First Division final: Kings vs Pumas

Written by Pierre McLeod (pierre_mackie)

Posted in :EP Kings, Original Content, Reader Submissions on 11 Oct 2012 at 12:57
Tagged with : , , ,

The battle lines have been drawn for this weekend’s top of the table final in the Currie Cup First Division at Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium in Port Elizabeth.

These two teams are so familiar with each other that after two encounters in the group stage of the competition, we still haven’t seen a winner. The first game in Nelspruit ended in a 30-all draw and the second one in PE 26-all.

Suggesting a favourite for this one would be to close to call, but the Pumas could feel they might have the upper hand, or let’s say the ability to dethrone the Kings.

Last time these two sides met in an all-to-play-for pressure match at the Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium back in 2010, they played for promotion/relegation status in the Premier Division of the Currie Cup.

In that game the Pumas thumped the Kings 46-28 in front of a record crowd of 48 000, a record unlikely to be broken.

This time round there’s more pressure on the men from PE, to show the rugby public they’ve outgrown the First Division, to convince the rugby public they deserve a spot in the Premier Division, to convince the rugby public they won’t be a total disgrace in the Super Rugby competition.

But probably the one they will be focused on is to win the final for their captain Luke Watson who was leading from the front the whole season and did extremely well with a team who’s got no big names. Watson broke his foot in last Friday night’s semi final against Leopards, where the Kings were victorious 50-27.

Whichever way it goes, you can be sure it will be a close and exciting game with both teams having everything to play for.


  • Would be interesting if the Puma’s won ….Kings stuck in First Div and playing Super 15… ๐Ÿ˜€

  • Comment 1, posted at 11.10.12 13:28:59 by Caratacus Reply
  • @Caratacus (Comment 1) : no… doesn’t work like that.

    By topping the log, the Kings have already won the right to play promotion-relegation match. The final actually means little

  • Comment 2, posted at 11.10.12 13:39:35 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 2) : So leading the log means they won all the important stuff the 1st div has to play for? Why play knockouts then?

  • Comment 3, posted at 11.10.12 14:19:28 by Die Kriek Reply

  • @Die Kriek (Comment 3) : also wondering that

  • Comment 4, posted at 11.10.12 14:20:03 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 4) : Suddenly I hope the Bulls do beat the Lions, so that a stronger team plays and beats the Kings

  • Comment 5, posted at 11.10.12 14:23:05 by Die Kriek Reply

  • Kings to beat the Pumas and then the Cheetahs will beat the Kings in both promotion/relegation matches

  • Comment 6, posted at 11.10.12 14:40:27 by Mutley Reply
  • @Die Kriek (Comment 5) : why do you hate the Kings so much? Wouldn’t it be awesome if they somehow won promotion against the Bulls?

  • Comment 7, posted at 11.10.12 14:48:57 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Caratacus (Comment 1) : bwahahahahaha shows how much you know! :mrgreen: ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

  • Comment 8, posted at 11.10.12 14:49:03 by Megatron Reply

  • @robdylan (Comment 7) : don’t ask question you don’t allow answers for on this forum ๐Ÿ‘ฟ ๐Ÿ˜†

  • Comment 9, posted at 11.10.12 14:52:49 by Megatron Reply

  • @Megatron (Comment 9) : I kind of realised that after I typed it.

  • Comment 10, posted at 11.10.12 15:02:24 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 2) : that just sux…

    anyways, GO PUMAS!!!!

  • Comment 11, posted at 11.10.12 15:05:31 by Uli Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli Boelie
  • @robdylan (Comment 7) : i’d much rather have my hated Bulls in the CC then my hated Kings…

  • Comment 12, posted at 11.10.12 15:07:45 by Uli Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli Boelie
  • @robdylan (Comment 7) : If such a promotion/relegation match were to be on the cards, I am buying myself a red and black jersey and Kings will be my second team ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • Comment 13, posted at 11.10.12 15:13:28 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

    Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette
  • @Uli (Comment 12) : Why? I still HATE them blue confused with pink lot from Pretoria more than I can find it in me to hate the Kings. This is not their botch up but SARU’s they are the Villains not the Kings. imo that is!

  • Comment 14, posted at 11.10.12 15:19:11 by Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette Reply

    Sharksmad - The Blog's Dudette
  • Give the Kings a spot in the CC, we can afford to have 7 very competitive teams in the CC.

    Kings have the means to keep improving and have been improving over the last few years. Who wouldn’t pay to watch the Kings play? They’ve got marketability which is ultimately what the rugby sponsors are about.

    None of the current CC teams deserve to be relegated, and we’ve already seen what some of the 1st division teams can bring, they all failed at having to punch way above their weight.

    Once Kings are in, start working on building the Pumas to become a true rugby force, they’ve got potential, but they too could do with a Cheeky Watson in their corner.

    This way the CC can be built up to have 8 teams playing, without losing any of the suspense we’ve seen from this year’s CC.

  • Comment 15, posted at 11.10.12 15:23:44 by FireTheLooser Reply

  • @robdylan (Comment 7) : I guess it’s not really fair of me to take that hatred out on a whole team, when it is actually only about one man (I may not say why on Sharksworld) and his cocky son (I am allowed to say he’s cocky?)

  • Comment 16, posted at 11.10.12 15:34:48 by Die Kriek Reply

  • @Sharksmad โ€“ The Blogโ€™s Dudette (Comment 14) :
    Well put.

  • Comment 17, posted at 11.10.12 15:37:54 by Big Fish Reply
    Big Fish
  • @Die Kriek (Comment 16) : yes and while I don’t necessarily share that view, I can at least see some of your reasons for it.

    I don’t really think it’s fair to take out your dislike of that particular family on the entire region, though. Just my view anyway.

  • Comment 18, posted at 11.10.12 15:45:17 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 18) : A fair view, I just find it difficult to separate the two, when the one’s actions improve the standings of the other

  • Comment 19, posted at 11.10.12 15:55:54 by Die Kriek Reply

  • and to think this “franchise” was created in 2005 and legally slated to play in 2006! at the time the said “hated” man was NOWHERE and i repeat NOWHERE near EP Rugby administration, in fact he lived in CAPE TOWN!

    haters are gonna hate man, f.cuk em!

  • Comment 20, posted at 11.10.12 15:56:53 by Megatron Reply

  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 15) : If Mentz is still running the show at the Pumas then they do have their own Cheeky, well only as far as being from a political family goes but also on the opposite spectrum of Cheeky’s.

  • Comment 21, posted at 11.10.12 15:58:45 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the Subtle
  • @Megatron (Comment 20) : Remind me again why this “franchise” has to play Super rugby, I genuinely cant remember and your last answer (when I asked the question) did not help.

  • Comment 22, posted at 11.10.12 16:02:35 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the Subtle
  • @Salmonoid (Comment 21) : plenty of spice in the First Division final, then… ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Comment 23, posted at 11.10.12 16:07:46 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Salmonoid (Comment 22) : what do you mean “has to”, no franchise “has to” play super rugby, they all do at the behest of SARU. ๐Ÿ˜›

  • Comment 24, posted at 11.10.12 16:10:46 by Megatron Reply

  • @Megatron (Comment 20) : Call it what you will, in 2005 I didn’t give a damn about the Spears. I actually preferred their inclusion ahead of splitting the Cats. Made more sense back then, instead they went ahead and split the Cats, built up two separate franchises. Enter said antagonist/protagonist and the illogical ‘fit 6 into 5’ crap begins

  • Comment 25, posted at 11.10.12 16:12:52 by Die Kriek Reply

  • @Megatron (Comment 24) : No, old style politics, Mentz’s father was an MP from Ermelo for the old Conservative Party.

    @robdylan (Comment 23) : True, never thought of it that way before but the niggle must have been there before (even if no one will admit to it or most of the players arent aware of it)

  • Comment 26, posted at 11.10.12 16:19:03 by Salmonoid Reply
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  • @Megatron (Comment 24) : Lawyer.

    Now where is the “banging my head on the desk” emoticon.

  • Comment 27, posted at 11.10.12 16:20:14 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    Salmonoid the Subtle
  • ok…. lots of liberties being taken now.

    No further political discussion, thanks.

  • Comment 28, posted at 11.10.12 16:22:09 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 28) : Appologies

  • Comment 29, posted at 11.10.12 16:25:04 by Die Kriek Reply

  • @Die Kriek (Comment 26) : yes and the Spears accepted the independent auditor’s result that the twofranchises with the best proposals are 1. Cheetahs/Griquas 2. Lions/Leopards/Pumas 3.Border/EP/SWD.

    then SARU’s general council mapped a way forward at a meeting held on 8 June 2005 at the Intercontinental Sandton Sun

    – The South African team finishing at the bottom of the log in 2006, will automatically be replaced by the SE Cape for the 2007 season.

    – At the end of the 2007 Super 14 season, the South African franchise team, which is last on the Super 14 log, excluding the SE Cape, shall play in a promotion relegation match against the franchise team who did not play in the 2007 Super 14 competition.

    – That the Falcons Rugby Union will form part of the Blue Bulls franchise.

    – That the decisions which were taken at the meeting on 15 April 2005 in respect of the South African franchise system, are hereby amended in order to reflect the above agreement.

    out of all that was agreed upon that day, the Falcons being part of the Bulls franchise is the only decision SARU has implemented in the last SEVEN years!

    now how all of this can be attributed to cheeky watson baffles me! ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

  • Comment 30, posted at 11.10.12 16:28:31 by Megatron Reply

  • @Megatron (Comment 30) : Tony… is that you?

  • Comment 31, posted at 11.10.12 16:35:45 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 32) : you know i’m not tony! ๐Ÿ˜†

  • Comment 32, posted at 11.10.12 16:38:25 by Megatron Reply

  • I heard Tony is somehow connected to the Lions these days. Dont know how true that one is.

  • Comment 33, posted at 11.10.12 16:42:17 by Salmonoid Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
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  • @Megatron (Comment 30) : Why didn’t it happen? Why did they not come in in 2007?

    From Wikipedia “The Spears were told that they would not be included in the 2007 Super 14 over issues of competitiveness”

    5 years on, a new franchise has been formed on the bones of the Spears, but are yet to prove the issue mentioned has been resolved, but someone has shoved them back onto the stage.

    And now, as per Rob’s request, I will withdraw form this argument

  • Comment 34, posted at 11.10.12 16:45:03 by Die Kriek Reply

  • @Die Kriek (Comment 35) : really Wikipedia? ๐Ÿ˜†

    before you run away, please define what you understand about “over issues of competitivenessโ€

    Rob said “no more politics”, now come on, you hate the Kings, step up!

  • Comment 35, posted at 11.10.12 17:05:25 by Megatron Reply

  • @Megatron (Comment 32) : ja, but Tony used to love quoting those resolutions, chapter on verse, on every blog he could find. Just had some major deja vu.

  • Comment 36, posted at 11.10.12 17:29:39 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 37) : ๐Ÿ˜€

  • Comment 37, posted at 11.10.12 17:32:31 by Megatron Reply

  • @Megatron (Comment 37) : I see a throwaway line at the bottom of a SuperSport article stating the Bulls are likely to lose Andile Jho. Is he coming back to you guys?

  • Comment 38, posted at 11.10.12 18:05:26 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Sharksmad โ€“ The Blogโ€™s Dudette (Comment 14) : Yeah if I really have to choose between them I say Bring On Barry Pinnock, Frans Erasmus, Riaan Potgieter and Chad Alcock!! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 39, posted at 11.10.12 19:11:43 by Original Pierre Reply
    Original Pierre
  • @Original Pierre (Comment 39) : wow, that’s going back. Riaan Potgieter? Jeez…

  • Comment 40, posted at 11.10.12 19:50:38 by robdylan Reply
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  • The Kings will become one of the strong unions within the next few years!! Just look at their new academy under Robbie Kempston and they have already signed some of this years top Craven Week players. Eventhough the Bulls, Sharks and WP were shopping hard in the EP area.

    To all the Kings haters from the Bulls, Sharks, Lions, WP, Cheetahs and even the Pumas that the Kings is playing tomorrow!! Remember there is pure Eastern Province Blood playing in all those teams!!?????????
    The days of EP sponsoring players for these unions are getting shorter?? So good luck for the future!!
    EP Kings on the Rise

  • Comment 41, posted at 12.10.12 13:53:29 by Maanz Reply

  • @Maanz (Comment 41) : no hating from my side, bro. I can definitely see the benefits of a strong franchise in the Eastern Cape. All the best to the Kings I say.

  • Comment 42, posted at 12.10.12 14:00:41 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Maanz (Comment 41) : I have nothing against an EP team nor the players – I just dont like your boss and how he goes about doing things…

  • Comment 43, posted at 12.10.12 14:10:30 by Ice Reply
    Competition Winner Ice
  • @robdylan – Cool man! We just exited down here to build something up again. We were not that shit in Rugby in the old days you know.

    @Ice – thats fair comment and sure I am not a big fan as well. But he has done some really good work so far for Kings Rugby. Also a lot of things that SARU did wrong is being blamed on Cheeky and a lot of that he did not even have anything to do with??? So?? We will see what happens.

  • Comment 44, posted at 12.10.12 14:23:09 by Maanz Reply

  • @Maanz (Comment 44) :Mate for the long run I hope the kings make something good of it, I am just disappointed in the manner in which they wanted to be included into super rugby, instead of proving them selves 1st, by that getting respected from a rugby community point of view. I think thatโ€™s the biggest problem most people have with this whole situation, be it SARFU’s mistake yes , but also the kings who pushed so hard and wanted to be included instead of playing their way to rights to be included.
    Therefore, I hope I am wrong for the kings sake, I donโ€™t see them doing much at all in next yearโ€™s super 15, its a pity and a right down waste of a team on the end of the day.
    Do I miss EP rugby , yes I think everyone does, but donโ€™t blame it on other unions โ€œsteelingโ€ your players. There was some terrible miss management in EP and tats why EP ended where they are today.
    Lets hope for rugby sake, EP comes back stronger, and that SArugby benefits form it in a larger scale than what we all thought we would ๐Ÿ˜‰

  • Comment 45, posted at 12.10.12 15:27:02 by Uli Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli Boelie
  • @Uli (Comment 46) : bra, the “earn the right to play” argument is BULLSHIT, how are we to ever earn the right to play when our players are getting poached every season?

    everyone feels sorry for the Lions because they might sit out one season and woe betide them it will ruin their union, TRY sitting out SEVEN years and tell me Jantjies, Taute, Mapoe, Visagie, Strauss etc would stay at the GLRU out of LOYALTY!!!

    SARU messed this thing up because Hoskins was corrupt enough to allow the Lions to stay in Super Rugby in 2006 instead of being relegated! Did he think the people in the Eastern Cape were going to SHUT UP forever?

    Uli, tell me why did the Lions & Cheetahs break away from a franchise (Cats) they had and want to go it alone and why did SARU allow them?

  • Comment 46, posted at 12.10.12 16:29:23 by Megatron Reply

  • @Maanz (Comment 42) : Yeah Maanz, we’re on the RISE mate. our U19 is playing in the B-division final, so is our U21 – after we demolished Griquas 67 – 15 in the semi!

  • Comment 47, posted at 12.10.12 16:32:14 by Megatron Reply

  • @Megatron (Comment 47) : ja, I think we sent you okes a lot of players… ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Comment 48, posted at 12.10.12 16:34:46 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 49) : keep dreaming ๐Ÿ˜€

  • Comment 49, posted at 12.10.12 16:42:01 by Megatron Reply

  • @robdylan (Comment 49) : we got our own kids, thank you! ๐Ÿ˜† ๐Ÿ˜›

  • Comment 50, posted at 12.10.12 16:43:48 by Megatron Reply

  • @Megatron (Comment 50) : really?

    Go check your u21 squad and see how many of them spent at least a year down our way… you might be surprised.

  • Comment 51, posted at 12.10.12 16:54:49 by robdylan Reply
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  • You know, we can say what we want about Cheeky, but he’d sure as heck have done a better job with Springbok rugby than this current spineless administration.

    It’s not about being liked, it’s about getting results – and sadly our current administration have achieved NOTHING with the TONS of talent at their disposal.

    Look at O’Neil, really not someone who’s earned the Favourite Rugby Administrator of the Year award, but how he manages to keep Ozzie rugby alive, and what they’re gonna do now that he’s gone is anyone’s guess.

  • Comment 52, posted at 12.10.12 17:08:01 by FireTheLooser Reply

  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 53) : finally, someone who GETS it…cheeky has done SO much for our union hand in hand with anele pamba than ANY of the previous administrators of colour – sorry rob – who one would’ve thought CARED about grassroots rugby in the EC, instead they just lined their pockets & became SARU puppets!

    people can hold on to their prejudices all they like bur as a rugby man, cheeky has excelled KLAAR!

  • Comment 53, posted at 12.10.12 17:29:08 by Megatron Reply

  • @Megatron (Comment 46) : Firstly I am not you BRA, Secondly I don’t feed trolls.

  • Comment 54, posted at 14.10.12 09:48:32 by Uli Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli Boelie
  • @Megatron (Comment 53) : I’ll let it pass because I agree with you

  • Comment 55, posted at 14.10.12 09:59:41 by robdylan Reply
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  • Transie has a point.

    They shouldn’t be required to ‘prove themselves’ because the team will represent Port Elizabeth/Eastern Province, not the current batch of players.

    You can’t ask them to compete against the best in SA, while withholding what they need to make it an even contest.

    I’m no fan of Cheeky and and Luke because they just invite controversy, and involving Cheeky in SARU would’ve just meant handing a HUGE amount of power over to the Watsons.

    But promoting the Kings to Super Rugby is the right decision. Doesn’t have to mean that relegating the Lions was the right one.

    Now we need SARU to put their foot down for 2016 (I think?) and make sure we get all 6 teams in there, and preferably a shorter season.

    Also replace the Griquas with the Kings and scrap promotion-relegation.

    Ideally the First Division would become strictly amateur, and they could redirect funds towards the bigger unions.

  • Comment 56, posted at 14.10.12 11:12:19 by hendrikp Reply

  • @hendrikp
    Why should Griquas be replaced by the Kings with no promotion/relegation match. Griquas didn’t end on the bottom of the log and even if they did Griquas would still beat the Kings. Let’s face it, the only way the Kings will play premier division next year is if SARU increases the number of teams to 7, because the won’t beat the Cheetahs

  • Comment 57, posted at 14.10.12 11:40:00 by Mutley Reply
  • @Megatron (Comment 53) : Eish, Meggymoo. You have your rose-coloured specs on again, dearest. I’ll warrant that Cheeky Watson has lined all the pockets he possesses very nicely with his liaisons dangereux with the ANC hierarchy and his cronies in the ministry. Make no bones about it, he’s not in business to promote rugby in the EC, but to make money from doing so. That’s why he gets paid, rather than offering his services on a voluntary basis. Darth Cheeky is the embodiment of the dark side of professional rugby… And there I was thinking you were a Jedi, not a secret Sith! ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

  • Comment 58, posted at 14.10.12 11:43:36 by Shaz Reply
  • @Shaz (Comment 58) : For the record, my feeling is that if the Force can play Super Rugby then so can the Kings. The only difference is that the Force were accommodated without Australia having to lose another team. The whole system is cock-eyed and out of kilter. I have no love for the Lions but we are the only country in the Sanzar alliance sitting with this problem, which is patently unfair when you consider that Australia has three totally mediocre teams in the competition.

  • Comment 59, posted at 14.10.12 11:51:04 by Shaz Reply
  • @Megatron (Comment 53) : spot on, I still wonder what people hate about Cheeky, emlighten me please people

  • Comment 60, posted at 14.10.12 12:20:34 by Ludz Reply

  • @Shaz (Comment 59) : no politics here shaz. Please refrain from that sort of statement

  • Comment 61, posted at 14.10.12 13:23:51 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Shaz: bring facts my dear & not foolish & subjective conjencture!

    just ONE shred of evidence that Cheeky is lining his & his cronies pockets with EP rugby money.

  • Comment 62, posted at 14.10.12 15:25:43 by Megatron Reply

  • @Shaz (Comment 59) : it’s actually crazy to think that rugby people like de wet barry, robbie kempson, alan solomons are supposedly BLIND to cheeky’s alleged scheming that they would associate themselves with the Kings and risk tarnishing their reputations…

  • Comment 63, posted at 14.10.12 15:34:07 by Megatron Reply

  • @Megatron (Comment 63) : I would love it if they gave the u21 side a watch, that team is EC rugby at it’s best, okay maybe a few went to the big unions and fell short and came back home, but dear old Uncle Robbie has moulded them into a force to be reckoned with, they’ll play in A division next year and they won’t be 5 pointers for their opposition, you should see how well coached these lads are.

    They are EC boys through and through, centres are usually Shane Gates (no.12 from Muir College in Uitenhage) and Lonwabo Ntleki (no.13 KES lad who was at Dale until grade 9 and was recruited). The back 3 of Siviwe Soyiswaphi (no.15 from Dale) Ofentse Boloko (Selborne) on 1 wing and Brian Skosana (St Andrew’s) on the other. This what we trying to build here

  • Comment 64, posted at 14.10.12 16:36:22 by Ludz Reply

  • @Uli (Comment 54) :
    Constructive comment there. ๐Ÿ™„

  • Comment 65, posted at 14.10.12 23:07:31 by Big Fish Reply
    Big Fish

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