robdylan

Big win not without cost


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Currie Cup, Original Content, Sharks on 17 Oct 2011 at 10:08
Tagged with : , , , , , , ,

While the Sharks will feel that they accomplished their primary goal of scoring a bonus-point win against the Lions – and assuring a fifth-successive Currie Cup home semi-final in the process – the secondary goal of coming through the match unscathed was not to be.

Coach John Plumtree admitted afterwards that utility forward Jean Deysel picked up a groin strain during the first half, while winger Lwazi Mvovo tweaked a hamstring. Both will be assessed during the course of the week to be considered for inclusion against the Cheetahs on Saturday.

Plumtree also confirmed that Beast Mtawarira will be fit to add further depth to an already overfull front row cupboard, although John Smit has played his last game for the Sharks and will not be available for the semi-final, due to logisitical issues surrounding his move to the UK.


124 Comments

  • Oh no! Poor Deysel πŸ™

  • Comment 1, posted at 17.10.11 10:43:02 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply
    Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette
     
  • The weekend selection becomes a bit tricky as the Cheetahs thrive off front foot ball for their backs. So thinking Plum will go with a big pack and backline players that are good defensively.

  • Comment 2, posted at 17.10.11 10:54:38 by SheldonK Reply
    SheldonK
     
  • @Sharksmad – The Blog’s Dudette (Comment 1) :

    never mind that … my poor FL πŸ˜›

  • Comment 3, posted at 17.10.11 11:17:41 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Zibbie (Comment 3) : your lead looks close to unassailable!

  • Comment 4, posted at 17.10.11 11:55:21 by robdylan Reply
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  • Oh no! Zibbie you had him in your FL πŸ‘Ώ which of the Sharks players do I need to warn this week? πŸ˜†

  • Comment 5, posted at 17.10.11 12:02:57 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

    Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette
     
  • The injuries are not too worrying; the reason being:

    1. Odwa for Lwazi is more than an able replacement
    2. We now have three ball carriers in, Bissie, Alberts and Beast. We can even add the Hoff to the list.Better for Deysel to rest and return invigorated for the Final :mrgreen:

  • Comment 6, posted at 17.10.11 12:18:40 by dawj Reply

     
  • Hope Deysel is Fit for the final…when is Adi back…this week? Deysel has been awesome at 4 and i think he could actually become a full time 4 for The Sharks; yeah sure not the tallest, but the power he adds to the tightfive is immense. His ofload game has also been a great pleasure to watch the past few weeks. The Shraks alsways have loosies who operate well in the lineout; so we don’t really loose anything in terms of jumpers if Deysel stays at 4; Alberts, kanko and keegan…all very solid lineout jumpers. Glad we have beast back, eugene has been far off his superugby form; and the amount of penalties he gives away is unacceptable. Go The Sharks!!!!

  • Comment 7, posted at 17.10.11 12:32:18 by JJR Reply
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    JJR
     
  • My Superugby 22 for next season-

    1.Beast
    2.Bissie
    3.Jannie
    4.Deysel
    5.Skeato
    6.Keegs(C)
    7.Willem
    8.Kanko
    9.Cronje (Hoffman and Mcloed lack composure; they make too many errors and can cause our game to become unstructured)
    10.Freddie
    11.JPP
    12.Lambie
    13.Jacobs
    14.Odwa
    15.Riaan

    16.Burds
    17.Van Staden
    18.Coetzee
    19.Botes
    20.Hoffman
    21.Bosman
    22.Mvovo

  • Comment 8, posted at 17.10.11 12:42:32 by JJR Reply
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    JJR
     
  • @JJR (Comment 8) : Ross Cronje is leaving, isn’t he?

  • Comment 9, posted at 17.10.11 12:54:18 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @JJR (Comment 8) :

    If Lambie spends a portion of the season at 12, something is seriously wrong. Not sure JP Pietersen would take kindly to playing left wing either. Can’t say I agree about Ross Cronje either.

    Wonder what the possibility is of Marcell Coetzee going on loan to the Lions! He won’t see much game-time with the Sharks you’d think unless there was a major injury crisis, as good as he is.

  • Comment 10, posted at 17.10.11 13:02:25 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikp
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 10) : Pietersen regularly plays left for the Sharks… has done for 5 seasons now πŸ™‚

  • Comment 11, posted at 17.10.11 13:18:03 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 11) :

    My mistake then! I do like the idea of starting Odwa rather then Lwazi though. No big fan of the latter.

  • Comment 12, posted at 17.10.11 13:46:35 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikp
     
  • Either play lambie at fh or fb not centre. We already have f. steyn,j.fourie,jdv and jdj at centre (boks). m.bosman and m.joubert not the answer at super rugby level. My 22: 1. beast 2. Bissie 3. Jannie 4. 5. Ross 6. keegan/deysel 7. Alberts/coetzee 8. Ryan/keegan 9. Charl/conrad 10. Lambie/freddie 11. Mvovo (coz of peer speed) 12. Viljoen (great passing game,reliable boot) 13. Jacobs 14. Jp 15. Ludick/lambie/odwa/gouws 16. Burden/cooper (rotation) 17. Eugene/herbst 18/19 depends who start. 20 depends who start 21. Potgieter/bosman 22. Odwa! I like to see more of gouws (seems to be the next best thing).

  • Comment 13, posted at 17.10.11 14:02:17 by Gotti Reply

     
  • @robdylan (Comment 4) :

    wouldent speak to soon hehe . will be close though . missed out a lot with Sias being my Captain for the last round and him not taking the field

    @Sharksmad – The Blog’s Dudette (Comment 5) :

    lol at this rate most of them πŸ˜›

  • Comment 14, posted at 17.10.11 14:02:36 by Zibbie Reply
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  • Either play lambie at fh or fb not centre. We already have f. steyn,j.fourie,jdv and jdj at centre (boks). m.bosman and m.joubert not the answer at super rugby level. My 22: 1. beast 2. Bissie 3. Jannie 4. 5. Ross 6. keegan/deysel 7. Alberts/coetzee 8. Ryan/keegan 9. Charl/conrad 10. Lambie/freddie 11. Mvovo (coz of peer speed) 12. Viljoen (great passing game,reliable boot) 13. Jacobs 14. Jp 15. Ludick/lambie/odwa/gouws 16. Burden/cooper (rotation) 17. Eugene/herbst 18/19 depends who start. 20 depends who start 21. Potgieter/bosman 22. Odwa! I like to see more of gouws (seems to be the next best thing). No 4 lock I don’t know. Help me out

  • Comment 15, posted at 17.10.11 14:03:17 by Gotti Reply

     
  • @Gotti (Comment 15) : Jandre Marais?

  • Comment 16, posted at 17.10.11 14:20:01 by Ice Ice Bokkie Reply
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  • @Gotti (Comment 15) : and at this stage nobody seems sure if Jacobs will be around next year…

  • Comment 17, posted at 17.10.11 14:21:20 by Ice Ice Bokkie Reply
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  • @Gotti (Comment 15) : what about JLP at centre?

  • Comment 18, posted at 17.10.11 14:24:01 by Ice Ice Bokkie Reply
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  • Haha! Having a fat convo with my alter ego!

  • Comment 19, posted at 17.10.11 14:25:19 by Ice Ice Bokkie Reply
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  • He’s got the moves like…

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=187708287973664&set=a.133026293441864.32672.131757393568754&type=1&ref=nf

  • Comment 20, posted at 17.10.11 14:29:01 by klempie Reply

    klempie
     
  • @Ice Ice Bokkie (Comment 19) :

    only you can pull that one off πŸ˜‰

  • Comment 21, posted at 17.10.11 14:32:08 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @klempie would like to see him at centre. Hopefully this wknd! Send joubert 2 ep kings. I think barry is still there.

  • Comment 22, posted at 17.10.11 14:34:34 by Gotti Reply

     
  • @ice ice bokkie I think he’ll do good playing with a experience tight 5.

  • Comment 23, posted at 17.10.11 14:37:35 by Gotti Reply

     
  • @ comment 8,

    What about Meyer at Inside center and Ludik at outside center. At least we will be strong on defence. Also, we need to blood in the youngsters instead of playing Deysel @ lock.

  • Comment 24, posted at 17.10.11 14:39:05 by dawj Reply

     
  • @Gotti (Comment 22) : who?? Dagg?

  • Comment 25, posted at 17.10.11 14:44:37 by Ice Ice Bokkie Reply
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  • Big blows but with the Boks back we won’t feel it. So can Adi play this weekend?

  • Comment 26, posted at 17.10.11 14:47:22 by Ben Reply
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  • @dawj (Comment 24) : I agree, although Deysel did a decent job past weekend. I don’t think he’s the answer.

    Should have sorted the centre situation out in the CC with the likes of Jordaan – but we did not…

  • Comment 27, posted at 17.10.11 14:48:39 by Ice Ice Bokkie Reply
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  • @ comment 8,

    We are forgetting about Hargreaves; another reason why Deysel will not be playing at Lock. Looked at the stats for the under 21’s and Jan Andre and his brother Peet tip the scales @ 115kgs. Now one of these two has to pack down in our scrum 😈

    Rob,

    Any idea if Swanepoel is returning next season?

  • Comment 28, posted at 17.10.11 15:16:10 by dawj Reply

     
  • @dawj (Comment 28) : Strange how everyone has forgot about Hargreaves.

  • Comment 29, posted at 17.10.11 15:37:16 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 29) : with all due respect to Ally – but he has not impressed a lot. Bresler and Skeate to me are ahead of him.

  • Comment 30, posted at 17.10.11 15:48:47 by Ice Ice Bokkie Reply
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  • @ comment 30,

    He had been playing with a stress frature in the back which accounted for his poor form.

    i think next year will be a defining year for him.

  • Comment 31, posted at 17.10.11 15:55:39 by dawj Reply

     
  • @Ben (Comment 29) : Just as strange as how everyone has forgotten about Lambie at flyhalf. πŸ˜₯

  • Comment 32, posted at 17.10.11 16:00:04 by SharonvanWyk Reply
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    Shaz
     
  • @dawj (Comment 31) : perhaps yes – what I meant was that he has never convinced me (ever before) of his greatness – too inconsistent in his performances. Hell – but its just my opinion. πŸ˜‰

  • Comment 33, posted at 17.10.11 16:01:03 by Ice Ice Bokkie Reply
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  • @dawj (Comment 28) : Riaan? I doubt it.

  • Comment 34, posted at 17.10.11 16:01:10 by robdylan Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 10) : I somewhat agree with your first line ,in some cases having two flyhalves in 10/12 axis can be a disaster -Johny/Flood . But then again lambie has proven to play well in the position and im not sure it would hurt his career with the boks, if anything he may adopt some of Michalaks quirks which make him such a master at first reciever. I think with the players we have at our disposal we cant afford to be conservative; Viljoen must play ,Lambie must play ,Michalak must play and Mcleod must play ! It seems to be a typical response among south africans ,that we are making a jack of all trades and that the player will suffer as a result, I disagree.
    Same goes for our forwards; Deysel, Alberts ,Skeate ,Kanko ,Daniel ,Bismarck ,Jannie ,Beast and Coetzee must play even if the value they add is in the form of an impact player off the bench -it may take a certain amount of maturity for some of our players to realise that (its probably lost on some).

  • Comment 35, posted at 17.10.11 16:14:56 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • Hope Deysel is ready, but it’s not a train smash. We now have some good cover, but he has been solid at 4 and it will be sad if he can’t play in the semi’s and finals.

  • Comment 36, posted at 17.10.11 16:20:03 by Letgo Reply
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  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 32) : no-one has forgotten – but why fiddle with a winning formula at this stage and why stuff up his chances for Boks and play him at 10 if he’s gonna be used at 15? I have an idea that FB is where Lamb’s is gonna be utilise untill Morne Steyn is out…most coaches will prefer someone like Steyn at 10 at the Boks…

  • Comment 37, posted at 17.10.11 16:22:20 by Ice Ice Bokkie Reply
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  • @Ice Ice Bokkie (Comment 37) : conservative coaches anyway…

  • Comment 38, posted at 17.10.11 16:25:38 by Ice Ice Bokkie Reply
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  • @Talent (Comment 35) :

    I don’t think that it wouldn’t work. I just meant that it would be stupid for the Sharks to play Lambie at 12, as they’d be playing with probably the smallest 10-12-13 combination in Super rugby, and I don’t see how it can do Lambie’s Springbok ambitions any good.

    If he’s a jack of all trades, regardles of whether or not it affects his form, it will harm his ambitions of settling in a position for the Boks.

    Stick him at fullback, or flyhalf, and leave him.

    Personally think Sharks supporters need to give up on trying to make him a flyhalf, but ONE POSITION please.

  • Comment 39, posted at 17.10.11 16:39:40 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikp
     
  • @Ice Ice Bokkie (Comment 37) : Pat will play wherever he is asked to, and it’s because he’s classed as a utility back that he got to go to RWC. But. And it’s a big BUT. At some point in the very near future a decision has to be made once and for all exactly in which position his future lies – a future that’s best for him and whatever team he plays for. Otherwise he will never, ever, reach his full potential. Merely keeping him on ice at 15 until Morne Steyn is out of the running, and waiting for Fred’s contract to expire may be the short-term solution, but long-term it is far from ideal in terms of Lambie’s development.
    In my opinion he needs to be given the No 10 to make his own (again) next season, irrespective of what the new Springbok coach thinks. This doesn’t prevent him playing at 15 for the Boks if they really want to continue with old Mr Up and Under, but I honestly doubt that will be the case. Far from ruining his chances of playing for the Boks, giving Pat back the No 10 will increase them by allowing him to develop and mature properly in that role.
    I don’t say this because of my well documented appreciation of the young man, but because I honestly feel that his future, and with it the future of whatever team he plays for, is best served with him in the flyhalf position.
    The funny thing is that no one would have disagreed with me this time last year. Frederick Michalak is not an international flyhalf. Patrick Lambie is. If we let him be one.

  • Comment 40, posted at 17.10.11 16:40:21 by SharonvanWyk Reply
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    Shaz
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 40) : Well said Shaz. Couldn’t agree more..

  • Comment 41, posted at 17.10.11 16:47:37 by Ben Reply
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  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 40) :

    Michalak is not an iternational flyhalf? I’m guessing you mean anymore, less I remind you he was the one who made the break which ended the All Blacks 2007 World Cup campaign.

  • Comment 42, posted at 17.10.11 16:48:02 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikp
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 42) : Less I remind you who was the player who made the break and handed off you 2nd best Bok of all time to end the WP 2010 Currie Cup campaign? 😈 πŸ˜‰

  • Comment 43, posted at 17.10.11 16:51:53 by Ben Reply
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  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 40) :

    Also, about the up-and-under tactics.

    Did you watch the Wales versus France game? With 10 minutes to go Wales were trying to bash it up with their forwards just on their own side of halfway without getting anywhere.

    I couldn’t help but think, had Fourie du Preez or Morne Steyn been able to come on, Wales would’ve had a better shot because at least they’d have put the ball into the air and given themselves a chance at moving downfield.

    Up and unders are actually a very smart option at times. Overused by the Springboks sometimes, but when you aren’t going anywhere quickly it’s the best way of trying to get the ball (play) into opposition territory.

  • Comment 44, posted at 17.10.11 16:52:14 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikp
     
  • @Ben (Comment 43) :

    Meh. Schalkie makes mistakes all the time. It’s not that he’s perfect that makes him special. It’s that you won’t see a guy put his body on the line like that, and give it his all every single game.

    How many Springboks can you say broke their neck for the cause? πŸ˜€

  • Comment 45, posted at 17.10.11 16:54:15 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikp
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 39) : That 10/12 axis is water tight in defence .Im not sure it will hurt his bok ambitions ,like Occonor plays 15,10(12?) for his franchise Lambie would play anywhere he is asked.

    I think Lambie is well suited to play at 10,15 or 12 its a matter of allowing him a game or two to catch up.
    I think we also focus on what best for the player more than whats best for the team,becuase thats what their focus should be on ultimately.

    The more I think about it the more I would like to see lambie at 12 alongside Michalak .

  • Comment 46, posted at 17.10.11 16:56:09 by Talent Reply
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    Talent
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 45) : I wasn’t argueing your case about Burger.. πŸ˜€

  • Comment 47, posted at 17.10.11 16:57:05 by Ben Reply
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  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 40) : Methinks that as long as Fred is fit and at the Sharks then Pat will be utilised at fullback, no harm in having 2 standout players in positions they excell at.

  • Comment 48, posted at 17.10.11 16:57:59 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Talent (Comment 46) :

    Hmm I’d hate to see Lambie wasted at 12. It’s far too much of a defensive role now anyway, and you need to be physical – not only in defense, but getting over the gain line.

    Even Ma’a Nonu gets go-forward ball when he’s not making breaks. I’m not so sure that Lambie is strong enough on his feet.

  • Comment 49, posted at 17.10.11 16:58:52 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikp
     
  • @Ben (Comment 47) :

    I know, but just thought I’d reinforce it :mrgreen:

    Anyway I’m out folks. Time for work. See you.

  • Comment 50, posted at 17.10.11 17:00:15 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikp
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 42) : Evidently. I have not forgotten what he did for Les Bleus. The point I am making is that he has no future as an international flyhalf, whereas Lambie has a considerable one if only he’s allowed to play in that position. I am not bashing Michalak or his considerable exploits, but merely trying to remind people that Lambie was not wearing 15 when he put 25 points on the scoreboard in last year’s Currie Cup final.

  • Comment 51, posted at 17.10.11 17:01:58 by SharonvanWyk Reply
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    Shaz
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 40) : I reckon as long as FM is being paid he’s gonna be fh. But I agree though – he needs to be settled. What good is it gonna do for him to jump between FH and FB untill someone settles him somewhere? That in essence is also stuffing him around.

  • Comment 52, posted at 17.10.11 17:02:19 by Ice Ice Bokkie Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 48) : No harm at all. But long-term it may come back to bite us in the bum. That’s my opinion, for what it’s worth. Fred was signed as a scrumhalf. He has yet to play in that position, even though he can.

  • Comment 53, posted at 17.10.11 17:06:22 by SharonvanWyk Reply
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    Shaz
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 49) :Well I think thats a cliche that south africans should drop . Size especially in the backline means sweet fa, Wynand Olivier imo is one of the worst defenders in the entire super 15 (not his tackling but his reading of the game),defence is not about size and strength its about an ability to predict or read your oppositions attack, saying that one does have to make their tackles and at rucks and mauls it is an advantage to have bigger backline players, but even this can be worked around.

  • Comment 54, posted at 17.10.11 17:09:21 by Talent Reply
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    Talent
     
  • @Ice Ice Bokkie (Comment 52) : See, it takes another beautiful blonde to get my drift… πŸ˜†
    @Talent (Comment 46) : Your argument about what’s best for the player just doesn’t hold water in this case. What’s best for the team in this case is what’s best for the player. Settling Lambie into the position he is strongest in is in my mind the best possible long-term scenario for the Sharks. And that position is fly-half. It’s the one he has consistently excelled in the most where the Sharks are concerned. And the one where he makes the biggest impact.

  • Comment 55, posted at 17.10.11 17:10:31 by SharonvanWyk Reply
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    Shaz
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 55) : You may be right !* But I think when you have two players like michalak and lambie both have to start and Lambie being the less experienced still can stand to learn from Michalk

  • Comment 56, posted at 17.10.11 17:16:58 by Talent Reply
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  • @Talent (Comment 56) : I agree. And as I have said, for the short-term this has not been a bad plan. But at some point the bigger picture has to be taken into account and some serious forward planning needs to be done or we are going to end up squandering Lambie’s truly formidable talent.

  • Comment 57, posted at 17.10.11 17:20:14 by SharonvanWyk Reply
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  • @Talent (Comment 56) : and we cant have Mich playing 12 lambie can

  • Comment 58, posted at 17.10.11 17:20:25 by Talent Reply
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    Talent
     
  • I agree with Sharon and others who call for Lambie to play flyhalf. He makes a star flyhalf in anyones books anywhere on earth.

    The Sharks have a history of being lacking in this 10 position. Now we have been blessed with a player who is not only good, he actually thrives on the style of rugby that we are used to here. We’ve tried players like David Knox, Gregor Townsend and Andy Goode at 10 in the past, all to no good effect. That’s how desperate we’ve been at times. I even remember us trying an unknown English club player back in the early 1990s who come out to play club rugby in Natal. Now we have a gift horse, we shouldn’t look it in the mouth.

    However the coach and/or the powers that be at the Sharks have done just that. So Lambie is back at 15, where being the talent that he is, he’ll do well. However I don’t think we’re maximising the benefit of having Lambie if we use him at 15 all remaining career at the Sharks long.

    More immediately, in a team lacking depth in a few positions, we are faced with a servere problem at 12 and 13. There is no quick fix available at 13 but at 12, we potentially have a solution.

    The coach does not like JLP so it is extremely difficult to see him making an about turn and starting JLP in any position. He’s had chances to utilise JLP in less important games when players weren’t showing good form and opted against this.

    I believe that we have to take the Cheetahs very very seriously and we have to put our best possible team on the field to make sure of the result.

    I would hate to see Lambie stuck anywhere but at flyhalf long-term. But for this Saturday, there is a great need at 12 and I can’t think of a better, more reliable player in the squad to fulfil that need.

  • Comment 59, posted at 17.10.11 17:22:59 by beet Reply
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  • @beet (Comment 59) : I agree 100%.

  • Comment 60, posted at 17.10.11 17:24:46 by SharonvanWyk Reply
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    Shaz
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 57) : Lambie being 21 has time on his side, he wont realise his full potential untill 24ish . I think there is so much he could benefit from by playing 12 with mich at 10, being so close to the position whereas 15 he is further away. That is where we differ from hendrikp in opinion, he sees lambie as a 15.

  • Comment 61, posted at 17.10.11 17:27:46 by Talent Reply
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  • @Talent (Comment 58) : And Leonardo was able to design birthday cards…

  • Comment 62, posted at 17.10.11 17:30:17 by SharonvanWyk Reply
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    Shaz
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 62) : My point is Lambie is not the complete article at 10 ,yet. We must also think what is best for the sharks ,[email protected] 10 with Bosman ,Joubert or Jacobs at 12 or Michalak @ 10 with Lambie @ 12;where he stands to gain alot from michalak by playing alongside of him

  • Comment 63, posted at 17.10.11 17:43:45 by Talent Reply
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  • @Talent (Comment 61) : I differ from all of you. We are in a position where we are resorting to finger in the dyke rugby – desperate measures due to a serious lack of depth in certain positions. This is the very same desperate state which saw Plumtree move Pat to No 10 all those months ago. It’s a move that won us the Currie Cup. Now, to defend it, we have to adopt other desperate measures and move the discovery of the century wherever he is needed the most.
    The big future predicament could well be this… Come SupeRugby time Meyer Bosman is in form and burning up grass in the Sharks No 12. Louis Ludik is making all the right moves at 15. Michalak is impressing with French Flair at 10. What do we do? Put Lambie on the bench?
    My point is that we have become so dependent on desperate measures selections that we are actually busy painting ourselves into one moer of a corner because of them.
    Yes, Lambie is young, but why should his talent fall forfeit to his youth? Good enough is old enough. Lambie is a flyhalf, no matter what number you stick on his back.

  • Comment 64, posted at 17.10.11 17:44:25 by SharonvanWyk Reply
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    Shaz
     
  • @Talent (Comment 63) : Lambie is not the complete article at 10 yet? But good enough to get the Sharks a trophy when they were in a tough spot with no-one to turn to… 😯

  • Comment 65, posted at 17.10.11 17:48:03 by SharonvanWyk Reply
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    Shaz
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 65) : Oh yes.. add this to the mix… Riaan Viljoen. Where do we put him next season? Vodacom Cup?

  • Comment 66, posted at 17.10.11 17:52:58 by SharonvanWyk Reply
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    Shaz
     
  • Forgive me for asking the question, but aren’t we putting the cart before the horse by rearranging the furniture to the point where our prize couch is on the stoep in order to accommodate Michalak at 10?

  • Comment 67, posted at 17.10.11 17:56:52 by SharonvanWyk Reply
    Author
    Shaz
     
  • But would Beast be allowed to play in the semi if he never started in the round robin ?

  • Comment 68, posted at 17.10.11 18:01:36 by Original Pierre Reply
    Author
    Original Pierre
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 64) : discovery of the century πŸ™„ that belongs to frans steyn excuse me πŸ˜‰ .Sharon I think the team will benefit more from playing Lambie at 12 with Michalak at 10, if it is decided to ignore the effectiveness of comboinations then we are fools . If we don’t think laterally then we will be discovered, measured and will be found wanting by more savy attacking units or turned on our asses by resilient defencive units.
    I feel as if you are concerned that lambie must play 10 in order to be in the spotlight .Trust me Lambie can learn a thing or two from Fred ,even DC could .

  • Comment 69, posted at 17.10.11 18:02:32 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @Talent (Comment 69) : Agreed. Ideally we need Lambie to play 15 but we`ve got enough cover there.

    While we have Fred he must play 10!

  • Comment 70, posted at 17.10.11 18:06:03 by Original Pierre Reply
    Author
    Original Pierre
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 65) : May have been MOTM but wasnt solely becuase of him that we won, a good platform was set by the forwards .

  • Comment 71, posted at 17.10.11 18:08:02 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @Original Pierre (Comment 68) : of course… he’s been contracted to us for 5 years. Why would he suddenly be ineligible to play for us?

  • Comment 72, posted at 17.10.11 18:12:55 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 65) : Shaz – I completely understand where you’re coming from, let’s not oversimplify this. While we all agree that Pat was sublime at 10 in the CC final last year, it’s hardly like he won the game all on his own. His forwards provided the sort of platform that day that would have made anyone bar the most inept flyhalf in the world (Morne Steyn) look good.

  • Comment 73, posted at 17.10.11 18:14:43 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @Talent (Comment 69) : I’m obviously writing in a foreign language. I have no problem with the short-term plan we have in terms of playing Pat where he is most needed. We have two matches to play (hopefully) in this year’s campaign. I am not entirely stupid (although I do do a very good imitation of it from time to time).
    What I have a problem with is the LONG TERM plan. And in my book that needs to be seriously looked at BEFORE the start of next season. Pat doesn’t deserve being pushed from pillar to post to accommodate temporary staffing solutions wherever we have a hole. He needs to be given a position in the team and allowed to grow and develop into it. My feeling is that that position should be flyhalf. Not because I want him in the spotlight, but because I want my team to win. And win well. 😎

  • Comment 74, posted at 17.10.11 18:33:01 by SharonvanWyk Reply
    Author
    Shaz
     
  • @Original Pierre (Comment 70) : I give up. You okes are completely myopic and not listening to what I am saying. “While we have Fred we must play him at 10 … ” Sounds like a first class game plan to me, packed with forward thinking and planning acumen.
    Tell you what, let’s just stick Pat permanently at 15, sell Riaan Viljoen to the highest bidder before we even play him, wave Fred goodbye when his contract is up after SupeRugby next year and then twiddle our thumbs while we ponder who our next part-time, short-term flyhalf is going to be. πŸ‘Ώ

  • Comment 75, posted at 17.10.11 18:42:48 by SharonvanWyk Reply
    Author
    Shaz
     
  • I forgot about Navickas; give him another year to pick up some extra weight he could be a star; he like a Lock/Blindside flank mix; kinda like Elstadt, and they Both are very abrasive, exactly what one wants at 4.

    @Rob, Navickas played international senior level for someone, yet? If not, Him, Elstadt and Mossie we should have very adequate replacements for Bakkies come next world Cup.

  • Comment 76, posted at 17.10.11 18:44:58 by JJR Reply
    Author
    JJR
     
  • I hereby promise never to post another single comment about Patrick Lambie on this site. I have nothing further to add. 😎
    Now then… What are we going to do with Riaan Viljoen? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 77, posted at 17.10.11 18:46:00 by SharonvanWyk Reply
    Author
    Shaz
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 74) : Im not sure its a case of where he is most needed ,although to some degree it is, its a case of what him and Michalak can produce in tandem. He can negotiate his case with whomever the next bok coach will be about where he wants to play .From a sharks perspective we wont gain an extra 5% by playing him at 10 instead of Mich however I feel we will improve our backline play alot by having to players like that so close to first reciever, saying that we also need to configure the rest of the backline carefully.

  • Comment 78, posted at 17.10.11 18:47:13 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 74) : And I didnt mean to sound patronising in that post , sorry if I did

  • Comment 79, posted at 17.10.11 18:48:29 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • Youngsters i would like to see come through and shine in the Sharks XV/Currie Cup 2012-
    -P.Jordaan
    -D.Adongo- (Turn him into a 5 like Courtney Lawes)
    -Navickas
    -Kleinhans

  • Comment 80, posted at 17.10.11 18:49:11 by JJR Reply
    Author
    JJR
     
  • @JJR (Comment 80) : Never really understood the hype about Jordaan until I saw the guy play ,again im not sure 10 is going to be his final destination.

  • Comment 81, posted at 17.10.11 18:52:56 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 77) : For me Pat needs to be a Playmaker, either at 10 or 12; Riaan’s huge boot is best used from the back. I only say Pat at 12 so that we can accomodate the Flair of Freddy and the Composure of Lambie in the same team. Playing next to each other could give good balance to their playing styles, i believe this mix can help us cope with any gameplan we need to play come superugby.

  • Comment 82, posted at 17.10.11 18:52:59 by JJR Reply
    Author
    JJR
     
  • @Talent (Comment 81) : I also don’t think his talents are best utilised at 10; i say 13 and wing. I think he would be a great 12 if his defence can improve a bit…i wanna see more aggression and technique in his tackling. He is a crazy talent; just needs to gain some senior rugby experience…i think he will do great playing in The Sharks XV next year, and then give him a run in the CC 2012.

  • Comment 83, posted at 17.10.11 18:56:00 by JJR Reply
    Author
    JJR
     
  • @JJR (Comment 82) : agreed but Sharon is concerned about the long term plan vs the short term fix of playing pat at 12 ;I dont think we should look at it like that.

  • Comment 84, posted at 17.10.11 18:57:14 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @JJR (Comment 83) : agreed would be a good 13 or even fullback. If we look at the exponential rise of pat lambie once he was exposed to senior rugby its mouth watering to think what Jordaan may become ,assuming Jordaan will react the same

  • Comment 85, posted at 17.10.11 19:00:00 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 77) : @ viljoen 15 ,lambie 12 michalak 10 -Would like to see Jordaan used at center or perhaps jlp at 13.

  • Comment 86, posted at 17.10.11 19:02:20 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @Talent (Comment 84) : Carter played at 12 for a few years early in his career too; we must think short term whilst keeping an eye on the long term. There is no point in looking at long term if we not gonna win Superugby. We have the squad that can do so next year, so we need to do anything we can to win, it’s about time we win the thing! πŸ™‚

  • Comment 87, posted at 17.10.11 19:03:21 by JJR Reply
    Author
    JJR
     
  • @Talent (Comment 86) : I really believe Jordaan could do the Job even at this stage, he is the type of player that brings his best on the Big Stage. Lambie and Jordaan would be a sick centre combo, that also looks to the future. They will show that you don’t need to be 1.90m tall to be a world class centre. Adi has shown that, but i can’t help feel that we havn’t utilised his talents to the fullest…it sucks, he is a real favourite of mine.

  • Comment 88, posted at 17.10.11 19:07:13 by JJR Reply
    Author
    JJR
     
  • I agree man ,cheers out gotta study πŸ˜₯

  • Comment 89, posted at 17.10.11 19:19:53 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 75) : Tell you what, when we sign a better center we can try Lambie at 10 or 15, untill then he`s gonna have to help us out where we need it the most.

  • Comment 90, posted at 17.10.11 19:33:33 by Original Pierre Reply
    Author
    Original Pierre
     
  • Lambie is one of the greatest youngsters produced in this country, who was probably born with BMT, he probably never even cry.

    Lambie will excel in what ever position he plays in. In the end, its up to him, and its his choice. He is still young, and he himself said he doesn’t know what’s his favourit position, he just enjoys playing. A time will come when he does. While most of us think that flyhalf is his best position, what happens 2 years down the line when he decides its centre or fullback? What I’m trying to say is I don’t Lambie minds moving around to find his future position.

    Freddie is an awesome player, with loads of flair, X-factor and is very unpredictable. He is experienced and has BMT. While he is around Lambie must learn as much as he can. There was a point in the season when Super Rugby sides were working Lambie out, as he was becoming a bit predictable.

  • Comment 91, posted at 17.10.11 19:35:56 by Mocho Reply

    Mocho
     
  • this was a good game, so much entertaining,

  • Comment 92, posted at 17.10.11 19:40:59 by Franshark Reply
    Author
    Franshark
     
  • @JJR (Comment 76) : nah. He’s already played for Russia

  • Comment 93, posted at 17.10.11 20:12:48 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 74) : Well said Sharon. I support your view 100%

    At the end of the day its up to the coaches to decide where he plays and altho he’s got totally different personality and outlook on life to Frans Steyn, I hope the Sharks don’t end up unsettling him to the extent that he looks for peace of mind elsewhere. I wud cry if he was to don on a Stormers jersey one day. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 94, posted at 17.10.11 21:00:33 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beet
     
  • @JJR (Comment 76) : there are some really good junior locks in the system at the moment. One of them is my personal u19 Sharks player of the year Pieter-Steph du Toit who has been keeping Karolis Navikas out of the starting lineup for much of the u21 CC season despite being 2 years his junior.

  • Comment 95, posted at 17.10.11 21:09:30 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beet
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 77) : I also made the case for Lambie at 10 during last week in earlier threads and I share your concerns too. Would it be extremely short-sighted to shift Lambie to fullback for the 2012 season to accommodate Fred? It’s likely. And what do we do with our other fullbacks?

    Add to that the nagging memories of the damage inflicted on Ruan Pienaar once he was labeled a utility back (and Frans Steyn to a lesser degree). I think Lambie has the mentality to weather that particular storm but it’s still a worry.

    It did however dawn on me that Lambie’s fate is in his own hands and the hands of his coaches. We can voice our concerns in these threads but it’s probably not worth arguing about it unless Plum takes a particular interest in the opinions of SW bloggers. πŸ˜€

    The point I’m getting at? You’re not alone in your opinions regarding Lambie @ 10 but I’m starting to realize just how special a player Lambie is when WP, Sharks, Lions and Bulls fans argue that is best position is either 10, 12 or 15. He’s certainly made an impression! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 96, posted at 17.10.11 22:56:36 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    vanmartin
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 40) : I’m with you.

  • Comment 97, posted at 18.10.11 07:51:43 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Letgo
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 55) : That’s what I would have said. Especially the part about impact… I don’t think he would have been nearly as influential in the 2010 CC Final, had he played from FB.

  • Comment 98, posted at 18.10.11 08:13:34 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Letgo
     
  • @Talent (Comment 56) : So play him at 12, where many a worldclass flyhalf has been an understudy to more experienced flyhalfs, Dan Carter being one of them.

  • Comment 99, posted at 18.10.11 08:15:40 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Letgo
     
  • @beet (Comment 59) : I’m enjoying this debate.

  • Comment 100, posted at 18.10.11 08:17:51 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Letgo
     
  • @SharonvanWyk (Comment 65) : There’s always room to improve Sharon and I think those calling for Lambie at 12 (including myself) sees that Lambie stands to become even better and more complete as a flyhalf from playing with Fred at 10.

  • Comment 101, posted at 18.10.11 08:21:09 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Letgo
     
  • Thanks guys and gals, really fun debate and well argued by everyone. That was fun to read. To bad I weren’t part of it, maybe next time! πŸ™‚

  • Comment 102, posted at 18.10.11 08:31:09 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Letgo
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 102) : Do you remember the name of the Englishman who played a few games at flyhalf for the Sharks in about 1994? It was Charteris or Charters. Something like that.

  • Comment 103, posted at 18.10.11 08:47:55 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beet
     
  • @beet (Comment 103) : Are you trying to figure out my age? Or do you have a genuine question following my answer? πŸ™‚

  • Comment 104, posted at 18.10.11 14:44:14 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Letgo
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 104) : I figured that since you said you’d only missed a couple of games over many seasons, you were born into a diehard rugby supporting family, so the answer if not stored away in a remote part of your brain coz you were too young at the time, might just be a phonecall or short conversation away :mrgreen:

  • Comment 105, posted at 18.10.11 14:48:34 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beet
     
  • @beet (Comment 105) : I was born in Welkom, Freestate and watched my first live Sharks game in Welkom against the Griffons when Dick Muir, James Small, Henry Honibal, Cabous, Kevin Put and those guys were still playing. I think it was just before or just after the 95 World Cup, I’m not so sure… I was around 9 or 10 at the time.

    My first Kings Park game came in 2000 against the Reds, Tim Horan, Chris Lathem, Elton Flatley, John Eales and the likes were still playing for ther Reds… that was when they were still good before they became good again and that was when Warren Brosnihan played for us. It was a horrible game and I was sitting as far away as I possibly could, and I loved it.

    We bought season tickets the year after that, so that’s 10 years of going to basically every game, aside from the year I spent in the US.

    Now you know, full disclosure.

  • Comment 106, posted at 18.10.11 15:08:00 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Letgo
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 106) : we still don’t have the answer to his question!! πŸ˜‰ I’d love to know the answer too!

  • Comment 107, posted at 18.10.11 15:18:57 by Ice Ice Bokkie Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 106) : Wasn’t the Welkom team called the Purple People Eaters. Northern Freestate and the dreaded Eric Herbert with his deadly boot.
    You’re still a youngster. I would not worry about my age if I were you.
    I think the first time I watched Tim Horan live was in 1994 in the Super 10 final. He was an unbelievably good player. Super quick with amazing ball handling skills. In fact one of the best that I’ve ever seen. Sadly either broke his leg or damaged his knee in that game and was never quite the same player after that.
    My first game was in the mid 80s when the Sharks were still a B-section team captained by lock Anton Botha. Hugh Reece-Edwards, Craig Jamieson and Vleis Visagie are just is about the only recognizable names but I remember other guys.

  • Comment 108, posted at 18.10.11 15:23:39 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beet
     
  • @Ice Ice Bokkie (Comment 107) : We should ask that oke that hangs around here to add some value for a change. Whatshisname! Dylanrob or something.

  • Comment 109, posted at 18.10.11 15:25:47 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beet
     
  • @beet (Comment 109) : Oh, so you’re actually wondering who it was.

  • Comment 110, posted at 18.10.11 15:48:54 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Letgo
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 110) : I remember Honibal as our 10 for as long as I remember until all the other no namers and then Butch and then Brent Russel for about 15seconds, before a bunch of others and then Lambie…finally!

  • Comment 111, posted at 18.10.11 15:50:48 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Letgo
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 111) : Let me correct that, not no namers, but really there was about 10 in 10 years and I’m hoping Lambie wil be the one for the next 10.

  • Comment 112, posted at 18.10.11 15:51:37 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Letgo
     
  • @beet (Comment 108) : Andre Botha.

  • Comment 113, posted at 18.10.11 16:04:51 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the Subtle
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 111) : Thierry Lacroix was there during the Honiball era. So were Stansky and Lance Sherrel in his early days. So was strong Clinton van Rensburg towards the end. Then came Gaffie du Toit.

  • Comment 114, posted at 18.10.11 16:07:06 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beet
     
  • @beet (Comment 114) : I think Butch came after Gaffie.

  • Comment 115, posted at 18.10.11 16:08:04 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beet
     
  • @beet (Comment 114) : I don’t remember Sherrel.

  • Comment 116, posted at 18.10.11 17:47:48 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Letgo
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 116) : but yes, all the rest I know.

  • Comment 117, posted at 18.10.11 17:51:25 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Letgo
     
  • @beet (Comment 103) : Paul Chalinor

  • Comment 118, posted at 18.10.11 17:56:55 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @Salmonoid (Comment 113) : 😳 Andre Botha. He was one of those players that never seemed to get injured. Like Tony Watson.

    Thanks Salmonoid. πŸ™‚

  • Comment 119, posted at 18.10.11 19:38:48 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beet
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 116) : Lance Sherrel..did he not date / married an ex Miss SA?

  • Comment 120, posted at 19.10.11 08:24:00 by Ice Ice Bokkie Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
     
  • I fully agree with 1 of the earlier posts about our best players all being on the field at the same time. If you look at the All Blacks and Ozzies that is the way they are going. They are not too concerned about positions in the loose trio and backline as a lot of the game takes place from broken play where positions dont really matter but individuals do. So get the likes of Lambie,Michalak,Viljoen,Mvovo,Jordaan etc on the field at the same time. Same goes with Alberts,Deysel,Kanko etc.

  • Comment 121, posted at 19.10.11 08:51:12 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @Ice Ice Bokkie (Comment 120) : Sasha Lee Walton.
    Know your models Ice! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 122, posted at 19.10.11 09:03:31 by Original Pierre Reply
    Author
    Original Pierre
     
  • @beet (Comment 119) : It was long ago, yes he played forever I think he played more than 100 games for Natal and that took some doing when the only competitions played were Currie Cup and Lion Cup (knockout format) rugby.

  • Comment 123, posted at 19.10.11 09:34:05 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the Subtle
     
  • @Original Pierre (Comment 122) : That’s it! You obviously know your models! πŸ˜†

  • Comment 124, posted at 19.10.11 09:52:56 by Ice Ice Bokkie Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
     

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