9 Sharks in trimmed Baby Bok squad

Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks on 16 Nov 2011 at 18:54
Tagged with : , , , , , ,

SA Under 20 coach Dawie Theron has named a slimmed-down 48-man squad to take part in a training camp in Cape Town during December. A number of players who weren’t available to attend the 100-man trial session earlier in the month have been included, among them three Sharks juniors.

Sharks under 19 captain Allan Dell missed the trial due to the lingering effects of a knee injury picked up earlier in the year, but he has been included along with team mate Guy Alexander, who also didn’t make the trial session. Paul Jordaan, a returnee from last year’s Baby Bok squad, is also back in the mix having recovered from a spider bite. You just can’t make this stuff up!

Two of Jordaan’s Sharks under 21 teammates have also made the grade, with Siseko Jafta and the impressive Pieter Steph du Toit both in the frame. A quartet of other Sharks under 19 lads are there as well; hooker Franco Marais, prop Maks van Dyk, flank Khaya Majola and phenomenal schoolboy winger Siyabonga Tom, bringing the Sharks complement to an impressive 9 players.

Other big names in the group include Free State’s Johan Goosen, Western Province’s Steven Kitshoff and the Bulls-bound Grey College centre pairing of Dries Swanepoel and Jan Serffontein.

The SA U20 squad for the Stellenbosch camp is:

Wian Fourie (Border); Hendri Christian Rust, Richard Dean Gorrah, Andile Jho, Dries Swanepoel, Hendrik van Wyk, Jan Serfontein, Juan Nel, Marvin Orie, Marzuq Maarman, Rudi van Rooyen, Schalk van Heerden, Tony Jantjies, Travis Ismail, Wian Liebenberg, Shaun Adendorf (all Blue Bulls); Henco Venter, Hlanhla Hlungwane, Jan de Klerk, Johan Goosen, Kevin Luiters, Maphutha Dolo, Mathys Smit, Niel Marais, Niell Jordaan (all Free State); Errol Jaggers, Ettiene Oosthuizen, Fabian Booysen, Gideon Muller, Henri Boshoff, Mark Pretorius, Paul Willemse, Ruan Botha, Vian van der Walt (all Golden Lions); Allan Dell, Franco Marais, Guy Alexander, Khaya Majola, Nicolaas van Dyk, Paul Jordaan, Pieter Steph du Toit, Siseko Jafta, Siyabonga Tom (all KZN); Francois Grobler (Leopards); Cobus Nel, Jacobs van Wyk, Patrick Howard, Steven Kitshoff (all WP).


  • still wanna know who you guys think will play no.13,Pat Howard or Willa Small-Smith,not even including Dries Swanepoel,don’t he’s that good yet

  • Comment 1, posted at 16.11.11 19:09:09 by Ludz Reply
  • @Ludz (Comment 1) :
    Pat Howard without a doubt!

  • Comment 2, posted at 16.11.11 19:16:08 by steve Reply
  • Ludz as good as andile is I think christopher bosch is better because he can create space with those linebreaks.

  • Comment 3, posted at 16.11.11 19:17:44 by Muzi Reply
  • @Steve Pat Howard is the favourite to start because it was between him and william.

  • Comment 4, posted at 16.11.11 19:19:08 by Muzi Reply
  • Ludz william missed out bud I would play serfontein at wing.

  • Comment 5, posted at 16.11.11 19:20:43 by Muzi Reply
  • Well done to all those selected. Let’s hope this side can get into the semis at least. Last year was not great but the the format of the tournament is flawed! For Glenwood supporters on the blog, please see my list of recent Old Boys doing well. Please add if you see any missing;

    1) Kyle Cooper – Sharks hooker
    2) Fred Zeilanga – Sharks Under21 flyhalf
    3) Shaun Malton – Sharks Under21 hooker and Captain
    4) Warren Whiteley – Lions No 8
    5) John Roy-Jenkinson – Pumas Under 21 and SA Under 20 prop
    6) Shaun Adendorff – Bulls Under19 Flank
    7) Meyrick Walker – Bulls Under19 Flank
    8) Nanyak Dala – Canada Flank at the World Cup
    9) Senzo Mtshali – Sharks Under 19 hooker
    10) Alwyn Janse Van Rensburg – Sharks Under 19 flank
    11) Wade Elliot – Sharks Under 19 lock
    12) Siyabonga Tom – SA Schools wing and Sharks Under 19 wing – in grade 11
    13) Francois Kleyneins – Sharks Under 21 and SA Under 20
    14) Kobus Lourens – Leopards centre
    15) Brendon Groenewald – Cheetahs Under21 No8
    16) Dexter Fahey – Sharks Academy & Shimlas Varsity Cup
    17) Ian Adendorff – Sharks Acadeny & Shimlas Varsity Cup

  • Comment 6, posted at 16.11.11 19:23:17 by Grasshopper Reply
  • My backline would look like this:15.Neil Marais 14.Ismael 13.Howard 12.Jordaan 11.Serfontein 10.Goosen 9.Rudi

  • Comment 7, posted at 16.11.11 19:24:14 by Muzi Reply
  • @steve (Comment 2) : agree with you my man,am a Bulls fan,but think Pat Howard is a tad better than WSS,Willa will end up at wing in my opinion,particularly at the Bulls,it’s his best bet,particularly at the Bulls.

  • Comment 8, posted at 16.11.11 19:25:22 by Ludz Reply
  • Grasshopper I would say shaun adendorff surprised a few people he did not even make the craven week side yet he has made it to the training squad ahead of the highly rated nardus van der walt.

  • Comment 9, posted at 16.11.11 19:27:47 by Muzi Reply
  • William will play vodacom cup next year I doubt he will jump a player like beyers he should kick out adri jacobs.

  • Comment 10, posted at 16.11.11 19:30:45 by Muzi Reply
  • @Muzi (Comment 3) : christopher bosch is one of the best in that regard bud,reckon he should be there,much better than Ace

  • Comment 11, posted at 16.11.11 19:31:06 by Ludz Reply
  • Who knows maybe dries swanepoel will sneak in I mean the kid can jol.

  • Comment 12, posted at 16.11.11 19:32:30 by Muzi Reply
  • @Muzi, good backline that! Yep, Shaun maybe a tad lucky, he obviously played well at the trials or Sean Erasmus’s consultancy is paying off for Glenwood Old Boys 😉

  • Comment 13, posted at 16.11.11 19:32:47 by Grasshopper Reply
  • @Muzi (Comment 5) : have to agree with you on Jan Serfontein,isn’t Willa with the 7s? Hence the exclusion. Like your backline,I must say,but 1 wing should be WP winger Tshotsho Mbovane

  • Comment 14, posted at 16.11.11 19:34:56 by Ludz Reply
  • Ludz if I was andile jho I would leave the bulls.Bosch and Small Smith are ahead of him he will not get enough opportunities next year.

  • Comment 15, posted at 16.11.11 19:35:17 by Muzi Reply
  • @Ludz and Muzi, what would be your pack selection?

  • Comment 16, posted at 16.11.11 19:35:49 by Grasshopper Reply
  • Willa,Tsotso and Craig Barry have sevens contracts.

  • Comment 17, posted at 16.11.11 19:38:19 by Muzi Reply
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 16) : loosehead Kitshoff,hooker might be Franco Marais and tighthead possibly Dell,4. Pieter-Steph du Toit 5. Ruan Venter,think he’s injured at the moment and openside Wiaan Liebenberg and blindside Siseko Jafta and 8thman possibly Shaun Adendorff

  • Comment 18, posted at 16.11.11 19:42:39 by Ludz Reply
  • Grasshopper Dawie likes massive packs BUT I would select this pack:1.Dell 2.??? 3.Ginger Kitsoff 4.Ruan Botha 5.Steph 6.Liebenberg 7.Jafta 8.Neil Jordaan iHave no clue I would select at hooker.

  • Comment 19, posted at 16.11.11 19:46:22 by Muzi Reply
  • Ludz I think that grey college number 8 Neill Jordaan is massive so he will make it.

  • Comment 20, posted at 16.11.11 19:47:57 by Muzi Reply
  • Wish we’d got jordaan 🙁

  • Comment 21, posted at 16.11.11 19:57:35 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
  • @Muzi (Comment 20) : @robdylan (Comment 21) : now let me tell you guys,this is one player I’ve never seen what all the fuss is about,really don’t see anything special in Jordaan,what do you guys think of Guy Alexander?

  • Comment 22, posted at 16.11.11 20:07:56 by Ludz Reply

  • @Muzi, I would say Jordaan is big not massive. Only 6foot3 and 105kg is not scary at Under20 level. Shaun Adendorff is about the same. They not quite in the Alberts mould but might get bigger with age. The English flanks I watched here recently were nearing the 110kg mark.

  • Comment 23, posted at 16.11.11 20:08:11 by Grasshopper Reply

  • also not too sure about hooker,just guessed Franco Marais since Jason Thomas was excluded

  • Comment 24, posted at 16.11.11 20:11:30 by Ludz Reply

  • Ludz dnt look at me lol if you want information concerning guy alexander then go talk to beet and rob.

  • Comment 25, posted at 16.11.11 20:20:59 by Muzi Reply

  • Grasshopper I’d move young schalk van heerden to 7.

  • Comment 26, posted at 16.11.11 20:25:10 by Muzi Reply

  • I reckon we play Paul Willemse to get some more size in the pack. He must be in the Kobus Wiese mould!

  • Comment 27, posted at 16.11.11 20:27:11 by Grasshopper Reply

  • @Grasshopper (Comment 27) : I agree he is 1.99m and over 130 kg. I’m surprised Ruan Botha wasn’t included in this squad. He out played both Bulls U19 locks In the final

  • Comment 28, posted at 16.11.11 20:52:36 by slammerboy Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • @Muzi (Comment 7) : Why play Serfontein at wing? Surely his best position is centre. I for one am keen to see what he can do in the 13 jersey against the cream of junior rugby.

  • Comment 29, posted at 16.11.11 20:57:04 by slammerboy Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • What happened to Sean Robinson, the fullback everyone was banging on about a few days back?

  • Comment 30, posted at 16.11.11 21:00:47 by Grasshopper Reply

  • @Ludz (Comment 1) :Hey Ludz. Sorry I’m late to the party but my combo wud be Jan Serfontein and Paul Jordaan. However I believe that Dawie will be keeping close tabs on Dries Swanepoel. Remember both GCB were invited to trials last year. Dries is also a possible captain for next year so giving him some exposure wud be good.

    I like Pat Howard. I hope he’s in the mix but right now I see him as an outsider, unless like Hendrik suggested Jan plays wing, in which case Pat wud make a good 12.

    But more than antthing, with juniors able to virtually reinvent themselves overnight, I hope Dawie gives himself enough opports to pick the form guys with the talent.

  • Comment 31, posted at 16.11.11 21:12:56 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • @Ludz (Comment 18) : I haven’t seen him play this year but based on past experience, Neil Jordaan is a class act. I say him with Wiaan and Siseko with the 3 of them fighting it out for the captaincy.

  • Comment 32, posted at 16.11.11 21:17:51 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 23) : Shaun is lean muscle. He looks more like a wing. He’s been playing openside flank this season.

  • Comment 33, posted at 16.11.11 21:20:23 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • @Beet, yep I know he is a gym freak. Here is the last pic I have seen of him from a couple of years ago;

  • Comment 34, posted at 16.11.11 21:26:31 by Grasshopper Reply

  • @Muzi (Comment 26) : I was thinking the same thing earlier this evening Schalk at blindside. I like his physical approach.

    I’m not so keen on Willemse at lock. He’s got good grunt at the breakdowns and is a good ballcarrier but his lineout work worries me. If we come up against those same tall English locks from a couple of years ago, we need to hold our own in the setpiece. I know we can use Jafta and Wiaan, but a lock has to be able to get up quickly at 4 and I’m not sure he can do that.

  • Comment 35, posted at 16.11.11 21:28:17 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • @beet (Comment 32) : can’t say am a fan,he’s good,but nothing to write home about in my opinion. This is 1 player which I differ alot from people about,I’d give the captaincy to Wiaan,Allan Dell won’t have much of a chance after the Sharks u19’s dismal campaign,the bulk of the players will probably be Bulls boys,Liebenberg in that case would be the logical choice. Bulls loose forward tend to be preferred as captains with van Velze,Stander,Botha all captaining the Baby Boks in their u20 years,with Ebersohn being the exception in 09 both in terms of position and union

  • Comment 36, posted at 16.11.11 21:30:57 by Ludz Reply

  • @Grasshopper (Comment 34) : the thing is he’s not bulky, so that yster primary ballcarrier from school that fearlessly put his body on the line time and time again to smash the defensive wall has been replaced by a guy who plies his trade in a far different way these days.

  • Comment 37, posted at 16.11.11 21:33:49 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • Wow okay.

    Can’t quite see the logic in inviting some of these guys along to a longer training camp, giving them more opportunity over other players who only had a few days in Kimberley.

    Marzuq Maarman was behind Jason Thomas & Jaco Visagie at the Bulls U19, but now makes SA U20 ahead of them?

    Went with Hendri Christian Rust (you guys might know who he is) as an inside back, but no Fred Zeilinga or Dillyn Leyds. What your opinion on Tony Jantjies making it beet? Not a case of living off his brothers reputation?

    Guessing Ruan Venter must still be injured as well.

  • Comment 38, posted at 16.11.11 21:36:24 by hendrikp Reply

  • @Beet, Ah, so he become a fetcher then? Here is a more recent pic;

  • Comment 39, posted at 16.11.11 21:37:43 by Grasshopper Reply

  • @beet (Comment 35) : I’ve said before in previous discussions the locks will probably be Pieter Steph du Toit and Ruan Venter with Willemse or Oosthuizen as potential backup. Think Dawie will take 3 locks and a 4th player who can cover locks/looseforward. A few years ago (2009) one of the English locks was none other than Courtney Lawes and they dont get much bigger taller than him. I’m not sure if they have that sort of player next year. I can find out. One of my mates is a rugby agent who looks after a few of this years Eng U20 squad. I’ll ask him

  • Comment 40, posted at 16.11.11 21:37:55 by slammerboy Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • I’m guessing that Tshotsho Mbovane, Craig Barry & William Small-Smith all have Sevens contracts.

  • Comment 41, posted at 16.11.11 21:38:23 by hendrikp Reply

  • @Ludz (Comment 36) : we were slow out the blocks but we only lost 2 game in the 2nd half of the season and that was to the u19 finalists. We ran the winners close and had a good comeback against the Bulls, winning the 2nd half. So there was a lot of improvement that Sharks players showed during the season. However I get where you are going and the captaincy thing is interesting research.

    I also think the way the Lions pack dominated u19 is going to help a few of their tight forwards like their hooker to gain some recognition.

  • Comment 42, posted at 16.11.11 21:40:10 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • @hendrikp (Comment 41) : I think they’re all in the training squad however only Small-Smith is included for the first three rounds of the series

  • Comment 43, posted at 16.11.11 21:42:41 by slammerboy Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • @hendrikp (Comment 38) : I’m not really a big fan of Tony Jantjies. He isn’t an X-factor player but where he is extremely good is reading situations and understanding the movements of players around him.So I think his communication skills are good. His passing game is good. This means he has at times been a good playmaker by just exercising good options. He doesn’t make many errors. His basics are good. Personally I think he’s a little slow off the mark so I worry that he’ll take too long to set himself for clearance kicks. His kicking out of hand is decent and he can kick for poles. I get excited when guys like Goosen, Jordaan and Leyds get the ball but Tony just doesn’t do it for me. I’ll like to see how he performs behind a struggling pack without established centres like at the Sharks u19 in the first part of the season. See if he can cope, control the game and give direction then.

  • Comment 44, posted at 16.11.11 21:52:52 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • @hendrikp (Comment 38) : as I was saying earlier,there are some pretty questionable selections here. Andile Jho for instance

  • Comment 45, posted at 16.11.11 21:53:26 by Ludz Reply

  • @Ludz (Comment 45) : did Andile tear up the Queens midfield in 2009 and 2010? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 46, posted at 16.11.11 21:59:19 by slammerboy Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • @Ludz (Comment 45) :

    More then a little frustrating, but I guess we’re going to have to give it a chance.

    Would like an explanation as to why some of these guys who didn’t even feature for their provinces have been called up all of a sudden. Seems really stupid.

  • Comment 47, posted at 16.11.11 22:01:21 by hendrikp Reply

  • @beet (Comment 42) : yeah that hooker might just be the answer at 2,he played well in the final,outside of the final though,don’t think I saw the Lion u19s at all,any lads who could spring a surprise or two?

  • Comment 48, posted at 16.11.11 22:02:58 by Ludz Reply

  • @beet (Comment 44) :

    Cheers :mrgreen:

    @Ludz (Comment 45) :

    Another one being Gideon Muller ahead of Pieter Stemmet. Stemmet having overtaken him for the Lions U19’s, but now losing out to Muller who was not in the original squad.

    Can’t help but feel frustrated, or think that there must be something we haven’t been told.

  • Comment 49, posted at 16.11.11 22:03:37 by hendrikp Reply

  • @slammerboy (Comment 40) : England had 1 lock that towered above our guys last year.

    I don’t think Dawie will make the same mistake again. 3 specialist locks and a versatile 1 like you say wud be a good idea. I like your starting locks. Another player I really liked from hisschool days was Grey College lock now WP l/fwd Cobus Nel, but Schalk v Heerden is a big tough boy who will stand up to the AB challenge so I also like the idea of trying to use him at flank cover. The 2 Lions u19 guys were terrific at scrumtime, cleaned out well in rucks, did their share of carrying but made me worry a bit at lineout time. Their no.8 Ruaan Lerm was the lineout goto man this season. If the coach trusted the 2 locks to take good ball, I didn’t see it but there was limited amounts of u19 rugby on TV this year. So much could have happened in non-televised games.

  • Comment 50, posted at 16.11.11 22:03:42 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • @beet (Comment 50) : That’s Joe Launchbury. He’s been a regular for Wasps playing at blindside. Had a good season but a few weeks ago did his ankle ligaments. Ja Dawie messed up last year not taking an extra lock and was then forced to play Cook in that position. All 4 Lions U19 locks were pretty good – Ruan Venter, Ruan Botha, Ettienne Oosthuizen and Paul Willemse.

  • Comment 51, posted at 16.11.11 22:08:54 by slammerboy Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • @hendrikp (Comment 49) : you must send me an email. [email protected]. I have a feeling there is something very important that ur overlooking.

  • Comment 52, posted at 16.11.11 22:10:10 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • @slammerboy (Comment 46) : hahaha the away fixture last year,have to concede he was a handful,the home fixture Josh Stander absolutely killed him with some big hits. In 09,as good as he was that year,he wasn’t a factor against,more like Tera Mthembu,he was a thorn

  • Comment 53, posted at 16.11.11 22:10:32 by Ludz Reply

  • @beet (Comment 52) :

    Done. Overlooking, overlooking 😕

    Might be something involving a %.

  • Comment 54, posted at 16.11.11 22:16:21 by hendrikp Reply

  • @beet (Comment 50) : After watching his 1st game against Border at CW last year,thought that Cobus Nel was a shoe in for SA Schools,didn’t quite turn out like that,but I’ve liked him ever since

  • Comment 55, posted at 16.11.11 22:17:17 by Ludz Reply

  • @hendrikp (Comment 54) :

    My opinion on this squad…

    Far too many Bulls players again. Last year was the same story.

    15 from 48 is a crazy number.

  • Comment 56, posted at 16.11.11 22:18:23 by hendrikp Reply

  • @beet (Comment 42) : Lions hooker Mark Pretorius is definately in with a shout – he captained the U19’s and had a good season all round and as we know winning the tournament gets you noticed.
    re the locks i’m pretty sure Ruan Venter will be the 1st choice and the question will be who backs him up – probably Pieter Steph and Ruan Botha. Paul willemse is a possibility if they want a bit of bulk.

  • Comment 57, posted at 16.11.11 22:21:03 by steve Reply

  • Another one.

    Mathys Smit ahead of David Schmidt. Both Lions players, with Schmidt having started the entire season, but now losing out to an unknown.


  • Comment 58, posted at 16.11.11 22:27:00 by hendrikp Reply

  • @beet (Comment 52) :

    Cheers for that. Frustrating none the less :mrgreen:

  • Comment 59, posted at 16.11.11 22:34:34 by hendrikp Reply

  • @hendrikp (Comment 58) : travesty that young players are exposed to such things,it must kill them mentally. Always admired Dawie Theron at the Griquas,but don’t think he’s the man to take the u20s forward,his selections are strange at times,this year he left out Frans Malherbe and Marcel Coetzee who would’ve added value,after having left Taute out due to SR duty,he recalls him after Craig Barry gets injured. He took two specialist locks to an international tournament and the cover was a loose forward who sometimes plays at lock

  • Comment 60, posted at 16.11.11 22:39:24 by Ludz Reply

  • @hendrikp (Comment 58) : I’m surprised that Marais Schmidt isnt in this group – I thought that he had a good season at 10 and 15 and also showed that he could play at a higher level when he played for the u21’s.
    i think that a lot of people underestimate the step up required from being a schoolboy star to performing consistently at U19 CC level and then at U21.

    There is a massive difference between Craven week and the u20 world cup as we found out last year so i am not a fan of taking 18-19 yr olds who havent yet proven themselves at U19 CC level.

  • Comment 61, posted at 16.11.11 22:40:41 by steve Reply

  • @hendrikp (Comment 54) : glare…

  • Comment 62, posted at 16.11.11 22:42:24 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
  • @robdylan (Comment 62) :

    The % of Bulls players hey. Ridiculous 😆

    @Ludz (Comment 60) :

    Dawie in with the other ‘old men’ who’ve fallen behind in the modern game. Works for him at the Griquas where all he needs is a few players with talent & a disciplined squad. The Griquas never find it difficult to recruit talented players.

  • Comment 63, posted at 16.11.11 22:46:35 by hendrikp Reply

  • @Ludz (Comment 60) : I think we have to give Theron a chance to prove himself. No doubt 2011 was a learning curve for him and his coaching team. I agree that some of his selections this year were very puzzling. Re Malherbe, Kitshoff and Taute did he not try and select them but was told they were unavailable due to SR commitments? Marcel not being selected was probably due to him committing to the Sharks instead of going on the warm up tour to Argentina. In this case Marcel’s loss was Kleynhans’s gain

  • Comment 64, posted at 16.11.11 22:49:14 by slammerboy Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • @slammerboy (Comment 64) :

    Only Taute was unavailable (which is another reason I don’t think Mitchell should coach the Boks. Put his own interests ahead of that of a SA national team). Rassie was more then willing to let Kitshoff & Malherbe participate (also Scarra Ntubeni).

    He just refused to pick them as they had not attended some of his training camps because of SR commitments.

  • Comment 65, posted at 16.11.11 22:52:28 by hendrikp Reply

  • @hendrikp (Comment 65) : yeah that’s what I thought also,only Taute wasn’t released. If he’s going to exclude the lads who won’t be at training camps due to SR commitments,he might as well scratch Kitshoff and Goosen off the list

  • Comment 66, posted at 16.11.11 23:02:20 by Ludz Reply

  • @Ludz (Comment 66) :

    Seems he’s had a change of heart.

    Too arrogant heading into it last year probably.

  • Comment 67, posted at 16.11.11 23:10:58 by hendrikp Reply

  • @Ludz (Comment 66) : I think SARU may need to step in and make the call. I think if the lad has a chance of playing in the U20 tournament he should be given the chance to shine. Taute and Goosen are both 1st choice in their positions so may not go whereas Kitshoff is not. If it is the case that these guys wont be selected then what’s the point of including them in these training and prelim squads.

  • Comment 68, posted at 16.11.11 23:11:30 by slammerboy Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • @slammerboy (Comment 68) :

    Doesn’t matter this time around what their status is with their franchises (whether they start or not). It only matters whether they are part of the extended squad.

    The tournament takes place during the 3-week break, while the Springboks are playing England.

  • Comment 69, posted at 16.11.11 23:14:56 by hendrikp Reply

  • At the risk of sounding like a stuck record, I really think a lot more restructuring of our junior programme as a whole in SA is needed.

    Winning the JWC should be the primary objective every year and all plans made from Nov to Jun should revolve around putting the Baby Boks in the best possible possie to achieve this goal.

    For example if our team could play say 10 games together against decent local oppo prior to the JWC, we wud be so much better off for doing it.

  • Comment 70, posted at 16.11.11 23:19:26 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • @Beet, totally agree. The reason we looked undercooked at these champs is because we are! The England squad play a good 10 games in the Under21 6 nations and play some local club sides to gel a bit. Our lot get thrown together and expected to gel as a team in 5 games. Also, the England boys are playing club rugby earlier so playing men at a young age preparing them for that level. We should have warm-up games against province Under21 sides and maybe even some Currie Cup sides to prepare them. With our school talent and depth we should be winning this tournament easily every year…

  • Comment 71, posted at 17.11.11 00:15:13 by Grasshopper Reply

  • @beet (Comment 70) : agree with you completely there. It needs to be restructured with a look at winning the tournament,more especially next year cause this current group will play in SA and remember last year people saying that this was the most talented age-group to come out of school in a very long time. Must say also they were the 1st SA u18 group to beat England u18 in something like 5 or 4 years,so a lot is expected of them,with regards to size,we won’t catch up with them anytime soon,as I understand it,in Eng and Aus they finish school at 17,don’t know if I’m misinformed,anyone care to confirm that for me? Maori boys are just genetically big,so that explains NZ

  • Comment 72, posted at 17.11.11 05:38:14 by Ludz Reply

  • @beet (Comment 70) : I’ve thought for some time that the selection process at this level has been a shambles selected by a Bulls/OFS cabal that has resulted in representation from those provinces totally disproportionate to their actual performances at U19 CC level.
    by way of example the Lions won the U19 CC and have 9 players in the squad – the same as OFS (excluding the Bulls bound Grey boys) and the Bulls have 15!!
    These are the same geniuses who last year wanted to include 17 yr old schoolboys and yet totally ignored pat Lambie in 2009 when he had been the SA schools fullback in 2007 and 2008.
    Frankly scraping in against England U18 at home in 2009 is IMO hardly cause for celebration – we should be benchmarking NZ and be disppointed if we are not beating them consistently

  • Comment 73, posted at 17.11.11 08:20:43 by steve Reply

  • @steve (Comment 73) : So true Steve.
    We should make the ABs the benchmark.

  • Comment 74, posted at 17.11.11 08:24:10 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • :mrgreen: come now people what did you expect Eric Sauls is in charge of the bulls junior development programme he knows all these bulls junior players well and he is dawie therons assistant even add Pine Pienaar. 😉

    Expect the bulls to dominate team selection again 🙂
    Lets be honest we dominated the currie cup under 19 comp only to choke in the final against a pumped up lions side led by Ruan Botha. 😈

  • Comment 75, posted at 17.11.11 08:28:59 by Muzi Reply

  • We know how to condition our players very well look at that full back Juan Nel he has big guns Boet. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 76, posted at 17.11.11 08:30:28 by Muzi Reply

  • One of the things that I’ve witnessed this season that’s disappointed me is at Sharks u19 games, the video footage, presumably for video analysis after the game is recorded on a cheap hand held Camcorder. I don’t even think it’s HD and the cameraman isn’t even a professional. It’s a bit of a joke IMHO. This is an outdated technique.

    Dawie can’t make it to all the u19 games, so I can only hope that he requests these substandard home videos and watches them. I just wonder if the same thing goes on at other Unions when SS aren’t there to televise the games.

    If Dawie bases himself in Gauteng, he’s in the best position to see Bulls, Lions and Leopards players live. However he’s gonna need good footage of the other 3 big teams. Either that or he’s going to have to rely a lot on the opinions of others and the trial games.

  • Comment 77, posted at 17.11.11 08:35:28 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • Here are some interesting things that Morné had to say after Theron’s appointment a year ago:

    You will find that coaches today have quite comprehensive databases of players at all levels and all age-groups.

    It is the reality of coaching today, and a guy like Dawie will be accutely aware of the situation at age-group level since Griquas will only be able to pick up the scraps once the bigger unions hauled out the big chequebooks for the ‘popular’ players.

    Talent identification then will be a strong point for Dawie where he will have to rely more on just a player’s reputation (Craven week, went to school A, B or C) and actually look at any youngster’s rugby ability.

    Another great strength of Dawie will be the fact that he is almost used to building a new team or squad every year after Griquas gets raped and pillaged from bigger unions contracting the stars he has unearthed through above mentioned scouting abilities.

    Dawie is also big on discipline, which is vital in a youth structure environment.

    I wish him all the best, and I am sure I will see Dawie in a Bok coach senior blazer in years to come.


    In my mind the first logical step would be to asses ones structures which is what Dawie will do I am sure.

    Look at the existing structures that support age group rugby at national, provincial and club/school level.

    Secondly I would look at support structures and staff I would want to bring on-board. Now SA Rugby already employ a host of people whose job it is to identify, nurture and manage age group rugby projects. This would include U/16 and U/18 national competitions like the Craven Week, high performance squads etc.

    These are things (SA Rugby controlled) which he can influence/change directly.

    I would then personally go and see each rugby union in SA to build up a relationship especially with their U/19 coaches.

    Lastly I would make a point of getting in contact with at least the top 20 schools in SA. Ask SA Rugby for financial backing and get the coaches to collect video material on games of their schools and players and possibly ask them for quarterly reports on players they reckon to watch, or on the up.

    This will give Dawie a base of well over 500 of the top talent in SA.

    He is on a three year contract so I would imagine that he will depend quite a bit on the current structures for the first year, following which his programs with unions and schools should start kicking in nicely.

    In order, his priorities should include;


    Each of those main criteria’s would have about 10 sub-divisions with a structure in place to support it.

    In my mind, Dawie’s success is not so much in winning the IRB U/20 comps, it is how many Boks that comes through his structures end up in the senior team in 2 or 3 years from now.

  • Comment 78, posted at 17.11.11 08:38:48 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • @beet (Comment 78) :

    Don’t quite share the same enthusiasm about Dawie, but hoping he proves me wrong :mrgreen:

    Off topic. What did you make of Richardt Strauss when he was still playing in SA?

    While with the Cheetahs I thought he was an excellent player, and I’ve been watching a few Leinster games lately where he’s been easily one of the top hookers in Europe.

    A real shame that he didn’t quite get the opportunities in SA. Should’ve looked beyond the Cheetahs who already had Adriaan Strauss. He’d fit nicely into that Stormers front-row at the moment. Hard as nails.

    Unfortunately has committed himself to playing for Ireland when he qualifies. 😕

  • Comment 79, posted at 17.11.11 08:43:40 by hendrikp Reply

  • @Muzi (Comment 75) :

    Like you dominated the Super 15, and then have half the Springbok side loaded with these guys!

    Points to players being selected on a reputation created for them by the people in Pretoria.

    It’s embarrassing that a side with 10+ Springboks lose to the Griquas and can’t make the Currie Cup play-offs. How cheap has the Bok jersey become 👿

  • Comment 80, posted at 17.11.11 08:47:44 by hendrikp Reply

  • Agreed, surprising Schmidt left out although he played most of the season at 15. Watched Duncan Campbell Lions flyhalf all season, this boy has talent! He also went to Kimberley for the trials. His inclusion in the Lions u19 team played a major part in them winning the u19 Currie Cup. Definitely in a league above Lleyds and Zielinga. Watch him continue to blossom in the future!

  • Comment 81, posted at 17.11.11 08:53:11 by lion Reply

  • @lion (Comment 81) :

    Can’t recall seeing a ‘Duncan Campbell’ on the list of players invited to Kimberley.

    And seems a bit biased putting him ahead of Leyds (who by all accounts was brilliant for WP U19) and Zeilinga (who had little opportunity playing at a higher level, but off the bench).

  • Comment 82, posted at 17.11.11 08:56:18 by hendrikp Reply

  • Rest assured he was there, and incidentally don’t think Zeilinga went although he was on the list. Ok ok, we are all entitled to our own opinions….I just voiced mine. I am sure they are also good players. Look forward to watching Campbell in Varsity Cup next year.

  • Comment 83, posted at 17.11.11 09:09:12 by lion Reply

  • @hendrikp (Comment 82) : Some of you might not rate little Tony Jantjies but the stats prove he was the best junior under 19 flyhalf he scored over 200 points alone he will be back up to Goosen. 🙂

  • Comment 84, posted at 17.11.11 09:13:41 by Muzi Reply

  • Zeilinga should have played for the sharks under 19s he was warming the bench for the most part of the season.

  • Comment 85, posted at 17.11.11 09:15:21 by Muzi Reply

  • @Muzi (Comment 84) :

    Not saying I don’t rate him. I know nothing about him. Just interesting that so many Bulls players are in there, again. This year we had to put up with a handful in the starting line-up who were bloody hopeless :mrgreen:

    But saying he’s the best because of points scored isn’t right. I’d also have the most points scored if I had more attempts at kicking penalties & coversions.

  • Comment 86, posted at 17.11.11 09:43:39 by hendrikp Reply

  • 15 Blue Bulls in that group. Maak die bulletjies almal bokkies 😈

  • Comment 87, posted at 17.11.11 09:47:43 by JarsonX Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition WinnerCompetition Winner
  • @JarsonX (Comment 87) :

    Hopefully that Pretoria logic changes rather soon.

    Otherwise we’ll continue with having a CC side made up of mostly Springboks, losing to sides like the Pumas & Griquas.

  • Comment 88, posted at 17.11.11 09:49:42 by hendrikp Reply

  • @hendrikp (Comment 88) : I like that logic 😉

  • Comment 89, posted at 17.11.11 09:53:40 by JarsonX Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition WinnerCompetition Winner
  • @Muzi (Comment 85) : it was a source of some frustration to the Sharks u19 coaches that Fred was poached… But also a bit of a feeling in the side that he was coasting with the u19s and not really committed to the team cause.

  • Comment 90, posted at 17.11.11 09:55:17 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
  • @hendrikp (Comment 79) : I sometimes worry about the GP and the Top 14. Coz there are more teams, I think the general standard of play isn’t as high as it could be if they reduced it to say 8 teams and even the top 14. I think some guys have earned a rep coz they’ve come from tougher S/Hem leagues and now find the going much easier up North. Riki Flutey is always a name I assoc with this. I watched Regan King the other day in France. He’s in the same boat.

    I first watched Richardt play reserve flank for the u19 Baby Boks way back in 2004 when his cousie was the hooker, Plouw was captain and Spies was wing. It was good team. Many players went on to establish themselves at senior level. My thought back then were that Richardt is too small to go far in rugby. He’s proven me so wrong. But he was blitz quick like a wing back then.

    These days I notice more and more small hookers in SBR and I like to compare them to RS. I beleive that what they may lack in size and scrumming power, they need to make up for in pure explosiveness around the park, so that people mistake them for the 4th loosie. This is what RS is. Dynamite in a small package. I’ve always liked him when he was with Vrystaat, except maybe in that last CC final he played in vs the Bulls when he was frustrated and lost his cool.

    Honestly until the Stormers have Malherbe and Kitshoff as the established frontrow, scaring the living daylights out of oppo., I kind of feel safer with Tiaan there to take on the stonger scrumaging teams and a Deon type guy or even a Strauss to play impact off the bench or start against weaker packs.

  • Comment 91, posted at 17.11.11 09:59:03 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • @JarsonX (Comment 89) :

    And I can’t stand it! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 92, posted at 17.11.11 09:59:13 by hendrikp Reply

  • @lion (Comment 83) : What do you think of Ruaan Lerm and Vian vd Watt?

    I like both these guys. I think they have been monumental in the Lions u19 winning campaign.

  • Comment 93, posted at 17.11.11 10:01:19 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • @beet (Comment 91) :

    Never been too worried about the Stormers scrummaging (not recently anyway). They hold their own most of the time, and there aren’t enough scrums in a game to justify picking a team to do just that, unless of course you’re getting crushed.

    It’s the mongrels on defense & at the breakdowns that I really miss.

    He probably would be a better fit around 2 ‘stronger’ props, but heck I’d kill for someone with a bit of aggression.

    With Liebenberg we’ll always be settling for average, while all the other sides have players acting as a 4th loose-forward making a big impact. Deon Fourie not much better either :mrgreen:

  • Comment 94, posted at 17.11.11 10:08:04 by hendrikp Reply

  • Beet…to true, both Vian and Ruaan are talents to watch along with a number of the other Young Lions. To beat The Bulls(no matter what age group) is a tough ask, and to do it in a Final was super. They really did well as a unit.

  • Comment 95, posted at 17.11.11 10:22:50 by lion Reply

  • @lion (Comment 95) : welcome to the site, Lion

  • Comment 96, posted at 17.11.11 10:31:47 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 30) : I see no one has answered Grasshopper’s question in post 30, so I’d like to ask it again as I’m curious about it too:

    What happened to Sean Robinson, the fullback everyone was banging on about a few days back?

  • Comment 97, posted at 17.11.11 10:58:24 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
  • @vanmartin (Comment 97) :

    They don’t often select ’93 babies.

    Only guys in the current squad not born in 92 being: Marvin Orie, Nhlanhla Hlongwane, Dries Swanepoel, Jan Serfontein & Siyabonga Tom.

  • Comment 98, posted at 17.11.11 11:09:43 by hendrikp Reply

  • @hendrikp (Comment 98) : Thanks, is this in order to try and ensure some continuity in the squad?

  • Comment 99, posted at 17.11.11 11:16:12 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
  • @vanmartin (Comment 99) :

    I’ve got no idea hey.

    I can’t see that a player can change so much in 1 year out of school. Many ’93 players will no doubt be better then some of these guys, and will be missing out simply because of their age.

    But I’m not the one selecting the squad, and have less knowledge about these players so can’t criticize too much either :mrgreen:

  • Comment 100, posted at 17.11.11 11:26:38 by hendrikp Reply

  • @hendrikp (Comment 100) : Same here, I’m trying to improve my rugby knowledge when it comes to age-group teams so I try and follow all these threads along with the comments but I’m still way out of my depth at the moment.

  • Comment 101, posted at 17.11.11 12:00:22 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
  • @Lion, I think you must have Lions glasses on as Zeilanga is a far classier player than Campbell. Campbell only went to Craven Week because Zeilanga broke his leg…..

  • Comment 102, posted at 17.11.11 12:15:38 by Grasshopper Reply

  • @vanmartin (Comment 101) : For the record, Sean Robinson isn’t the only talented player who didn’t get a look this time around.

    Province have a gem in Tim Swiel from Bishops.

  • Comment 103, posted at 17.11.11 12:21:58 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 102) : the question is who outplayed who in 2010 when Glenwood came up against Westville?

  • Comment 104, posted at 17.11.11 12:22:35 by slammerboy Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • @slammerboy (Comment 104) : That game was like the KZN final to decide no.1. I really enjoyed it. Trench warfare. Big defensive displays from both teams. 9-6 to Glenwood. Duncan landed a massive drop goal from near the halfway line.

  • Comment 105, posted at 17.11.11 12:27:14 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • @hendrikp (Comment 100) : speaking of 93 babies,being one myself,just realised that am probably the youngest blogger on Sharksworld,wonder who’s the oldest? Can’t believe guys my age are entering pro rugby,feels like yesterday that we were playing barefoot

  • Comment 106, posted at 17.11.11 13:26:29 by Ludz Reply

  • @Ludz (Comment 106) :

    I’m guessing you would be the youngest yes.

    I’m an 87 baby myself.

    Enjoy it while it lasts. Now that you’ve (probably?) finished school, life starts going by very quickly.

    The last 6 years have felt like nothing for me. Feels especially weird when friends I had at school start having kids or getting married, and I’m nowhere near that stage (although the girlfriend probably has other ideas). :mrgreen:

  • Comment 107, posted at 17.11.11 13:51:55 by hendrikp Reply

  • @hendrikp (Comment 107) : yeah,write my last exam next week Wednesday,Geography than that’s it for me and high school. Yeah man,about to go into manhood,it’s a pretty good time in my life and after that it’s varsity.

  • Comment 108, posted at 17.11.11 14:05:28 by Ludz Reply

  • @Ludz (Comment 108) : It’s good to know Geography is still taught :mrgreen:

    Seems like every kid I meet these days only knows where the closest malls are. I do work for a youth group and we organised a general knowledge quiz night a few months ago. In hindsight, that was a terrible idea. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 109, posted at 17.11.11 14:19:17 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
  • @Ludz (Comment 108) :

    Not sure what university is like over there, but I found what I did easy (BA in Political Science & International Relations) over here, as long as you stay on top of it. I’m probably one of the few that never studied, but then I had it easy in that it was mostly essays, research projects and so on…

    Helps me sweet F all now though. No relative job experience & the government just laid off half their policy analysts about a year ago – which is what I wanted to get into 😆

    Good luck for your exam!

  • Comment 110, posted at 17.11.11 14:20:06 by hendrikp Reply

  • @vanmartin (Comment 109) :

    I’m guessing geography would be a chosen subject?

    Would be a bit of a waste of time forcing everbody to do it.

    Reminds me of when I started High School and we had to do things like drama & music. To think my drama teacher actually took that crap seriously. 😆

  • Comment 111, posted at 17.11.11 14:25:15 by hendrikp Reply

  • @hendrikp (Comment 111) : It was mandatory up to and including Standard 7 (Grade 9) while I was at school. I wonder if that’s still the case? Somehow I seriously doubt it.

  • Comment 112, posted at 17.11.11 14:33:50 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
  • @Ludz (Comment 106) : I reckon you’re close, but not quite the youngest….

    you youngsters must stay in line though… we have some 60+ bloggers here who deserve LOTS of respect 🙂

    They’ll kill me if I tell you who they are, though 🙂

  • Comment 113, posted at 17.11.11 15:08:30 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
  • @Slammerboy, Glenwood won that game at Westville. In fact Glenwood have not lost to Westville for 5 years now. This years game they just overpowered Westville. Fred played KZN Schools in standard 9 and was close to SA Schools selection that year. In 2010 he was by far the best flyhlaf in KZN before breaking his leg against College. I think he is still battling to shake that injury off but to be included in the very strong Sharks Under21 squad shows he is well regarded. His future maybe scrumhalf though. Campbell is good but not in the same league yet…

  • Comment 114, posted at 17.11.11 15:59:15 by Grasshopper Reply

  • All the best to the 9 sharks players.

  • Comment 115, posted at 17.11.11 19:54:29 by bergshark Reply

  • @vanmartin (Comment 112) : we have ”kuns&kultuur” it is like drama and music in one that are still mandatory till grade 9

  • Comment 116, posted at 17.11.11 21:57:16 by BR Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
  • @beet (Comment 105) :

    Any good guesses about who will feature in the Baby Boks loose-trio?

    Presuming the tight-five would be: 1 Steven Kitshoff 2 Mark Pretorius 3 Allan Dell 4 Ruan Venter 5 Pieter Steph du Toit.

    And that he’d find a place in the backline for all 5 of: Johan Goosen (presuming he doesn’t make the Springboks), Paul Jordaan, Jan Serfontein, Craig Barry & Tshotsho Mbovane (guessing they’re available then).

    1 Steven Kitshoff
    2 Mark Pretorius
    3 Allan Dell
    4 Ruan Venter
    5 Pieter Steph du Toit
    6 ?
    7 ?
    8 ?
    9 ?
    10 Johan Goosen
    11 Jan Serfontein
    12 Paul Jordaan
    13 ?
    14 Tshotsho Mbovane
    15 Craig Barry

    …maybe :mrgreen:

  • Comment 117, posted at 18.11.11 09:28:42 by hendrikp Reply

  • @hendrikp (Comment 117) : 6. Wiaan Liebenberg 7. Schalk van Heerden/Siseko Jafta 8. not a clue 9. still don’t know 13. Patrick Howard

  • Comment 118, posted at 19.11.11 06:26:53 by Ludz Reply

  • Loose trio is obviously

    6 Majola
    7 Jafta
    8 Alexander

    I don’t see why you guys are struggling with picking this team…

    1 Dell
    2 Marais
    3 van Dyk
    4 Venter
    5 Du Toit
    6 Majola
    7 Jafta
    8 Alexander
    9 Dunno… should be Ungerer
    10 Goosen
    11 Tom
    12 Swanepoel
    13 Jordaan
    14 Serfontein
    15 Dunno – where’s the Lions boy?

  • Comment 119, posted at 19.11.11 09:53:57 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator

Add Comment

You must be logged in to post a comment.