robdylan

Several youngsters included in Sharks training group


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Sharks, Super Rugby on 22 Nov 2011 at 08:16
Tagged with : , , , , , ,

While there are few new faces in the squad that has assembled for pre-season training at Kings Park, a number of stars from the 2011 under 21 campaign have done enough to be in the reckoning for a 2012 Super Rugby squad place.

It needs to be emphasised again that the Sharks do not typically release squad lists, so we’ll get no official confirmation of who is in and who is out. The list below should, however, be a pretty accurate indication of who is likely to form the bulk of the 2012 Super Rugby group.

Under 21 loose forward Tera Mtembu, who represented the Springbok Sevens side earlier in the year, is training with the senior squad now, along with a rather surprising selection in 19-year-old lock forward Pieter-Steph du Toit. Du Toit has enjoyed somewhat of a fairytale season since moving down to Durban from the Boland and after excelling for the under 21 side as an 18-year-old for most of the campaign, was named as the Under 19 Player of the Season in the recent Sharks Academy awards.

Among the backs, Cobus Reinach, Gouws Prinsloo and Sbura Sithole have all been called upon to make the step up, after playing bit parts in this year’s Currie Cup campaign. As mentioned yesterday, there’s also been a somewhat surprising call up for talented young Paul Jordaan, another player who is still 19 and will only be in his second year out of school in 2012.

The Sharks training squad currently looks something like this:

Props: Beast Mtawarira, Dale Chadwick, Jannie du Plessis, Wiehahn Herbst, Julian Redelinghuys. (Eugene van Staden will return in January)
Hookers: Bismarck du Plessis, Craig Burden, Kyle Cooper
Locks: Ross Skeate, Alistair Hargreaves, Anton Bresler, Jandre Marais, Pieter-Steph du Toit
Loose Forwards: Keegan Daniel, Jacques Botes, Willem Alberts, Jean Deysel, Ryan Kankowski, Marcell Coetzee, Tera Mtembu
Scrumhalves: Charl McLeod, Conrad Hoffmann, Cobus Reinach
Flyhalves: Fred Michalak, Pat Lambie, Jacques-Louis Potgieter
Centres: Meyer Bosman, Marius Joubert, Tim Whitehead, Paul Jordaan
Wings: JP Pietersen, Odwa Ndungane, Lwazi Mvovo, Sbura Sithole
Fullbacks: Louis Ludik, Riaan Viljoen, Gouws Prinsloo


129 Comments

  • Unfortunately, they’ll drop out for the season knowing Plumtree.

    Of course, I’d prefer it if we kept Paul Jordaan in the squad proper and let him get some games (alongside Whitehead) and send Joubert to play some club rugby and Bosman to the bench. Gouws Prinsloo to stay in the squad and Ludik to cover wing.

  • Comment 1, posted at 22.11.11 08:20:48 by Butchie34 Reply
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  • @Butchie34 (Comment 1) : revolutionary πŸ™‚

  • Comment 2, posted at 22.11.11 08:25:30 by robdylan Reply
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  • Rob,

    It would seem that Lindeque will be playing Vodacom πŸ™„

  • Comment 3, posted at 22.11.11 08:35:52 by dawj Reply

     
  • @Butchie34 (Comment 1) : Paul Jordaan isn’t quite ready yet for SR imo. He needs a Vodacom cup season and another U21 season behind him and then I think he might be ready. Just my opinion though.

  • Comment 4, posted at 22.11.11 08:38:36 by Ben Reply
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  • Rob don’t you think the Pieter-Steph du Toit inclusion is more to try and keep him in Durban? Make it look as he has a shot at the senior team and that might convince him not to go and look elsewhere.

  • Comment 5, posted at 22.11.11 08:45:19 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 4) : Paul certainly has the talent. He just needs time to develop into an all round player. He needs to work hard on his defence imo. Not sure if I want to see him playing 12 or 13. I’m leaning more towards 13 right now.

  • Comment 6, posted at 22.11.11 08:49:08 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 6) : I certainly don’t want to see him at 10 anymore.

  • Comment 7, posted at 22.11.11 08:50:23 by Ben Reply
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  • Well it’s been a memorable season for Pieter-Steph du Toit who has emerged from anonymity at the start of 2011 to now be a front runner for a starting spot in next year’s JWC.

    He’s a workaholic on the field.

    Of all the talented u19 players plying their trade in South Africa this season, he must rank in the top 5 at the moment.

    I think Sharks fans are going to get very excited about the potential of this prospect over the next few seasons.

    There’s not much risk in suggesting that he’ll become a household name sooner rather than later.

    In my opinion he’s proven to be the best signing the Sharks have made in 2011. He’s from Boland so he’s definitely one signing that the WP scouts will rue for letting get away :mrgreen:

  • Comment 8, posted at 22.11.11 08:53:20 by beet Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 4) : Ja but Ben by the end of March 2012, 6 months wud have elapsed since the end of the junior Currie Cup season. In a junior player’s development, this is like an infinity. Paul made a slow start in Durban but he eventually settled and caught the eye. I wud not be so quick to limit his development to Vodacom Cup rugby. He’s a player that’s going to need constant assessment.

    So I’d say start him in the Vodacom Cup but if he clicks, advance him to SR.

    Agree with you re: his defence and limitations at 10 at the moment.

  • Comment 9, posted at 22.11.11 08:59:10 by beet Reply
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  • Im glad that there are some youngsters in the squad and that the squad isnt huge like some of the other teams. It gives the “new” guys are chance to realistically show their worth against the established players. Yes they are not necessarily going to play but they just might show enough to warrant inclusion should there be an injury or two. And you never know…mayb there will be a suprise or two…

  • Comment 10, posted at 22.11.11 08:59:37 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • Good for Pieter-Steph. Is he better than his teammate Peet Marais. Still a bit young I would think. From the u21 coaches Peet was named best forward in the u21 squad.

  • Comment 11, posted at 22.11.11 09:00:52 by FS Shark Reply

    FS Shark
     
  • @beet (Comment 9) : “So I?d say start him in the Vodacom Cup but if he clicks, advance him to SR.”

    I agree Beet. If he shows he is ready then let him play SR. All I’m basing my opinion on is what I’ve seen of him so far. And from what I’ve seen he isn’t ready. But you are quite right, he could just click during Vodacom Cup.

  • Comment 12, posted at 22.11.11 09:03:26 by Ben Reply
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  • @FS Shark (Comment 11) : I think realistically if push comes to shove, Peet will without doubt get selected to play for the Sharks ahead of PSdT at this stage.

    Our u21 lineouts didn’t always go according to plan this season. 2 games that come to mind are the final and the away regular season game against WP. Do you have an opinion on where the problem lay? From watching on TV, it looked like a breakdown in communication of sorts.

  • Comment 13, posted at 22.11.11 09:06:14 by beet Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 12) : We must also remember that a good junior may look even better in the senior side if he is surrounded by good experienced players. So whilst Jordaan may look decent at u21, he may look even better in the senior side when he is getting better quality ball etc. There is also the chance that the good juniors get exposed at senior level though…but those are risks that need to be taken.

  • Comment 14, posted at 22.11.11 09:08:21 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • I agree Pieter-Steph will definitely make the step up to SR sooner rather than later, we here in Malmesbury would love to see someone from the Swartland(Boland?) make the senior Sharks team!! We had a article about him last week in our local news paper and he says the person who has had the biggest influence on him in the senior team is Bismarck du Plessis!!

  • Comment 15, posted at 22.11.11 09:10:38 by morne1 Reply

    morne1
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 14) : Just remember he then plays AGAINST experienced players. This is SR we are talking about.

  • Comment 16, posted at 22.11.11 09:11:07 by Ben Reply
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  • @morne1 (Comment 15) : Hopefully next year PSdT start catching up to Sadie in terms of popularity in your neck of the woods. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 17, posted at 22.11.11 09:12:20 by beet Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 16) : Yes you do have a point but when do we try him? when he is 25? 27? Its sink or swim in this professional era unfortunately. Lambie,Jantjies,O’Connor, Cooper are guys that swam instead of sinking…will 2012 be the turn of Goosen and Jordaan? Well hopefully.

  • Comment 18, posted at 22.11.11 09:15:44 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 14) : It’s weird that. It sometimes happens. Over the years I’ve seen plenty of guys look better at senior level than when they played u21.

    Recently guys like Renaldo Bothma, CJ Stander in 2010 and even Sbura Sithole were good examples of this.

    I don’t know if it’s the target on their heads or the demotivation of dropping down a level.

  • Comment 19, posted at 22.11.11 09:16:01 by beet Reply
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  • Wel, kom ons stel dit so, Sadie het voorblad gehaal op ons Media 24 sisters koerant wat jou so R4 kos om te koop en Pieter-Steph het `n gratis plaaslike koerant se Sport nuus berig agter gehaal!!m.a.w he is getting there slowly but surely :mrgreen: !!!!

  • Comment 20, posted at 22.11.11 09:20:14 by morne1 Reply

    morne1
     
  • @Ben (Comment 7) : @Ben (Comment 6) : ben as soon as your finished speaking to yourself let us know cause we wanna say something too πŸ˜‰ πŸ˜›

  • Comment 21, posted at 22.11.11 09:20:21 by Franshark Reply
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  • @beet (Comment 19) : I dont think its the target on the heads so much as that in the senior side they are operating within a better structure and alongside quality players. They can then better use their respective skillset and can almost play with more freedom than they would in the juniors. The intensity and concentration of the senior players would also rub off on the youngsters. I can guarantee u that Elton Jantjies wouldnt be the same player if he didnt have Vermaak and Doppies on either side of him during the early part of his senior days.

  • Comment 22, posted at 22.11.11 09:24:11 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • “Down to Durban from Boland”

    To used to down from Freestate? πŸ˜†

  • Comment 23, posted at 22.11.11 09:25:04 by LordHope Reply

     
  • @Franshark (Comment 21) : Its the only decent conversation on here! πŸ˜‰

  • Comment 24, posted at 22.11.11 09:26:19 by Ben Reply
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  • I am disappointed not to see Lindeque in that list.

  • Comment 25, posted at 22.11.11 09:26:21 by lostfish Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 12) : I think it is good to give him exposure to the bigger stage ie practicing with the team, and if his identified as a player of note for the future then give him a chance at vodacom cup level to proof himself and don’t be scared to put him on the bench when needed…

  • Comment 26, posted at 22.11.11 09:26:31 by Franshark Reply
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  • @beet:@robdylan: what’s become of renaldo bothma?is he still at the lions?
    @Ben: also question jordaan’s defence.

  • Comment 27, posted at 22.11.11 09:27:15 by bergshark Reply

    bergshark
     
  • @Ben (Comment 24) : πŸ˜†

  • Comment 28, posted at 22.11.11 09:27:21 by Franshark Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 27) : Bothma damaged his leg at the Leopards near the start of the CC season. Out for the season.

  • Comment 29, posted at 22.11.11 09:34:21 by beet Reply
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  • @SheldonK (Comment 22) : That is true about senior rugby but also remember that junior rugby is slower and the quality of opposition not as good as the seniors.

  • Comment 30, posted at 22.11.11 09:35:25 by beet Reply
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  • @beet: so he is at the leopards now?? Hope the rehab has is going well and to see him play rugby next season

  • Comment 31, posted at 22.11.11 09:37:15 by bergshark Reply

    bergshark
     
  • Impressive. I like that they kept the training group on the smaller side.

    Bulls & Cheetahs are wasting their time a little bit including players who aren’t going to see any game time (and they know that).

  • Comment 32, posted at 22.11.11 09:42:17 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikp
     
  • @morne1 (Comment 20) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 33, posted at 22.11.11 09:42:32 by beet Reply
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  • So what do you guys think about the Mtembu inclusion? I’m very happy with it. He was a stand out loose Forward for the Sharks U21 side imo. But with the loosies we have already he won’t get a look in at SR.

  • Comment 34, posted at 22.11.11 09:46:42 by Ben Reply
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  • Ouch so Piet Lindeque will play vodacom cup rugby.Thank god Meyer had the balls to forcefully make a call about Francois Venter phew.

  • Comment 35, posted at 22.11.11 09:48:12 by Muzi Reply

    Muzi
     
  • First Question.
    How many players are in a S15 squad? Is there a set amount?

    Second question.
    Which of these lighties are going to be seriously considered when it comes to the final squad selection?

    I personally hope Jordaan, Prinsloo, Sithole and Du Toit are kept in the final squad.
    I think Mtembu might battle to stay, purely because the Sharks have great depth and quality in that department. Ditto for Redelinghuis in the front row.

    Otherwise thats not a bad looking training squad with the only obvious weakness at centre and lock.

  • Comment 36, posted at 22.11.11 09:51:01 by John Galt Reply

    John Galt
     
  • @Muzi (Comment 35) : How old is Piet? Will he still play for the U21’s next year?

  • Comment 37, posted at 22.11.11 09:51:17 by Ben Reply
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  • Any news on Braam van Staten and Joel Stransky coming out of retirement? They are the perfect age for the Sharks backline.

  • Comment 38, posted at 22.11.11 09:54:25 by Mutley Reply
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  • Or are they still to young

  • Comment 39, posted at 22.11.11 09:55:18 by Mutley Reply
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  • @beet (Comment 33) : Beet, how highly do you rate Gouws Prinsloo? Do you rate him as high as you rate(d) Johan Roets? :mrgreen: πŸ˜†

  • Comment 40, posted at 22.11.11 09:55:37 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 37) :

    Well he’s probably going to be playing SA U-20 next year.

    So he’s available for the U21’s for 2 more seasons.

  • Comment 41, posted at 22.11.11 09:55:48 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikp
     
  • @beet (Comment 30) : Ya of course it is, but the way guys are being conditioned these days a guy can go straight from school boy rugby straight into the senior side and I doubt their conditioning would be that much different from some of the guys. Being included in the senior squad will show the coach if they are ready for senior action or if they still need to get up to speed. Clearly guys like Williams,Lindeque,Cloete etc are not seem up to speed yet whilst they are assessing Jordaan and Mthembu closer

  • Comment 42, posted at 22.11.11 09:56:25 by SheldonK Reply

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  • @Mutley (Comment 38) : Carlos Spencer..

  • Comment 43, posted at 22.11.11 09:56:42 by Ben Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 41) : No rush then..

  • Comment 44, posted at 22.11.11 09:57:38 by Ben Reply
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  • @Muzi (Comment 35) :

    What you talking about?

    Lindeque, by all accounts, has made little impression at U21 level so far. He’s got another seasons of U21 rugby, but needs to step it up.

    Francois Venter on the other hand was a revelation for the SA U20’s (which he was vice-captain for) and played well for the Bulls.

    Just because they played together for Grey doesn’t make them equally good hey!

  • Comment 45, posted at 22.11.11 09:58:06 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikp
     
  • No Spencer still to young

  • Comment 46, posted at 22.11.11 09:59:26 by Mutley Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 31) :

    he got loaned to the Leoperds for the CC then got injured in like the 2nd game

    Dont thing he will stay on the Lions books . sad about that .

    but we have to many players so yea …

  • Comment 47, posted at 22.11.11 10:01:18 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Ben Piet Lindeque is 20 this year but the way he was playing in 2009 for grey college one would think he was due a place in the super rugby and currie cup squads.

  • Comment 48, posted at 22.11.11 10:01:20 by Muzi Reply

    Muzi
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 45) : Muzi is just being himself.

  • Comment 49, posted at 22.11.11 10:01:34 by Ben Reply
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  • @Muzi (Comment 48) : So you think he should be in the SR squad because of past School Boy Rugby reputation? πŸ™„

  • Comment 50, posted at 22.11.11 10:03:14 by Ben Reply
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  • Mutley bwahahahaha stransky and braam.Boet the bulls have to balance the demographics i heard rumours lawrence sepaka and owen nkumane will boost our front row hehe.

  • Comment 51, posted at 22.11.11 10:03:55 by Muzi Reply

    Muzi
     
  • @SheldonK: see the neck,traps,forearms and thighs on some of those kiwis? Some of our youngsters at the sharks have a few more gym sessions to go before they can match up to that.

  • Comment 52, posted at 22.11.11 10:06:08 by bergshark Reply

    bergshark
     
  • @Ben (Comment 40) : No Johan Roets has been there and done that. Gouws as well as he’s done in u21 still has a long way to go to proving he can match Roets’ ability. Step 1 is to hold down a regular starting spot. Honestly I can’t see Gouws getting there in 2012 but again I say 6 months is a long time. He comes out guns blazing and he might overtake Ludik in the pecking order – under the assumption that Riaan will be the new first choice.

  • Comment 53, posted at 22.11.11 10:08:42 by beet Reply
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  • @Muzi (Comment 51) :

    In the name of Rob… you’ve been warned. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 54, posted at 22.11.11 10:09:08 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikp
     
  • @Ben i just feel the sharks could have given Piet and Heimar a game or two in the currie cup instead of buying the jouberts and bosmans.Sure the sharks coaches know what they have in Piet BUT i have seen the likes of cj stander sithole etc step up in senior rugby with ease Piet is hungry,determined and talented to impress for plum.

  • Comment 55, posted at 22.11.11 10:10:52 by Muzi Reply

    Muzi
     
  • @beet (Comment 53) : What I actually meant to ask was do you rate Gouws to be as good one day as you rated Roets. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 56, posted at 22.11.11 10:14:05 by Ben Reply
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  • @bergshark (Comment 52) : Yeh i agree the NZ boys are looking big, but thats from school boy level up. We are slowing catching up in that we are producing both big and quick boys, not just 1 or the other. I think we were one of the smallest sides at the Junior World Cup this year! The Poms bashed us to pieces!

  • Comment 57, posted at 22.11.11 10:14:07 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @beet: re ludik: plumtree mentioned ludik before the start of sr14 2010 as an option at outside centre.can’t recall him actually trying that the past two seasons though.do you think that could be an option? Ludik is strong on his feet and can tackle.

  • Comment 58, posted at 22.11.11 10:14:32 by bergshark Reply

    bergshark
     
  • Hendrikp i hope Rob does not fire me i enjoy this website.

  • Comment 59, posted at 22.11.11 10:14:43 by Muzi Reply

    Muzi
     
  • @Ben (Comment 34) : I think Teru Mthembu is a much much much better player than the one we’ve seen on the field this year. If you’ve seen him play at school or at u19 or even his handful of performances at u21 last year, I’m sure you’d agree. Last year I really thought he was going to be the star player of Sharks u21 rugby this season.

    He made the SA sevens coz he had pace and was a goalline predator. He didn’t show that quality all CC season long. He’s played a much tigher game tho, so perhaps the coaches have indicated to him that he needs to change his style but for the life of me, that wud not make sense at all.

    In 2011, Marcell has overtaken Teru, Franna has overtaken him. Chris Cloete has been the rage everytime he arrives at a loose scrum, Brynard has been forceful. Mthembu has done a lot of the dirty work but he hasn’t stood out at all.

    I think he’s far better than he delivered this. I’m a fan of Teru. I know he has the making of a great player. Hopefully he comes out in 2012 and players like the old Teru that made fans sit up and take notice.

  • Comment 60, posted at 22.11.11 10:16:24 by beet Reply
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  • @Muzi: maybe they just need a backline coach? 😐

  • Comment 61, posted at 22.11.11 10:18:21 by bergshark Reply

    bergshark
     
  • @Muzi (Comment 55) : There is no rush.

  • Comment 62, posted at 22.11.11 10:18:46 by Ben Reply
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  • Johan Roets he cost the bulls the currie cup when him and du preez stuffed up at loftus when they couldnt catch an up and under.Everytime Roets got the ball he loved kicking up and unders thats why he never got a bok cap hehe.

  • Comment 63, posted at 22.11.11 10:21:04 by Muzi Reply

    Muzi
     
  • @Muzi (Comment 63) : Just a shame Zane Kirchner got Bok caps. What a one dimensional player.

  • Comment 64, posted at 22.11.11 10:23:36 by Ben Reply
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  • @Muzi: matt burke without the goalkicking prowess perhaps?

  • Comment 65, posted at 22.11.11 10:24:21 by bergshark Reply

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  • @Ben Meyer has no choice but to rush venter,small smith,swanepoel and serfontein or else they are going to leave.

  • Comment 66, posted at 22.11.11 10:24:54 by Muzi Reply

    Muzi
     
  • @Muzi (Comment 63) :

    Yep Roets was bloody hopeless.

    About on par with Kirchner actually.

  • Comment 67, posted at 22.11.11 10:25:49 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikp
     
  • @Muzi (Comment 55) : The more I think about it, the more I feel the Sharks are desperately in need of some shake ups in their midfield development and training structures.

    Piet and Heimar have gone from being the best u19 centre combo to struggling to match their opponents week in week out in 2011.

    A big part of the problem is that the backline just doesn’t seem to function well as a team. They have relied on individual brilliance from the likes of Reinach, Jordaan, Prinsloo and on a few occasions Sithole. In the u21 final, part of the reason Beyers looked so good on attack (he was below avg on D) was that the guys around him were working very hard. He got the ball, was able to make good instant decisions and showed good hands and passing. Piet never seems to be given this kind of quality ball to work with, so that he can shine.

    Honestly the u21 centres look like they’ve been left to train on their own most of the time. The cohesion here sucks. The Sharks need to sort this out. They also should be helping the players with their individual skills and decision-making.

    Piet Lindeque – great player out of school but not getting the most out of the Sharks system at the moment. Also he’s playing like a preset programme instead of a free thinker. He needs to be more like Michael vd Spuy who weighs up his options, inprovises all the time and looks to make things happen for guys around him.

  • Comment 68, posted at 22.11.11 10:28:04 by beet Reply
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  • @Muzi (Comment 66) :

    Don’t think maybe Dries Swanepoel was just a part of the package? Sign him and you get Jan Serfontein?

    Only seen bits and pieces of the two, but making them out to be starters for the Bulls in the next few years seems premature.

    Small-Smith & Swanepoel are going to have to do something amazing to force their way in above Sadie & Venter (and Wynand Olivier for the time being).

  • Comment 69, posted at 22.11.11 10:30:40 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikp
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 67) : :mrgreen: When the bulls signed Kirchner he was an attacking full back from the griquas.

    Then they gave him a special edition DVD about classy full backs who have played for the bulls.

    Yes Johan Roets was in that category πŸ˜• poor kirchner had to pick up an extra 10 kilograms,watch Roets do up and unders via dvd then the rest took care of itself. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 70, posted at 22.11.11 10:30:54 by Muzi Reply

    Muzi
     
  • In my mind the only thing that prevented Roets from becoming a Bok was that he wasn’t a goalkicker. The Boks desperately needed a kicker. Percy filled that role.

  • Comment 71, posted at 22.11.11 10:31:16 by beet Reply
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  • @beet (Comment 60) : I’m not the biggest follower of Junior rugby. But in the 5 or so games that I saw Mtembu play for the U21’s this year, he looked pretty good. Didn’t see him at all last year so I don’t have anything to measure him up with. But I’ll take your word for it. :mrgreen:

    Btw Beet, am I the only one who thinks Marcell should be playing at 8? I think it suits him much better than Flank.

  • Comment 72, posted at 22.11.11 10:32:00 by Ben Reply
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  • @beet:agree with you re: my reply to muzi that roets was a matt burke kinda fullback without the gk boot.

  • Comment 73, posted at 22.11.11 10:34:18 by bergshark Reply

    bergshark
     
  • @beet (Comment 71) : In my mind two things prevented him from getting a Bok cap. he couldn’t kick goal and he had a lack of a rugby brain. πŸ˜‰

  • Comment 74, posted at 22.11.11 10:37:16 by Ben Reply
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    Ben
     
  • @Ben: mthembu seems to have some really good skills on attack.

  • Comment 75, posted at 22.11.11 10:37:25 by bergshark Reply

    bergshark
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 69) : As far as i’m concerned Dries was on the verge of joining the sharks because they offered him a bursary via varsity college so he wanted to continue studying.

    He knew he had a bulls under 18 contract but he seriously had second thoughts about joining the bulls he was weighing up his options.

    Serfontein already made up his mind last year his father and brother did say he was going to pretoria.

    The Bulls signed something like 6 grey college pupils that put pressure on dries to join jan. :mrgreen:

    You right about dries and small smith Sadie is amazing he will go back home to the stormers when fouire leaves the guy grew up hating the bulls. πŸ˜€

  • Comment 76, posted at 22.11.11 10:37:27 by Muzi Reply

    Muzi
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 69) : Dries was on every Unions board. Jan Serfontein, no Jan Serfontein, a team that got Dries struck gold.

    He’s strong and has a very good handoff. He’s a natural born leader. He’s employed as a battering ram but he has a passing game. A lot of GCB backs don’t come out of school the best tacklers coz they’ve always got the ball. This season has been different, Dries can tackle.

    The 2 players apparently made a pack to stay together after school and Dries folks are huge Bulls fans, so the Union always had a head start on signing them.

  • Comment 77, posted at 22.11.11 10:37:27 by beet Reply
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    beet
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 73) :

    He was nothing on Matt Burke.

    They played a completely different game.

    Roets positioning was always poor. He was no threat with ball in hand. He had no kicking game to speak of.

    All he did was launch up-and-unders. Matt Burke was reasonably good joining the line. Made good decisions.

    The only fullback you can say is similar to Roets is Kirchner. Both bloody hopeless.

  • Comment 78, posted at 22.11.11 10:38:20 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikp
     
  • @beet (Comment 68) : I was super pissed when the sharks signed lindeque i wanted him and venter to go to PTA together.

    Forget about the william small smith and jordaan combo,add jan and dries.

    The lindeque and venter combo was my favourite combo at school level.

    At the St Jonhs College festival in 2009 Venter and Lindeque alongside Franna were brilliant.

  • Comment 79, posted at 22.11.11 10:41:02 by Muzi Reply

    Muzi
     
  • @beet (Comment 77) :

    True. But again, he’s going to have to perform miracles to knock out Johann Sadie, who I’m afraid is going to make it VERY difficult for Jaque Fourie to keep his place in the Springbok squad.

    We’ve hit a ‘golden patch’ with centres (12 & 13’s) so he’ll have to wait his turn.

    Francois Steyn a sure thing for Springboks at 12, and then Francois Venter seems capable of knocking out Jean de Villiers. Also can’t complain about any of Wynand Olivier, Andries Strauss or Doppies la Grange.

    And at centre we’ve got 4 very good centres. Jaque Fourie, Juan de Jongh, Johann Sadie & Robert Ebersohn.

  • Comment 80, posted at 22.11.11 10:42:56 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikp
     
  • @Muzi (Comment 79) : Well there’s another brilliant player from that team we aren’t talking about much anymore – Franna du Toit.

  • Comment 81, posted at 22.11.11 10:43:08 by beet Reply
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    beet
     
  • @Ben (Comment 72) : Well I think it’s fair to say that the Sharks selectors have seen what you saw in Mthembu hence his call up to be part of the SR squad.

  • Comment 82, posted at 22.11.11 10:46:00 by beet Reply
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    beet
     
  • @beet (Comment 81) : Young Cobus Reinach was in that side they had a deadly full back Riaan Britz every grey college move invloved Piet,Franna,Venter and Britz.

  • Comment 83, posted at 22.11.11 10:46:16 by Muzi Reply

    Muzi
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 80) : You’re going to see what’s happening to WP at the moment at the Bulls in a few years time. They have too much talent for their system to hold onto. They’re going to spend a lot of bucks paying and developing players who will eventually play senior rugby for other SA teams.

  • Comment 84, posted at 22.11.11 10:47:49 by beet Reply
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    beet
     
  • @hendrikp: matt burke kinda fb .. Remember the waratahs and the up and under game. ( Matt burke and the up and under,then chase to regain position? Seemed to me like that was their only option from the back when burke got the ball: run it up,kick high and try regain posiotion.kinda like a bit of league rugby tactics on the last down if I remember correctly).

  • Comment 85, posted at 22.11.11 10:47:53 by bergshark Reply

    bergshark
     
  • @beet (Comment 84) : Thats why the bulls released Moolman,Dippernaar,watermeyer,brummer,boshoff and co.

    Next year the samething thing will happen with Adri Jacobs,mastriet,blommetjies,andile jho. πŸ‘Ώ

  • Comment 86, posted at 22.11.11 10:49:39 by Muzi Reply

    Muzi
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 78) : Haha Kirchner does either one of 2 things when he gets the ball at the back. He kicks an up and under or he runs and when he is about 10m away from the defender he does this silly little step that would only catch out Stefan Terblance, he basically just runs into the defender.

  • Comment 87, posted at 22.11.11 10:51:39 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Ben
     
  • @beet (Comment 82) : And my point, re: Marcell?

  • Comment 88, posted at 22.11.11 10:52:37 by Ben Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Ben
     
  • @Muzi (Comment 86) : Releasing juniors after u21 who aren’t star players is par for the course in SA.

    When you have to part ways with a Sadie or JJ or a Lionel Cronje who are all potential starters at the top level, you either have problems at the Union like the Lions did when they lost guys like Alberts, Habana and Brits or you have surplus that you can’t afford to keep (happy and financially)

  • Comment 89, posted at 22.11.11 10:53:23 by beet Reply
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    beet
     
  • @beet (Comment 84) : Christopher Bosch form and talent has basically put andile jho’s future into question.

    If i was jho i would pack my bags and leave Jan Serfontein will make alot of people nervous.

    Already William Small Smith has dries breathing down his neck.

  • Comment 90, posted at 22.11.11 10:53:47 by Muzi Reply

    Muzi
     
  • @beet (Comment 89) :

    To be fair, Brits went to the Lions in the first place because he wasn’t getting game time with WP!

  • Comment 91, posted at 22.11.11 10:55:44 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikp
     
  • @beet (Comment 89) : You were right abot Lionel Cronje he will start at 15 ahead of visser and kirchner if given a chance to shine and prove himself.

    Derick Hougaard is urgently needed at the bulls fouche’s kicking is not up to scratch yet.

  • Comment 92, posted at 22.11.11 10:56:38 by Muzi Reply

    Muzi
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 91) : That word game time is a nightmare for coaches youngsters these days are stubborn,greedy and ambitious.

    Like i said if the bulls do not give the Grey College VIP centre pairing game time in the senior side then they will leave.

  • Comment 93, posted at 22.11.11 10:58:30 by Muzi Reply

    Muzi
     
  • @Ben (Comment 88) : Not sure. He wasn’t too impressive there in 2010 but was exceptional there in the Vodacom Cup in 2011. I’d like to see more of him in that role before I make up my mind.

    I think MC’s physical challenge now is to not get too much bigger coz this will make him slower. This is the quickest he will be during his career + he’s injury free so far. Same concern I have about Duane Vermeulen at no.8. He can’t afford to get any slower. Duane has managed himself well so far, we just have to see how much the injuries have slowed him down. Marcell is already much bigger than Duane at the same age. Chances are good that MC is going to be a very strong imposing player, he already is. But I feel we need a big strong player who does well in S/Hem conditions not European style play, so it’s vital he keeps his weight to speed ratio in check.

  • Comment 94, posted at 22.11.11 11:03:41 by beet Reply
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    beet
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 91) : Yeah but he was in top form for the Lions. What Union loses guys in their prime or who are about to hit their prime – that’s really my point. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 95, posted at 22.11.11 11:04:54 by beet Reply
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    beet
     
  • @Muzi (Comment 90) : I think Jho might still make the JWC squad.

  • Comment 96, posted at 22.11.11 11:05:38 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beet
     
  • @beet (Comment 94) :

    Best number-8’s are the ones who can run into open space. Who can cover ground in dropping back & linking with backline players etc.

    If you can find someone who can do that, and still has a bit of aggression when he needs to put his head down, you’ve got a number-8 to invest in.

    Duane should be on the blindside.

    I’m a big fan of Kankowski, who wouldn’t be criticized as much if the Sharks had a better ground game. He’s the type of number-8 you can play a balanced attacking game with. Just a shame he’s a bit of a light-weight like Spies as well, but maybe I’m saying that too soon.

    One of the reasons I also think Koster shouldn’t be cast aside so early. If he’d been playing for the Crusaders for example, Koster would be a freak.

    But too often people want number-8’s who ‘play forward’ because of the forward packs not getting the job done, rather then pointing the fingers at the other 7 players.

  • Comment 97, posted at 22.11.11 11:10:21 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikp
     
  • @beet (Comment 94) : 1st time I saw him play was in the Vodacom cup. He was brilliant at 8.

  • Comment 98, posted at 22.11.11 11:10:41 by Ben Reply
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    Ben
     
  • @beet (Comment 95) :

    Schalk never wanted to leave, but at 23, and not getting any game-time with WP, he had no choice.

    The Lions had no chance of retaining him after he made a name for himself. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 99, posted at 22.11.11 11:11:38 by hendrikp Reply

    hendrikp
     
  • @beet: Pokkel just wrote that adi is gone ( read it on jpp fb )..

  • Comment 100, posted at 22.11.11 11:18:08 by bergshark Reply

    bergshark
     
  • Where is Franna, injured?

  • Comment 101, posted at 22.11.11 11:18:37 by Grasshopper Reply

    Grasshopper
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 99) : That’s the point Beet was making. πŸ˜•

  • Comment 102, posted at 22.11.11 11:19:04 by Ben Reply
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    Ben
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 101) : Kleinhans scored a brill individual try in the u21 final that revived the Sharks hopes of a come from behind win. He came on as a reserve. He’s been injured for most of the CC season tho.

  • Comment 103, posted at 22.11.11 11:40:43 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beet
     
  • we’re missing a fetcher in that group of loose forwards. I agree with whoever said that Piet Lindeque should be included. He should at least be given a shot. Surely he can be no worse thank Joubert. I assume Kleinhans and Jan Andre Marais will be in the Vodacom team

  • Comment 104, posted at 22.11.11 11:42:47 by slammerboy Reply
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    slammerboy
     
  • @hendrikp (Comment 99) : I read Burton Francis is training with the Stormers.

  • Comment 105, posted at 22.11.11 11:46:56 by Ben Reply
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    Ben
     
  • Gosh we looking very thin and weak at lock relying on a veteran in Skeate and a bit of s softy in Hargreaves. Let’s hope one of the other 3 can lift their games.

  • Comment 106, posted at 22.11.11 11:52:09 by Grasshopper Reply

    Grasshopper
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 106) : thats what happens when you lose Mostert and Sykes. Will be interesting to see if du Toit, Bressler and Marais can step up

  • Comment 107, posted at 22.11.11 11:56:19 by slammerboy Reply
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    slammerboy
     
  • @slammerboy (Comment 107) : I think when one looks at the squad, apart from centre it’s scrumhalf that should be of most concern if we want to win SR. I don’t recall a team winning SR without a scrummy that stood up and was willing to be counted.

    With the squad we have now, I think our locks can stand up to the challenge of the best teams out there, we’ll attempt to address our issues in midfield starting with Whitehead, maybe Vijoen or JPP, even Jordaan. But at no.9, one of these 3 guys has to not only show consistency, they have to be counted amongst the best 2 or 3 guys in their position in 2012. That is a big ask based on what we’ve seen in 2011.

  • Comment 108, posted at 22.11.11 12:08:43 by beet Reply
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    beet
     
  • Fred Zeilanga at scrumhalf for the future!

  • Comment 109, posted at 22.11.11 12:19:02 by Grasshopper Reply

    Grasshopper
     
  • @beet: re: scrumhalf: guess that’s why kockott tweeted “sooner rather than later”..?

  • Comment 110, posted at 22.11.11 12:38:04 by bergshark Reply

    bergshark
     
  • @beet: I hope you are right re: sharks depth at lock.

  • Comment 111, posted at 22.11.11 12:40:27 by bergshark Reply

    bergshark
     
  • @beet (Comment 108) : In all fairness to the 9s..McCloed had a season full of injury starting with the 2010 end of year tour so was never able to build consistent performances and i think he played injured a few times. When fit and playing consistently like in 2010 we have seen what he is capable of. Hoffman is new to the Sharks and some of his performances have shown that like McCloed if he is fully fit he can really produce the goods. They are both very quick scrumhalves with good passes…now its just up the coaching staff to allow that quick ball to happen.

  • Comment 112, posted at 22.11.11 12:52:20 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • Ungerer? Where is he?

  • Comment 113, posted at 22.11.11 12:59:06 by Grasshopper Reply

    Grasshopper
     
  • @Grasshopper (Comment 113) : Just finished school no chance of him being in the SR squad. He’ll probably be in the Sharks XV Vodacom squad

  • Comment 114, posted at 22.11.11 13:01:22 by slammerboy Reply
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    slammerboy
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 112) : :mrgreen: I like your optimism. I hope that positive energy filters thru to the no.9s. I still think one of them will have to have the season of his life if we want to be crowned champs.

  • Comment 115, posted at 22.11.11 13:12:50 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beet
     
  • @Slammerboy, well maybe but some bloggers were talking about Lambie being captain. We have so few quality backline players left that playing 19 year olds could be our only option. It seems to pay off for the Aussies blooding youngsters early. Gouws and Jordaan should definitely play SR!

  • Comment 116, posted at 22.11.11 13:39:30 by Grasshopper Reply

    Grasshopper
     
  • @beet (Comment 115) : If our winning Super Rugby rested on the 9s then we will win at a canter! There are bigger issues to solve such as the teams defense and ball rention at rucks…solve those issues and we may just be in with a chance, even if Burden played 9!

  • Comment 117, posted at 22.11.11 13:44:12 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK: maybe the sharks were trying to play too much rugby against the lions ( at lions homeground)?maybe we shouldve played the corners,put pressure on them with the chase,ie cut off the option to pass inside for clearance kick( kick into 22) and press kicker into tight spot to kick for touch or run into strong defence if trying to run it back ( oh,yes,I forgot about our defence 😐 )

  • Comment 118, posted at 22.11.11 13:56:53 by bergshark Reply

    bergshark
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 118) : I dont fully agree with you. The kick chase game has never suited the Sharks as our defense in chasing kicks has been rather shite the last few years and we leak a lot of tries from that! The Sharks like the Boks in the quarters had the majoirty of possesion but couldnt convert that into points, mainly due to quite poor ball retention at the rucks. With the players that the Sharks have at their disposal now if they can replicate the 2010 gameplan where they were very effective at the rucks and retained possesion and produced quick ball then they will be very dangerous!

  • Comment 119, posted at 22.11.11 14:05:20 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK: with no fetcher ( I suppose plum was backing on bissie and deysel here) we were always gonna be in trouble if one keeps the earlier round robin game in jhb in mind.they were always gonna be up for it and motivated to the job against the sharks.we shouldve looked to turn them with accurate field kicking,slowed the game down perhaps.but we needed to have a lock that was in the sykes/mostert mould I feel for the final ( hindsight for sure makes it easier to sound smart).
    What will the gameplan be vs lions next season?I suppose one can only say when you have a look at who is available and in form,but still: what game to employ if playing with lotsa possesssion but no fetcher(s) means penalties against you?

  • Comment 120, posted at 22.11.11 14:50:02 by bergshark Reply

    bergshark
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 120) : Im not taking it out on u but i must say i hate it when people say we need a “fetcher” and the loose trio must include a “fetcher”. The whole damn team is responsible for securing the ball at the ruck not just 1 player!! ive never heard anything so crazy in that we say we didnt secure the ball in rucks cos we had no fetcher…what the hell were the 15 guys on the field doing? Drinking water? Sorry for the rant but no “fetching” is a team responsibility not an individual! Im also against kicking away possesion..this is rugby not soccer! The idea is to get the ball, keep it while working your way up the field and scoring tries! Thats how rugby is mean to be played!

  • Comment 121, posted at 22.11.11 15:11:12 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 121) : a fetcher or pilferer will not only secure ball at ruck time but will slow opposition ball down as well. He adds balance to a backrow. We have some great carriers but no one apart from maybe Botes who can compliment them. I agree with you on the basic idea that everyone on the field is responsible but having someone with a more varied skillset can only benefit the team. We are fortunate that Bis does a lot of this work but imagine the prospect of having 2 of these kinds of players on the field at the same time. Maybe we’ll see Chris Cloete make an appearance in SR :mrgreen:

  • Comment 122, posted at 22.11.11 15:23:56 by slammerboy Reply
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    slammerboy
     
  • @SheldonK:the idea sounds right,but you must take into account what you have ,the opponents and how best to win a game of rugby with the players at your disposal (considering that specific game).

  • Comment 123, posted at 22.11.11 15:46:54 by bergshark Reply

    bergshark
     
  • @slammerboy (Comment 122) : Your reasoning behind having a ‘fetcher’ means u agree fully with the way a certain mr lawrence reffed the q/final. U say we have ball carriers but nobody to compliment them-i dont think they need complimenting. If we do have 1 or 2 guys carrying the ball then again what are the other 5 or 6 forwards doing? Nevermind the 7 backline players. Brussouw is deemed to be the saviour of SA because he is a ‘fetcher’! How much fetching did he do when Vickerman cleared his ass out at the ruck! My point is you dont need a ‘fetcher’ if your ruck management is good!

  • Comment 124, posted at 22.11.11 15:49:06 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @bergshark (Comment 123) : Yes i do agree to a degree. But u also cant fully change the way you play based on the opposition. Because then the opposition has won half the battle in getting you to change what u do and thus create some uncertainty as you are not used to doing that. Its much the same as the Bulls of old trying to chage their kicking game to a running game. It didnt quite work and they reverted back to what they did best even against opposition with good forward packs etc.

  • Comment 125, posted at 22.11.11 15:53:03 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • How tall is Peter-Steph?

  • Comment 126, posted at 23.11.11 10:14:37 by mikey Reply

    money
     
  • @mikey (Comment 126) : 1.98m

  • Comment 127, posted at 23.11.11 10:30:40 by beet Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    beet
     
  • @beet: you’ve had a chance to pop down to kp1 and watch the sharks in pre-season training?

  • Comment 128, posted at 23.11.11 11:38:22 by bergshark Reply

    bergshark
     
  • @beet (Comment 127) :thanks. he looked a bit Short when I saw him, but 1.98m is very impressive

  • Comment 129, posted at 23.11.11 21:52:16 by mikey Reply

    money
     

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