If the reports in “The Guardian” is to be believed, then one of the most respected and most capped referees in rugby will be “carded” for the try incident this past weekend.
Reports are that the IRB will issue an apology to Ireland and Jonathan Kaplan and the assistent ref, Peter Allan will be “down-graded”. This incident was where Matthew Reese was allowed to make a quick throw- in resulting Wales’ Mike Philip to score – with the wrong ball.
Law 19, section two, clause C states: ‘For a quick throw-in, the player must use the ball that went into touch. A quick throw-in is not permitted if another person has touched the ball apart from the player throwing it in.
He asked the assistant ref if the correct ball was used. He got an affirmative answer from Allan. That in my books was good enough….but the other camp, despite technology being limited to in-goal decisions, insists Kaplan could have asked the television match official, Geoff Warren, of England: ‘Is there any reason why I cannot award the try?’
“We were robbed,” said Ireland skipper Brian O’Driscoll.
“You have a service available to cover all bases. That’s what the TMO is there for. What’s the point if you don’t use him?
“Everyone is human and wrong calls are made the whole time. That one was a hugely illegitimate try which, in the end, has made all the difference between winning and losing.
“Everyone in the stadium knew the ball had been touched by a ball-boy. It beggars belief. If I was in the wrong on something like that, I’d be embarrassed.”
Now – I am not the rugby-guru, but I have watched the incident…to my knowledge Kaplan did the correct thing under the circumstances.
What is your take on this?
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They are full of crap! The TMO cannot go that far back, he can only review goal line decisions, even if he asks “Is there any reason”
I call this justice for when Smit was told to talk to the Bokke and the Irish took a quick tap with our backs turned.
Suck it Ireland.
stop whinging ireland, you got a free win against the boks when stuart dickenson awarded a try that was scored when time was off. round abouts and slides.
Who or What is the IRU? And why are THEY apologising to the Irish?
think that should be IRB not IRU..
IF Kaplan had asked the TMO then he would not have been able to comment on the ball anyway. The TMO can only advise on anything that happened during the act of scoring the try.
The Irish must get over themselves. next thing we know they will be asking for a rematch like they did when they got knocked out of the Soccer World Cup.
@stevo (Comment 4) : IRA could be good too!
@try time (Comment 2) : That wasn’t Dickenson… it was a Kwiw ref whose name has escaped me for the moment…
Did the Irish say, “okay that try doesn’t count” when they scored against the Springboks while John Smit was talking to the Team?
fuck ’em (I would usually censor that but am so pissed at the arrogant O’drolskil that I have left it uncensored)
@robdylan (Comment 7) : Paul Honiss. I knew I’d get it soon
paul honiss was his name
Cry me a river…BOD… 👿
@stevo (Comment 10) : I beat you to it by 19 seconds 🙂
i see that…you very quick today…
@KSA Shark © (Comment 8) : “O’drolskil” – now THAT is a GEM!!! 😆
@stevo (Comment 13) : it won’t last… never does 🙂
Saw comment from Andre Watson Kaplan not dropped He Kaplan asked for a 2 week break on Tuesday last week which was granted
IRB will not take any action
saw this on 365
“The Irish protested and the referee, Jonathan Kaplan of South Africa, asked his assistant just one question. He asked him twice if it was the correct ball. The assistant, Peter Allan of Scotland, affirmed that it was the correct ball.
Was seeing if it the touch judge’s job to see if it was all right for the ball to be thrown in quickly?
Law 6.B.5 (d) When to lower the flag. When the ball is thrown in, the touch judge or assistant referee must lower the flag, with the following exceptions:
Exception 3: When, at a quick throw-in, the ball that went into touch is replaced by another ball, or after it went into touch or it has been touched by anyone except the player who takes the throw-in, the touch judge or assistant referee keeps the flag up.
It was part of the touch judge’s primary function to keep his flag up to indicate that the ball was not available to be thrown in quickly.
The suggestion that the television match official be consulted is not on at all.
The International Rugby Board has a protocol for how the TMO may or may not be used. On protocol states:
The areas of adjudication are limited to Law 6. 8 (b), 6.8 (d) and 6.8 (e) and therefore relate to:
Grounding of the ball for try and touch down
Touch, touch-in-goal, ball being made dead during the act of grounding the ball.
This includes situations where a player may or may not have stepped in touch in the act of grounding the ball on or over the goal line.
The TMO could therefore be requested to assist the referee in making the following decisions:
Try No try and scrum awarded 5 metres
Touch down by a defender In touch – line-out
Touch-in-goal Ball dead on or over the dead ball line Penalty tries after acts of foul play in in-goal All kicks at goal including dropped goals.
The TMO must not be requested to provide information on players prior to the ball going into in-goal (except touch in the act of grounding the ball). The TMO must not be asked to assist in any other decision other than those listed. The referee must make an effort to make an adjudication. If he is unsighted or has doubt, he will then use the following process (4).
It is clear that the throw in many metres down the field does not fall within that area of jurisdiction allowed in consulting the TMO.
In the case of this try the referee had no right at all to consult the TMO and the TMO had no right at all to make the call”
kappie is a great and highly professional ref who had no ill intent,but seems to get plenty bad press.Any info on this ksa as he was our local no1 but hasnt done a final in a long while??
@Fattmann (Comment 16) : brilliant fattmann proves kappie knows his stuff
@ruggabugga (Comment 18) : he sure does
I’ve always maintained that BOD, regardless of his playing abilities, is a “huildoos”, so too it seems the rest of the Irish… Buggers. I agree, its justice!
Brian Moore (believe it or not) wrote a great piece on this game, told BOD to grow up.
@PTAShark: jip, o ‘driscoll has it wrong when he says (rants?) that “they have a system that covers all bases”.
The system o’discoll is appealing to ,is flawed ( if I have my facts right).
Just a matter of time before we heard from Brain I could have died O’ Driscoll whinging again !
He may be class but he will forever be remembered for the biggest whinger in modern rugby.
Kaplan did what any ref would do, if anything why not point fingers at the Welsh for unsportmanship ..they certainly knew what they were doing ..
Not fair to drag Kaplan into this. He asked the TJ, got an answer, confirmed it and continued with the game.
Now if he had summoned the TMO to make a call then he would also be in the dogbox, this time rightly so.
@CoffeeshopBok: indeed! Good point,missed in the hulaballoo over the “refereeing incident”..the Welsh acted outside of the laws (and therefore,the spirit of the game),they should be brought in-front of the judge.
Same as with the thierry henry incident: why the appeal for tecnology in a case that is all about the character of the player ,individual?the spirit of the game was broughr into question,ultimately,and not the lack of technology .( Scenario not the same as 1966 wc final eng vs wg or the 2010 game eng vs ger).
Perhaps the outcome of this will be greater scope for the tmo to be brought in .. Or perhaps even whisper in the ref’ ear if he has picked up an incident.
@robdylan (Comment 9) : Yep…that’s him. I was at that game and won’t forget it. Not to mention the Irish attitude afterwards!
Would be great to give tmo the ability to bring dirty play to the attention of the ref.
@Villie: guess what goes around ,comes around for the irish then..?
@Villie (Comment 28) : Hey…I’ve only just noticed the trophy above my avatar now. Thanks…I like it!!
Don’t know who can recall this, sharks scored a try like this a few years ago, I think it was against the Hurricanes. Ball went into the crowd and we used another ball for the quick throw in and we scored a try. Try was given.
Okay sounds like big whoops!
But to be frank, Kaplan needs to stop refereeing with the heart of an artist and focus on getting his calls accurate and on the money every time. Yes it’s nice to see the game flow and some would be penalties ignored, until it’s the sharks he is doing it against!!!
Betty O,Driscoll is bleating again. They were happy to accept the illegal try against the Boks but as soon as it happens to them Betty is crying a river. Payback is a bitch.
Kaplan was also involved in this incident last year.
Austalian Garratt Williamson was the assistant referee in the match between the Crusaders and the Hurricanes in 2010, when the Crusaders took a quick throw-in outside of the laws and scored a try.
“Williamson did not act against a quick throw-in by Crusaders scrumhalf Andy Ellis in the first half even though the Hurricanes reserve players and Conrad Smith had touched the ball before Ellis threw it in. The quick throw-in resulted in a try by Zac Guildford”
Altho he wasn’t blamed, in the NZ TV interview after the game Kaplan said that that Ellis was the first player from the Saders to touch the ball (Canes’ Conrad Smith did not carry the ball into touch but had handled it after it went out) and therefore could take the quick lineout throw. I’m not sure if did this to protect the touch judge, but either way, he was WRONG!
@beet: good evening,sir.heard on the news last nite that the dangerous little stepper from wp craven week side2010 has been included in sa 7s team for hong kong.mbavana?
Him and paul jordaan could wreak havoc !
@beet (Comment 35) :
So it seems Williamson favours the Saders. 😛 And he is reffing us against them.
@bergshark (Comment 37) : Tsjoe! They could be an awesome duo coming off the bench in the 2nd half. Can’t wait to see what Mbovane version 2011 has to offer. Thanks for the info.
@KSA Shark © (Comment 38) : Forget the Crusader lucky charm bit, just the thought of an Aussie reffing makes me cringe these days 🙁
Here is the clip for anyone to see who hasn’t already.
http://rugbydump.blogspot.com/2011/03/mike-phillips-controversial-try-sets-up.html
@beet (Comment 40) : He’s a kiwi.
@KSA Shark © (Comment 42) : Seriously!!!
@beet (Comment 43) : YIP!!!
http://www.sharksworld.co.za/2011/03/14/super-15-match-officials-rnd-5-8/
@KSA Shark © (Comment 41) :
The ball-boy hands the ball to the player in plain view.
Very poor mistake by the referees. Both of them.
Could anyone clarify:
According the the law-book, a quick throw-in can only be taken where the ball crossed the touchline? Is that right? So, if a kick goes full into touch from outside the player’s 22m, a quick throw-in can be taken at the point (or behind) it crossed the touchline (19.2 b)), or else a formal line-out is to be formed in line with the kicker’s position when he kicked the ball?
http://www.irblaws.com/downloads/EN/Law_19_EN.pdf
So a quick throw-in cannot be taken in line with the kicker’s position when he kicked the ball out?
From what I’ve read, Kaplan was asking the AR about the quick throw-in, whilst the AR was assuming the line-out had been formed (hence not calling the wrong-ball [his call]). If the formal line-out was supposed to have formed (it seems so), then Kaplan should have penalised Wales for a) not having enough players in the line-out, b) not throwing straight. The AR could also have blown the hooker for having a foot in-field.
KSA?