robdylan

Bulls lose out again


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Bulls, Original Content, Springboks, Super Rugby on 17 Jan 2017 at 10:32
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Seemingly not content with one ace South African back rower in Marcell Coetzee, Les Kiss’s Ulster yesterday announced the capture of a second Bok loose forward, in the form of Bulls captain Arno Botha.

Botha will play out the 2017 Super Rugby season in Pretoria before relocating to Ravenhill, joining a slew of South African star players from Pretoria and other places now plying their trade in the European leagues.

Particularly disappointing for the Bulls is that Botha is a true home grown player – a guy that has come all the way up through their ranks and like CJ Stander before him, really should have been expected to forge a long senior career at Loftus and repay the investment made in him. According to Bulls GM Xander Janse van Rensburg, Botha is leaving because the Bulls are unable to make him a competitive offer. One has to wonder whether the money spent on expensive journeymen like Jacques Potgieter and Renaldo Bothma might have something to do with this?

Or could it perhaps be that some of the budget that allows the Bulls to contract 55(!) under 19 players this year should rather have been spent on retaining their captain?



74 Comments

  • 55…..one has to wonder how agents do not take this into account? But maybe they don’t have agents yet….but still, to contract three full teams of U19s and still have 10 reserves is simply neutering rugby potential in SA

  • Comment 1, posted at 17.01.17 10:40:26 by JustPlainSHARK Reply
    JustPlainSHARKCurrie Cup player
     
  • Hi All. Happy new year. May rugby be the winner in SA this year, regardless.

    Regarding Botha, the fact that he was so injury prone the last two to three years was the main reason Potgieter and Bothma were bought. Now there is an abundance of loosies at the Bulls, so seeing him leave is almost a relief. His full potential was never fulfilled at senior level after promising so much.

  • Comment 2, posted at 17.01.17 10:54:06 by Blue Centurion Reply
    Blue CenturionCurrie Cup player
     
  • How is it that Ulster are able to sign both Coetzee and Botha? Thought only one foreigner per position? Or perhaps there is a loophole and im reading into the ruling too strictly. Ulster have also just signed Franco Van Der Merwe so another Saffa. Is Wiehan Herbst still there?

  • Comment 3, posted at 17.01.17 11:06:29 by SheldonK Reply
    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • The irony here is that Stander and Botha are contemporaries and when Stander left the noise coming out of Tswane was that he was no big loss because the Bulls had Botha who would be far superior.
    Botha always looked a little too Spies suspect in build for my liking, and when he returned after his last long injury lay off he resembled Spies even more except this time it was Spies with a post Samson haircut

  • Comment 4, posted at 17.01.17 11:07:37 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 3) : Must be because Coetzee is from KZN, the last outpost of the British Empire,

  • Comment 5, posted at 17.01.17 11:14:34 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • Player losses like these are par for the course in SA these days. The real shock is in that last sentence: 55 contracted under 19 players in this year alone! That’s an astounding amount. On top of what they probably have at least some juniors on contract from previous years of scouting.

    Where does the money come from? Surely the plastic-blue-testicles-hanging-from-tow-hitch market is saturated at this point.

  • Comment 6, posted at 17.01.17 11:14:34 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 6) : :lol:

  • Comment 7, posted at 17.01.17 11:20:32 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 5) : Ah very good point Sir

  • Comment 8, posted at 17.01.17 11:38:05 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 3) : Are the rules the same in each of the different home countries,Ulster is in Northern Ireland,

  • Comment 9, posted at 17.01.17 11:43:33 by The hound Reply
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  • 55 for whaaaaaat

  • Comment 10, posted at 17.01.17 11:50:18 by Clayton(PJLD) Reply
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  • 55 for what

  • Comment 11, posted at 17.01.17 11:50:38 by Clayton(PJLD) Reply
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  • 55 for whaaaat

  • Comment 12, posted at 17.01.17 11:51:16 by Clayton(PJLD) Reply
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  • @Clayton(PJLD) (Comment 12) : For display cabinets creaking under the weight of all the silverware…..

  • Comment 13, posted at 17.01.17 11:58:44 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 9) : I assumed the rule was for all Irish teams so your guess as good as mine perhaps

  • Comment 14, posted at 17.01.17 12:02:40 by SheldonK Reply

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  • I’m all for trying to get an advantage over opponents and giving opportunities to people, but how in this world is contracting 55 u/19 players anything other than spoiling the broth – for all including the 55?

    This gives ample fuel to those wishing for central contracts.

  • Comment 15, posted at 17.01.17 12:19:07 by Blue Centurion Reply

    Blue CenturionCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Blue Centurion (Comment 15) : Would be interesting to see how that 55 compares to the other major unions…the Lions, WP, Sharks and Cheetahs

  • Comment 16, posted at 17.01.17 12:38:31 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 14) : Stupid question do North andSouth Ireland play rugby as one nation, or do they play individually as two teams as in soccer

  • Comment 17, posted at 17.01.17 12:40:25 by The hound Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 14) : Ireland is unified for the purposes of rugby

  • Comment 18, posted at 17.01.17 12:51:00 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 18) : Thanks just found that myself, wonder why they play soccer as two nations.

  • Comment 19, posted at 17.01.17 12:52:41 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 19) : Are you really trying to make sense of what the Irish do? :mrgreen: haha

  • Comment 20, posted at 17.01.17 13:02:16 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @robdylan (Comment 18) : Has that always been the case?

  • Comment 21, posted at 17.01.17 13:03:10 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 20) : i lived in Dublin in the early 80′s and the North were never part of the team.

  • Comment 22, posted at 17.01.17 13:23:58 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 22) : U were probably hammered on guinness to see that far north ;)

  • Comment 23, posted at 17.01.17 13:41:03 by SheldonK Reply

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  • The Bulls contracting 55 odd U19 players really needs to be rectified by SARU. By contracting in this manner they are:

    A) Making, a number of talented youngsters who should all be playing regularly to rise to the necessary level to make SR squads, vie for the same positions and therefore never realise their potential. A number of examples is Francois Venter and William Small-Smith. Both were talked about as the best up and coming centres but with the fight to give so many talented centres game time they have been underused, under valued and eventually discarded to other provinces.

    B) Due to large quantity of U/19 contracts offered the Bulls are effectively ensuring the inability to keep their seniors a’la Arno Botha. They have also disillusioned seniors by asking them to take pay cuts as the union has no money because they have contracted so many school boys.

    There way of working is ridiculous. They probably had so much money after winning their SR titles they could splash the cash at every emerging talent this country and were thinking this would ensure they always had a superstar team (much like the ones that won those titles) and therefore bring more titles. Only problem is that hasn’t worked out and I’m sure the union can not continue to contract in this manner. Which means lowering the quantity of u/19′s contacted or cut the fat at the top, so bye-bye seniors.

    SARU should really contract the 100 players with the most potential and distribute them to the clubs who need them. So Sharks get 15 players, we’re short Tight heads so we get a few. We have enough loosies no point us getting them. Lions get 15 players – they get what they need. The top 100 are split between the 6 SR teams and each gets what they need position wise. This way we get the best 100 guys into unions where they actually get game time and we share the wealth. When the player is past his u/21 season he no longer gets a SARU contract and if he’s been good enough he gets a contract with a union, otherwise he joins the real world where people go to work.

  • Comment 24, posted at 17.01.17 13:53:58 by Hulk Reply

    HulkSuper Rugby player
     
  • Perhaps the Bulls are aiming to become a supplier of young talent to rich overseas clubs, developing them and selling them at a profit. I know of a lot of soccer clubs who almost specialize in that. 55, geez…easy to spot their future business plan.

  • Comment 25, posted at 17.01.17 13:56:34 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Hulk (Comment 24) : Definitely not a bad suggestion

  • Comment 26, posted at 17.01.17 13:58:04 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 23) : you are right but it wasn’t Guiness,and the term was wasted

  • Comment 27, posted at 17.01.17 13:59:53 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 27) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 28, posted at 17.01.17 14:44:32 by SheldonK Reply

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  • Does anybody know how many U19s are contracted by the other unions? Including the small unions, do they contract any?

    What is the typical salary of these junior players? Is it possible that the Bulls could be making a profit from having very good junior teams? Income from Varsity Cup games for instance. Or getting a cut when the player moves on – I’ve never heard about such contract clauses. If they exist, it must be super secret.

    This is not a good situation, but one also need to look at the other unions. If the Bulls is the only union in SA willing to spend money on developing junior players, then neither they, nor the players who flock there can be blamed for the mess.

  • Comment 29, posted at 17.01.17 14:52:02 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 29) : what should we blame it on then,Putin or I know apartheid.

  • Comment 30, posted at 17.01.17 15:30:28 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 30) : I beg you, please don’t go there. Thanks!

  • Comment 31, posted at 17.01.17 16:15:25 by robdylan Reply
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  • Putin, blame everything on Putin these days. As of next week you can blame it on Agent Orange.

  • Comment 32, posted at 17.01.17 16:27:30 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 30) :

    The traditional union system that was great for amateur rugby and not so great for the professional sport.

    The ideal world for me would be for the unions to have no junior players on contract.

    They should all enter the Varsity cup system after school and the VC teams should be completely separate from the unions. VC players must be bonefide students and may play a maximum of say 4 years in VC. They should be semi-pro. Stipends for being student athletes and burseries for education would be a good deal, because the majority will not be able to make a decent living off rugby. After that the better ones may may enter the unions via a draft or go overseas. Talented players who leaves the VC system early for senior contracts are out and cannot go back.

  • Comment 33, posted at 17.01.17 17:24:21 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 21) : Yes Rugby has always represented the island of Ireland, North and South. In the early 80′s Ulster player such as Trevor Ringland, Keith Crossan, Dave Irwin and Willie Duggan would have been regulars in the Ireland side. Ulster itself straddles the border, being made up of six counties in Northern Ireland and three in the South.

    Wiehahn Herbst is a project player – ie he’s qualifying to play for Ireland under residency rules. Franco van der Merwe is in his final year of contract so effectively Arno Botha will be replacing him. We also lose Ruan Pienaar this season as well.

    Anyway, what I really want to know is, is Arno Botha any good?

  • Comment 34, posted at 17.01.17 17:43:49 by The FRU Reply

    The FRUUnder 21 player
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 6) : Jeepers! Just incredible. I’m assuming they have the same sort of number of u21′s…so that makes it in the region of 110 contracted juniors. I really don’t think this is good for the overall system! Maybe we should actually introduce a drafting system at that level?

  • Comment 35, posted at 17.01.17 18:31:44 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 17) : @robdylan (Comment 18) : It’s the reason there are sometimes two Irish anthems sung at rugby games, isn’t it? And why quite a few players sing the one anthem but not the other…very few of them sing both. Try and find you tube clips of it and you’ll see what I mean…

  • Comment 36, posted at 17.01.17 18:36:25 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Talking of junior signings, anybody know whether the Sharks have signed anybody exciting this year?

  • Comment 37, posted at 17.01.17 18:36:58 by JR Reply

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  • @fyndraai (Comment 33) : I can sort of understand where you are going…but if a junior system depends completely on the Varsities, what do you do with young rugby players who do not qualify for University on the basis of poor academics…and there are quite a few of those…
    At the end of the day I don’t really care what the solution looks like…I just think it’s clear that a better solution is necessary. Make that part of all these indaba discussions and make a conscious effort to come up with a better system…

  • Comment 38, posted at 17.01.17 18:45:31 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @The FRU (Comment 34) : yes, he’s good. Had a ‘mare with injuries, but a quality player

  • Comment 39, posted at 17.01.17 19:43:44 by robdylan Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 3) : loose forward is 3 positions 6, 7 & 8 so they could theoretically sign 3 loose forwards without contravening the rule but then no other team will be allowed to sing one. Franco was probably signed as a lock.

  • Comment 40, posted at 17.01.17 20:31:13 by JD Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 33) : Frans Steyn and JPP won a world cup at 21, 20 year-olds Liam Gill ,Handre Pollardand Johan Gossen, and 21 year-olds Michael Hooper, Sam Cane, Brodie Retallick, Marcell Coetzee and Beauden Barrett,all played test rugby
    Hooper captained the Wallabies at 21.
    James O’Connor became the youngest ever Super Rugby debutant at age 17, and the second youngest Wallaby in Australian rugby history at age 18
    Age is a number.

  • Comment 41, posted at 17.01.17 21:28:48 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 41) : yes for some but think there is also a lot of players that get exposed at that age and just can’t handle the mental and physical pressure. As for Pollard and Goosen with all their injury problems they might harm your case more than prove your point.

  • Comment 42, posted at 17.01.17 22:51:02 by JD Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 41) :

    That’s why I said, if you exit the junior system at 18 you cannot go back. When you become a senior player at 18 you get a senior contract. We need to avoid travesties such as when Mapoe was playing SR for the Cheetahs on a pathetic junior salary.

  • Comment 43, posted at 18.01.17 01:43:30 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 38) :
    Atheletic ability is a talent just like the ability to do maths or memorize Greek words. The mission of higher learning institutes is to further develop talent. They could always find something useful to teach young atheletes to complement their rugby playing.

    If an illiterate 18 year old boy plays VC for 4 years and learns to read and write at the same time, the university has done him and society a great service already.

  • Comment 44, posted at 18.01.17 01:55:07 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 44) : I really like a lot of what you’re proposing but at the moment don’t trust the Varsity Cup organisers to adminstrate this in any way that could be described as fair. There’s a great risk of this new system being used as another old boy’s club. That will need to be addressed.

  • Comment 45, posted at 18.01.17 08:22:15 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 42) : Jonah Lomu All Black at 19.

  • Comment 46, posted at 18.01.17 09:04:48 by The hound Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 33) : I do like your suggestion…with a tweak to include non varsity players it would be good. I assume the non varsity guys would enter the club scenes then

  • Comment 47, posted at 18.01.17 09:15:41 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @fyndraai (Comment 44) : I absolutely agree with your principles in this post. Brilliant. But do our varsities actually work like that? Genuine question which I don’t know the answer to…but I don’t think in our educational system it works like that…your secondary education performance determines entry into the tertiary system, doesn’t it…
    But I would certainly back the fundamental principles of your idea…

  • Comment 48, posted at 18.01.17 10:06:15 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 46) : yes you will always get a player that shines at 19 but that does not mean every 19 year old is mentally and physically ready for senior rugby.

  • Comment 49, posted at 18.01.17 17:35:29 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 49) : Mozart at 2. What’s the point? So people achieve greatness fast and have lots of natural talent that is easily tapped. Other people require years of coaching and practice to achieve mastery. The later is in the majority. We all know this.

  • Comment 50, posted at 18.01.17 20:06:08 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @pastorshark (Comment 48) : My only problem with Fyndraai’s post is the last sentence. Is it not the purpose of primary education (12 years) to teach mathematics, and reading and writing? If someone comes out of matric not knowing how to add/subtract/multiply/divide and read/write, then the primary education has failed miserably. I do agree though that higher learning institutes should be more focused in their teaching, so clearly could find something very useful for a rugby player to learn, and they should. It is a problem in the US as well, where uni players are coddled, given scholarships, passing marks for no work, etc. The players are a money maker to the university, and they don’t care one bit about their future well being. They do an incredible disservice to those players. Bottom line is the higher learning institutions should not be teaching the basics, but rather focused and advanced education/training. As always, my free opinion, and worth every penny. ;-)

  • Comment 51, posted at 19.01.17 00:07:55 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 51) : A really practical budgeting or financial management course would serve a lot of the professional athletes really well. Saw a documentary quite a while back about the staggering amount of American pro athletes who eventually end up bankrupt. So much money simply flushed away on ‘living the life’.

  • Comment 52, posted at 19.01.17 08:14:02 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 51) : Well put. I love the principal of helping guys advance themselves and wherever rugby helps with that, great. But you’re right, of course…

  • Comment 53, posted at 19.01.17 08:24:46 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 50) : thing is it does not alway look as if that’s a well known fact!?

  • Comment 54, posted at 19.01.17 08:55:04 by JD Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 51) : @vanmartin (Comment 52) : @pastorshark (Comment 53) : think the best example of rugby helping a player must be Heimar who played rugby whist studying and now that he’s done he “retired” to practice what he studied!

  • Comment 55, posted at 19.01.17 08:58:57 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 55) : If you going down that route then you need to start with Jannie du Plessis,all the years he’s played with probably one of the heaviest playing schedules, and he still had time to qualify and practice as a surgeon.

  • Comment 56, posted at 19.01.17 10:39:12 by The hound Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 48) :

    No. Naturally universities prefer to remain exclusive places for the academic elites.

    The important thing for rugby is to have a system for juniors only that is separate from the unions and not fully pro. Universities are just the best places for this. There could be good money in it for them.

  • Comment 57, posted at 19.01.17 12:47:54 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 51) :

    I don’t have many problems with the college atheletic system. A football player’s major is football. He gets many opportunities to gain other life skills and I’m certain most of the ones not NFL bound do better in life as a result. Their’s nothing wrong with Colleges making money from sport either, they make money from academic work also.

  • Comment 58, posted at 19.01.17 12:58:40 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @fyndraai (Comment 58) : I don’t have a problem with universities making money from sport, but I do believe they have an obligation to at least upskill the players to a point the vast majority who do not make it as a pro athlete can support themselves. I am afraid the statistics do not bare out your statement that these college athletes do better in life, in fact high school players who do not play in university end up being better off financially than those handed a university degree for little or no academic achievement.

  • Comment 59, posted at 19.01.17 15:25:17 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 59) :

    I dont think that is a valid comparison. Highschool players who go to College as non-atheletes are obviously academically strong and atheletically weak. One would expect them to do better later on, than the student atheletes were atheletically strong and on average, academically weaker.

    A more valid comparrison would be between NBA and MLB players who went pro straigt out of high school against those who went through College first. The comparison would have to be of their life success after retirement and would have to correct for the differences in pro salaries.

  • Comment 60, posted at 20.01.17 01:49:54 by fyndraai Reply
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  • You may also compare College atheletes who, if not for sport, would not have been accepted in College, against their peers who never went to College.

  • Comment 61, posted at 20.01.17 01:52:35 by fyndraai Reply
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  • If all fit the Bulls can boast a pretty good backline of : 9. Van Zyl 10. Pollard 11. Ulengo 12. Serfontein 13. Kriel 14. Ismael 15 Gelant

  • Comment 62, posted at 20.01.17 08:47:32 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 62) : Yeh that looks a bit more seasoned than our options aside from Pat and AE of course. I just really hope Cobus has a good year again as I feel we will need to up our tempo especially in redistributing the ball this year. I can only see the game becoming faster and faster over the coming years, we need to be prepared for that. I’m not very comfortable with Ungerer being our backup SH though and we don’t have a lot of experienced players there aside from Claasens, who lost any sort of form last year after a decent run.

  • Comment 63, posted at 20.01.17 09:12:20 by Quintin Reply

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  • @Quintin (Comment 63) : Yeh that is a decent backline the Bulls can boast, if was me id play Odendaal instead of Ismael but thats unlikely to happen.
    In terms of the Sharks there are a lot of possible options. Id pick a bit against the accepted norm a bit and go with:
    9. Reinach 10. Lambie 11. Mvovo 12. Esterhuizen 13. Ward 14. Poitrenaud 15. Bosch. Blend of youth, experience, brute force and speed with good kicking options

  • Comment 64, posted at 20.01.17 09:27:05 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @SheldonK (Comment 64) : That looks like what I would do as well so what is the accepted norm? Am for Ward and Pointrenaud on the bench? I really want to see Deysel play in our pre-season, we need to know if we have good cover or options at 12, AE can’t play the whole season again.

  • Comment 65, posted at 20.01.17 09:45:09 by Quintin Reply

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  • @Quintin (Comment 65) : The Sharks arent exactly known for thinking out the box, they like tried and tested. so 9. Reinach 10. Lambie 11. Mvovo 12. Esterhuizen 13. Am 14. Ndungane/Sithole 15. Poitrenaud/Bosch is probably what we will see.

  • Comment 66, posted at 20.01.17 10:03:23 by SheldonK Reply

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  • Is Odders still in our squad? Wel I think he’ll do fine as a stop gap if we are in deep trouble with injuries/suspensions but to start with him after he was found lacking in the speed department last year(and at his age) is pushing it a bit. We have to start giving younger guys a chance sometime but I guess you are right, we are a little conservative with selections. I think Rob will change that for us with some bold selections though, he doesn’t look like a guy who’s scared of trying new things. Big season for Sithole surely? We have invested a lot in him, hope we see a return this year.

  • Comment 67, posted at 20.01.17 10:23:29 by Quintin Reply

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  • @Quintin (Comment 67) : On Sithole, I think if he can focus on his skill set, handling/passing etc. he can be very good because he has the speed and power, but then again we have been saying that for some time now. I really like the guy, but he has to put in a good season for us or else I feel it’s time to move on and invest our time in someone else.

    Anyone know yet if any of the pre-season games will be broadcasted?

  • Comment 68, posted at 20.01.17 10:29:40 by Quintin Reply

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  • @Quintin (Comment 67) : Yeh Odders still in the squad and to be honest im not holding my breath for Sithole. Think both him and Odders need to step aside and let guys like Nkosi and Mukendi have their chance as both are quicker. @Quintin (Comment 68) : Sithole had a shocker 2016 but for some reason a lot of people have a lot of patience for him based on a couple of half decent performances at centre years ago

  • Comment 69, posted at 20.01.17 10:34:09 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Quintin (Comment 68) : I know they still looking to confirm a venue for the Sharks/Cheetahs preseason game. Rumours are its heading to Kwamashu

  • Comment 70, posted at 20.01.17 10:36:22 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Quintin (Comment 63) : @SheldonK (Comment 64) : Any idea where and how the Namibian scrummy, Stevens, is fitting in at the Sharks. One of his ex team mates thinks he could step up if exposed to the big time, apparently very nippy and a hell of a work ethic.

  • Comment 71, posted at 20.01.17 10:47:37 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the SubtleAssistant coach
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 69) : I haven’t seen much of those two, how are they physically though? Do they only have speed or do they have some power as well? The Barbarians game were Sergeal Peterson was on his back most of the match is clear evidence that you need strong defenders on the wings too, not just speedy ones especially against the monsters the NZ teams have.

    @SheldonK (Comment 70) : I doubt SS will be sending a camera crew to that match if it’s there but I really hope they do.

    @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 71) : I have never heard of, or seen Stevens before we signed him. Where did he play before he joined up with us?

  • Comment 72, posted at 20.01.17 10:57:24 by Quintin Reply

    QuintinSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 71) : To be honest i havnt heard much of anything about him since the news of his signing last year. Im not sure he is even with the squad as scrummies are Reinach, Claasens, Gouws and Ungerer

  • Comment 73, posted at 20.01.17 11:21:42 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     
  • @Quintin (Comment 72) : Nkosi definitely isnt a small guy so yes speed and power. Mukendi still a youngster but in the photos ive seen he has bulked up a lot in the off season. As i said ive grown very tired of waiting for Sithole to show something, anything

  • Comment 74, posted at 20.01.17 11:25:03 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonKAssistant coach
     

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