Bok team announced

Written by Wesley Weber (wpw)

Posted in :Original Content, Springboks, The Rugby Championship, Wallabies on 5 Sep 2012 at 08:46
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Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer who also goes by ‘The Meyer of Pretoria’ has made some rather strange changes to his side for this Saturday’s crucial test against Australia in Perth.

Duane Vermeulen will make his long awaited Bok debut at number 8 with Willem Alberts moving back to blindside flank. Former WP flanker Francois Louw comes in on the bench in place of Bulls flanker Jacques Potgieter who along with Andries Bekker falls out of the match 22 altogether.

In another move that is sure to be a major talking point among Springbok supporters is the inclusion of Cheetahs flyhalf Johan Goosen who has been selected on the bench. Both Vermeulen and Goosen have recently recovered from long term injuries and according to their franchise coaches, have not had sufficient time on the park to reach match fitness. Another talking point would be that Patrick Lambie will more than likely only be considered at fullback by Heyneke. This is a far cry from the highs of 2010 when the young Sharks flyhalf single handedly won the Currie Cup for his team and announced himself as SA’s form flyhalf.

Another change gives Ruan Pienaar an opportunity to make the no 9 jersey his own as he starts at scrumhalf with Francois Hougaard moving to the wing ahead of Lwazi Mvovo who has been dropped to the bench.

Here is the team:

15-Zane Kirchner, 14-Bryan Habana, 13-Jean de Villiers, 12-Francois Steyn, 11-Francois Hougaard, 10-Morne Steyn, 9-Ruan Pienaar, 8-Duane Vermeulen, 7-Willem Alberts, 6-Marcell Coetzee, 5-Juandre Kruger, 4-Eben Etzebeth, 3-Jannie du Plessis, 2-Adriaan Strauss, 1-Tendai Mtawarira.

Bench: 16-Tiaan Liebenberg, 17-Pat Cilliers, 18-Flip van der Merwe, 19-Francois Louw, 20-Johan Goosen, 21-Patrick Lambie, 22-Lwazi Mvovo.


  • A step in the right decision, Meyer got one thing right, by dropping Blow-wave Potgieter.

  • Comment 1, posted at 05.09.12 08:49:58 by KingRiaan Reply
  • All 3 flyhalves in the 22? I hope that means Morne won’t play the full 80.

  • Comment 2, posted at 05.09.12 08:51:09 by Orelando_G Reply
  • Confirmation that Meyer sees Lambie as a fullback while Plum has suggested he is a flyhalf. Oh dear. Otherwise, I can’t complain. I prefer the back row including reserves, Bekker deserved to get dropped, and Pienaar deserved his starting berth.

  • Comment 3, posted at 05.09.12 08:53:22 by MikeSebMatt Reply
  • @Orelando_G (Comment 2) :

    Lambie isn’t a flyhalf(not according to Heyneke Meyer)

  • Comment 4, posted at 05.09.12 08:54:13 by Pokkel Reply
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  • That is a very slow loose trio and if the game open up, like I expect the Aussies to do, then we’re in for a long night.

    I would have played

    6. Flow
    7. Alberts
    8. Coetzee
    with who’s in Australia at the moment.

  • Comment 5, posted at 05.09.12 08:56:48 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @MikeSebMatt (Comment 3) : @Pokkel (Comment 4) :

    I would love to see Lambie play 10 for the Boks but guys, please remember it was Plumtree who selected him at fullback for the Sharks.

    Surely this plays a role in Heyneke’s thinking?? But then again, Hougaard to wing when he hasn’t played there all season.

    Weird decisions I tell ya! πŸ™„

  • Comment 6, posted at 05.09.12 08:58:02 by wpw Reply
  • Good team from HM and definitely a step in the right direction. I would like to see Flow coming into play.

  • Comment 7, posted at 05.09.12 09:01:21 by Viking Reply
  • so we are hell bent on getting Goosen injured again then …

  • Comment 8, posted at 05.09.12 09:01:44 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Pokkel (Comment 4) : True. It seems like according to Meyer he is a spectator.

    With Frans Steyn in the team also, we now have 4 players in the squad who can play flyhalf. I just hope if Morne misfires he will have the metal to take him off.

  • Comment 9, posted at 05.09.12 09:01:44 by Orelando_G Reply

  • @wpw (Comment 6) :

    I agree Wes and even if Lambie was selected he probably would not be match fit but surely Heyneke could have given him 15 minutes in the first Argie test.

    Plum played Lambie at 10 till he got injured and in that time Freddie played really well and the team was on a roll, so Plum was looking for continuity. In hindsight it probably didn’t do Lambie any favours but it was probably best for the Sharks at that time.

    I’m just pissed that Goosen,who hasn’t played rugby in 4 months, now leapfrogs Lambie.

  • Comment 10, posted at 05.09.12 09:04:10 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @wpw (Comment 6) : I think Lambie started playing 15 for the Sharks because that’s what Meyer wanted. Now he is behind Goosen for the 10 jersey anyway, so we’ll probably never see him at 10 for the sharks again, because he’ll want to do everything he can to get that 15 Jersey.

    I just feel he should stick to his best position, because there’s guys like Willie, Taute and Andries Coetzee coming through that will be better options at 15 (even than Lambie, who is not a 15) and by the time they are all above him in the pecking order for the 15 jersey he would have lost all the confidence, skill and creativeness that he possesses when playing at 10.

    He just has do do his thing at 10 and trust that our national selectors will see that he has something special in this position.

    He is now called a utility back in most articles that his name is mentioned. UTILITY BACK! That’s a young talented rugby player death sentence.

    Just ask Brent Russel, Gaffie du Toit, Ruan Pienaar and Frans Steyn.

    He’ll have to go to Europe, make a name for himself there and hopefully like two of the above mentioned, get a shot in a couple of years.

    And why the HELL is it always Sharks!

  • Comment 11, posted at 05.09.12 09:06:54 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Orelando_G (Comment 9) :

    The only way Morne will be taken off is if he is injured! 😈

  • Comment 12, posted at 05.09.12 09:07:10 by wpw Reply
  • It will be interesting to see how HM will use his bench in this game. Which one of the backs on the bench will not get game time?

  • Comment 13, posted at 05.09.12 09:08:01 by Viking Reply
  • Strange how a poor performance from Bekker results in him being dropped, yet Steyn, who has underperformed of late, still keeps his place.
    Also feel for Hougaard. He has been asked to go against his natural game which means he hasn’t been his best. Think Meyer should shoulder most of the blame for his poor form. Think it is probably a good thing that Lambie hasn’t gotten much game time as the same thing would have probably happened to him.
    @Pokkel (Comment 5) :
    Really like that loose trio. Have always felt that Coetzee would be our best option at the back of the scrum.

  • Comment 14, posted at 05.09.12 09:09:25 by 13 Reply

  • @Orelando_G (Comment 9) : By 4 players that can play 10 you mean – Lambie, Goosen, Steyn and Ruan right?!

  • Comment 15, posted at 05.09.12 09:09:45 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 11) :

    Didn’t Lambie play fullback in 2011?? When Fred was signed as your back up scrummie?? :mrgreen:

    Seriously though, he should have only played 10 for the Sharks since he really stepped up in the 2010 CC final.

  • Comment 16, posted at 05.09.12 09:10:13 by wpw Reply
  • The one big gripe I have with Meyer is that he drops player from his squad before they even had a chance to prove themselves.

    What message does it send out to players when they get selected to the Bok squad and then never get a chance to prove their worth and then get’s dropped?

    Elton Jantjies
    JJ Engelbrecht
    and probably Lambie before he even gets 1 minute of playing time.

    Who else am I missing?

  • Comment 17, posted at 05.09.12 09:10:15 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 11) : The way I see it is that Lambie has to cover the midfield and 15. He is definitely not there for 10.

  • Comment 18, posted at 05.09.12 09:10:15 by Viking Reply
  • @wpw (Comment 12) :

    I know some people who can arrange this

  • Comment 19, posted at 05.09.12 09:11:03 by Zibbie Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 15) : πŸ˜†

  • Comment 20, posted at 05.09.12 09:11:16 by Viking Reply
  • @wpw (Comment 12) : has morne ever been injured in his career, i doubdt it cause he doesn’t take any conctact.

  • Comment 21, posted at 05.09.12 09:12:21 by MJ Reply

  • @Zibbie (Comment 19) : Ruan and Morne are tight. There is no way Ruan is gona throw Morne a hospital pass. Hehehe

  • Comment 22, posted at 05.09.12 09:12:30 by Viking Reply
  • @wpw (Comment 12) : I bet Morne will be subbed for Goosen. Because Goosen can do exactly what Morne can (kick), he just seems to be able to do it even better than Morne ever could.

  • Comment 23, posted at 05.09.12 09:12:48 by Letgo Reply
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  • Not a bad squad but I’m confused by why Lambie and Goosen are both on the bench ❓

    Hougaard should have come in for Habana instead of Mvovo being dropped. Lambie at 10 and Morne dropped and Vermaak on the bench to provide scrummy cover.

  • Comment 24, posted at 05.09.12 09:14:11 by ChrisS Reply
  • Heyneke only used Lambie as a’stop gap’ until Goosen got back from injury.

    Come back home Lambie!

  • Comment 25, posted at 05.09.12 09:14:39 by Pokkel Reply
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  • I still cannot understand what Flip is doing in the squad. It took him a full 8seconds against Argentina to give away a penalty and get a talking to.

  • Comment 26, posted at 05.09.12 09:16:24 by Viking Reply
  • @Letgo (Comment 15) : Nope forgot about Ruan, so 5 flyhalves then (well 4 flyhalves and Morne Steyn). And I seem to remember Jean once having a game at no 10 (although it was terrible).

  • Comment 27, posted at 05.09.12 09:16:42 by Orelando_G Reply

  • @Pokkel (Comment 17) :

    Keegan Daniel πŸ˜•

  • Comment 28, posted at 05.09.12 09:17:02 by wpw Reply
  • For once I thought the Sharks are building up nicely to compete for the S15 title, the game plan seems to be growing and improving a great squad and some real depth. Solid but mobile pack of forwards a very exciting and fast backline and everybody bought in to the game plan and is willing to put their bodies on the line for the cause. But now we went and gave 11 of our players to the national coach! Seems we will have to enter the current Currie Cup squad in for next year’s S15 and build from scratch because I don’t know if we will be able to undone the damage caused by the national setup we might as well sell/release those 11 players now.

  • Comment 29, posted at 05.09.12 09:21:32 by Bakmister Reply

  • @Letgo (Comment 23) :

    Elton can kick as well . yet he never got onto the pitch …

  • Comment 30, posted at 05.09.12 09:23:39 by Zibbie Reply
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  • Not convinced with Hougaard at 11, Meyer should just have left him to play his natural game at 9 – not try and be a FdP clone.

    I reckon Hougaard would do well next to a 10 who actually runs the game.

  • Comment 31, posted at 05.09.12 09:24:36 by Bokhoring Reply
  • Ruan is the best number 9 we have to offer and hogaards had to play a horrible game not his fault feel for the lad!!! Bobo the cloun is the most useless player in the team even at 15 lambie still is a better option!!!! Go get injured zane

  • Comment 32, posted at 05.09.12 09:29:59 by balllllars Reply

  • @wpw (Comment 28) :

    Well Keegan at least got some playing time and Heyneke didn’t rate him. Elton and JJ didn’t play at all.

  • Comment 33, posted at 05.09.12 09:30:49 by Pokkel Reply
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  • Ruan is the best number 9 we have to offer and hogaards had to play a horrible game not his fault feel for the lad!!! Bobo the cloun is the most useless player in the team even at 15 lambie still is a better option!!!! Go get injured zane. Thruth be told lambie is better at 10 we all know that but with seemingly 3 players ahead of him he’s never going to get a chance dar and at 15 he’s not getting a chance so I believe overseas is calling

  • Comment 34, posted at 05.09.12 09:37:16 by balllllars Reply

  • And I don’t see how you could drop 3 players and move another out of position, but Morne is still standing?

    At least all the other players that HM dropped can and has played good rugby before. Morne has always been average with a good kicking boot. Now he’s average with a shaking kicking boot and still he is being backed?

    And Rich’s article about players being backed and whatever else, is losing substance really fast. I get that we should give a coach some time, but he is starting to become really ridiculous!

    Keegan was dropped cold, although he has been part of the team since HM’s first game.

    Duane was injured so HM might have wanted to pick him from the start, but Flouw has always been around, why suddenly is he the answer. And why would HM think a player who just came back from a lengthy injury would do any better than those he had. And why when the loose trio looked good with Keegan and bad with Potgieter (who should never have been there in the first place) does HM not just bring Keegan back, but then bring in players who’s never been there before. If we won’t win this weekend will Luke Watson get another shot and Springbok glory or who else will he think of to replace these guys? It screams – I’m not sure what I’m doing, but I think this will work.

    Hougaard should have been replaced by Ruan after game one. He’s not cutting the mustard as a 9 and I don’t think will ever playing next to a flyhalf unwilling and unable to read the situation.

    Why drop Juandre for Bekker in the first place? Will the same thing happen as soon as other injured players are ready to play, just because they’re not injured any more?

    If you’re not going to use the young and very talented players that you have, why would you bring in a new guy who actually has only done one thing that would have called for his selection – kick a penalty from 60m out and guess-freaken-what, we already have a guy in the team that can do that. So whoop dee doo!

    What else has Goosen really done to deserve a spot in the Springbok team? His team couldn’t even make it to the Currie Cup final and won only 3 of 9 SS games when he was at 10, then went on to win 2 of 7 without him. Okay one player makes not a team, but both Elton Jantjies and Pat Lambie was not only part of teams who won CC with them at 10, but they were integral in those victories.

    Lambie has also excelled as 10 in 2 SS seasons. How has Goosen leapfrogged both these players?

    Because he can kick a ball really far? REALLY???

    I wish all these new selections good luck and hope they can play a good game, but HM looks clueless as a coach.

  • Comment 35, posted at 05.09.12 09:46:03 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 35) : I rather see it has HM learning from his mistakes. Flow’s inclusion comes from a guy that is big and physical whilst still able to poach a ball. I do agree with you on the inclusion of Goosen. It may be a bit premature but we will have to wait and see. HM should laso never have dropped Juandre. He is the future at lock and possible a future captain.

  • Comment 36, posted at 05.09.12 10:06:19 by Viking Reply
  • I wonder about the inclusion of Vermeulen – does Heyneke really rate him or is he setting him up to fail to justify including his believed Spies when he returns? The guy has had 65 minutes of Currie Cup rugby after a long absence – to go from that test rugby …

  • Comment 37, posted at 05.09.12 10:33:16 by Bokhoring Reply
  • @balllllars (Comment 34) : I’m guessing you’re new here? Welcome in that case!

    Quick heads up. Wishing injury upon any player is not encouraged on this site – regardless of how little we like them.

  • Comment 38, posted at 05.09.12 10:33:45 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 35) :

    Let’s not pretend Goosen is only a kicking flyhalf.

    He made things happen in that Cheetahs backline. Led linebreaks for flyhalves in SR while he was playing, and yes, he is a fantastic goalkicker.

  • Comment 39, posted at 05.09.12 10:35:39 by hendrikp Reply

  • @Bokhoring (Comment 37) : Fair point and yet I suspect and unfit Vermeulen may still play a better game than a fit Spies 😈

  • Comment 40, posted at 05.09.12 10:35:44 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 39) :

    I agree he should eventually be in the mix but to include him after a poor 50 minutes of CC rugby after his injury is just insane.

  • Comment 41, posted at 05.09.12 10:37:56 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 39) : He also has a very poor defensive record, but then I guess Morne is not the best tackler either.

    I think either of those flyhalves would need Lambie to be on the field to get all the tackles they miss.

  • Comment 42, posted at 05.09.12 10:39:20 by Orelando_G Reply

  • @hendrikp (Comment 39) : I’m with hendrikp on this one. To me it’s at least it’s a step in a more positive direction if nothing else.

    Question is, if Goosen should make his debut, would he be following strict instuctions on game plan or be asked to play what’s in front of him?

  • Comment 43, posted at 05.09.12 10:39:51 by vanmartin Reply
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  • So stoked for my booi Duane!

  • Comment 44, posted at 05.09.12 10:45:23 by molly Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 44) : Don’t you dare change your avatar to Duane! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 45, posted at 05.09.12 10:50:38 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 45) : as soon as I have a pic of him in green and gold then Pieter SexyBeast Louw’s time is up πŸ™‚

  • Comment 46, posted at 05.09.12 10:56:05 by molly Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 46) : I’m reporting you to the internet police as I’m typing this…

  • Comment 47, posted at 05.09.12 10:57:29 by vanmartin Reply
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  • Personally, I wouldn’t have included Goosen either…

    But I’m not about to complain about his inclusion ahead of players who are less talented.

    The guy is a freak. If he can stay injury-free for a while he’ll become one of the first names we put down on the starting-XV every week.

  • Comment 48, posted at 05.09.12 11:02:41 by hendrikp Reply

  • @molly (Comment 46) : πŸ˜† :mrgreen:

  • Comment 49, posted at 05.09.12 11:09:31 by wpw Reply
  • So Pienaar makes the starting 15 to save MornΓ©’s test career.

    All of a sudden MornΓ© will look his average self again because he has a scrumhalf doing all the thinking and controlling on his behalf. πŸ™„

    Anyway, I don’t think these changes by HM are all that earth shattering. Very conservative indeed. It’s like cutting away all the flesh around the cancer, and hoping the cancer will do less damage.

  • Comment 50, posted at 05.09.12 11:09:41 by FireTheLooser Reply

  • @hendrikp (Comment 48) : Definitely very talented, but very injury prone. I wonder if it would not make sense to retread him as a 15 – a bit away of the heavy traffic

  • Comment 51, posted at 05.09.12 11:12:02 by Bokhoring Reply
  • Whats a bet Goosen will go onto the field but lambie another 80 min of the bench

  • Comment 52, posted at 05.09.12 11:17:19 by Dunx Reply

  • @hendrikp (Comment 48) : You might be on the bandwagon, I like to wait until a player actually does something to give me some assurance that the bandwagon won’t break.

    I do think he is a better option than Morne, but don’t think he is better or we can already say he is better than both Jantjies and Lambie.

    I am also not saying that he is just a kicking flyhalf, but rather that he would not have been selected if he had a 70% kicking average and 40m kicking range. Which means his skills as a Flyhalf alone is not good enough (yet) to be selected for the Springboks.

  • Comment 53, posted at 05.09.12 11:22:04 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Dunx (Comment 52) : +1 that

  • Comment 54, posted at 05.09.12 11:24:16 by Uli Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 51) :

    Been unlucky with injuries… but no reason to move him away from 10. His shoulder injury was just bad luck.

    Huge distance on his kicks, distributes well… very dangerous ball in hand. If he works on his defense, he’d be the complete package (if he doesn’t have a mental breakdown of course πŸ˜† )

  • Comment 55, posted at 05.09.12 11:24:25 by hendrikp Reply

  • Lambie should go overseas he deserves better then how they treating him !!

  • Comment 56, posted at 05.09.12 11:27:14 by balllllars Reply

  • @Letgo (Comment 53) : I agree totaly, Goosen is good, but for me he still has allot to prove, that EJ and PL already has done.

  • Comment 57, posted at 05.09.12 11:27:19 by Uli Reply
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  • Simple fact is pat doesn’t fit. The regime of our coach

  • Comment 58, posted at 05.09.12 11:28:46 by balllllars Reply

  • @hendrikp (Comment 55) : those are good points, and yes he is a little gem. Only time will tell if this is good or bad for him.

  • Comment 59, posted at 05.09.12 11:29:28 by Uli Reply
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  • @balllllars (Comment 58) : pretty much spot on there.

  • Comment 60, posted at 05.09.12 11:30:03 by Uli Reply
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  • @hendrikp (Comment 55) : whatever else he can do, would not even have been on anyone’s radar at this stage had he not been able to kick basically anything at post.

  • Comment 61, posted at 05.09.12 11:35:49 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Uli (Comment 59) : ja, I agree. The coach is taking a chance, but sometimes those pay off, I wasn’t thrilled with Frans Steyn being picked in 06/07 or whenever he had his debut after one CC game (where he outplayed wp in the rain). And I had never heard of Habana when JW threw him a cap. Some coaches have their beliefs in a player and I’ll delay judgement until later.

  • Comment 62, posted at 05.09.12 11:35:55 by molly Reply
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  • @molly (Comment 62) : I like making my judgement right away so that I can say I told you so later on (or be proven wrong…but not too often 😈 ).

    So here’s what I’ll say on Goosen. I don’t think he’ll ever become the super Flyhalf that everyone is making him out to be, but he’ll get more chances, because of his kicking, than any of our other young talented Flyhalfs.

    If you want to say I told you so later on, save that to your hard drives.

  • Comment 63, posted at 05.09.12 11:41:40 by Letgo Reply
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  • @balllllars (Comment 56) : No ways!! He can come back to the Sharks!

    I feel for him and for Peter Grant!! Both were consistently good during the Super Series!

  • Comment 64, posted at 05.09.12 11:49:06 by ChrisS Reply
  • This is where we need a second-tier competition like I called for earlier this year. That way Elton, Pat, JJ and Keegan could get gametime in positions that suit them and, more importantly, consistent gametime!!!

  • Comment 65, posted at 05.09.12 11:51:31 by ChrisS Reply
  • @molly (Comment 62) : yea those are some good points you bring up there πŸ™‚ make me feel a whole lot better now πŸ™‚

  • Comment 66, posted at 05.09.12 11:59:42 by Uli Reply
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  • Man, what a waste of talent. Lambie on the bench again! I feel he will be the next Meyer Bosman. A fly-half being pushed out of position to accompany others. What’s with Morne Steyn? How many matches does he have to fuck up to be dropped? But no, when a non-Bulls player fucks up (i.e. Bekker) he is dropped immediately.

  • Comment 67, posted at 05.09.12 12:09:47 by TRF_Ezequiel Reply

  • @MikeSebMatt (Comment 3) : Well, you have to blame Plumtree for that. He can say what he wants about Lambie being a fly-half. HE is the one who used him out of position the entire season.

  • Comment 68, posted at 05.09.12 12:11:09 by TRF_Ezequiel Reply

  • @Letgo (Comment 63) : He definitely lacks the maturity of a certain wunderkind. His selection to the Springboks will probably go straight to his head, and he’ll crumble under pressure.

    In last year’s CC semi he folded quite early in the game already. At international level, with the amount of pressure the Springboks are already under, I can’t see him standing up against the tide and be the game changer we require.

    The best have failed because they couldn’t handle the pressure, that’s the game breaker. Can he slot that 55m penalty in the 79’th minute when the Springboks are 2 points down? Away from home? At home?

    That being said, I’l take Goosen over MornΓ©. But I’ll take Lambie over Goosen any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

  • Comment 69, posted at 05.09.12 12:16:07 by FireTheLooser Reply

  • I just have to question the 4/3 split on the bench? I mean a 4/3 split for test rugby is strange and especially for Meyer who has olny used 1 backline sub when he has a 5/2 bench! So is this for comestic reasons or is he really going to use all 3 backline subs?? If not then why pick them!

  • Comment 70, posted at 05.09.12 12:22:37 by SheldonK Reply

  • @Letgo (Comment 63) : See, the issue I have with that, is that an opinion like that inevitably leads to people wanting him to fail, which is not really cool, he’s young and has the potential to be a great bok/player and I really don’t think a “I told you so” is worth it. And thanks to peeps with opinions like that, I really really really hope he proves them wrong.

  • Comment 71, posted at 05.09.12 12:30:28 by molly Reply
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  • @TRF_Ezequiel (Comment 67) : Bekker has been poor all season, injury or no, I for one was very happy to see him dropped, he was THAT poor. I get a very big “attitude problem” vibe from him (disclaimer: completely unsubstantiated opinion from me).

  • Comment 72, posted at 05.09.12 12:33:33 by molly Reply
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  • @ChrisS (Comment 65) :

    NZ don’t need a second tier competition to blood their youngsters do they?? πŸ˜•

    I think it’s a no brainer that either Lambie or Goosen should start for the Boks at 10.

    Morne has been poor for quite some time and he is definitely not the answer going forward!

  • Comment 73, posted at 05.09.12 12:34:01 by wpw Reply
  • @SheldonK (Comment 70) :

    When we’ve got the depth, I think a 5-2 split will really count in our favor, whether it be 2 props or 2 loosies.

    In the current squad we really don’t have the depth to pull it off though.

    I wonder how Gurthro Steenkamp is playing, and what his conditioning is like. He’d make a great replacement for Dean Greyling.

    If not 2 props off the bench, then 2 loose-forwards could work.

    Starters for me being: Heinrich Brussow, Schalk Burger & Duane Vermuelen – with Willem Alberts & Marcell Coetzee coming off the bench.

  • Comment 74, posted at 05.09.12 12:34:17 by hendrikp Reply

  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 69) : So you’re not gonna give any credit to Goosen for shining in a team with a pack that pretty much consistently goes backwards, while Lambie manages to shine behind an almost all Springbok pack (actually, they may all be Boks at this point), getting a lekker ride from them for the last coupla years?

    Don’t get me wrong, I dig Lambie, he is the future (whether at FB/FH I don’t know) and I def feel he has a future with HM as coach, but I don’t see why everybody needs to deride what talent and skill Goosen certainly shows. Remind me how Frans handled the 2007 SR final pressure? And he was how old? oh, yes, and we’ve written him off after that, haven’t we?

  • Comment 75, posted at 05.09.12 12:39:00 by molly Reply
    Competition WinnerCompetition Winner Author
  • @molly (Comment 72) :

    Yeah, so was Morne. For 7 months I’ve seen Morne Steyn underperform and still he is the first choice fly-half. That is not normal… He has been missing easy kicks for more than half a year and he adds nothing to our backline. When you play Morne Steyn at fly-half, you might as well just pick 13 forwards in the starting XV.

  • Comment 76, posted at 05.09.12 12:40:44 by TRF_Ezequiel Reply

  • @molly (Comment 75) :

    It’s because Goosen is a threat to Lambie continuing on in the 10 jersey. Simple as that.

    If Goosen were a Shark, there wouldn’t be any issues.

  • Comment 77, posted at 05.09.12 12:41:23 by hendrikp Reply

  • I never understood how a player gets called up for the Bok team right after recovering from injury. I know we’re only in HM’s first year but if this is an omen, Lambie will be the victim of poor management. How can Goosen be the fly-half back-up after only playing a couple of minutes of Currie Cup?

  • Comment 78, posted at 05.09.12 12:54:15 by TRF_Ezequiel Reply

  • @molly (Comment 75) : @hendrikp (Comment 77) : What have Goosen achieved that makes him a better prospect at 10 than Lambie?

    Is it based on fact or the perception that he could become a great FH.

    Is the opinion of Lambie as a FH based on the perception that he could possibly become great at FH, or has to done something to prove his worth at FH? (and FB and inside centre for that matter)

    How many pressure situation have Lambie been in vs. Goosen? How many have been passed by Lambie?

    I think players need to be rewarded for talent and skill they’ve shown, not for perceived talent that could possibly be shown in time to come.

  • Comment 79, posted at 05.09.12 12:57:00 by FireTheLooser Reply

  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 79) :

    Goosen hasn’t been tested under ‘severe’ pressure. But how do you do it unless you give the guy an opportunity? Lambie was given those opportunities in a World Cup year!!

    They all start somewhere. At this stage, Goosen has passed every test. This myth about him folding under pressure in last years CC is just that, a myth. There isn’t much you can do when your team is being dominated, and even then he hardly played as badly as you’re making out.

    If you put aside the desire to see Lambie as the Springbok 10, and just look at what each player can bring to the table, then you might see the reasoning behind it all.

  • Comment 80, posted at 05.09.12 13:05:41 by hendrikp Reply

  • Good people of Sharksworld. This is an absalute must read especially for all the ones criticising Morne and want Lambie to play πŸ˜†


  • Comment 81, posted at 05.09.12 13:07:49 by Viking Reply
  • @hendrikp (Comment 80) : I tend to agree with you. We all want Lambie to get a chance and know that if he gets a good consistent run at 10 he can make it happen. But the flip side of the coin is also true with Goosen. He does also deserve to get a consistent run at 10 to show what he can do. Either way, just give one of the two a decent shot at making the 10 jersey their own and show that they are better the Morne “Up and under” Steyn!

  • Comment 82, posted at 05.09.12 13:10:45 by Viking Reply
  • @TRF_Ezequiel (Comment 78) : As long as we eventually get a new bok 10 i do not really care how many minutes he played CC. I would prefer Lambie to given a chance before him though but the bigger picture to see here is a new 10 for the boks

  • Comment 83, posted at 05.09.12 13:14:12 by Viking Reply
  • @Viking (Comment 82) :

    I agree that Lambie could make a success of it if our game-plan was tweaked…

    But I also understand the worth of having a player on the field that can kick 90% from 55-odd metres.

    And in saying that, if Goosen turns out to be half the player he’s appeared to be so far, we’re not even losing anything on the attacking side of the ball with him there.

    It’d be like Morne Steyn’s boot, combined with an Aaron Cruden type running game.

    Only thing Lambie really has on him is his defense… and experience at this stage.

  • Comment 84, posted at 05.09.12 13:14:29 by hendrikp Reply

  • @wpw (Comment 73) : NZ don’t need any help bringing young talent through but we in SA do. Elton, Eberhson, De Jong, Josh Strauss, Lambie, Burden….just a few names that would go into making an awesome second team.

    1. Dale Chadwick
    2. Craig Burden
    3. Jacobie Adriaanse
    4. Rynhardt Elstadt
    5. Anton Bresler
    6. Heinrich Brussouw
    7. CJ Stander/Josh Strauss/Jean Deysel
    8. Keegan Daniel
    9. Jano Vermaak
    10.Pat Lambie
    11. Gio Aplon
    12. Peter Grant
    13. Juan De Jongh
    14. Willie Le Roux
    15. Jo Pieterson

    16. Deon Fourie
    17. Gurtho Steenkamp
    18. Franco Van De Merwe
    19. CJ Stander/Josh Strauss/Jean Deysel
    20. Sarel Pretorius
    21. Elton Jantjies
    22. Jaco Taute

  • Comment 85, posted at 05.09.12 13:15:06 by ChrisS Reply
  • @hendrikp (Comment 77) : Fair point and unless Meyer has changed his opinion of Lambie as a viable starting Bok flyhalf we should be celebrating the fact that Morne Steyn’s starting position is finally being threatened.

    Edit: Pretty much what Viking posted in comment 82.

  • Comment 86, posted at 05.09.12 13:18:25 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 69) : Thank God I am not the only one to notice this!!!

    The man (Goosen) has talent NO DOUBT…but what has he done to justify his position ahead of Lambie. And as you mentioned I also seem to recall him fading pretty early in a Currie Cup semi last year and a certain Wunderkind shifted to the 10 channel and finished in style…


    Lambie should never have played 15 again after the 2010 Currie Cup. (not that he is bad but ja) – WE HAVE LUDIK FOR SH*T SAKE

    Pienaar was very often the form #9 in the country (when given a run at #9) even with FdP playing at the time….

    Russell was one of the most exciting runners I have ever seen and yet we couldnt accommodate him…

  • Comment 87, posted at 05.09.12 13:20:23 by pienaar111 Reply

  • @ChrisS (Comment 85) :

    Eish. If Chadwick is our 2nd best loosehead πŸ˜₯ I can’t read any further πŸ˜†

    Really think if Jaco Taute somehow manages to land with the Sharks next year, he’ll have a good shot at being Springbok centre.

  • Comment 88, posted at 05.09.12 13:21:25 by hendrikp Reply

  • @Viking (Comment 82) : @hendrikp (Comment 84) : SEcond team competition is needed. I raised the point earlier this year.

    We need to see Lambie, Goosen, Steyn, Jantjies and Grant competing week in and week out in the same team to get a fair assessment. All of them bring different strengths.

  • Comment 89, posted at 05.09.12 13:22:03 by ChrisS Reply
  • @hendrikp (Comment 88) : Loosehead was a problem area for me with Coenie currently injured.

  • Comment 90, posted at 05.09.12 13:22:58 by ChrisS Reply
  • @ChrisS (Comment 90) :

    Stricly local players? Otherwise how about Gurthro Steenkamp or Heinke vd Merwe? Either of those I reckon would even be a great addition to the current Bok team.

    That being said, a few months ago I couldn’t mention Coenie’s name without my head being bitten off. At least we’re making progress πŸ˜†

  • Comment 91, posted at 05.09.12 13:34:17 by hendrikp Reply

  • @hendrikp (Comment 91) : Good point. There are a lot of good overseas players. Wiaan Du Preez is another option.

    Mujati, Mostert, Bakkies and Big Joe are also playing good rugby.Brent Russell is also not past his sell-by date despite being 33.

  • Comment 92, posted at 05.09.12 13:37:15 by ChrisS Reply
  • @hendrikp (Comment 91) : I had Gurthro on the bench

  • Comment 93, posted at 05.09.12 13:38:20 by ChrisS Reply
  • Just take note hyneke will go overseas if he had to jaque fourie kankowski fourie dupreez and (guthro) who’s injured woulkd all be in the team if they were available guthro best loose head in sa better than beast to bad playing overseas!!!! If the boks lose these tWo next games players like morne zaine will be axed eventualy our public outcry will become to loud

  • Comment 94, posted at 05.09.12 13:45:28 by balllllars Reply

  • @balllllars (Comment 94) :

    You’re right, Gurthro is our best loosehead.

    Maybe we’ll see him involved within the next year or so.

  • Comment 95, posted at 05.09.12 13:48:08 by hendrikp Reply

  • @hendrikp (Comment 91) :

    You lose credibility when you mention Heinke vd Merwe. He can scum and………….nothing else. πŸ˜‰

  • Comment 96, posted at 05.09.12 13:49:36 by Pokkel Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Author
  • @ChrisS (Comment 90) :

    Hello?? Steven Kitshoff?? πŸ™„ πŸ˜•

  • Comment 97, posted at 05.09.12 13:51:31 by wpw Reply
  • @Pokkel (Comment 96) : You know Hendik is our resident broken clock Bok barometer. 😯

    Keeps punting players as being the best and future Boks, and when he eventually gets one right he reckons it’s because he has such an eye for talent. πŸ˜†

  • Comment 98, posted at 05.09.12 13:54:18 by FireTheLooser Reply

  • How long until we hear the immortal line “Judge me on the World Cup”?

  • Comment 99, posted at 05.09.12 13:58:15 by Big Fish Reply
    Big Fish
  • @wpw (Comment 97) : Of course, my bad 😳

  • Comment 100, posted at 05.09.12 13:59:40 by ChrisS Reply
  • @wpw (Comment 97) : What do you think of the concept of a Second Team competition to develop talent and of my team?

  • Comment 101, posted at 05.09.12 14:01:48 by ChrisS Reply
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 98) :


    Get over yourself buddy.

  • Comment 102, posted at 05.09.12 14:05:46 by hendrikp Reply

  • What happened to WPW’s comment 97 or are we need not allowed to mention gingers on Sharksworld? :mrgreen:

  • Comment 103, posted at 05.09.12 14:17:47 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
  • @hendrikp (Comment 101) : Ag don’t be so touchy son, it’s mostly tongue in cheek. πŸ˜‰

    The example would be your infatuation with JP Dup who managed to play a decent game for Prooooblems, and some or other player (Sadie or someone) whom you also punted as being the next best thing.

    So as the saying goes, even a broken clock is correct twice a day.

  • Comment 104, posted at 05.09.12 14:19:39 by FireTheLooser Reply

  • @vanmartin (Comment 103) :

    Hey bru, I just noticed the same thing.

    For some reason it was moderated – I restored it now. πŸ˜‰

  • Comment 105, posted at 05.09.12 14:19:50 by wpw Reply
  • @ChrisS (Comment 101) :

    I don’t think it is a bad idea but which teams would they play against??

    As long as it ain’t the likes of Romania, Namibia, et al.

    As for your team, where do I start?? 😈

  • Comment 106, posted at 05.09.12 14:21:17 by wpw Reply
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 104) :

    You forgot to mention the ‘freak’ that is Arno Botha! :mrgreen: πŸ˜†

  • Comment 107, posted at 05.09.12 14:23:11 by wpw Reply
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 104) :

    Sadie, I will admit, I punted for Springbok honors. So did about half the country… Heck, Heyneke Meyer said he should go to the World Cup.

    In JP du Plessis’s case, all I ever said was that as a young player returning to SA, who wasn’t contracted to any union at the time, the Sharks should sign him. At the time the Sharks were having a lot of trouble at the position. The calls being made were for Lindeque % Mjekevu to be given the 13 jersey. I mean COME ON!! Any talk of me saying JP should be a Bok is not near true.

    @wpw (Comment 107) :

    Wait and see :mrgreen:

  • Comment 108, posted at 05.09.12 14:26:18 by hendrikp Reply

  • Something to read and smile:

  • Comment 109, posted at 05.09.12 14:27:00 by Franshark Reply
  • @wpw (Comment 107) : I bet there’s quite a few of these pearlers in our “resident broken clock Bok barometer’s” arsenal which we haven’t even heard of. πŸ˜†

    Our very own Pdivvy :mrgreen:

  • Comment 110, posted at 05.09.12 14:29:05 by FireTheLooser Reply

  • @Franshark (Comment 109) : πŸ˜† :mrgreen: πŸ˜†

  • Comment 111, posted at 05.09.12 14:33:04 by FireTheLooser Reply

  • @molly (Comment 71) : Now see your comment is what I have an issue with, because I have not once said that he will fail. Go back and read anything I have ever said about Goosen. Not even one time did I say he is a bad player. I am saying more is being made of him at this stage than I think he is worth and that I think he will never reach the super status that is expected of him.

    That does not mean he will fail. In fact if he keeps his head together, because of the special ability he has to kick to ball a great distance and accurately so, he will be given more opportunities than players that may (or lets say may not) be more talented than he is and therefore he will be given the best chance to succeed.

    I just hate the fact that even before he has proven anything everyone is signing his praises.

    And I don’t wish for a player to do badly. Damn I even wish Morne Steyn can grow some talent and become a creative Flyhalf, but we all know that won’t happen. So instead I state the facts as I see it. Morne is save and uncreative and Goosen is being made more of because of the one specific thing he can do.

    Tell me you believe HM would have even thought of selecting him had he not been able to kick the way he does or that any of us would have been suggesting him. I really just don’t think so.

  • Comment 112, posted at 05.09.12 14:33:24 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
  • @hendrikp (Comment 108) : Didn’t realise half the country are Streamers supporters πŸ˜†

    Anyway, as I said my comment was mostly tongue in cheek. Your punting of players has however become your legacy here on Sharksworld, you might as well adapt and roll with the punches. πŸ˜‰

  • Comment 113, posted at 05.09.12 14:35:48 by FireTheLooser Reply

  • @vanmartin (Comment 103) : he’s past ginger – my hubby calls him KoperKoos πŸ˜†

  • Comment 114, posted at 05.09.12 14:41:27 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 110) :

    Hey! I happen to like PDivvy! 😈 πŸ™„

  • Comment 115, posted at 05.09.12 14:49:24 by wpw Reply
  • @wpw (Comment 115) : So you don’t like Hendrik? πŸ˜‰

  • Comment 116, posted at 05.09.12 14:53:06 by FireTheLooser Reply

  • @Ice (Comment 114) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 117, posted at 05.09.12 15:00:32 by vanmartin Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
  • @wpw (Comment 106) : I was thinking that all 4 of the Rugby Championship teams have a second team and that the second team travels with and has matches as curtain raisers for the First Teams.

    That way stand-by players are available to the first team in case of injuries and players not selected for the main Bok team still get gametime.

  • Comment 118, posted at 05.09.12 15:15:44 by ChrisS Reply
  • @Ice (Comment 114) : Ouch… 😯

  • Comment 119, posted at 05.09.12 15:17:31 by Viking Reply
  • Bad selection HM -Desperate stuff!

  • Comment 120, posted at 06.09.12 00:26:14 by KILLER SHARK Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter

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