StevieS

What they had to say: Sharks vs Lions, Round 3


Written by Stephen Smith (StevieS)

Posted in :Currie Cup, Original Content, Sharks on 24 Aug 2015 at 09:18
Tagged with : , , , ,

Hi Sharks fans. What a pity about the late tries to the Lions, but a much better effort from the Sharks with more enterprising backline play. Not the complete article yet, but on an upward trend although, judging from the comments on twitter below, the fans are getting impatient.

Media:

“The Sharks had led 16-10 late in the second half, but the Lions came back roaring in the final 15 minutes to take the game away from the struggling Durbanites.” – news24.com

“It was one-way traffic in the final 15 minutes as the Lions took the game by the scruff of the neck. Ross Cronje made a sniping run into the Sharks’ 22 before he handed the ball to Albertus Smith, who stood strong in a tackle and managed to offload to Nicolaas Hanekom – who grabbed the score for the visitors.” – rugby365.com

“After three rounds of the Currie Cup, the Sharks have lost two out of three but possibly more important than the results at this stage is the question of whether the rebuilding Durban team are on an upward curve. The score-line would suggest not but for most of this match there was sufficient evidence to indicate the Sharks will get exponentially better the more they play, but they know they can’t use the “rebuilding” tag for much longer… There had been so much effort and resolve from the Sharks, especially in the first half when they outplayed a Lions side tipped for the title, but effort can only get you so far and the Joburgers simply rolled with the punches and then showed their pedigree when it mattered, helped to no small degree by implosions in the Sharks’ decision-making.” – iol.co.za

“It was the Lions’ first win in Durban, at Vodacom Super Rugby or Currie Cup level, since 2007, and helped maintain their unbeaten start to this year’s Currie Cup. For the Sharks, it was a second defeat in three matches.” – sarugbymag.co.za

“The Xerox Golden Lions held off a determined challenge from the Cell C Sharks on their way to a 31-16 (halftime 7-6) win in a scrappy Absa Currie Cup Premier Division match at Growthpoint Kings Park in Durban on Saturday.” – supersport.com

Twitter:

“#CurrieCup2015 #sharksvlions ref advantage play terrible. Should send him back to ref school”

“It’s going to be a long and tough Currie Cup for the @sharksrugby #ssrugby”

“What a year for the Sharks… Waking up to another defeat, not lekker!! #CurrieCup #SharksRugby”

“We lost #sharksrugby”


64 Comments

  • Thanks Steve…

  • Comment 1, posted at 24.08.15 09:27:02 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Rugby365 got their wires crossed…they decribed Skosaan’s try! Stokkies’ try was the one off numerous phases where he just got over and the TMO had to check…

  • Comment 2, posted at 24.08.15 09:29:00 by pastorshark Reply
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  • For the most part I agree with the iol write up…but I’m going to get blasted by some for daring to say that! 😆 Oh well, I’m a big boy…I’m sure I’ll be able to handle that…

  • Comment 3, posted at 24.08.15 09:30:42 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 3) : you give me hope.

    Must say, I’m pretty negative after than last-quarter implosion. I expected better. But give me a day or two and I’ll be back on the horse.

  • Comment 4, posted at 24.08.15 09:33:34 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 4) : Hey, the disappointment was huge for me too! Those last 15 minutes…ARGH!! But I watched the game again…and the first 65 minutes were much better, especially in terms of some of the things we’ve been bitching about. Of course, now I open myself up to rants about accepting mediocrity…so be it. I remain disappointed, I remain unconvinced by Gold as head coach, I remain frustrated with the overall level of what we’re dishing up. But the improvement in some areas everyone has been critical of shows me the guys have been working on those areas and that they at least have enough skill to result in improvement. We’ll see how the next few weeks go…

  • Comment 5, posted at 24.08.15 09:44:25 by pastorshark Reply
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  • Serious question to those who rate Ungerer – what is it that makes him special? I found myself hoping time would run out before Gold decided to swap scrummies. I don’t blame the two tries, scored when he was on the field on him, so don’t think this is where this question is coming from, but his distribution and decision making is absolutely awful. I can’t think of another player with a worse pass from behind the ruck or out of a scrum than him. When he came on, there was no chance for the Sharks on attack.

    I’m all for young players getting a shot, but when a player is so clearly struggling just to get the basics up to standard, should he not be expected to get that up to scratch first?

    And surely he should not be played at the expense of other young talented players. Camaron White for example, had already left and off the little I saw of him his distribution was fast and accurate and his passes quick and clean. Why was he not given a shot when Reinach got injured during SR.

    I still haven’t seen much of Hanco Venter, but I’m hoping that he can at least pass and therefore should be elevated to the bench over Ungerer.

    Getting back to my question, is this guy really so special that we can overlook that he is unable to make a clean pass to his backline?

  • Comment 6, posted at 24.08.15 09:58:05 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 6) :

    I’m asking because a few here called for his inclusion long before I really saw him play, therefore I assume he played really well at age group level or something.

    Since playing for the Sharks, I remember him having 2 or 3 decent games (especially because he replaced Hoffman, or another who was really slow, which made Ungerer a breath of fresh air, because he got the ball out so quickly), but he has always struggled with the accuracy and speed of his pass and I tentatively mentioned this from game one, but now it’s really getting to much for me.

  • Comment 7, posted at 24.08.15 10:07:20 by Letgo Reply
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  • As someone who didn’t see the last 15 mins (therefor choose to believe it never happened 😆 ) I think we played well and our defense was much better. :mrgreen:

  • Comment 8, posted at 24.08.15 10:08:31 by Seth101 Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 6) : I was really annoyed when Jake convinced Cam Wright to leave the Sharks – have not seen such a pass on a Sharks scrummy for ages now.

  • Comment 9, posted at 24.08.15 10:08:47 by Bokhoring Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 6) : I base mine on the fact that his his distribution and decision making is better than Reinach. Hence he is better.

  • Comment 10, posted at 24.08.15 10:12:59 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 5) : Chin up, most of the haters aren’t bothering to read the entirety of your comments or they have serious comprehension problems. I haven’t read anything to suggest that you accept mediocrity.

  • Comment 11, posted at 24.08.15 10:13:47 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 5) : you manage to keep an impressively calm head.

    I really wish I hadn’t allowed those crazy 15 minutes to spoil my entire weekend, and yet somehow they did.

  • Comment 12, posted at 24.08.15 10:14:28 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 6) : I never saw much of him at age group level so this is all based on nothing more than assumption. I suspect this is a skills coaching and/or confidence problem. How on earth can a scrummy make it this far into the Sharks setup without solid basics?

  • Comment 13, posted at 24.08.15 10:17:09 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @Bokhoring (Comment 9) : I agree, he did darn well when he played for us in the CC last year. But it all comes back to the same problem at the Sharks, Player Management is their biggest down fall. they dont have a darn clue what they doing, look at all the top players who have been through the Sharks, they all start of as excellent prospects, even go on to play for the boks, but yet they all end up has beans by the time they hit 25. Whats is wrong in DBN to make these players go this way?

  • Comment 14, posted at 24.08.15 10:18:09 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 11) : I was leaning towards the “comprehension” bit…

  • Comment 15, posted at 24.08.15 10:20:07 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 12) : I think we’re all desperate for a complete performance from the Sharks. A game where the forwards properly dominate and the backs score the type of tries that got us compared to NZ teams in the past. We haven’t seen a game like that since our last successful Currie Cup campaign I reckon.

  • Comment 16, posted at 24.08.15 10:21:16 by vanmartin Reply
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  • The biggest worry is the fact that this team is the one that is most likely to be paying in the Super18 next year bar about 4 or 5 players.

  • Comment 17, posted at 24.08.15 10:24:36 by Uli Boelie Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 12) : The calm head must be because I’m so good at “imagining silver linings” and all that :mrgreen:
    Seriously, I’ve learnt a long time ago that it is only worth pouring energy into those things that you can control (although that unfortunately doesn’t stop me being very frustrated during games and shouting and using choice words!)…and the more you keep a calm head the more you are able to actually identify things that you can control so that you can pour your energy into them. I’ve also learnt that if you have identified problems that need to be fixed, people always respond better to your input if it is calm, logical, objective and coherently expressed. I don’t always manage to do that…the odd person gets under my skin…but, hey, I do try. Besides, such is life…

  • Comment 18, posted at 24.08.15 10:30:27 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 1) : My pleasure Pastor.

    Seems everyone is desperate for a complete performance from us. I want to see us ahead and winning at half-time, then keep our foot on the pedal and produce the same performance in the second-half.

  • Comment 19, posted at 24.08.15 10:32:01 by StevieS Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 18) : I don’t want to drag that whole conversation into this thread but what I will say is that was a seriously out of line comment made against you in the other thread. We should all know better than to play the man instead of the ball.

  • Comment 20, posted at 24.08.15 10:33:25 by vanmartin Reply
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  • @vanmartin (Comment 13) : He was also Baby Boks scrummie…I agree about the skills coaching bit…Letgo, you are certainly right that he has some clear issues that have to be sorted…

  • Comment 21, posted at 24.08.15 10:34:48 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 4) : Its amazing the amount of memory of a game that the final 10 minutes sometimes manages to obliterate.

    It was not all bad, far from it.

  • Comment 22, posted at 24.08.15 10:38:15 by Salmonoid the Subtle Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 21) : Ungerer was great till he injured himself scoring that try that Bieber put into his lap on the try line.
    He had just done his hammy and ran through it to score,never been the same since.
    Looks like Jake could just combine Cam Wright with Frans Steyn for the most devastating 9,10 that was never considered at the Sharks.

  • Comment 23, posted at 24.08.15 10:40:50 by The hound Reply
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  • @Uli Boelie (Comment 17) : Bar in theory: Willie, Mvovo, Lambie, Reinach, Marcell, Lewies, Coenie…they do change the picture somewhat, though, don’t they? And hopefully we can another two quality players to that mix…and a proper head coach…

  • Comment 24, posted at 24.08.15 10:41:16 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 23) : Do you think he can recover and regain some of what he has lost since?

  • Comment 25, posted at 24.08.15 10:42:17 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 22) : Agreed…

  • Comment 26, posted at 24.08.15 10:43:04 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 7) : it seems we don’t even have an eye to spot talent when it is under our nose. Cameron Wright had lots of potential. Count on Jake to see that and lure him to France. Jake could have approached any other scrumhalf at the Sharks but he didn’t. Yet our management thought Cameron was no good when some of us saw his potential the second we saw him play. This to me remains a huge concern….our inability to identify what type of players we need for the game we want to play. This to me is a major concern cause it talks to a lack of a plan or direction.Everyone here criticises Hendriks yet we procure Mjekevu and from what I have seen, Hendriks would have been a much better deal. He wanted to come to the Sharks but was not happy with our offer. Count on Gert Smal to pick him up cause he knows what he wants from a wing. The Sharks are not in good hands. Smit is clueless.

  • Comment 27, posted at 24.08.15 10:43:37 by GreatSharksays Reply

     
  • @Salmonoid the Subtle (Comment 22) : fair comment. Very fair comment.

  • Comment 28, posted at 24.08.15 10:43:57 by robdylan Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 25) : Hope so but at the moment Letgo is right the guy is way shy of the player he was.Mean while Claasens is everything a scrums should be.

  • Comment 29, posted at 24.08.15 10:45:30 by The hound Reply
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  • @The hound (Comment 29) : Sure…agreed…

  • Comment 30, posted at 24.08.15 10:51:52 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 18) : Theirin lies the key. Only get into things you can control. I learnt that too. I don’t control recruiting or anything at the Free State Rugby Union, so I can only support them and voice my opinion, but getting all stressed and dare I say depressed about it, is really pointless.

  • Comment 31, posted at 24.08.15 11:40:51 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • Sharks scrumming is a huge concern and getting a top tight head prop is a must to allow Thomas to shift back to loose head (or to the under 21’s to practice against his own age guys. If that happens a new loose head prop is also a must)!!!!
    Monde and Franna really had good games and impressed.
    Backs had little chances so can’t really comment on them.
    The less said about the last 20min the better!!!!!!!!!

  • Comment 32, posted at 24.08.15 11:44:48 by JD Reply
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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 31) : Stop being so blooming sensible! :mrgreen:

  • Comment 33, posted at 24.08.15 13:12:32 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @JD (Comment 32) : Monde and Franna were a lot better…I just still can’t shake the suspicion that some of the scrum woes lie at the doorstep of the hooker…

  • Comment 34, posted at 24.08.15 13:14:11 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @JD: ja the scrum is a big concern. Thomas was the one who said he wants to play tight head, he wants to be the best tight head the Boks have ever had. The problem is, tight head is the toughest position on the field. As the great Danie Craven once said, the first position you pick is your tight head, the next position, is your reserve tight head. Much like Kitshoff of Province, Thomas is going through a learning curve. Kitshoff has only really come right this year, and he is now one hell of a player, but he is playing loose head. I do feel Thomas will become a Bok great, but at his young age in a new position that he wants to play, he is not going to produce for the next year or two. In the backs, Mjekuvu looks a bit hapless. Other than that, I thought the Sharks,played decent for 60 minutes but need to learn how to finish a game off

  • Comment 35, posted at 24.08.15 13:16:11 by Vonno13 Reply
     
  • @KingCheetah (Comment 31) :

    So I shouldn’t be ranting about the Sharks letting Fred Zeilinga go when he’s so clearly a better prospect than anything else we have behind Lambie.

    Look one Currie Cup game does not suddenly make him world quality, but what he showed in that Man of the Match performance is what I always noticed in glimpses at the Sharks. I feel like, at the Cheetahs, he is going to be given enough game time to grow and prove that he is a quality player.

  • Comment 36, posted at 24.08.15 14:25:03 by Letgo Reply
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  • So there’s a pretty vague opinion on Ungerer, aside from The Hound that who does feel like he is a quality player struggling for form.

    I’m just wondering if we’re not putting too much time into one scrummy, when we still have a few young guys waiting for an opportunity. I don’t want to harp on about the Ungerer situation, because it seems like the Sharks have done this in more than one position … SP last year, should have been dropped by game 3 and another players should have been given a shot (Mvovo at 15 and another wing, or another 15).

    Btw, I thought SP had a good 20 minutes (aside from the one kick he put directly into touch. AGAIN! 🙄 )

  • Comment 37, posted at 24.08.15 14:28:37 by Letgo Reply
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  • Anyway, … we should have a guess the Sprinbok Squad and Name Your Springbok Squad thread, leading up to the Squad announcement on Friday!

  • Comment 38, posted at 24.08.15 14:31:18 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 37) : Just for interest sakes: Who are the young guys you are thinking of who are queuing behind Ungerer? Cameron Wright is gone, Hanco Venter is at the Leopards (unless we have some sort of clause for getting him back on short notice?)…who else is there? Are you think one of the u21’s?

  • Comment 39, posted at 24.08.15 15:12:14 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 39) : Correct…the cupboard is not full…and thats for all positions

  • Comment 40, posted at 24.08.15 15:32:24 by SheldonK Reply

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  • So Gold is happy with the “character and fight” shown by the Sharks and feels “luck” was against us.

    Honestly this guy has no clue. He harps on about “character” every time. Character is required by clueless losers who have nothing else to fall back on. You dig deep into “character” when the odds are against you. Do we want to be that team who always need to show character just because the coach demands it by virtue of his incompetence?

    And luck? Good teams don’t need luck and certainly don’t ascribe losses to bad luck.

    Gold has run out of excuses. If he gets me this exasperated imagine his effect on the players.

    My gripe is simply that this guy is not Sharks quality. I have a serious issue with Smit for bringing him in.

  • Comment 41, posted at 24.08.15 15:36:23 by Orlok Tsubodai Reply

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  • @pastorshark (Comment 39) : Hanco Venter is back. Rowan Gouws also has plenty potential

  • Comment 42, posted at 24.08.15 16:15:08 by robdylan Reply
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  • @Orlok Tsubodai (Comment 41) : I think the concept “Sharks quality” is facing a major correction at the moment.

  • Comment 43, posted at 24.08.15 16:19:35 by robdylan Reply
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  • @robdylan (Comment 42) : Ah, ok…Gouws definitely has potential, but I’m happy with him staying at the u21’s for this season. I haven’t seen too much of Hanco Venter, so I can’t say too much about a comparison between him and Ungerer…

  • Comment 44, posted at 24.08.15 16:20:07 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 37) : Please I give you credit for singling out Ungerer, battle to regain form ,but don’t start me on SP again,he put in one decent kick,but the amount of work Odwa had to do on that kick made it Odie’s try in my book.
    Please go back and watch SP’s defence on each of the Lion’s trys while he was on the field.He also got the ball in plenty space and kicked it straight back to the opposition,resulting in a try.The intercept was his fault as well with the line he ran.
    He is seriously second rate and thank the heavens we have Joe and are getting Willie,so lets stop wasting time on this guy.

  • Comment 45, posted at 24.08.15 16:28:51 by The hound Reply
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  • Al die fans wil graag he die Sharks moet goed speel en wen MAAR wees nou maar eerlik van Mnr.John Smit oorgeneem het, het niks reggeloop soos ons dit ken nie. Al sy aanstellings was/is ‘n flop en die feit dat sy persoonlike verskille met Plum hom een van sy slegste foute laat maak het is onvergeeflik. Hy en al sy pelle en ou onderwysers moet gaan. John was ‘n rugbyspeler maar hierdie pos is regtig nie vir hom nie – hy maak net droog. Gaan asb weg.

  • Comment 46, posted at 24.08.15 16:31:32 by Leon Schrenk Reply

     
  • @The hound (Comment 45) :

    I’m actually saying that I feel Ungerer is in the same position as SP at this stage. Maybe harsh, but it’s the way I feel. Especially since I haven’t seen anything special from him since he’s first Super Rugby cap back in 2014. I don’t specifically rate him. I did rate SP at the Kings, I’m done giving him chances at the Sharks.

    Also, I would rather blame Ungerer for that intercept than I would SP. His pass, yet again, was over Joe’s right shoulder. Thus, he could not make the pass (in clearly a planned move) as quick as he wanted to.

    I would be happy for Ungerer to prove me wrong, but I’m done with tiptoeing around his poor performances.

  • Comment 47, posted at 24.08.15 16:39:21 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Leon Schrenk (Comment 46) : Meskien moet jy jou sin net so bietjie vernader…meskien “het AMPER niks reggeloop…nie” Ons het daarom ‘n Currie Beker in 2013 gewen. Daardie tyd was almal baie gelukkig met John en die feit dat hy Brendan Venter ingebring het…

  • Comment 48, posted at 24.08.15 16:46:23 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 39) :

    I was thinking Hanco Venter. I’ve also not seen much of him, but since Ungerer is so bad, I would take anyone else at this stage. Especially because Hanco is also a young player and what kind of message does it send our young players, when the player above them in the pecking order can hardly make one decent pass in a match and are struggling with the basics of the position and they are continually overlooked.

    If Hanco wasn’t there, then another from age group should be given a shot. Even if it’s just for one game, giving Ungerer the chance to work on the basic skills he is struggling with.

    Furthermore, it’s game three… he had the same bad passing problems during Super Rugby, when are we going to admit that this is one player we might just have to cut loose and look outside of the system for a better option.

    For me this has been coming for a while now. I’ve commented on his poor passing display during Super Rugby and tried to put a positive spin on it (he’s a young player, has potential just needs to work on the basics, still quick to the ruck), then starting this year, I said I feel he should get 3 games to show he’s worked on the basics and can make a good pass. I just haven’t seen enough good from him to feel those 3 games should be extended – regardless of who will replace him. Harsh, I know, but I’m not having a good enough Monday to give him slack.

  • Comment 49, posted at 24.08.15 16:50:19 by Letgo Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 48) :

    Wat nog te se daarvan dat niemand teen sy besluit was om Plum te laat gaan nie. Almal het gevoel dit was die moeilike besluit wat geneem moes word.

  • Comment 50, posted at 24.08.15 16:51:33 by Letgo Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 49) : :mrgreen: Tough Mondays will do that. I didn’t know Hanco was back…maybe he could have a go. Although I am not in favour discarding Ungerer quite so quickly. I liked much of what I saw from him in Super Rugby…

  • Comment 51, posted at 24.08.15 16:56:55 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 50) : Ja…

  • Comment 52, posted at 24.08.15 17:00:02 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @Letgo (Comment 49) : In other good news, I see that Cameron Wright scored a try in his first game for Montpellier. Jake White’s side made an impressive start to the season there with a big win. I also didn’t know that Craig Burden had moved there. I wonder why he’s gone there to be behind Bismarck in the queue again?! Maybe he’ll be unhappy about that and accept an offer from the Sharks for Super Rugby…

  • Comment 53, posted at 24.08.15 17:15:12 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 33) : 👿 Lol, I don’t always get it right mind.

  • Comment 54, posted at 24.08.15 17:29:07 by KingCheetah Reply

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  • @KingCheetah (Comment 54) : You and me both…

  • Comment 55, posted at 24.08.15 17:59:37 by pastorshark Reply
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  • I don’t know where to from here. Claasens should start that’s for sure but should we be so quick to shut Ungerer out? We have done that so many times in the past and regretted it later. We should show some loyalty and patience for a change. It’s not like he is what is holding is back. We have fundamental issues once we have that sorted we can measure him again.

  • Comment 56, posted at 24.08.15 18:41:13 by coolfusion Reply

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  • @coolfusion (Comment 56) : I’m inclined to agree…

  • Comment 57, posted at 24.08.15 18:47:05 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 53) : Wow, really? Burden…

  • Comment 58, posted at 24.08.15 18:58:21 by Ben Reply
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  • @Ben (Comment 58) : Yup…here’s the article…
    http://www.sarugbymag.co.za/blog/details/Wright-strikes-on-Montpellier-debut
    Burden part of an all South African front row for Montpellier…did anyone else know about this?

  • Comment 59, posted at 24.08.15 19:01:47 by pastorshark Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 59) : Thanks.

  • Comment 60, posted at 24.08.15 19:05:56 by Ben Reply
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  • @coolfusion (Comment 56) : I say, at least give Hanco a start. See what he can do. And give Ungerer some time to … think.

  • Comment 61, posted at 25.08.15 06:18:29 by Letgo Reply
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  • @pastorshark (Comment 24) : @Uli Boelie (Comment 17) : Oh ja, and Jacques Potgieter is also coming…that makes it 8 additional players. If we do find another player or two in the areas we’ve been commenting about, that makes it almost an entire team that is added to our current Currie cup squad for Super Rugby…

  • Comment 62, posted at 25.08.15 06:49:09 by pastorshark Reply
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    pastorshark
     
  • @Vonno13 (Comment 35) : if Thomas wants to play tight head I think he should adapt and learn it whilst playing for the under 21’s.
    Fact is Sharks needs a top tight head before next years Super rugby and I can’t see Thomas being ready to do it next year.

  • Comment 63, posted at 25.08.15 08:19:32 by JD Reply
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    JD
     
  • @pastorshark (Comment 53) : is a bit strange for me that Burden moved to a club were he will once again be behind Bismarck but then again money talks.

  • Comment 64, posted at 25.08.15 08:25:57 by JD Reply
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