So 2011 has come and gone (at least from a rugby perspective), and once again we, the Sharks fans, are faced with the familiar prospect of a year that, despite the cards being stacked in our favour (favourable Super 15 draw; talented, settled, and largely happy squad; player depth in all positions) failed to live up to our lofty, and not entirely unreasonable expectations. As can be expected in such a situation, there has been a lot of commentary, critique, speculation and wishes for what could have-, or should have been from all quarters. One particular aspect that has been very much a topic of debate has been the perceived failings of the Sharks’ recruitment- and succession planning/youth development program.
While I have been one of the people at the forefront of the “we need to back our young players” chorus, the fact remains that young players normally need time to mature and be ready for the demands of top-flight rugby. Alternatively, it is entirely possible for junior players to have reached the required skill and conditioning level, only to find themselves faced with little to no opportunities to break into the senior squad due to low player turnover, in which case they may decide to seek their fortunes elsewhere. It is of course also entirely possible that players who display all the necessary potential and performance levels as juniors never quite manage to make the final step up.
What should be clear from above is that situations can and do arise whereby the departure of senior players result in vacancies for which there are simply no suitable junior candidates available, regardless of how well the union’s succession program is run. Clearly, the recruitment of external players must necessarily form an integral part of any successful union’s strategy, with the important aspect being how well these recruitments are integrated with existing player development programs. So with that in mind I decided to forego my usual emotional/hysterical/delusional approach, and rather look at the facts objectively (in other words, using the What Would Morné Do? approach) in a quest to answer the following two questions:
- How good/bad* are the Sharks at recruiting?
- How good/bad* are the Sharks at developing talent?
(*Settle down, I am well aware that preaching objectivity and then using woolly and imprecise terms like good & bad on a site overrun by accountants and actuaries and statisticians and people hung up spelling and other sticklers for detail is just asking to be lectured at, so to save you all the effort I’ve pointed out my failings upfront. Forewarned is forearmed and all that jazz.)
In order to arrive at some sort of sensible conclusion, I have compiled a list of the Sharks squads from 2007 to present. 2007 has been specifically selected as a starting point as that was arguably the year of our highest achievement, when we almost won (and should have won) the Super 14. Furthermore, the 2007 squad appears to the most highly regarded squad of the last decade or so in the mind of most Sharks fans. The squad lists are tabulated below, and the following applies to the information listed:
– Squads listed are a combination of both the Super Rugby and Currie Cup squads for the year. By virtue of players losses to Springbok duty, the Currie Cup squads tend to feature more fringe players, who do not necessarily feature strongly in terms of game time
– External player acquisitions during each year is highlighted in red, with the union (or country, in the event of players playing abroad) being listed after the player’s name
– Players highlighted in blue are players who have been added to the senior squad having come through at least once preceding season of junior rugby, be it U-21’s, Vodacom Cup, etc.
– Players to have left the squad during or at the end of the year’s names are marked with a strikethrough
| 2007 | 2008 | 2009 | 2010 | 2011 | |
| Props | BJ Botha | BJ Botha | BJ Botha | ||
| Tendai Mtawarira | Tendai Mtawarira | Tendai Mtawarira | Tendai Mtawarira | Tendai Mtawarira | |
| Deon Carstens | Deon Carstens | Deon Carstens | Deon Carstens | Patric Cilliers | |
| Patric Cilliers | Patric Cilliers | Patric Cilliers | Patric Cilliers | Jannie du Plessis | |
| Kees Lensing | Kees Lensing | Robbie Harris | Jannie du Plessis | Dale Chadwick | |
| Robbie Harris (Pumas) | Robbie Harris | Jannie du Plessis | Melusi Mthethwa | Wiehahn Herbst | |
| David Hawksworth | David Hawksworth | Melusi Mthethwa | Dale Chadwick | Julian Redelinghuys | |
| Ronnie Uys (Leopards) | Ronnie Uys | Dale Chadwick | Wiehahn Herbst | Sabelo Nhlapo | |
| Jannie du Plessis (FS) | Wiehahn Herbst | Julian Redelinghuys | Eugene van Staden | ||
| Melusi Mthethwa | Julian Redelinghuys | Sabelo Nhlapo | |||
| Eugene van Staden (France) | |||||
| Hookers | Skipper Badenhorst | Skipper Badenhorst | Skipper Badenhorst | Skipper Badenhorst | Bismarck du Plessis |
| Bismarck du Plessis | Bismarck du Plessis | Bismarck du Plessis | Bismarck du Plessis | John Smit | |
| John Smit | John Smit | John Smit | John Smit | Craig Burden | |
| Craig Burden | Craig Burden | Craig Burden | Craig Burden | Kyle Cooper | |
| Jody Jenneker | Jody Jenneker | Kyle Cooper | Monde Hadebe | ||
| Pellow vd Westhuizen (Leopards) | Pellow vd Westhuizen | ||||
| Locks | Johann Ackermann | Johann Ackermann | Johann Muller | Johann Muller | Steven Sykes |
| Johann Muller | Johann Muller | Steven Sykes | Steven Sykes | Ali Hargreaves | |
| Steven Sykes | Steven Sykes | Albert van den Berg | Ali Hargreaves | Gerhard Mostert | |
| Albert van den Berg | Albert van den Berg | Ali Hargreaves | Gerhard Mostert (Lions) | Anton Bresler | |
| Dewald Senekal | Ali Hargreaves | Wilhelm Steenkamp (Bulls) | Ross Skeate | ||
| Ali Hargreaves | Wouter Moore | Anton Bresler | Jandre Marais | ||
| Wouter Moore (FS) | Jeandre Mynhardt | Ross Skeate (France) | Peet Marais | ||
| Jeandre Mynhardt (Leopards) | Joe Snyman | ||||
| Loose Forwards | Jacques Botes | Jacques Botes | Jacques Botes | Jacques Botes | Jacques Botes |
| Warren Britz | Warren Britz | Keegan Daniel | Keegan Daniel | Keegan Daniel | |
| Keegan Daniel | Keegan Daniel | Ryan Kankowski | Ryan Kankowski | Ryan Kankowski | |
| Ryan Kankowski | Ryan Kankowski | Nikolai Blignaut | Nikolai Blignaut | Jean Deysel | |
| Bob Skinstad | Bob Skinstad | Jean Deysel | Jean Deysel | Skholiwe Ndlovu | |
| AJ Venter | AJ Venter | Skholiwe Ndlovu | Skholiwe Ndlovu | Mike Rhodes | |
| Nikolai Blignaut | Nikolai Blignaut | Nic Strauss | Justin Downey | Willem Alberts | |
| Jean Deysel (Lions) | Jean Deysel | Justin Downey | Mike Rhodes | Marcell Coetzee | |
| Thabo Mamojele (Pumas) | Thabo Mamojele | Mike Rhodes | Willem Alberts (Lions) | Lambert Groenewald | |
| Skholiwe Ndlovu | Skholiwe Ndlovu | Daniel Adongo | |||
| Epi Taone (Tonga) | Francois Kleinhans | ||||
| Rudie Mathee (Lions) | Lubabalo Mthembu | ||||
| Nic Strauss (UK) | |||||
| Scrumhalves | Ruan Pienaar | Ruan Pienaar | Ruan Pienaar | Ruan Pienaar | Ruan Pienaar |
| Sandile Nxumalo | Sandile Nxumalo | Rory Kockott | Rory Kockott | Rory Kockott | |
| Rory Kockott | Rory Kockott | Scott Mathie | Charl McCleod | Charl McCleod | |
| Scott Mathie | Scott Mathie | Charl McCleod | Ross Cronje | Ross Cronje | |
| Neil Cole | Neil Cole | Ross Cronje | Conrad Hoffman (WP) | ||
| Charl McCleod (Valke) | Cobus Reinach | ||||
| Flyhalves | Butch James | Butch James | Monty Dumond | Monty Dumond | Monty Dumond |
| Monty Dumond (WP) | Monty Dumond | Frederic Michalak | Guy Cronje | Guy Cronje | |
| Tiaan Marx (Leopards) | Tiaan Marx | Andrew Borgen | Juan Martin Hernandez | Patrick Lambie | |
| Frederic Michalak (France) | Guy Cronje | Patrick Lambie | Steve Meyer | ||
| Andrew Borgen | Juan Martin Hernandez (Arg.) | Len Olivier | Andre Pretorius | ||
| Patrick Lambie | Andy Goode (UK) | Frederic Michalak (France) | |||
| Len Olivier (Valke) | Steve Meyer (France) | Jacques-Louis Potgieter (Bulls) | |||
| Andre Pretorius (Aus) | |||||
| Centres | Brad Barritt | Brad Barritt | Brad Barritt | ||
| Gcobani Bobo | Gcobani Bobo | Waylon Murray | Waylon Murray | Adi Jacobs | |
| Waylon Murray | Waylon Murray | Adi Jacobs | Adi Jacobs | Andries Strauss | |
| Grant Rees | Grant Rees | Andries Strauss | Andries Strauss | Riaan Swanepoel | |
| Adi Jacobs | Adi Jacobs | Riaan Swanepoel | Riaan Swanepoel | Luzuko Vulindlu | |
| Andries Strauss | Andries Strauss | Luzuko Vulindlu | Luzuko Vulindlu | Meyer Bosman (FS) | |
| Dumisane Matyeshana (Leopards) | Dumisane Matyeshana | Lionel Mapoe (FS) | Marius Joubert (France) | ||
| Riaan Swanepoel | Paul Jordaan | ||||
| Heimar Williams | |||||
| Back Three | Odwa Ndungane | Odwa Ndungane | Odwa Ndungane | Odwa Ndungane | Odwa Ndungane |
| Dusty Noble | Dusty Noble | JP Pietersen | JP Pietersen | JP Pietersen | |
| Howard Noble | Howard Noble | Henno Mentz | Stefan Terblanche | Stefan Terblanche | |
| JP Pietersen | JP Pietersen | Frans Steyn | Chris Jordaan | Lwazi Mvovo | |
| Henno Mentz | Henno Mentz | Stefan Terblanche | Lwazi Mvovo | Louis Ludik | |
| Frans Steyn | Frans Steyn | Wesley Bodmer | Louis Ludik (Lions) | Gouws Prinsloo | |
| Cedric Mkhize | Cedric Mkhize | Chris Jordaan | Mark Richards | ||
| Stefan Terblanche (Wales) | Stefan Terblanche | Lwazi Mvovo | Sbura Sithole | ||
| Wesley Bodmer | Rosco Specman | ||||
| Chris Jordaan | |||||
| Lwazi Mvovo | |||||
All of the above is obviously a lot of information to digest in one go, even for detail junkies. In order to make it more digestible, I have grouped the names of additions to the squad into 3 categories, namely recruitments from the big 4 unions (WP, Bulls, Lions, FS) and abroad, recruitments from small unions, and internally developed players.
| Recruited From Big Unions | Recruited From Small Unions | Juniors | |
| 1 | Wouter Moore | Robbie Harris | David Hawksworth |
| 2 | Jean Deysel | Ronnie Uys | Craig Burden |
| 3 | Monty Dumond | Pellow vd Westhuizen | Jody Jenneker |
| 4 | Stefan Terblanche | Jeandre Mynhardt | Ali Hargreaves |
| 5 | Jannie du Plessis | Thabo Mamojele | Nikolai Blignaut |
| 6 | Epi Taone | Tiaan Marx | Skholiwe Ndlovu |
| 7 | Rudie Mathee | Dumisane Matyeshana | Neil Cole |
| 8 | Frederic Michalak | Charl McCleod | Melusi Mthethwa |
| 9 | Juan Martin Hernandez | Len Olivier | Joe Snyman |
| 10 | Gerhard Mostert | Nic Strauss | |
| 11 | Wilhelm Steenkamp | Andrew Borgen | |
| 12 | Ross Skeate | Riaan Swanepoel | |
| 13 | Willem Alberts | Wesley Bodmer | |
| 14 | Andy Goode | Chris Jordaan | |
| 15 | Steve Meyer | Lwazi Mvovo | |
| 16 | Andre Pretorius | Dale Chadwick | |
| 17 | Lionel Mapoe | Wiehahn Herbst | |
| 18 | Louis Ludik | Julian Redelinghuys | |
| 19 | Conrad Hoffman | Justin Downey | |
| 20 | Jacques-Louis Potgieter | Mike Rhodes | |
| 21 | Meyer Bosman | Ross Cronje | |
| 22 | Marius Joubert | Guy Cronje | |
| 23 | Patrick Lambie | ||
| 24 | Luzuko Vulindlu | ||
| 25 | Sabelo Nhlapo | ||
| 26 | Kyle Cooper | ||
| 27 | Anton Bresler | ||
| 28 | Monde Hadebe | ||
| 29 | Jandre Marais | ||
| 30 | Peet Marais | ||
| 31 | Marcell Coetzee | ||
| 32 | Lambert Groenewald | ||
| 33 | Daniel Adongo | ||
| 34 | Francois Kleinhans | ||
| 35 | Lubabalo Mthembu | ||
| 36 | Cobus Reinach | ||
| 37 | Paul Jordaan | ||
| 38 | Heimar Williams | ||
| 39 | Gouws Prinsloo | ||
| 40 | Mark Richards | ||
| 41 | Sbura Sithole | ||
| 42 | Rosco Specman |
When viewed like this, some trends emerge. Firstly, with regards to external recruitments, the Sharks clearly favour recruiting from larger unions or abroad, with these signings (22 in total) outnumbering signings from smaller unions (9) by more than 100%. Furthermore, the rate of signing from large unions appears to be on the increase, whereas the last small-union signings were made in 2008 and 2009 (one in each year). Interestingly enough, the number of juniors added to the squad (42) during the period being observed outnumbers external recruitments by 33%, and the number of juniors added to the squad peaked in 2011.
All of the aforementioned would at first glance suggest a healthy developmental plan delivering a steady stream of juniors into the senior ranks. However, the devil is in the detail as they say, and it is on closer inspection of the three categories that some of the underlying problems are thrown in clear relief. Asking the question: “How much value has each person added to the Sharks?” in each of the three categories causes the proverbial can of worms to open.
In terms of the external recruitments from large unions, only 6 players (Deysel, Terblanche, Du Plessis, Skeate, Alberts and Ludik) can be said to have added value over a period in excess of a year. Arguably, it could be said Fred Michalak, although only contracted for around a year (on two separate occasions) has justified the expense incurred to sign him, while the jury is still out on the recent signings of Bosman, Hoffman and Joubert (although when I ran into the jury over lunch in the canteen, they looked far from happy). As for Jacques-Louis Potgieter, the mere fact that he has so rarely been utilised makes him a poor investment, regardless of talent or ability. As for smaller union signings, only Charl McCleod can be thought of as a decent investment. What this translates to in terms of recruitments from beyond the union adding value is an current effectiveness of 26% (8 out of 31), with a potential of rising to 33% (11/33) should our 2011 signings prove their worth. Not particularly inspiring reading, particularly when combined with the contracting disasters of Taone, Mapoe and Meyer.
Applying the same logic to juniors, we find that 10 players (Burden, Swanepoel, Hargreaves, Mvovo, Chadwick, Herbst, Lambie, Bresler, Coetzee, Sithole) have had regular game time as part of the senior squad, with an additional 3 (Cooper, Jandre Marais, Richards) having consistently been on the fringes of the squad. Hauling out my mad mathematical skillz, that translates to 24 – 31% (10/13 out of 42) effectiveness.
Even more perturbing in the bigger picture is the alarmingly high number of players, particularly from the smaller union recruitments and junior ranks who are brought into the squad, only to vanish from the face of planet Sharks within the year, or to remain on the outside without ever getting a look in.
While there is still much that can be gleaned from the info, I’ll leave that to the more technically astute among you. If the information presented was a little dry and overly-detailed, I apologise – more drug-fuelled madness next time, I promise. What I hope is that this provides some though for thought, cause for debate, and possible an overhaul of a very, very important (and poorly functioning) aspect of Sharks Rugby. Until then, I live in hope!
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A very well put together article I must say! I still think the Sharks have had a pretty decent year. Yes winning every title every year would be great…but this isnt fantasy rugby! Im also a fan of using players that come through the ranks rather than recruiting but at the end of the day there are only 22 places available each week so there will be guys who feel they should be playing but are just too far down the pecking order. Yes the Bulls and Lions etc are signging Sharks players…but whats happening to those Bulls and Lions youngsters coming through…where they gonna play…the Sharks??
Morne…it that you and what did you do with Culling Song? 😯
Very nice article.
You have to say that, even without looking at this, the Sharks recruitment has been absolutley crap hasnt it?
Strauli’s ability to sign has beens and let go fairly promising youngsters is almost uncanny.
Look at the ‘centres’ columns, we havent had a really world class centre combo since, well clearly since before 2007 because I cant see anything world class in any of those columns.
The back 3 isnt much better with only JP and Mvovo holding their own.
The pack looks ok exept at lock. This probably explains our lack of game plan if the pack doesnt perform…we just dont have centres and the outside backs to compensate.
Awesome work CS. Much respect for the effort made. 🙂
Our scrumhalf and centre situations are particularly worrying if we look at those 2011 columns. 🙁
@Pokkel (Comment 2) : I reckon all the wine I was drinking in the sun over the weekend temporarily cause me to morph into Morne. Now I’ll have to drink whisky in the dark to restore the balance. 😆
so speaking of Joe Snyman… looks like the Lions just turfed him
@Culling Song (Comment 6) :
Thanks for the impromptu invite on Saturday! It was fun.
@Pokkel (Comment 8) :
to top it off we couldn’t be held liable for any Sharks losses! 😀
@Pokkel (Comment 8) : I downloaded IOS 5.01 for my iPhone. Features a handy in-built app where you basically dictate the article in your mind and the phone types it. Don’t get a Blackberry; they’re waaaaayyyy behind when it comes to mind control.
@Pokkel (Comment 9) : Cool to have you guys over; must do so more often!
@robdylan: wonder if johan snyman will be re-joining the sharks then?
Or moving to the bulls..?
@robdylan (Comment 7) : sad sad moment .. every time he played he played very well .
but yea . lets see what happens . good luck to the guy
@Culling Song :CS, this was a good read, lotse facts but good insight…
@bergshark (Comment 12) : way to start a rumour 🙂
@Culling Song (Comment 10) : hahaha 😉
The last good centre combo the Sharks had was Bradley Barrit and Waylon Murray
@Culling Song (Comment 6) : @Pokkel (Comment 2) :
Haha, leave me out of it but what a great article. From experience I know this type of data compilation takes time to gather, let alone put forward to readers to consume.
At first glance my reaction would be compared to other unions, I don’t think you will see much difference in two areas – recruitment from big and smaller unions.
As for recruiting or developing juniors however, you have reason to be concerned as Sharks and WP follow a very similar pattern.
The problem is two-fold imo – one, the guy contracting does not know his arse from his elbow, and two, coaches at the respective unions are clueless specifically on how to develop talent.
Although this article mainly focus on recruitment, it also gives some insight as to who or what type of quality has been lost over the years (players becoming stars elsewhere or star players being screwed over and leaving). That would be another interesting article.
@Morné (Comment 18) : yes… you need to apply just one more filter over this… of the young guys who came through (named in SR or CC squads), how many went on to earn 5 or more caps…
@robdylan (Comment 19) :
Yes
Let’s have a look at this…
We started out with this
@robdylan (Comment 21) : of those juniors, the following left without ever establishing themselves:
Hawksworth
Jenneker
Blignaut
Ndlovu
Cole
Mthethwa
Snyman
Borgen
Bodmer
Jordaan
Downey
Rhodes
Ross Cronje
Guy Cronje
Vulindlu
Nhlapo
Groenewald
Adongo
The following, despite being named in a squad, have yet to be capped:
Williams
Jordaan
Mthembu
Specman
And the following have fewer than 5 caps:
Richards
Prinsloo
Reinach
Kleinhans
Peet Marais
Hadebe
Redelinghuys
that’s 29… so subtract that from 41 (Strauss shouldn’t have been in that category cos he left to play in the UK before coming back) and you only have 12 players left.
How does that look?
I left out Swanepoel, because he kind of did establish himself, before leaving.
So who does that leave us? Who is established in the current side that has come through our youth structures?
Hargreaves
Mvovo
Chadwick
Herbst
Lambie
Cooper
Bresler
Jandre Marais
Coetzee
Sithole
@robdylan (Comment 22) : Good work Rob.
add to that 11 players that we’ve bought from “elsewhere” that are still in the picture
@robdylan (Comment 25) : if we increase the criteria to 10 caps then even more of those guys fall out…
@robdylan (Comment 25) : ha ha… and which of those guys ia a first-choice starter?
Answer: only Lambie.
so, in short, all that the Sharks Academy has really produced for the benefit of the Sharks over the last 5 years is Pat Lambie 🙂
Great article CS!
A lot or recruitment is hit and miss – human development is a complex business and a wildcard at the best of times, but I’m afraid that I rate the Sharks at the bottom of the barrel.
If you ask me whether I trust the talent-spotting abilities of Heyneke Meyer or Plumtree, I have no hesitation in saying its the former.
@robdylan (Comment 25) :
Bliksem I wish I had the time to do a WP analysis based on similar data – I would almost guarantee you a similar read!
I am so gatvol of this bloody fat (read old) -boys club running this beautiful game.
@Morné (Comment 32) : running or ruining?
@Morné (Comment 32) :
You will see much the same picture @ the Lions im sure . Only Taute and Jantjies really came through our ranks
@robdylan (Comment 30) : I like the additional analysis you’ve done, Rob. I think there’s still a lot that can be done with the data, e.g. comparing quality of departing players to that of their replacements, trends in terms of average squad caps, etc.
@Culling Song (Comment 35) : I just think that the Sharks pay lip service to junior player development a lot of the time… Naming them in squads, inviting them to practice, etc, but never actually backing them when the chips are down by playing them
@robdylan (Comment 33) :
Given the context mate – same thing.
@Morné (Comment 37) : time for a revolution?
@Morné (Comment 18) : Agreed. Hence I’m of the view of RS and Plum are a screwed up combo.
@robdylan (Comment 36) : Its always a tough call to throw in untried youngsters when you have a lot of established and experienced players. Just a silly example..if Bismarck had 2 very average games would you then put Hadebe in? Will Bismarck really play 3 bad in a row? Its things like that that a coach has to consider. Its easy to play youngsters when you dont have the big names…
@SheldonK (Comment 40) : hooker is a bad example mate… Sharks have an ebarrassingly overstocked hooker cupboard (oo-er) and have for some years.
What about lock? When the chips are down, even a guy like Bresler is deemed not good enough and Plum opts to play Deysel out of position instead. Or centre? How many more mediocre games do we need a Marius Joubert to play in a row?
@robdylan (Comment 41) : Yeh look i know hooker was a silly example but i wnated to exaggerate things a bit. The lock situation is a bit puzzling but i think Plum just wanted to have Deysel,Alberts,Keegan and Kanko on the field so he went that route. As for the centres im guessing his thinking was as i said above (he was backing his senior players to deliver sometime as they surely couldnt always be off their game) and I guess in hindsight they never did deliver. Hopefully he has learnt from that…time will tell i guess. What does interest me is how coaches with a lot of big names (meaning Boks) manage their teams as in Super Rugby they will have the big names to call on but what about in CC when all the Boks arent available and all the juniors have gone elsewhere in search of a chance to maybe play Super Rugby….
@SheldonK (Comment 42) : Plum was wrong to pay Deysel ahead of a specialist lock. I think we all like to get blinded by the prospect of having Alberts and Deysel together on the park but the sad reality is that they don’t complement each other because they’re too similar and (dare I say) one-dimensional in what they offer.
Would Plum have picked Deysel at lock ahead of Sykes, Mostert, or another experienced (“name”) player? No… so to my mind, this is completely about him not wanting to back younger players, even those who have already got 20 caps (Bresler) and have never let the side down.
@robdylan (Comment 43) : Look im with you there in that i would have picked Bresler and had Alberts or Deysel play off the bench. I really dont think coaches utilise their bench properly as it is a 22man game now (and no they dont all need to come on at 60min). I also feel that Plum missed a trick in not carrying on with the guys that started the CC…guys like Chadwick, Sithole and even Prinsloo. Guys like Odwa,JP,Jannie etc could have been used either as an impact off the bench. To answer the question of whether youngsters will be used in Super Rugby..im going to think no to be honest. Mayb if the guys in charge have half an idea they would select a team for the Vodacom Cup that would then go on and play in the CC…now that would be development and continuity…
@SheldonK (Comment 44) : Super Rugby is just so long now that I think you’re going to have to dig into your reserve depth at some point….
simply can’t have a repeat of this year where a guy like Alberts is played literally into the ground.
@robdylan (Comment 45) : Well Rob rewind 12 months and we said the same thing bout Super Rugby in 2011…its a long comp and we need a big squad and have to rest and rotate players. How many SA sides rested and rotated guys? And how many times did NZ sides rotate players? And who won the RWC…just a thought
@robdylan (Comment 36) : What would be interesting would be to see how many players who came through the junior ranks while Dick Muir was head coach went on to amass, say, 10 caps or more, and to contrast that with Plum’s stats.
Now *that* would make for sobering reading, I’m sure… 🙄
@Culling Song (Comment 47) : U cant really compare because the side Muir had didnt have a lot of established players and Boks like Plum does now.
@SheldonK (Comment 48) : Fair comment. So maybe one should look over the various coaches reigns, and see how many of the established/marquee players that left during their tenure was replaced by junior players, excpressed as a percentage? This would still not be an absolute measurement, but I’m sure the trends would be quite instructive.
@Culling Song (Comment 49) : Its hard to judge a coach by the youngsters he uses as it all depends who he has at his disposal to start with. This year Plum has brought in Marcell Coetzee and Sbu Sithole, and they have both aquitted themselves very well. There hasnt been much space elsewhere for him to bring in players (i wont touch on centres) except maybe at lock.
@SheldonK (Comment 50) : This year, I actually think we have done quite well in terms of giving youngsters opportunities. My concern is that when taking a slightly longer term view, we seem to include heaps on youngsters in our squads, but that very few of them are given any sort of meanigful opportunity; it sort of gives me the sense that it’s window-dressing more than anyone else. I don’t necessarily want to lay the blame for this solely at Plum’s feet though (though I do believe he should shoulder a significant portion of the blame), as there are a lot behind the scenes dealings that I have no insight into.
@Culling Song (Comment 51) : I dont think that including youngsters in training squads is window dressing at all. These youngsters are keeping to train and learn from Boks in the most part and in some cases World Cup winners! Maybe the vision at the Sharks is longer than we think and things are taken out of their hands by youngsters wanting to play now rather than in a couple years which the Sharks had in mind.
@SheldonK (Comment 52) : I like your positive outlook regarding the Sharks, but I’m afraid I don’t share it…
@Culling Song (Comment 53) : I guess i just feel things are a lot more positive being a Sharks fan than a Cheetahs,Leopards or EP Kings fan hey.
@bergshark (Comment 12) :
As far as I have heard he’s going to the Kings.
The way the the Lions treated him is disgusting in the extreme and the fruit of will be felt.
this is rather extensive analysis 😛
@Big Fish (Comment 31) : yip.
I guess if you do the percentages and take all the purchasers as 100% then those that happened to be bad should not be too much. But having said that the Sharks are buying a lot.
@Bump: thanks for the info.
wish him all the best at the kings .glad to see he isn’t in the rugby wilderness but managed to get a contract at another rugby union.
@Bump (Comment 55) :
sadly i have to agree …