robdylan

Meyer’s World Cup bench men


Written by Rob Otto (robdylan)

Posted in :Original Content, Springboks on 7 Nov 2013 at 10:59
Tagged with : , , , , ,

They may be guaranteed starters for the Sharks in their favoured positions – and may both be genuine game changers of proven pedigree – but as far as Heyneke Meyer is concerned, neither Pat Lambie nor Pieter-Steph du Toit is seemingly good enough as anything other than a “utility player”, at this stage.

As the so-called “plan” continues to be revealed, I am once again baffled by the inconsistency and mixed messages being sent. Du Toit, after setting the world alight in his first senior season as a 4-lock, was touted by the Bok coach as “potentially the best number 5 in the world”, or words to that effect, yet despite a number of opportunities to do so, Meyer has steadfastly refused to give him any game time in that position. Clearly the coach wasn’t watching du Toit mastermind a Currie Cup Final triumph over Western Province based in no small part on line-out dominance; line-outs which du Toit called and ran, in concert with the Bok hooker.

Now again we are told that the young man must still develop into a top class 5 – yet it seems he’s to do that by playing 4 off the bench. Can you please make up your mind, Mr Meyer, about exactly what sort of lock you want Pieter-Steph to be? To me, at any rate, he messages are very garbled at this point.

The situation with Lambie is even more vexing – it seems that every time he is selected to the Bok squad, he is given different advice. First he was a fullback, then he was a flyhalf, then he was benched for what seems like three years, then he couldn’t be picked at flyhalf because the Sharks had used him at fullback for two games, then he got to play flyhalf and put in three very good performances, only to be benched again for another year, before being selected as starting fullback. The latest nugget of wisdom is that Lambie will be developed as a “utility player” ahead of the next World Cup, which is a nice way of saying that Meyer intends to keep him on the bench while he continues to develop his pet project, Johan Goosen, as replacement for Morne Steyn in the pivot position.

The hypocrisy of this situation is what kills me. Meyer tells Lambie he can’t play flyhalf for the Boks if he isn’t clear first-choice in that position for the Sharks. Now that he is winning games for the Sharks as clear first-choice flyhalf, he’s shifted to fullback for the national side. So what then happens when Lambie returns to the Sharks? Is he expected to play fullback – and fullback only – to retain his Bok starting spot? Because I can almost guarantee that come next year, Lambie will again find himself on the bench because he hasn’t been used in Super Rugby in precisely the way that Meyer’s vague guidance would have suggested he should be.


187 Comments

  • Rob I agree totally, HM is starting to wind me up as well. His inconsistency in what he is telling his players seem to change daily.

  • Comment 1, posted at 07.11.13 11:07:56 by Uli Reply
    Valued Sharksworld Supporter
    Uli Boelie
     
  • #@[email protected]#$%!!!!!!! 😈

    It had to be said!

  • Comment 2, posted at 07.11.13 11:10:45 by Letgo Reply
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    Letgo
     
  • @Uli (Comment 1) :
    Yep and it isn’t just Lambie and PSDT.

  • Comment 3, posted at 07.11.13 11:11:25 by Letgo Reply
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    Letgo
     
  • I think PSDT is starting to regret not going to the Bulls, and Lambie must be regretting not going to Affies as a youngster….

  • Comment 4, posted at 07.11.13 11:15:53 by Uli Reply
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    Uli Boelie
     
  • I have never been convinced about HM and to be honest at this point in time if I had my way he would be chased from town by townspeople bearing torches.

    You can be brilliant but as long as someone who has been associated with his beloved “blou” you will not get a sniff of the grass as a starter in your chosen position. It’s time to let Morne play out his retirement and start developing your next flyhalf. And let’s be honest, it must be the intellectual giant of Flip “Ja, Bismarck got a card for leading with an elbow when being tackled so I shall like to lead with my elbow when tackling someone high” van der Merwe keeping PSDT out of the team.

    Provincial bias has no place when selecting for the Boks and yet for the past two years we have witnessed example after example of sub-par Bulls being selected to the Boks by Meyer.

  • Comment 5, posted at 07.11.13 11:17:07 by Butchie34 Reply
    Author
     
  • Pretty sure Meyer is crystal clear with the players in private.

    Seriously doubt he is going to give a detailed version of his plan to the media. 🙄

  • Comment 6, posted at 07.11.13 11:17:53 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 3) : Well Coenie has been the backup tighthead for the Boks all season. Jannie gets injured and it’s a case of calling up a mediocre tighthead with no test experience to replace him.

  • Comment 7, posted at 07.11.13 11:18:33 by Butchie34 Reply
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  • @Butchie34 (Comment 5) : Provincial bias being when a Sharks player is overlooked for anyone else. 😆 😈

  • Comment 8, posted at 07.11.13 11:19:42 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 8) : Pretty much a provincial bias when he selects anyone.

    That is why he picked InZane Kirchner and shifted Willie to the wing… promises to keep.

  • Comment 9, posted at 07.11.13 11:20:34 by Butchie34 Reply
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  • @McLovin (Comment 8) : I’m sure if Werner Kruger wasn’t superkak he would have been picked as the TH for EOYT and then for the rest of HM’s reign of terror with the Boks.

  • Comment 10, posted at 07.11.13 11:21:23 by Butchie34 Reply
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  • Do people seriously think Meyer makes it up as he goes along? Or makes picks on a whim?

  • Comment 11, posted at 07.11.13 11:21:36 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @Butchie34 (Comment 5) : How many players from each province has Meyer picked?

  • Comment 12, posted at 07.11.13 11:22:45 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 11) : Nah, he’s just manic and can’t decide what the freak he wants.

    “Oh, I told Lambie to specialize on a position and he’s made flyhalf his own, better screw him around a little more.”

  • Comment 13, posted at 07.11.13 11:23:21 by Butchie34 Reply
    Author
     
  • @Butchie34 (Comment 9) : You have proof of these ‘promises’? 😆

  • Comment 14, posted at 07.11.13 11:23:36 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @Butchie34 (Comment 7) :
    Was about to say the same thing.

    He keeps on picking Coenie as reserve TH, which he isn’t, then when Coenie has the opportunity to prove himself at TH, HM goes and picks a newbie TH against one of the top 2 or 3 front rows in the world.
    Ludicrous.

  • Comment 15, posted at 07.11.13 11:24:05 by John Galt Reply

    John Galt
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 12) : I’m sure you’ll tell me.

  • Comment 16, posted at 07.11.13 11:24:12 by Butchie34 Reply
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  • @Butchie34 (Comment 13) : He said that? 🙄

  • Comment 17, posted at 07.11.13 11:24:24 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 14) : Of course, I was talking to a Bulls player the other day and he casually mentioned that HM had made a promise to each of his players that he would do his best to make sure they all became Boks! 👿 :mrgreen: 👿

    Nah, just blowing off steam and relying on hyperbole 😉

  • Comment 18, posted at 07.11.13 11:25:32 by Butchie34 Reply
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  • So Meyer can’t change his mind. Everybody keeps bitching about what a kak tighthead Coenie is, now he gets dropped and that’s also not good enough. 🙄

  • Comment 19, posted at 07.11.13 11:26:24 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 19) : He can. BUT he’s changed his mind and picked an equally lacklustre tighthead.

    Malherbe is a good defender and is good in the loose. But he is not a brilliant scrummager and the problem is that you need a good scrummager against the NH teams, particularly the Welsh who will take the Boks on up front.

  • Comment 20, posted at 07.11.13 11:28:31 by Butchie34 Reply
    Author
     
  • Meyer owes Lambie, PSDT, or any other player nothing.

    Dont let your own emotional provincial bias cloud your judgement.

    Also dont confuse your perception for fact.

    Just some general advice aimed at no one in particular. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 21, posted at 07.11.13 11:30:39 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • In Heynekes defence, I think this Bok team is a team chosen to grind out a win in difficult Northern Hem conditions against one of the best teams in the world at present.
    Wales could beat anyone on their day I reckon.

    We’ll see PSDT start next week. Probably Goosen over Lambie too which will have everyone aflutter.

  • Comment 22, posted at 07.11.13 11:31:17 by John Galt Reply

    John Galt
     
  • @Butchie34 (Comment 20) : I’m guessing the Bok coach sees things differently. 😉

  • Comment 23, posted at 07.11.13 11:31:55 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 21) :
    Youre right he owes them nothing.

    Except honesty.
    Which is what the whole article is about, not that Lambie is better than Morne or PSDT is better than Flip. That’s subjective.

    He owes them honesty and consistency in his message to them. Which hasn’t been forthcoming at this stage.

  • Comment 24, posted at 07.11.13 11:33:24 by John Galt Reply

    John Galt
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 21) : Precisely and yet some of his picks are questionable.

    Mark Keohane has a good point (and for that I will probably be flamed)in that we took a great step in the right direction in terms of our attack in the last test against the All Blacks at Ellis Park [Defence needed a lot of work] but he has taken out what was exciting about the Boks and gone back to a conservative mindset.

  • Comment 25, posted at 07.11.13 11:33:28 by Butchie34 Reply
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  • @McLovin (Comment 23) : That he has 😉

  • Comment 26, posted at 07.11.13 11:34:07 by Butchie34 Reply
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  • @John Galt (Comment 24) : I agree with you. I think before I got sidetracked that was what I was trying to say.

    That inconsistency finds a great example in Lambie. I’m happy that he’s playing and that Zane is not in the team. But my concern is that at the end of the Rugby Championship in 2012 he told Lambie that he must decide what position he wants to specialize in and make it his own. Lambie goes back to the Sharks and specializes at flyhalf. Now he’s back at the Boks and all of a sudden he only get picked as a fullback. What happened to that message that Heyneke gave to him last year? Only applicable when it suits him apparently.

  • Comment 27, posted at 07.11.13 11:37:07 by Butchie34 Reply
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  • I guess we should see the positive in that HM has chosen Lambie over Willie Leroux at Fullback in what is a VERY important game!

  • Comment 28, posted at 07.11.13 11:37:47 by CS Reply

    CS
     
  • Heyneke Meyer is the worst thing to happen to SA Rugby since Staaldraad. I will fight anyone who disagrees, and I know karate. The scary part is he is not a Harry Viljoen type, where the damage can easily be undone. This guy will leave a wake of damage with regards blue chip players all overseas. The ruining of natural talent like lambie etc etc. And we will beat Wales. Like every other springbok team ever. And he will feel vindicated.

  • Comment 29, posted at 07.11.13 11:38:01 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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    West Indies Cricket Board
     
  • @CS (Comment 28) : I actually prefer Willie le Roux at fullback

  • Comment 30, posted at 07.11.13 11:38:58 by Butchie34 Reply
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  • However, if I was Lambie… I would seriously consider a move to Europe for a few years like Frans Steyn did. Give him time away from the SA system and an opportunity to define himself once and for all as an accomplished Flyhalf.

  • Comment 31, posted at 07.11.13 11:39:09 by CS Reply

    CS
     
  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 29) : Hear hear!!

  • Comment 32, posted at 07.11.13 11:39:24 by Butchie34 Reply
    Author
     
  • The article is spot on – no beating around the bush. Unfortunately as long as HM keeps winning more than he loses, nobody ie SARU) will question his decisions. He is a good coach but he does not have the best assistant coaches he could have. I think maybe this drags him down towards that ‘conservative’ approach.

  • Comment 33, posted at 07.11.13 11:41:11 by Caratacus Reply

    Caratacus
     
  • I think everybody is being a bit harsh on Meyer. If you look at the AB’s and Aus they have always had backs that can play multiple positions successfully.

    I agree though on Meyer needing to be consistent in his messages to the players.

  • Comment 34, posted at 07.11.13 11:42:48 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @McLovin (Comment 6) :
    Dude when a player in all his interview after 1 year with HM says, I’m concentrating on only this position because it gives me a better shot at being selected there for the Boks and this after many articles where HM and other Bok correspondents was quoted as saying they can’t pick Lambie at flyhalf because he’s been playing all over the Sharks backline and then turns around and says they’ll pick him where ever they want, because they want him to be “comfortable in two positions”. That sends a major mixed message from the coaches.

    Unless they (and the player with his decision to specialize at 10) has been able to fool us all.

    Making up as he goes along, meaning he has one clear plan right now, which changes by the day. Which also gives me a clear indication that he has no idea when it comes to a couple of players.

    His selection choices recently has showed me that he knows which players did well for the Boks at some point and in his mind it’s easiest just to go back and see if it still works, with barely any plan of his own.

  • Comment 35, posted at 07.11.13 11:44:06 by Letgo Reply
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  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 29) :

    ‘and I know karate’ classic! 😆

  • Comment 36, posted at 07.11.13 11:45:18 by Pokkel Reply
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  • I am not worried too much about who plays where at the moment. Come World Cup time we will see a very different team playing in the final. The crap players always manage to play themselves out of the team. But if I could give HM some advice, is look at the history, but only if you are a bit superstitious. To win the WC the Boks need the following: A English Speaking flyhalf from the Sharks. An iconic loose-head prop. A captain in the forwards. A fullback from Natal. An inside centre that has experience playing 10 and a lock playing eightman :mrgreen:

  • Comment 37, posted at 07.11.13 11:45:44 by KingRiaan Reply

    KingRiaan
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 35) : Thank you!

  • Comment 38, posted at 07.11.13 11:47:53 by Butchie34 Reply
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  • There were questions about where Jake White plans on using Lambie, but I don’t think there is confusion. BMH made it very clear that it would be unfair to play him at fullback and as long as BMH is around, I don’t think White will try to shake up the foundation set by him, Venter, and Everitt.

  • Comment 39, posted at 07.11.13 11:54:56 by David12246 Reply

    Apollo
     
  • I think Meyer may use Lambie at 10 against Scotland, which will very likely see the return of Kirchner, which is unfortunate. Lambie will have to have the game of his life next week if he is to have any chance to start against France, but even then it’s unlikely.

  • Comment 40, posted at 07.11.13 11:56:23 by David12246 Reply

    Apollo
     
  • @David12246 (Comment 39) : I’m pretty sure Lambie will be the premier flyhalf with Fred his understudy and Timo being 3rd choice 10/second choice 15.

  • Comment 41, posted at 07.11.13 11:56:59 by KingRiaan Reply

    KingRiaan
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 35) : You think Meyer and his players communicate through the papers? What they reveal in interviews is the bare minimum if anything. The rest is just your perception. 🙂

  • Comment 42, posted at 07.11.13 11:57:38 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 21) : Agreed on all your points. How quickly we forgot the confusion that reigned each time Divvy opened his mouth. Emotions are running very high based on what is in my opinion, a very obvious horses for courses Springbok selection.

  • Comment 43, posted at 07.11.13 12:00:20 by vanmartin Reply
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  • I don’t get all the fuss really.

    Lambie, Goosen and Elton (if he wakes up again) are all behind Morne Steyn in this position. Morne Steyn is the best flyhalf available to the Boks currently, Lambie, as one of the pretenders to this position, is being groomed to fill both roles if required for the Springboks. Clearly he is rated and is more valuable than Goosen or Elton (because he can cover both positions), because he gets selected in match-day 23’s and gets game time as the second choice (which he is).

    Kirchner would have been the safe choice at fullback, Willie would have been suicide as his positional play on defence, his actual defence and skills in the air are not that great. The RWC will be played up there in 2015, EOYT 2014 is too late to ‘experiment’ or test a player’s ability in those conditions, against those teams.

    Lambie is getting an opportunity to put his hand up as the answer at 15 by being given a shot in that position against the Six Nations champions. Next week he will run out at flyhalf most probably to cement his utility value to cover both.

    To me it is quite logical.

  • Comment 44, posted at 07.11.13 12:04:32 by Morné Reply
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    Morné
     
  • @Morné (Comment 44) : Exactly this

  • Comment 45, posted at 07.11.13 12:06:26 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 43) : You heretic. The lynch mob will burn you at the stake. No facts, or rational argument will stop them. 😈

  • Comment 46, posted at 07.11.13 12:06:38 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • And in Tim Swiel you have a guy that will become a legend in Sharks rugby the likes you last had with Honiball – so calm down 🙂

  • Comment 47, posted at 07.11.13 12:07:17 by Morné Reply
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    Morné
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 42) :
    You’re the only one that is not confused by this situation. I doubt whether a coach would publicly say one thing about a player, all the while telling the player something completely different in private.

    In other words before telling the media “I am not selecting Lambie at 10 in Morne’s place (even though he’s in horrible form, kicking and otherwise – that was implied by the question the media would have asked), because he hasn’t played in that one position enough. “The Sharks has played him mostly at 15 this season, therefore I am not comfortable playing him at 10 for the Boks yet” – I remeber this, because we here at Sharksworld made a huge issue about it, because Lambie played most of his games at 10 for the Sharks anyway, which meant either Meyer wasn’t watching Super Rugby or he wasn’t watching it properly.

    After this interview with the press, you would think Lambie would be of the impression that Meyer won’t pick him to start unless he picks one position and sticks to it.

    Then during CC2012, the end of year tour and by die player himself at the start of SS2013 it is confirmed that Lambie will concentrate on 10, to better his chances of making this position his own with the Boks.

    Now HM slects him at 15 saying he wants the player to be equally good in 2 positions and you want to tell me somewhere in between all of this Meyer went to Lambie and said: “I want you to be able to cover both 15 and 10 for the Boks? And by the way don’t tell anyone that this is my plan for you. It’s a huge secret.”

    What the F man. Are you insane or are you just having fun with all of us?

  • Comment 48, posted at 07.11.13 12:08:22 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 44) : Dont come on here with your logic. 😉

  • Comment 49, posted at 07.11.13 12:08:52 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 49) :

    I have to help my emotional Sharks friends 😈

  • Comment 50, posted at 07.11.13 12:16:17 by Morné Reply
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    Morné
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 48) : Again, do you really think Lambie would attach more value to what Meyer said to the media than to any discussion they might have had in private? 🙄 Have you spoken to either Meyer or Lambie about it? Or sat in on chats between the two of them? You are stating your perception as fact. None of us knows what is really said between the two of them. And if you attach so much value and draw such significant conclusions from media interviews then indeed you are being messed with. Not by me though. 🙂

  • Comment 51, posted at 07.11.13 12:16:20 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 46) : I’m a huge Sharks and Lambie fan but I love the Bokke too. I think Heyneke has a right to his choice of players and gameplan and he has a right to change his mind. He’s not a great PR man (but few Bok coaches are) and we need to understand that. Regardless I do recognise the semblance of some long-term thinking (something I never saw with Div) and that excites me.

    Sometimes our provincial loyalties cloud our judgement and I get that too. Kirchner and Spies have however never been able to pierce my provincial haze :mrgreen:

  • Comment 52, posted at 07.11.13 12:18:14 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 52) : Same here. 🙂

  • Comment 53, posted at 07.11.13 12:21:52 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 49) :
    Aren’t we lucky to have you here to be all logical. 🙄

    I also don’t see the huge issue with the current selections, but I do rather giggle my ass off when I see certain “neutrals” play the sanctimonious voices of reason on SW.

    Provincial leanings on a site called Sharksworld??? Well I never!

  • Comment 54, posted at 07.11.13 12:21:53 by Big Fish Reply
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    Big Fish
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 54) : Thanks, I aim to please. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 55, posted at 07.11.13 12:24:33 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • Im afraid HM’s team has looked a lot better this year than it did last year. And the results have improved as well. So like his selection policy or not the fact is you have to judge him on results and not on who he selects no matter how much the guy is your favourite player. Lambie is starting at fullback this week- so rather than criticise can we not comment on what he poffers as a fullback? PSDT has been injured most of teh year and has only played 2 Currie Cup games, the fact that he is on the bench and has yet to earn a cap is a good thing. Let him play off the bench and get a taste of international rugby. Yes PSDT has had a good few games but if we going to complain about a player having good games and not being selected then im afraid Deon Fourie and Gio Aplon should be way ahead of PSDT on that list if we are honest with ourselves.

  • Comment 56, posted at 07.11.13 12:29:16 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • 50 comments, keep em coming 🙂

  • Comment 57, posted at 07.11.13 12:29:22 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 47) : Now, now Morne, dont put a curse on young Swiel like you did with Conrad Hoffman and Dan Adongo.

  • Comment 58, posted at 07.11.13 12:35:09 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 44) :
    If you believe a player is talented and a coach is stuffing that talent around – then there will always be a fuss.

    Whether you believe he is as talented as some of the rest of us believe is a different story, but that is what the fuss is all about.

  • Comment 59, posted at 07.11.13 12:36:13 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 58) :

    You broke Hoffman, Adongo seems to be a bit confused. Swiel is WP’s biggest loss since you stole Whitehead.

  • Comment 60, posted at 07.11.13 12:37:12 by Morné Reply
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    Morné
     
  • @SheldonK (Comment 56) : You make a very good point in that last sentence. @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 58) : :mrgreen:

  • Comment 61, posted at 07.11.13 12:39:20 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 59) :

    I will say what I said yesterday, and what I said in 2011, for me Lambie’s international future and ‘legend’ status is playing in the #15 jersey, not #10. The kid is brilliant, but at flyhalf he is currently behind Morne in the pecking order and is likely to remain there until RWC 2015, and by then he has Goosen to contend with who is being written and talked about like the next Dan Carter.

    Lambie has all the skill, and ability to become one of the best fullbacks we have had since Andre Joubert.

    The fact that he can play, and has played (at a RWC no less) in a number 15 jersey already makes me believe this even more. But, I suppose that is up to the player and where he sees his future in the game go.

  • Comment 62, posted at 07.11.13 12:45:08 by Morné Reply
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    Morné
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 42) :

    The only fact is that one think was said to the media by Meyer (whether what he said was relayed by the media accurately is another question). “Lambie should concentrate on one position before I can pick him”. He never corrected that statement.

    Lambie then also said to the media (and of this one I have proof). I will be concentrating on one position this year, which will be fly-half.”

    I don’t know what Meyer said to Lambie in private, but I find it hard to believe that when he first started as coach that he told the player he wanted him to be equally good in both positions, when not even a grain of this message came through the media.

    That’s all I’m saying. And it is my perception of the situation, not fact.

    Again, whether Meyer believes Lambie is as good as I, or anyone else, thinks is not the issue here. The issue is the mixed message Meyer has been sending. Maybe he’s awesome when talking to the players directly, but mostly what he has said to the media and what in turn I have been fortunate enough to have heard from him, has sounded like confusion.

    Sure it’s a good idea to have a back up 10/15, but where was this message a year ago, or at the end of year tour last year or during the mid month tours in June, or during the RC?

    I believe his message will change again soon. And that to me is nothing more than making it up as you go along.

    This is a perfect idea, no I like this instead, maybe I was right in the first place??? What part of that gives you any confidence in the way he has been doing things. Not just with Lambie, but in many different instances?

  • Comment 63, posted at 07.11.13 12:48:11 by Letgo Reply
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    Letgo
     
  • Being Springbok coach is a kak job….you will never satisfy the SA public.

    I was very critical and pessimistic earlier this year in an article that I wrote and I’ll probably have to do my ‘humble pie’ article after the EOYT.

    Bottom line is the Boks have only lost to the best team in the world this year and also played some attractive rugby doing so. Let’s give the oke a chance!

  • Comment 64, posted at 07.11.13 12:49:51 by Pokkel Reply
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  • PSdT will get his chance; just needs to bide his time.
    I think its perhaps a case of HM not wanting two rookies in the second row.

    As for Lambie – he should just be grateful he gets gametime…

  • Comment 65, posted at 07.11.13 12:51:45 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSaw
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 64) :

    Thats true Pokkel.
    HM will never satisfy you lot until there are 15 Sharks on the field.
    Likewise, he’ll never satisfy the Loftus faithful until there are 15 Bulls on the field.

    The difference is that he needs to live in Pretoria and socialise with that lot. And theyre a lot more rabid than you lot. How would he explain himself around a braai?

  • Comment 66, posted at 07.11.13 12:53:21 by VinChainSaw Reply
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    VinChainSaw
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 63) : Can’t help you, sorry. My powers are limited. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 67, posted at 07.11.13 12:56:13 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 63) : What gives me confidence is the Boks results over the past 12 months. That’s all I have to go on. Couldn’t care less for the he said she said soap opera bullshit. 🙂

  • Comment 68, posted at 07.11.13 12:59:04 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 68) : Exactly!

  • Comment 69, posted at 07.11.13 13:00:20 by Pokkel Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Author
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 63) :

    Letgo – you need to learn to read between the lines.

    When HM said “Lambie should concentrate on one position before I can pick him” what he actually meant was “Lambie needs to grow a head taller before I can pick him”.

    Once you underrstand this you’ll have an in-built code-translator and you’ll understand everything perfectly.

    And, to be fair to HM, he has a point. The hobbit RWC is normally held after the regular RWC. Although we obviously want to win both, we’re really concentrating on the regular RWC.

  • Comment 70, posted at 07.11.13 13:02:17 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • Personally, I would have played Kirchner at 15, since he is still seems the preferred long-term option.

    Also no issue with PSDT taking a back-seat until he is comfortable calling the line-outs. That’s a critical 5 skill.

    Still not a big Meyer fan though.

  • Comment 71, posted at 07.11.13 13:05:16 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big Fish
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 71) :

    I’ve never understood why it HAS to be the 5 lock that calls the line-outs. Couldn’t it be the hooker, 4 lock or even the scrumhalf that can call it?

  • Comment 72, posted at 07.11.13 13:15:29 by Pokkel Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Author
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 72) :
    Of course. Just like the loosehead can kick for poles.

  • Comment 73, posted at 07.11.13 13:20:31 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big Fish
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 72) :

    I thought EE was calling the line-outs anyway? No?

  • Comment 74, posted at 07.11.13 13:20:42 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @McLovin (Comment 68) : I would have preferred us to win those games we lost.

  • Comment 75, posted at 07.11.13 13:21:18 by Orelando_G Reply

    Orelando_G
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 73) :

    Because having a brain and being able to count is the same as being able to kick a ball?

  • Comment 76, posted at 07.11.13 13:22:46 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 72) :

    It is partly how the line out is set up and who jumps in front and in the middle/back and partly based on personal preference or theory. The person calling need to be able to read the opposition line out/movement and call based on this, so the more he can see of the line out (hence not the front jumper) the better.

    Matfield’s influence on the game led perception that the 5 lock is the ideal guy to do this, but this guy was just a freak in this area.

    Duane Vermeulen (right at the back) calls WP’s line out’s, I personally believe this is the best person to do it. Hooker and scrummy are in the worst positions to make calls.

  • Comment 77, posted at 07.11.13 13:24:55 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @Orelando_G (Comment 75) : Don’t we all. 🙂

  • Comment 78, posted at 07.11.13 13:26:27 by McLovin Reply

    McLovin
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 76) :
    That one went above your head I see…

  • Comment 79, posted at 07.11.13 13:28:20 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big Fish
     
  • @Morné (Comment 77) : Makes sense.

  • Comment 80, posted at 07.11.13 13:29:36 by Pokkel Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Author
     
  • I don’t get why the Bok lineouts are so complex that you need to serve a 12-month apprenticeship before you know how to call them.

    PS learnt how to run the Sharks’ lineout in about 3 weeks…

  • Comment 81, posted at 07.11.13 13:30:15 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 79) :

    Sarcasm doesnt translate well via writing.

  • Comment 82, posted at 07.11.13 13:30:17 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 72) :
    As Vinnie seems not to know, a few looseheads have kicked for poles – its just unusual. You have to be in the Lineout to be well placed to call it, so theoretically there are 7 people who could call it.

    Is just that the 5 is usually well placed to do so and normally the best jumper, so able to call the pressure throws on himself.

  • Comment 83, posted at 07.11.13 13:32:20 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big Fish
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 83) :

    *sticks his tongue out*

  • Comment 84, posted at 07.11.13 13:33:40 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 82) :
    Perhaps the challenge lay with the reader, rather. 😈

  • Comment 85, posted at 07.11.13 13:34:03 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big Fish
     
  • here’s what I wrote after interviewing Pat at Twickenham last year….

    http://www.sharksworld.co.za/2012/12/03/lambie-at-10-the-best-is-yet-to-come/

    Perhaps it explains some of the dismay I feel now.

  • Comment 86, posted at 07.11.13 13:34:12 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 84) : You ready to join our chat again since we’re now all supporting the same team?

  • Comment 87, posted at 07.11.13 13:36:37 by Pokkel Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Author
     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 85) :

    Or you could just learn to use your words properly.

  • Comment 88, posted at 07.11.13 13:36:53 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 86) :

    In my world we call this “anchoring”, as in, you’ve made up your mind and are not willing to consider that perhaps you are wrong.

  • Comment 89, posted at 07.11.13 13:37:41 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 87) :
    First rule of Fight Club?

    Amateur.

  • Comment 90, posted at 07.11.13 13:37:46 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big Fish
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 87) :

    No, not yet.

  • Comment 91, posted at 07.11.13 13:38:24 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 91) :

    That loss, she cut me deep.

  • Comment 92, posted at 07.11.13 13:40:27 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 92) : Didn’t realise…. 🙄

  • Comment 93, posted at 07.11.13 13:41:55 by Pokkel Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 77) :

    Correction, not Vermeulen, De Kock calls for WP

  • Comment 94, posted at 07.11.13 13:46:13 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 89) : I’ve seen no evidence to suggest that I am….

  • Comment 95, posted at 07.11.13 13:46:16 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @Morné (Comment 94) :

    Nah man, wasnt EE calling for the Boks in the RC?
    I mean, its not too far-fetched, he does everything else on the field.

  • Comment 96, posted at 07.11.13 13:47:53 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 95) :

    Lol. Thats classic irony!

  • Comment 97, posted at 07.11.13 13:48:24 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 81) :

    Jeez dude line out calling is complex these days because contesting at them are so fierce.

    It is not just about finding a jumper, that is the hooker’s job, the line out caller must find the space for his jumpers to operate in limiting opposition contesting, figure out which of the 4 to 5 different types of jumps the jumpers execute is best not only for specific situation and field position, but also ensure he knows his hookers capabilities and strong points with his throwing game all while calling the type of line outs that provides the ideal ball for the next play that was called to be executed by the backs. Then we are not even considering the triggers for each specific line out call which can be 3 to 6 triggers to confuse the opposition on the same type of line out.

    Every single movement, insignificant to us viewing it on TV, is expertly planned practiced for hours on end and changed from game to game (because you know the opposition studies hours of your footage to contest your balls). The line out caller does not simply decide who gets the ball, he is responsible for the next 3 to 5 phases that follow a line out.

  • Comment 98, posted at 07.11.13 13:55:12 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 96) :

    No, it was Juandre and when he did not play, Flip. Which is why you see Flip starting now again ahead of PSDT (because Eben cannot call line outs).

    WP did use him very sparingly in the past (when they had no option), but it is not something EE wants to do or is keen on doing.

  • Comment 99, posted at 07.11.13 13:57:23 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @Morné (Comment 98) : but am I wrong in saying that PS seems to be doing a pretty good job of calling lineouts for the Sharks?

  • Comment 100, posted at 07.11.13 13:59:24 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @Morné (Comment 98) :

    I’m with you up until your last sentence.
    The Boks do not plan 3-5 phases ahead – ever. They plan to the end of the ensuing maul!

  • Comment 101, posted at 07.11.13 14:00:37 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @Morné (Comment 99) : Eben – more of a “moerer” than a thinker.

  • Comment 102, posted at 07.11.13 14:01:20 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 100) :

    Yes but he should, he knows all their starter moves and exit plays having been with them for a long time now. Give him time to learn those of the Boks, he is the future for us in that position.

  • Comment 103, posted at 07.11.13 14:01:22 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 70) : Can’t work out if you are been serious about Lambie’s size.

  • Comment 104, posted at 07.11.13 14:02:00 by gregkaos Reply
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    gregkaos
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 100) :

    I mean NO you are not wrong, he is very good at it (and then insert the rest of my post)… 🙂

  • Comment 105, posted at 07.11.13 14:02:12 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 101) :

    🙂 They do plan, they don’t always get there!

  • Comment 106, posted at 07.11.13 14:02:42 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 102) :

    Let’s just say that the guy that calls the line outs needs to be a very sharp individual, who is willing to understand plays, study hours of footage and can think ahead or plot ahead. He also needs to understand the game plan of the team as a whole because his line out calls depend on who is free from the forwards to carry the ball and clean rucks from phases from the line out. Your line out caller should almost ideally be your vice captain or captain.

  • Comment 107, posted at 07.11.13 14:05:28 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @gregkaos (Comment 104) :

    Greggers!

    Dude 5ft 6 is just not tall enough to be a top-line rugby player.

  • Comment 108, posted at 07.11.13 14:09:30 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 100) : you are exactly right. I might be naive, but I would think currie cup finals are a bigger pressure situation than a test against Wales. Weve lost to them once in 26 matches.

  • Comment 109, posted at 07.11.13 14:11:14 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @Morné (Comment 62) :

    I respect your opinion Morne, but in this case I just have to disagree with you. This is just how I feel and who cares right … but I still have a feeling any time Lambie spends at 15 is a waste.

  • Comment 110, posted at 07.11.13 14:11:52 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Letgo
     
  • Morne – direct question for you. Do you not feel Lambie’s lack of pace is a major drawback if he’s going to play 15?

  • Comment 111, posted at 07.11.13 14:14:36 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 111) :

    You asked me the same question in 2011 🙂

    I don’t think so, because his anticipation and game-reading ability more than makes up for that. For me a 15 does not need the pace of a wing or even outside center, but he needs to make the correct decisions 99% of the time. This is why (specifically at international level) don’t rate Willie and Gio in that position.

  • Comment 112, posted at 07.11.13 14:18:08 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 110) :

    I agree with you Letgo. Anytime Lambie spends at 15 is time Willie le Roux could be spending gaining experience… 😎

  • Comment 113, posted at 07.11.13 14:18:20 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 110) :

    No worries, agreeing all the time is boring.

  • Comment 114, posted at 07.11.13 14:19:27 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • Its sad and amusing to see Lambie go down the Brent Russel route.

    Such is the lot for a hobbit in South Africa…

  • Comment 115, posted at 07.11.13 14:19:43 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • Whatever happened to your gagging order PA?

  • Comment 116, posted at 07.11.13 14:20:47 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 116) :

    No problem with commenting on discussions, problem is write ups on specific issues 😉

  • Comment 117, posted at 07.11.13 14:23:11 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @Morné (Comment 117) :

    Dude – your comments are sometimes write-ups on their own!
    😉

  • Comment 118, posted at 07.11.13 14:24:10 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 118) :

    Ssshhhhhttt! That is what I sold them and they bought it!

  • Comment 119, posted at 07.11.13 14:24:42 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 118) :

    I can tell you though there are times when I would love to say something but I will get into such kak if I did – it kills me!

  • Comment 120, posted at 07.11.13 14:25:45 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @Morné (Comment 119) :

    Ahahaha. Waiting for your book one day Morne. Or will it be an encyclopedia?

  • Comment 121, posted at 07.11.13 14:26:06 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 110) :
    … but I look forward to seeing which one of us turns out to be right, if in fact one of us turns out to be right.

    I just feel if the coaches can’t decide either way, we might both be wondering what happened to the once talented young man.

    Ruan Pienaar has never been the same since the coaches decided to try him as a Bok fly-half and then dropped him cold when he couldn’t convert a few kicks. It is just not good for a player. I think Lambie is better than just a utility player.

  • Comment 122, posted at 07.11.13 14:26:11 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Letgo
     
  • @Morné (Comment 120) :

    Is that you GrootBlouSmile… 😛

  • Comment 123, posted at 07.11.13 14:26:46 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 122) :

    Pienaar’s problem has never been positional – it has always been consistency.

  • Comment 124, posted at 07.11.13 14:27:52 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @Morné (Comment 112) : I knew I’d asked it before…. just wanted to remind myself of what the answer was cos I’d forgotten!

    I cannot shake the memory of a game against Griquas a few years back. We lost because Lambie (at 15) got burned by Riaan Viljoen and Bjorn Basson, over and over and over again.

  • Comment 125, posted at 07.11.13 14:27:58 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 115) : So Kolbe might as well start looking for a normal job then?

  • Comment 126, posted at 07.11.13 14:28:02 by Pokkel Reply
    Friend of SharksworldCompetition Winner Author
     
  • @Observer (Comment 123) :

    The world has ever seen? Wow.

  • Comment 127, posted at 07.11.13 14:28:40 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 121) :

    I will have to sell it in volumes I reckon.

    @VinChainSaw (Comment 124) :

    Haha, if Rob wasn’t online now I would have broke 5 of his 10 rules!

  • Comment 128, posted at 07.11.13 14:28:56 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @Pokkel (Comment 127) :

    Kolbe is very quick… different talent set.

    But yes, when he loses that, look for another job. Or go to jail; seems the choice is his at the moment.

  • Comment 129, posted at 07.11.13 14:29:49 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 126) :

    To be fair he had one or two shockers at 10 in the past too.

    The more he plays there, the better he will get I reckon. Of course I cannot prove it outright, but as much as I believe Lambie can be a good international 10, I believe he will be an exceptional international 15.

  • Comment 130, posted at 07.11.13 14:31:27 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 113) :

    I agree actually. I think Willie should get as much time there as possible. He still needs to work on some areas of his game, but what better time to do that than with the most experienced back-line to support you.

    I don’t mind if HM sees Morne as his number one and Lambie as the back-up, especially with Morne playing at some of his best again. He is doing for HM what HM wants a 10 to do. The Bok coach decides the game plan and if Morne fits into that plan, who am I to question it. I mean I will question it, but not because I think HM is stupid, but only because my personal opinion is that he can do better.

    But since HM has no solid back-up for Morne Steyn yet, I think it is foolish to use the player that seemingly has been the second choice for a while now, at fullback. Lambie can cover 15 fine, we all know that, what we don’t know is exactly what he can do at 10, if God forbid for HM Morne gets a long term injury that keeps him out of the game for the World Cup.

    I don’t think a Sprinbok coach should be making utility players, that should be the last of his worries. The fact is, if someone gets injured during a game, the utility player will cover that position for the duration of that match, but the chances are that you will bring in a specialist to start in that position for the next game.

    There’s enough players in SA that can fill that utility role as a bench player, comfortably. HM should be looking at players who can do a decent job if the players he’s been relying on is not available for some reason.

  • Comment 131, posted at 07.11.13 14:35:40 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Letgo
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 124) :
    He was consistent with the Sharks until he became a Bok and they decided that he might be better as a 10. He was even played at 15 a few times. That doesn’t help a players confidence or consistency.

    But I do feel he always had a problem with his confidence, in that he was a confidence player and after the whole Bok debacle he never had the same type of confidence that he started out. That in itself is a flaw of the player, but anyway… I thought the Boks wasted another good talent and it wasn’t HM that time, it was actually a coach that I always liked.

  • Comment 132, posted at 07.11.13 14:41:41 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Letgo
     
  • Meyer is clearly a passionate man, but also clearly a stupid one. PSDT wont start at 5, because Meyer wants Matfield there along with every other geriatric from the past.

    Next call will be his call to John Smit asking him to dust off his boots.

  • Comment 133, posted at 07.11.13 14:42:50 by Saffex Reply

    Saffex
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 113) : Based on his defensive performance against NZ Willie le Roux’s time would be best spent with the tackle bags 🙂
    Made 1 missed 6 is not good enough no matter how good he is on attack.

    @Morné (Comment 112) : I agree – Lambie’s greatest advantage is between his ears. His positional play, decision making and general reading of the game are outstanding. Incidentally, while he is definitely not quick enough to play wing or 13 I don’t think he is as slow as some people seem to think – he wouldn’t make the line breaks he does if he was.

  • Comment 134, posted at 07.11.13 14:43:57 by steve Reply

     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 123) :

    Plus today for the first time in a very long time I have a chance to catch up on all the chat, boss is away and things are fairly quiet.

  • Comment 135, posted at 07.11.13 14:45:05 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 108) : Erm.. Wow… Lambie is 5ft 10in

    So on your logic. Poor ol’ Dan Carter wouldn’t make our team. Seeing as he is 5 ft 10. Cruden is smaller at 5 ft 9. Jonny wilkinson… Yup you guessed it… 5 ft 10.

    Goosen standing the tallest at 6 ft 1 but as we all know is infinitely more fragile than any 10 mentioned here. Morne Steyn is 6 ft. Taller than most 10s but is not known for his defensive capabilities.

    So who is the huge mythical no. 10 you’d pick (or think HM is waiting for)? Please don’t say Catrakilis because he is 5 ft 10 too.

  • Comment 136, posted at 07.11.13 14:45:11 by gregkaos Reply
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    gregkaos
     
  • @Saffex (Comment 133) : Haha. Smit? Never. But Liefling Hougaard….watch this space

  • Comment 137, posted at 07.11.13 14:50:06 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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    West Indies Cricket Board
     
  • @gregkaos (Comment 136) :
    Lambie looks shorter than the rest because he is stronger than all of them!!! 😉

    And hobbits have good character with huge hearts and with passion and determination can achieve more than the rest.

  • Comment 138, posted at 07.11.13 14:51:20 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Letgo
     
  • Guys sorry to change the subject but who do you guys think is going to be Jake White’s captain? Got a feeling it wont be Keegan

  • Comment 139, posted at 07.11.13 14:54:36 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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    West Indies Cricket Board
     
  • @West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 139) :

    It will be a forward.

  • Comment 140, posted at 07.11.13 14:57:09 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @Morné (Comment 140) :
    That who else but Bissie.

    It won’t be Beast, Jannie (Herbst, Dale), Peet, PSDT, Marcell, Alberts, Keegan, Kanko … then it must be Bissie?

  • Comment 141, posted at 07.11.13 15:05:33 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Letgo
     
  • @gregkaos (Comment 136) :

    Ooooh, I caught a big one there! Bravo lad!

  • Comment 142, posted at 07.11.13 15:07:51 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @Morné (Comment 140) : @Letgo (Comment 141) :

    Unless Jake goes for a young player and then I’m backing Marcell in the forwards or Lambie in the Back.

    If he goes backs it could be FSteyn.

  • Comment 143, posted at 07.11.13 15:08:05 by Letgo Reply
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    Letgo
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 141) :

    I would not throw PSDT out of the mix just yet. If this decision (to appoint a captain) is White’s, he is not the type of guy scared to invest in a youngster for such a role.

  • Comment 144, posted at 07.11.13 15:09:27 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @Morné (Comment 144) :
    Yip, I agree. For the first time today! 😀

  • Comment 145, posted at 07.11.13 15:11:08 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Letgo
     
  • @Morné (Comment 144) :
    Also one way to keep the Bolander invested in KZN.

  • Comment 146, posted at 07.11.13 15:11:17 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big Fish
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 145) : @Big Fish (Comment 146) :

    Exactly. He is on many union’s wanted list, he is also clearly a sharp lad with something between the ears, has no problem taking up leadership type responsibilities like with the line outs, and is also the lead by example type player…

  • Comment 147, posted at 07.11.13 15:13:37 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @Morné (Comment 147) :

    And it would be kak funny to see the Sharks with an Afrikaans dude as a captain while the Bulls have a soutie…

  • Comment 148, posted at 07.11.13 15:15:38 by Morné Reply
    Author
    Morné
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 142) : ah.. I got trolled. Damnit. Ok will keep that in mind for any other posts you make.

  • Comment 149, posted at 07.11.13 15:22:50 by gregkaos Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    gregkaos
     
  • Bismarck will be Sharks captain, end of.

  • Comment 150, posted at 07.11.13 15:24:04 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 150) : think so too. Will be so happy

  • Comment 151, posted at 07.11.13 15:30:50 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 150) :

    It’s hard to imagine that any other player would be selected – then maybe we can discuss vice-captain. Hopefully Bissie is fit this season and that won’t be an issue anyway.

  • Comment 152, posted at 07.11.13 15:31:44 by Letgo Reply
    Friend of Sharksworld Author
    Letgo
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 152) : Lambie

  • Comment 153, posted at 07.11.13 15:35:21 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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    West Indies Cricket Board
     
  • @Letgo (Comment 152) : Jake is going to have a riot on his hands if he doesn’t pick Bissie. Trust me

  • Comment 154, posted at 07.11.13 15:45:32 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • I also don’t think it will be Keegan as I don’t think he will be in the starting team if everyone is fit. Jake is on record to not favour a smaller player. Hope it is Bissie.

  • Comment 155, posted at 07.11.13 15:45:59 by Bite me Reply

    Bite me
     
  • This conversation has gone from entertaining to educational in a very short time-frame. Thanks for the info-dump, it’s brightened up some really boring work.

  • Comment 156, posted at 07.11.13 15:57:31 by vanmartin Reply
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    vanmartin
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 154) : riot by fans or players?

  • Comment 157, posted at 07.11.13 16:03:18 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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    West Indies Cricket Board
     
  • @robdylan (Comment 154) :

    Ooh, I really hope it is Bissie.

    Who will then calm the team down when he loses his head?

  • Comment 158, posted at 07.11.13 16:22:53 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • you don’t need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows

  • Comment 159, posted at 07.11.13 16:31:12 by robdylan Reply
    Competition Winner Administrator
    robdylan
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 158) :
    Go on, go off about Thugbis again. 😆

  • Comment 160, posted at 07.11.13 16:33:29 by Big Fish Reply
    Author
    Big Fish
     
  • For me, for the future of Sharks rugby it has to be PSdT as captain and Lambie as v/c or vice versa.

  • Comment 161, posted at 07.11.13 16:42:01 by FireTheLooser Reply

     
  • The type of hits PSdT has been able to inflict whilst keepong his head and staying calm is a rare attribute indeed.

    Same with Lambie, never gets overly emotional or allow players or situations to get under his skin.

  • Comment 162, posted at 07.11.13 16:49:16 by FireTheLooser Reply

     
  • @Big Fish (Comment 160) :

    Lol. Glad the name is sticking! Thugbis!

    If he carries on like this he’ll be remembered as a poor man’s Uli Schmidt post-retirement.

  • Comment 163, posted at 07.11.13 16:50:57 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 162) :

    I really cant wait to see him and Eben playing together.
    It could be a thing of beauty. Such athletes.

  • Comment 164, posted at 07.11.13 16:51:32 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 164) : Imagine facing a team with the bruiser quadrangle of Bismarck, Eben, PSdT and Alberts.

    The poms must be etternally greatful that they don’t have to face the Boks this time ’round.

  • Comment 165, posted at 07.11.13 17:02:30 by FireTheLooser Reply

     
  • @FireTheLooser (Comment 165) :

    The thing is – when you have two brutes in the middle of your engine room, then you dont need bruisers for loosies. It means you can pick two quick loosies.

    But yes, add ni Jannie, Beast and Vermeulen and you have a big, big pack.

  • Comment 166, posted at 07.11.13 17:05:55 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • This is my take on the Lambie issue….HM as the Sprinbok Coach has an accountability to coach and develop the players he picks in his squad…last EOYT Pat Lambie was the flyhalf incumbent but later in this year he was relegated to the bench as Morne had been showing the better form in SR, no problem with this at all. Here comes my problem…as the backup flyhalf to Morne, he needed to be given game time to ensure his development, match fitness and game sharpness, this is where HM failed Lambie and the fans becos if Morne had been carried off in the first few minutes of that final test against the AB’s what wud the expectation have been on Lambie to perform…and that risk remains a reality through this tour

  • Comment 167, posted at 07.11.13 18:13:28 by SharkED Reply

    SharkED
     
  • @SharkED (Comment 167) :

    “HM as the Sprinbok Coach has an accountability to coach and develop the players he picks in his squad”

    Erm… no he doesnt. Players do not need to be coached at Bok level – there its all about getting the side to gel. There isnt enough time to coach players at that level – coaches expect players to already know what they’re doing.
    He also has no obligation to develop players – that is the remit of provincial coaches. Players come to the Boks as the complete player they are going to be; its not a training ground to develop players.

    Furthermore, its pretty obvious HM does not rate Lambie as his first, or even second, choice.

  • Comment 168, posted at 07.11.13 18:59:59 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • Jack of all trades master of none!!!!!!!! Pick a number and keep to it, changing around will only stuff-up a player. Any one remember how deurmekaar Frans was before he left for France or Ruan before Ireland or even one Brent Russel???????? Lambie is a 10 and should stay at 10 if the Bokke don’t have a good 15 on tour it’s HM faul as he did not pick one!!!!!!!!! Same goes for Coenie, he will never be a thighthead no matter how long he playes there, pick a real 3 and leave Coenie at 1!!!!!!!!

  • Comment 169, posted at 07.11.13 19:57:33 by JD Reply
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    JD
     
  • @JD (Comment 169) :

    Take it easy bruv.

  • Comment 170, posted at 07.11.13 20:06:16 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 168) : maybe it was my choice of words I never meant coach in terms of skills but rather coach and develop the players iro the structures and gameplans he intends to implement, every player has strengths and weaknesses and if he is not developing his players he will not get anymore out of them, no coach plcks players and just throws them on the field to play. My point still stands about the backup flyhalf….but if, as u say, MH does not rate Lambie then Robs initial point is correct wrt to the mixed msgs being given to the player, it then also does not say a lot for HM’s integrity as a coach or a person if he cannot be honest with the players he himself has picked…

  • Comment 171, posted at 07.11.13 21:50:30 by SharkED Reply

    SharkED
     
  • Well, at least they are in the team while Ludik is hands down the best full-back of the last 3 years but didn’t even get called up

  • Comment 172, posted at 08.11.13 03:58:32 by TRF_Ezequiel Reply

    TRF_Ezequiel
     
  • I feel sorry for Lambie. He played in the S15 under Plum where we played a conservative game. Then he was forced to sit on the Bok bench for the Currie Cup when he would have benefited from the great Brendan. Meyer will look to a fairly successful Rugby Championship from Steyn and 3 missed kicks by Lambie in the final. You’ve got to get your kicks particularly in the NH. Lambie needs to have an 80% plus S15 kicking stat and to do well with his tactical kicks to be able to break in. He also needs the Blue Eyed Goose to have a difficult season. I just hope Jake lets him express himself next year.

  • Comment 173, posted at 08.11.13 06:14:37 by MikeSebMatt Reply

    MikeSebMatt
     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 170) :

    You had a lot of fun yesterday, didn’t you? 🙂

  • Comment 174, posted at 08.11.13 07:52:02 by Letgo Reply
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    Letgo
     
  • I think HM has a plan and Lambie does not fit in it. I think he has made up his mind about using Morne and Goosen as his long term flyhalves. All the inconsistent stuff he sprouts to the press about Lambie is just a smokescreen to justify his decision not to pick him. At 15 it is probably a bit more open at this stage – which is why Lambie does get the odd opportunity in the position. I doubt that he is a big Willie fan either.

    Unfortunately Lambie will have to put over 100% of his kicks for a whole season, miss not a single tackle, create 2 tries and score at least 1 try per S15 match before HM will even consider him at 10 for the Boks.

    Lambie pretty much has two choices – hang around till after the WC and work on being the best 10 he can be, or go north and make the big bucks.

  • Comment 175, posted at 08.11.13 08:48:19 by Bokhoring Reply
    Administrator
    Bokhoring
     
  • On the other hand I think he really rates PSDT and will probably blood him slowly. Starting a test against the 6N champions (and core of BI Lions) with 2 debutantes in the pack is just not something that HM would ever do.

  • Comment 176, posted at 08.11.13 09:13:02 by Bokhoring Reply
    Administrator
    Bokhoring
     
  • Just my 2 cents on Bissie being captain, he’s gonna have to improve his discipline big time. No thugby as we’ve become used to recently

  • Comment 177, posted at 08.11.13 09:33:48 by Ludz Reply

    Ludz
     
  • Think HM knows what he’s doing and is clear with the players!! Scrums are gonna be key and that’s why flip is there…..for extra weight. PS is good and will probably be our nr5 lock come worldcup, but hasn’t done anything yet. He looked good in cc final against a very very bad WP lineout. IF lambie wants that nr10 jersey he’s gonna have too prove it in the s15 not the cc. Until then morne steyn stays! And he can pick any young flyhalf as backup….goosen. Stop moaning about the bulls, there’s like 3 bulls players in the squad and they were SA best s15 team….cc means nothing really. Bokke looks like a good team. Go bokke!!!!!

  • Comment 178, posted at 08.11.13 11:28:21 by KingsArmy Reply

     
  • @Bokhoring (Comment 175) :

    Pretty much exactly the post I wanted to make.

    There are no mixed messages – Lambie is not first-choice and will be used when there are no other options available.

    This is nothing new in this – every coach has had his favourites that arguably were not the best.

    Christie had the Pienaar – Strauss issue.
    Mallet had the Teichman – Skinstad fiasco.
    White had his fetcher issues.
    De Villiers had his Smit – Thugbis issue.

    To name but a few. Coaches like what they like.

  • Comment 179, posted at 08.11.13 11:57:25 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @KingsArmy (Comment 178) : Cant argue with you on those points!

  • Comment 180, posted at 08.11.13 12:00:16 by SheldonK Reply

    SheldonK
     
  • @TRF_Ezequiel (Comment 172) : very true,shouldve had an opportunity.plus having showed himself capable on the wing and at 13 couldve made a case for bench player at the very least.it is sorry that he is lost for the sharks and -it will seem-bokrugby.

  • Comment 181, posted at 08.11.13 14:39:05 by 50shadesofblackandwhite Reply

     
  • @VinChainSaw (Comment 179) : I can’t argue with what ur saying here, its unfortunately the way it is, I suppose the only consolation for Lambie is that he’s young enough to outlast HM’s tenure as coach and of course hope the next coach is open to his style of play….

  • Comment 182, posted at 08.11.13 17:03:59 by SharkED Reply

    SharkED
     
  • It’s not just that Lambie was not playing 10 at the Sharks last year, it’s that we was not the preferred 10 for the Sharks. Their record with him was quite mediocre. Outside the confines of this site there were some real questions about his suitability as a fly-half.

    In that context, Meyer’s reluctance to select him at 10 was perfectly reasonable.

    Those doubts have been put to rest now. Both in the last November tour and the 2013 SR, he has shown himself to be a very capable 10. Especially when playing the kicking game. Based on Steyn’s return to form though, he is still 2nd choice. What would be the point then of playing him whilst Steyn is healthy and in form? To see if he can do it? That’s known already.
    So? Select him at 15, where there is a need and where it’s also well known that he is very capable.

    You guys should be happy for him. Not only did he get a starting spot, he got it in the best possible team for this important match.

  • Comment 183, posted at 09.11.13 03:58:26 by fyndraai Reply
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    fyndraai
     
  • And for those of you of the opinion that HM is an idiot.

    His Bok record at this point is just about exactly the same as both that of White and de Villiers at the same point in their Bok careers.
    He could not possibly be more (or less) of an idiot than either.

  • Comment 184, posted at 09.11.13 04:04:13 by fyndraai Reply
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    fyndraai
     
  • @fyndraai (Comment 184) : they did it with local players and they beat the all blacks. Pdivvy klapped them 4-0 between 08 and 09. Heyneke and Jean cant hope to beat the AB’s for as long as they keep idolising them

  • Comment 185, posted at 09.11.13 09:34:50 by West Indies Cricket Board Reply
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    West Indies Cricket Board
     
  • @fyndraai (Comment 184) :

    Dont really rate either White or de Villiers so not so sure what your point is.

    When you set the bar that low, even schoolchildren can climb over it.

  • Comment 186, posted at 11.11.13 17:29:09 by VinChainSaw Reply
    Author
    VinChainSaw
     
  • @fyndraai (Comment 184) :

    And HM’s “record” has come at some cost. Playing players into the ground, filling up the side with players playing abroad.

    At some point there’ll be a price that needs to be paid for thiose decisions.

  • Comment 187, posted at 11.11.13 17:29:54 by VinChainSaw Reply
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