Plum’s doing the right thing

Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks, Super 14 on 10 Mar 2010 at 10:49
Tagged with : , , ,

I’ve given John Plumtree a lot of stick here recently, so I think it’s only fair that I give him credit when he does something right.

Fact is, petulance and ill-discipline are a cancer in the Sharks team right now and no matter how much we blame referees and other factors, this aspect alone is the single biggest reason we are not getting the results. I believe we would have beaten the Chiefs had it not been for Bismarck du Plessis’s yellow card, just as we would certainly have beaten the Waratahs had the other du Plessis and Andy Goode not both been carded.

A string of kickable penalties conceded in our own half brought the Cheetahs back into a game that we again should have won. It’s simply not good enough and it can’t go on.

Plummo – I agree with you 100% on this one. Throw the book at the offender, whoever it happens to be. Define what the acceptable standard is and stick to it rigidly. The guys can’t say they haven’t been warned. The Sharks players may well be frustrated for a whole bunch of different reasons but you need to show them quite clearly that allowing those emotions to spill over on the field of play will simply no longer be tolerated.

It’s time for everyone to start acting like grownups and take responsibility for their actions.


  • Agreed. Im pretty sure Jannie’s foot fault sent Plum mental, the other ones were game related, offside high tackles etc but the trip was rediculous.

  • Comment 1, posted at 10.03.10 10:53:34 by billy Reply
  • I agree that the ill-discipline should be sorted out, I do not however agree that either Jannie’s or Goode’s yellow card was the cause for our loss.
    In fact these events were the start of a string of events (as fortunate they may have been), that caused a turnaround for the Sharks. I’m not condoning Jannie’s actions, it was unacceptable and if I were the coach I would have taken action against these players immediately, I’m just saying…I don’t think that not getting those yellow cards would have had any major impact on this particular game.

    The Chiefs game was a different story though, because that yellow card came at such a bad time.

  • Comment 2, posted at 10.03.10 11:01:08 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 2) : I can definitely see your point on this one… however, these things tend to have effects in ways that we can’t predict. Would the Tahs first and second tries have been scored if the Sharks hadn’t worn themselves out playing 13 against 15 for ten minutes? Hard to say.

    I say first and second tries, because the one in the middle never actually was scored 🙂

  • Comment 3, posted at 10.03.10 11:29:28 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 3) : You’re right, the game would have been completely different had those two yellow cards not been given…it’s a butterfly effect type of thing, but it’s not a definite and it did seem that the Sharks got some of their “spark” back during that time.

  • Comment 4, posted at 10.03.10 11:35:30 by Letgo Reply
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  • Jannie should have been suspended long ago…he has been a loose cannon for a while now.
    How many yellows has he picked up in the last 2 comps (S14 2009;CC & current S14)?

  • Comment 5, posted at 10.03.10 11:37:13 by Me2 aka Mama Shark Reply

    Me2 aka Mama Shark
  • @Me2 aka Mama Shark (Comment 5) : it’s an interesting enough question that I’ll go find you the answer 🙂

  • Comment 6, posted at 10.03.10 11:47:19 by robdylan Reply
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  • All I want to know is why is it all of a sudden this big thing about discipline and drawing the line.

    Besides the fact that one would naturally expect a professional, supposedly intelligent, rugby player to have self-discipline, I would have thought there always would have been team standards to uphold.

    Suddenly enforcing said standards just because the team is on a run of defeats is a bit naff. Not that it’s unnecessary, just should have been the mantra from the get-go.

    If Plum was really serious about discipline he should have sent on the Beast when Dr Doolitlle’s 10 minutes ran out.

  • Comment 7, posted at 10.03.10 11:59:09 by rhineshark Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 6) :

    5 yellow cards in 2009, and one red card.

  • Comment 8, posted at 10.03.10 12:14:22 by Morné Reply
  • The offenders:

    Keegan Daniel
    Bismarck du Plessis
    Rory Kockett
    Deon Carstens


    Rory Kockett

  • Comment 9, posted at 10.03.10 12:16:44 by Morné Reply
  • @rhineshark (Comment 7) : I agree that every players “should” have enough grey matter not to overstep. But stupid things like tripping a player is unessacary. I would not be surprised if this is directed at Dr. Dup. But not being able to single out a single player the coach needs to warn the entire team.

    Atleast it is a move in the right direction.

  • Comment 10, posted at 10.03.10 12:17:15 by Farlington Reply

  • jannie pap snoek is one angry doctor!

  • Comment 11, posted at 10.03.10 12:49:59 by Megatron Reply

  • @Morné (Comment 9) : interesting… so no cards at all for the Doc in 09… I assume that was just Super 14, though?

  • Comment 12, posted at 10.03.10 13:09:42 by robdylan Reply
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  • agree with plum all the way – we need to get more disciplined full stop .we can`t get away with playing like the bulls 😆

  • Comment 13, posted at 10.03.10 13:27:22 by bergshark Reply

  • @robdylan (Comment 12) : Hey Rob, how about getting your polls up and running again? It be interesting to see what the readers think about certain issues

  • Comment 14, posted at 10.03.10 13:28:27 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 14) : good plan, Stan

  • Comment 15, posted at 10.03.10 13:36:00 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 12) : Me also surprised 😯

  • Comment 16, posted at 10.03.10 13:51:56 by Me2 aka Mama Shark Reply

    Me2 aka Mama Shark
  • @robdylan (Comment 15) :

    Stan?? 😯

    Nah man Rob, I had some bad visuals there… :mrgreen:

  • Comment 17, posted at 10.03.10 14:14:08 by wpw Reply
  • Can`t the Shark themselves cite Jannie? Surely that`s one way to get him out of the team . . .

  • Comment 18, posted at 10.03.10 15:17:34 by Original Pierre Reply
    Original Pierre
  • @Farlington (Comment 10) : Precisely.

    There`s a huge difference between being yellow carded because you happen to be the offender when your team’s on a warning and really moronic, cynical actions.

  • Comment 19, posted at 10.03.10 15:28:51 by rhineshark Reply
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  • @Original Pierre (Comment 18) : I like your way of thinking 😈

  • Comment 20, posted at 10.03.10 15:29:43 by rhineshark Reply
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  • hiyas Rob

  • Comment 21, posted at 10.03.10 15:47:40 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • Rob a question?if ya dont mind

    i wanted to ask if you or KSA would mind us using his article on rugby-talk re the refereeing?

    just thought its a very good article

  • Comment 22, posted at 10.03.10 15:50:16 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • Since our season is now basically stuffed, he should discipline every stupid infringment with some kind of heavy penalty, so by the start of the next season they are well drilled and dont make these mistakes.

  • Comment 23, posted at 10.03.10 15:52:01 by Treehugger Reply

  • hello ninny hugssssssssssssssssss 😉

  • Comment 24, posted at 10.03.10 15:53:04 by sharks_lover Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • boompie as much as i agree i also dont as some of the yellow cards were not justified

    yes JDP was stupid , and he was guilty

  • Comment 25, posted at 10.03.10 15:54:41 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • we all crying the ref cheated us ?? then we should acknowledge that some players did not deserve the yellows they got , some did yes

  • Comment 26, posted at 10.03.10 15:57:02 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • Sharkieeeeeeeeeeeeeeee howzat doll mhawmhaw we do get around dont we 😆

  • Comment 27, posted at 10.03.10 15:57:41 by Treehugger Reply

  • I dont mean every yellow card or infringment, this is after all rugby, but those stupid ones, and then also the ones when a player keeps makeing the same mistake over and over.

  • Comment 28, posted at 10.03.10 15:59:45 by Treehugger Reply

  • 😛 yup
    hows you hun??

  • Comment 29, posted at 10.03.10 16:09:04 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • agreed ninny doll 😉 😆

  • Comment 30, posted at 10.03.10 16:14:33 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • I read on here sometime today that someone else thinks Kanko would make a great center, was very chuffed, it was something i asked in August i think and was not well recieved.

  • Comment 31, posted at 10.03.10 16:14:34 by Treehugger Reply

  • lol Sharkie how is anyone ever going to take me seriously if you call me ninny doll, i might as well be sitting in a sportsbar, club or restaurant with people i know for that.

  • Comment 32, posted at 10.03.10 16:19:08 by Treehugger Reply

  • @Treehugger (Comment 31) : Nooooooooo, his extra weight and improved work rate has allowed him so finally replicate his form that earned his initial springbok call up. Lets not move ANOTHER player to an unfamiliar position. Let us rather just make a few calls…
    ring ring
    “Hi Bradley, Rudolf here, your ticket to Durban has been booked”

  • Comment 33, posted at 10.03.10 16:28:43 by Gaff Reply

  • @Gaff (Comment 33) : brad barritt has unfortunately been lost to the england national team, we now need to back swannie, lest we be lamenting the loss of another talented no. 12

  • Comment 34, posted at 10.03.10 16:35:15 by war1 Reply
  • @Gaff (Comment 33) : He has bulked up abit, but still think he plays like a center and we do need somebody effective there, but i suppose we all have our quirks 😆

  • Comment 35, posted at 10.03.10 16:42:36 by Treehugger Reply

  • Before i go Brad Barrit was a huge lose on a par with Francie for the Sharks.

  • Comment 36, posted at 10.03.10 16:44:13 by Treehugger Reply

  • Brad hasn’t been capped for England yet (as far as I know), but in reality, it is unlikely that’s he coming back. I’m 100% behind Swanepoel, and hope that this is a big year for him. Hopefully Murry can get back to his best, cause we need somebody to straighten and create the space for JP!!

  • Comment 37, posted at 10.03.10 16:52:06 by Gaff Reply

  • @Treehugger (Comment 36) :

    is that Frans’ new name since he started ‘putting from the rough’ 😈

  • Comment 38, posted at 10.03.10 16:57:52 by wpw Reply
  • @Gaff (Comment 37) : Barritt wont be coming back. He has already played for Englands Saxons. (Like our E. Boks) Also spoke to him when he was on holiday here last June. He is very happy in England. Another one slipped through our hands here in SA.

  • Comment 39, posted at 10.03.10 16:59:51 by Puma Reply

  • @Gaff (Comment 37) : Brad played for the Emerging Boks in Romania, this should have tied him to the Boks. But SARU forgot to change the name of the ‘official A side’ on the IRB records from “South Africa A” to “Emerging Boks”, I presume they have changed it now but I’m not 100% certain of that. Through this loophole it meant Brad was not tied to South African rugby.

    He moved to the Saffacens and almost immediately was capped by the Saxons, the official England A side. RFU seems to have a policy of capping eligible foreigners asap. It is doubtful he will get a full England cap, they did it to block any other nation. Juandre Kruger was very close to this, but thankfully has returned to the Bulls – an excellent player.

    Playing – test rugby, 7s, or national A team rugby. Ties you to that nation.

    I’m unsure if non-test matches for the national team tie you to that nation. I don’t think they do though.

    Qualification for selection to a test side/7s team/A side, is country of birth/3 years residence/country of parents or grandparents birth. Nationality etc is not a factor in IRB laws as they vary from nation to nation.

    This will become more of an issue, as players drift to Europe. And a key reason why we need an A team that regularly plays other sides close to their level (the thing in Romania was fairly pointless, won it one year with no Currie Cup or Super 14 players!).
    More to lock players into playing for the Boks preventing other nations benefiting if nothing else.

    Shame about Barritt, with Peter picking overseas players for the Wales test in June and only roughly 2 local players from each Super 14 side. It would of been highly likely he would get a Bok cap.

    I think alot of players are hassled into making choices without fully realising what they are doing. Barritt was capped by the Poms only a few months after he got off the plane and nothing since. A bit underhanded.

  • Comment 40, posted at 10.03.10 17:10:22 by Os Reply

  • Just get rid of Jannie, it’s not only the yellow cards that he gives away, one must also consider his penalty count and handling errors…

    Hello Rob, how’s about some stats on the players, who’s given away the most penalties and had the most handling errors in the S14 thus far? Would help our ‘anti-Jannie’ cause greatly, might even shed some light were none has been shone thus far.

  • Comment 41, posted at 10.03.10 17:13:03 by FireTheLooser Reply

  • I agree it was good Plumtree said this also. He still needs wins though, would love to support him just because he’s a good bloke, but it don’t work that way harsh as it is.

  • Comment 42, posted at 10.03.10 17:17:35 by Os Reply

  • @Os (Comment 40) : Brad always wanted to play for the Boks. He never got selected. Probably feels he has a better chance to play for England so left mostly because of that.

    I wish him well. Was not treated right here. Just look at some of our cricket players lost to England too. Terrible to lose such talent really.

    Hope we have not lost Frans Steyn. I know he can not play for another country but if the Bok Coach does not select him again. He is lost to SA. What a shame that would be. Sharks made a huge, huge mistake by not trying to keep him. Should have found a sponsor to make up the money he would be earning in France.

  • Comment 43, posted at 10.03.10 17:24:43 by Puma Reply

  • I’m kinda over the whole ‘we shouldn’t have let Barrit go’ story, if he showed a bit of patience he would surely have been picked for the Boks sooner or later, if I’m not mistaken he left at the young age of 23.

    I think and believe it was a financially motivated move, same as Frans Steyn. I don’t think it was motivated by not having a run for the Boks, why then was he so eager to play a game for the Saxons?

    Centres tend to be a dime a dozen in SA, we should worry about FH’s, why are we (SA) so thin at FH? Do we just not have enough good FH’s here, or are they not being developed, and thus leave for greener pastures? It’s an issue that needs serious attention.

    Might we be guilty of converting all our FH’s to centres?

  • Comment 44, posted at 10.03.10 17:34:29 by FireTheLooser Reply

  • @sharks_lover (Comment 22) : which one? If it the one with the pictures, that’s actually rugby guru’s and you should ask him directly.

  • Comment 45, posted at 10.03.10 17:36:35 by robdylan Reply
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  • a bit off topic but it is a fascinating exercise if one starts putting a Bok 22 together for the Wales test, bearing in mind PDV assertion that he will not use more that 10 SA based players ….and no one from the semi or finals of super 14. Its fun to speculate….lets assume Bulls and stormers players are semi finalists and excluded…..i would go with a team of 22 like this….

    1 beast
    2 bissy
    3 BJ Botha
    4 Juandre Kruger
    5 R Skeate
    6 L Watson
    7 Wickus Van Heerden
    8 Joe Van Niekerk
    9 Jano Vermaak
    10 b james
    11 nokwe
    12 f steyn
    13 j de villiers
    14 mapoe
    15 e rose
    16 cj vd linde
    17 a strauss
    18 s sykes
    19 s sowerby
    20 b russell
    21 m classens
    22 m joubert…

    any thoughts??

    Always fun to speculate

  • Comment 46, posted at 10.03.10 17:40:38 by grant10 Reply

  • @grant10 (Comment 46) : 2. Smit :mrgreen: 8. Kanko 15. Jannie Du Plessis (anyone but Earl, please Cant10)

  • Comment 47, posted at 10.03.10 17:47:25 by FireTheLooser Reply

  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 47) : LOL

    JDP at 15….thats funny!!

    Ja….Smit at 2….if he gets fit!!! At the moment he should not be in sharks team!

    Kanko doing well….but PDV wants to give Joe a test….

  • Comment 48, posted at 10.03.10 17:51:51 by grant10 Reply

  • i am a huge Barritt fan….Percy Montgomery rated him very highly as well….reckoned he would be a very good bok. When he left Waylon was never quite the same. Pity!

  • Comment 49, posted at 10.03.10 17:53:37 by grant10 Reply

  • @Puma (Comment 43) : Frans – No one could compete with the salary he was on. Few in Europe could either, he’s in the top ten most paid in France. He will carry on being selected, Peter is going to select alot of Europe based Boks for the June Wales test. If it works then it will happen again in November. SARU have allowed overseas selection since 2003-ish, Kiwis and Aussies (unless you are Dan Carter) refuse to do it as they say it will increase player drain. But it’s also true, if a player is going to be selected by the national team, he is less appealing to a club, as they wont ‘own’ them.

    Barritt had the misfortune of being a fairly similar player to Wynand Olivier and not as good as Jean or Frans. If he had waited he may have got a chance, but he had waited already and got nothing. There are a few ahead in the queue in England just as back home. Alot of Foreign players get capped through the Saxons early doors to tie them to England, so he’s not going to walk into an England jersey. He also has the misfortune of playing in what was viewed as a car crash Saxons side in the 2009 Churchill Cup. Alot of that squad has black marks against their name, unfairly or otherwise. He still just has the 2 Saxons and 2 E-Boks caps to his name.
    Not sure how I feel about it tbh, wont hold it against him. Don’t mind at all when players go overseas to play club rugby, different altogether when they go to play test rugby for another nation. Not entirely convinced having others ahead in the queue and not being selected is a valid reason.

  • Comment 50, posted at 10.03.10 17:57:18 by Os Reply

  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 44) : I’m not entirely sure he realised the full implications of playing for the Saxons. You see a lot of confusion often on the subject, even players themselves (and our idiot politicians), talking about “have a UK/SA passport” or whatever, all irrelevant to the eligibility rules as defined by the IRB.

    Loath to quote Keo, but you can see from this article:
    That was from just after he left in August 2008. If you just read his quotes and ignore the rest, it paints an odd picture. Someone that wanted to play for the Boks, was not so concerned with England – he turned down a place in the Pom U19 squad and Bath Uni place (similar to what Stevens got) in 2004. Only to tie himself to life for life to England a year later?

    Oh well, someone made him a load of promises they had little intention of meeting, that we didn’t make and that’s it. 🙁

  • Comment 51, posted at 10.03.10 18:12:24 by Os Reply

  • @grant10 (Comment 49) : AJ Venter did as well.

  • Comment 52, posted at 10.03.10 18:15:07 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Os (Comment 51) : Seems he got duped into playing for the saxons.

    But from what he’s quoted as saying, seems he might well come back and play some more rugby here, but I guess he might be a bit less interested, seeing as he can now not be considered for the Boks.

    He should have weighed his options and future more carefully and waited a few more years before going there….I think money did have some baring on his decision though.

  • Comment 53, posted at 10.03.10 18:51:40 by FireTheLooser Reply

  • Hi Rob , the article below by KSA is the one i was referring to

    “You know how to whistle, don’t you, Steve? You just put your lips together and blow.”
    8 Mar 10 19:23 by KSA Shark © | In the news, Super 14 | 29 Comments
    Tags: Bryce Lawrence, Mark Lawrence, Paul Marks, Penalty Try, referee, Steve Walsh, Super 14

  • Comment 54, posted at 10.03.10 19:19:32 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 53) : no – he didn’t. He understood the implications very clearly and made a decision.

    I know Brad. He’s no fool

  • Comment 55, posted at 10.03.10 19:23:01 by robdylan Reply
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  • @sharks_lover (Comment 54) : ja- if you read the opening para, KSA didn’t write it but got it (with permission) from Rugby Guru’s site.

    If you want to send him an email asking to do the same, I’ll gladly pass it on.

  • Comment 56, posted at 10.03.10 19:24:31 by robdylan Reply
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  • thanks rob would appreciate it

    , just feel its a very good article

  • Comment 57, posted at 10.03.10 19:26:58 by sharks_lover Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 55) : So he then has only himself to blame…..oh well, there’s more where he came from (I know it sounds harsh, but in SA we have an embarrassment of riches at centre and SH)

    We need FH’s – URGENT!!!

  • Comment 58, posted at 10.03.10 19:40:51 by FireTheLooser Reply

  • @sharks_lover (Comment 57) : ok – so I’ll wait for your email and pass it on to him, ok?

  • Comment 59, posted at 10.03.10 19:41:33 by robdylan Reply
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  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 58) : not sure why he would feel he needs to blame anyone for anything. He chose to play for England and I say good on him for doing that. The moment Johnson stops being an idiot, Brad will get his first cap – he’s the form 12 in the Guinness Premiership.

    Just makes it easier for me to support England against anyone other than SA 🙂

  • Comment 60, posted at 10.03.10 19:43:00 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 55) : BTW, is there anyway to get a list of the players that’s given away the most penalties thus far this season….I’d like to see how bad Jannie really is.

  • Comment 61, posted at 10.03.10 19:44:21 by FireTheLooser Reply

  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 61) : I don’t have access to those stats, unfortunately. Maybe Letgo does? She seems to be a bit of a stats freak.

    Or maybe check out

  • Comment 62, posted at 10.03.10 19:45:58 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 60) : Support England…..ummmm, almost like kissing your sister and enjoying it. Can’t do it.

    Can’t understand why he’d give up any chance of playing for the Boks and try out for England…..he’s still young, PDV played him in the U21 wc, I’m almost certain he wasn’t too far from getting the call for international duty.

  • Comment 63, posted at 10.03.10 19:49:34 by FireTheLooser Reply

  • @robdylan (Comment 62) : Thanks, I’ll try that….else I’ll wait for Letgo and pester her with my stat craving.

  • Comment 64, posted at 10.03.10 19:54:55 by FireTheLooser Reply

  • @robdylan (Comment 60) : Don’t you think a Barritt / Hape combination could be the worst partnership international rugby has seen since Geragehty / Erinle 😆

  • Comment 65, posted at 10.03.10 20:25:04 by Hertford Highlander Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 60) : They see him as a big unit and solid defender that runs straight and does a bit of organising. If you ask England fans, he’s seen as a bit average and largely the type of player that has led to the decline of English back play and ask what he offers that Tindall and Noon don’t (yes I know they play 13). It’s bebatable if he’s the best in the GP, but it’s also a pointless debate when the first choice Pomgolian 12 is playing for Brive. Even Erinle was called up at 12 last year from Biarritz.

    Players like Flutey/Tait/Flood are getting chances at centre, as they want players with a stronger running and passing game. Other than those, he’s also got a fit Jordan Turner-Hall to contend with, who looks to have the inside track on him in some respects.
    Even a player like Shane Geraghty, made the England 32 man elite squad for the 2009 6N and played for England last year, along with Erinle. As whilst not that good, they have strengths in the areas they are looking for. Dan Hipkiss and Hape made the elite squad this year and look to have the 13 jersey sewn up with Tait.

    England look to have settled on 12. Flutey/Flood/a 2nd flyhalf 13. Tait/Hipkiss/Hape.

    He’ll be doing well to make the Pom world cup squad, you suspect it’ll come down to injuries. He may have a chance after the world cup, but will be 26 by then. Others will have the jump on him as experience picks, whilst there will be a crop of younger players coming through and those like Turner-Hall that are probably level with him at the moment.

    He looks about as likely to be called up as he did in South Africa. Maybe slightly less so. I can see him filling in for multiple injuries, playing in a weakened side with no current squad players, or getting a chance at starting years from now. But that’s about the same situation as it was back home.

  • Comment 66, posted at 11.03.10 08:10:45 by Os Reply


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