I think I’ve finally managed to find something that Bok coach Peter de Villiers has in common with his predecessor, Jake White. Both coaches seem to possess a seemingly limitless, in fact, almost obsessive, loyalty to the players they’ve coached at age-group level.
White was arguably more outspoken in defence of the policy, at one stage publically questioning Schalk Brits’s Bok credentials on the basis that he had never represented a South African junior side. This latest tour squad selection shows that the current coach’s thinking is very similar and that any player following the ‘low road’ to a Bok jersey will find the going very tough indeed.
Weighed up against the backdrop of the 2009 season alone, one cannot fathom the inclusion of Bandise Maku, Heinke van der Merwe, Alistair Hargreaves or Earl Rose. Currie Cup form has been rewarded in some cases, with Dewald Potgieter, Ashley Johnson, Davon Raubenheimer, Meyer Bosman, Juan de Jongh, Riaan Viljoen and arguably even Francois Hougaard deserving their spots on current form. In most cases, though, you could argue there are other players more deserving of the spot – Liebenberg over Maku, du Preez over van der Merwe and so on, but in each case, de Villiers has gone with the player he’s coached before.
Another similarity to the White era is that it’s seemingly a lot harder to play your way into the squad than to play yourself out. Gurthrö Steenkamp, Chilliboy Rallepele, Andries Bekker and even Adi Jacobs may not be there otherwise. The fact is, though, that the test 22 pretty much picks itself anyway and the other 15 players have been taken along as an experiment.
It’s perhaps somewhat comforting for the likes of Jean Deysel, Steven Sykes and Duane Vermeulen that the selectors don’t feel the need to experiment with them on this tour as they know that they are ready to be called on for the test squad, if required. The alternative is that they’ve simply been overlooked despite playing well for the Emerging Boks not 6 months ago. Seems pretty unbelievable to me.
Now the one selection that I feel is thoroughly deserved is that of Heini Adams, since he’s showed consistently good form over 3 seasons now. I only wish that we could select more players on the basis of form over a longer period, rather than judging them on the last month of the Currie Cup.
One thing that I’ve learned about de Villiers, though, is that he’s definitely the sort of pudding that needs to be eaten, if you know what I mean. He makes some strange selections, but with the benefit of a little hindsight, most prove to be pretty sound in the final analysis. Although I’m not blown away by this current bunch, I’m prepared to see how they go before getting the knives out, quite unlike certain other scribes out there…
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Rob I actually dont get Adams’ selection.
If he is building to the future, as he claims with most selections, the selection of Adams makes the least sense of the lot.
i’ll grant you that. The Adams selection is most inconsistent with the general theme of the squad. I just feel he deserves it so much more than the flash-in-the-pan brigade
No complaints from my side with regards to the form aspect of his selection, he deserved to be selected ahead of Ricky long ago.
the whole thing is messed up, i got told precisely why i could not play craven week on the wing, and we are not aloud to talk about it here
Nicely penned article Robnotic
Just widening the selection pool…
If there are 4 players who are vying for the same position – it’s only fair to give most of them a go – especially if there isn’t much between them…
We’re going to lose some experienced players eventually – and maybe PdV doesn’t want to wait for that moment before he has back-up for the back-up.
Mmmhh- I hope that made a bit of sense…it’s a Monday morning so I guess I’ll be excused.
If ever a player deserved to be understudy to FDP it is Jano Vermaak.
He has been brilliant for over two seasons now!!
Look all coaches have favourites.
The big thing most guys are missing I think is that our 2nd stringers were tested earlier this year and failed horribly.
So from that point of view I have no problem with PDV changing one or two things when it comes to assessing our depth and building.
So far our depth or 2nd stringers have a massive question mark hanging over them given the Lions 3rd test. So play a bit with it.
Chosing the same guys who failed makes less sense than some of these bolters.
And also remember, our Emerging Boks also failed (a draw is a fail in my view).
:Although I’m not blown away by this current bunch, I’m prepared to see how they go before getting the knives out, quite unlike certain other scribes out there…”
Wise words 😉
@wpw (Comment 7) : Stem saam, to bad he’s injured, he bladdy good.
@willa (Comment 4) : willa, mate, I’ve seen where that road leads. There are plenty of other places to discuss that aspect of things, but this i not one of them. It’s a decision that was taken in the interests of protecting the site and it’s one that will stand. I really hope you can continue to live with that.
I was also told why I couldn’t play wing at Craven week… something to do with being slow and having no skills 🙂
@Charlie (Comment 9) : you check out Suparugby? 🙂
2nd team selection on tour:
1. Guthro
2. Chilli
3. heinke
4. Hargreaves
5. Bekker
6. Potgieter
7. Raubenheimer
8. Kankowski
9. Heini
10. earl
11. Ndungane
12. Bosman
13. De jongh
14. Hougaard
15. Viljoen
Just a prediction, see how it goes.
My main concern with a few of the new caps is that some of them have NO S14 experience, and if they haven’t been tested at that level then I feel they shouldn’t be making the step up to international… yet. Lots of players look good at Currie Cup but don’t crack it at S14, its a completely different level.
@molly (Comment 14) : I feel the same way
Thats why i wanted stegman in the squad, heinrich is our only out and out fetcher. Sharks would score an average of two tries extra a game if we had a fetcher like heinrich or stegman. The turnover ball will be our try starter. 😀
@robdylan (Comment 12) : When bud ?
sounds like Pottie considers himself a pure 6. Just needs to convince Ludeke to see things the same way
@JJR (Comment 13) :
A wiser move would be to gooi some experienced players with the back-up instead of throwing all of them in at once…but maybe that’s just me. 😛
@blackshark (Comment 19) : Ja hear you, but the first team arrive around three days after all the new boys and thus won’t play against sarries. This team is for the midweek games. The big guns must rest up for the tests.
I think they arrive later?
@robdylan (Comment 18) : Hey Rob, when is there any confirmation on signings for the sharks? i heard they should be finalised this week.
Is anyone looking to buy (or loan) Raubenheimer? So that he can get some S14 experience
@molly (Comment 14) :
There is a problem with that.
Although I do agree in principle you have to remember that through our daft contracting system and how Super rugby works in this country, the national coach has no control over selections of players he rates. And like a provincial coach who has his ideas on players he rates, so does the national coach but he however, gets very limited time with players to test and asses them and see how they fit in with his team, administration and culture.
Although S14 should be the main yarstick to asses players, it cannot be the only one.
PDV may rate a player for many reasons, some of which may or hopefully is very valid reasons too.
But that players union coach might not share those views…
No-one is right, no-one is wrong, but you cannot fault guys based on visibly measureable means (we see Super rugby and guys who perform in it and base opinions on that) alone as some deserved players dont get to play there, and some very undeserved ones do.
PDV has a very short time to assess which players will fit in with his team, union coaches have a lot more luxury in this regard.
My 2nd 15 of players not selected
15 Pieterson
14 Mapoe
13 Corne Uys/Geel
12 Swanepoel/Geel
11 Aplon/Mvovu
10 JL Potgieter
9 Jano or Sarel
8 Alberts
7 Deysel
6 Louw
5 Anton van Zyl
4 Steven Sykes
3 WP Nel
2 Strauss/ Liebenberg
1 Wian du Preez
This team would give the current Bok 2nd’s a real test.
@JJR (Comment 22) :
I heard the Sharks are willing to buy Brussow out of his contract with the Cheetahs…
@Pokkel (Comment 25) : Bit short on good centre’s again 🙄
@JJR (Comment 22) : waiting for Manie Reyneke to stop being an ass
@Morné (Comment 26) : Interesting that Brussow (according to match stats) didn’t create a single turnover in the Final. He did some nice running with the ball but was strangly quiet at the breakdowns.
@Pokkel (Comment 25) : add to that list
Vermeulen
Baywatch
Stegman
Blaauw
Chhetah’s no 7
@JJR (Comment 13) :
I believe Chilli will captain the Boks 2nd stringers against Leicester!! 😐
@Pokkel (Comment 25) :
Yes they would…especially the loose-trio..
@blackshark (Comment 32) : and the front row.
@wpw (Comment 31) : Oh they playin tigers first. Oh ja, was it not kockett that kept ruan on the bench for almost a whole season? 😉
well, apparently the test starting 15 has been decided and is Beast, Bis, John, Bakkies, Vic, Hein, Schalk, Spies, du Preez, Steyn, Habana, Jacobs, Fourie, Pietersen and Kirchner. So inside centre and fullback are the only real surprises.
I would imagine that the Bok XV against Leicester would look like this:
1 Gurthtro
2 Chilli (capt)
3 Heinke (shudder)
4 Hargs
5 Bekker
6 Pottie
7 Raubies
8 Johnson
9 Adams
10 Rose
11 Nokwe
12 Bosman
13 De Jongh
14 Hougaard
15 Viljoen
16 Maku
17 Jannie
18 Rossouw
19 Kanko
20 Pienaar
21 Olivier
22 Ndungane
The idea being that with the exception of Chilli/Maku, the bench will be the Test bench.
@Pokkel (Comment 27) :
That problem will be solved when the Sharks do the right thing& give Zuks some time at OC -or when Steyn returns to the Sharks…or if Waylon Murray miraculously regains his form… 😕
@robdylan (Comment 35) : Like that prediction, looks familiar 😀
@robdylan (Comment 35) : Right about odwa being on bench, forgot that earl has no chance.
@blackshark (Comment 36) : Actually Doppies la Grange hasn’t been too bad either….and I know Rob hates him 😈
Can’t wait to see sevens again, we have some sevens players that have been doing great for the fifteens.
@Pokkel (Comment 39) : He is a cart horse, but i won’t lie he has been is flippin good crash ball form.
I think some selections in the bok team really are dubious? Earl Rose??!! When the Sharks play the Lions i feel assured when i know he is playing, and im a Sharks fan, What does he see in this guy?
@robdylan (Comment 35) :
Is that you Sharks_Lover?? 😈
@robdylan (Comment 35) : I shudder when thinking of a lock pairing of Hargreaves and Bekker!! 😯 😯
@Miguel (Comment 42) : I heard somewhere that PdV is married to Earl’s aunt 🙄
@wpw (Comment 43) : That’s nasty 😈
@Pokkel (Comment 45) : I wouldnt be surprised haha! The people at Coca Cola park cant even stand that guy
@Pokkel (Comment 46) :
😉
The biggest selection issue – is steenkamp – he really has gone backwards as a prop. As to Adams, i don’t have theat much of an issue – he strikes me as a livewire and to be honest after the Boks success this season – i will back Div to pick and play who he wants – because ultimately – he takes the flak for it.
Feel sorry for a couple of Free States front row and the wing.
As to Earl selection well – Jake picked Meisiekind repeatedly when he didn’t deserve it – so each coach has his love child spot.
@wpw (Comment 48) : It’s gonna be strange to see Habana in a Stormers/WP jersey
@Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 49) : So you have no issues with the Bulls 2nd and 3rd choice hookers being there???? 😉
@Pokkel (Comment 51) : Chilliboy is the second-choice hooker and has been in the Lions and 3N squads all year. Not sure why everyone is expecting him suddenly to not be there…
@Pokkel (Comment 50) :
I tell you what. Not all WP supporters are stoked about him coming to CT.
😯
@Pokkel (Comment 51) :
Danie Rossouw is 3rd choice lock at the Bulls and he is there!!!
@Pokkel (Comment 51) : Adrian Strauss can feel a bit hard done by – but as per my original point – Its Divs call and he will carry the can if it goes pear shaped.
@wpw (Comment 54) : 😈
@Pokkel (Comment 50) : Fabian Juries also heading south.
@robdylan (Comment 52) : I know you have a soft spot for Chilli,but there is no way that he is better than Strauss or Liebenberg.
2 wrongs don’t make a right..he shouldn’t have been there isn the 1st place.
@wpw (Comment 54) :
The Bulls 1ste and 2nd choices aren’t too bad. I think Danie brings the grunt when Bakkies isn’t there and he will be well suited to the NH conditions.
@Villie (Comment 44) :
I agree..
hello all and well done to the bulletjies.
@McLovin (Comment 57) :
The WP hobbitt backline continues… 🙄
@wpw (Comment 60) : This hobbit has a serious step…not so sure about his defence though
@wpw (Comment 60) : Not sure how and were he’ll fit in though. Suppose the Erasmi has a plan.
@wpw (Comment 60) : you just need to sign Billy Boyd and you’ll eb set
@McLovin (Comment 62) :
15-Jantjes
14-Pietersen/Juries
13-TWG13 (De Jongh on bench)
12-Grant
11-TWGW (The World’s Greatest Winger)
10-De Waal/Free State laaitie
9-Mechanic/Duvenage
@wpw (Comment 64) : What about Sir Eli?
@wpw (Comment 64) : And Aplon?
@robdylan (Comment 63) :
Who the hell is that?? 🙄
@wpw (Comment 67) : philistine!
@wpw (Comment 64) : why would you pick Jantjes?
The WP could be very serious contenders in the S14 next year…lots of talent in the backs and finally a decent tight 5
@wpw (Comment 64) :
Ah, the dude from Lord of the Rings. 😆 😉
@robdylan (Comment 68) :
Well, for one he will be well rested!!!
And he can’t be as shite as he was when he last played. I’m sure he can regain his 2008 S14 form. 🙄
@Pokkel (Comment 69) : a decent tight five? Which one?
@robdylan (Comment 72) : The one that outscrummed the Sharks….. 🙄
@Pokkel (Comment 73) : yes, but no depth. An injury to van Zyl or Blaauw and they’re stuffed
Springbok XV – 15 Earl Rose, 14 Odwa Ndungane, 13 Juan de Jongh, 2 Wynand Olivier, 11 Jongi Nokwe, 10 Ruan Pienaar, 9 Heini Adams, 8 Ashley Johnson, 7 Dewald Potgieter, 6 Heinrich Brüssow, 5 Andries Bekker, 4 Danie Rossouw, 3 Jannie du Plessis, 2 Chiliboy Ralepelle (c), 1 Gurthro Steenkamp.
Subs: Reserves: 16 Bandise Maku, 17 Heinke van der Merwe, 18 Alistair Hargreaves, 19 Davon Raubenheimer, 20 Francois Hougaard, 21 Meyer Bosman, 22 Riaan Viljoen.
@robdylan (Comment 74) :
(with our SB frontrow, we were stuffed).. 😈
@McLovin (Comment 75) : For Friday’s match against Leicester.
@McLovin (Comment 77) : http://www.sharksworld.co.za/2009/11/02/pienaar-back-at-flyhalf/ 🙂
@robdylan (Comment 78) : Sharp. 😎
@McLovin (Comment 79) : I put quite a lot of effort into this thing sometimes 🙂
@robdylan (Comment 72) :
The one that beat you guys twice this season!!
And we would have whipped you in the final!!! 😈
@wpw (Comment 81) : as is gebrande hout. Neither team was good enough to get to the final and there’s no 3rd-place playoff!
@robdylan (Comment 82) :
but we all know who tht wld have been anyway… 😆
@GI Ice (Bulletproof) (Comment 83) : yup. Province by a country mile.
@robdylan (Comment 84) :
PFFFTT!!!! 😉
“you gotta have faith a faith a faith, Baby!”