Lions team confirmed

Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Lions, Original Content, Super 14 on 13 Mar 2008 at 06:00

Lions coach Loffie Eloff has confirmed his side to play the Sharks at Ellis Park on Saturday.

The side shows two changes from the unit that failed to beat a 14-man Bulls outfit at Loftus last weekend. Flyhalf Louis Strydom is out of action for a month, meaning that former Free State fullback Jaco van Schalkwyk will operate at pivot. Wings Dusty Noble and Rayno Benjamin will be looking to put in drastically improved performances after both looking decidedly shaky against the Bulls, particularly on defence.

Anton van Zyl comes in at lock to replace Willem Stoltz, while Franco van der Merwe will assume the former’s position on the bench. Star open-side flanker Baywatch Grobbelaar had been passed fit to play after an injury scare earlier in the week and will take his place in an impressive loose trio with Bok Joe van Niekerk and skipper Ernst Joubert.

Lions team:

15. Louis Ludik
14. Dusty Noble
13. Jaco Pretorius
12. Walter Venter
11. Rayno Benjamin
10. Jaco van Schalkwyk
9. Jano Vermaak
8. Joe van Niekerk
7. Ernst Joubert (Captain)
6. Cobus Grobbelaar
5. Gerhard Mostert
4. Anton van Zyl
3. Ross Geldenhuys
2. Willie Wepener
1. Heinke van der Merwe

16. Ethienne Reynecke
17. JC Janse van Rensburg
18. Franco van der Merwe
19. Willem Alberts
20. Chris Jonck
21. Rudi Vogt
22. Jannie Boshoff


  • i’m glad Dick’s being cautious about this Lions game and selected a strong team with not too many changes, makes one feel more confident about a good win…hope the Sharks hit their straps

  • Comment 1, posted at 13.03.08 06:59:35 by spykerbaard Reply
  • I’m full of confidence for this game… I reckon we’re going to kill them.

  • Comment 2, posted at 13.03.08 07:40:27 by robdylan Reply
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  • yes the lions are playing with 14 men again and the sharks 16. rayno benjamin is so bad he actually helps the opposition. i am surprised loffie doesn’t tell the guy to do like his name and ry nou!

  • Comment 3, posted at 13.03.08 07:51:50 by try time Reply

  • He’s got wheels… just there doesn’t seem any reliable way to get him to actually catch the ball

  • Comment 4, posted at 13.03.08 07:57:19 by robdylan Reply
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  • christie noble had wheels and….
    demas has wheels and…
    isn’t there more needed from a rugby player
    keegan and albert have wheels and a whole lot more to offer.

  • Comment 5, posted at 13.03.08 08:03:06 by try time Reply

  • i am not complaining though, they don’t play for the sharks. i just think it funny why we wonder why our teams battle against the kiwi teams.

  • Comment 6, posted at 13.03.08 08:06:15 by try time Reply

  • tt – i think there’s a bigger issue here.

    We need to be brutally honest with ourselves. We don’t have the depth to field 5 sides in this competition

  • Comment 7, posted at 13.03.08 08:12:10 by robdylan Reply
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  • i would rather have a player like odwa who has sacrificed a little pace for great ball handling skills than a player that catches 1 in 3 passes and runs faster to the touch line.

  • Comment 8, posted at 13.03.08 08:14:23 by try time Reply

  • Odwa needs to raise his game, though… there’ve been some uncharacteristic fumbles of late.

    Still, he remains an awesome player – so committed.

  • Comment 9, posted at 13.03.08 08:20:37 by robdylan Reply
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  • RD, if we cant keep our players here then you’re right… whats the figure now for S africans playing overseas? the coaching hasnt been too hot either, Muir and Meyer apart…. an improvement there and we would have the depth

  • Comment 10, posted at 13.03.08 08:24:06 by spykerbaard Reply

  • yeah – you are right, actually. There’s no problem with the quality of the raw material… it’s just the manufacturing process that isn’t working.

    Too few good factories, with good management. We are the China of the rugby world, exporting half-finished crap to rugby teams all over the world πŸ˜‰

  • Comment 11, posted at 13.03.08 08:26:41 by robdylan Reply
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  • rob we would if we didn’t let an entire team head overseas. we have the depth, i don’t think we have five coaches good enough for this level of rugby. sa rugby is also falling backwards due to a culture of neglecting players. look at players like albert, stefan, percy, aj etc look at the value their experience adds to the team. even when they are not playing. we get rid of our players before they can pass on their knowledge to the next guy. also by not keeping players for longer we don’t have players that have the experience to be coaches.

  • Comment 12, posted at 13.03.08 08:27:25 by try time Reply

  • yeah typical saffas. we sweat getting out the raw material, polish it up export it and then buy it back as a beautiful useful item for 10 times the price.

  • Comment 13, posted at 13.03.08 08:32:22 by try time Reply

  • ok – yeah, agree.

    In Dick and Plum, Sharks have a coaching combo that’s good enough at this level. Bashford is improving a lot through working with those guys.

    Eloff, Erasmus and Drotske are also all good coaches, but each of them are operating without sufficient backup… they are carrying other guys that are not experienced enough at this level.

    Ludeke is just a joke and it’s a sad indictment on the quality of coaching in SA that he is in charge of a Super 14 franchise.

  • Comment 14, posted at 13.03.08 08:35:25 by robdylan Reply
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  • who has matfield passed his knowledge on to. thankfully johan during the world cup. who did john smit pass his knowledge on to thankfully bismark. os-jannie. and where are the sharks on the log?

  • Comment 15, posted at 13.03.08 08:38:08 by try time Reply

  • who did Os pass his knowledge on to thankfully eddie andrews…

  • Comment 16, posted at 13.03.08 08:40:40 by wpw Reply
  • Rayno Benjamin isn’t that bad a player – he can tackle and score tries, and isnt afraid of getting involved.

    The problem is simply that he isn’t S14 quality, the same being true of a number of Lions players.

    However, he isn’t nearly the reason for their losses. The lock pairing is a lot closer to the action and just as, if not more, unsuited to this level, while one of the most important positions on the field, flyhalf, is occupied by a real no-hoper.

    Singling out a wing for special attention is missing the biggest part of the Lions woes.

  • Comment 17, posted at 13.03.08 08:41:44 by Big Fish Reply
    Big Fish
  • tt

    great point about SA neglecting the value of experienced players

  • Comment 18, posted at 13.03.08 08:42:19 by spykerbaard Reply

  • You know, it’s only really at wing that we really seem to be struggling, though… Lots of quality at prop is emerging (although still not enough 3s). We are overflowing with good hookers (and then there’s Derick Kuun). Lock is fine, loose forwards we have in bucketloads. Plenty scrummies, not so many flyhalves, lots of good centres. Fullback is looking a bit dodgy, but some nice talent coming through in Daniller and Ludik.

    Which of the regular starting wingers are Super 14 quality, though? I’m going to put my head on the block here and say that none of Benjamin, Noble, Demas or Passens are good enough, while Fredericks, Chavanga, Naqelevuki and Nokwe need to build on where they are now.

    Our only proven Super 14 quality wings are Pietersen, Habana and the Ndunganes.

  • Comment 19, posted at 13.03.08 08:43:21 by robdylan Reply
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  • fish, disagree. rayno has wasted enough try opportunities during currie cup as well. he has thrown away tries that would have won lions the game. and i see he has carried that splendid form straight into the super 14.

  • Comment 20, posted at 13.03.08 08:50:16 by try time Reply

  • Good point Rob.

    Passens is what 36 now? :mrgreen:

    Fredericks is not that bad but he wouldnt do well as test level…

    If Benjamin plays like he did in last yrs CC then he will be right up there.

  • Comment 21, posted at 13.03.08 08:51:44 by wpw Reply
  • One feels the Lions need to settle on a lock pair and allow them time to develop. They seem to change at least one lock every week.

    Fish is right, though… although Grant is starting to improve and Liefling has his admirers, the Cheetahs and Lions really don’t have a Super rugby quality flyhalf. Even JLP, who did well in the early rounds, should ideally have been learning under someone with more experience.

  • Comment 22, posted at 13.03.08 08:52:53 by robdylan Reply
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  • I like Eddie Fredericks. I think he’s a very underrated wing.

  • Comment 23, posted at 13.03.08 08:53:23 by robdylan Reply
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  • There is a desperate of quality wings Rob, and I think its partly because we underestimate the value of the modern wing.

    We want to play our best players “close to the action”, or we want to have safe options at wing, forgetting the space and opportunities that a wing can find, being one of the most “free” players on the field.

    I agree with you that those players are not S14 quality – but there really isn’t anybody better.

    I think Fredericks is a pretty good player though.

  • Comment 24, posted at 13.03.08 08:59:58 by Big Fish Reply
    Big Fish
  • He is

  • Comment 25, posted at 13.03.08 09:23:33 by robdylan Reply
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  • …Lions really don’t have a Super rugby quality flyhalf…

    We do, he is just injured at the moment…(AP)

  • Comment 26, posted at 13.03.08 09:30:08 by walter van Reply

    walter van Lions World
  • The flyhalf problem is greater then S14…if they don’t allow Butch to play we are going to have a Bok fly-half problem.

  • Comment 27, posted at 13.03.08 09:57:06 by Dive Pass Reply

    Dive Pass
  • Walter, apologies, but you are spot on. I meant they don’t have one available right now!

  • Comment 28, posted at 13.03.08 10:01:06 by robdylan Reply
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  • We really miss AP…but that just shows you that you need backup in key positions. Also AP, can have his moments, he had a shocker in the WC against Tonga…and I was at the match…LOL!

  • Comment 29, posted at 13.03.08 10:11:21 by walter van Reply

    walter van Lions World
  • That’s not a bad bunch of individuals, but they dont seem to be able to put it together as a team. Geldenhuys is definately S14 quality and Wepener has improved a lot since he came on the scene. Also glad to see Big Joe is getting back into form. Now if the backline (esp Jaco P and Benjamin) could only hold on to the ball.

    Not that I will be supporting the Lion this weekend πŸ™‚ but I do feel they can do better.

  • Comment 30, posted at 13.03.08 12:24:22 by MysticShark Reply
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  • walter – I am horribly jealous!

  • Comment 31, posted at 13.03.08 12:58:11 by robdylan Reply
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  • Don’t rate Andre Pretorius at all. Reckon he does more bad than good.

    I still think Frans Steyn is a great prospect for a world class Springbok number 10. Big, strong, fast and creative. He has lots to learn, but he’s what? 20? In a few years time with some experience he could be unstoppable.

  • Comment 32, posted at 13.03.08 13:20:35 by Waz Reply

  • a little bit of consistency and a lot less of being injured would go a long way for Petoors.

    I just love that skeef look he gives the posts when lining up a shot at goal…

  • Comment 33, posted at 13.03.08 13:26:43 by robdylan Reply
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  • Heh, he reminds me of Clint Eastwood when he does that. πŸ˜€

  • Comment 34, posted at 13.03.08 13:31:41 by Waz Reply

  • Lions have a good front row, quality loosies and a promising scrummie and fullback.

    A few weak links….mainly on the wing and at flyhalf. Also in the 2nd row.

  • Comment 35, posted at 13.03.08 15:01:56 by Villie Reply
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  • I see black players getting a fair go at the Lions!! a massive selection of 2 in the starting line-up 😯


  • Comment 36, posted at 13.03.08 15:08:57 by JT Reply
  • JT – I am actually quite annoyed about what is going on there, particularly the statements being made in the media. It’s like they’re as good as saying “We have to field two kak wings because we don’t have any good black players”. That kind of thinking really irritates me, given the way they treat the black players that they have. Also, it’s their own responsibility to develop these guys and they’re not doing it.

  • Comment 37, posted at 13.03.08 15:14:12 by robdylan Reply
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  • JT, who in our current squad would you have liked to be in the starting XV as well?

  • Comment 38, posted at 13.03.08 15:14:53 by walter van Reply

    walter van Lions World
  • JT, I’ll give you a hint, the other players that we can pick from are:
    Eugene Maqwelana (tighthead prop)…Ross Geldenhuys has played himself into the position.
    Earl Rose – currently injured
    Thabang Molefe – doesn’t feel like playing…
    Wigan Pekeur – Right wing, so Dusty Noble keeps him out at the moment.

  • Comment 39, posted at 13.03.08 15:23:58 by walter van Reply

    walter van Lions World
  • Walter… this is exactly my point.

    I don’t dispute for a moment that the guys you mention are definitely weaker than the encumbents. The real question, though, is “why aren’t there better black players available”?

  • Comment 40, posted at 13.03.08 15:26:31 by robdylan Reply
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  • You’d have to be mental to drop Ross Geldenhuys, BTW

  • Comment 41, posted at 13.03.08 15:26:49 by robdylan Reply
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  • Walter, to be fair, there has long been a clear directive that teams need to produce or promote black players.

    If the Lions are saying they don’t have any or they cant find any, then they are the only ones to blame – there are plenty of black rugby players to choose from in their region.

    The issue of development is one of actually attempting to advance existing abilities in a player of colour, and that they have failed to do, and with the greatest of respect, the pattern of events surrounding black players at the Lions certainly doesn’t inspire confidence either.

    Just as an example, one needs to consider what the Bulls and Sharks have done for players like Adams, Mametsa, Ndungane (x2) and JPP.

    Those players didnt play for the senior teams as complete players, but they were moulded into better players by being played.

    The Lions have so far managed to take a few age-group stars and fringe and regular Springboks and lose them somewhere in Ellis Park.

    Nothing against the Lions, but like I said, the situation there seems to me to be very questionable.

  • Comment 42, posted at 13.03.08 15:32:13 by Big Fish Reply
    Big Fish
  • Walter

    What happened to Jody Rose???

    Is he playing VC?

  • Comment 43, posted at 13.03.08 15:35:34 by wpw Reply
  • He is on the bench for the VC.

  • Comment 44, posted at 13.03.08 15:40:22 by walter van Reply

    walter van Lions World
  • I don’t really mind so much if the Lions reckon they’re going to turn Benjamin and Noble into better players by playing them at S14 level. These guys will have to get better as a result. What I don’t like is the defeatist talk creeping in, implying there’s a whole bunch of white wingers who are better, but can’t be picked.

  • Comment 45, posted at 13.03.08 15:41:45 by robdylan Reply
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  • I quite like Benjamin…I’m convinced that he makes our team on merit. I haven’t really been convinced about Noble.

  • Comment 46, posted at 13.03.08 15:46:44 by walter van Reply

    walter van Lions World
  • The problem with what you are saying Rob is that they have merely taken fringe players from other provinces and put them into their starting line-up, and those players look no different than when they first arrived – hence no development.

    Look, truth be told, I have always had a great liking for the Lions, who are my second SA team, so its not about me wanting to bad-mouth them, but rather about concern about where they are headed.

  • Comment 47, posted at 13.03.08 15:49:07 by Big Fish Reply
    Big Fish
  • Geez BF – your picture freaks me out! 😯 😯

    I keep on thinking this cool, calm and collected philosepher(spell) – R U Like that??? ❓ ❓ πŸ˜†

  • Comment 48, posted at 13.03.08 15:53:22 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
  • Eugene Maqwelana (tighthead prop)…Ross Geldenhuys has played himself into the position.
    Earl Rose – currently injured
    Thabang Molefe – doesn’t feel like playing…
    Wigan Pekeur – Right wing, so Dusty Noble keeps him out at the moment.

    13.03.08 15:23:58 – walter van

    The question is why do you only have these few guys in the squad? Why has Molefe not even had a chance on the bench!? How many are in the VC side that could get a go?? Why do we have quality blakcs on the bench for other unions for example AD? He would be brilliant in the Lions team! Why does Jaco Pretorius stay in the side and plays crap week after week!?
    Just thought I would ask… πŸ˜•

  • Comment 49, posted at 13.03.08 15:56:41 by JT Reply
  • ..The question is why do you only have these few guys in the squad?

    I don’t know…maybe we don’t have money to afford the quality players. We bought a few guys but thye don’t seem to make the cut – Wigan Pekeur looked okay in the S14 warmup games, but then looked terrible in some of the Vodacom Cup games.

    We bought a flanker from somewhere, he played in the warmup against the Bulls, I’ve never seen such a shockingly bad player, I don’t even want to mention his name, he was replaced after just 10 mins.

    Justin St. Jerry is starting at 12 for the Vodacom Cup side this weekend, he looked good in the games I’ve seen him play so far this year, perhaps he can take the step up to S14.

  • Comment 50, posted at 13.03.08 16:05:06 by walter van Reply

    walter van Lions World
  • Benjamin actually played some very good rugby for the Stormrs and Boland. I think he’s got a confidence problem at the moment.

  • Comment 51, posted at 13.03.08 16:12:43 by robdylan Reply
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  • 13.03.08 16:05:06 – walter van
    Looks like bad planning… I believe there is a bunch of good VC black players that could have strengthened the Lions but the powers that be did not seem to bother about the racial mix of the Lions. Same problem with the Cheetahs while the Stormers are giving opportunities to some black players.
    I just can not believe that there is not a black guy in Gauteng that can match or better Jaco P on current form! How many knock-ons has he made this season!? But yet we shout quota when a black guy makes a mistake but it is ok for a player like Jaco P or Henno Mentz or JP Nel to be useless… AND THEY STILL GET PICKED 😯

    BTW I hate the fact that a useless fijian is taking away the spot of a black wing that could have been there πŸ‘Ώ

  • Comment 52, posted at 13.03.08 16:15:43 by JT Reply
  • JT, I have to disagree with you on that one, Jaco Pretorius is one of our best players

  • Comment 53, posted at 13.03.08 16:24:55 by walter van Reply

    walter van Lions World
  • I don’t scheme ol Kalli Vuki is so bad JT, just needs to run faster than half pace.
    Hit his stride against the bulle and put two tacklers on the ground.

  • Comment 54, posted at 13.03.08 16:27:14 by provincejoulekkading Reply
  • he also seems to blow hot and cold, though… maybe he’s not “hungry” enough. Comes from OODLES of money, not so?

  • Comment 55, posted at 13.03.08 16:28:36 by robdylan Reply
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  • I guess I am stating the obvious.
    I rekon we should not treat the Lions with too much respect. This is a game we ought to get 5points from. 4points aren’t enough.

  • Comment 56, posted at 13.03.08 16:31:05 by BigFAN Reply

  • He was pretty hungry 2 seasons ago, we couldn’t afford to offer him a contract so he agreed to play without one..and that season he scored something like 12 tries in 14 games.

  • Comment 57, posted at 13.03.08 16:31:37 by walter van Reply

    walter van Lions World
  • you serious, Walter? That’s a f*cking AWESOME attitude.

  • Comment 58, posted at 13.03.08 16:32:42 by robdylan Reply
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  • 13.03.08 16:24:55 – walter van

    Your opinion I guess but my point is that we have useless white players who play every week but still have black players not getting a chance… πŸ™„

    IMO Jaco is overrated and utter crap. When Jaco v Schalckwyk was a much better 13 than Jaco… he is now at 10 so can’t play 13 but just making my point for the previous games! When will AP be back?? IMO he will be great under these ELVS πŸ™‚

  • Comment 59, posted at 13.03.08 16:33:37 by JT Reply
  • You know what? There should be a national draft set up specifically for black players. The proviso would be that one franchise cannot leave a quality black player in their Vodacom Cup team if another franchise has a Super 14 spot open for that player.

    So Shimange would be on tour with the Bulls right now… and the Lions could have Frank Wagenstroom.

  • Comment 60, posted at 13.03.08 16:34:50 by robdylan Reply
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  • 13.03.08 16:34:50 – robdylan

    AFAIK Shimmi is injured or just coming back from injury…

  • Comment 61, posted at 13.03.08 16:35:49 by JT Reply
  • JT – the fact that you and Walter disagree over the merits of the specific player does nothing to detract from your arguement as a whole, though.

    There are plenty white players (Wynand Olivier, JP Nel) who dish out utter crap week after week, yet are still picked. Black guys tend to be dropped after one or two shaky performances and labeled “fokken kwota”.

  • Comment 62, posted at 13.03.08 16:36:28 by robdylan Reply
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  • He also won the Lions player of the year award that year, and I agree that he hasn’t had the same great season in 2007 or so far this year, but only Jaque Fourie is better than him at the Lions.

    AP is out for the whole S14 as far as I know.

  • Comment 63, posted at 13.03.08 16:36:37 by walter van Reply

    walter van Lions World
  • Ice – what is the sound of one hand clapping?


  • Comment 64, posted at 13.03.08 16:36:56 by Big Fish Reply
    Big Fish
  • Shimmie is in the WP Vodacom Cup side at the moment, not injured

  • Comment 65, posted at 13.03.08 16:38:20 by walter van Reply

    walter van Lions World
  • 13.03.08 16:36:28 – robdylan

    EXACTLY! And biggest case in point IMO is that useless Brad Barritt! How can he play 12 ahead of Steyn or even AD is beyond me!!??


  • Comment 66, posted at 13.03.08 16:38:32 by JT Reply
  • 13.03.08 16:38:20 – walter van

    Ok, then he should be in NZ! IMO he is twice the hooker Britz is! Britz should play 6 and Burger 8 and drop that other kwota #46!

  • Comment 67, posted at 13.03.08 16:40:05 by JT Reply
  • Really? I thought he was captaining the Vodacom Cup team…

  • Comment 68, posted at 13.03.08 16:40:41 by robdylan Reply
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  • My ideal Stormers loose trio is Watson at 6, Schalla at 7 and Brits at 8.

    JT… I know you’re just messing with me, son! Tell me you saw Brad’s little chip to set up Muller’s try!

  • Comment 69, posted at 13.03.08 16:42:15 by robdylan Reply
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  • He is captaining the squad but with a heavily strapped knee and by his own admission he is a bit unfit.

  • Comment 70, posted at 13.03.08 16:42:19 by provincejoulekkading Reply
  • yes, I saw the strapped knee when he played at Ellis Park a few weeks ago..looks serious

  • Comment 71, posted at 13.03.08 16:44:54 by walter van Reply

    walter van Lions World
  • 13.03.08 16:42:15 – robdylan

    Nah, I still think AD should start ahead of Brad and Steyn should be there but Muir wants to screw up Steyns rugby future πŸ™ Well so it seems πŸ‘Ώ

    WTF JdV is doing at 12 is beyond me too! I would rather have JdV at 11 where he belongs and send AD down to the Cape to play 12 πŸ™‚

  • Comment 72, posted at 13.03.08 16:45:04 by JT Reply
  • JT, is AD Adrian Jacobs? If you rate him you are nuts..LOL!

  • Comment 73, posted at 13.03.08 16:47:02 by walter van Reply

    walter van Lions World
  • Rugby is a 22-man game and Adi Jacobs is an absolutely critical part of the Sharks 22. No way we’d ever let him go anywhere. Well, not this season, I mean.

  • Comment 74, posted at 13.03.08 16:47:29 by robdylan Reply
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  • Yaso walter,you gave us that game hey.
    thanks :mrgreen:

  • Comment 75, posted at 13.03.08 16:47:38 by provincejoulekkading Reply
  • Francois Steyn: FFS he wins the WC for the Bokke and has to make do with 15??? WHY? At least this week he is at 10 allthough 12 should be his position! What is Muir thinking??? πŸ˜•

  • Comment 76, posted at 13.03.08 16:48:05 by JT Reply
  • Walter…. I beg you… don’t go down that route πŸ˜‰

  • Comment 77, posted at 13.03.08 16:51:27 by robdylan Reply
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  • JT… you need to get hold of KSA and Dive Pass and ask them to mail you a membership card.

  • Comment 78, posted at 13.03.08 16:52:47 by robdylan Reply
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  • wow. 5 o’clock comes around and it’s tumbleweed city around here πŸ˜‰

  • Comment 79, posted at 13.03.08 17:01:21 by robdylan Reply
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  • And if you down in CT it time to SUIP!

  • Comment 80, posted at 13.03.08 17:07:26 by provincejoulekkading Reply
  • yeeeehaaaa

  • Comment 81, posted at 13.03.08 17:11:29 by robdylan Reply
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  • WoW

    What a team

    Think we can noch up 5 points here…

  • Comment 82, posted at 13.03.08 17:19:38 by Hmmm Reply

  • Walter are they giving you a hard time, maybe you should remind the Stormer dudes as to who bought up the cream of the Lions darker players and then you can also remind them that their grandiose statements of how well integrated their team is, actually includes 3 foreigners. 😈

  • Comment 83, posted at 13.03.08 17:22:26 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the Subtle
  • That we being the LIONS

    Just need to find a replacement at flyhalf and right wing

    v Schalkwyk is nooooo 10…
    Rose was sooooooo bad against Force…I must have jinksed him after the Blues game when I was saying there was no way he could play 2nd fiddle to Strydom…even if we wanted to play safe….

    Dusty is nooooo rugby player….

  • Comment 84, posted at 13.03.08 17:24:34 by Hmmm Reply

  • 13.03.08 16:45:04 – JT

    The Sortmers have the worst centre pair in the comp at the moment….even the LIONS and bulls have better centre pairs….


  • Comment 85, posted at 13.03.08 17:26:45 by Hmmm Reply

  • the Bulls have a center pair?

  • Comment 86, posted at 13.03.08 17:42:08 by robdylan Reply
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  • 13.03.08 17:26:45 – Hmmm

    I am not argueing that! IMO JdV needs to move back to his original position! 11 πŸ‘Ώ

  • Comment 87, posted at 13.03.08 23:20:26 by JT Reply
  • or 23

  • Comment 88, posted at 13.03.08 23:46:23 by robdylan Reply
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