.11.16 16:21:22 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 75) : So you are presuming all the other countries will do the same, they won’t and we will be playing with Romania,Urugay,Zimbabwe and Kenya.
    While more and more of our guys turn out for Scotland think have four there now,Ireland,England and probably Japan.

  • Comment 76, posted at 14.11.16 16:32:28 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 75) : OK that’s 2 of us now if you have AC email we can send that idea to him and Vou La we have saved SA Rugby :cool:

  • Comment 77, posted at 14.11.16 16:32:59 by Hulk Reply

    HulkSuper Rugby player
     
  • There’s so much talk of how we can’t compete with the pound, euro or yen and that’s a given. But my question is just how are these players earning in SA vs oversees? What are they playing the sport for, to become billionaires? Is it such a bad living to play rugby and stay in SA? Let’s go the NZ route, you go oversees you don’t play for the boks, then maybe we’ll see some commitment

  • Comment 78, posted at 14.11.16 16:51:14 by Sbu13 Reply

    Under 19 player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 61) : Are attitudes changed by enforcement or by inspirational leadership? Is passion fuled by monetary reward or inspirational leadership?

  • Comment 79, posted at 14.11.16 17:24:43 by Julesgr8ter Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • You cannot go into an international without a specialist ‘fetcher’/ruck irritation, simple as. Kwagga should have played. As for our journo’s ratings, giving Warren Whiteley 3/10 when the English press gave him 7/10. He is the one that created Goosen’s try. Just because he doesn’t weigh 120kg and run into opposition doesn’t mean he is kak. In fact, he is probably the only genuine leader on the field currently. The future looks bright if SA can retain our younger players. Imagine a team like this;

    1) Thomas du Toit
    2) Marx
    3) Koch
    4) PSDT
    5) RG Snyman
    6) CJ Vellerman
    7) Doop
    8) Whiteley (Capt)
    9) Van Zyl
    10) Pollard
    11) Combrinck
    12) Ruan
    13) Venter
    14) Ulengo
    15) Gelant

  • Comment 80, posted at 14.11.16 17:39:37 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • Read UK journo ratings; https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/nov/12/england-south-africa-player-ratings-twickenham

    I always prefer to read the oppositions journalist ratings as they usually battle to find positives in the opposition.

  • Comment 81, posted at 14.11.16 17:46:29 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 80) : Aren’t You from schoolboy rugby blog?

  • Comment 82, posted at 14.11.16 17:57:13 by schrodingers cat Reply

    schrodingers catCurrie Cup player
     
  • @schrodingers cat (Comment 82) : yep, bit been here on and off for years.

  • Comment 83, posted at 14.11.16 18:01:14 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • Guys what about Jan Serfontein.Where is that guy …is he still alive..Iam still waiting for him and Swanepoel to rip the world apart.

  • Comment 84, posted at 14.11.16 18:02:57 by schrodingers cat Reply

    schrodingers catCurrie Cup player
     
  • @schrodingers cat (Comment 82) : Rob usually dislikes my pro schools & pro Glenwood stance, but his alma mater now has our coach so maybe he’ll forgive me ????

  • Comment 85, posted at 14.11.16 18:03:41 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • I’m not an AC apologist although I “voted” for giving him a chance, especially when he picked a number of in form Lions players in his squad.

    But it has become clear to me that the Lions game plan and their relative success has become a monkey on his back and everytime it is brought up by reporters he gets all antsy.

    I think he is so concerned about establishing his style for the Boks as opposed to following the trend the Lions set that he has totally lost his way and is now falling back to familiar territory.

    After the rugby indaba he was quoted as saying: “So we’ll take bits and pieces of what can work, and what fits the profile of our players, and then look to implement that.”

    This “bits and pieces” rugby is what we are currently seeing and it is confusing the players and the public.

    Even the British press picked up on it.

    Quote:
    Sir Ian McGeechan believes that England had tactical clarity whereas South Africa were tactically confused.

    ‘England were helped by the Boks’ static defence in their first two channels. South Africa looked like they wanted to play a conservative game, and they did it well in the first 20 minutes. But they would pin England back, and then not compete for lineout ball. That made no sense.

    ‘Rudy Paige at scrumhalf also suggested that the Boks might be aiming for a quicker, wider game but it never materialised. They looked like a team who did not quite know how they wanted to play.’
    End quote

  • Comment 86, posted at 14.11.16 18:05:35 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 85) : Is it Affies or Monnas that glenwood aren’t playing next year??and why did they end the fixture?

  • Comment 87, posted at 14.11.16 18:09:06 by schrodingers cat Reply

    schrodingers catCurrie Cup player
     
  • @schrodingers cat (Comment 87) : Not playing Affies. I don’t know the reasons but plenty speculation about too much niggle to AFFIES parents not liking to host Glenwood boys etc. I don’t know the official stance from both schools. Fixture replaced with Waterkloof…

  • Comment 88, posted at 14.11.16 18:24:13 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • Is Akker vd Merwe still at the Lions or has he moved to France?
    If he is still at the Lions I would pick him over all the current Bok hookers! Basics is better than all of them (except Strauss but he’s retiring) and I think he will also out play them all!

  • Comment 89, posted at 14.11.16 18:27:02 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 89) : I agree. Also Tecklenburg needs a chance…silent assassin!

  • Comment 90, posted at 14.11.16 18:28:59 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 88) : @schrodingers cat (Comment 87) : Affies parents probably could not understand what the English boys from Durbs said so they don’t like to host them?!

  • Comment 91, posted at 14.11.16 18:32:13 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 91) : @Grasshopper (Comment 88) : @schrodingers cat (Comment 87) : sorry very immature of me but I just could not help it!!!

  • Comment 92, posted at 14.11.16 18:33:30 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
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  • @JD (Comment 91) : haha, maybe but Glenwood has a large Afrikaans group of pupils, maybe up to 200 of which most play rugby. There was talk of issues with other boys & languages. But that is speculation.

  • Comment 93, posted at 14.11.16 18:35:09 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 93) : ja will probably never know the real reasons. Pity if games between schools is ruined by “outside” factors.

  • Comment 94, posted at 14.11.16 18:59:45 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
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  • @Grasshopper (Comment 88) : Waterkloof should be easy for you guys though.I wouldve liked seeing a Eg jansen -Glenwood fixture rather.

  • Comment 95, posted at 14.11.16 19:54:49 by schrodingers cat Reply

    schrodingers catCurrie Cup player
     
  • @schrodingers cat (Comment 95) : we normally play EG at Kearsney Festival but yes maybe a better match.

  • Comment 96, posted at 14.11.16 19:57:10 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @JD (Comment 91) : Hahahahahah ja they are serious about there school rugby up there,sometimes too seriuos

  • Comment 97, posted at 14.11.16 19:57:31 by schrodingers cat Reply

    schrodingers catCurrie Cup player
     
  • @JD (Comment 89) : Akker only played in France during the CC last year. Still contracted to the Lions next year. Unfortunately his lineout work is not up to standard, which is why he doesn’t get too many starts

  • Comment 98, posted at 14.11.16 20:04:54 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Baylion (Comment 98) : I mean how hard can it be to put up a target at home and throw at it. Or a ring to throw through. Then someone in the team can move the ring up and down to simulate a jumper. 100 throws a day minimum!! I bet his throw in work will improve…

  • Comment 99, posted at 14.11.16 20:34:39 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Baylion (Comment 98) : did not look bad at all whilst playing for the Barbarians!?

  • Comment 100, posted at 14.11.16 20:36:32 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 99) : must agree with you on that! Only way to improve is to practice!!! Hours and hours of practice!!!

  • Comment 101, posted at 14.11.16 20:38:58 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 100) : Against the Boks his lineout work wasn’t good. Didn’t watch the other games. His open play was electric

  • Comment 102, posted at 14.11.16 20:39:26 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @schrodingers cat (Comment 97) : ja problem parents not problem kids ;-)

  • Comment 103, posted at 14.11.16 20:39:55 by JD Reply
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    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @Baylion (Comment 102) : watched the last game and his lineouts was not to bad.

  • Comment 104, posted at 14.11.16 20:43:03 by JD Reply
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    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 99) : :smile:
    That’s like saying anyone can become a toplevel dart player, snooker player or golfer, with enough practice.

    But even with practice some are still just better than the rest.

    Akker’s open play benefits from the fact that he used to be a scrummie at school, just as Marx benefits from having been a #8. And Whiteley and Kriel from having been backline players

  • Comment 105, posted at 14.11.16 20:46:06 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @JD (Comment 104) : Didn’t see the last game against Munster but have watched him the last three years in Currie Cup and Super Rugby

  • Comment 106, posted at 14.11.16 20:47:20 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Baylion (Comment 105) : of course it’s a skill that some are better than others at. I watched a documentary on Rory Best the Irish hooker, he had a ring in his barn he would throw at for hours and hours. I remember him being an excellent lineout thrower. As with Jonny Wilkinson, kicked at poles all day long. As a professional this practice should be a given.

  • Comment 107, posted at 14.11.16 20:53:41 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 107) : That’s true. Gary Player used to wear out the grooves on his sand wedge within a year practicing bunker shots.

    Look I like Akker, I think he’s a great asset to the Lions but at the moment he is an impact player rather than a starter

  • Comment 108, posted at 14.11.16 21:07:35 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Baylion (Comment 108) : sorry but I have to disagree about him being only an impact player.
    Think Deans had him starting in most if not all the Barbarians games so clearly he sees Akker as a starting player.
    Think the best thing Akker can do is to move to another team where he can get out under the “Marx shadow” and get a starting spot.

  • Comment 109, posted at 14.11.16 22:45:16 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @Baylion (Comment 108) : @Grasshopper (Comment 107) : practice can make an average player a good player and without practice a top talented player will be a failure.
    Quick example is Morne Steyn. When he arrived at the Bulls his kicking (especially goal kicking) was what kept him out of the starting team as he was not a “reliable” kicker. Fast forward a couple of years and not with magic but with lots of practice his reliability as a kicker not only made him a Bok but kept him in the Bok team for a good couple of years!
    Personally I’d take an average player that’s willing to practice and work hard over a talented player that’s “lazy” and does not practice enough anyday!

  • Comment 110, posted at 14.11.16 22:58:44 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 109) :The one thing that is certain is Akker is not going to be happy playing behind Marx and Robbie Coetzee,and Coetzee also won’t be happy being number 3 in line.
    Sharks should strike now to secure the services of either of these two fantastic hookers,I personally don’t think there is much between the three of them.

  • Comment 111, posted at 15.11.16 07:37:04 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • @JD (Comment 110) : Interesting thing about Morne Steyn is that when he arrived at the Bulls he was very much a running flyhalf with a good step and pass etc. He sat on the bench as Hougaard’s kicking was better. So Morne shelved the running game and only worked on kicking and well we know the rest of the story. Its that all round balance that we seem to be getting wrong in SA

  • Comment 112, posted at 15.11.16 07:54:38 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 111) : Will be interesting to see who RDP goes with as his starting no.2…Chilliboy or Marais.

  • Comment 113, posted at 15.11.16 07:55:43 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • Well if I were Coetzee I would get rid of Mzwandile who is basically of no use now they appointed Franco and the fact that they appointed Franco at all is a scathing inditement of his abilities or lack thereof. Get rid if the stick and get Corne Krige in as consultant for the flankers and loosies. Then get a proper consultant to train the pivots.

  • Comment 114, posted at 15.11.16 08:30:01 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @The hound (Comment 111) : I fully agree with you

  • Comment 115, posted at 15.11.16 08:30:51 by benji Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Team captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 113) : Currently I’m more interested in if RDP junior wants to commit long term to WP or join his bro’s in Durban or hop on a plane oversees, seeing that WP is in a bit of trouble financially, wouldn’t bet any money on it though. I think he did very well for the Barbarians.

    Coming back to RDP sernior, I hope he goes with Chilli.

  • Comment 116, posted at 15.11.16 08:35:08 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @JD (Comment 110) : JD thats the real problem in SA and I have been saying it fir a long time, thete is no professional rugby culture, just cause you get paid does not make it so,prime example look at all Jakes boys at Montpellier,they all look and play like machines now, hete in SA and at the sharks they were not conditioned,in France you get paid well but you are expected to be at a certain level or go bye bye

  • Comment 117, posted at 15.11.16 08:36:26 by benji Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 114) : Yeah but let me tell you in advance, some people will say Stick is there to ‘learn’ and be ‘nurtured’ for the ‘future’.

    That’s no place to experiment with people who are incompetent to do their job to the level that is required there, same goes for AC. Krige not a bad idea, but what is he up to these days? I would rather get Plumtree in, if he is interested at all.

  • Comment 118, posted at 15.11.16 08:40:20 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Quintin (Comment 116) : Didnt he just sign another deal with WP? I know contracts in SA arent worth the paper they on but yeh. Doubt he will come to Durbs with Lambie here.

  • Comment 119, posted at 15.11.16 08:42:00 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @benji (Comment 117) : Agree with you on that. We have very few true professionals in SA although they get paid to be such. Same can be said of the Admin and coaching staff i guess.

  • Comment 120, posted at 15.11.16 08:44:31 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • I blame the coach now as well – why continue with a captain that is not committed…why continuously pick out of form players…

  • Comment 121, posted at 15.11.16 09:59:32 by DuToit04 Reply

    DuToit04Currie Cup player
     
  • @DuToit04 (Comment 121) : Which players are in form?

  • Comment 122, posted at 15.11.16 10:10:23 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 112) : yes 100% correct. Seems as if SA have an “either or” attitude and often can’t find a balance!

  • Comment 123, posted at 15.11.16 10:29:27 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 122) : If we take the last month or so then the ‘in form’ team would look a bit like: 1. Beast (had a god Eng game) 2. Van Der Merwe (was good for Baabaas) 3. Adriaanse (Good vs Baabaas) 4. ?? 5. ?? 6. ?? 7. Alberts (Pretty good vs Eng) 8. ?? 9. De Klerk ( decent vs Eng) 10. Goosen (good vs Eng) 11. Ulengo (Good vs Baabaas) 12. Van Rensburg (good vs Baa baas) 13. ?? 14. ?? 15. Le Roux (good vs Eng)…leaves the team a bit short

  • Comment 124, posted at 15.11.16 10:30:35 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @benji (Comment 117) : @SheldonK (Comment 120) : yes unfortunately rugby in SA is only professional in name! Not only llayers can be blamed as the structures running the unions (boards and presidents) are also not nearly professional!

  • Comment 125, posted at 15.11.16 10:36:36 by JD Reply
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    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @JD (Comment 125) : To me the only true professionals in South African rugby are the agents.They constantly bamboozle the Unions by negotiating unrealistic contracts.The players in turn realise that they have contracts that have the union by the balls,and whether they ,play or on the bench or sit out the game they still get paid.
    Best of all Union pays full wage and all costs in rehab, even if you have yet to put a foot on the playing field,beforeyou broke down ,ask Tarzan Potgieter.
    Worst culprits are the fans we are desperate for the union to sign long term contracts for young players that have hardly played a game.
    The kids 20 /21 has a three year contract and if he wants he can spend 18 months of it in rehab.His agent also negotiated a clause that says he can play in Japan in the off season.
    So where is the hunger, when everything is taken care of.

  • Comment 126, posted at 15.11.16 10:49:46 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • @JD (Comment 125) : And look what happened when Jake White wanted the players to ‘work’ 9-5…

  • Comment 127, posted at 15.11.16 10:49:52 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 126) : Reason for that is you have a fully professional agent dealing with an amateur at the unions…is it any wonder who comes out with the best deal

  • Comment 128, posted at 15.11.16 10:51:29 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 93) : Maybe the Affies parents couldnt understand the Afrikaans that the Afrikaans guys were talking. Back in the day Afrikaans guys from Durban and Pmb spoke really good English.

  • Comment 129, posted at 15.11.16 10:58:47 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 85) : Any idea what Sean Erasmus will be doing next year?

  • Comment 130, posted at 15.11.16 10:59:49 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 130) : There were rumours of him getting involved at WP but with this financial mess im not sure. Someone suggested he take over the junior Boks but doubt he will.

  • Comment 131, posted at 15.11.16 11:01:58 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 131) : Yep that ties in with what I last heard.

  • Comment 132, posted at 15.11.16 11:18:48 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 132) : He is a good coach but like Johan Ackermann i feel he does best when he is given time to establish structures and gain some continuity. He , like Ackermann, were less successful when tasked with a limited player contact time job such as the Sa u18 academy side and SA A sides.

  • Comment 133, posted at 15.11.16 11:26:03 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 126) : Sharks never paid Potgieter a dime.

  • Comment 134, posted at 15.11.16 11:32:58 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 133) : People go on and on about Ackerman,but I think this year will be his acid test.
    He was lucky he inherited a squad from John Mitchell that had been pared down and disciplined.He had no stars, just a bunch of serious journey men that nobody else wanted.He and Swys turned that squad into a team.They had the best motivation nobody gave a shit about the team and the only person who went to their games was Jimmy Abott.
    This year more than half that squad are now super stars, and with super stardom comes attitude,and expectations.
    Maybe he is the man,but we certainly will see if he is this year.

  • Comment 135, posted at 15.11.16 11:38:21 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 134) : Oh so did he pay for his own rehab then, that must have been a couple of hundred thousands

  • Comment 136, posted at 15.11.16 11:39:59 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 135) : No you do make a good point. His man management skills will definitely be tested this next year. Boks arent going to be as willing to just get rotated out and will want to start. Teams will have watched their games vs the Hurricanes and will target those areas. I still believe he is a good coach but he will be tested this next year as he was in the CC, he needs to evolve their play from just all out run from everywhere attack.

  • Comment 137, posted at 15.11.16 11:42:33 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 135) : Ackermann took very few of JM’s players over

    The only players currently left are:
    Andries Coetzee
    Ruan Combrinck
    Ross Cronje
    Ruan Dreyer
    Elton Jantjies
    Jaco Kriel
    Lionel Mapoe
    Derick Minnie
    Anthony Volmink
    Warren Whiteley

    While

    Michael Bondesio retired in 2014 after injuries
    Alwyn Hollenbach retired in 2015 after injuries
    JC Janse van Rensburg left in 2013 after the knock out games
    Hendrik Roodt left in 2013 after the knock out games
    Franco van der Merwe left in 2014
    Deon van Rensburg retired in 2014

    In 2013 while Ackers and Swys were building the squad a number of players were out on loan – Jantjies (Stormers), Mapoe (Bulls) Franco (Sharks) and Coetzee (Sharks)

    Some tend to underrate Ackers as a coach but he made a bits and pieces SA A side competitive within two weeks – SA A lead the Saxons 26-8 when their wheels came off in the second half to lose 26-29

  • Comment 138, posted at 15.11.16 12:21:45 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Baylion (Comment 138) : Do you believe Ackermann will be as successful bearing in mind the limited contact time he would have with the players at Bok level, including basically zero contact with the foreign players. I still believe his strength lies in having that daily contact with players in structures he was able to help set up and maintain daily.

  • Comment 139, posted at 15.11.16 12:39:57 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 139) : I believe he can be

    Keep in mind that a Bok coach can select from all the available players and can select players whom he believes will fall in with his vision and game plan. and we have enoughgood players in the country who can and want to play more expansive rugby, especially now that all the franchises are moving in that direction.

    This is where Allister Coetzee is falling down, I think. He selected a lot of Lions players and then promptly tried to put them in boxes. And the more the media asked him about the Lions game plan the more upset he became and the more he crept into his shell, going back to what is familiar.

    As to the foreign players, Ackers has already gone public that he believes Boks must ply their trade in SA (play Super Rugby)

  • Comment 140, posted at 15.11.16 12:54:10 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 130) : Not sure, as far as I am aware he will be at Boishaai again. I would love him to coach the Under20′s though

  • Comment 141, posted at 15.11.16 12:59:13 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Baylion (Comment 140) : I do get your point on AC and his game plan although i still think way to much emphasis is put on a ‘game plan’. My biggest gripe with AC is that he doesnt pick combos that gel well and as a result things look disjointed. I truly believe if Ackermann is to be a successful Bok coach he first needs to be an assistant Bok coach so to fully understand the coaching constraints he has as compared to what he has at franchise level. You make reference to all the sa franchises trying to move in the same direction, which is a good step i believe, but what about the foreign contingent then? Would you leave them out? As they wouldnt be on the same ‘game plan’ page nor would they be at the same stage of their conditioning.

  • Comment 142, posted at 15.11.16 13:00:19 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 141) : Im interested to see what Glenwood can produce this next year under Derek Heiberg…especially with Mike Volwes now at the Sharks.

  • Comment 143, posted at 15.11.16 13:01:29 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 143) : Yep, but Jeremy McLaren will be Head Coach I believe. They have a very good squad with good experience, maybe lacking at prop. I believe Jeremy is an awesome coach and person too.Big game vs Boishaai at Wilderklawer set up too.

  • Comment 144, posted at 15.11.16 13:13:45 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 142) : I find the opinion here on foreign based players quite laughable.Firstly you need to be an excellent player with either major potential or credentials to get a European contract.Secondly if we can’t afford the player then we sure as hell can’t afford the European coaches.So we have our best players being coached by the best coaches in the world, and we want to exclude them all from the Boks.
    If the local players and coaches were setting the world alight ala the AB’s I would agree, but they are definitely not.

  • Comment 145, posted at 15.11.16 13:15:42 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 144) : Interesting as ive heard Derek likes being in charge. Will see how it develops. Must be honest im glad they moving away from Dames as i wasnt a fan of the teams he produced.

  • Comment 146, posted at 15.11.16 13:17:06 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 146) : Agreed, I think things got stale with Rudi, he had been there over 10 years and they needed fresh ideas. Jeremy might be Director of Rugby and Derek the coach, not sure but they will have to work together. I hope their game plan changes a bit as I feel it was a bit too structured at times. A schoolboy level they should be able to use their natural creativity. Rudi going to PBHS is great for them as they need more structure there.

  • Comment 147, posted at 15.11.16 13:22:02 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @The hound (Comment 145) : The argument is not that the foreign players arent good, they are. Thats not the reason for the argument. The reason i believe they should be excluded is based on the current disjointed nature of the team. The foreign players play to different game plans, at a different time of the year and thus they are on a very different wavelength to those playing in super rugby in SA. The foreign players could not attend any training camps held in SA and thus also have very little contact time with the coaches and fellow players. So for the sole purpose of getting a unified team on the same page and having as much contact time and uniformity as possible i say exclude the foreign players. The local players spent 2 weeks training hard in SA as a group only for the foreign guys to join and make the starting side a couple days before the England test…and we are surprised things look disjointed and there is no passion and unity…are we really surprised?

  • Comment 148, posted at 15.11.16 13:23:02 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 147) : Yeh Rudi will be good for PBHS as they do need a bit more professionalism in their rugby even though they try their best to say they dont. I agree with you about the structure in schoolboy rugby, they need to play heads up rugby at that age and get used to making decisions under pressure.

  • Comment 149, posted at 15.11.16 13:25:50 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 148) : Agree with you and it also shows commitment to SA rugby by staying in SA. Those who have left cannot have their cake and eat it. I mean 300 plus professional players in Europe back in SA would seriously improve the local provincial depth. These players are either overseas to make a quick buck or trying to qualify to play for another country. Start with Whiteley as the captain, just for the next 3 years. He isn’t the best No8 in the world but he is certainly one of the better leaders out there. He can take a young squad and mould them for the next 3 years…

  • Comment 150, posted at 15.11.16 13:29:28 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 142) : One should maybe call it “predominant style of play” as game plans can change from game to game depending on opposition, conditions, etc.

  • Comment 151, posted at 15.11.16 13:40:15 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Baylion (Comment 151) : I dont think even that to be honest. We need to play heads up rugby, play the situation not the chalkboard. Yes there is a ‘game plan’ in so far as identifying where the opposition has weaknesses that can be exploited but this idea of a kicking game or running game is such rubbish. Players need to have the physical skills and mental ability to play what they are faced with in any condition. The SA public are so concerned about a ‘game plan’ and which one that i fear the players now share those same concerns.

  • Comment 152, posted at 15.11.16 13:46:36 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 148) : I just look at one player Sonny Bill Williams,he has in the last 10 years won two Rugby League World Cups ,Two rugby union World Cups, two Super rugby titles, the third person, after Peter Ryan and Brad Thorn, to have won both an NRL and Super Rugby titles.one of only twenty dual Rugby World Cup winners. and in one season he wasrunner-up in the 2009-10 European Challenge Cup.
    In between he played 7′s and had 7 Professional Boxing fights.
    Point is he was able to not only swop codes and countries but every team ,he played for won what ever it is that they were playing for.
    Is he such a freak or is it because the only thing took with him was fitness and ability.Something you would expect every Springbok rugby player to have.
    If a guy comes into the team unprepared ,or unfit it is the selectors fault who hired him.
    Cannot believe that a guy like Duanne Vermullen needs to be specially prepared to put on the Bok jersey,ther is nothing about playing rugby that Proudfoot or Coetzee could ever teach him.

  • Comment 153, posted at 15.11.16 14:00:15 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 153) : Using your SWB example…was he not playing rugby fulltime in NZ prior to being picked for the ABs? And why did they want him playing in NZ as opposed to France, because then he would be on the same page and able to interact with team mates at training camps etc. The players ability is not in question as i have said. Its all about creating cohesion and unity.

  • Comment 154, posted at 15.11.16 14:14:04 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 153) : I tend to agree, some teams have too many cooks in the kitchen. I mean a kicking coach, defence coach, attacking coach, scrum coach, hooker coach, lock coach, flank coach, centre coach etc…..it’s analysis paralysis where there is too much data. I really do feel these massive entourages of coaching teams needs to go. There should be two coaches, that’s it. The players as professionals need to ensure they are fit and ready or working to a gym/fitness program set out by the coaches. The captain then needs to be the coaches voice on the field. You know what they say, KISS – Keep it simple stupid. Basics must be done right, the rest will follow…

  • Comment 155, posted at 15.11.16 14:17:06 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 155) : There should be a Head coach and an assistant coach. Then there needs to be a conditioning team to ensure correct gym/stength/cardio training and rehab…so whether thats 1 or more people depends on their expertise. There will be staff such as a manager, video/stats tech etc but those also ancillary roles.

  • Comment 156, posted at 15.11.16 14:22:19 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 155) : To me the head coaches job is to pick a team that works together, his job is to turn out a unit, it is not about coaching skills, you expect any one in a Bok jersey to at least be fit enough and a skilled enough to play rugby.
    Coach is there to do whatever is needed to turn 15 players into 1.
    It all starts with the selection, you can’t force incompatible players to gell,it doesn’t work.You can’t select individuals you need to select combinations.Select them for their abilty to play together, and to play together in the full15.Agood coach like Kitch Christie was a master of that,Alistar for what ever reason, displays total ignorance of that.
    Sonny Bill’s best attribute is that he fits in seamlessly in any environment and raises everyone up to his level.

  • Comment 157, posted at 15.11.16 14:28:56 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • http://www.supersport.com/cricket/sa-team/news/161115/Faf_incredibly_happy_after_victory

    Interesting interview with Faf after the Proteas won the series against the Aussies.

    Q – The change in your team culture you have referred to, starting afresh. How did that come about?

    A – “A few of us decided we wanted to go in a different direction as a team. We felt we were a little bit in comfort zones and weren’t challenging each other enough, so we were real honest in the assessment of where we want to go as a team. As a captain you have to lead that. You have to challenge guys daily if they’re not up to where you want them to be. The culture has allowed us to speak freely in that environment. When guys are not bringing their part of the bargain we can challenge them and they can put their egos aside and try and be better for the team. That’s made a massive difference to us as a team. The last four or five months has been amazing and it has to be down to what we’re doing away from the cricket field.”

  • Comment 158, posted at 15.11.16 15:08:57 by Bump Reply

    BumpSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Bump (Comment 158) : He is saying the right things and i do believe he is a good captain. But i think lets hold the praise till results dont exactly go our way…always easier to captain when you winning.

  • Comment 159, posted at 15.11.16 15:16:47 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 159) : Sheldon put that winning into context,
    White wash Aussies in 3 x OD I GAMES,beat AUS IN Perth,beat Aus by an innings in Adelaide.,
    Thats kind of winning I never thought I’d see.
    The reason is that every single player in that team is there for only one reason, they are the best player for their position.
    Our 7′s team is the same.
    May be when our rugby team gets that right we will be great again.

  • Comment 160, posted at 15.11.16 15:34:21 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 160) : Dont get me wrong the wins are really good. But at the same token Aussies have been very poor. Proteas were very poor just a short time ago lest we forget. So yes well done, but before we extremely praise the brilliant leadership lets see them play someone who also plays well. And our crickets and 7s side have to be the 2 teams that choke the most when it comes to winning matches that really count. The best captains and environments get wins when something is really on the line. Again dont get me wrong its a good step forward, but ill keep the champagne on ice for a bit until we come up against a side playing well.

  • Comment 161, posted at 15.11.16 15:39:56 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 160) : In terms of our rugby…doesnt seem to be too many leaders putting their hands up and showing real leadership when the chips are down.

  • Comment 162, posted at 15.11.16 15:41:43 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 162) : Starts with the coach I am afraid,should have gone with Vermullen.
    PSDT should be the next in line, and maybe Marcel I was super impressed with the one game in charge, before he let out he was leaving and Gold threw a hissy fit and demoted him.

  • Comment 163, posted at 15.11.16 16:27:03 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 161) : Tough man to please, I see… :mrgreen:

  • Comment 164, posted at 15.11.16 17:27:55 by pastorshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Administrator
    pastorsharkCoach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 163) : With Vermuelen i think he was under big pressure to pick a local captain and thats understandable. Also Vermuelen was in terrible form at the start of the Irish series. Marcel Coetzee has been injured all year so really a non entity- he will need to play his way back into the team and then maybe. So only PSDT as a real possible option of those suggested, has he ever captained before? We saw how well a novice captain went with Beast.

  • Comment 165, posted at 16.11.16 08:04:42 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @pastorshark (Comment 164) : With the way cricket is run in this country most definitely. Also they were very poor against Bangladesh, England and every limited overs competition ever entered. So yes well done on beating an Aussie side playing terrible cricket, but ill save the champagne and medals for now…

  • Comment 166, posted at 16.11.16 08:07:08 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 161) : Every match ‘really counts’ on international level, the ones in the WC and other tournaments where they have playoff matches will come good eventually just like it did with the AB’s.

    Coming back the the Boks though I still think the major problem with the players looking like they aren’t interested or absent minded is like you said, they need leadership and something to buy into and believe in and we can say what we want about the players, it starts at the top with the coach and he’s not providing that.

  • Comment 167, posted at 16.11.16 08:07:49 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Quintin (Comment 167) : Yes it does start with the coach 100%…but it only starts with him. Yes the players may not want him to be coach or dont agree 100% with his ideas. So what..are they sulking now and throwing a little tantrum and not performing? If thats the case it really tells a tale about the mental toughness and character of our players…

  • Comment 168, posted at 16.11.16 08:29:45 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 168) : They are professionals, some of whom have played in great test matches in the past so I doubt that they are deliberately playing below their standards. Once again, mental toughness will only come if you believe in what you are doing and the direction you are going in. It starts at the coach, you agree on that, only he hasn’t started anything yet, he’s only given them reason to doubt by selecting players out of position and out of form and clearly being stuck between two different game plans, even the English media picked up the latter.

  • Comment 169, posted at 16.11.16 09:05:48 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 168) : Sheldon I repeat what Hennie le Roux said on media 24.There are not very many more ex players that I respect than Hennie

    ” When I was fortunate to play there, one of the aspects that I experienced was to receive direction from those who were either skilled at coaching or had played at the highest level,” Le Roux said.

    “When they haven’t been in that environment, it’s almost as if it doesn’t carry the same weight. I think there’s a significant lack of respect towards the South African management team, in terms of having the players’ respect and the players acknowledging when they’re being spoken to by someone who’s informed and has had the experience”
    Now you can call it which ever way you want but when a guy like that comes out and says it at least take note of it.

  • Comment 170, posted at 16.11.16 09:06:43 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 170) : Yeah look I’m not trying to take anyone on here all I’m trying to say is that there’s a reason AC doesn’t have a stacked trophy cabinet…he’s simply not good enough as a head coach, at best an assistant and there’s more than enough proof of that.

  • Comment 171, posted at 16.11.16 09:26:59 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Quintin (Comment 169) : It definitely starts with the coach and 100% he hasnt got things right. It still doesnt excuse the basic schoolboy errors and total lack of commitment from the players. To be honest they acting more like spoilt brats not getting their own way than professional players meant to inspire the young players in the country etc. @The hound (Comment 170) : The lack of respect i get. But there performances also shows they have a lack of self respect to dish up that rubbish. At the end of the day they are professionals not 10yr olds. Time to grow up…and that goes for all of SA rugby. Stop playing the blame game and do something. If the players are that unhappy then speak up…if they dont have the balls for that then shut up and perform.

  • Comment 172, posted at 16.11.16 09:30:06 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • Again, give Whiteley the captaincy. He knows from experience how to bring a team out of the doldrums. There are no other No8′s smashing the door down. Vermeulen isn’t committed to SA rugby, so not an option.

  • Comment 173, posted at 16.11.16 09:55:15 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • Dont get me wrong here- i dont think AC and co. are getting much right at the moment, other than perhaps sort of assembling decent squads, although they mess up the final selection mix. However, i dont think the players are doing themselves any justice as well. Yes the ‘game plan’ may not be exactly what they want. But its rugby, its not a complicated game and there is no excuse for some of the effort and basic errors they are making. I realistically cannot see any coaching change happening in the next year, thats the reality of it. So now its up to the players, either man up…or sulk like a baby and get hammered.

  • Comment 174, posted at 16.11.16 09:55:20 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 173) : He would be my pick. And they need to supplement his income so he stops this Japan rubbish.

  • Comment 175, posted at 16.11.16 09:56:18 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • My squad to take SA rugby forward in 2017:
    Coaches: AC, Proudfoot, Smith, Ferreira
    Props: Beast, Smith, Adriaanse, Nche, DuToit
    Hookers: Marx, Van Der Merwe, Ralapelle
    Locks: Etzebeth, PSDT, Snyman, Mostert
    Loosies: Whiteley (c), JL DuPreez, Van Der Walt, Cassiem, Notshe, Smit, Ackermann,
    Scumhalf: De Klerk, Reinach, Van Zyl
    Flyhalf: Pollard, Jantjies, Lambie, DuPreez
    Centres: Van Rensburg, Venter, Esterhuizen, Serfontein, Lee
    Wings: Combrinck, Ulengo, De Allende, Senatla, Kok
    Fullback: Kriel, Gelant, Bosch,

  • Comment 176, posted at 16.11.16 10:36:29 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 176) : some really questionable selections there, especially your coaching staff.

  • Comment 177, posted at 16.11.16 10:41:19 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli BoelieTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 174) : But that is exactly where those 2 statements come together and contradict each other in a way IMO. The coaches are messing up the selections by selecting players who are not in form or keep making mistakes over ones that are in form or players they just have a clear favoritism over(DDA), at the same time you say the players should man up and perform and it’s up to them? If the coaches selected the right players from the start that would be less of a problem don’t you agree? A part of other players not performing is seeing a guy play in another, more deserving players’ spot, it’s not helping anyone’s confidence or belief in the situation as a whole at all. To add to that even further, it’s the coaches responsibility to provide solutions for a player who is not performing, to get them back to their best. Take the Chelsea team after they ended 10th last season and compare them to when Conte took over? He got the best out of players again and lifted their confidence.

  • Comment 178, posted at 16.11.16 11:08:34 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 177) : Its based on reality as much as possible. AC isnt going anywhere. The players were a quick thumb suck, probably left a few out. And i only went with local players.

  • Comment 179, posted at 16.11.16 11:09:46 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 177) : Just needs Gary Gold to complete the Trifecta.

  • Comment 180, posted at 16.11.16 11:10:56 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @Quintin (Comment 178) : Which players are on form and based on what do you rate form? The majority of the points England scored came from errors by PSDT (SA player of th year), Francois Venter (a form centre) and Ruan Combrinck (majority of peoples choice at wing). So those are form players costing us.

  • Comment 181, posted at 16.11.16 11:12:10 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 173) : Whiteley is ineffective as a test player. Making him captain won’t fix that

  • Comment 182, posted at 16.11.16 11:12:21 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 180) : Do you really think AC is going to get fired?

  • Comment 183, posted at 16.11.16 11:12:52 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 179) : Make a good name for his biography,Alistar Coetzee on the road to nowhere.

  • Comment 184, posted at 16.11.16 11:12:56 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 182) : Captaincy alternatives??

  • Comment 185, posted at 16.11.16 11:15:15 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 183) : I never thought Brian Moelefe was going to ever be fired from Eskom either.
    No he won’t be fired but he might resign.

  • Comment 186, posted at 16.11.16 11:15:45 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 186) : Has a Bok coach ever resigned? I dont see it being likely. Hence he was there in my list. I could have said coaches- Steve Hansen, Graham Henry and Robbie Deans but thats also very unlikely.

  • Comment 187, posted at 16.11.16 11:18:03 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 187) : Heynekke Meyer and Nick Mallett both resigned

  • Comment 188, posted at 16.11.16 11:23:52 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 188) : True i guess, but only at the end of their terms not after a year. I would be very surprised to hear AC resign. I wouldnt mind if he did, although as when Meyer left i said then what?? We said then anyone would be better than Meyer…and well we got AC which even Wynand Claasens said was a good pick.

  • Comment 189, posted at 16.11.16 11:27:43 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 182) : Agree on that unfortunately.

    @SheldonK (Comment 181) : PSdT played out of position and looked off his usual game because of it, it was Venter’s 1st test match and Combrinck was injured for a while with a fractured leg and hasn’t really recaptured the form he had against Ireland . My point being it is up to the coaches to get the best of the players if they aren’t performing, there is proof of other coaches turning teams and players around to get the best out of them, why can’t AC do that? IMO he’s incapable of doing it.

    @SheldonK (Comment 189) : Meyer was at the end of his reign, it is unheard of for a Bok coach to stay on longer than the regular 4 years.

  • Comment 190, posted at 16.11.16 11:45:20 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Quintin (Comment 190) : The errors PSDT made had nothing to do with him wearing no.7…thats the basics of defense he got wrong. So yes as you say the coach needs to get the best from players but the players themselves need to take responsibility as well. Very easy just to blame someone else. And as i said it was ‘form’ players making errors. I have no problem pointing the finger at AC, but the players also need to have the finger pointed at them- although it seems the general public think the players are perfect and its none of their fault.

  • Comment 191, posted at 16.11.16 11:49:34 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 189) : Why do you keep defending AC? If SARU don’t fire him by the end of this tour, they would have used up any credibility that they had left. Which is very little as it is.

  • Comment 192, posted at 16.11.16 11:54:14 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli BoelieTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 187) : Harry Viljoen resigned

  • Comment 193, posted at 16.11.16 11:55:13 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 185) : jaaaaa, tough one. Who can you honestly say deserves a place in the team? Start there…. I don’t think there is anyone

  • Comment 194, posted at 16.11.16 11:56:20 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 192) : As far as i know he has no performance clause so fire him for what? and replace him with who? Its the same question i asked when evry man and his dog wanted Meyer gone…i said careful what you wish for and many laughed and said anyone will be better and international quality coaches will be lining up. Well we got AC. So get rid of AC and we get who??

  • Comment 195, posted at 16.11.16 11:57:11 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 193) : I guess i am mistaken on resignations, i just dont recall any resigning after a year.

  • Comment 196, posted at 16.11.16 11:57:47 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 194) : Well doesnt that tell a tale…

  • Comment 197, posted at 16.11.16 11:58:39 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 191) : What’s the cause of them making these errors then? Lack of focus? Lack of understanding? Lack of commitment? If we’ve found the problem with the players, let’s go and look at the reasons or root causes of them and see where we end up again.

  • Comment 198, posted at 16.11.16 12:08:34 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Quintin (Comment 198) : If the players go through defensive drills at practice and everyone gets it right then they get to the game and PSDT doesnt cover the pillar/post as was done at practice and has been taught since he was at school what do we do then? If players catch up and unders at practise but drop them during a game and opposition scores what do you do? Coaches may not get combinations exactly correct but there is stuff all they can do about individual player errors during a game. The players need to focus and actually give a damn…not semi jog back to cover a kick like Combrinck did. So root cause- everyone is looking to blame someone instead of looking in and taking responsibility. And thats Coaches and Players.

  • Comment 199, posted at 16.11.16 12:16:00 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 182) : That’s because they not using his skills properly. He is an attacking number 8 who can draw players and actually pass the ball properly. Name a better No8 in SA right now?

  • Comment 200, posted at 16.11.16 12:17:28 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 182) : Michael Aylwin from the Guardian gave two SA players a 7 out of 10, Alberts and guess who? Whiteley…

    Warren Whiteley, No8 7/10 Another point of resistance. Lighter on his feet than the rest of the Springbok pack – and a few of the backs. Tackled relentlessly and class for South Africa’s first try.

  • Comment 201, posted at 16.11.16 12:21:42 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 199) : I agree with you regarding we can’t just blame AC for player errors on the field but going back to our chat earlier in this thread. If players keep making those same mistakes he needs to start dropping players. The Boks and not just AC Boks have always given out of form players a free ride in the hope they regain form. We need to be harsh in our selections like the All Blacks were dropping Israel Dagg and Julian Savea. I will add that sure it’s easy to say because I agree all our players are playing poorly, but by accepting the Bok job AC suggested he could do the job with the players available to him. If he thought we were totally going to get stuffed this season he’s have started off by saying we’re a young squad, going to make mistakes etc etc, the usual expect losses jargon.

    I said earlier lets fire AC but WHO do we get in next. Didn’t look like to many people wanted the Bok job in January, doubt many more will want it now. Can’t see Robbie Deans, John Mitchell, John Plumtree, Ewan Mckenzie, Graham Henry, Jake White or even Alan Solomons gagging to sign on. Perhaps we should approach Cheeky Watson, I’m sure he’ll be interested, don’t think he’s working at the moment…

  • Comment 202, posted at 16.11.16 12:34:57 by Hulk Reply

    HulkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Hulk (Comment 202) : Look im not for 1 second saying AC is blame free, very far from it. But im also not adopting the standard SA fan approach of lets blame the coach for absolutely everything and every loss, unless the coach is a favourite of ours then he can lose and its someone else’s fault. So yes players making continuous errors should be dropped- but who are those players? The side has chopped and changed a lot this year. Also do you drop a guy after 1 error? 3 errors? etc.
    And then as you say if not AC then who? I dont see anyone in the press coming out and saying please pick me. As when Meyer left nobody was interested in the post- they probably saw the players and setup and stayed very far away.

  • Comment 203, posted at 16.11.16 12:42:35 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 195) : Ian very keen to see how Rassie and Nienaaber go at Munster,now that would be a suggestion,

  • Comment 204, posted at 16.11.16 12:44:50 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @Hulk (Comment 202) : I know most people will go huh!!! Jimmy Stonehouse maybe? He can’t do much worse than AC…

  • Comment 205, posted at 16.11.16 12:46:40 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @The hound (Comment 204) : The way Rassie left things here i cannot see him returning. I can more likely see him being coach of Ireland or actually Wales when Gatland steps aside. By all accounts Rassie has done very well with Munster- they beat the Maori All Blacks the other day

  • Comment 206, posted at 16.11.16 12:48:09 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 205) : Same argument as AC- what has he won? Nothing. He also left SA very unhappy so cant see a return- think a return as a franchise coach would be a start.

  • Comment 207, posted at 16.11.16 12:49:43 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 199) : There will always be mistakes made in games, I doubt there has ever been a game without any mistakes. I get that the coaches cannot do anything about it if players make mistakes in a game as the responsibility is on the players shoulders once he runs onto the field but you have to ask why are we consistently making these types of mistakes? In some of our other losses PSdT was our best player on the park? So was Combrinck. How do they go from one good game to a bad one? Commitment? Just not giving a damn? Surely they can’t wake up one morning and decide they aren’t giving a damn after they did previously, there has to be a reason. Never said that the players shouldn’t take some responsibility for how they play though, I’m just saying it would be much easier if you have it right at coaching level to fix our problems and instill confidence in what they’re doing, then in becomes easier for them to commit to it. We have to start at the top and then work our way down.

  • Comment 208, posted at 16.11.16 12:52:12 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Quintin (Comment 208) : You say why are the players consistently making errors- well look at the performances in Super rugby…performances week after week littered with errors. I still believe the main issue is fitness. Both mental and physical fitness. And even then sometimes errors just happen…the Boks ones are just proving very costly. The question i put forward- are the results we getting not accurate based on the player quality we currently have? What have these group of players either internationally or locally shown to suggest they should be winning against the best?

  • Comment 209, posted at 16.11.16 12:59:26 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 209) : Yes Sheldon and as I said before,the Bullarinas didnt even make SR play off,both Sharks and Netball Players got absolutely hammered in play off,so how can any player from these teams be expected to perform let alone beat NZ or other top teams

  • Comment 210, posted at 16.11.16 13:07:59 by benji Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Team captain
     
  • @benji (Comment 210) : Are we over estimating these players actual ability? Are we perhaps paying too much attention too good CC performances against other weak SA teams? Im open to any evidence to suggest these guys are actually that good…

  • Comment 211, posted at 16.11.16 13:12:35 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 211) : Lions smashing two Kiwi sides to make the SR final indicates they must have some ability ;-)

  • Comment 212, posted at 16.11.16 13:19:24 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 212) : They also took 50pts from Kiwi sides…so very much Jekyll and hyde

  • Comment 213, posted at 16.11.16 13:20:42 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 213) : Once I believe on an off day which is allowed. Making the SR final is enough indication the talent is there…

  • Comment 214, posted at 16.11.16 13:23:55 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 212) : yes the Lions but the others definitely not,just look at PSDT and Elizabeth,one man Brodie Retalick fixed both, together in that 50 pionter, so how then?

  • Comment 215, posted at 16.11.16 13:23:56 by benji Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • @Grasshopper (Comment 214) : its definitely is their its just Sheldon is grossly biased towards Lions

  • Comment 216, posted at 16.11.16 13:25:29 by benji Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • @benji (Comment 215) : RG Snyman and Jason Jenkins are the future for me…

  • Comment 217, posted at 16.11.16 13:25:36 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 214) : all top teams on their way to winning SR lose games, its the nature of the competition and sets SH apart from NH

  • Comment 218, posted at 16.11.16 13:27:20 by benji Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • @Grasshopper (Comment 214) : Didnt they take 50 or close to it 3 times this year? Does that not show they can also get it horribly wrong and not just a once off. And of those Lions players which have stood out for the Boks this year in more than 1 game or part of a game?
    Still goes back to my thought that this current crop is very over rated.

  • Comment 219, posted at 16.11.16 13:27:45 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 200) : Philip van der Walt

  • Comment 220, posted at 16.11.16 13:33:30 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 219) :

    vs Sunwolves won 26-13
    vs Chiefs won 36-32
    vs Highlanders lost 15-34
    vs Cheetahs won 39-22
    vs Crusaders lost 37-43
    vs Sharks won 24-9
    vs Stormers won 29-22
    vs Kings won 45-10
    vs Hurricanes lost 17-50
    vs Blues won 43-5
    vs Jaguares won 52-24
    vs Bulls won 56-20
    vs Sharks won 37-10
    vs Kings won 57-21
    vs Jaguares lost 22-34
    Quarter Final: vs Crusaders won 42-25
    Semi-final: vs Highlanders won 42-30
    Final: vs Hurricanes lost 3-20
    Played: 18
    Won: 13
    Lost: 5
    Points for: 622
    Points Against: 424
    Avg score: 35-24

    So only one blow-out vs Hurricanes who they then lost to in the final. A superb showing considering.

  • Comment 221, posted at 16.11.16 13:49:58 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 221) : They did have a good season im not denying that. But of their main players- which have performed for the Boks? I can think of patches now and then but nothing anything consistent. And i cant think of any other SA sides/players doing anything during super rugby. So i cant help but think we are over estimating what these guys should be achieving.

  • Comment 222, posted at 16.11.16 13:53:15 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 222) : Yep agreed, we probably don’t have the players good enough to compete with the All Blacks currently. However, if you looked at the 300 odd players we have in Europe and brought them all back, I’m sure we could find a really good mix of youth and experience to at least be competitive.

  • Comment 223, posted at 16.11.16 14:00:46 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 221) : I mean take the Lions main players:
    Marx- at most 1 or 2 good runs in a Bok jersey couple with horrific lineout throwing.
    Redelinghuis- good before injured so adding little value
    Mostert- has been very quiet in the games played
    Kriel- also very quiet apart from mayb 10min vs Ireland
    Whiteley- shows up in the odd 5-10min patch but otherwise you forget he is on the field
    De Klerk- very jekyll and hyde with her performances
    Jantjies- quite woeful
    Van rensburg- pretty decent in the game played
    Mapoe- disappearing act of note
    Combrinck- good couple minutes vs Ireland but nothing since and still looks injured.
    So those are the players from our best performing super rugby side…yet we expect great Bok results?

  • Comment 224, posted at 16.11.16 14:02:54 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 223) : Reality is we are never going to bring all those foreign players back…and i think including them, eventhough they are good, disrupts the team unity badly

  • Comment 225, posted at 16.11.16 14:03:54 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 224) : The flipside of that is if those guys can get some consistency going the Boks are then well served at 2,3,4,6,8,9,10,12,13 and 14. Now how much of a difference would that make if all those are playing well.

  • Comment 226, posted at 16.11.16 14:07:50 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 224) : Yep, but it’s because the game-plan or whatever we want to call it is not the same with the Boks. I bet if the Lions all pulled on a green jersey and played they would do better than the Boks. I am still positive about the future. We have a great group of youngsters who I think are good enough.

    Eg
    Thomas du Toit
    Ox Nche
    Lizo Gqoboka
    Maks van Dyk
    Akker & Marx
    RG Snyman
    Jason Jenkins
    Paul Willemse (if they can get him back)
    Jacques du Plessis (if they can get him back)
    JD Schickerling (Maybe a future No8)
    Chris Cloete
    CJ Vellerman
    Jaco Kriel
    Van Zyl
    Pollard
    Ruan Van Rensburg
    Warrick Gelant
    Venter
    Ulengo
    Rhule
    Senatla

    The core is there for 2019….

  • Comment 227, posted at 16.11.16 14:18:48 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 227) : There is potential there no doubt, perhaps im just pessimistic but im not sure all that potential will be realised, nevermind actually picked. I cant help but feel this Bok period is the same as 2000-2003

  • Comment 228, posted at 16.11.16 14:24:43 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 227) : Just using your list:
    Nche, Marx,DuToit, Willemse, Snyman, Cloete, DuPlessis, Kriel, Van Zyl, Pollard. Ulengo, Van Rensburg, Venter, Rhule, Gelant…

  • Comment 229, posted at 16.11.16 14:49:09 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • Sjo I just couldn’t keep up with this thread. Some really good points made and some that had me scratching my head. Here’s my 2c. I believe we have the talent in SA to compete with the best in the world. We are just not very clever in the way we go about things. Some guys here said you don’t need a gameplan. Of course you do! But like the AB’s you need to be adaptable to many variables like weather, opposition, referee etc.
    You guys talking about the Lions players and how shite they are in bok jerseys.. If they performed well in super rugby (lets only use performances against NZ teams), then how do they suddenly become bad players when they pull a different jersey over their head? And don’t say this is now a higher level.. I believe most NZ super rugby teams could beat the Irish team we faced in SA, and run other international sides pretty close.
    My opinion is that AC had a lekker ride through most of his career where he could rely on other experts to hide his own deficiencies. And now finally he is being shown up. I don’t believe he should continue as bok coach, but we really sit with the problem of who else? brenden venter? Ackers? Franco? Mallet? Foreign?

  • Comment 230, posted at 16.11.16 14:53:28 by Leeubok Reply

    LeeubokVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Leeubok (Comment 230) : “And don’t say this is now a higher level”

    I will continue to say it because it’s true.

  • Comment 231, posted at 16.11.16 14:59:35 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @Leeubok (Comment 230) : So your suggested way forward?

  • Comment 232, posted at 16.11.16 14:59:52 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • It just seems like the culture in the bok team is not right. This thing of AC of blaming specific players after each game is also really bad taste. Many coaches refuse to point out individuals after games, not even to highlight who played really well. AC started his tenure with a big mistake, appointing Strauss as captain. He then said he won’t pick many overseas players, only to do exactly the opposite. Then he goes and picks so many players out of position. He gets really annoyed when people ask him about the Lions running rugby. He keeps on defending certain players that are under performing (like Duh Duh) whilst throwing other guys (like Jantjies) under the bus. Heck he’s not even meeting his transformation target. Gameplan, what gameplan?

    Can he turn all this around? No, I don’t think he can. He doesn’t have the know how and he has too much of a chip on his shoulder.

  • Comment 233, posted at 16.11.16 15:00:59 by Leeubok Reply

    LeeubokVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Leeubok (Comment 233) : So then in your opinion AC is the cause of every problem and players errors. So fair enough get rid of him (dont know how or if they can as dont think there is a performance clause) but irrespective…so if he is gone then what?

  • Comment 234, posted at 16.11.16 15:04:37 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 232) : Sheldon, I dunno. Like I said, who else is there? We can’t follow the bafana model of firing coaches left right and centre when it is obviously not the coach every time. But in this case I do believe we have talented players and that the coach should take the blame. I may be biased, but Johan Ackerman? Give him a foreign assistant? Plumtree? Brendan Venter? But before they fire him they must have the next guy lined up so that he can take over immediately.

    And then I think implementing a system like Aus on the selection of foreign based players is needed. Half the team can’t pitch up 4 days before a test and we expect them to beat a team like England.

  • Comment 235, posted at 16.11.16 15:05:41 by Leeubok Reply

    LeeubokVodacom Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 234) : At some stage the coach has to take some responsibility. Let’s use the SA player of the year as an example. Did he become a crap player overnight? Remember the 2 dummies he was sold that led to two tries? So who’s fault is it that he’s playing out of position and obviously confused about his role on the field?

  • Comment 236, posted at 16.11.16 15:08:39 by Leeubok Reply

    LeeubokVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Leeubok (Comment 235) : Ok so general consensus is fire him and hire Ackermann and give him foreign assistants. Should we not try foreign assistants with AC before firing or not worth it? And if heaven forbid Ackermann doesnt get great results off the bat do we give him time or also only a year?

  • Comment 237, posted at 16.11.16 15:09:57 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 237) : So whats your solution? Maintain status quo and be happy with a ranking of 5 or worse in the world?

  • Comment 238, posted at 16.11.16 15:11:38 by Leeubok Reply

    LeeubokVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Leeubok (Comment 236) : Wait hang on, back up the bus. PSDT didnt become a crap player overnight. The errors he made were not because he is a crap player or were they because he was wearing 7 and not 4. It was purely a lapse in judgement and a basic error- however it was costly. Now ask anyone even PSDT today and he will tell you he should have set up in the pillar/post position and not shifted as thats what we all get taught. So dont blame the coach for that and it certainnly doesnt make PSDT a crap player. It is just an error, albeit a costly one/two

  • Comment 239, posted at 16.11.16 15:13:57 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 237) : If AC picked a young team and tried new things, I’d happily say give him and the team time, they will come right. But nothing he has done this year has given me hope that things will improve

  • Comment 240, posted at 16.11.16 15:14:12 by Leeubok Reply

    LeeubokVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Leeubok (Comment 238) : I think a solution is a lot tougher than just firing a coach. I think by and large AC’s squad selection has been pretty good, his team selection not so. I dont think his assistants are aiding him too much, and now even more added, it must be chaos. Then he is picking local and overseas guys and its co-ordination disaster. I think its probably easier to remove assistants first so lets do that. Leave Franco Smith and Mathew Proudfoot. Then i think for the next year only pick local players and get them in camp every month and assess fitness levels etc. I think the Super rugby coaches need to form the selection panel with AC. So lets do that for a year and see how we go.

  • Comment 241, posted at 16.11.16 15:23:53 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 241) : I don’t agree at all, this man is out of his league. He has to go after this tour is done. I still don’t get why you so supportive of AC. We will never win the next WC with AC in charge I can promise you that.

  • Comment 242, posted at 16.11.16 15:30:37 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli BoelieTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 211) : So that’s it? Our players are not good enough based on SR results? Not good enough to even be competitive for a full 80mins against England? I disagree completely with that. The Australians had an even worse SR than we did more so the Argies and both of their national teams are currently performing better than we are even though they aren’t winning every match they are at least competitive. We should definitely be doing better, not saying we should have won the AB’s or Eng as they are very good at the moment(Eng wasn’t on the day) but we should be able to stay in the games longer at least.

  • Comment 243, posted at 16.11.16 15:33:02 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 242) : And replace him with who?? Realistically. I said exactly the same thing when all wanted Meyer fired, and we got AC. So i ask again.

  • Comment 244, posted at 16.11.16 15:35:15 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Quintin (Comment 243) : You say we should be doing better based on what? Yes Aussies didnt have a good super rugby- and they got smashed by Eng and NZ and lost to us and were lucky not to lose to Arg and the Scots. The Boks were in the game against Eng until Combrinck’s brainfart. From then on Eng under no pressure and Boks chasing the game. We are currently 4th in the world and close with Ireland and i reckon thats about right based on who we have this year.

  • Comment 245, posted at 16.11.16 15:38:53 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 244) : if you learn one thing about Uli, it’s that he never thinks past the firing part.

    And he wants to fire EVERYONE

  • Comment 246, posted at 16.11.16 15:39:22 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 241) : Agree, AC is a very nice fella but in a cut throat environment with lots at stake, that doesn’t cut it. Maybe he should be the team manager instead or Assistant coach again to learn from someone better. We need an injection of new ideas, a foreign coach for sure. Let the Team Manager (aka AC) deal with the politics etc. The coach doesn’t necessarily need to be a Kiwi, just someone with hunger and drive. AC looks half asleep most of the time. Most people don’t like Cheika as the Aus coach, but at least he has personality and has brought some ‘chutzpah’ to their team, especially in the pack. Habana, Pietersen, Beast, Strauss, Alberts etc have had their time, let them go.

  • Comment 247, posted at 16.11.16 15:49:16 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 247) : Beast and Alberts actually had good games vs Eng but im happy if younger guys brought in. The problem is who actually wants to coach the Boks?? Perhaps only Ackermann, but he isnt very experienced at all but probably the best of the local lot willing, i am assuming he is willing as not sure he even applied when Meyer left. The problem with appointing say Ackermann with Smith as assistant is who then coaches the Lions/Cheetahs as its those coaches who have the most contact time with the players and really develop them.

  • Comment 248, posted at 16.11.16 15:55:19 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 245) : So we don’t have 23 players that are good enough to do better than win 4 out of their last 10 test matches? Some of those 4 we won we were also lucky to walk away with a win and not all of them was very convincing either.

  • Comment 249, posted at 16.11.16 17:14:20 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Quintin (Comment 249) : Well we won a world cup once without the benefit of a SR season to use as a benchmark. Remember?

  • Comment 250, posted at 16.11.16 18:35:36 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • Curry cup and super rugby are two different animals. Super rugby and springbok rugby are as well. I don’t see how we can compare since springbok teams can still be awesome if it takes the best skills and combines it into a different unit with different coaching different game plans. Even if the individual teams lacked. I think that’s what we were all hoping.

  • Comment 251, posted at 16.11.16 18:46:58 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 244) : Maybe you should stop asking, as the next time we might get Cheeky Watson. ….

  • Comment 252, posted at 16.11.16 18:49:11 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 250) : Ummmmmm….the Super 10 started in 1993 and Transvaal won that competition with the Reds winning in 1994 and 1995…so there were actually 3 Super Rugby seasons as a benchmark.

  • Comment 253, posted at 16.11.16 19:00:39 by Dancing Bear Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Dancing BearAssistant coach
     
  • Any views on next year’s schoolboy signings? Any potential stars?

  • Comment 254, posted at 16.11.16 23:45:22 by JR Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 253) : Forgot about super 10. Supers only started in 96 for me with the super 12 format and all big provinces included not just 3. I still stand by my comment that it’s an entirely different animal and you cannot use it as a benchmark for international rugby.

  • Comment 255, posted at 17.11.16 06:52:30 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • So on the TMO program Jake said that 2 of the moves Eng scored against us, we actually used ourselves in 2007 at the world cup. Eddie introduced the move to them and told them he likes it. And by the way, AC was part of the coaching staff back then. So Jakes point is, if our coaching team did their homework we would’ve expected those moves and be ready for it. Instead our players were confused and didn’t know what the heck is going on. Just another example of how AC is failing, and how you can attribute 2 tries to the coaches and not individual mistakes.

    And by the way Sheldon, the try you blame on Combrinck actually came from JPP spilling the ball in the air. From there they moved it quickly out wide before the kick Combrinck couldn’t gather.

  • Comment 256, posted at 17.11.16 07:05:11 by Leeubok Reply

    LeeubokVodacom Cup player
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 252) : Hey at least that would be entertaining. Id still take PDV round 2…i miss those pearls of wisdom…

  • Comment 257, posted at 17.11.16 07:39:29 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • So Habbanna who was conveniently injured for the England game will return against Italy score four trys to add to his personal record and then possibly, most likely ,in fact definately miss the Welsh game.

  • Comment 258, posted at 17.11.16 07:41:59 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @Leeubok (Comment 256) : Yes JPP dropped the ball, BUT Combrinck had ample time to get back and clear the ball. Instead he jogged back thinking he was so much faster than May, tripped over himself and rolled the ball along the ground. Sorry thats 100% his error,even both commentators remarked how poor Combrinck did in that situation, just like the 2 tries around the rucks were 100% PSDT error. Dont blame the coach for that, thats very incorrect. The try they scored from the lineout was definitely used by the Boks before- often with JPP and in this case it was actually him who didnt work hard enough off the ball as it was his man that went through the gap.

  • Comment 259, posted at 17.11.16 07:43:29 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 258) : Hell id be happy if anyone scores 4 tries this weekend, even if AC subs himself on.

  • Comment 260, posted at 17.11.16 07:47:17 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 260) : Fucks sake we are playing Italy,I remember going to a test at K.P where we beat Italy by 100 points and the partisan Natal home crowd booed Percy who was playing for the Stormers at that time.
    If we don’t give the Italians a serious hiding, at least 30 points I suggest Coetzee doesn’t come home, he should get in one of those refugee boats and head backwards to Libya.

  • Comment 261, posted at 17.11.16 07:56:59 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 253) : @coolfusion (Comment 255) : also with Bear on this for me Super rugby started with the Super 10! I think Super rugby can be used as an overall view of how a country is performing but international rugby is a bit different as players and coaches does not nearly have the same time to click as a team. Another thing is players joining the national team from all over the world with different playing conditions and playing styles so yes success in Super rugby will not guarantee international success. However the nice thing about having a lot of sides on the top of Super rugby is the national coach will have a lot more players that’s in form to choose from and competition for playing spots will be higher so players should perform better!

  • Comment 262, posted at 17.11.16 08:09:42 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 261) : hahaha give them some income for the return journey!!!

  • Comment 263, posted at 17.11.16 08:13:09 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 261) : I also recall that game. Was it not Corne Krige’s first as captain? Italy are poor, Brendon Venter is helping with the defense and we all know how forgetful he is with that. Boks should win comfortbably- im interested to see the team he goes with. Yes he needs the win but it is a chance to start giving the younger guys a run with a view to 2017, especially after we have lost to Eng.

  • Comment 264, posted at 17.11.16 08:20:22 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 258) : yes the Bok script is one of a comedy now,

  • Comment 265, posted at 17.11.16 08:33:17 by benji Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Team captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 264) : Coetzee is only concerned with one thing at the moment getting a win,Iam seriously surprised that he hasn’t recalled Schalk Burger,he is that desperate.

  • Comment 266, posted at 17.11.16 08:41:12 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 266) : I must admit i thought he would call Burger when both Louw and Kriel went down. I think Burger has made himself unavailable though, just judging by a Sky interview with him he said maybe down the road as he hasnt retired but definitely not now. I do agree he will do anything for just a win now

  • Comment 267, posted at 17.11.16 08:45:55 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 258) : I’m with you on this one. Habana really annoys me because he is just chasing records. He loves shooting up out the defensive line to go for the intercept. 2/10 times he scores and he’s a big hero cause he’s added to his try scoring record. But no-one says anything about the other 8/10 times the other team scores…

    I’m sure we’ll beat Italy. Heck we might even score a few tries. But does that mean the boks are improving? Nope, it does not! I see AC keeps saying they are 1 win away from turning things around… Ja right!

  • Comment 268, posted at 17.11.16 09:25:10 by Leeubok Reply

    LeeubokVodacom Cup player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 246) : At least I recognise untalented coaches fairly quickly. Especially those who have been given a free ride. Ala PvD, AC, GG, BMH. oh and bad CEO’s. Something you cannot vouch for.

    @SheldonK (Comment 244) : Realistically, did SARU actually go through the process of trying to find a better coach than AC? I think they tried Wayne Smith, and from my understanding there was some interest from him, however as always we have to sit with second best due to the political influences that the country brings with it.
    Your point that he may not be fired is a good point and based on the fact that he has to be there no matter what, win or lose, even if we 10th on the rankings next year he’ll still have his job. In truth this shows your how messed up our rugby and politics has become. Anyone with a decent brain knows that he needs to go after this tour, so that we can start building for the future. I can tell you now if we replaced him with JW we would be in the Semi’s come WC time. I know he wont be chosen but do you think we will even see the quarters if we carry on with AC? AC is clue less, and the players, ex players and ex coaches all know this. How do we repair the current state? The only solution is to employ someone who actually knows what they doing to give us the best shot at the WC that we able to get. Do you honestly think AC is giving us that?

  • Comment 269, posted at 17.11.16 09:30:09 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli BoelieTeam captain
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 269) : I have no idea what SARU did in finding a new coach after Meyer, and neither do you unless you sit on the SARU board, do you? There is zero evidence of Wayne Smith being interested in the job, some journalist made mention of his name to get people to read his baseless article- Wayne Smith never mentioned a thing. In the after match of AC being appointed not 1 coach out there said well they could have chosen me, not 1 spoke up. To me that tells a tale. So is AC ideal, no but who else really? As i said earlier its probably easier to get rid of his assistants so should we not start there. Then gets a selection panel of the super rugby coaches to help pick the team. If we fire AC and appoint pretty much the only other candidate in Ackermann he too will need good assistants and help from the super rugby coaches. This isnt going to be a quick fix turn around even though id love it to be. With the new SARU president talking about possible privatisation of franchises who knows, maybe a foreign coach isnt too crazy a thought in the future. At the moment i cant see AC going before the end of next year.

  • Comment 270, posted at 17.11.16 09:43:28 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 270) : I would try get Swys de Bruin in as ‘technical advisor’ or assistant coach, he is the brains behind the Lions…

  • Comment 271, posted at 17.11.16 10:01:46 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 270) : You can defend ,rationalize,and apologize for AC as much as you like, but the one frightening fact is the number of players making themselves unavailable to play for him, guys like Vermullen and Burger who played for him forever,Don’t think either of those guys are prone to emotional hissy fits like Frans Steyn.Add in Jannie and a pattern is starting emerge.

  • Comment 272, posted at 17.11.16 10:04:03 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 272) : If guys arent playing just because they dont like the coach then sorry i lose a lot of respect for them as its then all about their egos and not the Boks. Maybe read my comments- i say AC is making mistakes, i never said he isnt. Im just not going to blame him for everything under the sun including if it rains or not. Guess im different from the general SA ‘supporter’ that way.

  • Comment 273, posted at 17.11.16 10:10:00 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 271) : He would yes but as i mentioned in a previous post my concern with taking all these good coaches away from the franchises like say Ackermann and Swys and Franco Smith is then who will be the guys coaching the players day in and day out at franchise level and actually preparing them more than the very limited time the Bok coach has with them. If anything get these good brains involved with that Mobi unit to assist the Boks when in camp as well as help improve all the players in the country.

  • Comment 274, posted at 17.11.16 10:13:07 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 273) : No my point is that in over 50 years of watching Springbok rugby the first player ever to turn his back and walkout on the Boks was Frans Steyn,at that time I went along with the popular sentiment that he was a spoilt kid who could not control his emotions.My thinking was that he had achieved the pinnacle of success too soon and life was on the downward slide tragically in his early 20′s.
    Stupid reasons were given to gloss over his snub of the national badge.
    But you can’t apply that same logic to Vermullen,Burger and du Plessis,three very stoic and un emotional guys, who between them have bled buckets of blood for the Boks.
    To not acknowledge that there is a serious problem there is hiding your head in the sand.

  • Comment 275, posted at 17.11.16 10:20:04 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 273) : You don’t have to blame everything under the sun on him. Blame him for what he is responsible for and not achieving: the boks winning games. I don’t buy your excuse of we don’t have the players. We do. His failure during the Irish series could be put down to not having enough time to prepare. But 10 games later there has been NO improvement

  • Comment 276, posted at 17.11.16 10:21:50 by Leeubok Reply

    LeeubokVodacom Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 274) : the best school coaches should step up to provincial level eg Sean Erasmus at Paarl Boys High. One of Swys’s protégés…

  • Comment 277, posted at 17.11.16 10:23:00 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 277) : Do you think Erasmus as an example is ready to coach a super rugby side? I do agree with your point that there needs to be progression though.

  • Comment 278, posted at 17.11.16 10:25:25 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 275) : If you read between the lines what Duane said, he must be talking about the coach and his assistants. The “systems” in SA has been the same for many years. Why is it all crumbling down now suddenly, and leading to poor bok performances? It’s not, it’s because we now have a coaching team that shouldn’t be there. And that is what Duane is referring too. And as you said, he knows AC well, so if he doesn’t want to play for him then you know there are problems…

  • Comment 279, posted at 17.11.16 10:26:00 by Leeubok Reply

    LeeubokVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Leeubok (Comment 276) : Yes of course the players are perfect and AC told PSDT to buy the Youngs dummy and not cover pillar/post like he has been taught since 10yrs old. He also told JPP to drop the ball and Combrink so slowly jog back and trip over himself. Clearly Goosen didnt listen to him when he said dont attack the line and create tries. These players clearly listen very well to a coach they apparently dont like or trust.

  • Comment 280, posted at 17.11.16 10:30:26 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 275) : So u see a problem as guys earning a bucket load for their clubs dont want to play for the Boks and perhaps jeopardize earning that money. Sorry but they are part of the problem currently not the solution. And if they care that much have the balls to actually say why they not playing.

  • Comment 281, posted at 17.11.16 10:34:49 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 280) : So are individual mistakes the reason why we’re 4/10 and playing some of the worst rugby in bok history? Do you think the forwards just forgot AC’s instructions to compete in the lineouts? When players like Faf and Elton try to play differently to what they’re used to and what their strengths are, do you think it’s because they just felt like doing that on the day? When a player like Duh Duh is selected every week and he keeps doing the same stupid thing, is it his own fault? Come on man, the buck stops with the coach and he should man up to the team’s failure!

  • Comment 282, posted at 17.11.16 10:40:11 by Leeubok Reply

    LeeubokVodacom Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 278) : I actually do. If Fleck can do it with no coaching experience then Sean certainly can. He should definitely be coaching the Junior Boks. He has done his time at school level, learnt along the way and I think ready to take a step up. He has done everything he can as a school coach. Look at Jake White, also a school master and coach. Same with Graham Henry. There is something to be said by starting at roots level, the passion, the traditions and the ethos come from that level. I mean what coaching experience did Dawie Theron have?

  • Comment 283, posted at 17.11.16 10:42:33 by Grasshopper Reply

    GrasshopperVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Leeubok (Comment 282) : Dont worry, I see Carr is in selection frame this week, I am sure he will fix everything.

    @SheldonK (Comment 280) : I still want to know why you are constantly defending AC and blaming the players.

  • Comment 284, posted at 17.11.16 10:43:00 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli BoelieTeam captain
     
  • @Leeubok (Comment 282) : All im saying is the players need to take responsibility for their mistakes just like AC must take responsibility for his. You seem to think the players are completely blame free. Jantjies was rubbish for the Boks, dont tell me this cra about his ‘natural game’, he was rubbish fullstop. Faf was been both good and horrible. I have said from day 1 that AC’s biggest errors is his team selection although his overalll squad selection has been pretty good. So AGAIN im not saying AC is blameless, but neither are the players as some of their efforts have been pathetic.

  • Comment 285, posted at 17.11.16 10:44:49 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 284) : Carr isn’t a bad player. But he started most of the season on the bench for the Stormers. So I don’t understand how someone that isn’t first choice at his union can start for the boks? (same with paige). I’d much rather give Cassiem who’s in good form and high in confidence a chance

  • Comment 286, posted at 17.11.16 10:45:28 by Leeubok Reply

    LeeubokVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 284) : FFS can you read?? i have repeatedly said that both AC AND the players are to blame. Neither are blame free and should both take responsibility.

  • Comment 287, posted at 17.11.16 10:46:23 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 283) : You make a fair point. I do rate Sean as a coach. Think i just have the personal preference to see him with the SA u20s over a franchise coach, probably more because going from dealing with school boys to dealing with adult professionals takes an adjustment.

  • Comment 288, posted at 17.11.16 10:48:31 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 285) : Ok now we’re getting somewhere with you. I agree, players should take responsibility for their mistakes. I wanted to try defend Jantjies but that’s a debate for another day. So do you agree that AC is getting his selections wrong? Why throw Jantjies and Mapoe away (who had a superb super rugby season) but keep duh duh who’s been struggling since last year (and is also to blame for the failure of whoever plays 13 outside him)? Those sort of selections I just do not understand, and can only be put down to favoritism.

  • Comment 289, posted at 17.11.16 10:50:23 by Leeubok Reply

    LeeubokVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Leeubok (Comment 289) : From the very first squad AC chose i said his overall squad selection was pretty good. However, when it comes to picking a team from that squad he is getting it wrong, and sometimes badly wrong. Every coach has his favourites and i think DeAllende falls into that category for AC. Its why i suggested a selection panel to help pick the team. I think the majority of SA players have confidence issues and if a couple things go wrong they struggle to pull it right- having a strong captain would help a bit but there doesnt seem to be that candidate at the moment. Perhaps Whiteley is an option but he is also not fully confident in his role at international level. So yeh AC is not picking the optimal combinations but the guys picked shouldnt be making the basic errors they have this year, even they would admit that.

  • Comment 290, posted at 17.11.16 10:56:28 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 287) : You have also repeatedly defended this guy as if we don’t have any other option but to keep this bloke ruining our rugby!

  • Comment 291, posted at 17.11.16 11:00:52 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli BoelieTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 290) : Fair enough. I was also very optimistic with his first squad selection, it looked like he was going to reward super rugby form. But from there on it was all downhill… He had the ideal opportunity to start afresh with a young team, new captain and new style of play (attacking rugby). If he did that but struggled this year I’m sure everyone could live with it, because we would see he has a plan and is building towards something. Sadly that is not the case and we have regressed

  • Comment 292, posted at 17.11.16 11:01:39 by Leeubok Reply

    LeeubokVodacom Cup player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 280) : @SheldonK (Comment 281) : Imagine how demotivated, disinterested etc etc these players must be to now to be in the mindset that they are. Why is that? these traits werent evident while playing for their clubs / franchises…..what has changed in the interim that, now that they are playing for the elite team, they are subject to this malaise. There must be some indication of what it is..

  • Comment 293, posted at 17.11.16 11:01:39 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 293) : go back and read what I posted at 170

  • Comment 294, posted at 17.11.16 11:04:38 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 291) : Im convinced you cant read.

  • Comment 295, posted at 17.11.16 11:11:31 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Leeubok (Comment 292) : Yeh i dunno, he starts with a good squad and then i dunno. But its not like every player selected is incorrect- they should not be playing this badly. These are professionals playing for their country. Not little boys needing a hug before they run onto the big field.

  • Comment 296, posted at 17.11.16 11:14:25 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 293) : The players are demotivated, disinterested…playing for their country on the international stage? Come on, are they that pathetic. Do they need a hug before each game. No wonder we get beaten up in games if thats the case. They sound like 10yr olds.

  • Comment 297, posted at 17.11.16 11:16:58 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 295) : You taking “stamp kar rugby” to a whole new level.

  • Comment 298, posted at 17.11.16 11:30:17 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli BoelieTeam captain
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 297) : We have just been through a similar situation (a few times the past 3 years) at the Sharks and you cant see any similarities here?

  • Comment 299, posted at 17.11.16 11:32:25 by Uli Boelie Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli BoelieTeam captain
     
  • @The hound (Comment 294) : I read it, I know that is your and many others view, I was just wondering what Sheldons thoughts were.

  • Comment 300, posted at 17.11.16 11:38:27 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 299) : And the Sharks results have improved with each coach being fired hey? Who do you realistically think should replace AC right now? Wayne Smith probably :roll:

  • Comment 301, posted at 17.11.16 11:38:39 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 297) : “The players are demotivated, disinterested…playing for their country on the international stage? Come on, are they that pathetic” I dont know, what do you think…..the basic mistakes, the lack of urgency etc……traits that werent evident at club level but are now.

  • Comment 302, posted at 17.11.16 11:41:00 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 301) : Gary Gold

  • Comment 303, posted at 17.11.16 11:43:25 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 300) : To be honest i think the players are acting like a bunch of wimps currently, spoilt brats is probably a better description. Yes the coach may not be everyone’s cup of tea and isnt selecting the peoples choice but the players selected are playing for the Boks- the top representative rugby side in the country. A side that all rugby players in the country strive to play for their whole career. So now that these guys are selected they are sulking and are disinterested because they dont like the coach? Im sorry but thats pathetic from so called professionals.

  • Comment 304, posted at 17.11.16 11:43:26 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 304) : Sheldon I know you played the game, but consider this you are in the first team at school, and out of the blue three under 14 players are handed the coaching reins tell me how motivated would you be.

  • Comment 305, posted at 17.11.16 11:46:43 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 305) : Honest reaction- dont care what they do im still not going to look like a clown on the field. Im going to go out and give my best, why- because i have self respect and integrity for the team. Its not just about me and my ego. But hey thats just me, and i didnt have a paycheque with a lot of zeros coming my way win or lose…

  • Comment 306, posted at 17.11.16 11:50:09 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 305) : What would you do? Play and give your very best? or refuse to play and sulk and mope around on the field?

  • Comment 307, posted at 17.11.16 11:53:08 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 307) : Firstly it would make me question my motivation, and all those things I played for like honor and pride in the jersey and knowing that I had achieved the pinnacle of my expectations.
    And once all those things were devalued ,I’d seek my motivation else where, money.

  • Comment 308, posted at 17.11.16 11:59:37 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 308) : Why on earth would your motivation change? surely you are motivated to make the team and perform not motivated to make the team only if there is a nice coach and i play next to my mate and we have a moves i agree with. If thats the case i question the motivation…

  • Comment 309, posted at 17.11.16 12:07:21 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 309) : My motivation would have been to play for the highest team and when I got there I found out that it was not.

  • Comment 310, posted at 17.11.16 12:19:39 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 310) : Im confused. Why would it not be the highest team? I dont see how the motivation would change. Perhaps i see things differently.

  • Comment 311, posted at 17.11.16 12:25:09 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 304) : It must be a Cape thing….the Cape Cobras hate Paul Adams as a coach and it shows in their results and in the meantime Gogga is going nowhere.

  • Comment 312, posted at 17.11.16 12:27:07 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 311) : Why don’t we just agree to disagree, and leave it there.

    just as a closing aside I’m with Hennie on this one.

  • Comment 313, posted at 17.11.16 12:34:38 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 313) : Thats fair enough. As i said i just personally cant comprehend it but perhaps others can.

  • Comment 314, posted at 17.11.16 12:41:33 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 312) : Look i still think that thats such a cop out from the players as they the ones on the field playing like a bunch of idiots not Adams. But in their defense at least they have had the guts to come out and say they dont want him.

  • Comment 315, posted at 17.11.16 12:42:37 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • AC isnt going anywhere chaps: http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/mbalula-wants-sa-to-give-coetzee-a-chance-20161116#cxrecs_s

  • Comment 316, posted at 17.11.16 12:47:00 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 316) : I haven’t even read it yet but if Mbalula is involved here I’m going with the exact opposite. Do you honestly think that *@%&$^@%! has the best interest of the sport, the people and the country at heart? Or do you think he has political agendas and wants to line his own fat pocket? He is one of the biggest reasons sport in this country is going down the drain!

  • Comment 317, posted at 17.11.16 13:06:58 by Leeubok Reply

    LeeubokVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Leeubok (Comment 317) : Basic rule of thumb..if any article has the words : Mbulula says . then you know without doubt the best interests of the sport dont come close to featuring. Unfortunately he is large and in charge.

  • Comment 318, posted at 17.11.16 13:08:55 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @coolfusion (Comment 255) : I can understand that perspective, Super 10 was still in the amateur era.

  • Comment 319, posted at 17.11.16 14:13:19 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 259) : I would not say those two tries were 100% PSdT. In one try, Kitshoff was actually on the side of the ruck, but touching the ruck with one hand, he should have been 1 metre further out. Outside PSdT de Allende was FAAAARRRR tooooooo wide! he left a massive gap between him and PSdT, Yarde ran to that gap, leaving PSdT to have to defend two players which is why he bought the dummy. If Kitshoff were a metre further out, and de Allende about 10 metres closer to PSdT, then de Allende would have been able to defend Yarde, and PSdT could have focused on Youngs. So while PSdT did make mistakes for both tries, players around him also contributed to the situation, so not 100% his fault. Really sad that professional rugby players do not know these basics of defence.

  • Comment 320, posted at 17.11.16 14:20:45 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 320) : Also did you notice that Lambie was defending the right wing channel as he did against the Baabaas when Pietersen was so weak defensively. Is Combrink’s defence that bad that Lambie has to cover his channel? The hole between de Allende and PSdT should have been filled by Lambie, by Lambie covering for other player’s defensive deficiencies, left a huge hole for PSdT to cover.

    I am not a PSdT defender, but I really don’t think any of the tries can be blamed on a single player completely, even if they are mostly responsible.

  • Comment 321, posted at 17.11.16 14:26:14 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 320) : Yeh look saying its 100% his fault is probably harsh but fact is you learn from a very young age to set up pillar/post defense first and then fill from the ruck outwards. Kitshoff could have perhaps been wider but he was pretty attached to the ruck and in the pillar position, PSDT should have been a lot closer and pulled DeAllende with him. As you say its the real basics of defense. With the Eng try from the lineout it was JPP man that went through the gap-JPP should have been working infield as soon as the pass was made from the lineout- he was jogging (lazy defense). Its that same lazy defense from Combrinck that cost another try. He could quite easily have sprinted back and cleared the ball either to LeRoux or into touch. Him jogging put everyone under huge pressure. So its not massive errors just lazy play and back in the day if you did that in a school game you would probably get caned for it.

  • Comment 322, posted at 17.11.16 14:27:10 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 322) : Right, there was more to the try as Robshaw ran a line inside Youngs which tied up Kitshoff, PSdT was actually in a good position, but all of a sudden found himself covering both Youngs and Yarde with no help from one of his teammates. He drifted out with Yarde, perhaps not realizing Kitshoff was tied up with Robshaw. So there was excellent play by England off the ball to set up that try, but clearly to me, de Allende was far too wide, and in my opinion the person most at fault.

  • Comment 323, posted at 17.11.16 14:33:49 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 323) : No cant blame DeAllende. PSDT should have stayed in his channel and called De Allende closer. We always moan at Habana at going for an intercept instead of holding his line. PSDT did same thing. Even he will tell you if you ask him, trust me i can bet he was very embarrassed at the monday video session.

  • Comment 324, posted at 17.11.16 14:38:51 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • It was truly excellent off the ball play by England, having players tie up defenders without having the ball, recognizing the space between PSdT and de Allende and putting an extra player into that space which left PSdT to have to defend against 2. This is the kind of thoughtful intelligent play and hustle that is sorely missing at the Boks. If you look at where England were a year ago, and where they are now, it shows that a good coach can make a massive difference, and I believe a good coach can bring the Boks to the top again and very quickly, in my opinion.

  • Comment 325, posted at 17.11.16 14:40:43 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 324) : If you go earlier in the play, PSdT was on the other side of the ruck, and he came over to cover the other side, not a single other Bok recognized the hole and come to assist, he was a little late getting there and was about a metre behind the gain line and moving outward to cover the hole. Credit to Youngs for recognizing the situation and exploiting it. But where were all the other Boks, that hole was enormous!

  • Comment 326, posted at 17.11.16 14:44:29 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 325) : @Dancing Bear (Comment 326) : Yeh look it was good heads up play from England to exploit it. but it was also schoolboy error stuff defensively from the Boks. At that level you have to defend better as England did against us.

  • Comment 327, posted at 17.11.16 14:51:09 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     

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