With Bok winger JP Pietersen expected to return to the Sharks squad this weekend (and Odwa Ndungane a week later) , the Sharks are suddenly looking spoiled for choice when it comes to selecting the back three.
Bringing Pietersen back into the fold is likely to prompt some sort of a reshuffle and while it’s tempting to say that one should simply drop Louis Ludik, the reality is that the former Lion is sorely in need of game time and having fought so hard to get him, it would perhaps be a little foolish to drop him after a single performance. To my way of thinking, Pat Lambie is the man who needs to move out of the back three to make way for Pietersen – not because he’s not a great player and a competent fullback, but rather because he possibly lacks the extra yard of pace necessary to really excel in the position.
We all saw on Saturday how the quicker Griquas backs scored seemingly at will off turnover ball, thanks in no small part to the Sharks’ inability to match them for pace. Lambie and inside centre Riaan Swanepoel were the main culprits, but it’s the former who must take ultimate responsibility as he is meant to be “the last line of defence”.
I’ve been saying for some time that I believe Lambie is a natural flyhalf and as a gifted footballer will eventually become a great in that position. Perhaps it’s time to take a leaf out of the New Zealand coaching manual and start his eventual progression to that spot by selecting him at inside centre. With a seasoned campaigner at flyhalf (Steve Meyer) and the experience of captain Stefan Terblanche outside him, Lambie may just prove to be a revelation in this position. Riaan Swanepoel continues to struggle to find the necessary versatility in his game, while Dries Strauss is also far too predictable in his approach, so for the Sharks, while a gamble, this may just pay off.
It also will allow Ludik to move into his preferred position at the back, from where he will have no option but to get fully involved in the play.
What do you think, fans? Could Pat Lambie be an option at 12? Should he stay at 15? Or should we throw him straight in at flyhalf and see what happens? My take is that, unless the forwards play at least twice as well as they did against Griquas, it’s not going to make a bugger of difference anyway!
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I love the idea, but will it be done?
Been thinkin it for a while now
@willa (Comment 1) : I’d give this one about a 90% chance of happening… this weekend already 🙂
@2 loving it!!!!
I reckon he’s got the talent to play 10, 12 or 15. He still needs to mature a bit though and specialize. Not sure we want the same thing to happen to him that happened to Ruan.
I’d bleed him in at 10, behind Meyer for now, and most likely behind JL Potgieter when he arrives next year.
@robdylan (Comment 2) Do you know something we dont???
Anywhoo… I think they should leave him in there. Sign a contract with him for about 10 years or so. Invest a shite load of money in him. And let him become the new and improved Rolls Royce of Sharks Rugby.
Moving him out of his comfort zone, although he’ll claim that he’ll “play where the team needs him” – ala Frans Steyn, will not be a good idea. (Rob WHERE DOES LAMBIE WANT TO PLAY?) If they start shifting and moving him around, he wont stick around…..
@SharksRTB (Comment 5) : usually 🙂
@SharksRTB (Comment 7) : I believe lambie’s ultimate goal is to play flyhalf.
Lambie should get as much game time now as he can, but in the right position, just don’t leave him out on the wing. Play him at 12!!
@Richard Ferguson (Comment 10) : surely not even the Sharks backline coaches are stupid enough to take a player who’s too slow for fullback and play him on the wing?
(I’m saying this in naive hope!)
@robdylan (Comment 11) : You never know with them, but my point was to not be stupid with Lambie. They are sitting on quite a talent, lets hope they don’t snuff it.
They can really play him ahead of any centre we have in the squad because they are all pretty ordinary (bar Adi).
I’d like to see Ludik at fullback, that where the boy the play. JPP should give us that little extra, I hope he is fully fit!
Rob I think Lambie is way overrated. We saw what the aussies also did to him @ the junior WC.
I recon Frans Steyn is miles ahead of this bloke.I also doubt he will be good enough to keep JLP out the team next year @ flyhalf.
Rob – stop advocating the coaches should play players out of position. IT hasn’t worked for you in the past few years and resulted in the only to talented rugby players in your backline going somewhere else – Pienaar and Styen.
Seriously. Its got to stop.
@Uli (Comment 13) : Lambie is a great talent but has a lot still to learn, just like Frans had to go through the motions.
Here’s hoping Lambie will come through! I’m sure he will though!
And the little worry with Lambie’s lack of pace is that, as he gets older, he will probably get slower. He has almost the same build as HRE, who was even more of a carthorse than Halstead.
In the 90’s such a player could get away with it (as HRE did, because he had such a massive boot) but nowadays a slow poke has nowhere to hide.
And substituting a slow Swannie with a slow Lambie is much of a muchness.
@Richard Ferguson (Comment 15) :
Yes but the reality is that he is freaking slow, and that means that Ludik is a way better bet on FB, and I doubt Lambie has the talent to be a world class fly half anyways, Also I used to compare him to Juba but see Juba was fastest bloke on a rugby field that’s what made him so great. As he could make time and space that no one else could.
@rhineshark (Comment 16) :
I agree with you on that.
I think we should forget about investing much more time into this guy. He can rather go do modelling.
Lambie just needs speed training barrett was a cart horse when he first moved from hooker then he got speed training ,i also don,t know if ludik is an out an out fullback ,maybe they should try ludik at outside centre ,most fullbacks fit at outside centre you run the same lines pretty much and need the same timing ,don,t know about Lambie at 12 he glides when he runs and doesn,t have a burst of speed or quick feet to play outside of steve meyer or J.L potigitier Lambie would do well at 12 with a running flyhalf
WOW everyones turning on this guy after one match ,everyone wants plumtree to put yougsters in the team but then everyone is impatient when they trip give him time his young , fullback is a hard position you learn on the go ,Andre Joubert wasn,t fast he just had great timing and anticipation ,he always came in the line at the right time or chose the right option but he def couldn,t go around anyone Lambie just needs quicker leg speed
Good analysis Rob. My only concern is that with Steve at 10, Lambie at 12 and Stefan at 13, we would be a bit light weight in the center with opposition forwards looking to punch a hole through them.
Also, i think JP will play fullback as opposed to right wing. He is more devastating in that position.
i would put lambie at center and then move lugik to fullback,dummondt fly half and make botha captain.
@zvision10 (Comment 19) : Dude you know nothing! Juba was the fastest oke in the Sharks team when he played.
ya I don,t know about that , actually I,m confident he was about the 3rd 0r 4th fastest player in the backline behind James Small ,Cabous vd weustezien and Joos Joubert and maybe even slower than Jermey Thompson theres a video of the 96 currie cup final vs the lions on youtube see for yourseld
Pete, who’s Botha?
I like it, I’ve been thinking he’s a bit too small at the moment for 12 though. Hopefully we can keep Pienaar next year because…
9.Pienaar/Kockott
10.Meyer/Potgieter
11.Mvovo
12.Lambie
13.Jacobs/Mapoe
14.Pietersen
15.Ludik
…is giving me the tinglies 😉
No guys, just put JP in Mvovo`s place. We know he`ll be more secure under the high ball.
JP is a springbok, Mvovo can`t expect to retain his position above JP and Ludick looked more solid out there on saturday than Mvovo.
@Rob – loving the idea of Lambie at 12 – he may be a little small but is an awesome tackler and could be an excellent 12!
The person I feel for most is Mvovo – chances are that he will be dropped to make way for Odwa… Something I dont agree with at all!
@MerckZ (Comment 25) : Yip, the Sharks are going to be a complete team in 2011!
@zvision10 (Comment 23) : Yea well did you see Juba scored two tries that game?
Did you see how he cutt through the line?
@Original Pierre (Comment 26) : Trust in the youth*. Mvovo will have a great Currie Cup.
*Disclaimer: Unless such a youth happens to be part of the ANC or Communists Leagues…
MerckZ, leave the politics out of it, please.
Wasn,t saying he was slow just not sure he was the quickest in that backline .Lambies not that slow his just got a lazy running style that can be fixed getting quicker off the mark can be fixed ,whether it will be fixed is whole other question
@MerckZ (Comment 29) : Oh I`ll trust the youth when they earn my trust. If Mvovo can`t keep the Kwasse out he won`t be much help against the bulls.
What`s the use of having pace and scoring tries if you let in more than you score? Might as well go back to Stephan Brink then . . .
But whoever they go with this weekend . .. you guys think they`ll be good enough not to embarrass us AT HOME? 😯
@zvision10 (Comment 31) :
Well we already have JP Peterson running that way I doubt we need another who runs like that in our backline. We need strike runners.
If we could get Lambie to run like Cullen used to, now that would be awesome man!
@robdylan (Comment 30) : Jammer! Ngiyaxolisa! It was more of an anti-politics statement, than a political one. Mea culpa.
@Original Pierre (Comment 32) : He’s usually a lot more solid than that, all he needs is time and exposure. He’ll easily be better than Nokwe when given enough experience.
I have to admit, whilst he isn’t the quickest person on the field, I think everyone’s being a little unfair on Lambie and his pace. Bjorn Basson is a quick player. He’s one of PDivvy’s “left-field” selections that I didn’t think was so left-field. The fact that he hasn’t been snapped up by the Bulls or Stormers surprises me. He’s committed, brave, fast, skillful and reliable. With a bit more Habana-style upperbody bulk he’ll be the complete winger. As a Bok fan, I’d feel safer with him on the wing than JdV. You really can’t blame Lambie for being outpaced by Basson, a lot of international Fullbacks would have been too…
@MerckZ (Comment 35) : fair enough… this thread was not meant to turn into a Lambie-slamming exercise.
@robdylan (Comment 36) : lol… I call it an Expression Of Interest 🙂
GO SHARKS !!!
@Uli (Comment 28) :
Jouba was very, very quick.
@zvision10 (Comment 19) :
Agree that people are jumping the gun.
I remember a time when people were ADAMANT that JPP was slow – turns out he is the quickest Bok behind Habana – time will tell about Lambie.
I do think he is destined for 12 then 10 though.
Los vir skapie op 15, nog nie lus vir ‘n Fransie Steyn drama nie… 👿
Well I think it is a positive move both for the Sharks and the player.
I made mention of the fact that the Sharks lacked strike runners which to me was one of the primary reasons their backline has looked so ordinary in recent times.
Strike runners are normally confined to your outside backs (13 and out) because of the nature of the game. Part and parcel of being a strike runner is pace, especially over the first 10 to 20 yards in hitting gaps and breaking tackles.
As far as I can tell Lambie is not a speed merchant.
What he does have though and what makes him rather special is his ability to beat opposition players with his hands and feet which goes hand in hand with how he reads and sums up the game and as plays unfold in front of him – of course this is not bad for a 15 either but this is crucial in the make up of a 12 and a 10.
I think also the move is necessitated through the inability of Swannie to make the number 12 jersey his own.
It is difficult to say exactly what the problem is but having seen him in action for a number of times now I get the feeling he does not trust his instincts and over-analyse plays whilst in possession and misses the opportunities quite often to put people outside him into space because of this hesitation and seemingly natural conservative approach he has in rather making contact knowing you have a far better chance of retaining possession.
This affects not only your outside backs in general not getting the ball or getting the ball with space or to work with in space but also affects the natural running lines a more conservative (bash-up) inside back makes which inadvertently affects running lines of everyone around you (straight, predictable, easy to defend and easy to reset defenses on ensuing rucks).
The best 12’s in the world manipulate defensive lines and patterns with their hands (distribution) and feet (balance and closing in and down on spaces drawing in multiple defenders) with the added vision of using this advantage created to allow more space for the strike runners (outside backs).
10 and 12 are by large reliant on natural instincts of players and how they read games and adapt having to make split second decisions.
If you do not have the natural instinct for this you will be average, like Swannie unfortunately.
Lambie has this ability and added to this, he has an educated boot which adds even more variety to the 12 channel and in support of the 10.
Good move I say.
@Morné (Comment 41) :
Agree.
Lambie is a decisive player, while his passing, kicking and running game show real tactical nous. I think he would do well outside JLP at 12, or even complement Rory by demanding more control of the game – which I feel no other Sharks 10 has done since Butch (this has resulted in Rory making way too many decisions at 9).
Blaming Lambie for opponents scoring tries when the 1st line of defence cant do their job, is not cool 🙁
JPP will most likely play from the bench anyway so Mvovo should stay on wing and be the 1st choice untill JPP can get his hunger back. From Top try scorer in 2007 (s14) to almost non existant the next year.
I can’t believe so many people are down on Mvovo. He was the ONLY Sharks backline player to actually try to make anything happen against Griquas. You guys claim to back a policy of youth, yet want to drop young players every time they make a mistake.
And yet all the time using Frans Steyn as some sort of mythical yardstick of what a 19-year-old should be able to do, regardless of the fact that Steyn was fundamentally flawed in ways that Lambie (and Mvovo) could never be…and yet somehow all of the mistakes, fuck ups and frankly SHOCKING decisions he made and took are conveniently forgotten.
My Sharks team for the weekend:
1 Pat
2 Burden
3 Wiehahn
4 Sykes
5 Hargs
6 Downey
7 Rhodes
8 Daniel
9 McCleod
10 Meyer
11 Mvovo
12 Lambie
13 Stef (c)
14 Pietersen
15 Ludik
16 Coops
17 van Staden
18 Skeate
19 Botes
20 Kockott
21 Dumond
22 Swanepoel
@robdylan (Comment 44) :
And all because he has nice hair!!
😆
@robdylan (Comment 44) :
The beauty of subjective opinions!
@Morné (Comment 47) : I get so tired of this “Frans Steyn the Messiah” bullshit.
The kid’s play could never live up to his ego and yet the blind masses lapped him up like he was the best thing ever to happen to Sharks rugby. If we were to find one person to SINGLE-HANDEDLY blame for the 2007 S14 final defeat (as much as it’s not fair to do such a thing) I’m afraid Frans stands head and shoulders above everyone else.
@robdylan (Comment 48) :
Having a current discussion on Voldy actually where we are trying to figure out what it means where people are branded as ‘enforcers’ or having the ‘X-factor’ and therefore justifies selection…
Perceptions are a powerfull thing buddy.
Whenever you want to talk someone up or into a team simply attach one of those tags to a player because it cannot be refuted in your justification of that player quite simply because it cannot be measured…
It is the way of things!
@robdylan (Comment 48) : 😯 I can blame Smit for his pathetic dropgoal attempt and Ruan’s poor tacktical kicking and last but not least, Steve Walsh’s blindness 😈
Steyn did miss THAT kick, but everyone misses sooner and later.
@Jarson (Comment 50) : Steyn missed the conversion that wuld have made the game safe and also missed the final touch kick… two HUGE mistakes in a matter of minutes that turned the game.
@robdylan (Comment 45) : this team is scarily close to the one that will play 🙂
@Jarson (Comment 50) :
Dude, that was a fairly easy kick.
I bet he walked forward and offered to take it even though he is not the first choice kicker.
And I bet he wanted to be the ‘glory boy’ at that very moment.
Why do you think he always tries 60m drop goals?? 🙄
@wpw (Comment 53) : you are spot on.
Frans insisted on taking that kick because his ego was more important than the good of the team. and that, to me, sums up hs entire attitude while he was at the Sharks.
@robdylan (Comment 48) : Rob come now relax. Don’t you think the whole team is to blame for that final, I mean Habana did almost single handily run through the whole Sharks team to score that try, nobody even tried to tackle the guy, or why don’t you blame Hougard for being so good and slotting the final kick to make us loose? Come now, get over that freaking game now. It is after all a team sport.
That said, second best is never nice, but couches should identify players and their short comings as soon as possible so that they can work on those problems and become better players.
I think the reason we all compare young talent to Frans is that Frans is a freak dude. He stood up against the biggest players from the start of his career. Frans never wanted second best that’s the difference, and the kiwi’s are freaking scared when this man runs onto the field. Now I am not saying Lambie can’t be the best but if he has a major flaw it is his speed and he should try and get that sorted out as soon as possible otherwise the kiwis are going to break this youngster.
@robdylan (Comment 51) : All I’m saying, is that everyone screws up and nobody is perfect but everyone can have their moments of brilliance. Its in our nature to find someone or something to blame when things dont go our way.
Next week someone else will get the blamed or praised following the outcome of the games. If we have beaten the Griquas, no-one would have mentioned Mvovo’s knock-on or Lambie’s pace I’m sure of it.
My 10cents of the week 😛
@robdylan (Comment 51) : Yes I agree , but do your self a favour, go an watch every game of the 2007 super rugby season the sharks played and look and see how much he did to get us into the final in the first place, please go and watch all the games of that season and see what would have happened if he never played. He made a huge contribution to get us there in the first place you can not take that way from him,
Also , other teams feared it when ever he played.
@wpw (Comment 53) : Because he can 😛
You guys are missunderstanding me, I’m not making Frans the saviour, I’m trying to defend Mvovo, Lambie, Daniel and all the other guys who gets stick for the TEAM’S loss.
@Uli (Comment 55) :
If Frans or Butch or even Ruan had slotted the conversion then the Bulls would have had to score twice to win the game.
With the little time remaining on the clock that would probably not have happened.
So Habana’s try would not have won them the game!!
@Jarson (Comment 58) :
Bru, I’m just commenting on Frans’ attitude thats all.
I mean the fact that he refused to play for the Boks recently says it all doesn’t it??
And telling the coach where he prefers to play.
Compare his attitude to that of JDV who is a senior Bok but he is prepared to play anywhere for the good of the team.
@robdylan (Comment 54) : My Last point on Frans, why dont you say anything about the kicks and drop goals he slotted while playing for the boks? How many of those did he slot and made us beat the all blacks and aussies, and for that matter the WC final…
@wpw (Comment 60) : No the difference is that he wants to specialise a position and if not chosen there would rather not play. I see nothing wrong with that.
Has playing out of position helped him or Ruan or Brett at all ? no!
@wpw (Comment 60) : And who gave him that attitude? It was us, the supporters 🙂
@wpw (Comment 59) : Ok so what you are saying is that the problem was the kicker and not the Sharks team who cant tackle?
@Jarson (Comment 63) :
Oh please!!
I remember reading an interview done with one of his school coaches at Grey College who said that Frans once opted to take a quick penalty and try to score a try to win the game instead of taking the 3 points which would have tied the game.
Lets just say that most of his teammates and the parents at the game were NOT impressed.
He IS a glory boy!! 🙄
@wpw (Comment 59) : The fact of the matter is that the whole team should have played until the final whistle and they didn’t and they paid the price for it.
@robdylan (Comment 45) : I like it, fingers crossed for that!
@wpw (Comment 65) : Drawing a game is like kissing your sister is it not? Well then I think you would have also rather gone for the win!
@wpw (Comment 65) : Secretly you are admiring the chap and wish he has signed with WP. Come on admit it 😉
@wpw (Comment 60) : The main reason for Frans Steyn not being availeable fot the Boks, has got to do do with his financial demands, if he really wants to play for the Boks he would accept the offer at hand 😉
@Jarson (Comment 69) :
Nope!! 😆
Not at all…
@Jarson (Comment 69) :lol Ja I think so too… haha
Frans is no angel, but he isnt the devil either, so let’s just let him be and focus on the guys playing for us now 😀
@MerckZ (Comment 67) : substitute Botes for Downey and you could put money on it being the team that starts.
We’ll get stuffed up-front again this week, so the nice backline changes won’t mean a thing, I fear.
@Jarson (Comment 73) : Agreed, Lambie is a Michaelhouse boy, he is honourable… 😀 – and I think that he is more of a team player and will be relishing the opportunity to play anywhere the team needs him… Plum has been saying he wants to play guys out of position, he has been saying that he has some experiments in mind… So he is A) Preparing the Fans and B) actually planning it – and when it comes to shuffling positions no other play qualifies for reshuffling… I think he will be OK at 12, not 10 just yet, long term approach, plus Monty and Steve need to vindicate us and the coaches – plus JLP next year – inside centre for now, will be really interesting when Meyer Bosman comes to town, some real options suddenly… Great depth developing, and as I say, in the current mix of things it is silly to change unions in the hope of becoming a starter – this is the era of team players again… a bit idealistic, but people need to take a leaf from Danie Rossouw’s book, an anti-hero – who becomes a hero, hope he recovers from his calf strain…
You guys think Skeate would be able to play an enforcer role? We need a big lock to demand some respect out there, like Mark Andrews . . .
@Original Pierre (Comment 76) : Yeah Skeate is more of a calming, cool, intelligent etc… We need Gerhard Mostert and his iron shoulder back for an enforcer role, Sykes is worrying me, he is not playing like he can, is it form, slight niggle, I am not sure…
@MerckZ (Comment 25) : Meyer Bosman?
Ya i think he,d do well at 12 but is it his best position ,mayb having a play maker at 12 will spark the backline but who goes outside him u need a fast outside center if he plays 12 and u can,t have adi jacobs cause you just asking for teams to attack there but there is a reason Ludik played wing at the lions more than he played fullback ,so maybe Lambie is the long term solution at fullback getting on his back cause he couldn,t cover basson is not ryt most fullbacks wouldn,t cross cover basson
Wow Rob needs to give you a warning for the disgusting language your using on this site, putting michaelhouse and honourable in the same sentence should be punishable by capital punishment tsk tsk tsk
🙄 🙄
i’d rather train lambie to run faster than put him at inside centre.
@Worcestershire Sauce (Comment 14) : amen !!
@rekinek (Go Klose!) (Comment 81) ‘teach’ him to run fast? I’d like to see that
@rekinek (Go Klose!) (Comment 81) ‘teach’ lambie how to run fast? I’d like to see that 😀
Play him at 12 – and get him used to being closer to the action. A lot of the great flyhalves did their apprenticeships at 12.
its really not that hard to teach lambie to be faster he just needs quicker leg speed
@Megatron (Comment 83) :
@Megatron (Comment 84) :
We got you the first time.
@zvision10 (Comment 86) :
You can coach a player to improve his reaction-time and thus initial acceleration, but not much you can do about his actual speed.
An average guy can benefit greatly as he would probably not have trained in that area much, but a seasoned age-level SA representative has certainly put in time on improving this. Most rugby players run their best times at 18-19, before they bulk up.
Barritt never really sped up much, and he trained with an olympic trainer.
it,s more about improving his accelaration and his 40m times ,over a long distance his not going to be faster ,barrett improved his acceleration , before that he,d find a gap go through and be caught after a metre watch his first craven week its funny to watch .its hard to do and myt mess up his playing rythem but it can be done .he doesn,t need bulk up that much so if he concentrates on improving his explosiveness while his bulking up he,ll be good . he honestly doesn,t need much more speed just a few metres
Sheesh! Aren’t you guys just a bunch of daisies and sunrays!? Shocking really! Now I am glad I never got to ask John in my “interview” if he reads SW!!?? Phew! They would all be running to the first shrink for a prescription of Prozac!
Its called being a fan and having the right to moan and bitch about everything! That’s what we do here!
@90 don’t jump on your high horse, Sir Ferguson!!! I bite! 😈
@Señora Hielo (Comment 91) : oh and on the bitching and moaning…maybe I should say you “gals” are doing a great job!
It was all in good fun, I actually kinda agree with you.. Read with lotsa sarcasm in mind..
@Richard Ferguson (Comment 93) : sir Ferguson..all taken in good fun…get to know me! I own a witch hat and the 1000cc broom!
@ Uli Bully… I am mostly with you on this!
PS. Juba IS very quick…in buying girls drinks! 😈
Good to know, will keep in mind for future reference..
Let the good times roll!!
@Richard Ferguson (Comment 96) : u bet ur royal ass(et)! Hehehe G’nigt! Signing out..over and out…kggggggggggg
I think we should give Lambie a break, he had a great s14 and that says alot. I think our problem lies at 10,12,13. Steve is settling in, swannie is a dinosaur and stefan is not a 13. If we improve here, lambie will also excel.
sorry chaps i would put Jacques Botes as captain 🙂 he has been around a while now and very seldom has a poor game. put lambie at center and leave oom steff out.the boks as well have a problem at center .i would put de jong in place of Wynand Olivier .he is not playing well
@Richard Ferguson (Comment 90) : Rob should include as a fixture a statement of the Fans Rights 😆
and morning fellow moaners, what a gloomy Thursday
@Megatron (Comment 84) : me too, especially the outcome on the field 😆
it is not impossible (guess depends what’s chasing).
“What do you think, fans? Could Pat Lambie be an option at 12? Should he stay at 15? ”
Speaking of fans… who was Rob referring to? (ie Fans of who?). I think he means Fans of Mr Dylan!