The Lions have signed two of the Sharks’ younger players in Pat Cilliers and Michael Rhodes, to add to their recent purchases, and are building an impressive squad ahead of next year’s Super 15 tournament.
Both players hail from Michaelhouse, and have done superbly for the Sharks at age group level, and will relish the opportunity of playing Super Rugby over the prospect of playing Vodacom Cup rugby next year for the Sharks XV.
Dick Muir was the coach at the Sharks when he plucked young Cilliers from nowhere, and will meet again in his capacity as the director of rugby at the Lions. Rhodes has showed with limited game time in the Currie Cup that he is a talented player, and both are excellent signings for a growing team of youngsters which include Elton Jantjies, Jaco Taute and Bandise Maku.
The Lions have been raiding at the Sharks after already attempting to sign John Smit, JP Pietersen and Ryan Kankowski, all of which have already re-signed with the Sharks. We have to wonder who will they next approach.
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These are good signings by the Lions…
Pat Cilliers?Robs going to cry
Jeez, they are two pretty good players. This can hurt us in the future, depending on injuries etc.
Sad to see some home grown talent leaving our shores… But I guess this will do wonders for these guys careers.
They need game time and they will get it at the Lions next year. Great buys by Dick/Mitch I reckon. Pat has slipped behind Eugene in the pecking order and with Herbst covering for Jannie at 3 (with Eugene able to slot in there too) and Eugene covering for Beast at 1, he had to look at other options I guess..
With Deysel back from injury next year, Rhodes’s game time was always going to be limited.
Yeah.. The Lions seem to like the Sharks players..
Both great players, But good luck to them..
Tricky Dickie is using his influence it seems.
Good buys – both are talented young players. I can understand the desire to leave though – we have great loosies and props at the moment.
Best of luck to both of them!
As for the Lions, hope you guys stop whining about poaching now. 🙄
@Richard Ferguson (Comment 5) : I think the opposite could also be true?
Good buys by Lions, Especially Pat, I really rate him, and, managed correctly, could well become Springbok captain!
I think he will turn out to be a big loss for you guys.
Rhodes, while a good move for him and Lions, is not such a loss for you, there is a fair amount of cover there.
I’m sad to see Pat go, but the writing has been on the wall for 2-3 seasons. With too many top players ahead of him and seriously talented youngsters like Chadwick pushing from below, something had to give.
It’s far better for him to play Super 15 than spend another season in the Vodacom Cup.
@Big Fish (Comment 6) : Poaching? This is a legitimate out of contract transfer. There was no illegal approach, no attempt to find loopholes in contracts, and the players will remain with the sharks squad until the end of their current contracts, and then only move to the best city in the country 😀
@Greg (Comment 9) :
Thanks for correcting me.
When are they moving to Johannesburg then?
@Greg (Comment 9) : 😈
@Big Fish (Comment 10) : I would imagine there sharks contract was till 30/10, which is fairly standard, and will move up during early november.
And it wasn’t really a correction per se, it was more a friendly disupute over the use of the term ‘poaching’ 😀
@wpw (Comment 11) : JdJ is next
@Greg (Comment 13) :
If you can pull that one off, I will actually be scared of facing the Lions next year.. lol
@Richard Ferguson (Comment 14) : Be afraid, be VERY afraid 😆
@Greg (Comment 12) :
You might wanna read my comment again slowly this time. 😉
@Greg (Comment 13) :
Luckily he is contracted to WP. 😎
Now had you been the Sharks, then I’d be VERY worried!!
😉
Pat deserves better than the Sharks will ever realise. Good luck big guys.
@wpw (Comment 17) :
we could always offer him a handsome transfer fee ?? 😈
@Greg (Comment 7) : i think rhodes is the real loss here and not so much pat ..make no mistake,if pat can somehow regain his ball-carrying abilities (ie,sidestepping prop with some serious acceleration 😯 ),he will be a great signing .. that was which set him apart from the rest for me the first time i saw him play..was unfortunate that he injured himself in a cc game vs the lions when he was in awesome form 🙁 🙁
@Big Fish (Comment 16) : I can’t read slowly, because you type so fast 😀
@wpw (Comment 17) : @Zibbie (Comment 19) : No, we will rather find a contract loophole, much cheaper 😆 😆
giving redelinhuys and chadwick senior contracts (with van staden ,herbst ,beast,jannie also there),must have been an indicator that someone like pat was on his way out.. sad ,but there only so many spots on the roster that money can fill 🙁
I wish them both luck. I’ts unfortunate for the Sharks but they willprobably get more gametime with the Lions in their respective positions
@bergshark (Comment 23) : and possibly John Smit
It is always sad to lose talented guys but we have so much depth in those areas they would have ended up playing Vodacom Cup or rising the bench in the cup.
@lostfish (Comment 26) : nice cup
@Greg (Comment 22) : greg, you the same guy that gave me a lecture on how arogant sharks supporters are, that we can just claim to sign players, with no regards to the other provinces or their contracts… 🙄 dont throw stones when you live in a glass house my friend…
and by the way, according to Sport24, the sharks RELEASED the pair from their contracts… so much for the sharks making a whoohaa about you guys approaching (and poaching) our players. and so much for your “ligitimate out of contract transfer”. legitimate it is, but after the sharks agreed to release them…
@bergshark (Comment 23) : exactly. Can’t contract everyone. It’s simple economics.
@Greg (Comment 22) :
Why are you all of a ‘suddenly’ behaving like a Sharks supporter 😈
@Greg (Comment 22) : i guess you guys have got a pretty young and talented squad going. who will be your senior players? Wikus, Baywatch, Vermaak, Doppies and van der merwe. add to that Cilliers who i also rate as a leader, and Maku, then its looking good.
@robdylan (Comment 29) : know of a russian oligarch who wants to get involved in rugby ? or perhaps a bored saudi prince ? or the owners of an american baseball or football franchise ?
@wpw (Comment 30) : 😆
lol. this is brilliant. the lions will have more natal boys in their team than the sharks. whitely (glenwood), cilliers and rhodes (michaelhouse) and Waylon (westville). Am I missing anyone.
Sharks have Pat Lambie
@VanWilder (Comment 28) :
Calm down boeta!!
I am sure Greg was just being sarcastic!! 😉
@wpw (Comment 35) :
Shut your pie hole porky pig! 😈
@Big Fish (Comment 6) : i wonder if plum rather than dick is helping his mate out. and the players at the same time.
@VanWilder (Comment 28) : exactly ! the sharks released the pair .. it shows how the sharks care about their players ..dont just discard them as surplus to requirements or take the attitude of “oh welll,there`s no money in the kitty,so sorry guys,but bye-bye”.. no,they actually help find these guys rugby clubs (employment) ,and that is very commendable ..
john plumtree helped another former sharks lock (also at the lions now),johan snyman ,to go play rugby in nz to get some gametime
@wpw (Comment 35) : i am calm… 🙂 just a little swipe, thats all. 😉 😈
@try time (Comment 34) : craig burden is maritzburg college ..and still at the sharks
The thing I like is that they are Youngsters and not has beens, John “Pincushion” Mitchel will mould them into great players, watch out,WPW and Claytie. I will soon be able to chirp again, it’s been a lean 4 years, having only Earl Rose to complain about, watch him play brilliantly for the Griquas.
@try time (Comment 37) : yeah,i agree..dick and co seems to want to get our senior players ..greedy,greedy 😡
@VanWilder (Comment 28) : That’s why there were two, not just one, of these 😆
Till when exactly were their contracts up until?
I have on many occasions attempted to convey my viewpoint regarding player transfer. When done by the book, then all is fair. I have no complaint regarding former Lions in the sharks squad, such as Deysel, Kockott, McLeod, etc. It’s those like Ludik and Alberts that I have a problem with. And yes, I also have a problem with JP Joubert.
@wpw (Comment 30) :
@Greg (Comment 43) : HAHAHA!!everytime there is a transfer we go through the same comments!! 😆 but good on ya, really good signings imo.
@Greg (Comment 43) :
“Till when exactly were their contracts up until? ”
What atrocious English 😳 😳
But you know what I mean 😆
@bergshark (Comment 42) : i was suggesting it is more a plum-mitchell agreement. look i sure it is not. but it does look funny. and the players definitely need more game time rather than sanding benches with their bottoms.
@Whindy (Comment 41) : i agree on the earl rose comment, he will shine at griquas. he will be a senior player there, and coach theron will not take any crap from him.
@bergshark (Comment 40) : cool. sharks catch up.
@Greg (Comment 43) : lions didnt want deysel ,remember .. lions didnt want deysel 😯 .. unbelievable .. but true !!!!
@bergshark (Comment 38) : Bergshark, please don’t tell me you really believe that? Streulli does not operate like that, if anything Plum is probably helping his mate out, and sees them as surplus to requirements. The sooner everybody recognises rugby as a business and the buying /contracting of players as a deal, the sooner we will see that loyalty has jack shit to do with it. Only Fans are loyal and not all of them to boot.
@VanWilder (Comment 45) : Yeah, we do. and it’s fun to do so. 😀
Only pity is we can’t actually change anything. Until SARU step in, and enforce their own rules, the status quo will remain. We claim this to be the professional era, but until everyone starts to act like professionals, there will always be problems. The rules regarding player transfer are very clear, they just tend to be ignored.
Good signings indeed, and well played to both Sharks and Lions management for doing things properly!
@bergshark (Comment 50) : True and it was Loffie who everybody praised for his Rugby knowledge, that let him go as well
@try time (Comment 47) : i think the suggestion that it is an agreement between plum and mitchell is spot -on ..now if they only want to keep their dirty paws off our senoir players ..and please send us back whiteley 😆
@robdylan (Comment 27) : yay, I have a cup
thanks
@bergshark (Comment 50) : Yep, that one always puzzled me too, first they loan him out to the Valke, and then release him to the sharks 🙄
@robdylan (Comment 27) : Even better will be seeing the Currie Cup in the Sharks hands on Saturday
@bergshark (Comment 54) : If you send back Alberts and Ludik
@Whindy (Comment 51) : i disagree .. the sharks do assist their players (those who dont make the grade at the sharks) find other interested clubs .. also,you must remember that player A you say good-bye to now,might just in a few years time (or even a few months time 😆 ) ,be a superstar ..and then you might need him again ..leave on a good footing 😉 makes future negotiations easier 🙂
@Greg (Comment 52) : yip, we always tend to compare rugby to football, but its a system that works for football, and it will work for rugby. the smaller unions that develop the player will get funds for doing that, and the bigger unions will have to pay up. that will also see players signing extended contracts, longer that 3 years, as that will assure the union receives money if the leave under contract.
@bergshark (Comment 54) : you can’t mould a senior player, you just have to learn to work around their shit. the senior players are safe at the sharks. and lions gain some good youngsters they can mould into their team. this is good for sa rugby. i have always felt excess players with great potentual should rather be loaned to another union than sit in no mans land wasting away, hoping that a senior player gets injured.
@Big Fish (Comment 36) :
Speaking of pies…
Will there be any at your pozzie on Saturday?? 🙄
@VanWilder (Comment 60) : that is why i suggested the sharks create a richards bay team or maritzburg team that can compete in the vc and cc1 division, where younger players can play to improve their skills. it works well in free state, where the cheetahs scoop all the good playes for super rugby. and province have the same ability.
@Whindy (Comment 53) : @Greg (Comment 56) : sorry guys ..at least he is playing in sa and not in some club in europe ,so his performances can be judged accordingly
@Greg (Comment 58) : 😆 sorry ,no can do
@VanWilder (Comment 60) : I would still like to see a centralised contracting system like they have in NZ that would put the Boks interest first. I would also like the smaller unions to loose some of their power within SARU. I think its ridiculous that the big unions are still dictated to by the smaller and in a lot of cases bankrupt unions, but because of their power (vote) within SARU they can dictate. Madness!!
@try time (Comment 63) : jip, a kind of Zululand union… another option is to agree players (juniors and fringe) play for a university (club) for them to qualify for varsity cup, thus giving such players a platform to play and for management to follow their progress.
@wpw (Comment 62) :
For you, anytime. 🙂
😯 only three grey college old boys in the sharks team for this weekend`s cc final !!!!!!! can it be ??
@Whindy (Comment 66) : yip, that seems to work just fine for NZ-rugby, as it spreads the talent better. except for canterbury, the real madrid of NZ.
@wpw (Comment 62) : hey, congrats on pool`s win over the weekend. torres back to form yet? i see he scored.
@bergshark (Comment 64) : True look at Ernst Joubert, playing some awesome rugby was a huge loss to the Lions I was hoping he would come back, much better leader than Baywatch!!
@try time (Comment 49) : ali hargreaves ,too ..now it`s three already 😯
@VanWilder (Comment 67) : and the possibilities it will create to develop the side of the game that we can’t talk about on this site. it will definitely be helpful. it wouldn’t cost the sharks that much more as most players are already contracted and paid.
@bergshark (Comment 69) : jip, there was a time where we had a few more hey? Ruan and Steyn. losing straus after this game, so we are back to 2 grey-old-boys. until we sign brussouw next year 😉
@bergshark (Comment 72) : ok one more and natal residents can call the team a home team. and not a barbarians team. 😆
it doesn’t look good for the sharks of development of the game in kzn when the lions team has more kzn players in it. kind of backs what certain divisions have been saying recently about the union.
@try time (Comment 73) : agreed, a good example is andries strauss. i could not see why the sharks kept him for so long, but now, after a good streak of starts in the 12 jumper, i almost feel that we could have used him more. and thats what game time in varsity cup or another sub-union will do for you.
@try time (Comment 75) : well,jacques botes spent some time at maritzburg college ..does that count ? 😆
@try time (Comment 76) : agreed, but there is no one that has left for the lions that i would want now in place of one of our starter-sharks. maybe, in a year or 2 years time, when theyve developed and started in super rugby etc, they will become superstars, but i back the fact that, we cant keep everybody, and you have to sign a squad that can be effective now.
@VanWilder (Comment 74) : was hoping brussow would be in the sharks team this year already 😀 .. will we have the money to afford him ,though 😐
@bergshark (Comment 78) : nope, he didnt!! he attended the same school as me?
@try time (Comment 63) : Years ago there used to be a team called Natal Country Districts. Should never have been disbanded and swallowed up into the NRU.
@VanWilder (Comment 79) : perhaps not starting,but that whiteley has some x-factor..would `ve had him on the bench,i reckon..also tackles,tackles and tackles !!! can see he is hungry
@VanWilder (Comment 81) : will go and get my sharks mag .. give you the year ,month and pages the article was written on ..trust me .. you from potch gym?
@VanWilder (Comment 81) : sharks mag october 2005 .. albert heenop to jacques botes :”i dont think to many people realise that you also attended maritzburg college..”
jacques botes: “in standerd eight , my folks moved down to pmb and that`s how i spent a year at college.”page 15
@VanWilder (Comment 70) :
Indeedio!! 😎
We’re still in the bottom 3 though!! 👿 😕
@bergshark (Comment 85) : my bad then… yip, was at Potch Gym. He was Head boy at our Hostel when i was std 6. would be interesting to know how he did at Maritzburg, rugbywise…
@Whindy (Comment 41) : And the Cheetahs, he has been named in the Cheetahs provisional Super 15 squad.
well done to the Lions. Those are really nice catches. I am rather disturbed that Sharks let Rhodes go.
I think Cilliers was less likely to get game time so not that surprised by this move.
@Sportbilly (Comment 4) : but perhaps we can call other union : “poachers” 😆
@Zibbie (Comment 19) : isn’t transfer fee payable to the union?? 😉
I think the Cheetahs (cheaters) and Lions should take note of how to manage their players. These players wanted to further their career in another union and the Sharks did something unheard of from the above unions, THEY RELEASED THEM FROM THEIR CONTRACTS.
Can anyone tell me about Tian Meyer? He plays scrum-half and centre for the Pumas?
@Butchie34 (Comment 92) : 😀
I think after your post they are all running to find dictionaries.
@Mocho (Comment 93) : he used to one of our juniors… did an article about him a while back
@Butchie34 (Comment 92) : You ever hear of a player called Jean Deysel? Maybe Charl McLeod, Rory Kockot, Gerhard Mostert. All RELEASED from contracts with the Lions, and currently plying their trade in durban.
I’m quite surprised the sharks let these guys go especially Rhodes who can play well at lock and flank. I was really surprised when he was omitted from the semi – final team and Bresler took his place, any one think this had something to do with it? Still think Rhodes would have played a sizeable roll in next years super 15 as Deysel is injury prone and Alberts would need to be rested from time to time.
@Greg (Comment 96) : and Willem Alberts 😉
Would you like Rory back ?
@rekinek (Comment 98) : Alberts and Ludik were not released, because there were plans for them, the others I mentioned didn’t, at the time, fit into the picture, and they were released(in some cases stupidly).
Butchie said “did something unheard of from the above unions”, this is incorrect, Lions have often released players.
wrt Rory, not right now thanks, we are ok at 9 for the moment 😆 😆
@Butchie34 (Comment 92) : Please Butchie why did they release them?? “Sources in Durban have confirmed that prop Patric Cilliers and flank Michael Rhodes, both products of Michaelhouse, have fallen victim to the budget considerations that come into focus at this time of year.” Lets hear the whole story not just about how nice the Sharks are about releasing them, they have no money too pay them, economics 101!!
@Whindy (Comment 100) : And I would still like to know up until when they were contracted? Were they really released early?
@Greg (Comment 96) : the Lions didn’t choose to release Alberts and Ludik 🙂
@Greg (Comment 101) : Greg, Lets face it, these sharks are no more considerate that any other union, much as their fans would like to believe they are and as I said earlier this is Business if they no longer add value they are gone, the Sharks boys would like to spin it the other way, but that is short sighted and amateur, which they are always bragging that they are the most professional union in SA, then they will get rid of surplus. I just hope they do not regret it in years to come like we did with Deysel and a no of others. Actually that’s not true I hope they do regret it 😉
@Greg (Comment 15) : don’t know if you remember but I predicted this move for patrick
@Whindy (Comment 41) : Dude I welcome the chirps and salute you for sticking to your team.People change allegiances far too easily.
These “depth players” like Rhodes Cilliers Burden etc played a great part in the sharks topping the log and hosting the semi and final which helps to full the coffers a lot. They are now the ones who the sharks can’t afford to keep…
@robdylan (Comment 102) : That’s kinda what I said 😆
Ok, technically the Lions did release them, early from their contract, but only because the arbitrator told them too. 👿
Do you know when either of these two’s contract with the sharks was due to end?
@Ben (Comment 104) : Yeah, I remember, I also said on that thread that I would like that to happen!
This is really bad news Pat boy is a great and talented player the dame SNOILS now i don’t like them anymore 👿
And then they say Sharks are Poaches 🙄 mmm i think next time they must get their story right 😳 and look at other CC teams before they take a look at us 😉
@Greg (Comment 13) : 👿 😈 why can’y u just leave us alone [email protected] the SNOILS 😉
@try time (Comment 34) : gee i was in town today and they say the Lions are in the final if u look at the players, well i don’t know but if they keep on poaching our players and win for some reason just think of it this way it will be the Sharks wining with all the x Shark players 🙂
@Greg (Comment 99) : ok – perhaps a bit of emphasis, but the point is I never heard about Sharks standing in the way of any player wanting to leave. I never heard, does not mean it did not happen. This seems to be the Lions and Cheetahs domain and you ask yourself what’s the purpose of having disgrunted and unhappy player in your team. Pocket the transfer fees if on offer and create a culture when people actually wanna be.
@rekinek (Comment 112) : now that is spoken out of a true Sharks Supporter 😉
Any info on whats happening with other players who might be considered depth players like Downey, Swanepoel, andre pretorious etc
@wpw (Comment 62) : just noticed this post .. are you no longer on a diet
😉
Sounds Like WILTON PIETERSON has also signed for the lions for a year. Good young winger.
@JJR (Comment 116) : slash fullback
@RuckingFun (Comment 114) : Downey is still considering his options. Not sure what’s up with Swannie. Trying hard to find out, trust me.
Not good news at all. These guys are going do great things at the Lions, Cilliers in particular is a big loss.
@JJR (Comment 116) : He was at the Lions under 21 this year already
Absolutely gutted! Just when we were starting to have homegrown players in the team again…
I think that both Cilliers and Rhodes were contracted until the end of December, but as basically rugby is finished for 2010 season, they were “released” so that they could join the Lions for the start of the Super 15 training, which will start middle NOvember. This makes sense! Also from what I have heard they were offered contracts by the Lions, which were matched by the Sharks, but the whole issue is game time, not necessarily the Rc. I am sure that they will be sorry to leave the Sharks but what a win for the Lions. Well done guys!
@rekinek (Comment 112) :
“Pocket the transfer fees if on offer” – that’s really been my point all along in any of these discussions. Make an offer, and put it out in the open. Don’t look for loopholes in contracts, and create bad feeling. If a player is really unhappy, he has two options, see out his contract, and move at the end, or approach the union where he is, and ask to be put on the market when the transfer window opens, other unions then make a salary offer to the player, and a transfer fee offer to the transferring union. Works all over the world, in all codes of sport, why not in SA rugby?