As press speculation continues to fuel discussion relating to the vacant Sharks’ head coaching position (I believe John Mitchell just turned the job down for a third time, which means it’s time to link Jimmy Stonehoue again) I think we all need to consider the reality of the situation. Let’s take a step back.
Just yesterday, it was confirmed that Frans Ludeke has no future in Pretoria. With the Bulls having already lost backline coach Pieter Rossouw, there are several coaching vacancies at Loftus that need to be filled in time for Super Rugby next year, with the smart money not being on their hastily-appointed Currie Cup coaches being asked to take the step up quite so soon. Whoever takes on that job will be faced with a rather daunting rebuilding task, given just how much of a senior player exodus there’s been and also due to the repeated failing of the one-dimensional gameplan employed by Ludeke. With a pipeline of young talent longer than even Victor Matfield’s arm, though, you’d have to look at that Bulls vacancy as a great opportunity for a coach to come in and build a special legacy, starting with a fresh group comprising the cream of the nation’s age-group players.
Moving South, the Stormers are also in need of a new head coach (and perhaps even a forwards coach too, given that Matt Proudfoot is also linked to a Japanese gig). Facing similar questions around game plan and faced with a smaller, yet not insignificant exodus, the Stormers job is unlikely to be an easy one either. Perhaps most daunting for an incoming coach would be the notorious Cape rugby “politics”, coupled with no shortage of expectation of success, given the side’s recent achievements. Just ask Gary Gold how much fun it is to take a side form winning the SA conference one year, to not doing so the very next. On the plus side, though, the balance of power in the junior game appears to be shifting from Pretoria to Cape Town at the moment and with two great academies and two strong Varsity Cup teams in the region, the Western Province talent pool is large and healthy, again a key factor for a coach looking to build something.
The Kings, bless them, have appointed the unheralded Brent Janse van Rensburg as Currie Cup coach, but don’t appear to have any real leads as far as a Super Rugby coach goes, not since Swys de Bruyn turned them down. They’re a bit of a basket case at the moment and one feels that their chances of picking up a “serious player” in the coaching game ahead of next year would be slim.
What about our beloved Sharks, though? As you can probably tell, the case I’m building here suggests that even if all of the fantastic coaches who are continually (and spuriously) linked with the job were to be both available and genuinely interested in coaching a Super Rugby franchise, why on earth would we be so arrogant as to assume that the Sharks would be their first choice? Recent success? Nope. Stability? Nope. Assistant and junior coaches with a proven track record? Nope. Healthy conveyor belt of junior talent? Well, apart from one or two names, nope. Exciting, dynamic game plan? Passionate, loyal fan base? Modern, convenient stadium? Winning culture at all levels, including junior rugby and Vodacom Cup? I’m painting an overly negative picture, of course, but we need to understand at least some of the concerns that would be going through any potential coach’s mind when weighing up the options on the table.
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“so arrogant as to assume that the Sharks would be their first choice?” Throwing more money at them is our only hope.
@Seth101 (Comment 1) : “or so arrogant as to assume that we have more money than anyone else”….
I hope the bulls appoint p divvy. Possibly the most unfairly lambasted coach of all time… But alas, Dr Brendan reckons Johan van graan so who am I to argue. From a sharks perspective I expect a few more ex players mentioned alongside Dick Muir. Dare I hope for a ewan McKenzie or Robbie deanes?
Negative picture but also realistic. Whoever takes the job is going to have to put up with all those issues for at least the first year and many of them probably second year and some of them in year 3. All thing going well and a revolution being agreed to on all levels and for all those areas. If I were a world class coach I would need a few weeks to consider as well.
The picture you painted wasn’t overly negative. It was overly true. 😯
@robdylan (Comment 2) : Yea, but I think realistically it’s our only hope. Lets be honest one good thing Smitty has done is fix our cash flow. We just got that R12mill from KZN tourism so throw that at a coach not to mention the extra money lying around post Dup bro departure.
I just really hope we get someone good. Anyone good please please please?
I read the Muir piece, but hell he didn’t fare well at the Lions when he was there…
@robdylan (Comment 2) : I don’t think anyone is under such an illusion. We know province has all the cash then bulls, current sponsorships accepted even the Lions are probably ahead of us. The only union in the coach race we could possibly beat is kings and probably only because of our history and feeder systems.
@Dragnipur (Comment 7) : ‘I read the Muir piece, but hell he didn’t fare well at the Lions when he was there…’
that is a understatement if there ever was 1 …
@coolfusion (Comment 8) : I think the Lions work better with the money we have ATM then the Sharks . Dont think we necessarily have more of it per say .
@Zibbie (Comment 9) : but on the other hand, he was very successful as head coach of the Sharks.
@robdylan (Comment 11) : sure yes well you know im saying this from a Lions prospective . Maybe Muir will work for you .
Dont think it would be a bad move .
@Zibbie (Comment 10) : The sad thing is that sharks have a brilliant opportunity to rectify most of their mistakes now. Matt leaving dup brothers off the roll get rid of Perez murray Hoffmann, there is opportunity for somewhat of a recovery. I think as fast as John and the business end is making it, it’s being burned on the other end. This is why a dedicated d o r is important. So getting a coach at a high cost is an investment that will free up the d o r and business side to do what they should be…
@coolfusion (Comment 13) : You need somebody that fits in with the Durbz culture . I agree with Mark Andrews on that topic .
My personal feeling is you dont need somebody flashy . you need somebody solid that comes in and do what needs to be done .
Somebody that will stay at the very least 4 years . You guys dont need to be looking for a new coach next year .
I find this an unnecessarily negative article designed to ellict responses on a quiet day.
If you do not know what is special about the Sharks what the fuck are you doing here.
This is a very special union that is merely going through a depression.
Every union goes through one,look at the once invincible Crusaders didn’t even make the playoffs.
I truly believe that by the end of the Currie Cup season we will back on the way up.
We just need to rid this union of all individuals who would like to be some where else.
Either man up or ship out.
The day I don’t believe that you won’t find me hanging around this forum
@Zibbie (Comment 14) : Some one like Ackermann
@The hound (Comment 15) : And the Bulls or Stormers aren’t ‘Special’?. Unfortunately ‘Special’ is not going to hire us a coach of international standard, money and structure will.
@Seth101 (Comment 17) : Not to me they are not.
There you are so wrong,money will buy you a mercenary,special will get Alex Ferguson.
@The hound (Comment 16) : haha . Hopefully the Lions have learnt a thing or 2 on keeping people at the union .
Well personally I think a dock Muir Mark Andrews combo would work well then a good backline coach maybe rob du preez will fit? Bring Monty back as kicking coach. Let horak go? Move Everitt to head up VC.
I have two suggestions:
1) Let’s start a crowd funding campaign so we can afford the best possible coach
2) Let’s lure Morné away from SARU so he can coach the Sharks
@Culling Song (Comment 21) : come on, can you imagine the stink that will be kicked up if Morne (who has never played pro rugby, much less coached a high profile team) is appointed by the Sharks? Ignore the fact that he’s better than any of the big-name former players out there….
@Culling Song (Comment 21) : You have almost as much chance to lure Naas away from Supersport to become kicking coach.
@Culling Song (Comment 21) : Ive said the same thing. Lets crowd fund it! Its not impossible. Ill gooi a couple of bucks at Clive Woodward anyday!
it assumes me some of the names thrown about to coach the Sharks. Lets be slightly realistic or we may as well be news24.
I strongly believe with Gold as Director, coaches from within the sytem should be promoted- but not a thousand of them- max 2 for CC and Super rugby. 1 forwards, 1 backline. Keep it simple and effective. Now is not the time for a thousand new ideas from numerous sources but rather a simple and clearly communicated game plan. My picks Everitt or Keyser for the Backs. Paul Anthony or Albert Van Den Berg the forwards.
Some news from CT…..Proudfoot rumoured to be heading to Japan….apparently Deans , Plumtree and Mitchell turned us down. Talk now of Dobson doing the WP and Stormers HC role, with Mitchell being employed in a Consultancy role to assist Dobson.
Also , Alistair confirmed WP would need to recruit in order to take the Stormers to next level, and confirmed negootiations ongoing with Cornal Hendricks, PSDT , M Coetsee and that the Goosen talks sadly look less likely to happen. The view is a experienced and class 10 was drfinitley on the radar…..
@ robdylan (Comment 22) : all I know of Morne is his postings on here are interesting and it seems he commands a lot of respect from everyone. Whats his full name? I wanna google him 😀
The way I would have written this article,would have been from the perspective of,what calibre of coach can we really expect to attract who would be prepared to come third in the pecking order to Venter and Gold.
Not one that has been mentioned on this page so far.
@The hound (Comment 15) : I dont think you quite caught the meaning of what the man was trying to say, but anyways…
No big name international coach is going to come to the Sharks and work under a director of rugby and do things his way. They will all want to do things their own way with their own people.
Start a legends mentorship program te iceman Andrews coach locks 8th men smit coaching hookers Ollie Guy the props etc Andre the fullback honeyball the flyhalfs etc.
A thought. Dick and Gary’s coaching philosophies were at odds when they worked with divvy and the boks. Probably why that won’t happen…
@The hound (Comment 28) :
You can submit articles you know. Maybe write a few before you disparage the efforts of those who do.
I am sure that you mean well, but if you understand the efforts it takes, you will not be so quick to dismiss the opinion of those who invest the time.
@SheldonK (Comment 30) : director of rugby is a stupid fucking concept.
@West Indies Cricket Board (Comment 34) : I really disagree if it is done correctly. It ensures continuity within a Union so that everything doesnt fall apart if the top teams coach leaves. The problem with these big name coaches talked about is that they come in…want everything their own way…and then when they leave a Union has to start all over again. Rugby is a business so just like managers are groomed to be directors so should coaches from within be groomed to eventually become coaching director and they will groom the next lot etc.
@Big Fish (Comment 33) : I have earned my living as a writer for 40 years,I am fully aware of what it means.
The first thing you learn is if you publish then you open yourself up for criticism.
Sorry my friend I stand by everything I said in that comment.
If we have this high profile Dir is not wise to invest in a less snr coach who has all the credentials. As mentioned on this site prev Robert du Preez perhaps?
@robdylan (Comment 2) : @Seth101 (Comment 1) : Very well put and further what serious Southern Hemisphere coach is going to work under GG & BV,both SR novices and it shows
@Zibbie (Comment 10) : what a joke mate,do you realise the money available now to the Lions with your sponsors,watch it at work if you don’t make SR playoffs at minimum,buy buy will go all homegrown nonsense and out will come the big loot,watch
@SheldonK (Comment 35) : The problems in VC and incredible loss of talented youngsters shows why there must be a strategic position like dir of rugby. But maybe the dir of rugby and head coach both need to report into the board instead of the current structure? One deals almost exclusively with one team specific performance the other is talent management structutes and training for the long term.
@benji (Comment 39) : Well actually it already has since at least 30 % of tuat team was not homegrown. Same with all teams you build or buy.
@The hound (Comment 36) :
Like I said, I am sure you mean well, but do remember that this is not a paid writing gig – this is done purely out of passion for the game.
@The hound (Comment 36) : eish mate you barking up the wrong tree this time
@The hound (Comment 28) : and there’s yourt article right there
I can’t recall who suggested it but the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of giving Robert du Preez (Senior) a go.
@benji (Comment 43) : or do you mean pissing on the wrong tree.
@Big Fish (Comment 42) : every thing I post here is out of passion for the Sharks.Sometimes I might go a little far but hey controlled tempered passion is hardly passion
@coolfusion (Comment 40) : Surely the Head Coach falls under DOR responsibility so would report to him. And the the DOR would be accountable to his employers (The Board). The DOR would be responsible for overall playing structure but team specific game plan etc would fall to Head Coach.
@SheldonK (Comment 47) : While that is the intention. I don’t know if we will be able to get all we want I.e A great and experienced coach and willing to report to Gary. It may be easier to just change the hierarchy to get the desired effect? Just thinking of solutions…maybe we need a unique setup for now?
Off topic isn’t is strange how Jaques Fourie made a u turn on his decision to retire and once again become available for bok selection. Would be quite good to see him and de Allende next to each other.
@vanmartin (Comment 45) : Morne did
@coolfusion (Comment 49) : After such a long Japanese holiday, will he still have what it takes?
@Bokhoring (Comment 51) : Dunno. That’s why I would like to see him with Damian. Before rwc.
@vanmartin (Comment 45) : Robert would only work if he had total control ,I can’t see him working in the same environment that Brad was exposed to.
Robert has a very short fuse.
did anyone catch the twenty year rerun of the 95 WC victory,some lovely shots of the three stooges together on the bench.
Venter ,Nakka and Strauelli,I think only Strauelli made it onto the field last 10 min of extra time for Mark.
The game has come such a long way since then,no lfting in the lineouts and immediate engaged scrums.
@coolfusion (Comment 48) : Thats why i dont think we should target these high profile coaches. Promote from within, but dont end up with 100 coaches.
@The hound (Comment 54) : those were the days you could only replace a player if he was injured and certified by a Docter that he could not continue. Venter came on for Small when he got cramps.
@The hound (Comment 46) : I’m not actually all that bothered by what you said. It has a bit of merit, even if you misunderstood my intention.
@benji (Comment 39) : thats the story in the media . and im sort of happy with that . Focus on players that want to be at the union
@Zibbie (Comment 58) : Yup personally unless you are losing a heap of money. No sense in expending time and resource on someone who wants to leave. Rather focus on what will happen after he is gone and get plans rolling. Which judging by the little comments smit and gold are making on the psdt issue, is what they are doing. Or so I hope.
@robdylan (Comment 57) : I know that and appreciate you immensely and am sorry if I some times come across as a cantakerous old c…..,but unfortunately thats what I am,ask my wife.
@The hound (Comment 53) : I’m thinking Gold is the carrot and Robert the stick? Agreed on your point though, whoever they appoint as head coach, they’ll need to be entrust that coach with more control and stick to that decision. One does get the feeling that part of this season’s problems can be attributed to ‘too many cooks’.
@The hound (Comment 60) : there’s no doubting the passion, bud. It moves us in different ways. I admire your steadfast and unwavering belief that things are always going to get better.
I get cynical too quickly. But it’s really because of how much I care.
It would seem the holiday Inn has some vacancies, and you can now book online. ….
@vanmartin (Comment 61) : I want to see a very select coaching group in Currie Cup.
Gold, Everitt and a forwards coach whose name I probably can’t share yet.
@The hound (Comment 60) : @robdylan (Comment 62) : aaaaaww you kissed and made up!!!! Hahahaha We all love the Sharks that’s why we all get so pissed off at times!!!! Sharks4live!!!
@robdylan (Comment 64) : now that’s just cruel to say things like that and leave us in the dark. Maybe we should call you eskom as they also leave us in the dark.
@vanmartin (Comment 61) : I think the head chef tried to implement a his recipe by the time all his sous chefs had alreadt conjured up their own dishes….none of them knew what the final dish should look and taste like.
I think sometimes we forget the Sharks is just an average Super Rugby side, which is probably why we finish 6th on average. As such I wouldn’t dream of comparing us to the Crusaders, who only really started their poor run after their town and stadium got hit by the earthquake.
The Sharks excuse for being underachievers is more difficult to comprehend. We even lose CC finals with the team chock full of “superstars”. Bloody hell, the Reds 😯 have a Super Rugby title and we don’t.
The way things are going (assuming that past behaviour is a good predictor of future behaviour) the Lions will take the cup before us.
@Spirit of Rugby (Comment 68) : if you go read the “stats don’t lie” article on the Sharks website, you will realise that the only reason we didn’t win Super Rugby this year is because we had lots of injuries.
@robdylan (Comment 69) : We really shouldn’t forget about those untimely injuries to Bismarck, Frans and Deysel….such rotten timing 🙄
@FireTheLooser (Comment 70) : Hehehe “injuries”.
@Spirit of Rugby (Comment 71) : cannot tell you how that article irritated me. I mean, I know ostriches are also black and white….
@robdylan (Comment 64) : Hmmm. Let the speculation begin. So far Google tells me Dale McIntosh is a forwards coach that recently left his position. You’ll tell me if I’m getting warm right? 😉
@vanmartin (Comment 73) : The name Beans mean anything to anyone.
@robdylan (Comment 72) : Ja-nee swaer! We all know that, as the franchise marketing tool, they have little scope for anything remotely akin to criticism, but sometimes the articles make one want to hurl.
@The hound (Comment 74) : Not really unless it’s a nickname for Robbie Deans?
@The hound (Comment 74) : Beans Bateman?
@robdylan (Comment 11) : Yup…
@Zibbie (Comment 14) : Finding a new coach every new season hasn’t really worked for us so far…
@grant10 (Comment 26) : I love news out of Cape Town. So let me see of I get this right: Brendon Venter commutes from the Cape to consult with the Sharks and Mitchell will be commuting from KZN to consult with the Stormers. What is the world coming to? Re: Plumtree…I was pretty sure he’d turn it down. So everybody really does seem to be struggling to find that elusive coach! What is going on?!
@catfish (Comment 37) : I wouldn’t be against that suggestion…
@vanmartin (Comment 45) : Same here…
@robdylan (Comment 64) : Now that is a tease if ever I saw one! Come on!!
@Spirit of Rugby (Comment 68) : Past behaviour is almost always the best predictor for future behaviour…but please, please not that…
@robdylan (Comment 72) :
@robdylan (Comment 22) : which morne are you refering too ?
Had a closer look at the squad we’re likely to see from the 7 confirmed cc p division teams this year
some interrsting stuff I either was unaware of or some how missed at the start of the year
max van dyk is has left the griquas/cheetahs for the kings on a full time contract, tht kid is serious about his craft for making that move in a bid to max his game time
sergeal petersen was never onloan at the cheetahs from the kings as id thought all year, but instead is a full time cheetah now
bulls are playing a warm up game in japan in late july (flippin wow)
cheetahs are the only team to have updated their wikipedia page wit a official currie cup squad
torsten vanjarsveld is from namibia, and his 27 (good damn his a good player) he looks way younger
etc etc
predict a exciting cc season ahead. Going to try and watch as many game live as i can
too bad i live in cape town and wont see the sharks live this yr in the cc
unless its a semi or a final
@revolverocelot (Comment 86) : Thanks for the interesting info. Any thoughts on who you think the favourites are to make semis, make final and to be champs?
1. The Sharks and Durban have a unique culture tha has to be understood to work there. First Challenge as a coach. Jimmy might be a good coach but thre is no way he will fit into this culture.
2. A positive is the old bad blood is gone!
3. A negative is will a world class coach work for John Smit / Sharks Board after what happened over the last two years?
4. Will a world class coach work for Gary Gold who has mostly been a number 2 ?
5. Any of the great coaches are all tied up in contracts. The value of coaches in monetary terms will double in the next six months.
6. Any good coach will want to select his own coaching staff and team. Heyneke Meyer emptied the cabinet at the bulls when he took over at the Springboks.
Considering the above it will be a huge challenge for John to get a world class coach ?
5.
@pastorshark (Comment 80) : the Venter thought went through my head too! Why Stormers have not got Venter involved is a mystery to me!
I think a notible comment at this point is that all world class coaches started off as nobody at one point in their career.
Another notible point is that most “world class coaches” tend to be steriotyped and not always effective in another coaching enviroment.
Robbie deans flopped in oz. Meyer hasnt had the same dominance at the boks as he had with the bulls etc.
Gary gold is responsible fir getting the gameplan in place in the future. We need a coach for the now. My question is what coach will get the best out of the currebt squad t8dat?
Mark Andrews is endorsing Muir.
Andrews,Muir, d Preez a nice combo.
my feeling is that Dick is the man for the job, if only he can be convinced to take it on.
@robdylan (Comment 77) : Thats the one,
@robdylan (Comment 92) : Also he is the safest bet. Past record culture fit all the things that would be unknown with another coach. Stability is really more valuable than anything for the sharks currently.
@robdylan (Comment 92) : Also let him approve his team. He may not agree with horak methods for instance and should be able to make changes.
@coolfusion (Comment 94) : Agree on your last point totally,but if you look at Dicky’s record he hardly stays anywhere longer than 2 years.
We need a permanent solution and not another temporary finger in the dyke.
@robdylan (Comment 92) : With his involvement in the Investec Academy i doubt it to be honest. @robdylan (Comment 64) : And yes flippen please can we only have a minimum number of guys involved coaching. Gold- DOR, Everitt-backs and if using personnel there Anthony-forwards.
I actually wonder if duck given his involvement and connections to the natal eco system would have been a better choice for director of rugby.
The more I think & read about how difficult it is for us to get a decent head coach the more the term poisoned chalice comes to mind.. Seems like everyone is avoiding it, cant blame them really.
Gonna take a special character to take the reins and make a success of it 😉
@coolfusion (Comment 98) : no, I don’t think so.
I see Dick as very much a hands-on guy. His last stint as DoR at the Lions was a disaster
@Observer (Comment 88) : That looks like a fair summary of where we are at…
@SheldonK (Comment 97) : Is there room for a head coach in your suggestion…or would the head coach be the DOR…or one of the backs/forwards coaches?
@RedSharkUtd82 (Comment 99) : Oh dear…
@robdylan (Comment 92) : I’d be very happy with Dick at head coach. The guy lives and breathes rugby.
If I’m not mistaken he travelled to NZ and Aus after the Sharks to learn more about coaching techniques, before joining the Boks. Then director of Investec International Rugby Academy?
But yeah…. As much as I’d want him to be head coach, I seriously doubt he can be lured into the job.
@pastorshark (Comment 102) : Gold seems to want to take 1 step back from being hands on so id make Everitt the Head Coach if u want to label it as that and then Anthony will coach the forwards. Less is more as the old saying goes. Simple clear lines of communication.
@SheldonK (Comment 105) : I do think, though, that if ee go that route, part of the less is more and clear lines of communication is that somebody should be clearly given the role of head coach and the responsibilities that gobwith it…
@pastorshark (Comment 106) : Thats fair, but then dont just add someone as “Head Coach”, make one of the 2 guys the head and 1 the assistant. In Super rugby we had about 15 guys all giving direction and look how well that turned out…players looked so confused they didnt know which way to run out the tunnel.Also very easy to pass the responsibility buck when so many involved.
@robdylan (Comment 64) : By the way, if Horak is still at the Sharks, do you see a role for him in the CC? And what about Anthony?
@vanmartin (Comment 108) : Does Horak fit into the Sharkie suit? If so…well then…
@SheldonK (Comment 107) : Agreed…
Coenie Oosthuizen just been announced to join Sharks on a 4 year deal.
@SheldonK (Comment 109) :
@Rvw (Comment 111) : I was quietly expecting that!!
@SheldonK (Comment 109) : That’s one expensive mascot… 😀
@Rvw (Comment 111) : There’s the prop signing we’ve been crying out for…
@SheldonK (Comment 109) : Afraid not. The suit should go to hoffman or murray. Horak could sell naartjies maybe?
Not too shabby. Sharks can fix some of his shortcomings depending on who the forwards coach will be.
So with the signings the Sharks have made recently, there should be no reason, apart from an injury crisis, that Hoffman, Murray and Stevens should ever take to the field again
@KingRiaan (Comment 118) : We played murray ahead of sithole, hoffman ahead of Ungerer. … never say never
@Rvw (Comment 111) : Where was this announced? Pls give us a link.
@vanmartin (Comment 114) : He could double as a tackle bag so cost saving. @coolfusion (Comment 116) : Hoffman would make the skinniest shark ever…Murray would fall over too much. @Rvw (Comment 111) : oh yes i definitely see a Matt Stevens v Coenie Oosthizen pie eating contest on the cards…id buy a ticket to that
Never mind rob is on it. You’re quick.
@vanmartin (Comment 108) : I believe both will be coaching junior sides (well, not believe, I know) but have been asked not to confirm it yet.
@SheldonK (Comment 121) : Well there are a lot of candidates but only one suit.
@robdylan (Comment 123) : Thanks boss.
I see the coaching team has been announced…glad they chose from within
Probably just a temp measure to buy some time. Sure Gary is still looking to find a coach. But this should calm some nerves at least. Can’t say I’m sad to have horak out of the senior team. I don’t think he will be around too long.
Rob,
When you’re looking for top quality coaching, its never a buyers market.
@VinChainSaw (Comment 128) : ja, true enough. But just read some of the comments and crackpot theories and you’ll realise that isn’t a widely-understood fact.