Morné

If nothing changes, expect the same results


Written by Morné Nortier (Morné)

Posted in :Original Content on 3 Mar 2011 at 10:52
Tagged with : , , ,

When I try to define leadership, I can only do it in one way, inspiration.

Rugby union is a sport which deals with many dynamics.  Many of you that have read my views on the game will remember that I point to this quite often in an attempt to try and define something which is hard to understand for the normal, but passionate supporters out there.

A lot of things in rugby when considering the different levels it is played at also changes, like the environment from an amateur club setup, to one of a professional union.  But there are certain fundamental aspects of rugby that does not change, and one of these is the ability for players, coaches and management to inspire those around them.

Some believe leadership skills can be taught, but I lean more towards the belief that it is a quality you either have or don’t.

I have said a lot about the Stormers and Western Province management over recent years, most of which was accepted and supported by the majority of readers probably because they were so utterly crap!  It is however in recent times that supporters of this team seemed to take exception to my criticism of the union, which I would guess, is due to their success in 2010, where they reached the finals of both the Super 14 and the Currie Cup.

I may believe that my criticism has not changed one iota over the years, but the general reactions I get these days seem to suggest it did.

In 2006 I wrote, the Stormers/WP will not win anything until they implement structures that will sustain success.

In 2007 I wrote, the Stormers/WP will not win anything until they implement structures that will sustain success.

In 2008… you get the picture.

I can only give my views on what I witness, and hear first hand, so when I wrote in 2011 that the Stormers/WP will not win anything until they implement structures that will sustain success, I was referring to the same thing as I did back in 2006.

Last night I saw the Western Province Vodacom Cup side to take on the Falcons this weekend.  At first I just skipped the email but just before I closed it I thought I witnessed an interesting name, I re-opened it, and confirmed what I thought I saw.

Now I have said my bit on Lionel Cronje a couple of weeks ago, so I am not going to re-visit that.  But when I saw his name next to the number 15 on the team sheet I was again reminded why Western Province, or the Stormers will not win anything until they implement structures to sustain success.

The difference between successful player development, and desperation (in selections and player management), are succession plans.  With a succession plan you, as a coach, instil confidence in a player whose road ahead has been mapped out for him.  Throughout this process you will speed things up, and slow things down depending on the situation.  You will take risks, but they will be calculated.

I have written a lot about leadership and captaincy in recent years, and how important that is in my personal opinion and experience.  What we, including myself tend to forget however, is that the most important captain or leader in any rugby setup, at any level, is the coach.  If he does not lead, inspire and gain the trust of his players through his actions and words, you can expect a lot of pain.

From 2006 I have bitched about at least one player, every year, that seems to suffer (and is ultimately lost) because of the lack of leadership from the management of the union.  A couple of years back I would have mentioned the name of Derrick Hougaard perhaps, or even Francois Hougaard, or any of the youngster I saw playing for the successful U/19 or U/21’s teams now running out for other unions.  It carries the same weight, or makes the same point when I now mention the names of Lionel Cronje, or Conrad Hoffman.

It is not about the players, who I rate and who I don’t, they are simply victims of the system, a system that seemingly refuses to acknowledge and accept that apart from proper structures required for sustained success, they need people to drive these systems, leaders, men who inspire.

The Stormers will do relatively well this year, fortunately, or rather, unfortunately, the sheer volume of talent available in the Western Cape is enough to hide the glaring shortcomings of the union and its management.

But for those supporters who yearn for the successes they enjoyed in the mid-80’s, or the same dominance teams like the Sharks or Bulls enjoyed in recent years, I am afraid you are in for a whole lot of pain, which from where I sit, will continue for some time to come.

And as for those who will point to the two finals they achieved in 2010 as a benchmark or turn-around into the team’s fortunes, I will point to a trophy cabinet which will show you a lot of age-group cups (but who have now left or is lost in the system), and some other useless pieces of silverware like the Choice Cup…


69 Comments

  • If nothing change then expect a grammar lesson. 🙂

    If something changes then expect nothing. 🙂

  • Comment 1, posted at 03.03.11 11:10:23 by KSA Shark © Reply
    KSA Shark ©
     
  • I admire the honesty and introspective views about your union, and must say I have to agree. The Stormers will do well this year, who can say what will happen post World Cup when the bulk of the team, the sails of the ship if you will, decide to leave. Will an exodus of players kill the union and leave the weak skeletal system exposed? I hope not.

  • Comment 2, posted at 03.03.11 11:37:45 by Talent Reply
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    Talent
     
  • Great article Morne!!

    I can’t believe they are playing Lionel Cronje at fullback.

    From SA U20 Player of the Year to nowhere in less than a year!!

    Thanks Rassie, Coetzee and co!! 🙄

  • Comment 3, posted at 03.03.11 11:43:14 by wpw Reply
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    wpw
     
  • Yep, and the more things change, the more they stay the same it appears…

  • Comment 4, posted at 03.03.11 11:43:15 by Crock Reply

    Crock
     
  • @Crock (Comment 4) :

    I already used that line as my heading about the Stormers last year… Or was it the year before??? 😈

  • Comment 5, posted at 03.03.11 11:44:36 by Morné Reply
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    Morné
     
  • What happened to rassie’s “great insights, ideas and fresh coaching style” that everyone applauded while he was at the cheetahs?

  • Comment 6, posted at 03.03.11 11:44:56 by Crock Reply

    Crock
     
  • @Crock (Comment 6) :

    Depends who you refer to as everyone.

    Ask the guys that were at the Cheetahs at the time and they might offer a different view.

  • Comment 7, posted at 03.03.11 11:48:28 by Morné Reply
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    Morné
     
  • And while we are reiterating points previously made…buy a bloody front row WPRU.

  • Comment 8, posted at 03.03.11 11:54:01 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 8) :

    We don’t need a front row… we need centres and wingers!!

    Oh wait… 🙄

  • Comment 9, posted at 03.03.11 11:58:29 by wpw Reply
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    wpw
     
  • @Salmonoid (Comment 8) : Hey now that SARU have realised being a good FR doesn’t mean you are a good scrum coach and the Cheetahs scrum is being penalised more than any other scrum under the samme coach. The Stormers can offer him the FR coach position.

  • Comment 10, posted at 03.03.11 12:17:02 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©
     
  • @wpw (Comment 9) :
    One would think that the message would finally sink in that when that great backline cant get onto the front foot whenever they play a team with a more dominant scrum that maybe its because of that ripple effect pressure now on the half backs thats causing the problem.

  • Comment 11, posted at 03.03.11 12:18:17 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 11) :

    One would what?

  • Comment 12, posted at 03.03.11 12:20:51 by Morné Reply
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    Morné
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 10) :
    That should appeal to WPRU – having 2 scrum coaches, can employ them as player/coaches and make them really earn their money.

  • Comment 13, posted at 03.03.11 12:22:09 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 7) : True that. never thought of it that way.

    Perhaps its because everyone (mostly) refer to the Cheetahs as their second team, and when Rassie was there, they thought “Oh, good for them, and good for Rassie, and you know, he is such a nice guy. Look at them beating the Bulls under Rassie’s coaching”. Now that reality has set in, a different perspective is visible.

  • Comment 14, posted at 03.03.11 12:22:19 by Crock Reply

    Crock
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 10) : @Salmonoid (Comment 11) : those 2 comments make my fl prediction brilliant and stoopid depending on the result

  • Comment 15, posted at 03.03.11 12:23:05 by Rahul Reply

    Rahul
     
  • @Morné (Comment 12) : Ill answer/repaet the answer on 03/03/2012 – watch this space.

  • Comment 16, posted at 03.03.11 12:25:43 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 12) : On the point of succession funnily enough I thought WP did more to further the cause of their youngsters than the Sharks did in 2010. u21 players Koster, Hartzenberg, Elstadt, van Aswegen, Engelbrecht and Cronje (probably others as well) were all given a chance at senoir level in 2010. The Sharks only managed to give Cooper game time but even this decision was the result of other hookers not being available rather than a succession plan. Then again the Sharks seem to have plenty of back up in the former of players aged 22-26, whereas the Stormers seem to have an unexplained shortage of quality players in this age group despite having the luxuries of 2 top varsities and 4 of the best 7 rugby schools in SA at their disposal.

    I also think the Lionel Cronje example is starting to sound more like an exception than a norm. At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist I think there is more to his “fallout” with the coaches than meets the eye. But its also possible that he turns out to be the next Gaffie du Toit – a player who can wear the no.10 and do well in the position on his day but is better off away from the big decision-making role.

  • Comment 17, posted at 03.03.11 12:43:05 by beet Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 7) :

    I don’t think WP was as impressed either. That’s why they “promoted” him.

    Director of Rugby – The ideal position for a failed coach with contract.

  • Comment 18, posted at 03.03.11 14:36:32 by fyndraai Reply
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  • So WP/Stormers (all teams) go from not winning much or anything to just about winning everything except the two big ones where they at least made the finals.

    How is that a bad thing? Miles ahead of where they were just 3 or so season ago. And all that without a plan. 😛

  • Comment 19, posted at 03.03.11 14:46:04 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • And far too much being made of this Cronje kid.

    So things didn’t work out for him. His not the first nor will he be the last junior star not to make it in the big leagues.

    Surely he’s not blameless.

  • Comment 20, posted at 03.03.11 14:48:10 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • How many of the guys that won the age group cups last year, and are still eligible for age group rugby, have left WP or ‘are lost in the system’ whatever that means?

    And how does it compare to other unions?

  • Comment 21, posted at 03.03.11 14:53:41 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 20) : @McLovin (Comment 20) :
    If Im not mistake WP juniors have mostly been there or thereabouts, if not winning finals then at least contesting them – what happened to those players?

  • Comment 22, posted at 03.03.11 15:13:00 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 22) : Went to the Bulls and Sharks. 😉 :mrgreen:

  • Comment 23, posted at 03.03.11 15:35:22 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 23) : But that’s OK, we gave them Grant, and what do they do? Send him to Japan! 😯

  • Comment 24, posted at 03.03.11 15:36:09 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 22) : Don’t know. What happens to other unions juniors? Do they all go from under 21 to the seniors or vodacom cup? Where do the senior players then go?

    Players obviosly remain in the senior ranks much longer than junior ranks. So it’s simply impossible to keep all your junior players who are no longer eligible for junior rugby but who where the season before.

    WP picked 5 juniors, I think, for a super rugby match last week, but somehow that wasn’t good enough either.

    How many juniors get selected for say the Bulls super rugby squad each year?

    The popular opinion is/was always that WP juniors don’t make use of local talent. Last season I posted some stats on this very site which showed it to be absolute nonsense as the vast majority of their age group players were from local schools.

  • Comment 25, posted at 03.03.11 15:38:25 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • Poor Lionel Cronje pushed from pillar to post.

    WP can take heart from the fact that their team is now playing in Finals, but as so many Bulls fans loved to say to me in the time between 1996 and 2008. No one remembers number 2.

    So until they can win something, so what!

    I’m afraid that WP have started to breed the mercenary culture where they have brought so many guys in from other unions for a high pay cheque that they ultimately don’t care about the jersey.

    Unfortunately, it was something that the Sharks suffered from for a lengthy period and it’s only been recently that it has shifted away from it, I believe.

    For every Schalk (or is that Sulk?) Burger in WP, there is a player like Habana who was lured down to the Cape with a large cheque.

  • Comment 26, posted at 03.03.11 16:19:28 by Butchie34 Reply
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  • @McLovin (Comment 25) :
    Are you happy with your scrum, have you been happy with it the last few seasons, if you answered no have you seen any real plan to address the faults.

    I know I go on about the Stormers/WP scrum but to me that is the single biggest reason that the Stormers/WP were made to look stupid in both finals they played in last year. Its a problem that is glaringly obvious and has been for years already. I can guarantee you that I am technically and analytically one of the weakest bloggers here but even I can see where the stumbling block is.

  • Comment 27, posted at 03.03.11 16:24:20 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Butchie34 (Comment 26) :
    I personally dont have any objection to buying in but then at least buy what is necessary, dont go and buy what is already in oversupply and dont ever overpay for what you are buying.

  • Comment 28, posted at 03.03.11 16:27:42 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Dancing Bear (Comment 24) :
    Hi DB, and then realise his value to them.

  • Comment 29, posted at 03.03.11 16:30:21 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 28) : That’s it. I think it’s a situation the Stormers have done to themselves. They’ve brought in Naqalavuki, Habana and Fourie in the last few years and hampered the development of their own youth.

    It must be horrible being a wing in the WP because it’s almost as though you can see you aren’t rated at all.

    They paid a huge amount for Fourie but have one of the rising stars in De Jongh who has to pick up splinters on the bench. Not to mention their other centres like Whitehead, et al.

  • Comment 30, posted at 03.03.11 16:39:37 by Butchie34 Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 27) : It does appear as if WP are not doing anything about their front row. But how do we know that their not actively looking?

    Where are the available props? Significantly better than the current first choice that is. Might be plenty better props about but are they in the market?

    They have bought CJ and although not everyone’s favourite it’s still a prop bought. Plus I believe they have two top quality youngsters coming through the ranks.

  • Comment 31, posted at 03.03.11 17:40:50 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @Butchie34 (Comment 30) : Kallie Woekie was a waste of money.

    Habana has yet to prove his worth but I’d like to believe he’ll come right sooner rather than later. Still a good buy imo.

    Fourie is a sound investment. A great buy imo, providing he doesn’t pick up any major injuries. Don’t think de Jongh had properly hit the big time yet when they bought Fourie.

    I feel for de Jongh but he’s sitting behind the best 13 in the country and one of the best in the world. His time will come. Also he can cover both 12 & 13. Hopefully WP make it worth his while to stay put.

  • Comment 32, posted at 03.03.11 17:46:31 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @Butchie34 (Comment 26) : Nonsense old chap. Fourie & Habana are the only big buys WP have made. And maybe CJ.

    How many others in the current squad were lured there with ‘a large cheque’?

  • Comment 33, posted at 03.03.11 17:49:13 by McLovin Reply

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  • @McLovin (Comment 33) : These are some of the guys I can think of, some of them past their prime now but nevertheless big signings at the time of acquisition:

    Tian Liebenberg (Griquas)
    Adriaan Fondse (Bulls)
    Anton van Zyl (Lions)
    Duane Vermeulen (Vrystaat)
    Ricky Januarie (Lions)
    Conrad Jantjies (Lions)

    Schalk Brits, Big Joe, Willem de Waal and Gerrie Britz are some of the active players who’ve since moved on.

  • Comment 34, posted at 03.03.11 19:26:46 by beet Reply
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  • @beet (Comment 34) : They were certainly not all big money.

    Van Zyl for instance wanted to move back to Cape Town and WP accommodated him. He’s from the Cape after all.

    Liebenberg was certainly not a big money signing. He was signed from Griquas for goodness sake and nowhere near the Bok team.

    Ditto Fondse. Might have come from the Bulls but that’s about it.

    Januarie first played for Boland.

    So none of the above can be considered mercenaries and I’d be surprised if any of them we offered anywhere near what Fourie and Habana are on.

    Schalk Brits went to Paul Roos and Maties and played for WP before he went to Jozi.

    Willem de Waal went to school in the Boland and played for Maties.

    How any of these can be considered mercenaries or some even big money signings is beyond me. 🙄

  • Comment 35, posted at 03.03.11 19:47:54 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 35) :
    I also doubt they command the salary of Fourie but they could not have come that cheaply either. A guy like Van Zyl could easily have followed a few of his former team mates to Europe.

  • Comment 36, posted at 03.03.11 20:04:01 by beet Reply
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  • @beet (Comment 36) : Few off them would have been offered above average salaries.

    And again, Van Zyl wanted to return to Cape Town. Where he’s from. Took no special effort or salary from WP to sign him. 🙂

  • Comment 37, posted at 03.03.11 20:16:58 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 35) :

    Wow okay…

    Beet named 10 okes there, 10 that played in the most senior team within WP/Stormers in just the last 2 or 3 years.

    Whether they originated from the Cape is not the issue, they did not progress through the union ranks and were bought from other unions.

    Not forgetting how Hoffman was talked up as the next best thing at 10 only for WP to import that other Aussie from the Brumbies…

    Those are 10 names in about 2 years, bought, not developed, who represented the union at the highest level.

    Dude if that is not trying to buy a cup then I don’t know what is.

    As an example, compare that to who the Bulls have bought since 2007 who represented them at senior level (CC & S14)…

    But I made my point, I am moving on and will probably take this up with you after Round 18 of the Super 15…

  • Comment 38, posted at 03.03.11 20:18:02 by Morné Reply
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    Morné
     
  • So certain Sharks supporters have a lot to say about WP not winning any trophies of late!
    You guys have won 2 freakin CC trophies since 1997! That’s 2 trophies in 13 years! 🙄

  • Comment 39, posted at 03.03.11 20:26:55 by wpw Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 38) : My point is that few of those 10 players are ‘high profile’ players or were when they were signed.

    What about the other 20/30 players in the squad, where did they come from?

    Are they not allowed to add to there squad?

    And just for the record, as I’ve mentioned more than once on here, I don’t think Stormers will get into the top 2 of our conference or into the play-offs even.

    Not because they’re worse than last season, but simply due to the way the comp is now structured.

  • Comment 40, posted at 03.03.11 20:32:30 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @wpw (Comment 39) : don’t worry about delusional sharks fans mate

  • Comment 41, posted at 03.03.11 20:35:57 by Megatron Reply

    Megatron
     
  • Just to re-affirm.

    Players names and whoever we name digress from the point I did try to make.

    My issue with the union is succession plans with players, of which there are none.

    I will applaud the selection of 5 juniors in a Stormers team like we saw last week, if it formed part of the bigger plan or a plan that has been worked on for a couple of months even, not years.

    When I asked coaching last year which players we need to look out for (for the Super rugby season), not one of the players that got selected were mentioned, not one…

  • Comment 42, posted at 03.03.11 20:36:29 by Morné Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 39) : Admittedly I’d be happy if they’d share last place with the Bulls every year but fortunately I’m not criticising WP. It is an interesting topic tho’. The W/Cape is a tropical rainforest and KZN is like a man-made oasis in the desert when it comes to rugby talent. Yet we boast 2 more trophies than WP in recent years? There is some explaining to do.

  • Comment 43, posted at 03.03.11 20:36:37 by beet Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 42) : You don’t expect Rassie to be giving out his secrets to you now do you? 😈 😉

  • Comment 44, posted at 03.03.11 20:39:42 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @Morné (Comment 42) : How do we measure planning?

    Was Lambie’s debut planned. Or Hougaard at wing for the Bulls? Surely the Bulls picking a young scrumhalf at wing shows poor planning and desperation on their part. Or does that only apply to WP? 😈

  • Comment 45, posted at 03.03.11 20:41:55 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 40) :

    I believe success comes through planning, nothing more, nothing less, and I have seen none of that with the Stormers/WP.

    The reason we see the likes of Elstadt, Poolman, Gary, etc. coming into the fold now is not because of the planning that took place with these players, it is quite simply that WP has such as wealth of talent that in case of emergency, they can break glass.

    But it is sure as hell not planning.

    And planning, will have you dominate the likes the Bulls have done in the last 8 years.

  • Comment 46, posted at 03.03.11 20:42:20 by Morné Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 46) : Apologies if I sound like a broken record, but why when WP select a youngster who has come through the ranks does it not count as planning?

    So other than the Bulls, there’s no planning at other unions?

  • Comment 47, posted at 03.03.11 20:48:12 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 47) :

    No worries, I just think that I am viewing this from an unfair perspective. When I chat to someone like Ian from the Bulls, and anyone from the Stormers, there is just a sense of night and day if you get my meaning – but that is unfair to try and relate into an article.

    I think importantly, I am as passionate a Stormers supporter as the next oke, and the one thing me and you want to see is a successful team, I just believe we are not on the right path, of course, that does not make me right and time will tell, and deep down, I hope you are right in fact.

  • Comment 48, posted at 03.03.11 20:56:55 by Morné Reply
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  • Just as an extra bit of trivia.

    Of the 35 super rugby squad players listed on the Stormers site, 24 have been there since under 19 or under 21 days.

    And of those 24 about 15 have been there since they were in nappies.

  • Comment 49, posted at 03.03.11 21:13:31 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @Morné (Comment 48) : Not sure anymore what right is. 😆

  • Comment 50, posted at 03.03.11 21:16:38 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 50) :

    I will take the credit for that! 😉

  • Comment 51, posted at 03.03.11 21:45:12 by Morné Reply
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  • @McLovin (Comment 31) :
    The poor front row is not a new thing, its been around for a few years now so in light of that I doubt the union had present u19 props in mind. As to available props – Eugene van Staden would have been an option.

  • Comment 52, posted at 04.03.11 09:05:45 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 52) : Who? 😈 😉

  • Comment 53, posted at 04.03.11 09:13:43 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 35) :
    Mentioning all those guys who are originally from the Cape actually goes a long way in proving that there is a lack of planning in the union. The question is if they had been identified as having potential why were they let go in the first place. It should not be necessary to have to buy back your own players. Its obvious that they were identified as having something special – only not by their home union – and that is a big part of the problem.

  • Comment 54, posted at 04.03.11 09:15:27 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @McLovin (Comment 53) :
    Some other chap, hes also from the Cape. 🙄

  • Comment 55, posted at 04.03.11 09:17:28 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 54) : They will never be able to keep everyone and/or please everyone.

    There will always be some players who slip through the net.

    Exactly the same as players who don’t make the cut in SA but then go overseas and become stars.

  • Comment 56, posted at 04.03.11 09:23:54 by McLovin Reply

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  • @McLovin (Comment 56) :
    True, but that net has pretty big holes.

    Regarding overseas players, I cant think of one that has made their name there, not having previously having played first class rugby here.

  • Comment 57, posted at 04.03.11 09:45:19 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 57) : I’m talking guys who might have made it to provincial rugby but where not always first choice or where but got dropped later on and then made a name overseas.

    Whether that’s being stars for their club sides or even playing test rugby. Like Fourie, the flank who plays for England for instance. Mike Catt years ago. I’m sure there’s an ‘Italian’ or three as well.

    And I’m sure there’s a host of others playing club rugby who are household names wherever they are today. Just couldn’t be arsed to go and look it up now. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 58, posted at 04.03.11 09:52:06 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 58) :
    Yeah there are lots of those, but to be honest I cant think of one that any of the Super Rugby teams would be trying to sign.

  • Comment 59, posted at 04.03.11 11:36:05 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 59) : Not sure I understand what you’re getting at? You made no mention of super rugby in your post #57.

    The principle’s remains the same.

    You can’t keep everyone. Some guys leave and make it elsewhere, be that locally or abroad.

    They are not necessarily any better than the guys that stayed put or where bought from elsewhere.

  • Comment 60, posted at 04.03.11 12:13:03 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • And now I have said my peace.

    We will keep going round & round & round till the cows come home, unless we can get stats from every province/super rugby franchise of junior players who stay, leave, make it to super rugby level or fall off the radar, so we can compare apples with apples.

    Without the above some might perceive WP in this case not to be looking after their youngsters for instance, but once we have the numbers to compare it might show a completely different picture.

    Amen 🙂

  • Comment 61, posted at 04.03.11 12:26:10 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 60) :
    Basically Im trying to say that I cant think of one player now playing for another country that I feel we miss in SA. I think we at least identify and develop the best players available at any one time. Considering how Saffas like to spread their wings I think its quiete amazing at how few (if any) talented players leave the country without first going through a province / Super team.

  • Comment 62, posted at 04.03.11 12:38:40 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the Subtle
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 61) : I take it you wont then be taking Morne on when he posts similar articles in the future, pity.
    Amen 😀

  • Comment 63, posted at 04.03.11 12:46:48 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the Subtle
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 61) :
    I actually believe WE are one of the worst for holding on to our youngsters, but that is changing now it seems.

    Not my belief, our ability to hold on to youngsters.

  • Comment 64, posted at 04.03.11 13:14:27 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©
     
  • @KSA Shark © (Comment 64) : I’m in agreement that the Sharks track record has not been the best. I specifically remember two interviews with Plumtree, about two years ago (might be less, my memory isn’t what it something something…), where in the one he stated that one of his big goals for the campaign (again, can’t remember whether it was Super 14 or CC) was to bring one Justin Downey into the squad in a structured way, and in the other where he made a similar statement about the flyhalf Cronje brother. I remember that he was particularly enthused about Justin Downey’s versatility, and Guy/Ross’s (they’re twins, I don’t know which one is which, sue me) time on the ball.

    But OK, enough about past failures; we certainly seem to be heading in the right direction, while all around us it’s all regression, chaos and decay, judging by some of the posts.

  • Comment 65, posted at 04.03.11 13:30:13 by Culling Song Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Culling Song
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 65) : In defence of Plumtree though, with that hairstyle Justin Downey certainly is a better fit with the Province mould… 😈

  • Comment 66, posted at 04.03.11 13:34:25 by Culling Song Reply
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    Culling Song
     
  • @Culling Song (Comment 65) : Guy, the flyhalf. He did well, I thought, but they seemed to drop him like a hot potato.

    Downey, likewise, got about 40 minutes gametime in total, half of which was at lock.

  • Comment 67, posted at 04.03.11 13:53:36 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 67) : Both those players would in my book be justified if they felt hard done by. I’m sure there’s probably a few others if one was to do a bit of digging. Mike Rhodes, maybe? I seem to remember that his ommission, and the inclusion of Anton Bresler in the CC squad at the end of the season also came as a bit of a shock to most people?

    But, as I said before, I’m not here to look for negatives. Fact is, there finally seems to be a consensus within the various levels and arms of the Sharks organisation regarding hierarchy of players, and way forward for the young ‘uns, and that is somthing that warms the cockles of this cold, hard heart. 😉

  • Comment 68, posted at 04.03.11 14:13:37 by Culling Song Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Culling Song
     
  • it would have been nice if we had managed to hold onto one of either Downey or Whiteley

  • Comment 69, posted at 04.03.11 14:30:24 by KSA Shark © Reply

    KSA Shark ©
     

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