Richard Ferguson

Boks vs Scots – Player Ratings


Written by Richard Ferguson (Richard Ferguson)

Posted in :Original Content, Springboks on 19 Nov 2012 at 10:06
Tagged with : , , , , , , , , ,

The Springboks beat a decent Scotland outfit on Saturday to remain unbeaten in this three match end of year tour, even though they managed the win by playing one half of decent rugby, and was lucky that Scotland made poor decisions when it counted most.

Here are my ratings of the team, taking into consideration that they won a test against the ninth ranked team in the world, who got a hiding from the All Blacks last week:

1.Gurthrö Steenkamp – Came into the team for CJ van der Linde and neither have impressed on tour so far. With the Beast off his form the Boks are battling to find a good loosehead – 6/10
2.Adriaan Strauss – Had his best game of the year in a Bok jersey, scoring two tries, one of which was a rather lucky intercept. His lineout throwing was impeccable though, and with the Boks once again being able to bank on this set piece, you have to give him credit – 8/10
3.Jannie du Plessis – Is it only me, or does it seem that Jannie is the only prop in South Africa that is playing good rugby at the moment? Another strong performance from the doc, even though the scrum was penalised multiple times for early engagement on the new scrum call, it was the loosehead that took the brunt – 7/10
4.Eben Etzebeth – He seems to get better as he goes, the go to man at the front of the lineout and making life difficult for the opposing jumpers. Good work young man! – 8/10
5.Juandré Kruger – Took a few lineouts himself, but doesn’t seem to be as safe as his lock partner. His time to prove he is better than Andries Bekker is slowly running out – 7/10
6.Francois Louw – In the absence of Bismarck du Plessis we have been calling for a breakdown expert, and we have found him! Louw was fantastic for the second game of this tour, and is cementing his place in this team. – 9/10
7.Willem Alberts – Alberts seemed to learn from his previous match and took the ball into some space instead of into the opposition, and he looked a lot better than we have seen him during this year. He can still improve though – 7/10
8.Duane Vermeulen – I am a huge Vermeulen fan, but he has done very little so far this tour to show that he is better than Ryan Kankowski (or even Pierre Spies for that matter). We are yet to see those billowing runs from the man – 6/10

9.Ruan Pienaar – A solid game from the Ulster man, whose instructions are clear in the way he plays. If only he can stop swinging his arms about and get the ball out a bit faster. His kicking from the base was good though, in taking pressure off Lambie – 7/10
10.Pat Lambie – Second start on tour and still nothing from the player who the fans begged to get game time. One can now understand why Morné Steyn was playing the way he was, as the instructions are quite clear – get ball and kick. There was not a single bit of attacking play from the Sharks flyhalf, and if those instructions start sticking, I would rather have Steyn playing and taking the fall. – 6/10
11.Francois Hougaard – Being selected out of position and against his will, the winger kept looking for work and was always chasing the high ball with all of his speed. Defensively, a very strong showing from him though – 6/10
12.Jean de Villiers – As a captain, Jean performed well, making the right calls at the right time in terms of attacking and taking the points. As a player though, he killed any ball that he got (straight from the scrumhalf and not from Lambie passing) not allowing Juan de Jongh any ball, which, as a distributing centre, is kind of going against what is meant to happen. Defensively though, strong as always – 7/10
13.Juan de Jongh – Could just as well have been on the bench, as he got no ball at all and was asked to stand in the lineout and tackle all day, which he did with vigour – 6/10
14.JP Pietersen – Once got the ball, from a Lambie cross kick, and didn’t have any other ball to make magic with. A shame, as JP is in the form of his life and could have run riot – 6/10
15. Zane Kirchner – Zane did what Zane does, kicks ball high and chases. Solid at the back defensively, but nothing offered on attack – 6/10

16.Schalk Brits – Used for 4 minutes – no effect as we didn’t have the ball at the end of the match.
17.Heinke van der Merwe – Got penalised deep in his own 22m for a silly move on the opposition scrumhalf, and didn’t have the same effect on the scrum as in the Irish match – 6/10
18.CJ van der Linde – Came on as a tighthead, being selected ahead of a natural tighthead in Pat Cilliers, and was coached. A shame, as another Heyneke Meyer selection goes pear shaped – 5/10
19.Flip van der Merwe – Not a lot of time on the park, and did very little.
20.Marcell Coetzee – Intense work ethic from the Sharks flanker, pushing for a starting role ahead of a tired looking Alberts – 7/10
21.Morné Steyn – Came on at the death, and had very little to do.
22.Jaco Taute – Unused
23.Lwazi Mvovo – Unused


75 Comments

  • Fair ratings Rich.

    I thought Hougaard was particularly poor but then again with the current game plan our wingers won’t get much ball will they??

    At one stage I wondered why I even bothered watching the game at all. 🙄

  • Comment 1, posted at 19.11.12 10:23:30 by wpw Reply
    Author
    wpw
     
  • What a poor game this was 😐 😕

    The only players worth a mention were Flouw and Struass. Andries Bekker was called out by Mallet for his gutless defense ,is Juandre Kruger any better? the guy adds nothing and is probably only there because Vic Matfield had a chat with Meyer, cronyism big time.

    @wpw (Comment 1) : Couldnt agree more

  • Comment 2, posted at 19.11.12 10:28:16 by Talent Reply
    Author
    Talent
     
  • @wpw (Comment 1) :

    Look, it’s tricky rating the players, for a number of reasons.

    Firstly, do you rate them on how you think they should be playing, or on how HM told them to play.

    Secondly, can you fault a player for trying to break the mould of how he is coached, but then getting it wrong?

    In the case of Hougaard, who has openly said he would rather bench than start on the wing – he still tried to get involved instead of feeling sorry for himself on the wing and not doing anything. He still didn’t have the best game, but for tha I blame Meyer and not the player.

  • Comment 3, posted at 19.11.12 10:29:37 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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    Richard Ferguson
     
  • Man for Man the scores seem fair… but then why was the collective effort so shockingly poor?

    Are we saying we have the right players, putting in the right effort… but in the wrong game plan?

  • Comment 4, posted at 19.11.12 10:31:07 by CS Reply

    CS
     
  • I’m baffled by Meyers selections ,especially Brits. He is bought into the side because of his impact off the bench ,yet Meyer keeps Morne Steyn on the bench?? Furthermore he drops a guy like Keegan Daniel , because he isn’t big enough?But Brits is…

  • Comment 5, posted at 19.11.12 10:31:42 by Talent Reply
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    Talent
     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 3) : Yikes, has Hougaard actually said that?

  • Comment 6, posted at 19.11.12 10:35:25 by CS Reply

    CS
     
  • Wow how did cj get 5?! He did nothing but in open play and got penalised at almost ever scrum. By the way like Pat and Jannie, cj is also a tighthead that can scrum on loosehead side, only thing is he’s just very bad on both sides.

  • Comment 7, posted at 19.11.12 10:36:51 by JD Reply
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    JD
     
  • @Talent (Comment 5) :

    Baffling is a good way to describe it..

    He wanted to use Brits as an impact player, yet failed to use him in the first test on tour? He knew it was going to be a tough, close match, why not include Chiliboy, who knows the setup and is a better hooker overall.

    As for impact offered off the bench, Hougaard would be ideal, yet he starts him ahead of the explosive Mvovo?! Mvovo hasn’t taken the field in either test, so what impact does he have off the bench?

    As for Marcell Coetzee and Willem Alberts, surely if he wanted impact for the game, he would let Marcell loose for 60 minutes of insane workrate and then let Alberts run at them for 20 odd minutes.

  • Comment 8, posted at 19.11.12 10:39:01 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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    Richard Ferguson
     
  • I wonder what has happened to Meyer? 5 years ago we were all pissed off when Divvy got the job ahead of him… but now that he’s had a season in the coaching role I’m wondering what all the fuss was about?

    Is it that 5 years on, his gameplan is outdated and no longer relevent… or has he lost something that made him a good coach 5 years ago?

  • Comment 9, posted at 19.11.12 10:39:06 by CS Reply

    CS
     
  • @JD (Comment 7) :

    CJ got a 5 because, even though he got penalised at every scrum he took part in, he was selected in that position by Meyer, who should have known that he is a better loosehead, when Pat Cilliers would have done a much better job.

    Yes, the player performed poorly, but the blame should go to the coach at the end of the day.. The player doesn’t select himself..

  • Comment 10, posted at 19.11.12 10:40:53 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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    Richard Ferguson
     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 8) : I liked Nick Mallet’s comment on Saturday when everyone was raving about Jean’s crash ball tactics… “If we wanted a centre to play like that we might as well play Willem Alberts at Centre” – not a bad comment!!

  • Comment 11, posted at 19.11.12 10:41:34 by CS Reply

    CS
     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 8) : I agree with everything you’ve mentioned.

    I get the feeling that Meyer selects fan favorites to appease some. I also feel as if some of his selections are naive and based on hearsay.

  • Comment 12, posted at 19.11.12 10:43:56 by Talent Reply
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    Talent
     
  • @CS (Comment 9) : Maybe he rode the success of possibly the greatest crop of players of our generation…

  • Comment 13, posted at 19.11.12 10:46:33 by Talent Reply
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    Talent
     
  • @CS (Comment 11) :

    It’s true – he killed the ball everytime he got it, just like our loosies did when taking contact.

    Jean is pretty much just the captain in the side, as his play currently does not justify his selection..

    One has to wonder if Adriaan Strauss would be a better captain eith a decent 12 in the backline..

  • Comment 14, posted at 19.11.12 10:47:28 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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    Richard Ferguson
     
  • One of Jake Whites biggest successes were the players he resurrected from test match obscurity.

    Meyer needs to get Bakkies ,Smith and maybe even Dannie Rossouw back.

    1.Beast
    2.Bismarck
    3.Jannie
    4.Bakkies
    5.Etzebeth
    6.Burger/Coetzee
    7.Louw/Smith/Alberts
    8.Kankowski

  • Comment 15, posted at 19.11.12 10:52:05 by Talent Reply
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    Talent
     
  • Look, not to sound as though I’m defending players, but the way it seem right now, the backs are forced to play a game plan that just doesn’t suit them. Almost none of these guys, with the exception of zane, are playing the rugby that has made them the great players that they are and that sucks big time. And I’ve noticed how everyone makes pienaar out to be this wow scrumhalf but seriously??? He’s killing the backs! He almost never feeds the backs its like play stops with him, and those kicks, def not on. Can’t see the purpose of them when you have a flyhalf anxiously waiting (who has a better view ahead anyway). I love the team, I’m just not in favor of the style of rugby they playing right now.

  • Comment 16, posted at 19.11.12 10:55:28 by Stiko85 Reply

    Stiko85
     
  • Apparently Quade has quit Aussie rugby officially.

  • Comment 17, posted at 19.11.12 11:41:06 by klempie Reply

    klempie
     
  • @wpw (Comment 1) : Same here, boeta. I was surfing the web for most of it.

  • Comment 18, posted at 19.11.12 11:42:20 by klempie Reply

    klempie
     
  • @CS (Comment 9) : I don’t understand it either. It was under him (as Director of Rugby) that the Bulls started playing a more expansive game (relatively speaking) than the Boks are now.

  • Comment 19, posted at 19.11.12 11:46:11 by klempie Reply

    klempie
     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 3) : totally agree with you on that one buddy, Hougaard in my opinion is a far better scrumhalf than Pienaar, the man doesnt even like playing wing

  • Comment 20, posted at 19.11.12 11:48:54 by Stiko85 Reply

    Stiko85
     
  • @Talent (Comment 15) : lol if by smith you mean Juan, than i disagree buddy, the man has had enough rugby to last him a life time, with all that injuries id say let sleeping dogs lay, metaphorically speaking.

  • Comment 21, posted at 19.11.12 11:51:57 by Stiko85 Reply

    Stiko85
     
  • @Stiko85 (Comment 21) : He may be past it .Long injury layoff wouldnt have done his rugby any good

  • Comment 22, posted at 19.11.12 12:07:05 by Talent Reply
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    Talent
     
  • I dont think anyone played badly- apart from CJ! But the Boks just looked so slow and laboured and never looked like getting a linebreak or anything. They looked like they were waiting for Scotland to lose the match rather than going out to win it. Watching the Arg/France game later id have to say if we played Arg on Sat we would have lost! Their backline and forwards/baks interplay was at pace and accurate! Graham Henry influence indeed! Hyneke if you have a plan I suggest you show it soon….

  • Comment 23, posted at 19.11.12 12:21:08 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • Check out this article by Craig Ray, I have to admit, with all the backlash HM and the team has been recieving lately, this article really hits home:
    http://www.arenasport.co.za/2012/11/19/winning-is-enough/

  • Comment 24, posted at 19.11.12 12:23:26 by Stiko85 Reply

    Stiko85
     
  • @Stiko85 (Comment 24) : We will probably be able to beat every team we face with this game plan, except one…the one that counts.

  • Comment 25, posted at 19.11.12 12:32:56 by klempie Reply

    klempie
     
  • @Stiko85 (Comment 24) : @klempie (Comment 25) : It’s a thought-provoking article and I can’t say that I disagree with the author but klempie’s comment 25 perfectly sums up my reservations with the way the Springboks are currently playing.

  • Comment 26, posted at 19.11.12 12:45:27 by vanmartin Reply
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    vanmartin
     
  • @klempie (Comment 25) : The game plans will work if the Boks go ahead earlyin the game. However if the Boks fall behind I cant see them coming back to win unless the opposition,like Ireland, has a shocker 2nd half.

  • Comment 27, posted at 19.11.12 13:05:39 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @Stiko85 (Comment 24) :

    Dude, Scotland are rubbish and the Boks are the 2nd best team in the world. We should be thrashing them, not scraping a win like we did on Saturday. 🙄

  • Comment 28, posted at 19.11.12 14:33:59 by wpw Reply
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    wpw
     
  • @Stiko85 (Comment 24) :

    Also, Scotland are ranked 10th in the world and the All Blacks put 50 past them last week.

    Wasn’t it a 2nd string All Black side to boot?? 😕 ❓

  • Comment 29, posted at 19.11.12 14:35:10 by wpw Reply
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    wpw
     
  • Stiko85 sure reminds me of a certain someone whom I don’t particularly miss – maybe it’s because he says “buddy” a lot 😆

  • Comment 30, posted at 19.11.12 14:48:13 by FireTheLooser Reply

     
  • @vanmartin (Comment 26) : I alluded to it after the game on Saturday, it was half tongue in cheek and in response to wpw. I was wondering why when the Stormers play a sterile, defence based game most people are happy with the result but when the Boks win ugly it is canned by the same crowd.

    For what its worth I hated the game on Saturday.

  • Comment 31, posted at 19.11.12 14:52:18 by Salmonoid Reply
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    Salmonoid the Subtle
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 30) : lol and who might that certain someone be lol??

  • Comment 32, posted at 19.11.12 14:53:12 by Stiko85 Reply

    Stiko85
     
  • We won guys that’s enough for me,I don’t like the style of rugby or even the selections but a coach lives and dies by his/her decisions we don’t have to agree with him but we do have to support him and the team as hard as it is lately.

  • Comment 33, posted at 19.11.12 14:54:00 by Poisy Reply
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    Poisy
     
  • @Stiko85 (Comment 32) : notch notch, wink wink 😉 😆

  • Comment 34, posted at 19.11.12 14:59:47 by FireTheLooser Reply

     
  • @Poisy (Comment 33) : I used to enjoy watching rugby, but the Boks playing rugby just for the sake of getting the win really has me questioning why I still suffer through an entire 80mins.

    I can just as easily wait for the final score and save myself the misery of watching the utter boredom being dished up by under utilized players coached by an inexperienced coaching staff looking to only appease the record books and stats column.

    HM seems to be coaching the game along the line of the move “Money Ball”. All stats – no passion.

  • Comment 35, posted at 19.11.12 15:05:38 by FireTheLooser Reply

     
  • @wpw (Comment 29) : actually boeta (let me leave out the “buddy” part this time lol) you’re confusing the kiwi’s second string team against italy with their very much in form team against scotland. Just wanted to point that one out to you

  • Comment 36, posted at 19.11.12 15:07:15 by Stiko85 Reply

    Stiko85
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 35) : ay ya, hate to admit it, but I have to agree with you. They boys haven’t impressed us one bit this year, not even against los pumas, which was suppose to be the game of the year but looked as pitiful as Jacob Zuma when he found out madiba will be on the money and he’s not even gonna feature. Perhaps HM will look back at this year and realize all his mistakes, and with a healthy and well rested team (hopefully) next year he can convince us that we’re not paying him for nothing lol

  • Comment 37, posted at 19.11.12 15:15:16 by Stiko85 Reply

    Stiko85
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 35) : mate we all feel like you do but we watch because our country and boys are playing this wonderful thing we call rugby even if you tried not watching the whole time you would be thinking about the game,its far from being perfect but we are called supporters for a reason

  • Comment 38, posted at 19.11.12 15:16:01 by Poisy Reply
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    Poisy
     
  • @Poisy (Comment 38) : well said Poisy, very well said. In the end we are all Springbok fans here, win or lose its still our team, we’d be swak supporters if you can’t stand by our team even in the tough times.

  • Comment 39, posted at 19.11.12 15:25:00 by Stiko85 Reply

    Stiko85
     
  • HM is kidding himself when he says he wants players to “play what is in front of them”….
    Every media pundit/fan around the world can tell what the plan is and what is going to happen next.
    The one Scot said the Boks can scrum, maul and tackle…thats it…and its the truth.

    If you give players like Pienaar, Lambie, de Jongh, Hougaard the license to play the game as they see it, we will already be competitive with the All Blacks. And even our skipper has this ability. What happened to the elusive centre from earlier in his career?? I mean Jean de Villiers has all the attributes of an attacking player.
    – He has pace (despite what people think..3rd behind Aplon and Habana at WP over 40m)
    – He has strength and power (yes they are 2 different things)
    – He is/was an elusive runner with a decent step

    It is sad to see the attacking talent be nullified by Bok management whereas AB coaches demand it!!!

  • Comment 40, posted at 19.11.12 16:06:53 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111
     
  • Oh and Mark Keohane from Keo.co.za has put up an excellent article with the above in mind…
    It is the mindset, not the lack of ability or experience. If I remember right Jake White won the Tri Nations after the fiasco of the previous year…inexperienced players are not an achilles heal if you use them correctly…

  • Comment 41, posted at 19.11.12 16:10:17 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111
     
  • CJ 1/10

  • Comment 42, posted at 19.11.12 17:05:53 by lsotjf Reply

     
  • Jacob Zuma? 😈

    Someone needs to read the rules of the site! Tsk tsk

  • Comment 43, posted at 19.11.12 17:11:10 by wpw Reply
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    wpw
     
  • @Poisy (Comment 38) : I’ll never not support the Springboks, but it might become like five day cricket for me, watch day 5 if there’s something significant happening, else just celebrate the result without watching.

  • Comment 44, posted at 19.11.12 17:19:22 by FireTheLooser Reply

     
  • Its a shame about Lambie.

    After waiting so long for his chance, he just doesnt seem to be taking it.

    Strauss was pure class over the weekend. Would love to see Brits get a game, but Strauss is playing out of his boots.

    Ditto, Flouw. Man alive, his timing is absolutely spot-on.

    Jean de Villiers. Ai. Still not a pass in sight.

  • Comment 45, posted at 19.11.12 17:28:08 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSaw
     
  • @pienaar111 (Comment 40) :

    De Villiers doesnt pass when with WP/Stormers either…

    He think he’s Japie Mulder.

  • Comment 46, posted at 19.11.12 17:31:02 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSaw
     
  • I disagree with the assessment on Lambie, I thought he had a pretty good first half. He mixed his game up well, throwing a few passes on the gainline, and yes kicked a bit too much but that was instruction. To say he didn’t pass the ball is totally incorrect, and then to give JDV a 7 because he crash balled well and defended well is an insult to Lambie. We had no ball whatsoever in the 2nd half, so how was he meant to create play?? I honestly think we expect too much from Lambie at times, even Carter would have been anonymous in that 2nd half!

  • Comment 47, posted at 19.11.12 18:13:37 by neilster Reply

     
  • Can we please get over the desperation to defend Lambie?

    I wish him well, but life is harsh sometimes – he needs to play bloody well if he hopes to challenge for the 10 jersey.

    Clearly HM rates Goosen, and Steyn is his perfect foil when on form. Lambie is not gonna get a shot at 10 unless he excels against the Poms.

  • Comment 48, posted at 19.11.12 21:04:53 by Big Fish Reply
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    Big Fish
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 48) : Assuming he is given a chance to excel against the Poms. I just get this funny feeling we will see Steyn at 10 for England. But hey, what do I know. 😉

  • Comment 49, posted at 19.11.12 22:06:17 by Dancing Bear Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 48) :

    Well said!

  • Comment 50, posted at 20.11.12 07:40:30 by Richard Ferguson Reply
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  • @Big Fish (Comment 48) : I’m sorry it came across that way! 🙂
    My point was even if what you have stated above may be true, that doesn’t mean we lose the ability to assess the situation objectively…

  • Comment 51, posted at 20.11.12 08:10:28 by neilster Reply

     
  • @Richard Ferguson (Comment 50) : Thats pretty predictable isn’t it! 🙂

  • Comment 52, posted at 20.11.12 08:10:59 by neilster Reply

     
  • Well then seeing that Lambie was so “woeful”, I hope HM drops him for Steyn and we’ll see man for man which of the two fh’s can put our lackluster backline into space with this dire gameplan.

    JdV will be completely missing and he’ll be rated with a 5 come next week.

    And Tuilagi will stroll through Steyn’s channel.

    Anyway, it is impossible to gauge Lambie’s nous at fh while playing for the Boks. I for one can’t wait for next year’s SR and seeing him do what he does best in the Black & White.

  • Comment 53, posted at 20.11.12 08:22:40 by FireTheLooser Reply

     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 48) : I don’t think it is just about defending Lambie, but a way to sum up the frustration of the coaching. Lambie gets little ball, and the ball that he does get, he can’t use the way we know he can, because of a subpar coaching method and it is sad to see a player of his skill taking stick for something that is not his fault. Believe that or not, that is anyone’s choice, but we know the way he played in the CC, that form and vision you don’t just loose in a couple of weeks. We are supporters of the Boks and we do expect more. Truth be told, we will win most games against most sides the the world, with the exeption being NZ. We will always be upstaged against them the way we were this year with this type of gameplan, while we could be so much more competitive by coaching a player’s natural skills and putting that in a gameplan. I’m not happy by just winning games, because i know the true test is not England or even Aus, but the Kiwis, and I don’t want to loose 2 games in a row against them next year, which will be the case with this style of caoching, only to win maybe all the other games and then having the excuse of we did well, we only lost against the best team in the world. So once again, Lambie is just the personification of the frustration that many fans feel as I see it.

  • Comment 54, posted at 20.11.12 08:31:46 by HeinF Reply

    HeinF
     
  • @neilster (Comment 51) :
    No, I’m sorry if it seemed I was singling you out. I was talking to a broader audience.

    @FireTheLooser (Comment 53) :
    We must be careful of not making Lambie untouchable: he plays well despite the gameplan and when he plays badly it’s because of the gameplan.

    In that case we might have to eventually side with HM; Lambie is a talented player but won’t be selected due to a poor fit to the gameplan.

  • Comment 55, posted at 20.11.12 08:32:14 by Big Fish Reply
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    Big Fish
     
  • Part of the problem is our ruck ball isn’t fast enough.

    Our players are so poorly drilled when it comes to taking the ball into contact. They take ages to go to ground because they carry in a position that often allows the opposition to hold them up .When they get to ground our cleaners take an age to secure clean ball ,in comparison to the ab’s who are extremely urgent in this aspect of play. This could be due to the fact that neither Etzebeth or Kruger do any real ruck work and our loosies are maybe just a bit slow, none of our forwards seem to hit the rucks with intent either.

  • Comment 56, posted at 20.11.12 08:36:08 by Talent Reply
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    Talent
     
  • And when the hell am I getting my other dam star 🙂 😯

  • Comment 57, posted at 20.11.12 08:39:04 by Talent Reply
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    Talent
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 55) : I think Lambie have been been adapting his playing style so that he can be included at fh, and he has done himself more harm than good in doing that.

    I don’t think Lambie’s natural playing style suits the Bok gameplan, nor do I think Goosen or Jantjies’ style suits the Boks.

    From the little I’ve seen of Pollard, he would probably be the closest fit for HM’s kick and barge game plan. (don’t know how long it will be before he’s selected, but joining the bulls was a master stroke on his part)

    Might as well stick with MS and let the talented rugby players ply their trade at their unions.

  • Comment 58, posted at 20.11.12 09:03:47 by FireTheLooser Reply

     
  • What I can’t figure out, is why/how are teams like NZ, Argies, Samoa and the French able to keep their upper bodies free from defenders (which enables them to offload in the tackle) and our boys always manage to get the ball stuck between themselves and the defender?

  • Comment 59, posted at 20.11.12 09:14:46 by FireTheLooser Reply

     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 58) : I agree bro, rugby in sa has taken a sad turn when there is more class in the clubs than in the boks team, sad turn off events when a match in kimberley (as dull as that seems) holds more excitement than a springbok match against just about any team ay. I agree lambie, elton and goosen should ma rather apply their skills in the SR and Curry Cup and leave the boring predictable rugby for steyn. I just hope that all this adapting that lambie is trying to undergo in his attempt to fit into HM’s plans doesn’t mess him up completely

  • Comment 60, posted at 20.11.12 09:21:25 by Stiko85 Reply

    Stiko85
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 53) : Agreed, I among others should – reluctantly – have cut Steyn some slack and its clearly a bigger problem than just who plays at flyhal[email protected]Big Fish (Comment 55) : Not at all, I don’t want to sound biased toward a certain player either…
    Thats the unfortunate part, we just want to see our backline click and we know Lambie can do it but he doesn’t fit the gameplan. The more I think about it, its almost as if he was picked for his goalkicking, as it clearly wasn’t because of any attacking ability since he is not being used for that.

  • Comment 61, posted at 20.11.12 09:53:31 by neilster Reply

     
  • @HeinF (Comment 54) : Well said, couldn’t agree more.

  • Comment 62, posted at 20.11.12 10:30:01 by neilster Reply

     
  • Some guys just arent cut out to be Boks. Either because they cant take the step up or because their playing style just isnt right.

    The CC is not the same as test rugby, neither is SuperRugby.

    Just sayin’.

    Shielding the guy from criticism will not help him.

  • Comment 63, posted at 20.11.12 11:43:24 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • Anyway, Lambie is only half the problem; JdV never passing is an even bigger problem.
    If he could at least off-load in the tackle then other guys could run off him. Alas, he doesnt.

  • Comment 64, posted at 20.11.12 11:44:23 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 63) : So which of the Springbok FH’s have shown to be most able to perform at international level, purely based on what they’ve done in the green and gold this year?

    Neither Steyn, nor Goosen, nor Jantjies have shown to be any better than Lambie at fh – so we have to ask the question: what is at the root of our fh and backline problem?

  • Comment 65, posted at 20.11.12 12:41:32 by FireTheLooser Reply

     
  • On another topic I see the Bulls have appointed Victor Matfield as forward and ATTACK coach for the S15. How your forward coach can also be your attack coach is beyond me

  • Comment 66, posted at 20.11.12 13:12:45 by Bokhoring Reply
    Administrator
    Bokhoring
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 64) :

    I agree that Jean is not passing and its frustrating considering our talent in the backline.

    Let’s for once have a look at Heyneke’s Bulls teams from previous years. Did Wynand Olivier ever pass (except to the linesman)??

    Nope. Meyer always had a inside centre who straightened the line and a big basher at 13 (JP Nel, Jaco Pretorius, Tiaan Joubert)

    My point is that Heyneke’s teams always play conservative rugby which is why our star players like JDV, Lambie, De Jongh, Hougaard, Ruan are not playing to their potential and this is the reason for the lack of tries/attacking rugby.

    Just my 2 cents. 😕

  • Comment 67, posted at 20.11.12 13:16:38 by wpw Reply
    Author
    wpw
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 66) : Easy, same as the Boks with van Graan, it’s called 10 man rugby – 9 playmakers, 1 kicking donkey, 5 tackle bags 😈

  • Comment 68, posted at 20.11.12 13:17:13 by FireTheLooser Reply

     
  • @wpw (Comment 67) :

    Dude, all due respect, but Jean has never passed.
    Its why I liked him on the wing!

    I just think we need to consider that maybe Lambie is not the next Dan Carter and is simply a good CC/SR player…

  • Comment 69, posted at 20.11.12 13:29:15 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 69) : If Dan Carter had to play in the SA setup he would be nowhere to the player he is now. The lack of back line coaching in the Bok team will make it difficult to really judge any player. Distribution involves more than one player – so if these guys are not in synch with running lines, supporting lines, timing of the pass, etc. you can’t really judge any of them not to be up to international rugby.

    All those require good coaching to resolve.

    From an attacking point I can’t really say that Lambie was any worse that the other fly halves we tried this year.

    I do feel he overdid the kicking – probably because he is trying to show HM how much he improved.

    I would crit the distance on his line kicks – that is something he needs to work on.

    Some of his tactical kicks worked well – other straight down the throat of the Scots.

  • Comment 70, posted at 20.11.12 14:01:13 by Bokhoring Reply
    Administrator
    Bokhoring
     
  • Vic can be attacking and forward coach as he spend half his playing days in the backline and the other half at line-outs and scrums. And if Dan Carter could play for the bokke meyer would not pick him – he’s to small.

  • Comment 71, posted at 20.11.12 16:25:11 by JD Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Administrator
    JD
     
  • @Stiko85 (Comment 20).
    Dont blame Pienaar for the gameplan. Or did you not notice that he and Lambie (and rest of the backline) have all of a sudden begun playing completely different style to how they usually play…
    when oppositions rate a player as highly as Dan Carter then you know he is the real deal!!! read this…

    http://m.scotsman.com/sport/rugby/top-rugby-stories/no-respite-for-scotland-as-ruan-pienaar-steps-up-to-the-mark-1-2639661

  • Comment 72, posted at 20.11.12 17:32:48 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111
     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 66) :

    In the classic Bulls game-plan, players 1 to 10 are attacking specialists and 11 – 15 defenders.

    Something like this:
    1-5 attack at the set-pieces and collisions.
    6-8 do too, but they are also ball carriers.
    9 is a play maker and tactical kicker.
    10 is a tactical kicker.
    12 and 13 are almost exclusively tacklers (13 more so than 12).
    11, 14 and 15 defend against kicking.

    There are some overlaps but there you have the primary tasks.

    Most fans hate it, but the Bulls have enjoyed quite a bit of success over a few decades with pretty much the same basic formula.

    I think the secret of their success lies in the relatively high level of specialization involved in the plan.

  • Comment 73, posted at 20.11.12 18:13:42 by fyndraai Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld
    fyndraai
     
  • @pienaar111 (Comment 72) :

    A mate brought up somethign over the weekend, which I think warrants a thought.

    He’s a football fan and remarked that England players never seem to deliver when playing in the England strip, but deliver in spades when playing for their clubs.
    His contention is that it is simply the pressure and expectation from the fans and the media that makes them more conservative.

    Is that also the case in SA, where players are afraid to be creative and go against the grain?

  • Comment 74, posted at 21.11.12 11:18:36 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 74) :
    you see now that is a comment with substance. very valid point.

    And it could explain why players like Jean de Villiers, Montgomery and many more were exciting attacking talents earlier in their careers and end up being solid ‘no mistakes’ men later on…

    But would you agree with this suggestion??

    – if players are given the backing of their coaches to express themselves on the biggest stage, they would be more willing to do so??

  • Comment 75, posted at 21.11.12 13:12:46 by pienaar111 Reply

    pienaar111
     

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