robdylan

Sharks 2017 jerseys revealed


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks, Super Rugby on 6 Dec 2016 at 20:23
Tagged with : ,

Here are the home and away strips that the Sharks will wear in Super Rugby 2017.

The design team has stuck with a traditional black and white theme for the home and away jerseys, emphasising the City of Durban and its ties to the Sharks team through the use of various motifs. Surfboards and traditional Zulu shields are just two of these, embossed in a rather subtle fashion on both jerseys.

Home Jersey:

Away Jersey:

Also launched is a Super Hero themed charity jersey, as you can see in this picture:



261 Comments

  • Where do i buy a super hero one? Looking freaking awsome

  • Comment 1, posted at 06.12.16 20:30:29 by Henkb Reply
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  • All 3 looks great, but the hero one looks best. Hope they sell it!

  • Comment 2, posted at 06.12.16 20:36:25 by Dragnipur Reply
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  • @Dragnipur (Comment 2) : me too

  • Comment 3, posted at 06.12.16 20:39:58 by robdylan Reply
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  • R249 will be fair price. Spend R599 2 years in a row and cant wear those anymore

  • Comment 4, posted at 06.12.16 20:44:38 by ebenp Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • That super hero jersey doesn’t look as pink when Lambie wears it :razz:

  • Comment 5, posted at 06.12.16 20:55:30 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Henkb (Comment 1) : Should. Will find out from canterbury tomorrow but their initial order list for
    December was only for the Home jersey. Will probably only be available in Jan or Feb

  • Comment 6, posted at 06.12.16 20:57:28 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • Good job by those Canterbury chaps… Pity that it will more than likely be pitched too expensive. But ja, great looking jerseys

  • Comment 7, posted at 06.12.16 20:58:55 by SeanJeff Reply

    SeanJeffSuper Rugby player
     
  • @ebenp (Comment 4) : CCC’s fits normal people better than BLK but dropping a few pounds will also help :lol:

  • Comment 8, posted at 06.12.16 21:01:38 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • Not at all what I was hoping for but first impression is that it’s still a huge improvement on the existing jerseys. White’s my favourite at the moment but I like the novelty factor of the charity jersey. The Canterbury style collar needs to grow on me.

  • Comment 9, posted at 06.12.16 21:03:35 by vanmartin Reply
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  • The first person who, having enclosed a plot of land, took it into his head to say this is mine and found people simple enough to believe him was the true founder of civil society. What crimes, wars, murders, what miseries and horrors would the human race have been spared, had some one pulled up the stakes or filled in the ditch and cried out to his fellow men: “Do not listen to this imposter. You are lost if you forget that the fruits of the earth belong to all and the earth to no one!
    Jean-Jacques Rousseau, The Social Contract and The Discourse

  • Comment 10, posted at 06.12.16 21:15:26 by fyndraai Reply
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  • Today he would have written:

    The first person who took an idea, image, shape or color and said, this is mine……..

  • Comment 11, posted at 06.12.16 21:17:46 by fyndraai Reply
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  • Awesomeness ???? ????

  • Comment 12, posted at 06.12.16 21:29:10 by KILLER SHARK Reply
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  • Awesomeness ???? ????

  • Comment 13, posted at 06.12.16 21:29:48 by KILLER SHARK Reply
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  • Awesomeness

  • Comment 14, posted at 06.12.16 21:30:58 by KILLER SHARK Reply
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  • Luvit

  • Comment 15, posted at 06.12.16 21:33:04 by KILLER SHARK Reply
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  • Interesting motif: Looks tribal but it isn’t. With sharks, Zulu shields and surfboards

  • Comment 16, posted at 06.12.16 21:33:20 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @ebenp (Comment 4) : Luv it but yes price must be more affordable

  • Comment 17, posted at 06.12.16 21:33:54 by KILLER SHARK Reply
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  • @KILLER SHARK (Comment 17) : R700

  • Comment 18, posted at 06.12.16 21:35:10 by Baylion Reply

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  • Luvit hope.we can afford it

  • Comment 19, posted at 06.12.16 21:35:27 by KILLER SHARK Reply
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  • Awesome

  • Comment 20, posted at 06.12.16 21:36:18 by KILLER SHARK Reply
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  • @KILLER SHARK (Comment 20) : are you drunk? Or having issues with the app?

  • Comment 21, posted at 06.12.16 22:14:07 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 21) : Well obviously this called for a celebration :)

  • Comment 22, posted at 06.12.16 22:28:25 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Baylion (Comment 6) : Thank u, would really like to get one of those super hero ones in the closet to wear or to have it framed for the bar area

  • Comment 23, posted at 06.12.16 23:00:26 by Henkb Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 10) : Sharksworld big guy, not Commieworld.

  • Comment 24, posted at 07.12.16 06:13:46 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • Two epic jerseys and a complete pile of shit.
    Cringe when I visualize whole bunch of fat out of shape people in that body fitting joke jersey.
    The other two are amongst the bestie have ever had.

  • Comment 25, posted at 07.12.16 07:29:41 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 25) : Hey what shirt must I then wear? :sad: But yeah, they really should make the supporters jersey out of normal fabric.

  • Comment 26, posted at 07.12.16 07:49:28 by KingRiaan Reply

    KingRiaanTeam captain
     
  • @The hound (Comment 25) : I like all of the jerseys although the collar, or lack of it on the away kit with the black stitching looks a bit awkward. Would have like it to match the jersey like the home kit but it’s definitely an upgrade on last years kit.

  • Comment 27, posted at 07.12.16 07:52:18 by Quintin Reply

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  • I still don’t understand that we play in white when we play away. That idea is a pile of junk.

  • Comment 28, posted at 07.12.16 09:03:36 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 28) : i agree. We can use it when there is a clash

  • Comment 29, posted at 07.12.16 09:24:03 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 28) : Isn’t that just a figure of speech, the alternate strip was initiated in the days of black and white T.V. where there was no distinction between two teams with similar strips .
    I don’t think we always wear the black at home although if there is a potential conflict the away team normally wears the alternative.

  • Comment 30, posted at 07.12.16 09:24:21 by The hound Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 29) : of colours

  • Comment 31, posted at 07.12.16 09:25:07 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 30) : I reckon they will wear the super hero one exactly once and there will be a charity event associated.

  • Comment 32, posted at 07.12.16 09:42:47 by robdylan Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 29) : for sure

    @The hound (Comment 30) : We have been wearing the white quite regularly the last couple of seasons without any clash of colour to our black outfit.

  • Comment 33, posted at 07.12.16 09:50:42 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • Not bad… I’ve not bought myself a Sharks jersey for a few years now. I think it’s time for a new one, perhaps the away strip.

    @robdylan (Comment 32) : Similar to the pink CC jerseys in support of cancer. Did we even have one of those matches this year?

  • Comment 34, posted at 07.12.16 09:51:40 by Farlington Reply

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  • @Baylion (Comment 18) : @ebenp (Comment 4) :

    Rob I am sure you will be cool with this link on the site. the Jersey is R699
    http://sharksrugby.co.za/product/ccc-2017-mens-sr-home-jersey/

  • Comment 35, posted at 07.12.16 09:51:45 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 32) : A match that we will lose as I can’t remember one charity match we hosted that we ever won. With the pink CC jerseys, the Cheetahs beat us and with the red and white jerseys the Crusaders demolished us.

  • Comment 36, posted at 07.12.16 09:52:17 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 36) : no, we won the pink jersey match.

  • Comment 37, posted at 07.12.16 10:17:59 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 32) : I see that Eduardo never took the photo op to slip his svelte physic into the Superhero jersey

  • Comment 38, posted at 07.12.16 10:24:23 by The hound Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 37) : Oh hell, then my memory is going down quicker than the Rand’s value

  • Comment 39, posted at 07.12.16 10:28:11 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • Rob I hope you don’t mind this link, but it is good for a lekker laugh

  • Comment 40, posted at 07.12.16 10:41:17 by KingRiaan Reply

    KingRiaanTeam captain
     
  • @Baylion (Comment 6) : So any idea on when the Lions announce their jerseys and what it’ll look like? I’ve been talking a bit of smack to a Lions fan on Twitter about who has the best jerseys for this coming season and need an indication on whether there may be some humble pie in my future.

    Sharks are definitely the best of the bunch announced so far and we know the Stormers’ jersey is probably going to be a plastic bag with a DHL logo or something glued on. The way things are going with the Kings these days they’ll probably get other teams surplus kit?

  • Comment 41, posted at 07.12.16 11:08:49 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 41) : The Lions jerseys will be launched tomorrow (Canterbury first launched the minors, keeping the best for last :lol: )

    Afaik the Stormers home jersey stays the same but I heard they are changing their red Cape Crusaders jerseys

  • Comment 42, posted at 07.12.16 11:23:24 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @KingRiaan (Comment 40) : Ha ha, lekker one, I was a bit sceptical when I saw Ollie le Roux’s son starting the video off.

  • Comment 43, posted at 07.12.16 12:41:14 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Baylion (Comment 42) : Jeepers the way things are going at WP they should just go up the road to Pollsmoor Prison and borrow their kit or they could stay with tradition but just change the stripes from blue to black and wear their number on the front.

  • Comment 44, posted at 07.12.16 12:49:55 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 43) : Beast’s face is classic

  • Comment 45, posted at 07.12.16 12:52:58 by KingRiaan Reply

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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 44) : :grin:

  • Comment 46, posted at 07.12.16 13:35:28 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • Hi everyone. I am pleased with the new jersey except for the price. R699 is way too much. What is your view?

  • Comment 47, posted at 07.12.16 14:28:03 by Q Reply

    QUnder 19 player
     
  • @Baylion (Comment 42) : glad to be part of the minnos!!! ;-)

  • Comment 48, posted at 07.12.16 15:48:23 by JD Reply
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  • @Q (Comment 47) : going rate for rugby jerseys.

  • Comment 49, posted at 07.12.16 16:18:49 by JD Reply
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  • @KingRiaan (Comment 36) : @robdylan (Comment 37) : no we won the pink cc match against the Cheetahs! One of the few occasions that I can say: “I know I was there!”

  • Comment 50, posted at 07.12.16 16:22:48 by JD Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 28) : @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 29) : @The hound (Comment 30) : it has a lot to do with merchandising or sales. Now they can potentially sell two jerseys to each supporter (like me I have home and away jerseys of 2014). Another reason is it gives supporters a choice if they don’t like the black they can then buy a white jersey.

  • Comment 51, posted at 07.12.16 16:34:15 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 49) : Yep, but that hardly fits in with the following blurb from yesterday….”Canterbury’s philosophy of rugby belonging to everyone and making products in the same inclusive spirit, ties into our vision”….

  • Comment 52, posted at 07.12.16 16:46:07 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 52) : yes and at R700 you will be included. Going rate of jerseys.

  • Comment 53, posted at 07.12.16 17:25:51 by JD Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 52) :

    You could buy a good quality knock-off at street market for say, R100 and donate R600 directly to the Sharks.
    That way you include the players and the Bangladeshi factory workers, but exclude the rent seeking fat-cats in between.

  • Comment 54, posted at 07.12.16 18:14:38 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 51) : And you get the collectors who buy every jersey of their team every year

  • Comment 55, posted at 07.12.16 19:02:21 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @fyndraai (Comment 54) : Yes you can but that’s a different market and a different supporter. You get the supporter who just want a team jersey and will still wear 19-voertsek’s jersey and is happy. But you get those who want the real thing of this year with all the latest logos and stuff. And will buy a new jersey should the logos change during the year.

    Different strokes

  • Comment 56, posted at 07.12.16 19:05:42 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Baylion (Comment 56) : for me it’s simple real supporters wear real gear! If I can’t afford the authentic Sharks gear I just don’t buy it and will happily wear the older stuff! But also like you said different strokes for different folks!

  • Comment 57, posted at 07.12.16 21:27:00 by JD Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 54) : No such thing as a good knock off. That’s why they are knock offs cut corners inferior fabric bad stitching washout dye.

  • Comment 58, posted at 08.12.16 07:58:34 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Baylion (Comment 42) : the temptation is strong but I will resist chirping you. Don’t like the possibility of having two Lion’s fans making me eat hat

  • Comment 59, posted at 08.12.16 08:04:04 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 51) : By that the supporters lose a sense of unity. Look at the all blacks, the stadiums are a total black out. England used to be similar before they also started chopping and changing jersey colours. You go to Twickenham and the whole place is totally white.

  • Comment 60, posted at 08.12.16 08:22:52 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 60) : Could never understand why the rugby guys missed out on a trick the soccer guys exploited years ago putting the players name and number on the jersey.
    In the soccer world jersey sales are massive business and the reason why soccer transfers are so huge is that when a popular player changes clubs his jersey sales go with him.
    Messi’s jersey sales must be bigger than the profits of Anglo American.

  • Comment 61, posted at 08.12.16 08:33:04 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 61) : @The hound (Comment 61) : To put it in perspective,Barcelona sell in excess of 1.15 million jerseys a year at a price of R1700,

  • Comment 62, posted at 08.12.16 08:44:17 by The hound Reply
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  • @Henkb (Comment 1) : @Baylion (Comment 6) : At the moment the Charity jersey is for players only. This might change nearer match time

  • Comment 63, posted at 08.12.16 09:46:20 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @The hound (Comment 61) : For about R100 the retailers will put a name and number of your choice on. Much cheaper all around than the manufacturer having to stock a number of different player versions of the same jersey

  • Comment 64, posted at 08.12.16 09:53:40 by Baylion Reply

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  • @Baylion (Comment 64) : They do that with the soccer jerseys too,differce being a cut goes to the player.

  • Comment 65, posted at 08.12.16 09:59:11 by The hound Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 59) : :lol: :lol:

  • Comment 66, posted at 08.12.16 10:18:29 by Baylion Reply

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  • @Baylion (Comment 66) : What time’s the Lions reveal by the way?

  • Comment 67, posted at 08.12.16 10:52:54 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 67) : 7pm

  • Comment 68, posted at 08.12.16 11:42:23 by Baylion Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 21) : It says comment failed but posts it anyways. Happens on my android phone dunno about the rest.

  • Comment 69, posted at 08.12.16 12:52:43 by coolfusion Reply

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  • So when do these shirts go on sale? Can’t exactly call it a jersey anymore.

  • Comment 70, posted at 08.12.16 12:55:03 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @Baylion (Comment 63) : Thank u, will keep an eye out for it

  • Comment 71, posted at 08.12.16 13:33:56 by Henkb Reply
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  • Looking good! I like the new jerseys a lot!
    Probably wont be buying one,the fabric just does not fit my ‘build’!haha….last one i bought was 2010 S14 Reebok!
    Need a new one though,have plenty before that,when XXL still meant XXL and not Small ;-)

  • Comment 72, posted at 08.12.16 13:53:45 by BarendL Reply
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  • @BarendL (Comment 72) : Cantab’s XXL is XXL, that’s my experience with the Lions jerseys anyway. T-shirt fit :grin:

  • Comment 73, posted at 08.12.16 14:22:03 by Baylion Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 62) : @Baylion (Comment 64) : think soccer and rugby supporters differ. A lot of soccer supporters will follow a player from team to team and will buy kit for the team he plays for just think of Messi, Rinaldo, Beckham. Rugby supporters (well male supporters anyway) tend to rather follow a team and will support a player whilst he plays for their team with an almost out of team out of heart attitude.

  • Comment 74, posted at 08.12.16 15:27:47 by JD Reply
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  • @BarendL (Comment 72) : @Baylion (Comment 73) : just buy a 4XL if it’s to big you can “grow into it”! ;-)

  • Comment 75, posted at 08.12.16 15:31:36 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 74) : Yes true, but it will still be cool to own something like a 96 Teichmann shirt.

  • Comment 76, posted at 08.12.16 15:49:32 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 58) :
    If the knock-off was manufactured in the same plant by the same people then the quality will be the same.If the knock-off was manufactured in a different plant using similar materials and techniques then the quality will still be the same.

    Most of the cost for branded products comes from the distribution channel and profits. These have no relationship with the quality of the product.

  • Comment 77, posted at 08.12.16 15:56:31 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 77) : Thats the power of the brand,its value has nothing to do with rational attributes and everything to do with emotional ones.Its the subliminal value you are exposed to every time you look at Tiger Wood’s golf cap or every time you watch the A.B’s lining up to do the Hakka in the Adidas triangle format.Its the under armor logo on Jordan Spieth’s shirt.The player and the brand are synonymous,
    Branding is probably one of the most sophisticated sciences in existence.
    Obvious branding is a no brainer, but the subtle subliminal branding is the stuff of dark arts,

  • Comment 78, posted at 08.12.16 16:17:20 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 78) : It’s why most of us would be prepared to pay twice as much for a T-shirt with a Nike logo on it than for an exactly the same one but with a Pep stores logo on it

  • Comment 79, posted at 08.12.16 16:20:35 by The hound Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 77) : @The hound (Comment 78) : I don’t know nearly enough of clothing sector to comment on why branded clothing is more expensive than “no name” clothes.
    However I do think running a big bussines like say Total Sport cost a lot of money not only for your shop rent but also advertising, paying personnel, utilities, etc where as standing on a corner selling knock off products does not have a lot of these costs. As for Nike with Tiger Wood or Under Armor with Jordan Spieth they pay those guys huge amounts of money to be “the face”/associated with their brand and they must thus charged a bit more than someone like Pep who does not sponsor anyone.

  • Comment 80, posted at 08.12.16 16:51:01 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 80) : Branding is one of the cornerstones of capitalism, most of the knockoffs come from China which is a communist country and doesn’t recognize the rules of copywrite that govern and protect brands.They actually don’t see anything wrong in ripping off other peoples product.They ride in on the back of an already established brand, without contributing a cent to its development, and reap all the benefits..

  • Comment 81, posted at 08.12.16 17:01:20 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 81) : spot on!

  • Comment 82, posted at 08.12.16 17:41:37 by JD Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 81) :

    Nope.

    Free markets and capitalism can exists perfectly fine without branding or copyright.
    These are just modern ways to perpetuate monopolies and is often hampers innovation and progress

  • Comment 83, posted at 08.12.16 18:14:43 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 83) : :lol: :lol: You must be joking.

    Top companies spend fortunes on R&D to ensure their products are meet strict quality and performance standards, only to be knocked-off with inferior quality copies claiming to be the same

  • Comment 84, posted at 08.12.16 18:41:09 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 59) : One thing the sharks did better was keeping one informed on twitter and FB. At the moment nothing from the Lions or cantab on either media

  • Comment 85, posted at 08.12.16 19:02:55 by Baylion Reply

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  • @Baylion (Comment 85) : Just saw the jersey on the Lions twitter account. First impression: design team phoned it in I’m afraid.

  • Comment 86, posted at 08.12.16 19:49:27 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Baylion (Comment 85) : Red with a taxi tire track running across the top third of the jersey which I guess is sort of representative of Jozi

  • Comment 87, posted at 08.12.16 19:54:36 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 83) : :shock: :shock: Eliminate copyrights, patents, and other protection of intellectual property and all incentive to innovate is out the window. Why bother developing that wonderful new innovation if someone will just steal the idea and undercut you at market. You need to stop drinking the Bernie Sanders kool-aid! :lol: :lol:

  • Comment 88, posted at 08.12.16 20:06:41 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 88) : True example, 6 friends come up with a concept for an innovative racer/cruiser sailboat, 30 foot and trailerable (no 30 foot trailerable boats available at that time). Establish a corporation, partner with a naval architect to design the boat and rig, and engineering company to design build specifications. Lay out significant money for above, and do not own naval architects design, only rights to manufacture. Partner with a Chinese company to build. Chinese company builds hull #1, sending videos and photos of progress and even inviting partners to tour facility. Boat completed and ready for sea trials, and does not show up…….hmmmm what happened? Then pictures start coming out of the boat in the water in some unknown location, and next thing you know a fleet of the boats are built and sold in Asia, without permission of the naval architect or original concept company. Company had to declare bankruptcy and go out of business while the Chinese company is selling boats hand over foot. Lawsuit filed in China, and guess what, naval architect and concept company won, amazing right? Yep, except the award was $20,000 (the build cost of the first boat), that is it, nothing more. So tell me how this is good for innovation???? This is a first hand story.

  • Comment 89, posted at 08.12.16 20:16:50 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 87) : :lol:

    I like the red one, a bit blurry on the image I pulled from the promo video

    http://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c60477806a0b7ffdf14b38ec00c0963c70ca37b0d9bb1817bdceefa5b7531cb3.png?w=800&h=653

    Not sure if I like the away one

    I think the Sharks take the jersey contest :)

  • Comment 90, posted at 08.12.16 20:17:17 by Baylion Reply

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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 89) : Oh, and the molds were made and owned by the naval architect and were never returned, value around $60,000.

  • Comment 91, posted at 08.12.16 20:19:15 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Baylion (Comment 90) : The Vodacom rugby twitter account has proper photos of home and away jerseys

  • Comment 92, posted at 08.12.16 20:40:29 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 88) : love the Bernie Sanders electric acid kool aid reference,68 in the Haight and the Bear is rolling in the shade

  • Comment 93, posted at 08.12.16 20:42:05 by The hound Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 92) : Nah, the red came out nearly cherise on those, supposed to be scarlet. And all shiny. Lighting, I think.

    starting to get better images through

  • Comment 94, posted at 08.12.16 20:47:55 by Baylion Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 93) : :grin:

  • Comment 95, posted at 08.12.16 22:28:57 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 88) :

    Da Vinci had no patent or copyright protection, yet did lots of innovation. Neither did Shakespeare ir Mozart. Gutenberg. Whomever invented the wheel, domesticated crops. The list goes on and on.

    IP has a roll in our modern economy, but the current regime borders on absurd. The 1st copy right law made by Congress was for around 6 years. Now it’s 100 years after the death of the creator. The color, shape and corners of the Iphone is patented. Happy Birthday to You (the song) is under copyright. Elvis and Michael Jackson’s heirs will extract rent from their art for 3 or 4 generations. Is this not absurd?

  • Comment 96, posted at 09.12.16 01:13:08 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 96) : You make my point for me….yes Da Vinci came up with loads of innovations, but……………how many of those innovations/ideas came to fruition? The artwork, but you do know that Da Vinci invented the helicopter right? Just never came to fruition, because once he built one, others would copy it and make all the money! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: The amount of functional innovation Da Vinci came up with on paper was immense, and a vast majority did not come to fruition until the 20th century, after the introduction of copyright and patent laws. Having personally dealt with patent applications, I can assure you it is a lot harder to get one than you may think, especially when it comes to maritime/naval patents (my personal experience).

  • Comment 97, posted at 09.12.16 02:31:18 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 96) : Quite simply, the amount of innovation that has come to fruition in the 20th Century is far more than all the innovation that has come to fruition throughout history prior to the 20th Century, and that is after the introduction of copyright and patent laws. Furthermore, the sheer amount of literature that has been written and retained since copyright laws is far more than all history before that. Yes you can call on a few absolute greats, like Chaucer and Shakespeare, or Da Vinci and Archimedes, etc, and compare that to the last 150 years. Sorry mate, but your argument does not hold water, just because someone can pop up every few hundred years and achieve greatness does not prove that copyright and patent laws do not encourage innovation to a huge extent.

  • Comment 98, posted at 09.12.16 02:42:52 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 96) : I have never been an i-phone guy, used android since the g-1, but if i-phone has designed a look that is distinct enough to make it identifiable, they should have the right to protect that. The song Happy Birthday….you got me, not even sure how that can be copyrighted, it is certainly not enforceable since it is sung at every birthday party in many parts of the world, and sometimes by professional performers….They should have sued Marilyn Monroe then for singing Happy Birthday to President Kennedy. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 99, posted at 09.12.16 02:48:35 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • Sometimes patent law actually hampers innovation.

    Famously so in aviation in the USA. By 1908, when Santos-Dumont made his short hop flight in Paris, the Wright brothers were already flying around in circles for more than 30 minutes. The USA was 5 years ahead for everyone else at this point, but when they entered WWI in 1917, they had to buy airplanes from France.
    Why? Because the moment the Wrights got their patent, they stopped developing the technology and sued everyone who tried.

    Another case is Kodak and digital cameras.

    Further innovation is rarely in the interest of the patent holder.

  • Comment 100, posted at 09.12.16 04:25:14 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 97) :

    DaVinci would have built a helicopter if only he had patent protection. ;)

    You got me there.

  • Comment 101, posted at 09.12.16 04:36:04 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 101) : Your opinions are absurd and misinformed, firstly DaVinci worked under patronage to amongst others the De Medichis and the Pope,he was paid to think and develop.The agreement beings ideas and his creations belonged to his patron, hence his massive amount of creation.
    The whole point of the discussion is that Sport would never have developed to the point that it has without the patronage of capitalistic branding.Sport needs brands and brands need audiences, and until there is a better way to bring sport and by default brands to the masses its television.
    The outdated sporting bodies and government intervention are holding back sport, and in the next decade these bodies will dissipate ,and the influence of the media and capitalistic brands and branding will grow.

  • Comment 102, posted at 09.12.16 05:41:02 by The hound Reply
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  • Wow, we ban politics on sharksworld, but this Comrade preaches communism all day long…

  • Comment 103, posted at 09.12.16 07:14:16 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @Baylion (Comment 90) : Luckily everyone has an opinion!

  • Comment 104, posted at 09.12.16 08:14:06 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 103) : that’s why I don’t even bother with those comments!!!

  • Comment 105, posted at 09.12.16 09:56:36 by JD Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 103) : I think it’s a pretty interesting intellectual discussion about contrasting economic models. If you’re really concerned that fyndraai is going to turn you into a communist if you read his posts, then I don’t know how to fix that problem! I’m certainly not going to moderate his posts because, to my mind, they don’t transgress any of the site rules.

  • Comment 106, posted at 09.12.16 10:10:50 by robdylan Reply
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  • to get back to the real discussion: let’s take a quick check here:

    Bulls launch a plain light blue jersey
    Cheetahs launch a plain white jersey with some orange detailing
    Sharks launch a plain black jersey
    Lions launch a plain red jersey

    I mean, apart from some natty embellishments, it seems everyone has put creativity back in the draw and gone back to basics for 2017.

    I bet you the Stormers play in a blue-and-white-hooped plastic bag

  • Comment 107, posted at 09.12.16 10:14:47 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 107) : I like the Sharks’ Durbs Tribal design

  • Comment 108, posted at 09.12.16 10:22:21 by Baylion Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 107) : does seems as if less is more for 2017!

  • Comment 109, posted at 09.12.16 11:00:27 by JD Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 107) : Obviously biased as hell on this one but the Sharks’ jersey is still the best of the bunch for me and a huge improvement on the 2016 jersey too. Not expecting much from the Stormers and Kings but who knows, maybe they’ll use recycled plastic bags and score a few point on the eco front.

    Bulls’ jersey would have been miles better if the collar design wasn’t borrowed from an Amish catalogue.

  • Comment 110, posted at 09.12.16 11:41:23 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 110) : Ive only seen the Sharks jersey but how bad can the Bulls collar be if Sharks fans are dissing it.

  • Comment 111, posted at 09.12.16 11:58:23 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 111) : Well, in keeping with the spirit of this thread I hope the Bulls patent that collar so that it never appears on a Shark jersey

  • Comment 112, posted at 09.12.16 12:18:43 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Baylion (Comment 73) : Okay thats good news, thank you
    @JD (Comment 75) : hahaha,yeah in the middle of trying to do the opposite :mrgreen:

  • Comment 113, posted at 09.12.16 13:34:34 by BarendL Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 112) : :lol: good one.

  • Comment 114, posted at 09.12.16 13:38:32 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @BarendL (Comment 113) : good luck hope you’re successful!

  • Comment 115, posted at 09.12.16 14:20:06 by JD Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 102) :

    I think we are mostly in agreement. Davinci and his patrons were able to benefit from his ideas without the need for patent and IP laws then.

    I also agree that branding makes and made some people very rich. I don’t agree that it is good for society in its current form though. Too many things are being patented that should not be. Copyrights are too long and too sweeping. Branding is fine, laws protecting brands are not.

    Eg. Some years ago Ralph Loren sued the US Polo association for infringing on his brand……Polo.

  • Comment 116, posted at 09.12.16 16:14:22 by fyndraai Reply
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  • By the way there is no need to fear. I’m not a communist or even a socialist. I’m a big fan of freedom and free markets. I’d like us to be able to freely exchange goods, services AND ideas.

    FYI.
    The last 3 changes to US copyright law were made shortly before Mickey Mouse was to enter the public domain.
    Some people say it was at the behest of Disney every time.

  • Comment 117, posted at 09.12.16 16:53:56 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 117) : sorry if I judged. Got a bit if personal problem with systems designed to make everyone equal and equally poor.

  • Comment 118, posted at 09.12.16 17:12:37 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 116) : Actualy you and I agree on very little, brands are the backbone of the capitalist society.
    The entire capitalism is built around protecting, growing, and consuming brands.Patent laws are designed to protect brands,It is not brands that are destroying society but human greed and gullibility.How many guys buying this new jersey need it, and how many want it because they want it.
    Brands understand human weakness and know exactly how to milk it.

  • Comment 119, posted at 09.12.16 22:34:42 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 119) : only the players needs the new jerseys the rest of us just want to need it!

  • Comment 120, posted at 09.12.16 23:20:07 by JD Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 117) : Tell me, do you buy no-name brand food or brand name? Both food but if you want a good coffee you buy douwe egbert not no-name. Or no-name baked beans or washing liquid.

    So, unless you only buy no-name (generic) stuff your argument do not gel with your actions

  • Comment 121, posted at 09.12.16 23:45:33 by Baylion Reply

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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 118) :

    There is no need to apologize and no need to fear equality. The ideal is for everyone to be more equally prosperous. It is only a threat to you if your wealth stems from the explotation of others.

  • Comment 122, posted at 10.12.16 01:18:41 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @Baylion (Comment 121) :

    Brands are valuable to corporations because it enables them to sell products at a price higher than what could have been commanded by utility and quality only.

    Or if I restate the above from the perspective of a consumer:
    When you buy a branded product you by definition pay more than you would have paid for an unbranded product of similar utility and quality.

  • Comment 123, posted at 10.12.16 01:33:31 by fyndraai Reply
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  • I’ve done work in a factory that made a branded and unbranded consumer product. The same inputs, the same process and the same quality standards all the way down to where they separate at the packaging machines.
    Now perhaps the brand logo was printed with premium ink and the glue for the wrapping was of superior quality, but you really have to be a special kind of idiot to want to pay more for the part that you throw in the trash before even using the product.

  • Comment 124, posted at 10.12.16 02:03:02 by fyndraai Reply
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  • Another example.

    A while ago I heard on the radio about a study that found that pharmacists and doctors were choosing generic medicines at a much higher rate than the general population.
    The reason was that they are well informed enough to understand that the product is the same. The flip side is that the masses prefered the brand name drugs due to ignorance.

  • Comment 125, posted at 10.12.16 05:45:26 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 122) : no, I know what the idea is. My liberal arts professor told me at a Peta convention. Its cute, til you run out of other peoples money.

  • Comment 126, posted at 10.12.16 06:19:43 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 125) : As this is a column on the Sharks new jersey,I presume from your argument that you resent the branding on the jersey and you would advocate that the Sharks play in a plain black t shirt.

  • Comment 127, posted at 10.12.16 08:09:24 by The hound Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 124) : You work on the assumption that all branded and unbranded items are of the same quality and that the only real difference is the branding. This simply is not true.

  • Comment 128, posted at 10.12.16 10:03:26 by Baylion Reply

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  • @fyndraai (Comment 123) : And a brand name is actually an asset on your balance sheet. It carries value.

  • Comment 129, posted at 10.12.16 15:33:50 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @Baylion (Comment 128) : Some cases yes some no. Some branded goods have a higher level of refinement and quality control. Some however follow same process. Its up to the consumer to not be a blind brand junky. I agree that we are an over stimulated people who can be persuaded to like or follow something simply because it sounds exclusive or the corporates throw enough marketing budget and repetitive brainwashing at it. We are constantly bombarded until we start thinking it’s our own idea to like something.

  • Comment 130, posted at 10.12.16 15:39:17 by coolfusion Reply

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  • Except for the sharks of course, sharkness is more of an identity than a brand….

  • Comment 131, posted at 10.12.16 15:40:45 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 131) :

    Agreed.

    Rene Girard calls it mimetic desire. We copy our desires from others. The more we perceive desire by others, the more desirable it becomes to us.

    This is innocent enough in marketing, but it’s also, according to Girard, behind violent behaviours, such as scapegoating and mob justice.

  • Comment 132, posted at 10.12.16 18:30:28 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 132) : Oh for fucksake I can just see the mob storming the Bastille in Nike capes,and Adidas boots
    Get over yourself and your pinko liberal values delivered from the suburban sanctity of a middle class neighbourhood and get back to the question ,in todays professional rugby, where would you like see the future control and direction coming from.
    Government funding administered through amateur sporting bodies, or Brand sponsorship driven through media channels.

  • Comment 133, posted at 11.12.16 07:37:09 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 133) :

    Stadiums packed with people willing to pay to be at and part of the spectacle.

    Empty stadiums is the most pressing issue in SA rugby today. Everything else will follow from and is dependent on that.

    As for shirts. They would sell more if they remove the big fat corporate names. Being a billboard is undignified. Somewhat dehumanizing even.

  • Comment 134, posted at 11.12.16 17:22:06 by fyndraai Reply
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  • Commies to the left, Rednecks to the right……Here I am stuck in the middle with you…

  • Comment 135, posted at 12.12.16 09:05:10 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 135) : If you stand in the middle of the road you stand a good chance of being run over both ways

  • Comment 136, posted at 12.12.16 10:02:32 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 133) : please let’s keep it civil. Thanks.

  • Comment 137, posted at 12.12.16 10:18:02 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 137) : no new news? Can’t we bribe someone for photo’s of the guys training in their new Canterbury kit!?

  • Comment 138, posted at 12.12.16 10:41:18 by JD Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 137) : :mrgreen: There you go, right down the middle. Nice and safe.

  • Comment 139, posted at 12.12.16 10:48:24 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 134) : I love being a walking billboard in my Sharks shirts if it means we can keep or sign top quality player!!!
    Can’t have it both ways my friend you have to choose: top team (with top quality players) and big sponsors (on clothing and all around stadium) or amateur team (without top players like Lambie, Twins, etc) without sponsors!

  • Comment 140, posted at 12.12.16 10:53:10 by JD Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 136) : For you, Im sure you remember it.

  • Comment 141, posted at 12.12.16 10:53:54 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • Must admit im still not a fan of the Canterbury collar but think the jerseys are pretty cool, they could grow on me. The Super hero one should have been the home jersey though.

  • Comment 142, posted at 12.12.16 13:11:11 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @JD (Comment 140) :

    The American football leagues, both NFL and College, do have it both ways. No billboards on the clothing and very minimal at the stadium. They sell plenty merchandise, have packed stadiums and massive TV contracts. Corporations line up to be associated with them, but they do not get to stand between the fan and the team or the fan and the player. The problem that you perhaps don’t see is that the prominence of corporate brands on your Sharks jersey and at your Sharks stadium actually weakens and dilutes your Sharks brand.

  • Comment 143, posted at 12.12.16 14:25:00 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 143) : I dont think you can compare the NFL and College scene with rugby in SA or even worldwide. It is the NFL/College Football sport as a whole that is hugely popular and as a result those residing in the specific state etc do buy up that teams merchandise whether they have sponsors logos on them or not. Rugby despite what we may think actually have a very insignificant following both in this country and worldwide when you look at population numbers. Rugby teams need sponsors money to survive, without it there is no rugby. Sponsors want advertising and product placement for their investment in order to justify it. So yes we can by all means have a sponsorless sharks jersey..but the guys wearing it wont be these professionals, it will be club amateurs and the games would be played during the day as lights couldnt be afforded.

  • Comment 144, posted at 12.12.16 14:46:06 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 144) : I hear you about the insignificant following but then you look at all these massive rugby stadiums dotted around the country and wonder if this is true…..or should that be said in the past tense.

  • Comment 145, posted at 12.12.16 16:28:23 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 145) : What you guys are missing is that the number of people watching the game is huge difference is they are not int he stadium ,or even in the city or in the country.

  • Comment 146, posted at 12.12.16 16:57:17 by The hound Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 143) : not even going to started in an discussion about this as you’re totally set in your view. For me I can’t see how having sponsorship has any influence on how players interact with supporters or weakens the Sharks brand. It bring money in to pay for development and players and except for NFL is done in all sports worldwide.

  • Comment 147, posted at 12.12.16 20:17:53 by JD Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 144) :

    Rugby may have a small following in SA, but it is also a generally wealthy following. IE. Rugby is a premium brand and should never have emulated soccer and acted as if it was a cheap mass market brand. Imagine Mercedes not only selling space on their car grills to McDonalds, but actually allowing the M to be larger than the 3-pointed star. How will that fit with the dignity of your typical Mercedes Benz drivers? I’d say about as well as a premium brand shirt with a big fat logo of a cheapo clothing store or a third rate wireless network on it.

    The are lots of possibilities for corporate tie ins. Sell naming rights to the stadium, the poles, the halftime show, the halftime, the stretchers, the sin-bin, the the babes and the bars. When you own a premium brand with wealthy, well educated customers, it’s really a bad idea to dilute it with cheap logos.

  • Comment 148, posted at 13.12.16 00:57:14 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 145) : We should probably ask when last were all those stadiums actually full? Perhaps the odd test match or a CC final a couple years ago but other than that not even close. Rugby stadiums here should be half the size they are currently.

  • Comment 149, posted at 13.12.16 07:56:19 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @fyndraai (Comment 148) : Whilst i get the point you are trying to make regarding a brand standing alone your comparisons are really very far off the mark. You cannot compare the Sharks brand to Mercedes or even McDonalds etc as neither of those brands require other corporate investment in order to be sustainable. Regarding your point on rugby supporters- yes they may be on the upper half of the wealth scale but all that means is they can afford a jersey or a ticket etc. But there isnt the volume to sell as many jerseys or seats as an NFL team or EPL team etc. Whether we like it or not the rugby teams rely heavily on the corporate sponsors for sustainability…hence the corporates hold the power. If we want that to change then the tickets prices probably need to be around R2k per game with a full stadium each game…now that i definitely not feasible, hence the Cell C logo etc.

  • Comment 150, posted at 13.12.16 08:03:09 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @fyndraai (Comment 148) : I actually agree with brand pollution on the Sharks jersey and would love to see a single sponsor preferably one like Adidas on the All Blacks jersey, that is a marriage made in sponsorship heaven, or Nike and Tiger Woods,
    We haven’t quite to Joe Plumbers yet, but we are edging that way.

  • Comment 151, posted at 13.12.16 08:45:50 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 151) : Should Supersport increase its stake to the 74% mark perhaps then we will see them as the sole sponsor? I think teams would love to have just 1 sponsor but they arent getting the required cash from 1 source hence the numerous ones.

  • Comment 152, posted at 13.12.16 09:12:29 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 151) : Interesting that many Kiwis are blaming AIG for the dilution of the All Blacks brand, especially now that the All Blacks Sevens aren’t doing well.

    Money, however, is an issue in professional sport and the competition for top players require a lot of money. Even Barca, who for years paid Unicef to wear their logo, have in recent years gone to a paying sponsor for the jersey front with Unicef moving to the back

  • Comment 153, posted at 13.12.16 10:17:54 by Baylion Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 152) : Increasing shareholding is merely a capital injection. Sponsors pay the bills

  • Comment 154, posted at 13.12.16 10:19:46 by Baylion Reply

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  • @Baylion (Comment 154) : No i know, was just hinting at the possibility of them doing it all but as you say there is very often separation of the two.

  • Comment 155, posted at 13.12.16 10:30:04 by SheldonK Reply

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  • I see the French are in Durban on 17 June

  • Comment 156, posted at 13.12.16 11:06:20 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Baylion (Comment 153) : Always laughed at the Sharks being interviewed post game in Cell C CAP to receive a Vodacom man of the match award.
    That must have burned the sponsorship manager at Vodacom’s arse like a Grey street mutton curry.

  • Comment 157, posted at 13.12.16 12:10:34 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 157) : hahaha i never even thought of that. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 158, posted at 13.12.16 12:13:11 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 150) :

    The thing is that the current model is not working. The jerseys are full, the stadiums empty and the players elsewhere.

    It’s time to admit that the soccer model is not working for rugby and look for something else. I’d say NCAA football is a good place to start. The ownership is non-profit, quasi-state and there is an amateur ethos similar to rugby. Stadiums are full. Fans buy merchandise with the team brands, not sponsors brands, on them. They get lots corporate money, but it’s for the corporation to be associated with, not displacing the team, in the minds of the fans.

    Example: In Alabama. Population ~4.8M, Median Income ~$40K.
    There are 5 division 1 football teams. The 2 major ones, Alabama and Auburn, draw crowds of ~90K at home-games, the 3 others around 30K per game.

  • Comment 159, posted at 13.12.16 14:24:10 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 157) :

    It’s a coup for Cell-C, but as a Sharks fan it’s pretty stupid to laugh when your team is associated with the “C” network.

  • Comment 160, posted at 13.12.16 14:28:16 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 159) : When you say the current model is not working do you mean the support/brand model or the product model of rugby? or both? Quite simply the support and fan base of rugby in this country is eroding and its got nothing to do with sponsors names on a jersey. Its got to do with a decline in support for the sport, other attractions, a weakening economy. Suddenly making rugby amateur again wont enlarge the fan base, it will do the opposite- just take a look at the failing club game in this country. Again you compare to the US which is so far off the mark as they have massive support bases irrespective of the team winning or losing, the jersey design and sponsorships. The sport itself has the support. Rugby support in this country is the problem…look at any rugby blog anywhere and you will struggle to find anything regarding positive support. And thats the problem right there…as trust me its not because of a logo on a shirt.

  • Comment 161, posted at 13.12.16 14:33:18 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @fyndraai (Comment 159) : Dont get me wrong, i fully get what you mean about creating a strong stand alone brand. I just feel the current problem is not the Sharks brand but rather the ‘rugby’ brand itself. There is a declining interest in rugby in general due to numerous factors. I think the first task is to get people interested in the sport again and once that interest is there then yes the individual team brands can be improved and made self sustaining. But without that initial interest in the product (rugby) improving the individual team brands is pointless. You can have the most amazing air conditioning brand but in the Arctic you arent going to get much support as there is no interest in the actual product.

  • Comment 162, posted at 13.12.16 14:46:48 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 162) : As long as the pay channel has exclusive rights on rugby the struggle will continue. Currently top games, whether test or SR, pull a maximum of about 600k viewers when there are 3m+ rugby viewers on the public channels left high and dry

  • Comment 163, posted at 13.12.16 14:54:38 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Baylion (Comment 163) : Without exclusive rights Supersport wouldnt have the bucks to invest the money they have in the Sharks. So kinda a catch 22 there. Those wanting rugby on the public tv channels arent going to be spending any money on the rugby and actually buying tickets or merchandise as its beyond their means. Perhaps delayed viewing on public tv is a possible solution.

  • Comment 164, posted at 13.12.16 15:05:58 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 161) :
    Not saying it should be amateur and I specifically used Alabama as a place where there are not more people or more money than in SA.

    Agree that rugby support has been on a long steady decline. I recall SR attendence in the late 90s as being ~35K per game. This decline cannot be only because of the economy or the rugby product as both had been strong at times without altering the trend.

  • Comment 165, posted at 13.12.16 16:14:45 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 165) : The problem is that the core product hasnt really improved since the 90s when super rugby was a new an exciting product. There are to many other attractions now and with the instant gratification generation now coming through they dont have the will or patience to sit through a rugby game. Trust me the wane in support is not about the brands on the jersey- i think majority of the population could tell you who the Sharks, Bulls , Stormers are but ask them who the sponsors are on the jerseys and very few could tell you. If the individual brands want to build themselves up then the starting point is regaining public interest in the core product

  • Comment 166, posted at 13.12.16 16:21:04 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @fyndraai (Comment 160) : I take offense at your comment ,The only stupid person here is you and you confirm it with every post

  • Comment 167, posted at 13.12.16 16:37:07 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 164) : I accept that it’s not a simple issue and SABC is never going to pay the monies SS is paying but think of the advertiser revenue that can be generated and a co-op agreement between SABC and SARU on advertising revenue could be an option.

    And there are a number of options for less prominent games

    - 1st Division CC
    - the CC games that are not shown
    - delayed broadcasts on tests and SR games
    - local tests on both media like cricket
    - junior rugby games

  • Comment 168, posted at 13.12.16 18:01:42 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 166) :

    That explanation does not really work for me.
    Football in the USA and football (soccer) in Europe has remained unchanged for decades, there are plenty other attractions in those markets also and they have the same cultural trends regarding gratification.
    American football and soccer matches are both longer than rugby matches anyway.

  • Comment 169, posted at 13.12.16 20:49:59 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 165) : @fyndraai (Comment 169) : Here is the problem you have comparing to NCAA Football or any other sports……Any donation made to the university is considered tax deductible, and if the donation includes tickets to events, then 80% of the entire donation is deductible. This is drastically different to any professional sports and simply WILL NOT WORK for professional rugby anywhere in the world. Yes there are loads of corporate donations to university sporting programs, but that is because those donations are tax deductible. Donations to professional sports teams and organizations in the USA are not tax deductible, and that is why you see little if no corporate sponsorship of American professional sports. Sorry mate, comparison to NCAA even in Alabama, is simply not a valid comparison, you are comparing apples to aircraft carriers!

  • Comment 170, posted at 13.12.16 21:34:55 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 170) :

    I think your statement is a bit misleading.

    Donations to universities is tax deductible. If the donation grants you the right to buy football tickets, it becomes only 80% tax deductible. The cost of the tickets is never tax deductible.

    Sponsorship of professional teams is not a donation, it’s a business expense and the tax treatment is pretty similar the world over. I cannot see why that would account for the lack of logos on NFL uniforms

  • Comment 171, posted at 14.12.16 00:17:46 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 171) : Misleading???? I said exactly what you said about the 80% deductible, read my post again….I said exactly what you said, sponsorship of a pro team is not deductible, donation to a University sports program is deductible. Why take a business expense to sponsor a pro team when you can make a tax deductible donation to a university. Sorry mate, I was spot on, and nothing in your post contradicts what I said.

  • Comment 172, posted at 14.12.16 01:14:58 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 171) : And the reason businesses sponsor sports teams outside the USA is because university sports in the rest of the world is nowhere near as big as in the USA. Therefore, businesses outside the USA have no option for sports sponsorship other than for pro teams, in the USA, it is far more cost effective to donate the money to a university sports program. And while they may not get the logo sponsorship on the jerseys, there is enough publicity with large donations that the business benefits nonetheless.

  • Comment 173, posted at 14.12.16 01:19:15 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 171) : :lol: :lol: Perfect example of argument for argument’s sake. I post something, you respond by repeating what I posted and preface it by saying I was misleading. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: ;-) ;-)

  • Comment 174, posted at 14.12.16 01:24:23 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 171) : I know you love a good debate, but this response was pushing that just a bit too far. ;-) ;-)

  • Comment 175, posted at 14.12.16 01:25:48 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Baylion (Comment 168) : Definitely some good suggestions there. I just wonder how hard the SABC really pushes and argues for a share of the rugby coverage. And then we assume that people will actually watch the coverage. Some will for sure…but how many i dont know.

  • Comment 176, posted at 14.12.16 08:20:27 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @fyndraai (Comment 169) : What do you attribute the waning interest in rugby support then? If you think its because of logos on a jersey i think you are way off the mark.

  • Comment 177, posted at 14.12.16 08:21:56 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 177) :” Record numbers of spectators and viewers have engaged with the tournament. Rugby World Cup 2015 has welcomed millions of fans to host cities, Fanzones and venues, including an estimated 460,000 fans travelling from overseas. Over one million fans enjoyed the 15 official fanzones, spread across the country in each host city plus Rugby, the birthplace of the game, and London’s Trafalgar Square.The All Blacks’ World Cup victory was watched by a global television audience of 120 million.”
    Shit imagine how big it could have been if we took the logos off the jersey. :!:

  • Comment 178, posted at 14.12.16 10:25:52 by The hound Reply
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  • Seriously rugby interest has never been higher, even in this country, the emphasis on how it is viewed has shifted fro the stadium to the home.
    This is the fault of the Union’s who have done sweet F.A. to improve the the stadium experience, in the past 20 years.

  • Comment 179, posted at 14.12.16 10:29:04 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 179) : As you say interest may be up but its not interest to go watch a live game or buy merchandise etc. The interest is to watch it at home and drink their own beers and have their own food with the option to flip between channels and games. With all that renewed interest in the sport in Europe we still dont see the english seeing the need to play their provincial/club games in stadiums with capacities of more than 20k. The French seem to be able to get good numbers to games but the southern hemisphere attendances are really poor…must be the logo hate down south :cool:

  • Comment 180, posted at 14.12.16 10:38:22 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 180) : We still sell out the stadium for Internationals.
    But a huge wake up call for the powers to be must be the Cape Town 7′s,wonderful atmosphere ,excellent organization all in a stadium that the purists will tell you is not conducive to rugby, utter bullshit.
    Now imagine if we could reproduce that in our own ”not conducive for rugby stadium.”

  • Comment 181, posted at 14.12.16 10:51:36 by The hound Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 77) : I must disagree about quality. I speak from experience. I bought a knock off stormers jersey to wash the shit from my dogs arse since it gets stuck in the. Long hair. After only a few washes it came apart and was not nearly as draught and absorbent of shit as the original Stormers jersey……

  • Comment 182, posted at 14.12.16 10:55:11 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @fyndraai (Comment 77) : I must disagree about quality. I speak from experience. I bought a knock off stormers jersey to wash the shit from my dogs arse since it gets stuck in the. Long hair. After only a few washes it came apart and was not nearly as durable and absorbent of shit as the original Stormers jersey……

  • Comment 183, posted at 14.12.16 10:55:35 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @The hound (Comment 181) : Yeh i read an article where they said that attendances for ‘special events’ such as an international or 7s tournament will attract good crowds but the ordinary weekly rugby doesnt hold any attraction for fans and there is very little interest in going to watch it live as apposed to on tv. Tough to see how they can change that though…think the Sharks biggest stuff up was changing what was allowed on the outer fields in terms of braaing etc.

  • Comment 184, posted at 14.12.16 11:01:10 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 184) : They have done nothing to change the match day experience for twenty years, at one time match day was the greatest show in town, now days its a tired regurgitation of the same old shit,
    They have just taken the fans loyalty for granted, year after year.
    Millenials have grown up with this show and associate it with something their parents do, a sure kiss of death in this socially mobile world.

  • Comment 185, posted at 14.12.16 11:09:51 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 185) : No i agree with you on those points. Im just not sure what they can change that would make a tangible difference. They tried the music before and that bombed. So not sure really? What would you like to see?

  • Comment 186, posted at 14.12.16 11:18:46 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 186) : The same atmosphere as the Cape Town7′s,basically the marketing people marketed that event at 18 -30,where as the current game at K.P is probably 60 .

  • Comment 187, posted at 14.12.16 11:24:51 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 187) : I get what you are saying. The Highlanders have done it to an extent with a party stand for the university students where the tickets prices are affordable and access to drinks are easy etc. So yes i think they could make better use of the ticket zones. I think one of those eye in the sky cameras with a live feed to the big screen would be cool. Parking needs to be affordable and not the same price as a match ticket. there needs to be braai zones and entertainment zones afterwards. Perhaps adoption of the soccer idea of having a DJ/MC playing before the game and during interruptions to amp up the crowd. Give away small sharks flags on seats etc.

  • Comment 188, posted at 14.12.16 11:37:25 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 188) : I have a reason for going to the game I have friends I have sat with for years, but my kids have absolutely no reason to go.
    I watch the game, live and go home and watch it again on catch up.
    My kids think that is very sad and in their time poor world they have only time to watch it once.

  • Comment 189, posted at 14.12.16 12:02:10 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 189) : I think for the younger generation going to watch a game is very little about the actual rugby game although they want the team to win but its more about the social interaction aspect of it. So for them the rugby game is more of the sideshow not the main event. It would be very interesting to see the average age of fans attending provincial games in Eng, France, NZ and SA…think it could be quite eye opening

  • Comment 190, posted at 14.12.16 12:29:54 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 187) : 7′s as a whole is slap and tickle party fare. No matter where in the world the tournament is played that is what the crowd is expecting, I suspect it would be the same in Durban, Jozzie or Pta without having to actually go out and target a certain age group.Its a once off easy sell that would not be sustained for a whole season on a home and away basis. Its basically the circus coming to town on its annual route.

  • Comment 191, posted at 14.12.16 13:06:43 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 191) : I agree with most of what you say, but the fact is that7′s proves that with a little innovation rugby can be a wonderful occasion,.
    The rugby administrators have yet to realise the number one premise of Professional sport that you are not competing with other rugby games or even other sports but you are competing with all other forms of entertainment.
    Most of those other forms have changed to cater for the times.
    When rugby becomes something my parents go to, order the coffin.

  • Comment 192, posted at 14.12.16 13:31:45 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 192) : Yep, agree they must somehow harness the younger generation to actually come to the stadium and not just have a passing interest in the results and that is becoming an increasingly harder sell made all the harder when the home team underperforms.

  • Comment 193, posted at 14.12.16 13:45:09 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 193) : Could begin by moving out of that rotting grunge pit into the palace next door.

  • Comment 194, posted at 14.12.16 13:53:24 by The hound Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 182) : hahahaha funny boet thanx for making my day!!!!

  • Comment 195, posted at 14.12.16 14:06:33 by JD Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 190) : @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 193) : @The hound (Comment 194) : when I was younger we would make a day of it and drive to Bloem to go watch Cheetahs vs Sharks. Petrol and tickets were cheap and we stopped to braai next to the road. All we had was time as there were no cell phones and internet to keep us busy and out of trouble on a Saturday.
    Since then a lot has changed and people don’t stop for a braai next to the road as it’s seemed as unsafe to do so. Cell phones, internet and other stuff offers quick satisfaction and that’s what our children is growing up with. Just take 7′s and T20 cricket action all the way or it’s boring and for old folks like me.
    For me the only way to change this is to make rugby an attractive family activity with meeting the players having a braai before and after the game and some entertainment for the kids.
    Maybe if I lived closer to the Tank or other stadiums I would have a different view but for me attracting families to allow children to grow up with it and love it is the way to get them when they grow up to return to the stadium with their families.

  • Comment 196, posted at 14.12.16 14:28:33 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 196) : Agree, somehow game day must incorporate an experience that is linked with whatever is trending on the cyber front. It seems that the days of when balls ruled brains have been well and truely replaced by electronic devices ruling brains.

  • Comment 197, posted at 14.12.16 14:48:44 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 197) : Every time I go to a game there is a half wit, usually a female sitting in my line of site who spends the entire game totally transfixed on her fucken cell phone, they don’t even look up when a try is scored.This obsessive behavior is actually tragic

  • Comment 198, posted at 14.12.16 15:16:36 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 198) : haha ive had that exact same experience. Had a bunch of women behind me during the test match discussing who posted what on fb.

  • Comment 199, posted at 14.12.16 15:34:07 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 194) : We’ll probably move sooner or later. I wish we could play one game there next year and get a feel for the place.

  • Comment 200, posted at 14.12.16 15:56:27 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 200) : Im punting a preseason warm up game there…

  • Comment 201, posted at 14.12.16 16:10:47 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 197) : @The hound (Comment 198) : @SheldonK (Comment 199) : yes to get youngsters attracted you will have to do something tech related. As for watching your phone and not the live rugby unfortunately there’s no medicine to fix stupid not even quickslim will help!!! ;-)

  • Comment 202, posted at 14.12.16 16:11:04 by JD Reply
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  • This is a worldwide problem. There was a viral video of a woman walking in a mall looking at her cellphone and stepped right into a pool of water. The video was from security camera footage, and the security folks were heard laughing when she did that, and she sued them…..NUTS….I saw a mother walking across a road with her kid in front of her, with both her hands on his shoulders guiding him across the road while he never took his eyes off his cell phone….NUTS……

  • Comment 203, posted at 14.12.16 19:33:00 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 177) :

    Neglecting and cheapening your brand, leads to decreasing fan loyalty, which in turn leads to abandonment whenever the team struggles.
    Neglecting the game-day experience and not enough effort to try and fill the stadiums.

    It seems many in SA rugby believe that the TV contract is the be-all and there is no need to fill the stadiums. The problem with that attitude is a basic misunderstanding of human behavior. Humans copy their behaviors and desires from other humans (google: Mimetic Desire). A full stadium creates the appearance of a desirable match-day experience to other humans who will in turn expend more effort and money to also be a part of it. IE. Packed stadiums leads to more packed stadiums and higher TV viewership and empty stadiums leads to the opposite.
    What’s trending? Creating a buzz. Creating the impression that the rich and the famous are involved and that you’re missing out if you’re not there.
    These are very basic principles of marketing and branding that SA rugby had completely neglected.

    I will go back to the example of Alabama, because with 4.8M people and a median income of $40K, I believe the football market in Alabama is roughly the same size as the rugby market in South Africa.
    Every year, there will be around 4 or 5 Saturdays where over 200,000 people in Alabama attend a football match in person. I cannot think of a similar amount of people in South Africa at rugby matches on the same day ever.
    These football matches last around 4-hours and objectively, the in-person experience is not as good as rugby’s. The attendance figures persist, even in years when the teams struggle.

    The question is then: Why are people in Alabama more passionate about their version of football than people in South Africa?

    If you don’t agree with my explanations I’m interested in your’s.

  • Comment 204, posted at 14.12.16 20:29:22 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 204) : Number of students at Alabama University 38,000, number of students at Auburn 28,000. Based on stadium size for both universities, 40% of the attendance are students. You need to consider that when seeing full stadiums. I would venture to say another 40% are alumni, leaving only 20% of the seats available to the general public. So basically you are only seeing 40,000 in Alabama attending for any reason other than being a student or alumnus.

  • Comment 205, posted at 14.12.16 21:05:04 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 205) :

    I’m quite certain that not every enrolled student attend football matches, so no, some %, but not 40%.

    My experience from living in Alabama is that people are fans of either Auburn or Alabama, regardless of whether they are alumni or family of alumni or not at all. It is simply the sport in Alabama and everyone is either for Auburn or Alabama.

  • Comment 206, posted at 14.12.16 21:43:23 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 204) : I do see where you are coming from regarding neglecting the brand, however i dont believe that having numerous sponsors on the jersey does that, as i said ask anyone in the street who the Sharks are and they could probably tell you assuming they are literate (a big assumption in this country)…however ask those same people who sponsors the sharks and i bet a lot would struggle to answer..some would just say Cell C…some would probably say Mr price. So i still think the Sharks brand is stronger than those on the jersey. I do agree that the match day experience needs attention…my question though is what can realistically be done to make a tangible difference? A lot of people say the match day experience needs to be better but when asked for realistic suggestions then it becomes trickier to answer.
    Also just food for thought- Varsity Cup attendances are pretty much to capacity every week…why? Because entry is basically free, cheap beer, ease of access to the grounds, and then they also support their varsity with their peers playing.

  • Comment 207, posted at 15.12.16 08:26:18 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 207) : ja like you say easy to say improve match day experience but how? I have one or two ideas but not sure how and if it will work.
    Why not have school and club teams playing before the main game like they did when I was a youngster? Family and friends of players would be at the stadium and would probably stay for the main game.
    Ticket prices should be lower. Money lost by cheaper tickets could be offset by selling more food and drinks at the game as more people would possibly attend the games.
    Get registered supperter clubs to have a braai at the stadium after the game. Some players (on a rotational base) could attend these braais. Saw they did a quick meet and greet after the game in Cape town.

  • Comment 208, posted at 15.12.16 12:22:20 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 208) : I think some of your ideas have merit. As you say you need to get people into the stadium (via ticket/parking prices) and once they in they will hopefully spend on food and drink etc. The idea i have is to use the different ticket zones to make it appealing to the various people attending. So a University/Party zone, a Family zone, a Premier zone, General zone. Then target each zone with appealing ticket prices, drinks specials, giveaways, promos in the zones etc. and then try recreate that on the outer fields after the game too.

  • Comment 209, posted at 15.12.16 12:36:34 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 209) : not going to be easy to change attendance figures but I’m sure if they were to listen to us it could be solved soon ;-)

  • Comment 210, posted at 15.12.16 14:01:00 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 210) : Going to be interesting to see the public’s reaction to rugby in 2017…

  • Comment 211, posted at 15.12.16 14:12:27 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 211) : ja hard to say but unless results improve I think teams might find it hard to attract decent crowds.

  • Comment 212, posted at 15.12.16 14:37:51 by JD Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 207) :

    I can’t say it will work in SA or even be possible, but here is some of what I’ve come across.

    New stadiums. Both the Atlanta football and baseball teams are moving out of stadiums that were built new for the Olympics in 1996. The football team felt theirs was just not up to spec anymore. The new stadium is going up next door and the old one will be demolished with in the next few months. The baseball team is moving to a new stadium in a suburban county.

    The old baseball stadium was the brand new Olympic stadium in 1996 and was reconfigured at considerable cost for baseball afterwards. It has bars, clubs, restaurants, game-arcades and play-ground. It’s geared towards getting people through the gates, whether they actually watch the game is secondary.

    Tie ins with other events. Military day, veterans days, fan appreciation day, Nascar day. Nascar day normally result in a sell out crowd at the baseball game.
    Sideshows. Music, kiss cam, dance cam, singalongs, half-time shows, prizes, drones dropping T-shirts, pretty girls etc. These also provide corporate tie-in options. The Toyota half-time show, the Goodyear blimp, the Delta 7th inning stretch.

    Balls with serial numbers that gets registered whenever something happens. People will pay good money for the ball that Lambie carried when he handed off Schalk Burger that time. Or the one from Ruan Pienaar’s kick. Frankly, every ball kicked into the stands should become the property of the person who catches it. The culture of balls being thrown back onto the field is a bit quaint now that rugby is professional.

    Players signing autographs and interacting with fans, especially on those balls and shirts that had just found random owners. Players should never be seen getting off the bus wearing earphones and in their own world, as if they are just visiting the stadium . They are professionals and part of a team that also includes the fans and should act that way. Suites in and out perhaps. No funny boots, headgear or mouth guards. Everything on the field must be part of the team uniform. Phase out the sponsor names on the jerseys. Rugby is not soccer. Rather sell shirts with player names on them.

    Work with the TV network to avoid showing empty seats in the stadium. Penalize season ticket holders who’s seats are not filled every match. Create a buzz in the city with lots of events. Broadcast games on local radio with a commentator that uses US, WE, OUR…. to refer to the local team.

    Be part of the city. have a high profile friendly relationship with local political leaders. black out the TV broadcast in the local market unless that stadium is full. Compensate the fans for poor results by sometimes getting the players/coach to “personally” buy up unsold tickets to show penance.

  • Comment 213, posted at 15.12.16 20:21:15 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 213) : Awesome ideas.

  • Comment 214, posted at 16.12.16 10:48:38 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 213) : I know we are often on opposite sides of debates, but you make some excellent points here. Only one that you may have a hard time implementing is penalizing season ticket holders for not filling their seats. I know this is something that could not happen in the USA, legally once you buy those tickets, it is your choice as to whether you wish to attend or not, a penalty would not hold up in court (in the USA). Not sure how that would work in SA, but in general I think that you are starting to tread on dangerous ground when you penalize people for not utilising something they have paid for (what if someone falls ill the day of the game and does not have time to find someone else to attend in their place). Anyway, I like all the other points you have made. I enjoy our debates whether we agree or disagree.

  • Comment 215, posted at 16.12.16 12:26:45 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 215) : maybe dont penalise for not showing up. But reward for showing up. 100% attendance gets you 40% discount on next years ticket or something like that. Could work. If I cant make it to the game, Ill make sure someone does.

  • Comment 216, posted at 16.12.16 12:57:48 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 215) : @fyndraai (Comment 213) : @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 216) : rewards works way better than punishment. It will take time but hope Sharks management can get it right to attract morebpeoplento games.

  • Comment 217, posted at 16.12.16 21:16:52 by JD Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 216) : I like it….great idea.

  • Comment 218, posted at 16.12.16 21:19:50 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • I was told that at UGA, the students may buy discounted tickets for family, but if those seats stay empty the student may be blacklisted from buying again.

    So not a monetary penalty, but rather a status penalty where your season tickets the next year may be less desirable seats.

    Or positively, encourage seasonticket holders to resell their seats by setting up a legal secondary market. The team can increase revenue by getting a cut on the resale and be able to sell season tickets at increased prices if the holders know they may be compensated for games they cannot attend.

  • Comment 219, posted at 16.12.16 21:24:46 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 216) : The more I think about it the more I like it. Not only does it encourage greater attendance at games, but it also would encourage those who may be on the fence about season tickets next year to choose to get them. It is such an excellent idea I am surprised nobody has done it yet. Great brainstorming, someone comes up with an interesting idea that may not work and someone else refines it into something that can most certainly work and work well. I hope the Sharks consider this……

  • Comment 220, posted at 16.12.16 21:27:57 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 219) : I’ll check with my nephew and let you know if that is true about UGA ;-) I like WICB’s suggestion offering incentives to those ticket holders who fill the seats for 100% of the games. I like the ideas being discussed.

  • Comment 221, posted at 16.12.16 21:30:57 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 219) : I am guessing that what UGA does is an “unofficial” policy, whereby there is no actual blacklist, but if one of those students tries to get tickets, there are just none available.

  • Comment 222, posted at 16.12.16 21:33:47 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 213) : I definitely think you have some good ideas. As you say i dont think a lot would work in a SA environment and some things have been tried before with minimal impact. But some of those things could definitely work..unfortunately a lot of those promotional things etc require money…sponsors money and hence the logos on the jersey which is what prompted this whole discussion. Until teams are fully privately owned and funded i cannot see rugby moving away from no sponsors on the jerseys. Just something to remember…for non season ticket holders it would cost a family of 4 roughly between R460 and R500 for just tickets and parking. In this economy its very difficult for families to justify that expense weekly.

  • Comment 223, posted at 19.12.16 07:51:08 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 223) : and that could double or tripple quickly when food, drinks and petrol is added!!!

  • Comment 224, posted at 19.12.16 13:25:48 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 224) : Most definitely. Becomes very tough for families to justify. So perhaps they shouldnt target market families and rather go for the young professional or student…

  • Comment 225, posted at 19.12.16 13:36:27 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 223) :
    I heard last week that NBA tickets average $125. $500 for a family of 4. Before parking, food, memorabilia ect.

  • Comment 226, posted at 19.12.16 15:48:35 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 226) : Comparing our economy to the US is very tough though.. I know tickets arent cheap in the States or UK, but neither is their tv coverage. The tv coverage here is relatively cheap for very wide coverage.

  • Comment 227, posted at 19.12.16 16:03:04 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 227) :

    Most NFL games (including all the play-offs and Superbowl) are free to air. So is a whole day of NCAA football on Saturdays. NBA, Baseball and Hockey are on cable channels for the most part, but interestingly, the more popular an event, the more likely it is to be on one of the broadcast networks for free.

    It takes time and effort to get to the point where your games become “must attend” or “must see” cultural events.The thinking in SA Rugby is still that they must invest in player-base development, when they should be investing in fan-base development. They’re measuring the sport by number of registered players and number of affiliated clubs, when they should be measuring by number of attending spectators and revenue per spectator.

  • Comment 228, posted at 19.12.16 16:43:17 by fyndraai Reply
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  • I have 2015 World cup Bok shirt and interestingly it lacks the big disgusting letters saying SASOL/ABSA/VODACOM on the chest.

    I’m thinking that the Rugby World Cup is still a desirable brand and more profitable whilst undiluted by everyone’s big letters, but I’m not sure any sport or team with big letters will ever be able to turn back the clock though.

  • Comment 229, posted at 19.12.16 16:51:29 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 225) : personally I don’t think there’s enough students / young professionals in and around Durbs to allow for it to work. To many other distractions and limited time before they too become a family.
    Will have to do some family marketing. Getting kids into the stadium and enjoying live rugby so that they in turn take their kids/families. Also potential for 20-30 years of buying season tickets as opposed to 5-10 years of students. But for sure both should be catered for.

  • Comment 230, posted at 19.12.16 16:54:02 by JD Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 229) : world cup regulations prohibits those sponsor/advertisements on jerseys. It’s the same reason why the Bok emblem shifts to the arm/sleeve during world cups.

  • Comment 231, posted at 19.12.16 17:00:46 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 231) :

    Why do those regulations exist?

    If sports teams can make more money with billboard shirts, then surely WR can too.
    Or do they calculate that the billboard shirts will harm their brand and the image of the World Cup event to the point that they lose more than what is to be gained?

  • Comment 232, posted at 19.12.16 18:30:42 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 232) : I think the reason is that RWC has their own sponsors who would not be happy if each team’s sponsors got to advertise in the RWC without having to pay a cent to the RWC.

  • Comment 233, posted at 19.12.16 19:38:46 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 232) : @Dancing Bear (Comment 233) : it’s like Bear said IRB don’t get any money for the team sponsors. To try and maximise their own earning they want to try to ensure no rival advertisements. Just think about Cell C Sharks players winning Vodacom man of the match!!!
    Same thing happens at sport stadiums like Free State were you can only buy Twizza cold drinks.

  • Comment 234, posted at 19.12.16 20:20:35 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 234) : Correct, the IRB would have a hard time finding sponsors for the RWC if team sponsors can advertise for free.

  • Comment 235, posted at 19.12.16 20:27:24 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 235) : especially if team sponsors are competitors!

  • Comment 236, posted at 19.12.16 22:15:11 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 236) : :lol: if the team sponsors are not the same companies as the RWC sponsors then they are competitors! ;-) :mrgreen:

  • Comment 237, posted at 19.12.16 22:38:52 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 237) : was going for director competition like Coke vs Twizza or Vodacom vs Cell C. Don’t think Pepsi will mind a Cell C add but will flip if a Coke add is done!

  • Comment 238, posted at 20.12.16 02:04:57 by JD Reply
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  • What stops them from putting their own sponsers on the team shirts?

  • Comment 239, posted at 20.12.16 02:24:47 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 239) : The contracts the individual teams have with their own sponsors. World Rugby has said they cant display individual sponsors but they can stipulate that World Rugby sponsors logos must be displayed. There are many factors at play for why fan attendance at games particularly in SA are low for domestic games, but logos on a jersey definitely isnt one of them as most people wouldnt be able to tell you what logos are on the jersey but can tell you who the Sharks are.

  • Comment 240, posted at 20.12.16 07:57:23 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 235) : as well as the Twizza Cheetahs if they sell Coke at the stadium ;-)

  • Comment 241, posted at 20.12.16 15:06:56 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 241) : I am often prone to hyperbole…. ;-) :mrgreen:

  • Comment 242, posted at 20.12.16 16:25:05 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 242) : please don’t use big words that I have to Google before understanding what you say! Stuff like that takes me forever to figure out!!! :lol: :mrgreen:

  • Comment 243, posted at 20.12.16 18:24:29 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 243) : It takes you “forever” to figure out??? Seems you’re prone to hyperbole as well! :mrgreen: :lol:

  • Comment 244, posted at 20.12.16 18:36:57 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 244) : you know it!!! :twisted:

  • Comment 245, posted at 20.12.16 19:44:00 by JD Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 240) :

    American teams always brand themselves by city or region. Denver Colts, Carolina Panthers ect.
    It’s pretty obvious that reason is that there are a cross section of people that may not care much about the sport, but care enough about the city or region’s competition with rivals to buy the shirt or go to the game.
    Only the marginal fans are effected by this, but it’s the marginal fans that matters if the team wants to grow. It’s also these intagible attachments that compell fans to show up when the team is bottom of the log.

    Nobody has an intagible attachment to Cell-C. Certainly the sponsor do not win the Sharks any fans. The whole point of the payment is for CellC to win some Shark fans.
    Most probably, the sponsor cost the team a some fans. I’m not so unique that there are not others that share my aversion.
    The only thing that’s in doubt is whether, the team loses more in fan money than what they gain in sponsor money.

    The sponsor money is a big chunk up front and easy to see. Tbe fan losses are slow and accumulate over time. Intangible. One day you rub your eyes and the stadium is empty and then Cell-C will drop you because they cane for your fans and you don’t have any anymore.

  • Comment 246, posted at 21.12.16 01:43:40 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 246) : You talk a lot about American sports so i assume you are based there and hence see things from that perspective. Id love to ask some fans why the no longer support the Sharks because Cell C is sponsoring…because i cannot think of 1 good reason why. The very vast majority of people in SA can identify with The Sharks or the Natal Sharks…very very few when asked who the rugby team is in this province would tell you its the Cell C Sharks. I truly dont believe the Cell C sponsorship overshadows the Sharks brand. The sponsorship is however vital for the Sharks at every level not just the senior side. We can disagree on this but the Cell C sponsorship definitely does more good than harm in my view.

  • Comment 247, posted at 21.12.16 08:02:32 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 247) : Agree with you on that, none of the SR franchises’ sponsors are overshadowing their brands, in fact, most people who often watch the competition don’t even notice the actual sponsor, they would talk about “The Bulls” not Vodacom Bulls in normal conversations, same goes with all the other brands.

  • Comment 248, posted at 21.12.16 08:10:03 by Quintin Reply

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  • @Quintin (Comment 248) : True and I think most do know who sponsors their and all the other SA franchise teams. I must admit it gets my goat when the studio guests / commentators talk about the “Cell C Sharks” or DHL Stormers / Western Province etc but I do understand that them things pay the bills. Another pet hate is that players get interviewed with their caps on, often putting them on just for the interview, again I understand why but it just comes across as crass and disrespectful. (my oudated view no doubt)

  • Comment 249, posted at 21.12.16 15:04:51 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 249) :

    This is my point on the subject.

    The sponsor money pays the bills but it also alienates the fans and make some of them go away. Once enough fans go away, the sponsor money will go away also.

    This is already happening in SA rugby.

  • Comment 250, posted at 22.12.16 00:49:49 by fyndraai Reply
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  • The key for the teams is to accept corporate money in a way that does not damage or diminish the team’s own brand in any way.
    Fans are attracted by the team brand. Corporations are attracted by the fans. To displace the team brand with the corporate brand is self defeating.

  • Comment 251, posted at 22.12.16 01:10:20 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 250) : Exactly how does the sponsor of your beloved team ‘alienate’ you as a fan? Like I said, people in general don’t talk about “The Cell C Sharks” around a braai or even at a match, they would just refer to them as The Sharks, not even mentioning the sponsor. To me, the sponsor has nothing to do with why I support The Sharks. I’m not going to become a Bulls supporter because I like Vodacom more than Cell C.

  • Comment 252, posted at 22.12.16 09:42:35 by Quintin Reply

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  • @Quintin (Comment 252) : ja for sure. When Absa had the naming rights and changed the stadium name to Absa park I personally still talked about Kings park and probably will do so till I die!

  • Comment 253, posted at 22.12.16 11:08:40 by JD Reply
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  • @Quintin (Comment 252) : @JD (Comment 253) : I suppose its how you go about your sponsorship, like for instance instructing anybody that gets interviewed to wear a cap displaying a gaudy logo where half of his face should be and casting a shadow over their eyes may turn some off because of its overkill value. As for the ABSA stadium, well by dropping the Kings Park name from it they ensured that I would never refer to it in writing or speech as anything other than Kings Park and also that I would never open an account with them…..not that I ever would anyway.

  • Comment 254, posted at 22.12.16 12:33:29 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 254) : Would you not agree that what you described would put u off the sponsor but not put u off supporting the team? I agree that some sponsors have more taste and tact than others but when the bills need to be paid those things become insignificant i believe.

  • Comment 255, posted at 22.12.16 13:21:23 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Quintin (Comment 252)

    For a team to fill their stadium they need to find ways to appeal to and connect with people outside of the small handful of never say die fans that call them “my beloved”.

  • Comment 256, posted at 22.12.16 13:42:17 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 255) : I would still support the team full on.I am also grateful for the sponsorship and understand why they want maximum exposure but it doesnt mean I will rush out and buy their product especially when I perceive their tactic to be akin to shoving something down ones throat.

    I wonder if Cell C (or any other sponsor) ever considered reversing their “cap on” for interviews policy, ie have the player wear the cap while walking up / preparing for the interview but then have the player make a conscious effort and action of taking the cap off for the interview and in that way showing old world respect for all to see. It would work for me.

  • Comment 257, posted at 22.12.16 14:05:54 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 257) : I fully agree with your first paragraph.
    Interesting point you put forward in your second paragraph, i doubt any of them would have thought of that. I also think the cap is the only thing they can think of that stands out during an interview- i mean we all notice it. The last thing id want to do after a rugby game is put a cap on but hey you gotta do what you gotta do i guess…

  • Comment 258, posted at 22.12.16 14:27:04 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 258) : “you gotta do what you have to do”…….. wonder if Ollie le Roux ever felt like that whilst eating a Spur cheese burger? ;-)

  • Comment 259, posted at 23.12.16 13:47:40 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 259) : Im sure he did when they said he could only have one…

  • Comment 260, posted at 28.12.16 08:15:08 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 260) : hahaha only one!!! That would have been more like a nightmare for him!!! ;-)

  • Comment 261, posted at 28.12.16 13:47:23 by JD Reply
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