Morné

Poles apart


Written by Morné Nortier (Morné)

Posted in :Lions, Original Content, Sharks on 1 Mar 2011 at 09:17
Tagged with : , , , , ,

Elton Jantjies capped of an impressive 2010 with a call-up to the Springbok squad, so why does the 2011 version seem so out of his depth?

Popular opinion would suggest that the Lions lost two matches they should have won because of kicks Elton Jantjies missed, and although I will not contest his failures in this area the assessment would be short-sighted.  There are simply too many dynamics involved with rugby as a team sport to highlight just one aspect as the sole reason for defeat or losses.

What we can ask, is why a player that averaged 80% in the Currie Cup of 2010 with his kicks at goal, only manages 40% in the two Super rugby games played so far?

Kicking is about feeling good about yourself.  You need to have confidence, you need to have rhythm and you need to have timing, and when all of that comes together things just work.

Jantjies proved in 2010 that he can kick, so it is not a question whether he is capable or not, it is more of a question of what has changed from last year to now.

The most obvious difference I can highlight is that he managed an 80% record in Currie Cup rugby, this is Super rugby, and it is a completely different kettle of fish.  It could also then tell us that the main reason may be confidence, and that the pressures are very different from the arena where he achieved success to where he finds himself now.

And when you lose confidence or struggle under pressure as a kicker, you can easily lose rhythm and timing with it.

In isolation the Jantjies situation is not really that interesting, the Lions can easily call upon Burton Francis or Andre Pretorius to step in with Jantjies taking a more backseat role to regain his confidence.  But what is interesting is that another youngster, who joined him on the end of the year tour with the Springboks also coming off a magical 2010 season, is coming on in leaps and bounds and is doing more than just making the step up.

I am of course referring to young Pat Lambie, who has been given the Sharks number 10 jersey for the first couple of matches in Super rugby.

Although there was not much to write home about in the Cheetahs fixture played in awful conditions, young Lambie certainly did not disgrace himself, but it was against the Blues, one of New Zealand’s top franchises that Lambie gave us a glimpse of the aptitude he has for the big stage.

Not only did he average over 85% with his kicks at goal against the Blues (70% over two matches), but he also attacked the line brilliantly (scored one try), varied his play well, and defended like a Trojan.

Personally, his defense impressed me the most (made 7 tackles, did not miss one), when while watching the game I, could not help but think that I am seeing a young, turn-of-the-century Jonny Wilkinson at play.

So as much as I am not writing Elton Jantjies off, believing he is an immensely talented player that needs a bit more guidance and management, I have no doubt that Lambie, for the time being at least, has shown that he is the future at flyhalf for South Africa.


187 Comments

  • I believe Pat’s combined percentage is higher than 70%, Morne. He has kicked 10 from 12 over the last two weeks.

  • Comment 1, posted at 01.03.11 09:30:18 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 1) :

    I think Morne has taken into account the two kicks that Stef missed last weekend.

  • Comment 2, posted at 01.03.11 09:34:15 by Richard Ferguson Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    Richard Ferguson
     
  • Great read Morne.

    I hear what you are saying with regards to kicking, but whether you kick in Currie Cup or kick in Super Rugby, the poles are still the same.

    But you make a valid point that there is a bit more riding on whether he is successful in the kick or not.

    Very interesting read.

  • Comment 3, posted at 01.03.11 09:35:39 by Richard Ferguson Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    Richard Ferguson
     
  • That is exactly what I said in a post yesterday!! Just not in so many words! But then Morne is a man of many words -although this is short and sweet in his books! 😆

  • Comment 4, posted at 01.03.11 09:40:10 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 2) : ah ok. Hardly fair that 🙂

  • Comment 5, posted at 01.03.11 09:42:47 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • Yep, mental fitness or ability plays a huge role.
    News of Carlos Spencer have been scarce, does this have an impact?

  • Comment 6, posted at 01.03.11 09:46:37 by Crock Reply

    Crock
     
  • Lions have a simple solution: Start the Rocket at 9, he`ll take some pressure off Elton!

    Think they`ll lose too much on attack if they go with Francis and Mr P is a bit unpredictable.

  • Comment 7, posted at 01.03.11 10:06:57 by Original Champion Reply
    Author
    Original Pierre
     
  • He got fat over christmas

  • Comment 8, posted at 01.03.11 10:08:44 by Rahul Reply

    Rahul
     
  • I think it has a lot to do with insufficient man managment on the lions part.Remember when he had a weight issue??That for instance should not happen..

  • Comment 9, posted at 01.03.11 10:11:10 by ruggabugga Reply

    ruggabugga
     
  • Am I the only one that thinks the Barbarians game played a role in Jantjies losing his confidence?

  • Comment 10, posted at 01.03.11 10:24:58 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Ben
     
  • @Ben (Comment 10) : why so Ben?

  • Comment 11, posted at 01.03.11 10:33:34 by ruggabugga Reply

    ruggabugga
     
  • @ruggabugga (Comment 11) : He had a very bad game, that might have made him think that he isn’t good enough to play international level rugby.

  • Comment 12, posted at 01.03.11 10:35:54 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Ben
     
  • Although I respect Morne’s views highly, I am concerned about all the fuss around Lambs. Let’s give him a fair chance and assess him halfway. I thought he was crap against Cheetahs and brilliant on Sat. I will brag about him around the braai, but think we should keep him off Huisgenoot’s cover for now.He is our boy, so let’s look after him SA and Sharks!

  • Comment 13, posted at 01.03.11 10:35:59 by catfish Reply
    Author
    catfish
     
  • @Ben (Comment 12) : And then got stuck into some comfort food. 😈

  • Comment 14, posted at 01.03.11 10:46:58 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 14) : Depression makes one eat a lot! 😉

  • Comment 15, posted at 01.03.11 10:48:11 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Ben
     
  • Good article Morne.

    My feeling is Elton is feeling the pressure of SuperRugby. When nerves set in even the best of the best will miss many. Remember Ruan? Ruan missed many. That was just nerves, same with Elton.

    With some players they handle the nerves better.

    Remember Lions have pressure to win their first SuperRugby game since 2009. That alone could be putting the pressure on, where as in CC it was not a issue.

    Nerves don’t seem to affect Lambie at all. Though the eoyt seemed like it did a bit, but my feeling it was more to do with the conditions over there and coming on late in the game. Think Lambies bmt helps him.

  • Comment 16, posted at 01.03.11 10:49:55 by Puma Reply

    Puma
     
  • One word: Pressure.

    There is a lot of hype around the Lions at the moment and I think the pressure is simply too much for Jantjies, especially since he had a very good Currie Cup and got rewarded with a Bok jersey.

    Jantjies is perceived by many to be in the same mould as his mentor Carlos Spencer, and he has shown similar abilities, but I can imagine that the younster is simply feeling the heat to perform.

    He seems to be torn between the need to play the structured rugby required in Super competitions and expressing himself like he did in the CC.

    As Crock mentioned, we haven’t seen Carlos around, who most likely encourages Jantjies to have a go like the Reds coaching staff have encouraged Cooper, with great results.

  • Comment 17, posted at 01.03.11 10:50:40 by rhineshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of Rugby
     
  • This article is all about promoting Pats claims to the Bok flyhalf berth,which is fine,but the stuff written about Elton is absolute twaddle.Yes he has missed a few kicks but his general play has been very good and there is zero chance he will be dropped,so stop pushing that notion.His defence,attack and distribution have all been excellent and shows no lack of confidence as alledged.As for his kicking,on Sat he missed two touchline convertions and one penalty where the ball fell over and he was rushed.Could happen to the best and for those with short memeories,do you remember Lambies first Bok kick? Where Lambie is superior is his tactical and out of hand kicking and if a Bok side was to be chosen today he would be my choice for sure.To suggest that Elton is playing badly is ludicrous and he is definately the only choice worth pursuing at the Lions.Oh,and i’m sure his kicking will be sorted by the time we meet the Sharks 😉

  • Comment 18, posted at 01.03.11 10:52:54 by wade Reply

     
  • @robdylan (Comment 5) :

    That is why you are the Sharks fanatic that will correct my stats which is based on team kicking stats rather than individual, thanks Rob!

    @catfish (Comment 13) :

    I very seldom talk a player up, and if you can believe it, I am more concerned about the progress or lack of it that Jantjies has made, than I am ecstatic about the progress of Lambie.

    Both are something special, a breed of flyhalf I have written about and yearned for many years now. I believe Lambie is the real deal, and I believe Jantjies is not far off.

  • Comment 19, posted at 01.03.11 10:54:43 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • i dont think we should read too much into Jantjes bad kicking performance as yet. sometimes kickers go through a bad patch, even morne steyn, dan carter and johny wilkonson went through patches like that.

    its very much a confidence thing, such as bowling in cricket and strikers in football. look at parnell vs Morkel/Steyn, all talented, parnell only struggling with his convidence. another kicker who cant seem to find his radar this season is Berick barnes, also an accomplished kicker, just out of form.

    IMO, Jantjes kicking woes should only be short term. i`m not his biggest fan, but the boy showed last year, he CAN kick.

  • Comment 20, posted at 01.03.11 11:00:17 by VanWilder Reply

    VanWilder
     
  • Jantjies is still a kid, and has had a few setbacks, including a poor Barbarians game and finding out his conditioning was poor. A youngster will find his confidence dip with that.

    He has serious talent though, and has shown that he has good kicking skills – this is a confidence issue.

    Pat is simply a talent on another level – which doesn’t mean that mismanagement can’t set him back: we need to continue developing him as we have.

    I have loved his play over the last 2 weeks – his kicking out of hand has been very mature, while his goal-kicking, handling, defending and distribution has also been great.

  • Comment 21, posted at 01.03.11 11:03:31 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big Fish
     
  • So apparently according to Gary Böshof, Charl McLOed was getting away with murder at the breakdown and was throwing the ball in skew. . Did I miss something watching the game thrice?

  • Comment 22, posted at 01.03.11 11:06:14 by Mocho Reply

    Mocho
     
  • @wade (Comment 18) :
    Morne is a Stormers fan – throw in another 5-bob and try again.

  • Comment 23, posted at 01.03.11 11:06:46 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big Fish
     
  • Even worse! Could be he is pandering to a captive audience.
    Makes sense now!

  • Comment 24, posted at 01.03.11 11:17:17 by wade Reply

     
  • And this is what Spencer says (News24):

    Johannesburg – Elton Jantjies is feeling the relentless pressure of Vodacom Super Rugby.

    The player’s mentor at the Lions – former All Black flyhalf Carlos Spencer – believes more confidence is the solution for the young flyhalf’s poor goalkicking to date in the tournament.

    Jantjies (20) succeeded with only 2 out of 5 kicks at goal for the second successive weekend against the Stormers on Saturday.

    And, just as was the case against the Bulls, the Lions lost narrowly, even though their highly-rated opponents had to defend desperately at the end.

    Had Jantjies succeeded with the kicks he missed, things could have been different. But it’s not as if the promising flyhalf doesn’t know it.

    “It’s confidence,” Spencer said of Jantjies’ goalkicking poor success ratio of 40% to date in this year’s tournament.

    “He managed it last year. He can kick. But this is a different tournament. He is under a lot of pressure, which is taking its toll. He now has to work on his rhythm.

    “You need an 80% success ratio in this competition and he isn’t anywhere near that. We’re paying for that and he knows it. And that knowledge means added pressure. Therefore he has to put it right.”

    Spencer and head coach John Mitchell have already made it clear that they will back the players they are picking.

  • Comment 25, posted at 01.03.11 11:21:59 by rhineshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of Rugby
     
  • To me its more than merely missing a few kicks, that is missing.

  • Comment 26, posted at 01.03.11 11:25:52 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
     
  • @Mocho (Comment 22) : Boshoff is just embarrassed that McLeod was so much better than the boy wonder this weekend.

  • Comment 27, posted at 01.03.11 11:26:00 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @catfish (Comment 13) : I’m sorry… he was “crap” against the Cheetahs? I know this is a blog and opinions are welcome, but I would prefer you to actually substantiate that one with something solid.

    I can’t say I recall pat ever being “crap” and would love to hear your counter argument.

  • Comment 28, posted at 01.03.11 11:28:34 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • No scrummie to my knowledge throughs that ball in straight – others just a lot more noticable than others! 😆

  • Comment 29, posted at 01.03.11 11:34:57 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
     
  • Thing about kicking is it doesnt make a flyhalf a better ball player, so why is Jantjies not on form ? From what i have seen he has been on form regarding his distribution and running game.Are we letting our fear that he may grow into a better player than our beloved SuperPat cloud our judgement when it comes to talking rubgy . I would rather have Ruan Pienaar play 10 than morne steyn and morne is a better kicker, carefull we are promoting blue bulls donkey rugby with such notions. RE Lambie & Jantjies ;If I had to compare the two of them to other players ,Carter & Spencer-Jantjies being the latter. Guys I know this is like the Sharks church where its either praise Pat or Hail Sharks ,but lets not make judgements on players based on our commitment to sharks ,lets call a spade a spade . Jantjies is an extreme talent as is pat ,neither have 100% kicking record,and to be honest comparing % is stupid becuase it doesnt show you where the kick where from or under what circumstances and what not.

  • Comment 30, posted at 01.03.11 11:35:32 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @wade (Comment 24) :

    Not really, it might appear first on here, but it will also get posted on 2 other sites who has little to no affiliation with the Sharks or its fans.

  • Comment 31, posted at 01.03.11 11:35:45 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • Than some..

  • Comment 32, posted at 01.03.11 11:36:31 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
     
  • One thing is certain ,both sides have adopted a more high tempo game based on their flyhalfs distribution and both flyhalfs have flourished under such a game . There will come a time when the Springbok coach will either have to measure up the two of them and drop one and play the other or we may find ourselves playing super pat @ 12 or 15 becuase he is to good to leave out, what position he plays for the sharks is Plumtrees and Pats choice

  • Comment 33, posted at 01.03.11 11:41:25 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @Talent (Comment 30) : I have edited your comment to remove the inflammatory language and would like to remind you that you are already on a warning for unacceptable comments here.

  • Comment 34, posted at 01.03.11 11:43:08 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @Morné (Comment 31) : I suspect some here have an axe to grind, though, so will take any ammunition they can get, whether it was intended that way or not.

  • Comment 35, posted at 01.03.11 11:44:04 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • And he isnt fat by the way ,if you notice he has large legs and hips ,a player cant play a full game of rugby once a week with gym work and training and still eat enough to be fat ,he would have to eat something like 4500 calories a day

  • Comment 36, posted at 01.03.11 11:44:35 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @Talent (Comment 30) : even a woman can see Jantjies is far from where he should be. And compared to Pat – he has certainly fallen behind. Can he step it up? Hell yes, I think he can. But the comparison is where both of them are NOW from last year. And it does not take a statistical rugby disecting genius to see who’s in the lead.

    And I promise u, no one on here jugment based on commitment to the Sharks is clouded – especially not Roberto’s! 😆 😉

  • Comment 37, posted at 01.03.11 11:45:53 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
     
  • Carlos Spencer, in his prime, was a prodigously talented attacking player. When afforded a little space and time, he could destroy teams single-handedly; sleight of hand, creativity, pace, you name it, he had the whole box of tricks with the packaging it came in. However, when teams shut down his room to move he seemed to be unable to resort to the orthodox, percentage rugby tactics required of the situation. There are other, similar players, of which Isaiah Toeava springs to mind; mind-bogglingly talented, a thing of wonder to behold with room to move in, ineffectual when pressure is applied.

    I am concerned that Elton Jantjies is dsplaying the same kind of qualities. That his is blessed with talent to burn is not in doubt, but whether he has the necessary grit to make it count, well, the jury’s still out on that one. Fortunately time is on his side, and I for one will be rooting for him.

  • Comment 38, posted at 01.03.11 11:46:15 by Culling Song Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Culling Song
     
  • @Ben (Comment 15) :

    I agree. Just ask Big Fish!

    The last time I saw him he had grown two asses!! 😈 :mrgreen:

  • Comment 39, posted at 01.03.11 11:46:35 by wpw Reply
    Author
    wpw
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 34) : okay sorry didnt think that would offend people ,will keep it in mind

  • Comment 40, posted at 01.03.11 11:46:38 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @Talent (Comment 36) : or it could be genetic? Hell yeah – ol’ Ronnie is a sleak super trooper model… 🙄

  • Comment 41, posted at 01.03.11 11:48:46 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
     
  • I seem to remember Mitchell asking PDV not too take Jantjies on the EOYT because he was nursing a foot injury… is it possible he is still nursing that injury and that that could perhaps be having an influence on his kicking game?

  • Comment 42, posted at 01.03.11 11:54:01 by CS Reply

    CS
     
  • Nice article Morne.

    Not too fussed about Jantjies. Every player is allowed an off day or two and, add to the fact that he’s only 20, and its completely understandable.

    I’m juts over the moon that SA had three first-choice flyhalves over the weekend that were under the age of 21. And all three look exciting, to varying degrees. It bodes very well for the future.
    Where are the days when we couldnt buy a flyhalf in South Africa?

    A bit like the abundance of spinners we now have in the cricket side. Who’d have thought?

  • Comment 43, posted at 01.03.11 11:54:09 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • It seems most have missed the point of this article.

    Both players were exceptional last year, both imo got a deserved Bok call up.

    Pat has carried on with his form, Jantjies has hit a slump.

    I have looked at goal kicking because this is a primary job for both players, and a goal-kicking average below 80% in this competition is suicide – quite simple.

    I have not compared general 10 play, that is a completely different debate.

    Take this from where and who it comes from.

    I have stated many times in the past that I will not go into test match rugby without a goal-kicker that does not slot over 80% of his kicks, for me this is vitally important.

    It is the difference between me playing an average all-round flyhalf, but brilliant kicker (Steyn) rather than a stupidly talented all round flyhalf (Jantjies or Lambie).

    Jantjies 40% this year, from and 80% average last year, is very concerning.

  • Comment 44, posted at 01.03.11 11:54:46 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @Ice (Comment 37) : okay well I dont think it matters whether or not you are a women or man becuase from what I have noticed youre rugby knowledge is sound. I find myself just questioning why people think Jantjies is any worse than Pat. Jantjies has played against the defending champs and runners up and in my view he has been the better flyhalf both times. Who would I choose as my 10 for the boks ,i couldnt say yet .What I dont understand is why we even having this debate ,they are both way down the ladder -Butch Morne and Pienaar are all Multi test springboks and should lead the boks to the world cup as 10s . It is not their time yet .

  • Comment 45, posted at 01.03.11 11:54:52 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @Morné (Comment 44) : From two s15 games? or does that take into consideration warm up games ,if not then it may be premature to judge his kicking form based on two games ,lets rather look at a season, agree?

  • Comment 46, posted at 01.03.11 11:57:06 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @Morné (Comment 44) :

    Two poor games is hardly a slump… but yeah, point taken.

    And lets not forget Jantjies played against the Stormers and Bulls… Lambie played against the Cheetahs and Blues… hardly comparable.

  • Comment 47, posted at 01.03.11 11:57:15 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 43) :

    Isn’t it just!

    And not just able, the type of flyhalfs we have been asking for many a year now.

  • Comment 48, posted at 01.03.11 11:57:34 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @wade (Comment 18) : Wade….this site actually had Jantjies is their CC team of the year ahead of Lambie (granted the team was announced before the CC final) so I don’t think you can accuse anybody of trying to run Jantjies down. Morne is a long suffering Stormers supporter by the way and I think it was mainly his influence last year that had Elton Jantjie in the SHAKRSworld CC team of the year.

  • Comment 49, posted at 01.03.11 11:57:55 by Pokkel Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Author
     
  • @Talent (Comment 46) : @VinChainSaw (Comment 47) :

    Yeah from two games. The difference is just too massive for my liking, and it seems to be a real concern for his backline coach Spencer too.

  • Comment 50, posted at 01.03.11 11:59:02 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • Oh boy this debate is heating up! And I’m loving it! 🙂

  • Comment 51, posted at 01.03.11 11:59:22 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Ben
     
  • @Ice (Comment 41) : Probably genetic ,like al hargeevees small arms -doesnt stop him from playing is heart out and being one of the better locks in south africa

  • Comment 52, posted at 01.03.11 11:59:29 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 49) :

    It was indeed but don’t tell anyone ;). Elton was my flyhalf of 2010, and many disagreed, but deserved young player of the year too as I mentioned at the time.

  • Comment 53, posted at 01.03.11 12:00:32 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @Morné (Comment 50) :

    You need some mroe patience dude.

    And like I said – the difference in playing the Stormers/Bulls and Cheetahs/Blues is also huge.
    Lets talk again after five or ten games. Not saying you’re wrong by any means, just that you may be a tad premature. Give him room to move.

  • Comment 54, posted at 01.03.11 12:00:42 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @Morné (Comment 44) : well, then this blonde obviously DID get the point! Now all of the rest, go home and have a good cry! U were outsmarted by a blonde girl today! 😈

    Sjoe! Shoe! Talent, off u go!… 😉

  • Comment 55, posted at 01.03.11 12:00:53 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
     
  • In form, out of form pfffft. Both players are exceptionally talented individuals, for any age.

    Personally, I rejoice that we have both of these players in South Africa at the same time. I can’t wait to see the levels that they can push each other too in the coming years.

  • Comment 56, posted at 01.03.11 12:01:15 by Bump Reply

    Bump
     
  • @Ben (Comment 51) :

    But it will have to heat up without me! I am out for a while. 🙂

  • Comment 57, posted at 01.03.11 12:01:46 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 54) : If this was facebook I would like this comment ! 🙂 Cheers all have a good day

  • Comment 58, posted at 01.03.11 12:02:07 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @Talent (Comment 36) :
    Come off it. You merrily accuse other people of bias in assessing Jantjies, but your own comments seem to be a bit off-centre. His conditioning has been an issue of discussion by a large number of folks – this is not an SW creation.

    He is a great talent – but he has some focus areas: that doesn’t make him less of a prospect.

    @wpw (Comment 39) : Jealousy makes you nasty. And to judge by you, nasty makes you look like Fat Albert. Where are the Cosby Kids?

  • Comment 59, posted at 01.03.11 12:03:19 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big Fish
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 54) :

    Sure, big fan of Jantjies personally, so let’s see.

    BTW, I might be the only one to rate the Blues as NZ’s best chance of a Super rugby title at the moment, but I do not think they are a push-over team by any means.

  • Comment 60, posted at 01.03.11 12:03:55 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @Morné (Comment 57) : I’m just a passer by here as well. Not getting involved! 😉

  • Comment 61, posted at 01.03.11 12:04:49 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Ben
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 49) :

    Jy vergeet gou gou ek was ook op daai selection panel!!

    I’ll do anything to piss of the Sharks supporters!! 😈

  • Comment 62, posted at 01.03.11 12:05:05 by wpw Reply
    Author
    wpw
     
  • @Ice (Comment 55) :

    This article came with peroxide! 🙂

    Anycase, out for a bit, ciao for now!

  • Comment 63, posted at 01.03.11 12:06:52 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • Please people! SO WHAT if we favour Lambie!? This is sharksworld after all.

  • Comment 64, posted at 01.03.11 12:07:05 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Ben
     
  • I just want to state I am a sharks fan. 🙄 but i like to be unbiased and honest . Apologies due if I upset any one in any way, as I am now on a warning for letting my emotions get out of check.

  • Comment 65, posted at 01.03.11 12:12:34 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 28) :Robbo! Very sensitive about our boytjie! The high standards that he has set himself, certainly made him dissap me against Cheetahs. Seemed like his 9 struggled to find him, passed behind his centers, kicking options not the best and easy kicks @ poles missed. BUT he is allowed to as he is still learning. I forgive and still think he is our future!

  • Comment 66, posted at 01.03.11 12:13:43 by catfish Reply
    Author
    catfish
     
  • @Morné (Comment 63) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 67, posted at 01.03.11 12:14:01 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
     
  • @Talent (Comment 65) : Go for a walk.

  • Comment 68, posted at 01.03.11 12:14:21 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Ben
     
  • @Ben (Comment 68) : or count to 10

  • Comment 69, posted at 01.03.11 12:22:09 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
     
  • @Ice (Comment 69) : Or maybe he should buy himself a punching bag! 😉

  • Comment 70, posted at 01.03.11 12:24:22 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Ben
     
  • @Talent (Comment 65) : I find it very hard understanding how you could now defend Jantjies when just last week you said he will be picked for the boks for basicly one reason. Not mentioning what that reason is as it is not within the rules. But you know what I’m talking about.

  • Comment 71, posted at 01.03.11 12:29:39 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Ben
     
  • @catfish (Comment 66) : he missed ONE kick at poles against the Cheetahs and had, to my mind, a pretty useful all round game, although admittedly off his best.

    It’s so easy to throw out a word like “crap”, though… I’d like to think we owe these guys a little bit more than that, lest we lose any vestige of credibility with the many influential people (including a lot of players) who read our commentary.

    Something to think about.

    I wouldn’t like to have to explain to Pat or any of his family why I let someone get away with calling him “crap” on my blog. If that makes me sensitive, then so be it.

  • Comment 72, posted at 01.03.11 12:45:48 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @Talent (Comment 65) : look, there is no real issue here and the others will agree that I am generally quick to forgive and forget as long as the warning(s) is (are) heeded. References to the Holocaust are a HUGE no-no, and discussions pertaining to race are also completely verboten… both os those should be perfectly clear to anyone who has read our rules… you have read those, right? 🙂

  • Comment 73, posted at 01.03.11 12:48:27 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 72) : Surely not. 🙄

  • Comment 74, posted at 01.03.11 12:49:06 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @catfish (Comment 66) : ok wait… guess I came down pretty hard there. It’s just the word “crap” that I don’t like.

    I have no issue with you or anyone saying that you didn’t think Pat was at hid best, or felt that he had an average performance, or anything like that. But saying someone is/was “crap” is a horribly negative and sweeping statement and I for one do not feel that we should say things like that about players here – especially not Sharks ones :mrgreen:

  • Comment 75, posted at 01.03.11 12:50:08 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • Well, when was the last time we actually had two or three (judging of what I saw of van Aswegen) young flyhalves of pretty decent talent to debate over and get hot under the collar about?

    Can only mean good things for SA rugby 😎

  • Comment 76, posted at 01.03.11 12:50:42 by rhineshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of Rugby
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 74) : don’t roll your eyes at me, sir! 🙂

  • Comment 77, posted at 01.03.11 12:50:56 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 73) : Verboten 😆

  • Comment 78, posted at 01.03.11 12:52:29 by rhineshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of Rugby
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 77) : 😛

  • Comment 79, posted at 01.03.11 12:52:40 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @rhineshark (Comment 78) : ja, ich lehrne doch auch Duetsch sprechen 🙂

  • Comment 80, posted at 01.03.11 13:00:17 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 79) : you bastards got me monologuing!

  • Comment 81, posted at 01.03.11 13:00:41 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 81) :

    Okay guys mission accomplished, Rob has gone dilly, time to close the comments on this thread now 😈

  • Comment 82, posted at 01.03.11 13:03:05 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @Morné (Comment 82) : you sly bastard! And the weird thing is, you didn’t even attack Pat in your article… quite the opposite 🙂

  • Comment 83, posted at 01.03.11 13:05:58 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 80) : You haven’t been reading Mein Kampf have you? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 84, posted at 01.03.11 13:08:26 by rhineshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of Rugby
     
  • I think Lambie handles the pressure better than Jantjies at the moment and I think his temperament is his biggest asset. Lambie also seems to have a lot of time on the ball and all the great 10’s in the world seem to have time and rarely seem rushed.

  • Comment 85, posted at 01.03.11 13:09:02 by Pokkel Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Author
     
  • @rhineshark (Comment 84) : please don’t you start with that sheise as well… 🙁

  • Comment 86, posted at 01.03.11 13:10:45 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • What Rob ranting about??

  • Comment 87, posted at 01.03.11 13:12:30 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
     
  • @Ice (Comment 87) : Crap. 😈 :mrgreen:

  • Comment 88, posted at 01.03.11 13:15:23 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 88) : hehehehehehe :mrgreen:

  • Comment 89, posted at 01.03.11 13:17:13 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 88) : @Ice (Comment 89) : I really love you guys, you know that? 🙂

  • Comment 90, posted at 01.03.11 13:22:35 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 86) : As well? Others on your case too about reading dicey German literature? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 91, posted at 01.03.11 13:27:28 by rhineshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of Rugby
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 90) : but you can still take away platinum stars cause you’re the boss.

  • Comment 92, posted at 01.03.11 13:28:18 by Pokkel Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Author
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 90) : We love you too. 😈

  • Comment 93, posted at 01.03.11 13:31:34 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 92) : “but, I love you, Daddy”. **fluttering eyes**

  • Comment 94, posted at 01.03.11 13:31:38 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
     
  • Just heard John Cena was killed in a hail of bullets, when they tried to ambush his 4×4 Jeep Cherokee!

  • Comment 95, posted at 01.03.11 13:43:09 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
     
  • @rhineshark (Comment 91) : it’s more the views of the author that I have an issue with, but we’ll say no more of that here!

  • Comment 96, posted at 01.03.11 13:43:59 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • Jeez I like this talent guy.

  • Comment 97, posted at 01.03.11 13:44:47 by Speed7 Reply

    Speed7
     
  • @Ice (Comment 95) : Really? 😯

  • Comment 98, posted at 01.03.11 13:58:39 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @Ice (Comment 95) :
    Who is John Cena? 😳

  • Comment 99, posted at 01.03.11 14:03:41 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the Subtle
     
  • I also see that Skonk Nicholson has passed away. A KZN schools rugby legend if ever there was one.

  • Comment 100, posted at 01.03.11 14:07:48 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the Subtle
     
  • @Salmonoid (Comment 99) : WWF wrestler – 33 yrs old. I don’t watch it, but I know who JC is! 😉

  • Comment 101, posted at 01.03.11 14:09:38 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
     
  • both Lambi and Jantjies didn’t kick well at the EYOT so this would serve to confirm your theory about feeling confident to be able to master one’s kicks.

    Also I think there is far less pressure on Lambie when it comes to the kicks. Sharks won comfortably both games so far so nothing was hinging on slotting the goals.

  • Comment 102, posted at 01.03.11 14:16:22 by rekinek Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition Winner Author
    rekinek
     
  • @Ice (Comment 101) :
    I love wrestling – as long as its a tag event, with the wrestlers wearing 1,2 and 3 on their backs and they have a Sharks logo on their chests.

    Not good with WWF but have watched more of it than I have of Oprah. Oprah total time watched is less than 10 minutes.

  • Comment 103, posted at 01.03.11 14:17:20 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the Subtle
     
  • @rekinek (Comment 102) :
    I thought this was an article about you.

  • Comment 104, posted at 01.03.11 14:18:18 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the Subtle
     
  • @Original Champion (Comment 7) : pretend you rest Vermaak 😈 and see how it goes.

    I am no sure whether that would be a fair swop.

  • Comment 105, posted at 01.03.11 14:18:45 by rekinek Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition Winner Author
    rekinek
     
  • @Salmonoid (Comment 104) : 😯 I can assure you I look nothing like Elton :mrgreen: or is it reference to my SB performance 😳 – shocking really…

  • Comment 106, posted at 01.03.11 14:20:45 by rekinek Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition Winner Author
    rekinek
     
  • @catfish (Comment 13) : i do have the same concern. 😐

    I do think that this try of his from Sat was very VERY VERY lucky.

  • Comment 107, posted at 01.03.11 14:23:10 by rekinek Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition Winner Author
    rekinek
     
  • @Ice (Comment 95) : Its not true, that rumour is about 4 years old

  • Comment 108, posted at 01.03.11 14:23:10 by Clayton(PJLD) Reply
    Administrator
    Clayton(PJLD)
     
  • @wade (Comment 18) : i agree with you that Jantjies overall play (barring the kicking) was very good. The thing is that (and I think Morne touches on it) now he’ll have in his mind “we would win the game if only i did not mess these kicks”. I don’t think this would necessarily be true the Stormers picked themselves up at the end and they would probably do more if more was required of them to win. All I’m saying these things will affect Jantjies confidence. I mean what happened to Pienaar with his overall good games but missed kicks..

  • Comment 109, posted at 01.03.11 14:28:37 by rekinek Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition Winner Author
    rekinek
     
  • @VanWilder (Comment 20) : i’m not sure at what stages of their careers they had these dips. I would imagine it is bit more difficult to manage in a young player.

  • Comment 110, posted at 01.03.11 14:35:20 by rekinek Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition Winner Author
    rekinek
     
  • @ Claytie HE’S ALIVE!!!! 😆

  • Comment 111, posted at 01.03.11 14:35:52 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
     
  • Nah it was just the heading – Poles apart.

    Re SB, I think I am 12th, and that was after bombing out on the first 2 games last week. Still alive in LMS -thank you Stormers.

  • Comment 112, posted at 01.03.11 14:37:22 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the Subtle
     
  • One has to remember that one of the differences between Pat and Elton is the on field support that they have during the game. Pat is surrounded by players who have vast experience. The number of caps, at CC level, super level and national level is huge.

    Elton on the other hand, has now played 2 super games, about the same as half the team. He doesn’t really have the same backup.

    Swop them around, put Pat in the Lions, and Elton in the sharks. Do you think the results would be the same?

  • Comment 113, posted at 01.03.11 14:38:57 by Greg Reply

    Greg
     
  • @Salmonoid (Comment 112) : i’m out of LMS and very far down the ladder in all SB competitions (nowhere near my last year form – I emphatise with Elton :mrgreen:

  • Comment 114, posted at 01.03.11 14:41:15 by rekinek Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition Winner Author
    rekinek
     
  • @rekinek (Comment 114) : 😀

  • Comment 115, posted at 01.03.11 14:46:52 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the Subtle
     
  • @Ice (Comment 95) :

    Not true!!

    I mean East Coast radio is the source.

    We all know nothing good ever comes from East Coast!! 😈 :mrgreen:

  • Comment 116, posted at 01.03.11 14:49:30 by wpw Reply
    Author
    wpw
     
  • @Ice (Comment 111) :

    The Rock will kick Cena’s ass anyday!! 😎

  • Comment 117, posted at 01.03.11 14:50:36 by wpw Reply
    Author
    wpw
     
  • @rekinek (Comment 110) : yip, its also true. Monre`s was about 2 seasons ago. i can remember him kicking 2 out of 7 at Kings Park in a CC game. Carter had a bit of trouble last year, so all of them was pretty much settled when the dips struck them. should be alot more difficult for a youngster.

  • Comment 118, posted at 01.03.11 14:57:47 by VanWilder Reply

    VanWilder
     
  • @wpw (Comment 117) : I can’t stand WWE or WWF whatever it’s called. I can’t have my intelligence insulted like that. 🙄

  • Comment 119, posted at 01.03.11 14:58:46 by Pokkel Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Author
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 96) : Selbstverständlich!

  • Comment 120, posted at 01.03.11 14:58:55 by rhineshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of Rugby
     
  • @wpw (Comment 117) : who are you going to be supporting this evening? Archrivals-United or Torres-stealers-Chelsea?

  • Comment 121, posted at 01.03.11 14:59:06 by VanWilder Reply

    VanWilder
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 75) : jeepers! Got busy with work and next I know I am in the Headmasters office due to offensive lang. Now I get your tone Rob… Do not slay our boys. Understand fully!’Crap’ was a ‘crap’ word to use for a under par perform in my eyes. Apol Lambo. U r still our nr #1. Me and the Robmeister just got our wires crossed

  • Comment 122, posted at 01.03.11 15:00:22 by catfish Reply
    Author
    catfish
     
  • @wpw (Comment 116) : peter grant is from the east coast? 😯 🙄

  • Comment 123, posted at 01.03.11 15:00:55 by VanWilder Reply

    VanWilder
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 119) : Me too. 😐

  • Comment 124, posted at 01.03.11 15:01:12 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @catfish (Comment 122) : not to worry “crap”fish… 😉 😆

  • Comment 125, posted at 01.03.11 15:01:58 by VanWilder Reply

    VanWilder
     
  • @VanWilder (Comment 121) :

    Chelsea of course!! 🙄 😉

    Hope Torres scores the winning goal!!

  • Comment 126, posted at 01.03.11 15:06:44 by wpw Reply
    Author
    wpw
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 124) : I’ll rather watch roundball than WWE…..but that’s not saying much…..I never watch roundball either :mrgreen:

  • Comment 127, posted at 01.03.11 15:11:32 by Pokkel Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Author
     
  • @catfish (Comment 122) : and I apologise for overreacting 🙂

  • Comment 128, posted at 01.03.11 15:21:00 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @rekinek (Comment 107) : sure… But if ur good enough you create your own luck. I was ‘crapped’ out of context. He’s got it all. No doubts about that! I just want everybody to calm down and let him be.

  • Comment 129, posted at 01.03.11 15:28:52 by catfish Reply
    Author
    catfish
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 127) : Likewise. Would rather watch Toulouse Under 72C play Toulon Under 72B at Petangue. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 130, posted at 01.03.11 15:29:12 by rhineshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of Rugby
     
  • Some okes touched on it, and I agree, drop Jano, I don’t think he is doing the Lions any favours at the moment, least of all Elton.

  • Comment 131, posted at 01.03.11 15:37:12 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @Morné (Comment 131) : i actually thought that Jano was good. With Rockot though Elton will not put a foot wrong as he will not have a ball. 🙄

  • Comment 132, posted at 01.03.11 15:40:21 by rekinek Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition Winner Author
    rekinek
     
  • OK, time for me to chip in. I guess you all know where I stand on this one. And I back Morne to the hilt. The headline on this article says it ALL people. At the moment, meaning RIGHT NOW, SuperPat and Elton are on separate planets. That does not mean that Elton can’t get beamed out of whatever funk he is currently in by the proverbial Starship Enterprise. It just means that as things stand, Pat is continuing the upward curve and Elton isn’t. He’s on a bit of a downhill.
    I don’t think anyone here will deny what a great talent Jantjies has, and hell, I even waxed lyrical about it yesterday in my own post on the boy wonder flyhalves of the modern era… BUT… (yes, there’s always one of those when it comes to this subject) even at his best, I do not believe that Elton will be able to outshine Pat at HIS best.
    There is stupid talent (as Morne puts it) and there is ridiculously stupid talent, and then there’s SuperPat. That’s not blowing smoke up anyone’s jacksie or a fluttering of eyelids, just a plain simple truth. I have said it before, and I will say it yet again… Patrick Lambie has the touch of destiny upon his boyish brow. And with careful management and encouragement, when he attains his full potential (note the word “when”, and not the word “if”) we will all be witness to something truly incredible – a once in a generation hyper-ridiculous and completely awe-inspiring talent which puts Elton and his ilk completely in the shade.
    So it is written, so let it be read, ingested and stored in the various cerebellums herein engaged.
    😎

  • Comment 133, posted at 01.03.11 15:43:28 by SharonvanWyk Reply
    Author
    Shaz
     
  • @Ben (Comment 71) : Well actually it wasnt just for that reason ,if you remember correctly it was why he would have an advantage over pat since in my view they are on par, maybe you misinterpreted what I meant. Yes I feel all this criticism is unfair and originates from a slightly alternative venue ,other than just player form and ability on this site in particular ,other sites have other reasons.

  • Comment 134, posted at 01.03.11 15:47:08 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 133) : That’s what a lot of people thought about Fransie Steyn, especially after that awesome game in the monsoon against WP. But this is SA, where talent is rarely nurtured to it’s fullest potential. 🙁

  • Comment 135, posted at 01.03.11 15:49:53 by rhineshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of Rugby
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 73) : i thought the context in which they where used would hold no real depth -my bad words that is lol not the rules

  • Comment 136, posted at 01.03.11 15:59:35 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @Talent (Comment 136) : I like interpreting my rules literally, as you will discover 🙂 They’re all I have to protect me in this mad, bad world 🙂

  • Comment 137, posted at 01.03.11 16:06:14 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @Talent (Comment 134) : What you fail to appreciate is that while you feel that criticism of Jantjies is unfair, others feel that criticism of Pat is equally unfair. Whether that feeling comes from what you term an “alternative venue” or not is neither here nor there. Pat’s supporters have their reasons, as you have yours.
    The article you are taking exception to was written by an impartial observer with no bias whatsoever. His observations carry considerable weight and are based on concrete evidence that suggests your stance to the contrary is anything but impartial.
    You are entitled to your opinion, and I applaud you for arguing it, but the tide of opinion on this subject matter is against you whether you like it or not.
    You seem to feel that you are misinterpreted, and there is a sense of the hard-done by in your prose. Might I humbly suggest that the reason for this is that you do not seem to possess any appreciation of or apparent empathy with levity?
    Perhaps if you were slightly more open to the opinions of others instead of defending your own so unilaterally you may find things on this site slightly more “fair”?
    Morne has written a great and tellingly accurate post here, it’s a shame you seem unable to appreciate it.

  • Comment 138, posted at 01.03.11 16:08:18 by SharonvanWyk Reply
    Author
    Shaz
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 138) : genade!! :schock: 😆

  • Comment 139, posted at 01.03.11 16:16:20 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
     
  • @rhineshark (Comment 135) : I disagree completely. Are you trying to tell me that Francois Pienaar’s talent was not nurtured to its full potential? Has Morne Steyn not reached his full potential? Victor Matfield? Fourie du Preez? Did Percy not reach his full potential.
    Do not make the mistake of thinking that politics in this country holds back real talent based on the fact that Francois Steyn, for whatever reason, took his particular (and in my book questionable) talent elsewhere.
    This country has produced some of the finest rugby talents the world has yet seen, even in its darkest hours. I truly believe it will continue to do so and that real and lasting talent like SuperPat’s transcends any political agendas. 😎

  • Comment 140, posted at 01.03.11 16:17:08 by SharonvanWyk Reply
    Author
    Shaz
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 140) : I reckon Morne Steyn is playing just a little bit above his potential at the moment 🙂

  • Comment 141, posted at 01.03.11 16:24:53 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 138) : Okay well understand I am a Sharks supporter first of all secondly I never stated my preference for Jantjies even if it seemed I may have a preference for him. Regarding the article I feel as if if we agree to it then we are contradicting ourselves, what i mean is that if by Mornes standards Jantjies is off form or whatever then by the same standards Bismarc must be and John Smit and Steff T becuase he has a 0% ratio. Another thing I have a problem with is when people become like Green Street Hooligans and it becomes more about the team you support than the actuall rugby spoken on this forum. So lets talk rugby ,other than Jantjies kicking why is he not on form? Oh and he looks fat from my t.v doesnt hold any water

    @SharonvanWyk (Comment 140) : I said something similar to youre last sentence and people took offence to it 😕

  • Comment 142, posted at 01.03.11 16:30:19 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 140) : Not what I’m saying at all and I’m not talking about politics. The guys who reach their full potential sometimes do so despite the structures, not because of it.

    There will always be those that are destined for greatness, but there are many more that could reach the same heights with the right management and mentorship.

    The talent we have in SA is insane, yet we have a very average overall win record against countries like Australia and New Zealand, who have a fraction of our player numbers at their disposal.

    Why?

  • Comment 143, posted at 01.03.11 16:30:43 by rhineshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of Rugby
     
  • @Talent (Comment 142) : Talent, please will you email me ([email protected]) so we can get all of this straightened out and be a happy family going forward?

  • Comment 144, posted at 01.03.11 16:36:12 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @rhineshark (Comment 143) : Coaching and lack of rugby smarts in our attacking play ,we muscle it ,we run over not arround -things will change we are seeing teams like the sharks and lions playing a distinctly NZ flavour of rugby

  • Comment 145, posted at 01.03.11 16:37:45 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 144) : Rob I use my parents email . I am a varsity student ,i dont wish to use that to chat ,perhaps I could chat over FB or even create a new acc and email you then?

  • Comment 146, posted at 01.03.11 16:40:47 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @Talent (Comment 145) : Exactly. And that all boils down to how we teach the kids to play from the word go. There is a massive difference in how NZ schoolboys are coached and how their systems work, compared to ours.

    In SA we play age-group rugby, so boys who develop earlier or are simply bigger learn to run over the smaller guys, but we seem to think that’s OK as they’re all the same age.

    In NZ they play against one another according to weight categories, so they are forced to be clever, because from an early age they realise you can’t bash through everybody.

    This means their mindsets about running into space is created early on. It seems our player only start learning that when they get to provincial levels, but by then it’s a coaching issue, not natural instinct.

  • Comment 147, posted at 01.03.11 16:47:24 by rhineshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of Rugby
     
  • @rhineshark (Comment 147) : I agree 100%

  • Comment 148, posted at 01.03.11 16:51:51 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @Talent (Comment 146) : sign up for Gmail – easiest thing in the world.

  • Comment 149, posted at 01.03.11 16:55:39 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • Any how I have to go ,the Lions vs Stormers game is on ,going to see if i missed anything 😡 ehh
    Keep well xx

  • Comment 150, posted at 01.03.11 16:56:05 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 149) : Will do boss 🙂

  • Comment 151, posted at 01.03.11 16:56:35 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @Talent (Comment 146) :
    Oh Lord, I was debating with someone who uses their parents’ email addy. 😯 😳

    Can I get arrested for that? I didn’t know at the time! 🙁

  • Comment 152, posted at 01.03.11 16:58:27 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big Fish
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 152) : Being young does not make u stupid.

  • Comment 153, posted at 01.03.11 17:04:24 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 152) : Being young does not make u stupid. Perhaps not wise, yet.

  • Comment 154, posted at 01.03.11 17:04:59 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 152) : @Ice (Comment 154) : I got this one, troops… 😮

  • Comment 155, posted at 01.03.11 17:10:20 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • Run Talent, run – the oldies are closing down :mrgreen: 😉

  • Comment 156, posted at 01.03.11 17:28:09 by rekinek Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition Winner Author
    rekinek
     
  • @rekinek (Comment 156) : hey! I am coming up for him! 😉 You youngsters! 😉

  • Comment 157, posted at 01.03.11 17:37:55 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
     
  • @Ice (Comment 157) : 😳 I finished varsity quite some time ago 😉

  • Comment 158, posted at 01.03.11 17:42:14 by rekinek Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition Winner Author
    rekinek
     
  • @Talent (Comment 148) : Maybe this time the lions will win 🙂

  • Comment 159, posted at 01.03.11 17:42:34 by franshark Reply
    Author
    Franshark
     
  • My wife says I’m not reading enough, i just red a post and more than 150 comments, i think thats enough……..

  • Comment 160, posted at 01.03.11 17:46:24 by franshark Reply
    Author
    Franshark
     
  • @franshark (Comment 160) : 😆 I don’t think so – you should go to another thread . I see Stormers vs Lions has 185 comments …

  • Comment 161, posted at 01.03.11 17:50:37 by rekinek Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition Winner Author
    rekinek
     
  • @franshark (Comment 160) : sometimes they just don’t understand 🙂

  • Comment 162, posted at 01.03.11 17:58:03 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @rhineshark (Comment 147) : OK, I understand now where you are coming from. @rhineshark (Comment 143) : And ditto. I remember a thread along these lines a while back, and agree that it’s something that needs to be addressed across the board, especially the issue of age versus weight categories.
    But in as much as we produce the talent on the field, do we not also produce it off the field in terms of coaching and support infrastructure? There must be a reason why teams like the Bulls have achieved so much in recent years and it must all boil down to the strength (and, ergo, weaknesses) of the unions themselves.
    Without going into a debate about coaching/support at the national level (hey, that’s a WHOLE other thread!) what is happening at provincial levels in terms of engaging schools, handpicking the crop of talent each season, bringing them on, academies etc? And I am asking the question honestly, because I am not exactly Rugby Brain of SA 2010.
    Should we not be pouring as much into bringing our coaching and support systems up to a “global” scratch as we do into bringing on talent (or at least the talent lucky enough to be identified.)?

  • Comment 163, posted at 01.03.11 17:58:17 by SharonvanWyk Reply
    Author
    Shaz
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 162) : Understand what, oh leader? I battle to get my son to read more than three paragraphs, even if it’s Clarkson (who he adores). If it isn’t flickering on a screen, forget it! Drives me batty!

  • Comment 164, posted at 01.03.11 18:01:27 by SharonvanWyk Reply
    Author
    Shaz
     
  • @rekinek (Comment 161) : On the other hand it might not be about how much, it might be what I’m reading……

  • Comment 165, posted at 01.03.11 18:01:48 by franshark Reply
    Author
    Franshark
     
  • @Ice (Comment 157) : Whippersnappers, all of em.

  • Comment 166, posted at 01.03.11 18:02:23 by SharonvanWyk Reply
    Author
    Shaz
     
  • @franshark (Comment 165) : Hmmm. Quality not quantity. The eternal debate. But if it’s SW, then the missus shouldn’t worry, coz we’re BIG on quality!!!

  • Comment 167, posted at 01.03.11 18:03:45 by SharonvanWyk Reply
    Author
    Shaz
     
  • 😉

  • Comment 168, posted at 01.03.11 18:05:09 by rekinek Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition Winner Author
    rekinek
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 166) : excluding Jantjies :mrgreen: allegedly 🙄

  • Comment 169, posted at 01.03.11 18:05:29 by rekinek Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition Winner Author
    rekinek
     
  • @rekinek (Comment 169) : 😆 He’s a good kid. Just in a bit of a funk at the mo. Hope he snaps out of it soon! Preferably after the Sharks slaughter the Lions.

  • Comment 170, posted at 01.03.11 18:14:47 by SharonvanWyk Reply
    Author
    Shaz
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 170) : although the slaughter would be so much sweeter if it took place with him playing 100% 😈

  • Comment 171, posted at 01.03.11 18:16:58 by rekinek Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition Winner Author
    rekinek
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 155) :
    Slow your roll there pardner – I was just joking with the wee laddie.

    No offence intended, Talent.

  • Comment 172, posted at 01.03.11 18:22:08 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big Fish
     
  • @rekinek (Comment 171) : Most assuredly! 😈 😎

  • Comment 173, posted at 01.03.11 18:29:02 by SharonvanWyk Reply
    Author
    Shaz
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 172) : 🙂

  • Comment 174, posted at 01.03.11 18:55:31 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 164) : I hate reading. Can’t see why you would do that if the real smart people already invented tv’s! 🙂

  • Comment 175, posted at 01.03.11 19:13:37 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Ben
     
  • @Ben (Comment 175) : Ha ha! Speaking of which, it’s time for Chuck. Catch all of you on the flip side… TTFN 😀

  • Comment 176, posted at 01.03.11 19:18:58 by SharonvanWyk Reply
    Author
    Shaz
     
  • You lot get a bit worked up today ❓

  • Comment 177, posted at 01.03.11 19:37:04 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 177) : who me? Never 🙂

  • Comment 178, posted at 01.03.11 19:44:25 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 178) :

    Lol. You still in the land of the hairy arms?

  • Comment 179, posted at 01.03.11 19:56:35 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 177) :

    Bwahahaha, thats why I am keeping my distance here.

    Just a quick comment, someone mentioned the name Frans Steyn in here as a counter argument to something.

    Please let it be known, I like Frans Steyn, I have never rated him, not in the context we are talking about here, and definitely not the players being discussed here in Elton and Pat.

  • Comment 180, posted at 01.03.11 20:03:34 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • A guy who is rated solely for his skill of sinking the odd long-drop (pun intended for all those that went to army), does not quite hold par with the talent discussed above.

  • Comment 181, posted at 01.03.11 20:05:15 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @Morné (Comment 181) :

    Lol. Reminds me of a certain supersport commentator that would never, ever, in his wildest dreams, make it as a professional player today…

    *cast*…

  • Comment 182, posted at 01.03.11 20:13:03 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 182) :

    You know what the worst part of that is…

    Reunion, the Boots & All version for NZ has him as the Saffa ‘expert’ giving his views every week…

  • Comment 183, posted at 01.03.11 20:48:33 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @Morné (Comment 183) : Of whom do you speak? Or is it top secret? 😀

  • Comment 184, posted at 01.03.11 21:28:35 by SharonvanWyk Reply
    Author
    Shaz
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 179) : sim

  • Comment 185, posted at 02.03.11 09:38:25 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 163) : Not easy to answer, but I reckon it all comes back to the weight-group vs age-group debate, because there has to be a reason why NZ consistently produces good players, who later become good coaches.

    Somehow that doesn’t happen in SA and we end up having to coach people to become coaches. Too often unsuccessfully so.

  • Comment 186, posted at 02.03.11 11:07:58 by rhineshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of Rugby
     
  • @Morné (Comment 181) : The shock of long-drop single-handedly sinking WP must have caused some amnesia as to what the kid was capable of before he became overrated. And with a snot-glad ball nogal. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 187, posted at 02.03.11 11:13:02 by rhineshark Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Spirit of Rugby
     

Add Comment

You must be logged in to post a comment.