There’s been a lot of debate over the last few days after the Sharks’ embarrassing home defeat to the Bulls on Saturday. Many theories have been put forward, many statistics analysed and a fair bit of blame placed at the feet of coach John Plumtree. It’s possible, however, that the coach himself isn’t being given the tools that he needs to succeed.
The Bulls, just like the Stormers before them, came to Durban knowing exactly how they needed to play the game in order to take the Sharks out of it. They knew how to defend against the Sharks’ main strike weapons, knew how to unsettle the Sharks at the set piece, how to dominate territory through accurate tactical kicking, how to dominate the Sharks at the breakdown. In short, both of the Sharks’ main local rivals seem to have thoroughly out-thought and out-planned them in virtually every aspect of the game. Quite a turnaround in a very short space of time, given how the Sharks dominated both of these teams, in their Currie Cup guises, not six months ago.
We’ve spoken about players at length, about selections and form. The interesting thing is, though, that there has been very little personnel change across any of the teams mentioned since the Currie Cup knock-outs. These are the same players, yet somehow the Sharks are nowhere near as effective against the same opposition as they were last year. Perhaps, then, it comes down to coaching.
Let’s look at the makeup of the Bulls’ coaching team this year. Aside from head coach Frans Ludeke, they have a specialist forwards coach in Johann van Graan and a specialist backline coach in Pieter Rossouw. All pretty standard fare so far, until you consider that there is also John MacFarland with the role of specialist defensive coach, Vlok Cilliers as specialist kicking coach, Basil Karsis as the strength, conditioning and fitness coach and Jannie Putter as the “performance psychologist”, or mental coach. That’s a team of seven coaches, all highly specialised and focused towards honing very specific areas of the team’s over-all performance. Add the huge experience brought by Director of Rugby Heynecke Meyer, which is available for any of the coaches across the union’s structures to tap into where necessary and you start to see how it must be relatively easy for the Bulls to devise a strategy to counter any particular strength or tactic that their opponents might use against them.
It’s not just them, though. The Stormers match the Bulls virtually like for like these days. Rassie Erasmus, the Director of Rugby, has Allister Coetzee as head coach, supported by Matt Proudfoot and Robbie Fleck as forwards and backline coach respectively. Jacques Nienaber looks after defence and up until recently they also had a specialist “collisions and rucks” coach in Omar Mouneimne. They also have a fitness and strength coach in Stephan du Toit and recently started to use Tom Dawson-Squibb as mental coach. Once again, a pretty stacked coaching lineup with enough man-power and brain-power to ensure success.
What about the Sharks, though? The reality is, their coaching setup is starting to look a little old-fashioned by comparison and, quite frankly, woefully short of the sort of specialists that their opponents now deem indispensable. There is no Director of Rugby, for one thing and with both of John Plumtree’s assistants, Grant Bashford and Hugh Reece-Edwards having roles that don’t seem particularly well-defined or clear-cut, it’s very hard to see how all of the bases are being covered. Mark Steele is, of course, one of the best strength and conditioning guys in the game, but outside of those four, there simply isn’t anyone else doing coaching at the Sharks, apart from the occasional visit from Braam van Straaten, who shares his kicking knowledge with some of the Sharks players (along with many others from other teams too, it must be mentioned).
Could the fact that the Sharks tend to be found wanting in defence not then hinge on the fact that they don’t have a dedicated defence coach? Perhaps the forwards are getting owned because there isn’t a full-time forwards coach? Maybe the backs look confused because there are two backline coaches, whose roles aren’t clearly distinguished? Is it possible that the lack of a mental coach in the setup has more of an impact on performance than all of the other factors combined?
It’s important to note that the issue here is most likely not the skills or experience of Plumtree or any of the individuals in his team, but rather the very make-up of that team in terms of numbers and specialised focus areas. It is perfectly possible that the Sharks are falling behind here due to a very simple numbers game, where (up to a reasonable point) more coaches equates to more success…
Should this be the case, then, one needs to ask how and why the Sharks find themselves in this position. Is it because the powers that be are trying to economise on the coaching budget and are giving Plumtree less than he needs to succeed? Or perhaps that the head coach himself doesn’t feel the need for any more subordinates than he currently has. Either way, the evidence is clear that the Sharks need to change something in order to keep up with their local rivals.
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… Not just their local rivals – but most of the top tier teams are looking at specialists and coordinators etc. The Sharks set up is renowned for its professionalism… Seems we need to evolve a little bit here – I sincerely hope ego is not the main falling here – Plum can control Bash and Reece in his little boys club – but can he manage an outsider? Hmmmm…
We need a forwards specialist
We need a backline specialist
We need a defensive specialist
NEED.
And we need a PR Manager – the communications coming from The Sharks camp. Very contradicting…
At the start of the season Plum said we can’t afford to win ugly in this competition – as we won’t make it…
He then went on to say that we are not a flash team and people know where our strengths are…
Now on Supersport “Sharks are prepared to win ugly” – “maybe we should forget about the entertaining rugby we played last year and just focus on winning” – O….Kay?
@DarkDestroyer (Comment 1) : MENTAL COACH/SHRINK!
Also, a stylist, so that the boys remain handsome and we lure more cougars like Sharon to Kings Park, what with the dwindling attendances and all…
This comment from another thread probably is more suited for this thread.
Another Plum quote from yesterday…..is he shifting the blame to the players?? I read this article yesterday and his attitude really bothered me.
“There’s been quite a lot of self analysis after the weekend. There’s a lot of pressure and the onus is now definitely on the players,” said Plumtree.
the rest of the article on
http://www (dot) sport24.co.za/Rugby/Super15/Plumtree-No-more-slip-ups-20110524
Great Article Rob…would love to get some answers on those question. IMO is quite a propability that you have it spot-on! We need to stay with the times.
Someone mentioned the talent that we have in the Sharks set-up – and that is true – then howcome they dont deliver….and I think in your article lies the answer.
@Culling Song (Comment 2) : Ja please – some of these hairstyles nowadays are atrocius! 😆
@Culling Song (Comment 2) : Yeah… The Sharks fans are some of the most demanding in the world – in fact its been some time since games (other than finals) were packed silly… So yes; get the stylists – make the shirts tighter… Get the cougars in!!!!!
I must agree with the lack of personel. a team should be run like a successful business infact any organisation should be run that way.
The sharks have done a reasonably good job getting away with the lack of defined coaching roles at the team, however it must be noted that this is probably because their “two captains” Stefan and Smitty are running the backs and forwards respectively. With all due respect these were great players and are still doing a good job in the team, but with no real coaching experience you cant expect to maximise the potential of the backs and forwards as the stormers and bulls are doing.
Personally i think it is time to get replacements for bash and hugh reece and mayb in a year or 2 for Plum as something fresh is needed. the sharks need to lift their game from local champs to international champs.
Looking at the current team it is evident that the players have run in to a dead end as a result of coaching and fatigue.
It was clear to see that the bulls were going to play 2 different games on saturday so why then did no 1 in the sharks setup change tactics? The players are tired and need to be able to change tactics rather than go through the motions of tactics that might only work on 70 to 80% of the opposition.
Under dick muir the sharks used campo as backline and skills coach and we sorely miss having that skill in our arsenal. right now our bhacks are just been used to defend and occasionaly counter attack there are no real backline moves for our players to run.
For now though I would play the following team taking injuries and fatigue into account.
15. stef
14. JP
13. Adi
12. Swanepoel
11. mvovo
10. lambie
09. Hoffman
08. Keegan
07. Deysel
06. Botes
05. Skeate
04. Mostert
03. Van Staden
02. Bissie
01. Beast
16. Burden
17. Smit
18. Hargreaves/Sykes
19. Alberts
20. Marcell Coetzee
21. Mcleod
22. Bosman/Ludick/JLP
You guys are taking this one in a weird direction…
Maybe Smit needs to come straight into the side as forwards coach? Perhaps Stef could develop into a defence coach?
Sharks have more Physios/masseuses etc listed on their site than any sort of coach… maybe thats why they playing such a relaxed style of game!?
I think it’s clear that Plum needs help….some tough decisions will have to be made because neither of our backline ‘coaches’ seem to be able to produce the goods at this stage.
@robdylan (Comment 9) : I think they might develop into their positions soon , but i feel they should hone those skills at schoolboy or club level. they definetely know the business but it must be hard to take orders from your fellow players when they not even executing the plays they are teaching properly.
Mossie aka Jaque Fourie will make a good defence coach once retired in my opinion.
@chucky (Comment 10) : I might be wrong about this, but I believe the masseuse likes to dabble in a bit of light mental coaching on the side.
@robdylan (Comment 13) : 😮
in an ideal world can you list your 7 strong coaching team for the sharks Note only current coaches & players soon to retire are eligible
Interesting one this. When the GLRU fired Eugene Eloff (far to late in my humble opinion), and looked to replace him with someone permanent, one of the names bandied about was Heynecke Meyer. One of the reasons given for turning Heynecke down was the support staff he wanted to bring along with him. Remember, this was well before the dual cash injections from Gumede and MTN, and it was felt at the time that the cost was prohibitive. They decided in the end to go with Dick Muir, and we know how that turned out 😥
Who is there that we can actually get in at the Sharks?
I think its all the Pilates they’re doing. How can you functionally train for rugby in a prone position ?
@Richard Ferguson (Comment 16) : I like the look of steve atherton at Crusaders as a forward coach ( former Glenwood boy, shark and bok) I also think defensively and skills wise we should be looking at someone outside of the sharks borders in order to inject something different.
But we NEED coaches who have top level COACHING exposure.
@DarkDestroyer (Comment 1) : Correction ” Used to be renowned for their professionalism” . . .
Perhaps Straeuli has something to do with our decline to super rugby obscurity?
Ag but I`m in a good mood, don`t want to discuss such heavy subjects today.
How about an interview with some of the flashergirls?
That should see some more hits on SW ??
Great article Rob, and it strikes EXACTLY at the heart of the problem in my opinion.
We have very talented individuals, but the coaching team is too small. Areas like Defence, collisions, forward play, and mental preparation are specialist ones in the modern era, and the Sharks have fallen far, far behind with their traditional coaching structure.
A sure sign of this is the poor team performance in certain key areas: breakdowns, defence, backline play. These are areas that SHOULD be targetted by specialists.
Considering TG was dropped like a brick when Plum took over from Muir. I know what my thoughts are on whether it is money or Plumtree.
Atherton and Charles Louw coached the Vodacom Cup side a few years ago and failed horribly
@Original Pierre (Comment 19) : good idea…
Head coach: Sean everitt
Forwards: ryan strudwick
Backs: bashford
Defence: deon kayser
Skills: reece
Mental: tim goodenough
Strenght/conditioning: mark steele
Director of rugby: plum
@Speed7 (Comment 17) :
Richie McCaw spends most of a rugby game in a prone position, cradling the ball.
Awfully quiet mate: we miss our Lions maatjies.
What baffles me about the sharks defence is that not every one holds their line, so even a team with the simplest of backline moves ( 9 to 10 to 9 to 13) results in the sharks having atleast two defenders out of position which opens up the 12/13 channel to attack where as the sharks should try and drift the move to the touchline and ideally have our 6/8 looping around to cover the wing.
What we have though is alot of tries been scored straight through our 12/13 axis because there is no defensive pattern been used.
Can any one in the know confirm who is responsible for the sharks Defensive line?? Its very irritating to watcg when you know the calibre of players available
Excellent piece Rob. It does seem that the Sharks have become complacent and marked time since last season, while our rivals have all evolved and made significant progress. The problem is also with the Sharks limited game plan as it’s far too obvious and easy to counter. Put a few guys to nullify Alberts and you nullify the Sharks. Also doesn’t help when you have an appalling lineout and can’t even win your own ball!
On a lighter note ….. Tom Dawson- Squibb 😆 😆 You can’t be seriassss!!!
@Richard Ferguson (Comment 16) :
Mate, I can introduce you to a host of very specialised people involved with professional sport and professional teams around the world.
This is over and above ‘rugby coaches’ (I quite rate) the Sharks have within their ranks (or could call upon).
This is not rocket science, the importance and success of teams who employed this ‘type’ of structure (Sharks don’t have to copy but develop their own) is clear for anyone who wants to see.
Well put together Rob!
@Villie (Comment 27) : I’m afraid I am 🙂
Has anyone actually asked Plum what the defined roles of Hugh RE and Bashford are?
@Villie (Comment 27) :
He also helped out at Ikeys this year – guess where they ended up? 😉
@robdylan (Comment 24) : have you selected with what the sharks have available? because i fear that that wouldnt really enable us to be as competitive as we can be.
Not so charmed about head, skills,defence and backs. Just too safe in my opinion. If our coaching team were bok players they would all be midweek players not earning official caps.
@Morné (Comment 29) : thanks mate. And a big thanks to you and Rich for all the help with this one.
@Morné (Comment 32) : Just having a laugh at the name Morne..I guess the saying can’t judge a book by it’s cover is fairly appropriate here then 🙂
@robdylan (Comment 34) : Aah….I was wondering where you got all the info on the Stormers support staff…was getting seriously worried that you were showing an unhealthy amount of knowledge in the Mountain Goats!!! 😛 😈
@chucky (Comment 33) : I’m looking at evolution, not revolution. How can we tweak the existing roles to create a better structure. Bear in mind that the Sharks are actually doing quite well under the current coaches. I mean, it’s not like we’re bottom of the log! I don’t think we want to throw out the rugby brains we already have.
The one guy, whose out of a job is Brendan Venter. I rate him a lot.
Gary Kirsten hired world adventure icon ( can’t rem his name) who cheated death a few times as a motivational speaker to the Indian cricket team along with a mental coach. That’s class. Hope other sports team do this as well.
I propose everitt as head coach because he is the best facilitator and man-manager we have. Communicates well and is well-liked and respected by players and fellow coaches alike.Those are important skills indeed
@Speed 😆
@robdylan (Comment 37) : Point taken but i feel that initially those selections were far too safe. we chose assistant coaches who are developing themselves at the sharks rather than the players. but dont get me wrong they are doing a good job just wish they would maximise what we have. we are the envy of alot of other teams but our structure represents that of a “small town ” team ala Cheetahs with naka at the helm.
Good article though and it makes alot of sense just hope we get an external consultant who can tweak some things before the plays offs which i believe we will make.
This years Currie Cup we should look to building up a strong squad for next year. Most of our key players will be at RWC. I hope will all my heart they don’t give the captaincy to Stef. We should look at a long time plan and choose a new captain. Maybe get a few more players, and employ as mentioned above a few more coaches. Winning the currie cup would be good but grooming a few youngsters and new theme ethos is the bigger priority.
Good article Rob…
Like in any successful business you need personel that are focussed on delivering a specifc objective. You cannot have a team running arround all trying to grow the business by adressing all the problems and strategic intents. You need someone that focusses on finance only, HR only, operations only, sales only etc. They all work together to achieve a strategic intent by delivering within their respective roles that compliment each other and not do it for each other.
Now, having said that, it is not any different in sport. A forwards coach cannot be coaching the forwards while keeping another eye on the backs and wondering about the defense all at the same time. Focussed resources with an understanding of what happens arround them and the ability to deliver a specifc objective that compliments the strategic intent and objectives of the rest of the “departments” is how you become successful. Seems to me like the Bulls and the Stormers has got this figured out. What about the Sharks, Lions and Cheetahs? Where will they take thei management teams in the future?
@Viking (Comment 43) : Anyway, Food for thought, Use it don’t use it, blah blah blah 🙄
@Viking (Comment 43) : I didn’t mention it, but the Lions and Cheetahs both also have larger coaching teams than the Sharks do. Both, at least, have specialist defensive coaches
@Viking (Comment 43) : Lions have
Director of rugby – Dick Muir
Head coach – John Mitchell
Forwards – Johann Ackermann
Backs – Carlos Spencer
Kicking – Ditto
And then they have all the other back room personell fitness/masseuse etc. So they not in such bad shape in the back room just on the field, so they not the ideal advert for having the correct structures in place
Great article Rob, very shocking indeed!
@Original Pierre (Comment 19) : Yeah – used to be renowned for our professionalism… As for Straueli – WhyTF we actually hold on to this *fellow* befuddles me… But as you say – lets not go there…
If I were @ The Sharks I would recommend that Bash and Reece pitch to me why they deserve to be there…
I would to employ the famous hand eye guru who’s name infuriatingly escapes me now!
I would look to employ Gert Smal as a Forwards coach
I would look to employ Eddie Jones as a Technical Specialist addressing the backline and defense – plus access to developing a set-piece strategy along with Gert Smal.
Plum would still be there – as a Head Coach – perhaps – but he too would need to pitch to me why?
Rudolf could play staaldraad elsewhere…
In a perfect world…
@chucky (Comment 41) : you’re probably right…. very few proven “big hitters” in that lineup I’ve proposed.
How would yours differ?
@DarkDestroyer (Comment 48) : Sheryl Calder.
Probably not spelling her first name right.
@robdylan (Comment 50) : sorry – Sherylle
@robdylan (Comment 50) : It’s correct Rob. She helped both Clive Woodward with the England WC winning team and Jake White with the SA WC winning squad!
@Mocho (Comment 38) :
The Sharks need some new blood and new ideas….Brendon Venter might be controversial but I think he could be a great addition to the Sharks set-up.
@DarkDestroyer (Comment 48) : Sheryl Calder (spelling?) would be the hand eye coach
@chucky (Comment 46) : They have Wayne Taylor (Kiwi) as their conditioning coach.
@robdylan (Comment 51) : Yeah and thanks for the censoring… 😆
I as a fan don’t have the answers – but I as a fan can see that something clearly isn’t right… We don’t come across as an intelligent team. We have some of the worlds best players – but have the game plan of a High School team, with some of its execution… As for the state of play – we all concede that it has been a gradual meltdown…
We can’t expect much change against The Waratahs… Just hope the finishing is better, the handling and the intensity – the brains trust need to come up with the answers before the stadium is empty…
@DarkDestroyer (Comment 55) : I don’t want anybody asking me very pointed questions about who you are and where you live 🙂 Best to not call important people unkind names…
@DarkDestroyer (Comment 55) : the brains trust need to come up with the answers before the stadium is empty…
VERY pertinent comment that one…
@robdylan (Comment 56) : I unreservedly thank you 😉
@robdylan (Comment 57) :
… I am positive by design – thus sincerely believe that things will be dealt with before it becomes a “crisis” – the realist says to me that we will see a “crisis”…
@robdylan (Comment 49) : Director – Plum
HEad – Brendan Venter or a varsity Cup coach
Backs – Everitt
Scrum- Balie swart/Smitty
Forwards – Skinstad/ Mark Andrews
Mind- Sheryll
Skills – Stephan Brink ( just to help)
Defence –
Kicking- Braam / Jannie De Beer
Conditioning guys etc stay the same.
Ive used mostly guys in Durbs
Not sure who/what i have left out?
Collisions I would get Warren Britz involved
@robdylan (Comment 57) :
I give up.
@Viking (Comment 43) : Hark, the Norseman speaks truth! Long may you quaff mead from the skulls of your enemies, and may a feast be prepared for you in the halls of Valhalla!
Prosaic bullshit aside though, I am in complete agreement with you, and have some first-hand experience of it too. I have been with my current employer for more or less four years now, and much of that time has been devoted to restructuring my department with the specific idea of filling posts with people with the correct skills-set for it, and ensuring they have clear, specific objectives, the authority to execute what they want to, and accountability for the results.
It has been a long, sometimes tedious and often traumatic (I certainly know the union representatives and CCMA commissioners a lot better than I would’ve liked) process, but at the end of the day I have seen improvements across all aspects of the business – cost, equipment availability, productivity, etc. etc.
The biggest single benefit though (listen up Mr. Plumtree!) has been that the pressure on me has eased exponentially. At the end of 2007 I was about to be dragged off by the Four Horsemen of Workplace Stress, namely Depression, Heart Attack, Ulcers and Alcohol Addiction, but nowadays I’m relaxed, hale and healthy (I’ve hung onto Alcohol Addiction though; I’ve always though he simply had a bad rep).
So, in short, right people in right posts = improved performance and less stress. Should be a no-brainer. After all, the ponces in Capetown and neanderthals in Pretoria managed to figure it out! 😈
@Culling Song (Comment 61) :
And because of all the skills you bring to the table I nominate you as Life Time president of the Whisky Club 😀
@robdylan (Comment 24) : Deon Kayser is a backline coach. I think we need a proper backline coach, someone like Eddie Jones. Bash and Reece Edwards don’t set the world alight and are being found wanting in the competition.
@DarkDestroyer (Comment 48) : didn’t read your comment before I posted my comment above. Eddie is the man and if we also bring Gert Smal on board we would become a force again. I’ve seen enough, no ways we are going to come close to win this competition this year. The last time we were a force was back in 2007 and it happens to be the time we had an attack minded backline coach. RS and Plum are a bad combination!
@Culling Song (Comment 61) : Glad to hear that there are some of you in agreement. Nothing against rugby players who become coaches, but they lack the business understanding and management capability some times. Interestingly though, I think WITS business school has gone into the area of sport management courses recently. It’s now always easy to get a person that understands the sport technicalities while also having the business acumen like a Heineken Meyer.
But glad to hear you held onto the alcoholism. I would have done the same thing. 😉
@GreatSharksays (Comment 64) : Lets see what happens – we are all mostly in agreement that progressive change needs to happen… BUT WILL IT? How far down the rabbit(shit)hole do we need to go before we realize that we are clearly not in Wonderland? We are stagnant, unintelligent and bloody boring… The fans have not much to cheer about – I tell you what the braai discussions at KP this year have not been about how lekker the rugby is…
Lets recap the home games… Wait – lets not… I rest my case.
don’t you guys think that we are a bit harsh on plumtree. now everybody wants to fire him, but i think that the players must also take a bit of slack for what has been happening on the field. our biggest problem this weekend was that we couldn’t catch a ball and our tackling.
now how can plumtree learn the basics of rugby to the player. they are suppose to know that already. our guys must come back down to earth and start playing rugby again and forget about all the bulldozer rugby we’ve been playing. i’m sure we will see a very better perfomance because we sure can’t do worse than this past weekend
@Culling Song (Comment 61) : So, in short, right people in right posts = improved performance and less stress. Should be a no-brainer. After all, the ponces in Capetown and neanderthals in Pretoria managed to figure it out! 😈
😀 😈
@jovner (Comment 67) : when has anybody once in this discussion suggested firing John Plumtree? We’re trying to find ways to help him be more effective
ok rob, maybe i just understood it the wrong way.just wish the players would stand up and play like the sharks we know. didn’t mean to be nasty
@jovner (Comment 70) : You got it wrong, this week its Rudi Strauli and the assistant coaches, next week it will be Smit (again) and Plum.
@Pokkel (Comment 62) : Provided that means my membership fee is subsidised, I accept!
@Culling Song (Comment 72) : Ok while we’re negotiating….I reckon we could subsidise the membership if your house becomes the Club House 😉
@jovner (Comment 67) : Fire Plumtree!? 😯 Hell, no! Despite all the negative sentiment flying around, I think most people around here would agree that he has contributed a lot to the Sharks, and can continue doing so. It’s rather a case of how his skills are applied, and how he is supported that’s up for debate.
@Culling Song (Comment 74) : hear hear!
@Pokkel (Comment 62) : If you know how close we came to not securing the Glenfiddich Snow Phoenix you might reconsider… 😯
@Salmonoid (Comment 71) :
@jovner (Comment 67) : Sorry but basics need to be drilled into the players becuase over the course of a season players will pick up bad habbits and never think twice about them . Coaches must base the core of their game plan around basics .The stormers most notable difference has been the way they protect the breakdown and how good they are on defence compared to past years ,tell me alister coetzee had nothing to do with implimenting those basics?? Fact is the only forward that carries the ball in the correct position in contact is bismarc. I still dont know why our forwards run by themselves at defence ,buddy up and protect the ball.
@Talent (Comment 78) : valid points mate.
@jovner (Comment 67) : I don’t want him to get fired but I do want him to get help in the form of a proper backline coach that has proved himself, a defence coach and a forwards or strategy coach (director of rugby). Teams are reading us like an “old comic book”! Things need to change. We have no innovation and that’s what we’ve been saying to PDivvy as well…you need to stay ahead of the pack and not rely on what worked last year. The reason I say Plum and Rudolph aren’t a good combination because one thinks he doesn’t help and can manage, one is still stuck in the past and doesn’t know better. I want some brains and innovation at the top. Take a coach like Mckenzie for example…he plays according to what the opposition can and can’t do.
@Talent (Comment 78) : Whoa there Talent, Bissie carries the ball into contact in the correct position????? He is one of the worst, far too upright, does not get his hands free to unload, he has turned the ball over to the other team in the tackle more than any other Shark this season. Both Bissie and Alberts do not work on freeing their hands for the offload, Bissie runs far too upright, and Alberts runs with his head down too much. Neither generally looks for support runners to offload to.
@Dancing Bear (Comment 81) : yeah, I also just bit a hole straight through my tongue when I read that. Started to wonder whether Talent had left a word out.
Damn, I wish the bleeding would stop now.
Our strike runners require technical coaching – I was complimentary of Talent’s comments regarding the work the Stormers guys have done – the players are coached in all aspects of the game, and of course the support players…
Our running lines – our attacking platforms – our support runners – we look decidedly average in these departments – Bismarck, Alberts and Deysel – if these guys were employed more technically there would be more space for supporting players to get additional meters – we need players to play specific roles in the team, both on attack and defense – it seems very helter skelter…
That is absolute nonsense, plumtree has been shown up as a coach firstly by the crusaders and we all thought he learnt his lesson only for the same thing to happen against the stormers, its a lack of preperation, analysis, doing thourough homework on your opposition. playing deyzel and alberts together clearly does not work, why did we buy hoffman as mc cloud is clearly burnt out!!! and he continues to get 10 minutes a game if i was hoffman i would request a transfer as the sharks are wasting his time.12 and 13 are the positions we are seriously out of depth with as the current players at our disposal are both palookas and not worthy to play at this level!!!
@robdylan (Comment 82) : Those tongue injuries do bleed a lot don’t they? 😆
Correct me if I am wrong Rob, but from what I remember last year in the CC, the Sharks were superb at protecting their own ball at the breakdown. They had people clearing out rucks every time someone was tackled, and the clear outs were effective. It seems this year they have lost all that. Especially on Saturday, they seemed to do a very poor job of protecting their own ball, and it was not because of poor technique of the ball carriers, but rather our cleaners were not there, or were missing the players they were trying to clean completely. I saw several rucks where two of our support players entered the ruck, and both completely missed their clear out, leaving two Bulls players to simply steal the ball.
@theswan4 (Comment 84) : You can play Alberts and Deysel together – what we are discussing is how they are utilized, and how they are supported – neither Deysel or Alberts can run through 15 players – but they can gain you valuable meters to get some momentum going – our whole game plan is indeed looking very vulnerable – and we as fans are concerned.
@theswan4 (Comment 84) : You’re calling two Springboks (Bosman and Stef) palookas? Come on, they are not having a very good season, but Stef lead us to a CC victory less than a year ago, and there were plenty people singing Bosman’s praises earlier in the season. Stef may be past it now, just too old, but to call him a palooka is just not on. Same with Bosman, sure he could be playing better rugby right now, but a palooka? I think not.
@DarkDestroyer (Comment 86) : Have you noticed that Alberts two worst games (by a long shot) he played 8. I know that was his position at the Lions, but it seems to me he is much more effective as a 7. Kanko and Keegan are both better 8s than Alberts, while neither can hold a candle to him at 7.
@Dancing Bear (Comment 85) : I agree with you. It’s almost as though we put a check in that box and have never gone back to revisit it.
@robdylan (Comment 89) : How do you completely miss a player you are trying to clear out unless you close your eyes before going into contact? Makes me wonder if that is the problem with our guys. Butch has always had this problem, he always enters the tackle and contact with his eyes closed.
@DarkDestroyer (Comment 83) :
And you know what, its such an easy thing to coach. Dancing Bear is right, technique in contact is very average. Muscle power will only get you that far, then it is how you apply it that will get you more…
@Dancing Bear (Comment 85) :
You know how easy it is to identify and counter this?
A rookie analyst will pick up in less than 500 minutes of video which players are used to protect, explode (over) and assist (support) at a tackle situation.
Problem is, the same players are used for the same roles almost all of the time.
So if you as an opposing team plan to;
a) Slow down the ball at the ruck, harass their cleaners and exploding players (off the ruck).
b) Counter rucks, then simply harass/clear their pillars on the sides.
Once identified, it is easy to plan against…
@Dancing Bear (Comment 88) : you reckon Vic lacks a bit of subtlety? Or is it that the gameplan stifles his creativity? He was an age-group flyhalf, FFS…
@Morné (Comment 91) : 500 minutes is quite a lot?
@Dancing Bear (Comment 88) :
An individual in a loose-trio will only ever be effective if the trio is effective…
Even though I agree with much said in here , I want most to stop and just think back a few months ago when we defeated these self same teams handsomely
Our defense was the best we had a new style we spoke of etc ,we won the CC etc, we were play stunning attacking rugby , now thats all gone.
Now way I see it we only changed one position 12, Andries Strauss left to play for the Cheetahs, otherwise all the same players
Maybe the only thing we need is someone like Sheryll Calder , to me the biggest problem is the players attitudes and mindsets
The Sharks again I repeat that since P Divs visit to durbs re Smit and where he should play the Sharks fell apart, to me something is wrong and it needs to be soughted, but it really seems to be attitudes
Think about this , It was said Smitty was back for the Sharks and after world cup the talk was he would go into coaching,Next thing we read he could be off to England for that self same role???
Our backline defensive calls last year were made by Stefan, thats the self same Stefan thats making them now ,and no I am not blaming him, but rather pointing out that most things have not changed , same captains etc
@Dancing Bear (Comment 88) : Yes – Alberts is a better 7 by far – I like the look of a Deysel at number 6, Alberts at 8 with a Kanko/Daniel combo for 8 – you need that quick explosiveness for 8 and more strength for a number 7 – positionally two very very different positions.
@robdylan (Comment 93) :
Its only about 4 games mate 😉
@robdylan (Comment 92) : Rob, I am not sure if Vic lacks the subtlety needed from an 8 or if he is just so overplayed and his last two games happen to be at 8 when he was most tired. So not sure if he is a natural 8 and just tired or if he should be used at 7. Also, you want your 8 to be more like a second opensider, getting to the breakdown a little quicker as well as carry the ball up. Kanko has been doing both very well this season, Vic does not seem to get to the breakdown fast enough for an 8. Also, Vic never seems to free his hands up in the tackle, I would really like an 8 that can actually offload. Both Bissie and Vic die with the ball far too often, they never seem to consider the offload option.
@sharks_lover (Comment 95) :
There is a link to an article I posted on MSN to Rob yesterday, maybe he still has it. ‘Confidence’ in a team environment is multi-dimensional – where you are right, is that experts (not like Calder, she is a skills coach effectively) can be invaluable.
@Morné (Comment 94) : Agreed about the loose forward trio. However as for the cleaners, if there are two opposing players trying to steal the ball at the breakdown, it is the responsibility of the first two support players to the breakdown to clear them out. If they are trying to steal the ball, how are they not an easy target to clean out? Not sure how a team can prevent another team from cleaning out at the rucks, but I agree that the counter ruck is always an option.
@DarkDestroyer (Comment 96) : I agree 100% , our best loose trio would be 2 fold
8Kanko
7Alberts
6Deysel
or
8Daniel
7Alberts
6Deysel
And yes I understand we need to give the likes of Deysel and Alberts a break
Well rotate against the so called weaker teams where one can play Daniel at 6 and Kanko at 8
@sharks_lover (Comment 95) : Weren’t the defensive lines called by Strauss last season? I know Barrett called the defensive lines while he was at the Sharks. I think it should be the 12 that sets it up defensively, not the 13.
@Dancing Bear (Comment 100) :
Comes down to team strategy and roles.
I agree with you, in as much as I have never rated the whole ‘fetcher’ love affair most Saffas seem to share where every single player has a responsibility at the ruck or tackled area.
My observation from most Saffa teams however, is that its player/role specific.
@sharks_lover (Comment 95) : how sure are you that Stef was marshaling the defence? My info is that Dries did that.
@Dancing Bear (Comment 102) : I reckon I would sell a kidney to have Brad back at the Sharks 🙁
@robdylan (Comment 104) : snap! 😆
@robdylan (Comment 105) : I reckon you would sell most of your internal organs to have your stalkee back! 😉
@Morné (Comment 103) : My opinion is that at the first couple of breakdowns after the first phase, it is player/role specific, but once you get past three phases, the players positioning at the previous breakdown is going to dictate their role. For example from a lineout if you pass all the way to the other wing, who is tackled, there is no way a forward will get their in time to effectively clear the ruck, so you are going to be dependent on your centres and fullback in this situation.
@Dancing Bear (Comment 108) : And your hooker is probably going to be on the wing from where they threw the ball in.
@robdylan (Comment 105) : @robdylan (Comment 104) : Agreed on Barrit
I remember when i was having lunch here last year with a coaching staff member him telling me how Stefan read defensive lines and patroled them , to be honest i did not outright ask him that question, but assumed it was Stefan as Andriess was not always in the team, so you could be right , but last year the coaching staff was very impressed with stefans defensive play
Also stefan is a comunicator, as is Andries agreed , not sure Bosman is
and yes a good communicator is seriously needed, remember i told you about the breakfast i had in JHB with J White??, i remember telling you about his answer as to why ne never chose Barrit as he was to slow , but said Barrit was a brilliant center that controled the Sharks backline
And said neither Adi at the time or Ruan or F Steyn were in that mold as a backline communicator
@Dancing Bear (Comment 108) :
See Richard’s article on the stats, Sharks did 5+ phases quite a number of times, but still stuck to specific roles.
And I agree with Rob, I cannot identify the Sharks defence organiser at the moment, because I reckon you don’t have one, or he does not command an authoritive enough position at the moment.
@sharks_lover (Comment 110) : the other great backline communicator was a certain Dick Muir and before him P Muller
damn how we could do with a young Pieter Muller
@sharks_lover (Comment 112) :
Nail/Head…
Some players are quite simple good communicators – others not.
@Morné (Comment 111) : I have to agree
Another problem Morne is our Locks , that are not in the Picture against the teams we are playing against , thats very concerning
A tight 5 is just that a tight 5 , not a tight 3
@Morné (Comment 111) : The Sharks have a defensive organizer? Could have fooled me. 😉
Perhaps if the Sharks had not stuck to specific roles after the first couple of phases, they would have players at the breakdown quicker cleaning out. If the player with the “role” of clearing at the breakdown is on the other side of the field, then what? No, I think that is the problem with the Sharks, players stand around at the breakdown waiting for the designated cleaner to show up, often late!
@Dancing Bear (Comment 115) : And then the designated cleaner completely misses the player they are trying to clear out.
@Morné (Comment 113) : I have asked this question a few times , I am wondering if Sykes in his mind is not in Ireland already??
most that know me knows i am a huge fan of his , and have on many occasions fought and said he should be a bok
Now knowing him i am probably wrong , he is a 100 percenter, but not of late , thus i wonder ,
@sharks_lover (Comment 114) : @Dancing Bear (Comment 115) : @Dancing Bear (Comment 116) : @sharks_lover (Comment 117) :
Okes, the only response I have to this is get 3 people involved:
Get TG (Tim Goodenough) back asap, confidence is massive, or if there are issues with him and the union, Ross Tucker is another option.
Get Doc Calder in, there is nothing wrong with your locks, they just need to focus and ‘perceive’ situations better.
Get a defense/contact specialist in, someone like Philip Copeman for instance to teach techniques going into contact at rucks or just normal tackles.
@Morné (Comment 118) : makes sense thanks
@Morné (Comment 118) : Given the nature of what has been discussed here – are The Sharks heading into darker waters – or is there some light to this – do you think that management can see that all is not gravy and that an intervention of the positive / constructive kind is NEEDED?
@Morné (Comment 118) : My point was that last year the same players and basically the same coaching staff, were clearing rucks very well, and the Sharks were best in the CC at protecting their own ball. The same players seem incapable of performing the same duties they did last year in the CC, so I am sure the problem is psychological rather than physical. So yes, I agree, the Sharks need to seriously consider some mental coaching.
@DarkDestroyer (Comment 120) : See my last post, the same players were able to get the job done in the 2010 Currie Cup, they had the ability and technique to get it done then. Surely you don’t all of a sudden become unable to perform tasks that were second nature a year ago? Hence my feeling that the Sharks need some serious mental coaching and I think a lot of their problems will be resolved.
@DarkDestroyer (Comment 83) : I watched the reply of the Cheetahs match today. I was absolutely amazed at how every player who gets the ball looks for support runners. If I remember correctly, one phase of play Johnson broke past 2tackles ran 30m before banging into the scramble defense, looked for support and found Sarel who looked for support and passed to Viljoen who looked for support, and so on and so on. I think they ended up witha forward pass but it was a definate try. If the Cheetahs can do it, so can the Sharks. Simple stuff that we learn in U10 rugby.
@Morné (Comment 118) : hehehe nice one Morne, get us all worked up, then the only thing you can say is get three mental coaches. 😉
@DarkDestroyer (Comment 120) :
Evolution, not revolution – Rob mentioned this.
Change is found in small parts, not total overhauls – I am a firm believer in this.
I would not get rid of any person in your setup now, players or coaching – I would however add elements to compliment them in their specific roles.
It starts with belief first (ala Dancing Bear’s post), and the tools to execute after.
@Mocho (Comment 123) : In the past, the Cheets have had a tendency to shuffle the ball along the line to the wing, with nobody straightening the line or breaking the gain line. I noticed that almost every player that received the ball looked to straighten the line before offloading, and were often able to break the gain line before offloading. The Sharks would do well to emulate this.
@Morné (Comment 125) : Indeed we need evolution – which is why I am concerned… I fear management won’t amend their strategies etc – then the proverbial hits the fan – and a revolution is brought about.
Lets hope sanity and logic prevail…
@Dancing Bear (Comment 124) :
Hehe… Only one mental coach, the other very much skills.
Dudes I can tell you from my personal observations, the Sharks have a magical setup in Durbs, getting it right will only take one or two small adjustments.
Dark days?
Nah, you are emotional given recent results. Fortunes can easily change in 1 week (from a supporters perspective).
Continued success, will depend on what is done now with a view on the next 3 to 4 years…
@Dancing Bear (Comment 121) : If you read post 95 I say exactly that
@Morné (Comment 128) : Two mental coaches and one skill Morne. Goodenough is clearly mental, but with Calder you talk about perception and focus, surely that is also mental?
@sharks_lover (Comment 129) : Well, you also said that Stef was making the defensive calls last year. 😉 😀
@Dancing Bear (Comment 131) : read my explanations re that to Rob 😉
😈 stop the selective reading @Dancing Bear (Comment 131) : 😆
@sharks_lover (Comment 133) : If someone wrote a synopsis of the posts I would probably read that selectively as well 😉 However on that topic, do you think it is possible that defensively we are missing Strauss significantly this season?
Ok, I have to be off now, I have a weather routing and navigation meeting to attend for this coming weekends distance race. Cheers!
@Dancing Bear (Comment 134) : yes we are and thats why i would call up swannie to the team urgently
swannie like strauus not the greatest flair player or the fastest , but he keeps the defenses right and tackles without fear
@Dancing Bear (Comment 135) : cheers
@Dancing Bear (Comment 126) : The Cheetahs are playing some super impressive rugby. We all knew that team ethos in the Cheetahs was always strong, but coaching and resources were not. It seems that there’s a positve evolution in the Cheetahs Camp that even Darwin will be proud of. Has Naka said what he has done differently? This was a team that used to play the most “negative” rugby in last years CC that that was the only topic that the Supersport commentators talked about after every phase. My support this year is as follows
Sharks
Sharks
Sharks
Cheetahs
Bulls
Stormers
Crusaders lol
@Dancing Bear (Comment 135) : DB are you involved in the Maritime industry?
@Dancing Bear (Comment 130) :
No chance, Doc Calder is all skill.
@Morné (Comment 140) : She probably read this article 😉
@Mocho (Comment 141) :
I asked her to! 😈
@Morné (Comment 142) : haha I know. I remember she did a course with Westville Boys high and we did something like 3intercept tries a match.
You guys make to much of the CurrieCup.
Remember when the Free State won CurrieCups but made no headway in Super Rugby?
Last year’s CC was also weaker than normal. The Bulls team became full strength about 10 days before the semi-final.
For the leading players, the CC was a short break from test rugby. Ditto at WP.
Forget all this crap about new coaching staff or shrinks or whatnot. The simple fact is that we have such an average backline that we cannot rely on them to do anything constructive, which means we base our entire strategy on forward play. In Sharks country this translates into Alberts bashing it up or Deysel bashing it up or Beast bashing it up or… You get the picture.
There is nothing easier to defend against, because there is BUGGERALL variation. No short passes, no clever little angled runs, no decoy running – just put the head down and play pinball until the ball eventually comes back under pressure to an already limited backline or is turned over.
PLAIN STUPID and then Plum has the audacity in his after-match interviews to enlighten us with how “naive” the players were. WTF?
If we lost attempting various options and none worked it would be easier to swallow, but we are like a funfair game where you have to hit little pop-up men with a plastic hammer, only with the Sharks the little pop-up man appears at the same hole. Every time.