There is another twist in the Lionel Mapoe saga where he might leave South Africa and rugby union altogether.
Mapoe has reportedly been offered a contract to play rugby league in Australia and he will be stupid not to take that opportunity if his ongoing contract saga is not resolved soon.
There have also been reports that Springbok coach Peter de Villiers wants to get all the parties involved to sort this out as he has long been an admirer of Mapoe’s talents and wants to consider the winger for future Bok squads.
More on this as it develops . . .
Tweet
Rugby League…. Bwhahahahaha, cannot see him leaving for Oz. Maybe for a contract at the Rebels/Force, not for League…
I read about this too. You can not force someone to be loyal. Best thing would be for the Sharks to pay a transfer fee and for the Cheetahs to accept. Or… Bye bye Mapoe.
I am not convinced there is an ‘ongoing contract saga’ that needs to be resolved. The arbitration ruling was that he has a valid contract with freestate, and while I agree, you cannot force someone to be loyal, he still needs to honour the contract.
@Greg (Comment 3) : I agree about the ‘honour the contract’ part, but pay me what I’m worth and I will do my part. Perhaps loyalty can be bought 😈
This is getting ridiculous. What can PdV do?
@Jarson (Comment 4) : I agree with a fair remuneration for a fair performance, but the investment in the player by the union also needs to be considered. Who took him on, and paid him, when he was an unknown? Who paid his salary when he was injured and couldn’t play. Players need to understand what a union has done for them, before they become prima donnas, and start demanding from that union.
Bloody poachers are screwing up Mapoe’s career.
@Greg (Comment 6) : If I get a better offer from another company in my line of work, I will not stay unless my current employer offers me the same or at least very close to the same salary or benefits. Why should rugby be any different.
@Loosehead (Comment 7) : I beg to differ. The idiots who didn’t pick Mapoe to join the SA squad when he was on form last year should be blamed.
@Jarson (Comment 8) : What will they do if I dont honour my contract? Fire me? That’s just me and my opinion.
Who gets paid the most in any rugby team?the star player(s) or the coach? Coaches cn only work with the talent they have in a team.. So maybe they thought mapoe how to catch a ball in union a,bt his speed,skill and evasive moves were always gona come thru..no-matter where !
@Loosehead (Comment 7) : cheapskates who dont pay him enough ruining his career rather 😈
@Jarson (Comment 10) : Absolutely, you can leave for a better offer, unless of course you have made a written committment, in the form of a valid contract. In that case, you, or your prospective new employers, would need to buy you out of that contract, and compensate the previous employers for their investment. What can they do if you don’t honour that contract? Nope, they won’t fire you, they can however sue you.
Lol meant taught mapoe how to catch a ball! ..or perhaps they though they taught him.. ?
@Greg (Comment 3) :
So you don’t find anything wrong with a player as talented as Mapoe (U21 Bok and SA Sevens Player) on the tip of Bok selection being paid R13K a month??
Do you think the Ebersohn twins would have signed new contracts if they were offered something similar??
@robdylan: mapoe spent time in the sevens squad,rite? Before he made his cheetahs senior debut,rite? Hmm ..
@bergshark (Comment 14) : I love your picture…one of the hardest and toughest rugby players ever. 😀
@Jarson (Comment 10) :
I agree 100% bru!!
@Greg (Comment 13) : Probably sue me yes 😆 But by then loyalty and trust is so badly broken, it will never be restored. Look, at the end of the day it’s Mapoe who is responsible for his actions and not us and whatever he decides to do it’s his business and he’s the one who has to live with the consequences.
So maybe there is a lot of rugby talent in the fs? Bt talent is firstly a God given gift,no-one cn lay claim to that talent
@Pokkel (Comment 17) : Who is the englishman in the picture kakking himself about Ackies??
@Pokkel: thanx,yeah he was awesome in his’old age’ at the sharks
@Loosehead (Comment 7) : aaahhh it’s such a joy having you around. 😉 😆
I wonder if Mapoe’s contract stipulates how GOOD he has to play for the Freestate. If you want to force me to play for you, I’ll just play like crap and then I’ll deserve the crap you pay me. 💡
@Pokkel:lee mears me-thinks
@wpw (Comment 15) : Never said that at all. What I did say is that he has a contract, determined by an arbitrator to be valid.
Lets say you leave school, and want to study engineering. A company offers you a bursary, and you sign a contract saying that in return you will work for them, one year per year of study. You pass the course with flying colours, and start working at a remuneration level in keeping with a new graduate. Two years into your working career, you have made a huge name for yourself as an up and coming engineer, and a competitor offers you twice your salary. What are you going to do? Put in your 30 days notice and walk out? Don’t think so!
Why didnt sharx management grab jaque fourie when he approached them? There were sum pretty close games in the s14 this year-which we lost..and he scored a couple of great solo tries..nw sharks management go after mapoe..bout a year 2 late me-thnks
@Jarson (Comment 19) : Not quite true, sharks management were quite keen to back his bid when they thought they could get him for free. Now that they might have to pay a transfer fee, they don’t seem so keen.
@Greg (Comment 26) :
Not that same thing imho.
My main gripe is that the Cheetahs promised to increase his salary but they have not done so yet.
Are you telling me YOU would be happy earning 13K a month as opposed to earning 80K somewhere else??
Thats just ridiculous!! 🙄
Perhaps we should question the state of mind he was in ,did he understand the contract correctly,was he offered a fair contract in the first place ?
@bergshark (Comment 27) :
We don’t know if that is true do we??
Was Jaque quoted as saying he wanted to join the Sharks or is it one of those ‘open secrets’ that one often reads in a Gavin Rich article?? 😈
Did he have any real guidance (professional assistance) when he signed that contract?
@Greg (Comment 28) : Mapoe doesn’t want to play for the Cheetahs, that’s his choice. Why should the Sharks pay a transfer fee? And who said they are not willing to? It’s not about the unions, It’s about what the player want for himself and that’s his choice.
@wpw:brian v zyl said during the alberts/ludik saga that they believe those 2 to have the same contracts as fourie..because they had time to study fourie’s contract when he approached them with a view of playing for the sharks.. Also ,fourie,alberts,ludik have same agent
@ Greg,
With all due respect, you are talking from a vested interest point of view.
Fact is that generally in SA everyone is free to pursue a good salary/ wage. When you are locked into a contract, you may have to pay to leave, but you are not locked in.
Your example of a bursary is also mistaken. My MBA is paid for by my company, and in return for this, as well as 7 weeks of study leave a year, etc, I must stay for 2 years after I finish. This is a typical agreement internationally.
So I work hard for them now, and intend staying for 2 years. But if they don’t offer me what the market will, then I will leave, and pay them back the bursary amount. This is something they cater for in the agreement THEY drafted.
And its why 60% of MBA-graduates change jobs after qualifying: there is no such thing as forced employment in SA.
FS are free to either match the Shark’s offer or demand a transfer fee: they have no right to condemn him to play for them.
Rather ask themselves why he is so desperate to leave in the first place.
@wpw (Comment 29) : It’s not exactly the same, but the principle remains. No, of course the more I earned, the happier I would be. Yes, cheetahs offered to renegotiate, but mapoe is in durban apparently, not in bloem, how can they negotiate?
@wpw: did mapoe make his currie cup senior debut AFTER he played for the sevens team?
How much will this transfer fee amount to? Will sharks have to buy out remaining months on the mapoe contract? And then surely nt at cheetahs ‘new negotiated ‘ salary.
@Greg (Comment 36) : Video call…
@Greg (Comment 36) : Telephones, cellphones, email, fax or even snailmail
@Big Fish (Comment 35) : I was talking in general, as an example. Your argument contains two interesting points though. ‘you may have to pay to leave’ and ‘and pay them back the bursary amount’. Had you been a rugby player instead, apparently you have a third choice, and that is to get some sharp agent to find a loop hole in your contract. I have no problem whatsoever with any player, employee, whatever, moving on for better pay, prospects etc. If one of my staff comes to me with a letter of resignation, showing an offer we cannot match, I will send them on their way, with my best wishes. Also, if I were to be made a better offer, and my current employer matched that, I would still leave, and have done so in the past, because my argument has been that if you feel I am worth that much, why have you not been paying me that much? One cannot, however, have your cake, and eat it too. Sign a contract so that you are guaranteed an income, the union has to pay you irrespective of your form or fitness status, but once you have better prospects, you want to up and leave. Doesn’t work that way in my book.
@Jarson (Comment 40) : @Charlie (Comment 39) : Yeah, of course there are options, but he should not be in durban, he should be at his place of employment, negotiating.
Regardless of what happens. The facts are simple, if Mapoe is to play for the Sharks, we will have to pay the Cheetahs in full for his services. That, or we go shopping somewhere else. With JLP and Bosman on the way to DBN, I feel that Mapoe would have been used as cover on the wing (JPP, Mvovo, Mapoe, Odwa).
We cant always “poach” players, sometimes we have to use the front door and negotiate a transfer.
Do we really need him?? Nice to have, but not at an inflated price. Rather let the scouts earn their keep…
@bergshark (Comment 37) : As far as I remember yes, he came from the Sevens game before CC
Greg,
Mapoe would not decide on his own that his contract is not binding: that’s legal advice. I’m also sure that the Sharks wouldn’t have minded paying 12 months of R13000 for him. But as we know, they didn’t approach him or take the matter to arbitration – he did.
I am all in favour of Mapoe or The Sharks paying FS, but the main thing for me is that FS are also guilty here in simply offering Mapoe peanuts and expecting him to have a coke and a smile.
Pay the man better or just ask for a pay-out!
@Mole (Comment 43) : Yep, see my comment 28
@Mole:thought the cheetahs develop players for sa rugby… ? So he had to first go make a name for himself on the sevens circuit? Develop his skills .. ?
@Big Fish (Comment 45) : No, he wouldn’t have. That would have been the agent’s advice, and we know they don’t have a code of conduct.
It is also possible, though, that he approached the sharks, they were interested, and advised him to take it to arbitration.
Nobody here is smelling of roses. There are, however, guidelines laid out by SARU on this. If only everyone(and I am not pointing fingers, because all unions have been guilty at some stage), would adhere to these guidelines, instead of looking for shortcuts, then there wouldn’t be this kind of debacle!
@Mole: if mapoe wants to play wing i’d drop mvovo !! Yes,yes, i know.. And if he wants to play outside centre,then adi better pull up his socks !! I rate mapoe ,but i somehow for some reason prefer him on the wing ..maybe coz thats where i saw him play some awesome rugby last year..at outside centre though,he is always in the line to be used as a strike runner
@bergshark (Comment 47) : As far as I can see he represented the Cheetahs in just about all the age groups, but went to the sevens team (cheetahs scouts sleeping?) before starting in CC.
If the Cheetahs develop the talent, then they should be wise enough to pay them what they are worth in order to retains their services… simple as that…
@Greg (Comment 46) : He would be an asset, but not at a ridiculous price… If he/cheetahs want millions, id rather persue a ridiculous target – how about Rene Ranger in Black and White?? 😉
@bergshark (Comment 49) : Blasphemy! Drop Mvovo?? 😯 haha, yeah Plum is going to have a huge headache soon… so many options to comtemplate..
My backline – Lambie, Mvovo, Bosman, JLP, JPP, Ludik
@Mole: rene ranger lol ..ah if only
@Mole (Comment 50) : Rene Ranger in Black and White! I like it!
If Mapoe leave SA it would be Free STate`s fault. If they allowed him to go to Durban he would`ve been happy to stay.
Somoeone offer me a choice between Oz and Bloem I`ll be packing my bags as well!
@Mole (Comment 50) :
…you mean someone decent ! 😆
@bergshark (Comment 52) : @Mole (Comment 50) : Rene Ranger is a walking yellow! Great player yes, but ill diciplined.
@Jarson (Comment 55) :
Back off ! 😎
Any news on rory kockott heading south?hope he stays at the sharks.. Also hope cobus reinack gets a run in the starter jumper for u21 sharks. Bt back to mapoe: who does pdivvy wana chat to?mapoe and cheetahs?mapoe and cheetahs and sharks?
@Jarson (Comment 55) : 😳 a walking yellow card 😳
@Hertford Highlander (Comment 54) : IMO he is extremely under-rated.. cant believe he isn’t part of the AB’s.. soon I guess..
@Original Pierre (Comment 53) : Wouldn’t even blink, “where do I sign, and when can I leave?”
@Mole: who ur sh in the backline? Heard that strauelr said he doesnt want pienaar to leave and that nthng has been signed yet re: pienaar going to ulster. Any news on this?
@Mole (Comment 59) :
He is in SA now as part of the 26 man AB party.
He is definitely in the mix !
Has a nice job at the moment holding tackle bags at Soccer City. 😎
@Mole:i dont even wana try and figure out who is going to play where for the sharks hahaha
@Hertford Highlander (Comment 61) : I wish I could get free holidays like that 😎
Im excited bout paul jordaan (cheetahs cravenweek,sa schools inside centre) coming to dbn- looks like a really talented attacker!
@bergshark (Comment 60) : McLeod without a doubt… If Pienaar/Kockott do go I recommend Stevens from EP as backup – excellent in the varsity cup.
Comment 64 : oops!sharks poaching again…
@Jarson (Comment 63) :
Not bad is it….. plus he gets a free ticket to the game and a good seat ! 😆
@Mole: pienaar at sh … Okay,okay stop hitting me!! .. And kockott on the bench ,hey .. Guess i should start running now,hey? 🙂 i like charl’s play a lot ..im just thnking of what kockott has proven himself capable of doing( on-form,that is)
@Mole:eish! Bt then again: charl has been playing well.. Headache this one .. All really depends on if pienaar stays or nt imo ..if ruan stays,we mite just find one of either rory or charl packing..and i dnt want that ,because i thnk ruan will eventually head overseas after rwc 2011 ..maybe those cronje twins go hehehe
Whats wrong with Sharks big guys 👿 we want Mapoe so buy his release and there we hv Mapoe all for our Sharks 😆
Sharks must buy Mapoe out of his contract from the Cheetahs. From what I read Mapoe was earning around R10 000 per month at the Cheetahs then they upped it to R13 000 a month that was the new offer 😕 Read that Sharks have offered him just over a Million a year. So compare R13 000 a month to about a R100 000 a month. No wonder he does not want to go back to the Cheetahs, that is almost like slave labour 🙁
Sharks wake up and buy Mapoe out of that contract as soon as possible.
Trasfer fees should be brought into rugby just like it is in football.
@robdylan: where in the world is jean stemmet?? All i knw is that he signed a 2 yr deal with the sharks..could u perhaps line up another interview with him,please?
@bergshark (Comment 68) : Id prefer to have 3 top quality 9’s at the Sharks (depth/injury/form/bok call-ups). What matters to me is that they pass the ball 😉 🙂
Been thinking about replacements – Mapoe is not an option – for us. Realistically, it is going to have to be a player of colour, at TBO, I cant think of anyone really… Basson?
@bergshark (Comment 57) : Have no idea about Rory but hope he stays at the Sharks too. Just reading the blogs it seems he may be heading to WP and Sharks getting one of theirs, Hoffman.
@Hertford Highlander (Comment 67) : Awesome! Where do I sign up? 😈
@Puma (Comment 71) : so our Sharks hv the loot so why arn’t they buying him we are going to loose him like we always loose our best players to abroad 👿
@chaz (Comment 76) : He has a contract with the Cheetahs (albeit for peanuts). It isn’t as simple as just throwing money at the Cheetahs.
@Mole: basson cnt tackle imo .. As with 3 sh ,yeah u rite (hope they see it that way,tho )
@lostfish (Comment 77) : i’m sure the cheetahs will grab at some extra money but then on the other end they want to keep Mapoe and he doesn’t want to stay so give him a contract after his one expires with the Cheetahs 😕 ❓
@Puma (Comment 71) : There lies the problem. Is that one party needs to be willing to buy and the other party needs to be willing to sell. Cheetahs aren’t willing to sell…
@Puma: hope we cn get hoffman and keep kockott
@Mole: whats the sharks salaries bill gona be like nxt season?
Basson doesn’t add that much. We have quick wingers, and he is small and not particularly positionally adept.
To be honest, I was a bit surprised he was handed a Bok cap.
Ranger has not proved to be better than Mvovo or Mapoe. Good player though.
@bergshark (Comment 81) : See the WP thread for info…
@lostfish (Comment 77) : It may well be that simple, why not just try?
@Greg (Comment 85) : True, but apparently the Cheetahs don’t want to.
@lostfish (Comment 86) : well then we hv to make them do it money money in a Sharks game
Hahahaha usually I feel sorry for free state because they lose so many players and always say players must honor there contracts but this is professional sport on no matter what any of us think this is how business goes ,if you want to retain talent pay the talent what he wants or reach an agreement with him cause if he was underperforming theyed fire him
I jsut want to know how can FS not have cash? I mean they won the currie cup 3 times in the past 6 years or somehting, surely they must have stocked up on cash then and able to keep their players.
So here is the question.
Will Mapoe be lost to SA rugby for a while due to the Cheetahs being stubborn cheapskates or due to the Sharks poaching players?
@KSA Shark © (Comment 90) : the former
Who cares…he’s not that good anyway!!!