robdylan

Ridiculous inconsistencies leave Sharks fans fuming


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Lions, Original Content, Sharks, Super Rugby on 3 Apr 2017 at 09:32
Tagged with : , , , , ,

The dust has settled somewhat after Saturday’s pulsating Super Rugby derby at Ellis Park and while we, as Sharks fans, remain incredibly proud of the performance put in by our team, I’m not quite ready to put this one to bed, given some of the officiating travesties that had a significant impact on the outcome of the game.

Let’s get the obvious one out of the way first: yes, Etienne Oosthuizen DID make contact with the neck of a Lions player on two separate occasions and really does need to take a look at his technique and discipline when it comes to this aspect. Rob du Preez has described Oosthuizen’s yellow-card as both “marginal” and also “match-changing” and I think he’s more right on the second point than the first. The earlier transgression from Oosthuizen was, to my mind, marginal. There was no intent and if anything, I’d he just did what any other player would do when going in hard to clean a player off the ball. The laws have changed this year, though and the onus is now on each player to at all times be conscious of where their arms are going – in other words, intent doesn’t matter, it’s effect that counts. In this case, Oosthuizen did make contact with the neck so the call was correct.

The second transgression was just stupid and I have no issue whatsoever with a penalty there. Surely, after you’ve already been warned (and cost your team points) you change your behaviour? Clearly not so in this player’s case and thus, on balance, justice (harsh as it was) was duly served.

But justice is supposed to be blind, isn’t it? How can we have any problem with a just and fair outcome as long as the same laws and standards are applied equally to both teams? Well, let’s just have a look at the below graphic, with thanks to reader Warren Harvey for some of the stills:

Lions

Looking at these incidents – none of which were picked up by over-eager TMO Johan Greeff, I’d say the first Lions’ try should have been disallowed and at least two penalties should have gone the Sharks’ way. In a game that was lost by 5 points, how significant could those not have been? Food for thought for the officials, if they’re man enough to take a plateful.



87 Comments

  • And the tip tackle on Lwazi in the first half? (Same move where Ettas got his first ‘penalty’)

  • Comment 1, posted at 03.04.17 09:34:32 by Die Kriek Reply
    Super Rugby player
     
  • I was a bit shell shocked when our players were tackled “high” and nothing happened. I don’t normally give refs kak coz its such a hard job but tjis time I felt robbed.

  • Comment 2, posted at 03.04.17 09:35:59 by Sharkfinn Reply
    Under 21 player
     
  • @Die Kriek (Comment 1) : I must go look for that.

  • Comment 3, posted at 03.04.17 09:48:23 by robdylan Reply
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  • And the inconsistencies with the ‘shoulder’ tackles? :sad: :???:

  • Comment 4, posted at 03.04.17 09:48:52 by Julesgr8ter Reply
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  • I’ve actually lost sleep because of this game. I’m just so bleddie angry! I need justice for this! This has affected me worse than the whole Zuma destroying our nation thing. :x :x :x

  • Comment 5, posted at 03.04.17 09:51:55 by jakkalas Reply

    jakkalasCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Sharkfinn (Comment 2) : Yes.. We know they(refs) are hard on the neck area. But seriously. How can only one team touch someone’s shoulder and get penalized during 80 minutes. Justice when Lions loose against NZ team is semi as the refs wont help them then. From the evidence produced in this article.. @Rob.. Hope this is send to ref panel?

  • Comment 6, posted at 03.04.17 09:54:11 by ebenp Reply

    Under 21 player
     
  • Why cant we just call this what it is? This Greeff is a blatant cheat. This is not the first time. He takes food off the Sharks table. It is fraud. He should be charged criminally nevermind fired.

  • Comment 7, posted at 03.04.17 10:06:23 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • I have a couple of thoughts about this. Firstly the Sharks have a massive game against the Jaguares coming up this weekend and the players can’t be allowed to be distracted by this. If they start feeling sorry for themselves. Secondly, we have seen this type of thing so many times. My outrage has turned into ‘meh’. When will something be done about this inconsistency? Maybe something for the Sharks management to take up with SANZAAAAAAR?

  • Comment 8, posted at 03.04.17 10:27:56 by war1 Reply
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    war1Super Rugby player
     
  • @war1 (Comment 8) : The Sharks cannot afford to loose that game at home – if they want to qualify for the playoffs. I agree – we are all pissed off, but it is not going to change the result.

  • Comment 9, posted at 03.04.17 10:32:41 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • First off a disclaimer: this post is not a attempt to invalidate any other supporter’s opinon on the game but I do have a different take on this. Might be useful or it may not be.

    In spite of the refereeing inconsistencies we did have our opportunities to win the game so I’m honestly struggling to get very worked up by the whole thing. To clarify my perspective: put yourself in the coaches’ shoes, how do you handle a situation like this? Do you:
    1. Tell your team they were cheated out of a win and they have cause to be really upset
    2. Use it as a learning opportuinity and point out moments where they could have won the game in spite of the ref

    With a guy like Rob du Preez at the helm I’m guessing he’ll opt for option 2 in spite of any personal disappointment. I’m speculating but there’s probably a very good chance the team (or the coach at least) has put this behind them and focused on what is within their control?

    Even if the ref got it spot on, do we know for sure that we would have taken it or would the Lions have dug even deeper to win it? These “what-ifs” are another reason I’m reluctant to get too upset. We just can’y say for sure what would have happened in a game as tight as this one.

    Final thought: Yes, I do fully agree that referees need to be held more accountable in terms of the consistency of their decision-making. I also like the idea of more neutral refereeing in Super Rugby BUT I’d like to see the Sharks find a way to win in spite of dodgy decisions.

  • Comment 10, posted at 03.04.17 10:35:27 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 9) : Agreed, they must channel that rage in a positive way and make the Argies pay for it.

  • Comment 11, posted at 03.04.17 10:35:47 by KingRiaan Reply

    KingRiaanTeam captain
     
  • @war1 (Comment 8) : heard from one of the coaches that the team are focusing on the positives that came out of a very good performance.

    I do think that Rob needs to take the Oosthuizen bull by the proverbial horns, though.

  • Comment 12, posted at 03.04.17 10:37:19 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 12) : Just as long as he doesn’t castrate Ettas game. Ettiene to me is THE unsung hero in the team and more valuable than anyone gives him credit for. Maybe just a couple of skills sessions in cleaning and tackling focusing on his body placement to help iron out the niggles.

  • Comment 13, posted at 03.04.17 10:42:08 by KingRiaan Reply

    KingRiaanTeam captain
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 10) : in line with your comment, and Warren’s, I’ve changed the headline a little.

    It’s the fans that are upset. I did not mean to imply that the team is fixating on this.

  • Comment 14, posted at 03.04.17 10:43:16 by robdylan Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 10) : Firstly we predicted this would happen ,secondly do you honestly think the players are so naive that they don’t know what happened.
    Thirdly what exactly have we to gain by rolling overl and accepting this again, whats the learning opportunity , learning to be losers
    Greef is at best highly incompetent and at worst a blatant cheat,either way he is a disgrace and if we ever allow him to officiate in another of our games we deserve him

  • Comment 15, posted at 03.04.17 10:46:19 by The hound Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 10) : Agreed, I think this will be a big test for coach Rob. The Jaguares are a formidable enough team without added distractions. Leadership among the players will also be important. There is where Pat even while injured can add some value.

  • Comment 16, posted at 03.04.17 10:49:00 by war1 Reply
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    war1Super Rugby player
     
  • @The hound (Comment 15) : agreed

  • Comment 17, posted at 03.04.17 10:50:09 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 12) : That sounds good. Let’s Ettas responds well.

  • Comment 18, posted at 03.04.17 10:50:44 by war1 Reply
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    war1Super Rugby player
     
  • @The hound (Comment 15) : What can you do though? Realistically? I can think of laying a formal complaint but nothing more.

  • Comment 19, posted at 03.04.17 10:53:40 by war1 Reply
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    war1Super Rugby player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 12) : On the evidence above do you think that Ackermann should take Kriel by the proverbial horns.
    The way people are reacting to Oostuizens challenge on Marx you’d think he had viciously head hunted Kolbe.
    Marx is an abrasive in your face player who had been very much on the aggressive offensive .EO merely checked him.

  • Comment 20, posted at 03.04.17 10:53:51 by The hound Reply
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  • @war1 (Comment 19) : Bryce Lawrence never reffed another Bok game .

  • Comment 21, posted at 03.04.17 10:58:43 by The hound Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 10) : You make good points but I disagree on some. You say the Lions might have dug deeper to find a win. I put it to you that if a man is willing to go through 5 minutes of footage until he finds something, then we were never going to win this. Imagine this con artist hadnt found anything and we were 20-3 up, do you believe he wouldve just sat back? Remember we said this would happen before it happened. This is the same guy who refused to call this forward
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb3wAMeidzo
    I agree with Hound on this. If we let this slide, it is not because of good sportsmanship.We must insist on his head.

  • Comment 22, posted at 03.04.17 11:05:08 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 15) :
    1. Yes, a lot of folks on here predicted that. I never argued that wasn’t the case?
    2. No, of course the players realise what’s happening. We have a pretty sharp bunch this here. No sure what your point is here as I didn’t claim that that they “don’t know what happened”.
    3. I pointed out what the learning opportunity is in this case: focus on what you can control on the field, sharpen it up to give you the best chance to win in spite of the ref.

    Question for you and I’m being completely sincere here. Genuinly interested in this discusion because I also want consistency as I mentioned previously. Who is the “we” that should not allow him to officiate again? How exactly does that group or individual accomplish this within the World Rugby and SANZAAR frameworks?

  • Comment 23, posted at 03.04.17 11:12:25 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Whichever way we look at it, I’m still very proud of the boys. We no longer sit back and take a defeat. We are playing until the final whistle and we can only get better and better.

  • Comment 24, posted at 03.04.17 11:19:14 by StevieS Reply
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    StevieSSuper Rugby player
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 23) : I keep on asking the same question, how are officials allocated to the games,, who does it,do we have a representative on that committee,who is he.
    Lets start there, when we know who he is, get him to know in no uncertain terms that we are not going to accept this lopsided and blatant victimization.
    Starting with Greef .

  • Comment 25, posted at 03.04.17 11:20:58 by The hound Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 23) : Also being sincere, really want to know. If this is a pro game with money involved and losses can be shown, and bias be proved. Can there be no legal liability? If Im a pro rugby player or administrator and you take food off my table can I not protect myself in any way?

  • Comment 26, posted at 03.04.17 11:21:58 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 22) : It’s a fair counter-point given Greef’s past incident involving the Sharks. I’m still less convinced than others that he’s sole mission is to try his best to ensure the Sharks don’t win a game but I can certainly empathise with their point of view on the matter all the same. The original point I tried to make is that I avoid “what-ifs” because I can’t convince myself that a particular scenario would have definitely played out differently. As a result I try not to get too upset about things that I consider unknown. Again though, this is my personal perspective on these things.

    Regarding your second statement, this is getting to the really interesting stuff. A lot of supporters on here are insisting on his head but what happens then? Again I am being completely sincere here, how do you guys hope to see this playing out?

  • Comment 27, posted at 03.04.17 11:22:27 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @StevieS (Comment 24) : Yes, and Bosch. Oh my dear goodness, Bosch!

  • Comment 28, posted at 03.04.17 11:22:51 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • I still have a question about the second incident. Ettas clearly joined the “maul” from the side, and if that was a legal maul that would clearly have been a cause for a yellow on its own. I heard one of the commentators say that he was entitled to join the “maul” from the side. The ref and TMO seemed to have more of an issue with his binding than the side entry.

    So my question is if the commentator is correct and he could join from the side, then that was not a legal maul and should have been blown as obstruction in the first place? I recall Whitely bursting through the Sharks line at the lineout and then the maul started – I don’t recall any Sharks player bound to Whitely before he transfered the ball to the back

  • Comment 29, posted at 03.04.17 11:24:20 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 27) : Well we as fans cant do much, but I believe the Sharks should make a strong statement, as in set a precedent type of statement. As in fire that swindler after he makes a public apology and admits he is a cheat or we dont play. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

  • Comment 30, posted at 03.04.17 11:30:12 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 25) : I don’t think anyone on here has those answers for you I’m afraid. Have you tried to get in contact with the union to get clarity on this?

  • Comment 31, posted at 03.04.17 11:32:38 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Maybe I misheard, but I am sure I heard the Ref telling Terra when he complained later in the game about a high tackle. “It wasn’t malicious”. I thought all above shoulder tackles were a penalty offence???

  • Comment 32, posted at 03.04.17 11:33:53 by Dynamite Reply

    DynamiteVodacom Cup player
     
  • @Die Kriek (Comment 1) : did you see it live? I see the incident but the camera moves away after the tackler lifts Mvovo. I cannot see how he went to ground.

  • Comment 33, posted at 03.04.17 11:33:56 by robdylan Reply
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  • After all the interventions the TMO had to make I expect a fair few Sharks players were sighted after the game!!! Any news on when the hearings will be?

  • Comment 34, posted at 03.04.17 11:34:37 by JD Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 30) : I do actually agree with you here. I’m also of the opinion that we as fans don’t have much say in this. The Sharks as a union are probably best equipped to tackles issues like these but it doesn’t seem like any of the SANZAAR unions are particularly interested in rocking this boat. I think some of the coaches may be but they probably won’t enjoy the backing of their unions if they do speak up on these matters.

  • Comment 35, posted at 03.04.17 11:36:14 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 29) : I think in this incident and my recollection of it was Whitely who was at the front of the maul still had the ball, so no obstruction. No other Shark players were touching the “maul” and therefore Etta’s was a tackling player therefore no offside line and therefore technically not a maul so could go in at whatever angle he wanted.

  • Comment 36, posted at 03.04.17 11:45:24 by Hulk Reply

    HulkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 31) : Why is the system of allocating officials so secret that nobody knows if we even have a representative.I would have thought that we would have a very capable negotiator at the table.
    This is dark web stuff, probably find someone from Bulls or Stormers representing our interests for us,.

  • Comment 37, posted at 03.04.17 11:46:26 by The hound Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 14) : Sorry, missed this but didn’t interpret the original headline that way. More a case of what I suspect the team’s take is on this is, is what I’m using to inform my own. Hope that makes sense.

  • Comment 38, posted at 03.04.17 11:48:08 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 33) : I was not at the game, but that stood out for me watching on the day. I’ll rewatch the game after work, I may be remembering it wrong

  • Comment 39, posted at 03.04.17 11:48:23 by Die Kriek Reply

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  • @The hound (Comment 37) : Good question that. Agree, a clear lack of transparency. I think the results of refereeing reviews should also be made public for the sake of the game.

  • Comment 40, posted at 03.04.17 11:50:19 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 29) : The ‘maul’ was not a maul because the Sharks did not take the hit. No maul, no offside line, Ettas could legally join from the side

  • Comment 41, posted at 03.04.17 11:50:40 by Die Kriek Reply

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  • @Hulk (Comment 36) : So it was actually a pod (albeit a very large one) because the ball was in front with Whitely? I had the impression Ettas went for the ball carrier in the middle of this pod, but I will have to check the recording in more detail

  • Comment 42, posted at 03.04.17 11:54:49 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • As it’s been said so many times we all saw this coming and therefore it’s hard to get too riled up about it. I agree that there should be something in place where one can put grievances against poor officiating but referees are still a protected species and I don’t see this coming right for a while. The officiating bodies of tournaments keep adding more protocols for refs to follow to try make it better but the more they try the murkier things seem to get. I don’t imagine we’ll hear RDP complain either as coaches or anyone comenting about the officials is still a taboo. I’m hugely disappointment by the loss and the what could have beens but what I can do is over. I can not do anything for my team to change what happened on Saturday, that is with our union now. All I can do is look forward and support our boys through this week and give them all the support I can muster on Saturday. It’s a crappy feeling, knowing we could have won if it weren’t for non-playing personal, but this is where it needs to end for us as fans and for the team. We need to focus on the coming game as the Jaguares are just as tough a team as the Lions and we have to play just as well to pull off a win on Saturday. So I’m not going to complain and criticize the officials any further, what’s done is done and I’ll focus on what the team can control and that’s their mental and physical preparation for another hard week of Super Rugby.

  • Comment 43, posted at 03.04.17 11:57:34 by Hulk Reply

    HulkSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 42) : I’d say that’s how it played out.

  • Comment 44, posted at 03.04.17 11:58:59 by Hulk Reply

    HulkSuper Rugby player
     
  • So how does the thread feel about introducing refereeing “challenges” into rugby? Something along the lines of one per half to be used at the coaching staff’s discretion. Not sure who get to rule on these challenges though? The TMO may not be a great choice in this case :mrgreen:

  • Comment 45, posted at 03.04.17 12:04:59 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 37) :
    It’s not a secret. You just have to remove your blinkers and look around a bit.

    There are no team representives on the panels.

  • Comment 46, posted at 03.04.17 12:23:18 by fyndraai Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 45) : the challenge won’t be applicable here. None of us can technically disagree with our penasties, just that there was a different set of rules applied to the teams when it came to tackles. Like you said,what are the chances the tmo would have given the penalties if we complained? We still could have won, but the players are not dumb, they knew they were given a raw deal. As much as we would like them to just suck it up and play,they were giving their best, but psychologically it would have frustrated them a lot

  • Comment 47, posted at 03.04.17 12:37:33 by HeinF Reply

    HeinFTeam captain
     
  • OK guys here’s my honest view on this:
    The letter of the law is in black and white so some refs can see only black and white! As that was what the Sharks were wearing it was all he could see hence him only reporting on the black and white team and not on the red team (that he could not see)!!! :twisted:
    Seriously I know it sucked and we are all pissed off but by carrying on nothing will change as the result will stand! Better to let the players know we think they had an awesome game and we support them 110% and focus on what will be a huge game against the Jaguares!!!! Time to get positive this week as negativity will only drag us down! Build on the awesome performance and nail the Jaguares!!!
    Black & White boet nothing else matters!!!!

  • Comment 48, posted at 03.04.17 12:37:34 by JD Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 48) : I agree with most. I would just like there to be consequences for the tmo. This was not the first time this happened with Greeff. And I know us moaning will not change anything, but if any of us did our jobs like this,there would have been consequences. Why can’t we just get assurance that he will never be involved in a sharks match again…but ja,this was expected and received, still a great game of rugby though

  • Comment 49, posted at 03.04.17 12:41:18 by HeinF Reply

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  • It was quite interesting discussion on Supersport as to who had the more senior voice the Ref or the TMO.
    In Saturdays game van Hereden was very much the junior to Greef who is his boss at the Blue Bulls,and like a true grey shoed civil servant he wouldn’t ever rock the boat by disagreeing with Meneer.
    Week before Peyper definitely considered himself the senior partner and over ruled the TMO,
    My question is who has the final say ,the ref or the TMO

  • Comment 50, posted at 03.04.17 12:48:01 by The hound Reply
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  • @HeinF (Comment 47) : And if the ‘challenges’ extended to pointing out a transgression the ref may have possibly missed?

  • Comment 51, posted at 03.04.17 13:05:33 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 45) : The White card would be great only problem is that it gets referred to the TMO and if it is greef what do we do??

  • Comment 52, posted at 03.04.17 13:11:27 by Dunx Reply

    DunxSuper Rugby player
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 51) : that could work. Know they tried something like that in the varsity cup. Truth be told, I don’t think most of us want that. I can understand the ref missing few things,the game is fast and he is under pressure. The tmo doesn’t have that excuse, if he chooses to get involved, just do it fairly. I was glad when I heaRd the tmo will be less involved this year,even if it might cost you a try or 2. The challenge will juse involve the tmo more and it might start becoming like cricket where they challenge more because they are hopeful and have a challenge, hoping the tmo will pick up something stupid like the first EO cleanup at a ruck. No, there are no easy fixes for this. Think the worst thing is that this was suck a great game and I believe we deserved the win. If we played crap or if we won, I would complain a lot less ; )

  • Comment 53, posted at 03.04.17 13:12:53 by HeinF Reply

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  • @Dunx (Comment 52) : : It is basically what is happening now, saw the other day Aussies are trialling a blue card, where there suspects a concussion and orders player off for independent examination

  • Comment 54, posted at 03.04.17 13:15:16 by The hound Reply
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  • Rob’s comments on the refereeing. https://youtu.be/Q0w-is3QwSk

  • Comment 55, posted at 03.04.17 13:20:24 by jakkalas Reply

    jakkalasCurrie Cup player
     
  • @Dunx (Comment 52) : Exactly :mrgreen: . Dancing Bear can clarify here but the NFL has these remote (as in off-location) officials that decide on certain reviews if memory serves.

    @HeinF (Comment 53) : Do you think coaches would waste a challenge on something benign if they only get one per half? I suppose if a try is scored at half-time whistle or at full-time and the challenge has not been used it could get a little silly. Thanks for the input!

  • Comment 56, posted at 03.04.17 13:20:45 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Die skeidsregters was n sirkus!

    Look at the game without sound like I had to at a party.

    10 times worse.

  • Comment 57, posted at 03.04.17 13:53:29 by Honey Badger Reply

    Honey BadgerCurrie Cup player
     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 56) : Yes,meant more about close to halftime or at the end of the game. And thanks,that is why we come here,for some descent conversation!

  • Comment 58, posted at 03.04.17 13:59:48 by HeinF Reply

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  • @vanmartin (Comment 56) : I think what you are talking about will slow the game down even more and anyway who calls the video referral the captain/players on the field or the coaches off the field.

  • Comment 59, posted at 03.04.17 14:17:11 by The hound Reply
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  • Interesting question: If this neck thing is being quite so strictly, would it not be possible for teams to actually make use of it at the breakdown…go,for the ball, but position yourself in such a way that you can basically not be cleaned out without the guy doing the cleaning out touching you somewhere in the region of the neck and/or head?

  • Comment 60, posted at 03.04.17 15:15:30 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 56) :

    In the NFL the head referee on the field goes to a TV box and watch for himself, but they always have an onfield call 1st and the review is to either confirm or overturn. Burden of proof is on overturn.

    NHL (hockey). From the few games Ive watched, it appeared they had a panel in Toronto that does reviews for all matches. One I saw was cather interesting. You may kick the puck all over the rink, but you cannot kick a goal. However if the puck bounce inadvertently of a skate into the goal it’s a goal.
    So the reviewers had to decide the intent of the player in awarding the goal or not.

  • Comment 61, posted at 03.04.17 15:18:35 by fyndraai Reply
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    fyndraaiTeam captain
     
  • @pastorshark (Comment 60) : That is exactly the problem. It is extremely difficult to clean out a player who is bent over busy trying to steal the ball off the tackled player, without touching his head or neck. Rugby would be basically impossible as every ruck and maul there would be infringements since the player is standing low and facing you. To clear them without making contact with the head or neck you would have to go off your feet which is illegal, or come in from the side which is also illegal.

  • Comment 62, posted at 03.04.17 15:26:04 by jakkalas Reply

    jakkalasCurrie Cup player
     
  • Happily, after two days passing, there is less emotion. Unfortunately for Sanzaar/Saru, they don’t see fit to comment on referees matters, which only increases fan frustration. Interesting that in the political world there’s a wave of leaks, not so much with sports administrators. SANZAAR/SARU developers a brand that is compromised because of its. If us average Sharks fans saw problems beforehand with van Heerden/Greeff, why didn’t some highly paid planners. After the bulls game two years ago I suspected van Heerden/Greeff were incapable of officiating at an acceptable level. Now all doubts have been removed. Information from the rugby administrators would assuage our concerns butterflies I don’t believe they have any interest in the fans anymore.

  • Comment 63, posted at 03.04.17 16:45:07 by SeanJeff Reply
    Author
    SeanJeffSuper Rugby player
     
  • BTW there’s nothing wrong with Kriel’s actions during the Malcolm Marx try. :)

    http://makeagif.com/i/DGHLk2

    Tera Mtembu’s clearance of Ruan Dreyer in the same maul (unpenalised)

    http://makeagif.com/i/9C19ox

    There still isn’t a full match video on youtube to look at that ruck incident

  • Comment 64, posted at 03.04.17 17:27:30 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @pastorshark (Comment 60) : That’s one of the problems when ball carriers barge head down into defenders. As I said on another thread, in an incident in the UK earlier this year the judicial officer cleared the defender and expunged his yellow card

  • Comment 65, posted at 03.04.17 17:50:29 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @The hound (Comment 54) : This is at club level as the HIA is only done at elite level

  • Comment 66, posted at 03.04.17 17:51:37 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @pastorshark (Comment 60) : The ruck laws state that your head and shoulders have to be above your hips for that exact reason…

  • Comment 67, posted at 03.04.17 20:06:51 by byron Reply

    byronSuper Rugby player
     
  • Blaming the ref and co. For the loss to the Lions reminds me of the 2011 rwc debacle. Boks continued their downward spiral, instead of identifying why we couldn’t convert all of that territorial and possession dominance into points.

    Sharks need to find where they went wrong, and fix it.

    Can’t fix a poor call by the ref.

    Either way, Saturday’s game still ticked all of my rugby expectation boxes – full-blown entertainment. Simply cannot feel like a loser after that game.

  • Comment 68, posted at 03.04.17 20:58:55 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • Lions coach Johan Ackermann hinted that the marginal calls went both ways.

    “The biggest adjustment we made [at half-time] was our discipline in the game,” Ackermann said of a first half that saw his team struggle against the abrasive Sharks.

    “We gave too many easy penalties away,” he said, adding: “Maybe we didn’t play to the referee.

    “Maybe we saw things different. [Ruan] Dreyer was on his feet, Malcolm [Marx] was on his feet and Warren [Whiteley] was on his feet,” he said of a string of breakdown penalties against the Lions.

    “There was a couple of times we felt we had to get reward, but he [the referee] saw it different – [he saw] that there wasn’t clear daylight.”

  • Comment 69, posted at 03.04.17 21:01:07 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Baylion (Comment 69) : Sharks had a try and scoring opportunities overturned due to poor discipline – could’ve had the game sealed by half time.

    Then Curwin missed a crucial touch finder, Lions bamboozled Sharks defense, and we lost.

    Rugby in SA will never recover unless us fans hold our team’s accountable for losing, instead of calling for the refs blood.

    Time to “Make SA Rugby Great Again”

  • Comment 70, posted at 03.04.17 21:11:31 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • Sharks posted a pretty funny video on Facebook regarding the high tackles.

  • Comment 71, posted at 03.04.17 21:13:23 by Dragnipur Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    DragnipurSuper Rugby player
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 70) : All we ask for is consistency. The players felt they got screwed, which lead to chirping which lead to them getting 10m on a penalty which lead to a team warning in the second half. That irritation kills momentum and is absolutely bullshit.

  • Comment 72, posted at 03.04.17 21:15:18 by Dragnipur Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    DragnipurSuper Rugby player
     
  • :twisted: @FireTheLooser (Comment 68) : 100% with you!!! Look at the game and take what.you can from it!
    1. Sharks need to find a way to clean a ruck without going near the head of a player as all refs are going to be strick on it.
    2. Players need to tackle lower. Going for the midriff/navel. That way if the player duck or slip you still don’t hit him above the shoulders.
    3. Intensity on defence and attack was extremely good and needs to stay at that level for the Jaguares.
    4. Scrums and lineouts was OK but can improve a bit.
    5. Love the attitude of the players. Smiling and enjoying the game! Happy players = motivated kicking ass players.
    6. If Johan Greeff comes close to the stadium someone needs to take him out before he can get within 100 yards of the TMO booth!!!! :twisted:

  • Comment 73, posted at 03.04.17 21:17:56 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @byron (Comment 67) : Sure…practically that just doesn’t happen though, does it?

  • Comment 74, posted at 03.04.17 21:33:23 by pastorshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Administrator
    pastorsharkCoach
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 70) : @JD (Comment 73) : Fair comments…

  • Comment 75, posted at 03.04.17 21:38:13 by pastorshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Administrator
    pastorsharkCoach
     
  • @pastorshark (Comment 75) : especially my last point!!! :lol:

  • Comment 76, posted at 03.04.17 22:52:53 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JDAssistant coach
     
  • @Dragnipur (Comment 72) : Again, it’s something the Sharks need to work on – poor calls have become part and parcel of the game, learn to deal with it without getting frustrated.

    A cool head is where the game is won.

  • Comment 77, posted at 04.04.17 05:58:11 by FireTheLooser Reply

    Assistant coach
     
  • Well guys it’s time to move on. Look ahead to the next challenge.

  • Comment 78, posted at 04.04.17 06:10:47 by coolfusion Reply

    coolfusionTeam captain
     
  • My view is while on subject of game officials is what I said before, the Sharks need to change and one of those changes is how they approach a game, dont just do analysis on your opposition but also analysis on ref,tmo etc so before Sharks get on field they know what to expect and are prepared and even use or abuse that to thete advantage

  • Comment 79, posted at 04.04.17 09:34:02 by benji Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Team captain
     
  • @JD (Comment 73) : I know where the TMO booth is at Kingspark and I watch the game very close to that ;-)

  • Comment 80, posted at 04.04.17 09:54:30 by KingRiaan Reply

    KingRiaanTeam captain
     
  • @Baylion (Comment 64) : dunno – your animated gif moves so fast that I cannot see how Kriel grabs du Preez. From the reverse angle, I don’t see how he could not have his arm over the guy’s shoulder.

  • Comment 81, posted at 04.04.17 10:25:32 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylanHead Coach
     
  • Referees for clash with Jaguares: Angus Gardner/Marius Jonker TMO; I see that van Heerden/Greeff nowhere to be seen in action this weekend…too late SANZAAR

  • Comment 82, posted at 05.04.17 07:26:00 by SeanJeff Reply
    Author
    SeanJeffSuper Rugby player
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 81) : Maybe the video shows it better

    https://youtu.be/D4xR2HYSeAE?t=84

    I have checked the full match video and found the other incidents mentioned.

    Tambwe: Not sure what you guys wanted done. The commentators said “penalty advantage” but I didn’t hear the ref saying it. The ref allowed play to go on and the Sharks won another penalty advantage during the same phase when Bosch put over the drop. Whether the TMO would have reviewed if the Sharks hadn’t scored one will never know as there was a penalty advantage in a better position. The same applies to Tera Mtembu’s neck clearance before Marx’s try. Much ado about nothing giving the outcome of that phase of play.

    Neck touch by Marx: Marx and the Sharks player bound and formed a ruck, Marx initially grabbed the Sharks player on the arm, his hand slid onto the neck and he immediately released his hold. He didn’t take hold of the player’s neck and continue with the hold, unlike Etienne Oosthuizen (twice) and Tera Mtembu
    https://youtu.be/NNu7ZoqmR5Y?t=3296

    Ruan Botha: Very harsh penalty, which probably shouldn’t have been

  • Comment 83, posted at 05.04.17 07:34:52 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • @Baylion (Comment 83) :
    ”,The lady doth protest too much, methinks.”
    You are never going to convince yourself never mind us that Greef is nothing more than a despicable crook.
    I don’t care what else he does in his miserable life, but lets just hope he never comes near a Sharks game again.

  • Comment 84, posted at 05.04.17 07:46:33 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     
  • @The hound (Comment 84) : Nah, just following through with what I said I’d do once I can viewed the incidents.

  • Comment 85, posted at 05.04.17 07:53:30 by Baylion Reply

    BaylionSuper Rugby player
     
  • Van Heerden assisting Peyper for Stormers vs Chiefs. My condolences to the Stormers. These guys seem to like blowing against the teams starting with”S”.

  • Comment 86, posted at 05.04.17 07:58:12 by sudhir Reply

    Vodacom Cup player
     
  • @sudhir (Comment 86) :
    Once again the inconsistency,Sharks play a foreign team Aussie ref.
    Stormers play foreign team ,hometown ref.
    Bring in one set of circumstances for everyone.
    Equal playing field ,neutral ref for every game.

  • Comment 87, posted at 05.04.17 08:21:44 by The hound Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    The houndAssistant coach
     

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