There’s a bit of a Mexican standoff in the making as John Plumtree and Peter de Villiers square up over where Ruan Pienaar’s playing future lies.
When Plumtree faced the asembled media contingent after Saturday evening’s game, the majority of the questions were focused on Pienaar – why it was that he was picked as reserve scrumhalf and where Plumtree intended to use him for the remainder of the season. Plumtree was pretty unequivocal in replying that “Ruan’s going to be played at nine”. When pressed further, he elaborated that the decision was aimed towards “getting him to feel good about his game and the game of footie in general”.
The implication is that the notoriouly fragile Pienaar has returned from his Tri-Nations sojourn a broken man – a player unsure of his own worth and doubting his talent and role in the team. It’s a situation he’s been in before, as recently as last year and a stint at scrumhalf, which saw Pienaar crowned as Currie Cup player o the month as well as emerging as the form SA scrummie in the latter half of the competition did wonders for his confidence and gave him a good base from which to further explore his talents, at flyhalf.
Plumtree’s current plan, then, makes good sense, but you can’t discount the fact that the Bok coach does not want Pienaar back at scrumhalf and still sees him very much as a flyhalf option, as reported in the press last week. When Plumtree was asked whether de Villiers had spoken to him about the issue last week, he quipped, “I haven’t spoken to him – he hasn’t called me. We’ve been working and I guess he’s on holiday!”
De Villiers, though, has a point too, although as always, one wishes he could have made it somewhat more clearly to all concerned. Pienaar, despie all the euphoria about Morne Steyn, is still a bloody good flyhalf and did very little wrong in his performances at flyhalf for the Boks. A few kicks that hit the posts here and there changed the course of a season that was shaping up very nicely indeed for the talented pivot. Moving Pienaar to flyhalf is just such a good idea when it comes to his own long-term Bok future, as well as the needs of the Springboks themselves, that it would really be a shame to declare the experiment a failure at this stage.
What do you guys think? Where should Ruan play his rugby?
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I Think Pienaar should stay at scrumhalf, he can be the reserve flyhalf at the Boks and Sharks. This just sucks that the really talented guys are the ones having to suffer, Brent Russell, Frans Steyn and now Ruan. U wont need a great goal kicker if u can score more tries.
scrummy scrummy scrummy
Rob on holidays and I have been struggling with this side the whole day – sth funny. 🙁
He is a natural scrumhalf, only thing for him is lots of competition there,
Surely Plum has not done this without Ruan’s input here?
Utility back.
His strength is his versatility. Rather than lament because he has not been able to make any position his own, he should celebrate and leverage the fact that he is good enough to be a Bok in any backline position. Play him wherever he is needed most and he may still turn into a master somewhere. He should also improve his place kicking, even if the Sharks have other kickers.
It was not the kicks that hit the posts that demonstrated Pienaar’s shortcomings, it was the ones that went over. The one that clinched the Lions series, the 8 against the ABs and the 3, +60m kicks in Hamilton.
@JarsonX (Insomniac) (Comment 1) :
You must be living in a fantasy world. Except for may be elementary school level no team can score enough tries to do without place kicking.
I’m not sure why he has to specialise. A guy like Adam Ashley-Cooper, or Matt Giteau can play a different position from week to week.
Dick Muir’s philosophy is that guys should be able to slot into multiple positions. Surely Pienaar is smart enough to cover scrumhalf and flyhalf. He’d be great as Bok cover for both. Although personally I see him as a flyhalf that covers scrumhalf. Plumtree should work for the greater good of the Boks, Hernandez is not our first priority.
Sanjay Deva
htttp://www.Rugby.SanjayDeva.com
@sanjaydeva (Comment 8) : hey, you’re the famous guy, aren’t you? 🙂 welcome to the site!
LOL no I’m not famous but I’m a very passionate Bok supporter!
I look forward to contributing!
@fyndraai (Comment 7) : hehehe
@sanjaydeva (Comment 8) : jack of all trades, master of none!? Welcome to Sharksworld
@sanjaydeva (Comment 8) : Hernandez might not be our first priority, but success is and he is going to be instrumental in that. He’s a special talent. As plumtree said, let’s get Ruan enjoying his rugby again. He’s been messed around so much.
Funny enough, I read an interview with PDV who said he’d like Ruan to play at 10 for the Sharks but he wasn’t sure if Plum would do that, ie, follow the Boks request. Funny, didn’t Div play Ruan out of position at 15. That after Ruan has played there before and not shining.
He’s a 9 and/or 10. Leave him there. PDV has done more harm than anyone else right now.
I think the national interest always has to come first however. Hernandez is never going to play for the Boks, better to have Pienaar there than Hernandez.
If Pienaar had to play 15 for the Boks than so be it. I agree 15 is not his best position. His problem with playing flyhalf is he just hasn’t had enough game time there.
I’m not sure Plumtree has the national interest on his mind. He may have played Smit at tighthead, but he didn’t give him enough game time in my view.
@sanjaydeva (Comment 14) : Smit played all 13 Super 14 matches for the sharks this season, started 8 of them. That he never got overplayed or injured means he was very well managed by Plumtree. Remember, Plumtree will not be judged on Springbok performances, but those of the Sharks, so you could understand his position – wanting to do right by the national coach, but first priority is the sharks. And that foes for any provincial/S14 coach.
I am working on a lot of presumptions here but this one line in your article Rob:
The implication is that the notoriouly fragile Pienaar has returned from his Tri-Nations sojourn a broken man – a player unsure of his own worth and doubting his talent and role in the team.
If this is the case then Ruan must grow the f up.
Players get shifted all the time and as Fyndraai mentioned his strength is his versatility.
Through this he managed 30+ Bok caps which is a damn privilege.
He is not the #1 scrumhalf in the country, and I seriously doubt he will ever lift Fourie from that position.
However, if he tweaks his game at 10 a little bit, he could be our long lost answer to our problems at 10.
Even so, no matter where he is played or pick, Ruan needs to realise that he needs to work his ass off to become the best and not go and sulk whenever things goes against him.
@Morné (Comment 16) : in a way, I kind me agree. I feel that moving him to 9 is pandering to his insecurity
@robdylan (Comment 17) :
Ruan will be a good 9, we all know that, but he could be a great 10…
@Morné (Comment 18) : @robdylan (Comment 17) : but dont you think guys when your confidence is gone you go back to what you do best? Ruaan has had a bad knock first with the S14 injury and then being no 1 flyhalf to nuber 2 f/b to get splinters in your butt
so start again build confidence and then turn him loose in a new position
@Fattmann (Comment 19) :
Confidence comes from within.
Ruan imo needs to knuckle down and get on with it.
Whether that be at 9 or 10 or wherever does not really matter.
But just about every single report I read about Ruan in the last year seems he feels like a victim.
Pienaar should be playing at ten… shorted sighted Tjorks working for themsleves and not SA Rugby…… 😈
I tend to agree with Morne – Pienaar needs to suck it up.
@Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 21) : sharks are contributing enough – much more than some other unions 😈
I also think that it’s a bit strange that Ruan is so fragile. He is supposed to be a professional – and supposed to grew up some time ago.
Hats off to Plum, who is obviously taking a stand after consultation with Pienaar that he is now not going to bend over backwards to accommodate Peter Divvy. Read between the lines, Plum wants to rebuild the Pienaar to what he knows he can be – and that is at scrummy. Pienaar has been shunted and shafted around for the national interest for long enough only to be reshafted and rewarded as a Fullback.
AS for growing a pair, that is exactly what he is doing, with Plums help, making a challenge on the scrumhalf position, currently occupied by the best scrummy in the world – that challenge, to me indicates that he already has a pretty good pair.
@Salmonoid (Comment 23) :
Did PDiv not say from the start that he wants Ru on 9 ? Or am I dreaming?
@sanjaydeva (Comment 14) :
Hey Sanjay…how about a link to Sharksworld under your list of favourite links on your site?? 😉
Welcome!
ruan has believed all the hype about him being a “world class” talent and all that nonsense! He thinks he deserves to be in the bok run-on team. Umm, who missed 11 points against the british & irish lions? he needs to get over himself & his self-esteem issues! When frans was benched to give his sulking @ss a “confidence boost” did he sulk?
Ruan is a prima-donna of note, and all this attention is pandering to his to ego…
Imagine ruan being wynand olivier, getting dropped completely out of the bok team last year, ruan would commit suicide i tell you, the way he is so fragile…
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 24) : are you purporting to understand what he says
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 24) :
No, Ruan’s first choice was always 9, PDivvy wanted him at ten, convinced Ruan that was where his future was and Plum agreed to play him at 10. Hats off to all of them for accommading the national coach biut I think they can now say been there, done that and get on with what is best for Ruan.
Remember PDivvy likened Pienaar at 10 to the Tigger.
@rekinek (Comment 27) :
PDivvy and myself go waaaayyyyyy back… 😆
@Salmonoid (Comment 28) :
Thanks – so I was not completely dreaming..just had the wrong possie!! 😆
@quota (Comment 26) :
But dont you think that by challenging for the position occupied by the worlds best 9 and his back up, who is favoured by the coach, that Pienaar is well prepared to NOT be picked for the Boks. This stance, coupled with the coach’s recent wish that he would like Plum to play Pienaar at 10, then it is obvious that Pienaar is not asking anyone to pander to his request but he is ding what he feels best at, and if that gets him into the Bok team then great and if its not good enough the tough…
Did anyone get PDivvy on Superrugby last night, I thought he was great, brought a bit of sanity to that show.
@Salmonoid (Comment 31) :nooop – what did he say ?
sane and divvy in one sentence
@Salmonoid (Comment 23) :
I like Plum but I reckon you are giving him too much credit here.
His first choice 9 is injured (Kockett), we are in the business end of the CC now (he needs his most experienced players) and he has a more than decent bloke playing in 10.
The selection of Ruan at 9 is actually pretty obvious given the circumstances.
@Salmonoid (Comment 31) :
i did..he’s nogals funny! 😆
And he’s arms are nogals fris, hey?? 😯
All the talk of Pienaar’s ego and having to suck it up and so on, is based on a lot of presumptions.
If anyone got shifted around to do the jack of all trades bit, and then got roundly criticised for not being the best for a job they are not suited to, of course confidence in one’s ability might tale a knock.
But people here appear to make out like Ruan is somehow holding a knife over plumtree to force him to play at 9, or that plumtree is playing ruan at 9 tom rescue him.
When Frans was shifted all over the place, the same thing happened, all of a sudden now, he’s a national hero everyone is so sad to see leave our shores.
They forget all the condemnation, just as they forget that Ruan won the first BIL test for us, not Morne, and likewise, Morne was no shining star in the third, losing test.
@Baldrick (Comment 35) :
Well I can get you the article where Ruan’s agent claimed that he set an ultimatum to the Sharks where they play him at 9, or he packs his bags…
@Baldrick (Comment 35) :
As for Frans.
He got the warped idea out of his head that he should play 10. The coach (PDV) communicated to him that he wants to use him at 15, he knuckled down, got selected and shined.
PDV communicated to Ruan that he sees him as a 10.
If Ruan wants to play elsewhere, it is his choice.
@Morné (Comment 36) :
…and the plot thickens…
I do prefer pienaar at scrumhalf and for the sharks I think he is better than cocky.
however Divvy, Plum and Pienaar seemed to agree beginning this year that Pienaar will be moulded for flyhalf – and we all heard about that it is gonna be a long process, not gonna be easy bleble blee. First bit of trouble and one plays him at 15 the other at 9 and pienaar apparently breaks down.
All I am saying just stick to your plan and not give up when an inconvenience arises.
I don’t think either of the 3 is so elligible for credits.
@Baldrick (Comment 35) : what was pdv’s reason to drop frans for the perth test baldrick? Please tell me…
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 38) : ruan’s ears are now from itching to burning
@quota (Comment 40) :
By the By…did your team not get KLAPPED by EP this past weekend? 44-8, was it? 😈
@rekinek (Comment 41) :
Sheesh Reks, this seems more like a gangsta business than rugby!! 😯 😆
@Morné (Comment 33) :
Is Kockett injured? I thought he was over that 2 weeks ago and has since played off the bench and then was not picked for last weeks game.
@Salmonoid (Comment 44) : maybe it’s tactical injury …
@Salmonoid (Comment 44) :
I heard from Sharks Lover he is still struggling with a shoulder.
@rekinek (Comment 45) :
Bwhahahaha
@Salmonoid (Comment 30) : ruan is not challenging for anything, if he was u to any challenge, he wouldn’t have needed a “confidence boosting” @ 15 for the boks!!! When jaque fourie “the best centre in the world” was on the bench for adi, did they give him runs @ 15 to boost his confidence? No!!
He was lucky to play if habana or pietersen got injured…no, ruan needs his ego stroked….
@Morné (Comment 47) : 👿
@rekinek (Comment 32) :
Yes, no sideshows, no bitterness, no grandstanding, no weird stuff and some frank mand honest talk. I think maybe for the first time he actually felt that the journalists (show hosts)and callers were not there to nail him.
i am noticing a trend – pienaar gets injured for S14 and Rockot for CC, hmmmm.
oupa never gets injured 🙂
The really scarey thing about Pienaar is that all the hype is about reputation more than proof of his legendary skill…
@quota (Comment 48) :
So your idea of boosting someones confidence is to play them out of position in a test match. Somehow that makes sense, to some people anyway.
If Pienaar only plays 9 he will be challenging for that position, and if he is good enough he will get picked there – or at flyhalf or at fullback or at……..
@Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 52) :
But where does the reputation come from, it must have originated somewhere and there must have been a reason for it.
It certainly didnt come via the Cape Town press ala Tiger Bax, Morgan Newman and many others
@Salmonoid (Comment 54) :
But where does the reputation come from
Supporters on here!!! 😈
What time’s the cricket start? 😈
@Salmonoid (Comment 54) : how about all the good games he has had at no.9, he did not go to the RWC for no good reason, he played really well,
@McLovin (Comment 56) : bout half past 2, SA time, i think
@Salmonoid (Comment 53) : your cognitive abilities must be non-existent…why would pdv need to “boost” ruan’s confidence? After messed up in the second test & injured his ankle, in his absence morne to the baton & ranaway with it, in a manner most of us didn’t anticipate…remember ruan’s face during that 2nd test @ loftus when morne was slotting those penalties…he was sooooo embarassed…
He didn’t bargain that he was going to be riding the wood behind morne, now his “confidence” is taking a knock all of a sudden, now we hear that ruan is “not enjoying his rugby” ffs, since when?
@war1 (Comment 58) : Groovy. 😎
@Morné (Comment 55) :
😈 We are an influential bunch, next we tackle global warming.
When does Ricky get a confidence boost?
@war1 (Comment 57) :
Agreed, In my way Im trying to say that his reputation was earned and not written up because he showed childhood promise.
That reputation started growing from the game when he blew the Brumbies away in Kevin Putts time.
@McLovin (Comment 60) :
Howzit Austin! 😆
@Salmonoid (Comment 61) :
I’m In!! 😈
@McLovin (Comment 62) :
Ricky needs a confidence boot.
Up his arse.
@McLovin (Comment 62) :
When he gets rid of the mechanical lift in his shirt..
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 24) : He did last season during the Tri-nations. Before he changed his mind.
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 25) : Your wish is my command. All done.
@quota (Comment 59) :
Must agree with you on my cognitive abilities (nice word, what does it mean?) because that was what I thought you meant in your #48, I tried to decipher it but obviously got the wrong meaning of what you wrote. Im truely sorry.
@McLovin (Comment 62) : when he goes to pie shop
I got to see Ruan and Morne Styen practicing their goal kicking during their time here in Australia and the difference was so obvious. Morne didn’t miss a kick, whereas Ruan doesn’t strike the ball so cleanly every time.
Morne was not a great kicker 3-4 years ago and Ruan would do well to learn off his schoolboy buddy. As good as I think Ruan can be, he needs to go away and work really hard like Morne has and the rewards will come. He may then be in a position to dictate where he plays.
@SuperGirl Ice Babe(Wingat because I CAN!) (Comment 64) : Yeah baby yeah. 🙂
I sense some negativity towards Ricky. 😆
@McLovin (Comment 73) : it’s lunch time
@Salmonoid (Comment 69) : plum is quoted as saying “it’s time ruan started enjoying his rugby again”, was he miserable the whole time he was being played @ 10?
What happened to the joy of being rated by someone like eddie jones?
The “tiger woods” analogies…The boy is flakey!
@sanjaydeva (Comment 71) :
I think that is the plan, but at scrumhalf and not at Flyhalf.
@rekinek (Comment 74) : One of my three favourite times of day.
@sanjaydeva (Comment 67) :
HA!! So I was not getting senile!! Thanks Sanjay! 😉
@sanjaydeva (Comment 68) :
😆 The power of a powerful woman!! Go Supergirl!! 😆
@McLovin (Comment 73) :
Really?? 😯 😈
@quota (Comment 75) :
Its obvious he, and his coach, feel that he has been shafted. Anyone that feels that will be unhappy. If he is flakey thats fine, the art then would be to work with it and not to compound it. Plums support for him is just what he needs right now.
@sanjaydeva (Comment 71) : but is there a kicking coach actually working with him on that ?
Before the Champions Trophy kicks off in an hour, I would just like to put my stake in the ground and state that I expect, when we win, to hear silence of from the choker labelers who despicably criticised the Proteas for getting knocked out of the meaningless World T20 earlier this year. The Proteas are going to win this comp and those of you who poured scorn on them have disqualified yourselves from celebrating with the rest of us.
@rekinek (Comment 80) :
Does he want to work on that is the question…
There are plenty of coaches around.
This thing on poor Ruan is crazy!!! How many of you criticising Ruan, work without a proper Job Description! In fact have any of you ever worked without a clear idea of what your position in the organisation is? Well that is what you are expecting Ruan to do. He gets selected to the Boks as a 9 (Under Jake) and gets used all over the place including at 15 where he was not comfortable and blamed for us losing/nearly losing cannot quite remember)to Cannught. A new Coach comes along and dismisses him from the Boks and tells him to go and specialise as a 9 if he is to make the Boks side. (this is, by the way when the agent threatened the Sharks that Ruan would move if not accommodated at 9) Ruan does this and excels again at his prefered position, even outshines the best in the world in the CC final, only to hear that he is now the prefered No. 10. He and the Sharks accommodate the Boks and while his performance was not spectacular it certainly was good. He gets injured, and then comes into the Tri-nations as 10 only to be booted ’cause of he cannot kick at goals, he sits on the bench already suffering insecurities and then told to play 15 where we all, including Ruan knew/know is not a position where he excels in! Who wouldn’t feel shafted and insecure in that position!
And by the way, whatever PDV said at the time, bringing in Ruan at 15 was not to help Ruan but to spite Frans who was moving to France. And that is my honest opinion!
@klempie (Comment 81) : Amen brother, amen. 😈
@McLovin (Comment 84) : 🙂
@klempie (Comment 81) :
I think we will choke again.
Centurion:
Rated one of the 10 best grounds in the world by Indian legend Kapil Dev, Supersport Park is a 22,000-seater that boasts a wonderful grandstand and superb open grassed embankments.
@Morné (Comment 86) : 😆
@Morné (Comment 86) : In that case, reread comment 81. You’ve just disqualified yourself as a Proteas supporter.
Can someone put up a Proteasworld thread for today’s game? 😕
@klempie (Comment 90) :
Rob’s on holidays .
try hijacking on e of the existing threads
@rekinek (Comment 91) : For which I’m very grateful. Not having him here will do the Proteas’ confidence a world of good.
@klempie (Comment 90) :
Just for that I wont open a thread!!!
Check the main page in 5 minutes
@Morné (Comment 93) : hehe
@Salmonoid (Comment 54) : I guess some local hack in Durbs, as to the Cape Press – i don’t read them because they farking idiots who belong in Durban with some of the crap they write 😯
@klempie (Comment 94) :
Thread opened – enjoy
OMG!! Biff won the toss!! 😯
@Morné (Comment 96) : Thanks boet. 😎
@Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 95) :
😈 I agree, I think a stint in Durban / Pietermaritzburg will sharpen them up and help get their integrity sorted out. Good call.
@rekinek (Comment 80) : Percy Montgomery works with all the Bok kickers. However a lot of it comes back to the individual.
@Morné (Comment 82) : i don’t know the guy but he does not struck me as lazy.
@sanjaydeva (Comment 100) : i was more thonking about sharks environment. At the boks level it should be refinement if anything. And from what you’ve written it looks more like RP should go back to basics.